 The 1999 Nigerian Constitution is a glorified death certificate, says Pastor Tunde Bakery. And active citizenship and youth involvement in Nigeria's development. How ready is the Nigerian youth for leadership? This is PlusPolitics. I'm Mary Angle. The serving overseer, the Citadel Global Community Church, Pastor Tunde Bakery, has called for a change of guard in the country, and those around President Mohammad Bahari looked at it. Bakery said this at the State of the Nation broadcast on Sunday, outing that it is time to rescue Nigeria from opportunists in government. He also stated that the 1999 Constitution as a glorified death certificate, saying that it should be replaced for the country if it wants to achieve greatness. Well, joining us to discuss this is Gideo Logan, he's a legal practitioner, and Bola Oba, who is a political analyst. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you very much. All right. I'm sure that you have gone over the statement and the press release by Pastor Tunde Bakery, who was at the time a running mate of Mr. President. But he's also been waxing very lyrical lately. He's been criticising the President and, of course, the Bahari-led administration as a whole. Now, let's start with the first thing that he mentioned. Again, a lot of people who obviously are on the President's side or people who are supporters of Mr. President will say that this is another job, just another political job, by someone who wants to try to float a political party or someone who has interest in running for the office of the President. But he has called for handlers of sorts. He's saying that there has to be a change of God. And he called Mr. President's handlers tired. And he says it's time to rescue the country from opportunities. From opportunities, I beg your pardon. Who do you think these opportunities are that he was making reference to? I'll start with you, Mr. Oba. Who do you think he was referring to? He's referring to... I would want to presume, because I don't know is that I'm not omissioned and I'm not in the same business as he is. I'm not a seer, but I want to believe that he's referring to the political job as around the President. Those who have made the President to be so recalcitrant in acknowledging some of the recommendations of the last political confagulation. Those who have the heirs of the President and have made him in the six years of his two-term tenor, in the six years the gospel has spent, have made him to seem impoverished to all the imperatives for change that have thus far been designed, acknowledged, and by any sensible person to have been deemed necessary to reform this country in the direction of progress. I guess it must be referring to those people. But I think it's a big kinder, because, ordinarily, I'm more than convinced that irrespective of the advice that any principal officer gets, it is incumbent on that principal officer to define the integrity and the stature of the office that God has divinely placed in me, my tape. Well, he goes ahead to talk about the change of God, which I mentioned at the beginning, and a need for fresh hands and fresh insights into how to fix the people and the nation in itself. Is that really what the country needs at this point in time? Do we need fresh hands and fresh insights, as opposed to the systemic corruption that we're facing today, the fact that we, the people, seem to also be aiding and abating whatever is happening to us, except you probably do not agree with me. To understand, I don't necessarily want to agree fully with him, but to understand, whatever constitution we may write, whatever form of government we may decide to resort to, have a political class, have a political class whose members, unfortunately, have their DNA negatively tweaked, political class. Members of this political class will work any constitutional ground. Members of this political class sold their souls to greed and voracious accumulation. So I'm sitting there thinking, you know what, we can write the constitution as much as we want, but if the politicals that we have now and those who want the constitution, they will always find a way of bastardizing it. You'd be shocked if one goes into itemizing some of the laws we have in this direction that have been made so functionally, so functionally useless because of the ingenuity of the Nigerian political class as making any form of legislation or any form of rule nonsensical when it comes to pervading it. That's the little I can say about that. Let me come to you Mr. Logo. Just picking up from where Mr. Alba stopped, if this seems to be, I'm assuming if you agree with him, if you think that we cannot necessarily change the constitution to change the system because he's saying that these political politicians are somewhat the problem and they always find a way around it. So how do we change the Nigeria to the Nigeria that we want? How do we go about it? Because when you refer to the political class, you're talking about everybody, you're talking about the executive, you're talking about the legislators and these are the people who are supposedly tasked with the responsibility of making the laws that would one way or the other, supposedly change the Nigeria to the Nigeria that we want. So how do we go about it? I must start by commanding the very brilliant submissions of Mr. Aguilaba and I aligned my views with his. You know, it's like when you get a very beautiful business plan that is crafted in Spanish language and you hand it over to someone who only understands French language, you're going away with that plan, no matter how beautiful it is. And I think that is what where we have found ourselves in Nigeria now and I will explain that further. It has to do with the mindset of those who have been saddled with implementing the constitution. As a matter of personal opinion, the condition we have is also bad. Perhaps what Pastor Tony Bakari was trying to reflect is the fact that let's change how this country is governed. I've said it, if you take the time to study section 14 to section 18 of the Nigerian Constitution 1999 as a mandate, you'll find very beautiful provisions in that part of the constitution. And of course, if those provisions have been implemented up to 60%, then Nigeria should be the third richest country in the world right now. We have found ourselves in a situation where those who are given the assignment of managing this country are running contrary to the wonderful provisions of the constitution. And that is where I agree with Pastor Tony Bakari that there is a need for change of God, which means that those who are around the president are either tired or confused or they have lost the vision of national development. And if that is the case, why don't you bring in those who we have the mindset of development in line with the sustainable goals of the United Nations that will be benchmarked and evaluated in Year 2030. And having said that, I also agree with Mr. Bakari that those around the president look up to him. The study is about the language. If the president has a vision of developing this country, he's been there now for six years. I believe that he would have done everything to reflect that positive change. I mean, I should be disturbed as a leader if when I came to office, my country was indebted to the tune of 3.12 trillion Naira, talking about March 2015. And these are on record, please. And today, Year 2021, my country is owing above 33 trillion Naira. I should be disturbed that even though my minister of information and culture has repeatedly bombarded the people about investment in massive infrastructure, massive infrastructure. And just this week, a report came out that NNPC is trying to intervene in restructuring some roads in the country that are making it difficult to circulate fuel within the country. So where is the massive infrastructure we have spent so much on? I should be disturbed as a leader that in one week, and this report is on record, over 45 human beings were reportedly killed. In one week, one week of seven days, I should be disturbed that soldiers are killed in their numbers. 25 militia base taking over, bandits bringing down fighter jets, different kinds of kidnappings and things around the country, which, of course, is provided for in section 14, subsection 12 of Nigerian conditions in 1999 as a mandate that says that the security and the welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. I'm yet to confirm, but I hear that a bag of beans is over 85,000 Naira now. And I know that if food inflation is around 22% right now, the unemployment rate in Nigeria is above 37%. So you can go on and on and on. NNPC has threatened zero remittance to the federal account. So it's like, in fact, right now, we are going, we are projecting a 20-20 to a budget that will be a deficit budget. So all this should make you as a leader to either look inwards and ask yourself a simple question, am I effective? And look around you. If the people you have called to support you are the ones that are not effective, then you do something about it. But in a case where we see a president who's patting himself on the back, who's saying that he's, I mean, we listened, I'm sure you did listen to that budget's presentation in front of the Joint National Assembly, it seemed more like a pat on the back or a scorecard of sorts. Not seeing it, necessarily seeing any wrong in what's happening, acknowledging some and not acknowledging the others. And that's not our conversation today. But in the absence of the president in your words, recognizing and looking within, again, 2023 beckons were seeing names thrown into the air, were seeing conversations around people who may or may not succeed the president. But the teething problems, the elephants in the room is that we are fighting corruption, a corruption that the president and his administration promised to deal with is still the biggest elephant in the room. We're still dealing with disobedience of court orders and lack of any regards for the rule of law. We're seeing that protesters can no longer protest freely without them being shot at. And those who are being shot at cannot get justice. We're seeing a long list of these things happening. And I go back to the question that I asked earlier on, if we cannot rely on the people who we gave the mandate to write the kind of laws that would help us, people who are supposed to represent us, what do we do then? This question has been answered but not satisfied. I think we're having connection problems with you, Mr. Logan. So I'm going to switch back to Bola. I've heard from the government. Is that you wait for the year? Go ahead. Okay. We've constantly been told by the government that we have to wait for the election years if we are not satisfied with the performance. And that is very dangerous. So that means if you are driving me in the wrong direction and we have to pass through bus stops, I must wait until we get to the destination whether successfully or otherwise. And like you have expressed also, it has become very dangerous under a democracy to protest. We call it emotional ventilation in HR. So people are not allowed to express their pains. You see the expression of inequity in the land, injustice in the land. Bandits have been pampered and some agitators have been harmed. It's quite obvious. But in answering your question, what we are told is that we have to wait until 2023. But what happens if by 2023 or before 2023? This country is going 50 trillion naira. Where is the future we are talking about? What happens if like it was reported in one of the states in the north, I think in Niger state, that the bandits have taken over about 18 walls in Niger state. Then where do we turn? What happens if the threats that came up when we had these Bukoharan people, Islamist states of West Africa, who said they applied in Niger state. I know how close Niger state is to Asobila. We have quickly retorted that what happened in Afghanistan cannot happen in Nigeria. But I have done a personal study and research and discovered that what Muhammad used to start in Nigeria in around 2000 and 2002 is in line with the template of Muhammad Oman, who started that for the Taliban in Afghanistan. So where do we go? Look at the economy. Look at everything. So where do we go from there? Are we now going to say that after Titanic sank, what next? And that is why we are calling on well-being Nigerians now to rise up. You see, Henry Ford, who lived between 1863 and 1947, said, coming together is a beginning. Staying together is progress. Working together is success. And we claim to be working together in Nigeria now. Look at the southern governors and the northern governors. We do not agree about everything. We are back to what happened in 1953, May 1953, when we were going to have our independence from the colonial masters, the killings in Kano because we did not agree on that venture. And today we are here to synchronize and be a united nation to focus on development. So where do we go? OK, great question. But let me go to Bola Opa. Mr. Opa, I keep hearing that. And this is a recurring statement in Pastor Bakare's message to Nigerians in his State of the Nation message. I keep hearing that we need competent Nigerians. Nigerians were able to lift us out of the corruption, the endemic corruption that we're facing that would give us a change of scenery. So the question that keeps coming to mind every time I hear anybody say this, whether it be a politician or not, are we really in short supply of people who are capable of doing right or leading us as the Constitution dictates and fighting corruption? Or is it that the system just keeps throwing up the same source of people and the door is shot on the faces of the people who are really there to serve? One of these two fables, one of these failures, of liberal democracy, especially liberal democracies that are powered with money, big money, one of the failures defined in the United States, be it in our kingdom, be it even in some reasonable places where you still have a relative degree, a modicum of relative decency in how they dramatize the liberal democracies. Say like Germany, one of the major fables, especially in liberal democracies where money becomes a major agent, actualizing political aspirations is what you get in Nigeria, people who have the money, not necessarily because they are value creators, not necessarily because they are competent, not necessarily because they can turn situations around. But because they have the money to leverage, to abuse the systemic techniques, the democratic system, the man who told us even the person who told us that he could not buy his form, he was adopted by a political article, a political configuration which was an amalgam of some legacy parties with deep pocketed characters and where they adopted him, ultimately, not only paid for his form, but also supposedly financed his campaigns. We are where we are without two. So I'm sitting there thinking that your question is a question that can be best answered if one observes the integrity of democracies, liberal democracies across the world from America that ultimately fill up a character like Trump to unite the kingdom we are a comical character, so Boris Johnson is literally driving an historically successful nation almost into their beans as we speak. You can imagine when there is riot or when they are accused in petrol for cuts in England. So I'm sitting there, I'm sitting out thinking, so we are choosing that in itself in the age of information information suffocation is literally being dragged to a form of systemic nonsensicalness. So are you saying, are you accepting that we play a role in this? We're part of the problem. Because you see whether it's a Boris Johnson or Donald Trump, that's a totally different case, but of course. But in Nigeria, we seem to be going around in the same circles and we still point fingers at the politicians but what is our role in creating the monster of money politics that you have rightly described? I have not won two planes, a lady that has been raped for wearing a particular dress or for making herself to be susceptible to the violence of the rapists. When I hear people wanting to blame the Nigerian and electorate, I shake my head. People who have been systematically cast into poverty people who literally literally have to combat with subsistence on a daily basis. Even eating. And somebody without the temerity wanting to do analysis blaming the victim for the conduct of for the conduct of the users. I cannot do political analysis like that. Look, this is a country where and I'm talking to somebody who does it on a daily basis. If you incentivize an African Nigerian you will be shocked the level of brilliance, the level of creativity, the level of productivity that we see on the table. But when all the systemic incentives that we've seen in other policies and other societies have been withdrawn on the table and these people have been reduced to the basic animalistic state of existence somebody is telling me that was to blame them. Okay. Alright, finally Mr. Lagoon I'm going to let you put the cap on this one. So we're talking about all the problems. Let's talk about solutions the way forward. Pastor Bakare has said that we have a single assignment and it is to send them packing them in this regard the politicians who are in the words of driving us into the abyss and burying that phrase. So what's the way forward? How do we get out of this mess? Because now he's saying we can't victim blame we need to call a spade a spade the politicians are our problem but we the people, how ready are we for 2023 because there has to be some form of engagement the average Nigerian is hungry he's telling you that the cost of living is rising high his spending power has not increased the same salary and still has to buy his gas cylinder for about 6,000 or 7,500 why should he bother about any politicians so what do we do? What I have seen here is the desecration of trust the electorates have chosen to vote some people into office and he turned around to punish the people who brought them into office if these human beings are powerless against them, God will rise against them look at what happened in Rwanda, eventually God made way for Ipoh Kagami that has translated the narratives in Rwanda Rwanda is one of the fastest growing economies in Africa right now look at what happened in Tanzania, so it's not going to end here some people rose up to agitate for the dependence on the Nigerian colonial masters the implications are on now whether people are being killed or not, when you kill 200 million Nigerians the answer is no so when you have the opportunity to manage resources you either excel or you fail and from all indications this regime appears to be failing but there is always an opportunity to make a U turn and go back to the constitution the security and the welfare of the people you made three major promises in 2015 to fight corruption, to fix the economy and of course to fight the insecurity that is in the country but what report do we have in the bourgeoisie now we have gone worse in all these major areas so it's either you hide your head in shame or wait for God to bring about the change that the people decide because God means well for the people and that's why the likes of us have decided not to keep quiet and we agree with the fact that somewhere along the line the song will rise and there will be light at the end of the tunnel can you imagine and let me end with this the Nigeria has the largest deposit of proven gas in Africa it's now threatening the people that the price of gas may be increased by 100% we don't have electricity we are constructing a wayline to Nigeria Republic we are planning to set up filling stations in Nigeria Republic so what offence have Nigerians committed that has made them to be subjected to this level of hardship but then we may be helpless we are not hopeless if you pray and talk that there should be an intervention to put this country back on the path of prosperity I want to thank you very much Malaba is a political analyst and Jido Logan is a legal practitioner thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a quick break and when we return as 2023 approaches we will be discussing use and of course if they are adequately prepared for political leadership to stay with us