 Welcome to Saul Cast, where we're talking about Season 5, Episode 4 of Better Call Saul titled Namaste. This is our instant take. We just watched the episode, so these will be our raw immediate reactions to having seen it, but make sure to check back later in the week where we'll have our full recap and analysis. By the way, if you're listening to this as a podcast, check out the link in the show notes where you can watch this as a YouTube video on our channel One Take. And if you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe to the podcast to get that full recap later in the week. Without further ado, let's jump into tonight's episode. I'm Gill, I'm here with my brothers Alun, Yo, and Adam. Hello. Let's get into it. So a few things to talk about tonight's episode. Let's start with the character we ended on, Mike. He went looking for trouble. Again, found those same hoodlums and got himself beat up and stabbed. So what is he doing here? Why was he looking to get into another fight? And where do you think he is at the end there? Are they hoodlums or are they punks? Because I wrote punks in my notes. You called them hoodlums last time. That's why I used the word hoodlum. I got that from you. I had a change of heart. Last time with Gill. Are you sure you should call them punks? I think they might be hoodlums. It's complicated. But what's even more, what's less complicated are the reasons that he even went there. I think without even being trusted to have the responsibility of watching over Kaylee babysitting her, he's got nothing left. He's depressed for him. It felt good to get in that altercation last time. So he just kind of went out looking for trouble because he didn't know what else to do. Also, if it's anything like last time, he's been drinking a lot and so probably not making the best decisions. He might have seen a picture of the Sydney Opera House. Yeah, had set him off. Well, when he was told that he wasn't babysitting that night and he walked away, I literally wrote down in my notes, Mike looks like he's looking for trouble. He had a look on his face that said he wants to hit somebody. Yeah, in addition to all of that, it's possible he also feels he deserves that. Maybe he felt like he hasn't been punished for the wrongdoings he's committed. Maybe this was a way of feeling like he is getting what he deserves. That was one of my questions. Do you think he went into that fight hoping to win, hoping to lose, or did he just generally not care? I think he didn't care. Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, I think he wanted to take out some frustration, but I think he also did kind of want to get beat up a little bit himself. And then afterwards, he wakes up in a hospital of some kind, not exactly a hospital, I guess, but it's almost like a farm of some sort out in the desert. Who do you think rescued him? Was he rescued? How did he end up there? I have one theory, and that's, I think, given how thorough Gus is, there's a good chance that Mike is under surveillance most of the time. And Gus also seems to like Mike and see him as an asset. I'm not backing this theory 100%, but there's a chance that one of Gus's people saw this happen and took him somewhere to convalesce. Yeah, my first thought was maybe they stabbed him, one of the hoodlums or punks realized that he was dying, and they thought, we don't want to get involved in a murder right now, so let's take this guy back to my place and care for his wounds. Then I realized, that doesn't seem very likely. My next thought is exactly what you said, is that Gus is monitoring him, saw that he was being threatened, and not Gus himself, but one of Gus's people stepped in and saved Mike. But that leads to a question of, how much is Gus going to put up with? We know he's going to continue to work with Mike, but he already had the Werner screw up, and now he appears to be borderline suicidal, putting himself into this compromising dangerous position. It'll be interesting to see if Gus really is the one who intervened, how we go from this to Gus saying, yeah, I want to keep working with this unpredictable guy who keeps going out looking for danger. All right, I was going to say, if Gus was involved in this, it could be, you know, Gus still wants to work with him, and maybe he will be offering Mike a purpose. Mike clearly needs something in his life to change at this point. And this is very similar, if Gus is involved in this, it's very similar to what happened, I think in season four of Breaking Bad, when, and Mike was involved in this, he basically, Jesse was downtrodden, and Mike kind of helped Jesse get a spirit back by, I think actually might have been the first half of season five, I can't remember anymore. But he had like these two guys corner them in an alley or something like that, and Jesse basically helped them escape, and it turned out to be kind of staged, but it was a way of getting Jesse to feel more confident, and Gus was kind of part of that planning. Do you guys remember that? Vaguely, vaguely, but another example I remember, and I think that this is, I think you're spot on that Gus is going to use this to his advantage as a way of not exactly manipulating Mike, but using what he's seeing in Mike's behavior to guide him to what Gus wants. And we saw similar behavior when Gus appealed to Walt, and Walt's desire to be a man and support his family. So we've seen in the past Gus finding someone who needs a purpose, and giving them a purpose. That happens to align with exactly what Gus wants. Yeah, Gus, despite his abnormal psychology, he understands the psychology of others. That's right. So speaking of abnormal psychology, we saw Jimmy throw some bowling balls, and he was trying to hit Howard, right? Howard sleeps in a hammock in his driveway. That was before we started recording when I couldn't stop laughing, and you asked me why? I had just thought of that line. That's why I was laughing. And also, I'm going to keep calling him Jimmy, because he did say that he lets his friends call him Jimmy, Sol's just his professional name. Yeah, but then he said, you can call me that too. So it could be in addition to friends. Oh, I didn't catch that. I thought that was an intentional kind of, I thought he was just, it was an intentional kind of poke at him. It could go either way. He could be including him, maybe. I mean, well, considering the next time we see him, he's throwing bowling balls at his car, I think Adam's right on this one. Just a prank amongst friends. Well, so in all seriousness, what is he doing here? To me, this felt like old Jimmy, just super childish, and just lashing out. Adam, what do you think's going through Jimmy's head in that scene? They made a point of showing us his whole process of, he was shopping at an antique store for heavy object. He was practicing, kind of tossing them to see. This looked so premeditated. And also he was planning to do it before they even had the lunch. So this wasn't going to be fair. Actually, to be clear, I don't know that we know that. I mean, Breaking Bad has at times shown us. Yeah, we don't know the timing. I suspect that this scene, what my interpretation is that this scene took place later on. And they were just showing us a glimpse of what's ahead. Could be wrong though. Yeah, it's possible. Well, whether it was a reaction to that or it was even more premeditated, in either case, it was still premeditated. It wasn't just an impulsive thing. And I think there's a chance it's just Jimmy doing his usual childish petty things. But he's so clever that maybe there's something more to it. I don't know. It could be both. It could be something childish, but there's just a longer scheme here than just destroying Howard's car. Yeah. Oh, what do you think? Childish prank? Or is there some bigger game here? I think he's going to try to be Howard's lawyer. What? I don't know. I have no idea what he's planning. I'm sure it's more than just getting even with him or something. He's definitely got some bigger plan. I have no clue what he's planning, though. Yeah. I've always been pretty sympathetic toward Howard. I think he's been between Chuck and Jimmy. He was put in a difficult position much of the time. And I think he always treated Jimmy pretty fairly considering he didn't have to. And I never really thought he was he was like a douche until I saw his license plate. Yeah. Did you take that as he's essentially had some kind of religious awakening or found some sort of peace with all the guilt he's been harboring? I got more of like a vibe of like a yoga bro. Well, I think that's sort of what I'm saying. I mean, he also gave Jimmy a very long hug. So I see him as he's been struggling with this guilt and he's in this peaceful, compassionate state of mind. And he's trying to be he's trying to amend his wrong doings. He's reaching out to Jimmy, offering him this job. And I think that Namaste was an over the top way of saying of basically saying exactly that. So at first, I thought that he was just kind of trying to alleviate his own guilt by extending an olive branch to Jimmy. But at the end, when he said, you're smart, you're scrappy, you're a go getter. Now, it could have been him putting on an act, but his face and his tone really sold it to me that I think he actually does want a little the more success Saul has and the more clever things he does, the more people want him. So now the cartel wants him. Kim at the end of the episode wants him for something and she's come to him before for for some craftiness. And now Howard wants a piece. Mm hmm. No, I think that's right. I think both things are sort of true. Man, part of it is that Howard has I mean, am I wrong in saying that he's always seen Jimmy as somebody with skill? Part of the reason he always held back was specifically at Chuck's request. I think since then, he has seen even more capability from Jimmy. So he genuinely wants him to work for him. But I think there he's definitely coming to him with his tail between his legs with a very apologetic tone. But I don't think he's offering the job purely out of guilt. Agreed. I think the actor for Howard, who his name escapes me, did a great job, especially at the end of that scene. Yeah, he's always done such a great job. I mean, we've praised him so many times for managing to be somebody we see as a villain, then becomes this sympathetic character. It's a super, it's super interesting character. One more thing on that topic, just the fact that Jimmy throws those bowling balls at Howard's car and whether or not there's a bigger scheme at play here, I do think it tells us that Jimmy is still harboring some resentment towards Howard and Chuck. I think in the previous episode where Jimmy had his run in with Howard and we saw that he basically barely acknowledged him and then walked away, we thought it's in the past. He really doesn't care anymore. This seems to have brought something back to the forefront and it couldn't have been buried that deep if it was so easy to bring it back up to the surface. So I think this is kind of the first crack in the facade that we think Jimmy's got this hardened shell. He doesn't care about Howard. He's moved on. Maybe he hasn't really moved on entirely. Yeah, that would not surprise me. So I'll say in this episode, I think I hated Gus more than I've ever hated him before because the way he treated poor Lyle, making him clean that fryer over and over again. I was waiting to see him stick that kid's like head in the fryer. I think Gus, we've talked about him being crazy before and having psychological issues, but aside from everything else we've seen already, he's got an obsessive disorder of some kind. Yeah, I think so. And I think there's something that triggers it. And at first, I thought he was nervous. He's nervously waiting for the phone to ring. But do you think? Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's also what I thought. And I was debating is it nervousness or is it anger where he's very confident his plan will work, but he's angry that he's been forced into this position. But I do think it's nervousness. I mean, it's the classic you're waiting for a phone call and it's pro tip, by the way. And I think of one, you'll agree with me on this. This is the equivalent of when a guy or a gal texts somebody and they're waiting for the reply back. You can't just sit there and stare at the phone. You've got to busy yourself. Like Gus had the right idea. He should go and clean something or do something, but he shouldn't have Lyle do it. He should do it. You'd walk away and get your mind off it. Poor Lyle. Exactly. You know, honestly, poor Lyle. And so I will say we last episode, Gus was kind of backed into a wall. And our question was, how is it going to get out of this? We know the DEA is going to check out these dead drops. And Gus's people are going to be there. So how does he not alert them that he knows the word got out so that Nacho gets in trouble? So it turns out he let a few arrests happen. He let close to a million dollars get seized. My one question is that that guy at the end or the third guy that Hank and Steve Gomez had to chase, it seemed to me that he was seen on purpose and he wanted that chase to happen. It's unclear to me why that had to happen considering they did get a few arrests already and they were able to seize all that money. Yeah, it's a good question. I'm not sure why given so at first I didn't you know, we didn't know there were any other arrests. And so I thought this was a way to make it look like a close call that it wasn't a stage to drop. Right. Yeah, that's what I thought. Given that given that there were other arrests, it makes me less certain. Yeah, we'll have to see on the rewatch if if there's anything we missed in this first viewing. But yeah, when I first saw it happen, I was like, Oh, that was his plan was just to do the drop, but then have the guy run away. And then immediately afterwards you realize that happened. Yes. But there were actual arrests. They did seize some money. And by the way, how awesome was it where Hank is obviously disappointed, but he's able to turn it on for his team and give that speech. We're all going to O'Brien's made me really want to work for Hank. He's a good leader. He is. And the more we see him here, the more it's so depressing knowing where he ends up. And yeah, yeah, it just it sucks. Yeah, it does. And Kim goes to the courtroom sees Jimmy's antics. And as always, whenever Kim sees Jimmy do some of his scummy lawyer stuff, I always wonder what her reaction is going to be. It's either going to be her admonishing him or her loving it and wanted to get involved. I think the writers know that we're going to be wondering that because immediately after Jimmy does his switcheroo, we see Kim for a second, but then there's a good 30 seconds where the camera is behind her head. And I keep wanting it to pan around. I want to see the expression on her face, see what's going through her head. And then when Jimmy comes back from the chambers, she says she wants his help with the whole Mr. Acker situation. So as we've seen time and time again, Kim gives Jimmy a hard time. But when she needs Saul Goodman, she goes to him anyway. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. There's a lot of Jimmy doing stuff where I wonder what his plan is. So again, here where Kim sends him to Mr. Acker and gets himself hired as his lawyer. What is the plan here? This could really go in any direction. I can't see Saul really screwing him over that badly, given we talked about it last episode. He tends to feel loyal toward his clients. But maybe he's going to, I don't know, maybe he's going to try to get him to basically agree to leave for more money. That sounds way too simple. I don't know. That's not really a scheme. Have Kim's colleagues at Mesa Verde met Saul yet? I can't remember. I don't know. I don't know at that party. Was that through Mesa Verde? I think it was. I think that Kim's boss, the lawyer knows Saul. I don't know if the Mesa Verde folks do. Okay. Don't you remember they were at that party and he started joking about how they should all go on a ski trip? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Well, I was just wondering if maybe they could just pretend they're not associated with each other. I mean, I think she would like for Mr. Acker to get to keep his property and for Mesa Verde to go to that other lot. So if they're not aware that Kim and Saul are together, then Saul could be his legitimate lawyer. But I don't know if that makes any sense at all. Well, that's what I was struggling with. So Adam, you were saying you don't know if Saul would screw up Mr. Acker. When I think about it, now that after hearing that, I realize probably they're going to try to get Mesa Verde to go to the other lot. Right. Exactly. They are fighting on Mr. Acker's behalf. But to a lunch point, if Saul represents Mr. Acker and they turn this into a lawyer versus lawyer battle, Mesa Verde, Kim's boss, they're going to recognize Jimmy. They're going to recognize Saul. And you've got to think they're going to look at Kim and say, what the hell's going on here? Yeah, this might be the thing that gets her in some trouble. Yeah, which ultimately may not be such a bad thing for her. It seems like she really doesn't like this job. Yeah, but I hope it doesn't. I don't know if it jeopardizes her license though. That's true. That's true. How awesome, by the way, was it Jimmy's method for winning Mr. Acker over? Yeah. I'm going to start using that. Carry a picture of that around in your wallet. Every meeting I go to, that's the first thing I'm going to show them. I'm just going to put it like projected on it. It shows up in the middle of a PowerPoint and you're like, oh, how did that get in there? Well, now that it's here, let's look at this for a second. Now you notice the man is the one doing the act. The act. They're like, Alon, what is this a metaphor for? And you go, hey, what's a metaphor? This is just a picture. The horse is your clients. Wait, no. There's something here. The man is the client and you're the horse, but you're enjoying it. Nice. You can really say anything. It's funny because I wrote down for that scene how smart Jimmy is. He really knows his audience and I think that there is a very specific audience where this will work. I don't know if there's many people besides Mr. Acker where this would have been the right move. And Alon and I. I like how long Mr. Acker had to look at that photo to process what he was really looking at. He's like, is there, am I missing something here? Yeah, it's absolute genius. Any other thoughts on the episode while it's still fresh? Yeah, I noticed no Lalo this episode. I know. I know that's always a disappointment. I even was paying attention to the opening credits. I saw Tony Dalton and I was like, yes, that's right, Lalo. Yeah. And also when I forget what scene it was, it might have been in, I forget, at some point you hear the sound of cooking. And I thought maybe we're about to see Lalo, but we didn't. And more of his tacos. Yeah. I also wonder the 50% off guys. I wonder if there's more to that or have we pretty much closed out their story at this point? It's so far, it seems me too. I mean, the interaction between Saul and those two boneheads is just great. But I wonder if it's just, A, entertainment, B, it shows you a little bit of the problems caused by the whole 50% off and basically encouraging more crime. I wonder if there's more to it than just that, if we'll see more of them. And if they'll, it's almost like those two skater kids where they ended up being pretty important in terms of getting Saul mixed up with Tuko. I wonder if these 50% off guys will play a similar role or if we've basically seen everything we'll see of them at this point. Yeah, I think the show tends to capitalize on the characters it introduces, even the minor ones. So I think we will see them again. They also, they're good comedic relief. They're like an even poorer man's Badger and Skinny Pete. So like if Badger and Skinny Pete are like a poor man's comedy duo, then these are like a homeless man's Badger and Skinny Pete. No, I guess, I don't know if that's offensive. Well, it's like Chris Farley and David Spade. Then it's Badger and Skinny Pete. Then it's those two guys. Yeah. And then it's Adam and Alon talking about it. No, then it's Wendy and the man that whose head she crushed for the ATM. Oh, god. Breaking Bad. And I don't think it gets a little lower than that. Wait, it wasn't Wendy. It wasn't Wendy. It was a different scale. Gotcha. I thought you were talking about Wendy's for a second. And what's his name, Adam? What's the name of the guy you founded, Wendy's? Oh, I will not tell you that because you're not going to get me. If you want to know what that is, what we're talking about, listen to the full take. That's a little inside joke here. Yeah, we'll explain the whole thing. Jokes are best when they're explained. Yeah, I just remembered something about that. I wanted to mention with the guys that beat up Mike, speaking of hoodlums like these 50% off guys. Those are also hoodlums, so good transition right there. Yeah, it's even better when you explain it. Thanks, man. Yeah. So remember last time I was saying how they were pretty bad friends. They let Mike just break their friend's arm and they just stood there and watched and then let him get away. So I'm glad they were able to get their revenge. That's a lot on everyone. They're the good guys in this show. Yeah, they've redeemed themselves good. I'm glad we got closure on that open thread. Okay, well, I think that wraps it up for tonight's episode. Like we said at the front, make sure to check back later in the week for the full recap and analysis. If you're listening to this or you're watching this on YouTube, check out the description. We'll link to the podcast so you can also hear that deeper analysis of the episode. Anyway, with that, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching and we'll see you on the next saw cast.