 And Robin, did you send me that photo? I haven't. No, I'm just going to do it right now. Let me see which is the one that's really clear. I'm going to do it. OK. So we are four of us. We're expecting Antonia? Yeah, I haven't heard otherwise. OK. OK, so it is. I thought Antonia couldn't make it today. Did you say that at the last time? I forget now. Yeah, when we scheduled it, she had some like club meeting that she had to prepare for some visitors or something like that. That's right. And that was today. Kayla, thanks for the reminder. OK, so we're all here. So it is 6.37 PM. I am Robin Portham, chair of the Amherst Historical Commission, opening this December 4, 2023 meeting of the Amherst Historical Commission. And pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, general law C30A, section 18, and pursuant to chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021 and extended by chapter 22 of the Acts of 2022 and extended again by the state legislature on July 14, 2022 and signed into law in July 16, 2022. This public meeting of the town of Amherst Historical Commission is being connected via remote participation. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings of real time by technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing has been posted on the town's online calendar. OK, so first on our agenda this evening is announcements. The only announcement I have is I think Nate sent out, or I sent to Nate to send out an announcement of a webinar, an hour and a half webinar on early 20th century architecture if anybody's interested in attending. And I would love to know if anybody attends any of these things that I send around what their feelings about them are in terms of helping their work on the commission. Does anyone else have any announcements? Hearing none. Agenda item two is the review of the FY25 historical preservation CPA proposals. I know that Ms. Jenny Barnhol and the participants, I know she was interested in attending the meeting, the Amherst Historical Society's proposal for accessibility and existing condition study was presented and discussed at the CPA meeting last week. Those are the other three that are going to follow. I can. There's a hand raised. Robin, we could promote you to panelists. OK. And then. Maybe I think I said, Jenny, it's Gigi, right? Gigi, yeah. Channeling Simeon Strong. You know, the Historical Society just co-opted my identity. I presume meeting I go to, I come in as Simeon Strong and I don't know how to change it. But anyway, I'd be happy to have your questions or explain anything or. You want to just give a really brief recap to our commission on the proposal before the CPA committee. Sure. The proposal is certainly for us a high priced one, but it's clear that we have a lot of issues with the Simeon Strong House and the Board of Trustees is a very well-meaning group of volunteers. We know a lot about a lot of different things, but we in no way are qualified to assess what the Simeon Strong House needs to make sure that it's safe and structurally sound for the decades to come. So we put in for a substantial grant really for a study and it'll be under the supervision of Coon Riddle Architects, which is very handy because they're right across the street, but they've had good experience with old buildings. And Elon is just totally committed to historic preservation and the importance of this project. So there are quite a few components. There are several sort of subcontractors who have specific expertise in certain areas like the Conway Company in Springfield is a really good mechanical systems engineer. And we need to have our wiring, plumbing, fire alarm systems looked at, assessed, and then it'll be up to us later on to figure out how to pay for upgrades. But what we'll get at the end of this project is really a well-defined blueprint for how to proceed with the house. And there will be drawings of if we can, we worry about our lack of accessibility. And this is something that impedes our grant proposals with the Massachusetts Cultural Council. But we'll have drawings to work from finally and perhaps a couple of different ideas on that. But the other thing we're troubled about or worried about is, of course, the expansion at the Jones Library and its impact on the structure. And so the computerized scans by my BIM team is, I think, cutting-edge technology that will allow, this is complicated because it's really up to the Jones Library to pay for those scans. And we're trying to get it through their trustees. But the technology exists, and we can make use of it, to do these scans that provide exceedingly detailed, basically drawings. And they can do a 3D model. But they can actually do an overlay of before and after and really tell, has the house sunk? Has the tilt to the west become more tilted? And these are the kinds of very exact measurements that we need. But if the library agrees to take care of those expenses, we'll, of course, withdraw it from the proposal. But we won't know. And CPAC also asked us to apply for the Massachusetts Cultural Council's cultural facilities planning grant process. And we're doing that. I'm pretty well finished with the proposal. We just need to put in some more facts and figures. But if we get a $30,000 grant from them, then that just frees up more CPAC money if they approve the whole package. And I, we'll see what happens. And just for my other, my fellow commissioners, the total ask right now from the Amherst Historical Society is $74,350. And yeah, I also strongly, one of my objectives is to get our, any CPA historical preservation applicant to consider other sources of funding. So delighted that you're doing that. And I strongly encourage you to also apply to the Massachusetts Preservation Project Fund. I said in the CPA committee, I'm now currently employed by MHC. So I can't be associated with it in any way, shape, or form. But I'm aware that they're project deadline for the same funding year, basically starting in July, as I think in March. So there's a lot of time. And it looks like they do fund these same sort of planning grants. Your effort would send a fabulous precedent for other applicants to encourage this kind of outreach, where particularly when we see a project going forward, that is, you've got these planning documents, and then you are going to need to move forward to seek additional construction funds potentially and that sort of thing. And that also, were you to receive a grant somewhere that probably puts you in a, may put you in a better position for further funding for them. Or it would strengthen any grant proposals from any organization in the future. So those are my recommendations to, my fellow commissioners have any other questions. I wanna say the only thing with the Massachusetts grant, you have to have sometimes a 50% match. Right, the idea being that the CPA would be the 50%. Right, you'd be our match. Right, yeah. Match, the Mass Cultural Council Facilities Fund can be matched with municipal funds. Right, right, it's both UCPA, so. Right, yeah, which would be great. I totally agree with you, Robin. Look at its many sources of funding. And if we get the Mass Cultural Council grant, I think that's a good foot in the door for future funding. And it's a kind of a stamp of approval. Yeah, and when it, yeah, that's very true too. One of my to-do projects is to pull together a preservation funding list. There's the 1772 Foundation too, which might be something you would use when you get to the construction part. Farther down, yeah, and those are small. They're small, but you know, every 10,000 dollars that you don't need to take from CPA. So Pat, Hattie, Michaela, any questions? Hattie is shaking now. Pat is saying now, Michaela, any questions? Okay, well, thank you for joining us. Okay, well, thank you. And thank you all for taking the time to work for the town like this. It's very important. Thanks. I appreciate it. All right, have a good evening. Okay, you too. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. Bye. Thanks. You can stay in the meeting as an attendee. I'll change your role. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'd love to listen in. Yeah, so I think what's important for the commission is that the amount of money requested from the CPA committee is quite a bit more than they have available. And so the CPA committee often tries to fund every applicant, whether it's at a reduced amount. And so I think this year they're gonna be faced with either not funding some projects or I mean, there's already quite a bit of debt service every year, which you know, so we oftentimes, the CPA committee will borrow against their future funding. And so now we're half a million dollars into the whole every year, almost 600,000 in debt service, which is borrowed against the future reserves that come in or future CPA funding. So I think for the commission later on, after we hear these proposals is, possibly making recommendations to the CPA committee because I think that it might help them you know, in their discussion. Right. Well, and of course. Oh, sorry, I just changed her role too. Whoops. It just went through. I was gonna say that this question was brought up with the CPA committee. And the answer was generally that, and I think there was some, there might have been some public comment. I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly to underscore this, but that it would be challenging to break up these assessment reports into multi-year projects because of first of all, the Jones project going potentially going forward and the impact of that. And then just, you know, you really want to do everything as a package. I think it was one of the architects who said that, you know, that you start to look at one thing and you really need to have all the assessments together. So that's their view, not my words, but important to keep in mind. Yeah, and I actually think that it's not too large of an ask either. Right, yeah, it's large for them, but not for CPA. Okay, any further discussion in that regard? We're just going over the presentations that were presented last week, and then we're gonna actually discuss, I think all of them on our recommendations. So I'm gonna move on to the Amherstian Church of Nazarene. I sent out, I apologize, quite late, just a drafting of a statement that I drew up. I think I believe that I or perhaps, perhaps other CPA committee members, I'm not sure it's probably only me, a question about whether replacing this late roof of the church was in alignment with the secretary of the interior standards, which relate to the fact that you should always replace whenever possible in historic material with a historic material, and you should repair when repairs can be done. And I think I could sent Nate this picture. We have some documentary evidence, both from the people who inspected the building that suggested there were different roofs over the lifetime of this building, different roof materials, including which shingles, asphalt shingles and slate, and the picture that I, the one picture that I was able to really define for the early time of the church, looks like it might have been a standing stone metal roof. So that allows lenience in terms of the secretary's standards to say, you don't really know what the original historical roof of this building was. The second part of the standards is that they're to be applied when economically and technically feasible. And I think we've recognized the economic feasibility of a new slate roof is phenomenal, doubles are more than doubles the price. And technical feasibility has to do with the fact that slate roofers are getting to be few and far between. And for as long as the slate roof exists, which I don't know what it was like 50 to 100 years, is that right, Nate? Yeah, I don't think anyone says beyond 100, even if they do last that long. Right, right. But at that, you would need somebody who is proficient at repairing them and that's getting harder and harder. So I drew up that statement that I would just like agreement on so that we could make a clear recommendation to the CPC committee that allows the church to go forward with their proposal as an asphalt roof from our recommendation. That we see that that's an alignment with the standards and the final piece is that it's fully reversible. So that's another piece of historic preservation that you can make, you were often given leniency to make a change if you can fully reverse the change and return it to whatever its historical material was. So do you have that picture, Nate? Yeah, I'll share. I think seek Young's here. If you want to raise your hand, you could speak to the proposal. And I'll see Jeremiah's here. All right, that's zoomed in a bit. I'll zoom out, but there's the church. Yeah, that photo was dated circa 1900. I mean, there's a lamp there that, you know, somebody with more technical expertise than I could date but it's clearly, it's really not a slight roof a long time ago. The other thing I really like about this picture if we get to the point where the church is interested in repainting is that it's pretty clear that it's got a contrast paint job there that might be, be revealable through. And as neat as the shutters are closed in this image. Yeah, yep. Back when they used shutters. So seek Young, you're a panelist now. You could, if you can unmute yourself, you could, you had unmuted yourself. I bet I could unmute for you. There we go. Well, I'm here to waiting for the historical commission decision whether we're allowed us to go with the Ash for Shingo. I had a research somewhat very little and limited to estimate we have from slave roofers prices, our ranges, our wages, because one of the contractors says they will not do partial repair because amount of work involved in mines will do whole roof. Well, we like that, but our budget is very limited. And the other slave roofer, I said that already a couple of weeks ago, he's no longer taking a new job. He's planning on retiring. So it was hard for me to find any slave roofer, the contractor. And one of the contractor who were helping us notices Ash for Shingo's up there right now. So that's why he called the human service who doing an Ash for Shingo roofer. So we have an estimate. Currently we submit to CPA. It's based on that Ash for Shingo roof estimate. So total amount that we come up with or we submit was $179,000. And CPA asks that we have any contingency plan. Yes, we are being a church. We are solely course relying on our congregation contribution. And the worst come worst, we will seek mother church from New England district, or a headquarters which is located in Kansas. Then third contingency plan is I went to bank myself the local bank where we use. So if a worst come to worst, will they lend us money? They say yes. So that's where we are. And we are hoping to not to go over $179,000. And depends on what kind of decision I get from our historical commission tonight. Thank you. Thanks for being here and thanks for your persistence with this project. No, that's what I could do. Thank you all. So I don't know if you wanna maybe just put that statement up, Nate, if we could have a vote on it, like if folks could read it and then vote on it so that while Seek Young is here, we could give the project the assurance that we approve of the proposal as it's submitted. You're muted. Yeah, I'm working on it. Okay. We're said it needed to do an update and it's not responding right now. So I think I can get it in a second. Okay, okay, love it when that happens. Oh, I'm afraid to update my computer right now. Zoom needs an update, but every time I log on to a meeting and I just haven't just sat down and done it, I didn't wanna do it before. Yeah, well, for Michaela's benefit, the Amherstion Church occupies what is historically known as the North Amherst Congressional Church, which is a contributing building in the North Amhersther District. I don't know the exact name of the building. So it is therefore on the national register and on the state register. It has sort of a twin in South Amherst, you have these two federalist style, incredibly similar churches. They came last year with a proposal. I think at that point, they were considering the slate roof and there was a desire for more clarity about their proposal. And so their proposal was tabled and eventually expired because time just kind of rolled around. And so they're here again, they've clarified their proposal and targeted this asphalt roof. They have some water leakage. If you go and I've been, I was fortunate to have them allow me to do a study of their church as part of my coursework. And it's pretty apparent that the damage that has the potential to cause more damage, more cost over time and put the building at risk. So that's basically why they're before us. And we will go into discussion about our support for this and the dollar amount, but that's the basics of it. Thank you. Yeah. It's very near my house. So I see it every day. I was also gonna say that going to an asphalt roof and removing the old layers would reduce the weight. And so they have some broken, it's kind of like a hybrid style construction with kind of timber frame, but also the modern, it's kind of that mix. And there's some broken perlins and other things. And so they're gonna fix that, but having a lighter roof would actually help preserve the structure, which is part of the CPA piece. Do you want me to share, Nate? If you're still, you got it? You got it? Yeah. Can I just, I'll zoom in a little bit and... Yeah. And I think it was important for the commission. If we, I'll give you, I'll say something. I think the CPA committee would welcome the guidance on this project. So if we agree to this statement and Robin can pass it on to the CPA committee, then there's no question of whether or not it's appropriate to replace the roof material. And they're not really, the CPA committee isn't left questioning it. It's really then more about what the funding level of the project. So maybe you just want to, people want to put their hands up when they've read it. We can continue. That's done. That's done. Waiting on you, Heddy. I'm good, sorry. Just good, okay. All right. Find my icons. For the, in the interest of efficiency, does anybody have any objection to this statement? No. None from Pat? No. Okay. So, I learned this in another meeting recently. The chair will entertain a motion to affirm the statement proposed by chair Robin Fordham in support of it. So moved. Okay. Heddy, so moved. I need a second. Second. Okay. Then we'll have a roll call vote. Pat. In favor. Heddy. Aye. Betayla. Yes. Aye. And I vote aye. Okay. Thanks, folks. I trust that will put the church and the CPA kiddies minds at ease. Okay. I see that you've still got Tsukyung in the panel. Yes. I'm assuming we don't need further comment. Are we good? Nate? Sure. Yeah. I'll make you an attendee again. And thank you again. And Hilda's had her hand raised on and off, Robin. Yeah. Do we, how do we, we tend to wait with public comment till the end, but it's your colony. I don't. Oh, as chair, you can, I mean, I was thinking we'd at least try to get through that presentation and we could allow Hilda the chance to speak. I guess if she has a question, there's comments specifically about it. That would be fine. All right. Hilda, you can unmute yourself. Yes. I wanted to ask while you were still on that section before you took the boat, that building makes me cry every time I drive by because there's so much deterioration. Are they planning on fixing anything else like the rotten wood on the facade before even painting the building? Is any of that being considered? I mean, I would say that just again, for reasons of efficiency and what we have before us, you can certainly engage with the, with Sikyung and the church regarding what their future plans are. We're just trying to stay focused on the roof right now, especially considering how much time we've spent getting them through the process. I mean, I know that that when they came before the CPA committee last year, they certainly had, we all had discussions about what was next in line in terms of what might need repair and what they might return to CPA for, but I can't speak for them at this point. And it's not really, that kind of, I think it's not really that kind of a discussion right now, but your comments are recognized and a valid concern. Yeah, well, I'll just say as part of the roof project, they're gonna fix some of the fascia and the trim. So if you look along the roof line, there is some damage and rot, they'll fix that, but repainting the whole church that had been part of the consideration last year was questioned, but it's, some of it's a matter of cost and then phasing. So what town had asked for was a phasing plan. And so I think right now, it's really about getting the roof in certain aspects, some rot fixed and stabilizing the structure and then proceeding with an approach after that. Thank you. Thanks, Hilda. Yeah, I mean, the neighbors are all concerned and that it's heartbreaking to see what's happened over 30 years. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I think we're ready to move on to our next agenda item, which is 2C and that is the District 1 Neighborhood Association, the Miller River History Trail Project. That is a project associated with further research of additional sites along the Miller River History Trail and their intention is also to do some, so website work, but that would not be funded by CPI funds because that's outside the area of eligibility. And I think the important thing for our commission to know is that any of the information that they uncover as part of this archival research is definitely material that can be applied to either Form B as building forms or Form A area forms. So it meets a really specific responsibility of the local historic commission, which is to keep the macros inventory up to date. So that's one reason in particular to provide it with support. And their ask was for $46,875. I don't have notes in front of me, I'm trying to remember. I think our, Hedy can chime in here, but our conversation about this project got a little bit off track talking about what the trail will be used for in terms of recreation and what kind of signage will it have. And it would be good just to focus back on this particular proposal, which is just for archival research. It's with the intent of creating a trail, but the archival research does serve a particular inventory purpose. And so I think that's what makes it a particularly strong proposal. Did you have any other comment, Hedy? I don't think so. It's just really an extension of what's been done already, widening the number of sites that are needing research that goes a bit deeper so that we can kind of connect the dots really. And actually the North Church in M.S. is one of the sites. And I think the North Church is also, so I think in need of a form B update. So it's something to keep in mind. Did you have any comments, Nate? No, I mean, we talked about it, I think was it just last month or the month before, or was it more of a review or? Okay, yep. Any other questions or comments? Okay, so the next project that was presented was Michael and Kimberly Como, a historic house move project in the West Side Historic District of X260 Northampton Road. And a lot of questions around this one, I would say that my comments to the CPA Committee were, I was kind of struggling to pull together my ideas around when we fund private property owners with CPA funds, which we've determined is allowable. There are a bunch of questions that go with that. And in past years, we funded the Hills House of the Women's Club. We approved funding, which I don't know if it's been adopted by the Salem Place, the Conky Stevens House. This being a single private homeowner, it just brings us into new territory. And I was kind of trying to pull together my thoughts. The first big question, and I don't know if Nate has an update on this or not, but just looking for my notes here. There was a question as to whether the applicant would accept the new property. Whether the applicant would accept a preservation restriction. And it was clarified that preservation restriction, it doesn't have to be in perpetuity, but it is a requirement in terms of CPA funding. And Nate is shaking his head before it was noted. It's, it may be a requirement. Maybe, do you want to talk about that at all? I mean, my understanding is that, you know, the language is that it is a requirement when a town takes an interest in a property. And this is, I think, a $90,000 ask. So that, you know, the town invests a certain amount of money on a piece of property. And so what is the town's return on it in a preservation restriction allows for that property to maintain its historical integrity over the term of the restriction, whether it's in perpetuity or for a limited period of time. So that helps guarantee the idea that, like, you know, that the applicant, you know, couldn't come the following year and, you know, request demolition of all or part of the house and really alter its structure. But maybe you want to talk specifically more, Nate, about whether or not that is a requirement. I mean, I kind of, in our meeting last week, I asked Dave and because there was uncertainty on the part of the property owner. And if there are a lot of other questions that follow, whether we're going to put in a preservation restriction and so I don't know exactly how to go forward from there, but go ahead and speak to that. Yeah, the owner can't, they can't attend tonight. And we had an email exchange. They said they'd be willing to enter into a restriction. They just would need more detail. And so the CPA language around historic preservation says, when the, you know, there's a, when the, I think it says when the town acquires property. And so it's a little different than some of the other categories, open space or others. And so a lot of communities don't require a preservation restriction for historic preservation projects unless they're actually purchasing property for historic preservation. So Northampton doesn't really have them, you know, some communities interpret the statute differently. And so I think it's really a local decision. You know, we had talked about this, I don't know, in the last year, the commission has about not having a permanent restriction, but having, you know, a 30 year or a 50 year and having it be a local restriction between the town and the commission and the entity. I think that's appropriate. I've asked the town attorney to look into it a bit ago. And so, you know, part of the, part of having a restriction whether or not it's actually required by statute is that it would, you know, help secure and derive the public benefit. So some of it is, okay, we're giving public funds to a private entity. What is the public benefit? And so, you know, with the, you know, sale in place with the Ifmar-Conkey house, you could say that the public benefit is it's individually listed in the national register, its style, its location on Main Street, just even maintaining it as, you know, a visible structure on Main Street. That could be enough public benefit given the, you know, the nature and architecture of the house. And for others, it may be that there's some other attributes, right? It's, first of all, we have to determine it's historically significant to the town. And what is that? Is it, you know, for certain structures, is it, you know, it's architectural style, relationship to a view shed or to, you know, culture, you know, the town or politicals, the say the things we use in the demolition review. And so I think a preservation restriction for most projects is necessary. This being one of them. I think the strong house, for instance, if we're doing studies or even the North, you know, we just mentioned the research for the trail, to me, a restriction is not necessary. And I think it's, you know, the idea is that we're, even for East Amherst, you know, one of the other CPA proposals is money to study properties and document them with, you know, new form Bs for up to 40 or 50 properties. And I don't, you know, there's no restriction there. But the idea is that we're, the public benefit is we're getting research made available through form Bs or reports that could be, you know, that is going to be linked in Makris and online and it could be in the Jones library. And so for this project on North Hampton Road, they're asking to move the house and a restriction would be, you know, I think a restriction would be appropriate. And some of it would also be to then, as Robin said, you know, we'd have guidelines. We could allow changes to the structure, but it would want to be reviewed by the commission. And they couldn't, you know, put an addition on and change the, it's an Italian aid house, you know, next year, you know, put a big addition on and all of a sudden it's no longer what it is and or tear it down or something. And so. Right, right. Yeah. So, so that's, so given that you've gotten some communication that the, that the applicant is, you know, not is willing to engage in a preservation restriction, you know, after some discussion. In terms of this house and recommendations to the committee, I went through my thinking and, you know, came up with the fact that it, I think it passes the significant test, significance test because it is part of this National Register District. So it's on the National Register. That's pretty much, that's pretty much significance right there. It has architectural significance as I think it's the most Southern, well, I'm not sure in the National Register District, it sort of talks about how it's this, it's this oddly situated Italian aid house. If you drive by it, once I realized which house it was, I was like, oh yeah, I know that house because it has these really substantial overhanging eaves. Public interest test, it's a little bit different in the sense that it's in a little bit busier part of town, but it really is one of the house, first houses that you see that sort of signals that you're entering a historic area. And then the next questions I had, and you know, these are somewhat more for the CPA committee, but I wanted to talk about them in front of the commission is the idea, especially in this year where funds are tight, what is the urgency? So essentially what happens if we do nothing and what is the financial need of the homeowner because the entities that have come before us have been faced with either just no funds to make historically sensitive repairs or historically sensitive repairs being so much more expensive than I think in the case of the concave students house, you know, is really within the budgets of their homeowners. This is a homeowner whose foundation in their historic house is failing, but I don't really, I'm not really clear at what rate it's failing and whether this could stand to be kicked down down the road another year. And what sort of, you know, they did address, you know, that there's trapped for resources just as, you know, most people are that they might be able to get a loan to cover it, but, and then I just wanted to float this and I'll do so at the CPA meeting this week, whether this particular property might introduce the idea and I don't know if any other CPA committee does something like this, but to provide the funds as a no interest loan due upon sale of the home that would be in my mind sort of a kind of halfway allowing for the relocation of the home to go forward with the return of CPA funds. So those are just all ideas I had. They are talking about relocating it, which I mean, when I first read the proposal, I just thought like, oh, this is a homeowner's issue. And then when I asked the question about, because they talked about interference from traffic, the house is at risk from traffic on route nine. And I said, well, you know, any house is at risk for traffic on route nine and they listed three out of the four incidents they've had where cars have, one car actually did directly hit the house and two others have made it too close for comfort. And I guess that's a question for the commission, whether it's not a relocation that moves it to a different lot. So you wouldn't be talking about issues of necessarily affecting the integrity by shifting its position. And I don't know if the relocation would pivot the front facade, which faces not to where I came to the road at this point. If it would be facing the road, which would be sort of an added public benefit to allow the face of the building, but that's something I'm not clear on. So I don't know if anybody has any questions or comments, I'd be happy to discuss them, especially considering that I'm gonna need to be arguing for this project one way or the other, probably on Thursday. So this is one of the less straightforward projects that we have and I welcome any comments from you too. I mean, it's interesting that it's almost to the border of Amos and Hadley. I mean, the historic map that you just shared with the commissioners, Robin, you know, makes that very clear. So we have that building on one side of Amos and we have the Conkley-Stevens house in another historic district on the east side of Amos. And I think the house on Northampton Road is about 1870. I can't remember what the date is on the Conkley-Stevens house, but I think it's earlier and I know it's part of the east village historic district. So these are both places where people are sort of coming into town. And as you say, these buildings sort of signal that you're entering Amos and that you're entering a historic town that cares about its historic resources. And so, you know, I'm very intrigued that it's an Italianate style house, Italianate houses in the Pioneer Valley are a very interesting phenomenon in and of themselves. In this case, what's interesting is that it's a, the family who live in the house from the early on period are quite modest in terms of their occupation. So that intrigues me to find out more about that and, you know, what their story is and how they came to Amos and, you know, who they are. Yeah, I mean, the, the click feed research that I was able to do has, you know, lines up with what's in the National Register nomination that it was a John McCarty or McCarthy, it looks like he's McCarty and then he later becomes McCarty and then it's handed down when he's listed owning the house, this woman, Mary Bowlers, actually his niece, I think she becomes part of the family. She ends up owning it at a certain point. And he was listed, I think in the, let's see, in the 1880 census, he's a farmer and his kids are at school and his wife is keeping house. And in 1900, he becomes a day laborer and his daughters start working in like the hat factory. So, I mean, this, you know, then they were both, both John and his wife Ellen were born in Ireland and they're buried in Hadley, I think because they were Catholic. So, but, you know, more to the point, I mean, I'd be curious what you think about the idea of a, of, you know, what the financial need is of the homeowner, Nate, they haven't really come up with, you know, with this before and. Yeah, Pat has her hand raised. I was gonna say that they are proposing to move the house, you know, into the property quite a bit. It's a larger property. And so, you know, it's relationship on the streetscape will change quite a bit. The, let's see. So here it is coming up Northampton Road on Google street view that this tree is no longer there, but the, you know, the new sidewalk, you know, the road was widened. So, you know, it's the road edge is much closer to the house, but what they're hoping to do is move it back, you know, quite a bit. So here the house is located right here is to move it back quite a bit from the road. And it came before the historical commission, I think it was three years ago and the commission debated, and it was only, it was for a demolition permit. And the commission at the time said, well, you know, it's really won't be, it's not really a demolition in the sense of it, if you're preserving the house and putting it on a new foundation. And so there were discussions about, well, would the new foundation, should it be match the existing in terms of material or outward appearance and what is the historic integrity of the house if it is moved on the site? And they actually didn't really answer that. And they said, well, in terms of just the demolition piece, this could happen. And then, you know, it spent a little bit of time with the pandemic and everything and now the owners are back. I think it, if this were to be recommended, I think the commission would want to be, you know, clear in why it's important because I just had an email today from another homeowner who's like, I live in a really old house and somewhere and I want money to fix it. And I've had a number of calls over the last year. I'm like, oh, I live on Lincoln Ave. I'd like to fix my house. And it's like, well, you know, CPA money is available, but it's not just because it's an old house that has to have, you know, some historic significance and really a public benefit, I think. So I think it gets tricky. And at some point the commission might have to be, you know, pretty judicious and how it recommends funding, even if it's eligible, just the fact that there's competing interests. And so how, you know, whether or not this is eligible, how does it fall in the ranking of the historic preservation projects and then in the CPA overall? You know, I think the homeowners, you know, haven't, often the CPA committee asks if you could have a match or what is it, you know, what kind of contributing funds or how could you leverage this? That's something to consider. I do think it's, yeah, I mean, I think for some reasons it's as heady, as you mentioned in Robin, there's reasons why this could be important to fund. I do think that moving it off the road and actually having it almost not be visible if you're coming up on Northampton Road might change it a little bit. Well, certainly if we were to, I mean, it's pretty open space there. I don't know. I mean, I'm curious to get a rendering of, you know, kind of how much you would see because if it were something that were to just peer into the woods, it would be less likely to recommend it. And, you know, that would be a really a basis for establishing one way or the other, for me at least. I mean, I agree. I mean, I'll just do a quick share and then I guess, Pat, you could... Oh yeah, I'm sorry, Pat, we're... Not to worry. Coming up the street, I think the property is pretty open. So even if it's set back, it's probably visible. It's just, you know, it's not the same as where it's located now. Oh, sorry, Pat, if you want to speak, guys. Sure, sure. No, I just, I had a couple of thoughts. And one was I was wanting to clarify that they came before us a few years ago. I think pre-pandemic. And I remember going out and checking to see what the foundation was made of and we'd questioned whether it had to be the same or not, et cetera. And then nothing happened because I passed that quite often. But I agree with the pondering of moving it back into what extent it maintains this streetscape. But also, Robin, I was a little intrigued with your thought of a no-interest loan to be paid essentially a lien on the property when it's sold. And has the town lawyer been posed this question and weighed in on it? No, I mean, this was just something that I would say occurred to me as it was part of my work in the city of Greenfield. I worked on their housing rehab program where people are just having roofs or porches replaced or whatever. And there you enter into agreement with the city. It all depends. Sometimes it's fully repayable. Sometimes there's a gradual, depending on the funding year, there's a gradual forgiveness of the loan. You might give someone a loan of $15,000 if they own it for long enough, eventually the debt disappears and it's forgiven. But in this case, I would see it as more like maybe a match or something like that. I mean, it was something that it would not be, I don't think that it would be something that we could achieve in this funding round. I don't think there's the time for the appropriate consideration of applying that, but I would like to, I don't get the sense, as you said, they came before us a while ago to move to the house. It's clearly not super urgent. When asked what they would do if they weren't funded, they said they just keep working on, it's not gonna, I don't think it's gonna collapse at any moment. So... Right, and it just, that was part of the question. You know, how urgent is this? And here they are several, I'm gonna say three years later about, approximately, and in the meantime, they built that other outbuilding on the hill. And so I guess, you know, my recollection is when they first came to us, it was because the foundation was failing. And the, now the reasoning for moving it is, it sounds different than it did then. I think that's still basically the same. Is it? Okay. They added the threat to, you know, sort of in a preservation argument, they added the threat of these traffic and the incidents that they've had and they're even closer to the street now, that the street... It's been widened through. And, yeah, when they, like I said, when they provided those examples, I gave that argument more quickly. Okay, just, I was just looking for clarification. And I think the idea of, in an instance like this, essentially putting a lien on, maybe having a progressive forgiveness over time. But I think, you know, with funds so limited that there are projects that are more specifically, in my opinion, more specifically preservation projects. And this is in its own way, but it's not entirely. Right. It's not as direct and strong. Right. So just sharing my thoughts. Thank you. Nicaela, did you have any comments? I just, I agree with what Pao's saying at the end where it's hard because I feel like everybody puts a lot of work into their submissions, their requests, but we have like a limited ability of what we can accomplish. Right. So I agree with the overall. Seems like consensus that this seems like a lower priority request, unfortunately. As it does speak to the idea of having a revolving fund in our most at some point, that would be able to address private homeowners requests especially in historic districts, you know, which this house is. So, you know, as Robin said, it should count for something. And maybe there just needs to be a step back from this particular property group or an owner's request to something to a conversation about Amherst having a revolving fund that could be administered, maybe not by the town but by the Amherst Historical Society or some other kind of entity or friends of Amherst Preservation, perhaps. Or even, you know, even CPA with a repayment requirement. Yeah, I was gonna say, Robin, if this were to move forward, I think, yeah, for housing, we often do, you know, the first payment loan, you know, it can be written off one 30th a year over 30 years. So if they sell it in your 15, they pay back at 15, you know, one fifth, you know, whatever half of the amount. I think that could happen pretty quickly if that were to have, you know, if this were recommended by CPA. So I don't, I think that, right, if we do it with housing loans or housing grants, we'll do a no in a different payment loan or something pretty regularly. So can you, can I just make a request that maybe you float that somehow to whoever's gonna be in attendance on Thursday? So I'm not explaining it, you know, out of the blue. Yeah, I'll talk to Dave and maybe I can email Holly and then that can go up to the CPA committee. Yeah, just so there's some, I mean, so that they know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do think that we're at the end kind of of the CPA presentations or discussions. I think the committee, often the commission will write to the CPA committee with, you know, with some guidance. And I think I was gonna share my screen. Our next agenda item, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I have. Oh, great. But yeah, what is, what's visible? I'm seeing a few things on my screen right now. Is it the, the list of? It's the proposals in their amounts. Yeah. All right, yeah. So I was going to suggest that we go from high dollar figure down since, you know, the smaller, the smaller grants are a little easier to, but they're not as quite as hard to say no to. Could someone remind me of the total amount that is like allotted for the year? Yeah. From CPA. Yep. So we'll go back here. Sorry. I lost it. I was on. I mean, I have in my spreadsheet, like a, you know, I mean, totally ballpark. 1,700,000. Here it is. Sorry. I was jumping around the meeting. Right. So if you, I guess the important thing is down here. So they have 520,000 in debt service. There's some reserves that haven't set aside for housing. And so what this says is if we have, if we available after meeting debt obligation is 1.54 million, if committee decided to use reserves, you know, there's 1.7 the total project requested less debt services almost 2.5 million. So the shortfall of 750,000. Yep. And the preservation asks are 567,000. Yeah. And so what's here in yellow or I don't know if it's orange is debt service. And so, you know, it shows you what year they're in. So, you know, some will be falling off. Some are just starting, but, you know, for instance, if the town says, oh yeah, let's fund a few other projects and the ads to the debt service, you know, next year, this number could be, you know, 650,000. And so just, you know, I think it's really, I think it's great that we can, the town can borrow. I think it should be, you know, the problem is it takes away from future requests. And so usually it's typically reserved for really high priority projects or ones that have a larger budget. And so, you know, for me, it'd be really silly to say, let's bond $100,000 for some project. It should, you know, and that's not, you know, the CPA committee will have to decide that, but maybe the commission itself could say, oh, well, there's two historic preservation projects that maybe could have a reduced amount or aren't as high of a priority. So the, I'll go back to that screen, though, is on. Okay. So the highest ask is for the Amherstion Church roof repairs. And that does not include, I mean, if you can address this, it does not include a contingency if like prices come in higher because the estimates were brought in before. If things weren't quite so tight, it would be the sort of thing, and I still might suggest it that, you know, we build in a contingency, which just means that these funds are not given to the organization. They have to pay for it and ask for reimbursement. So if their project comes in under budget, the money goes back into CPA, it's not like it's lost. But I am hesitant to recommend anything but a dollar less and given the importance of that building and the persistence of the applicant and the state of the roof. The other, I would say the other deterioration, I don't think poses as nearly as much of a threat to the actual building over time right now as this project. And so my recommendation to the committee would be that this be really be the first priority on this list. The, I will say that, sorry to jump in quickly, but last year when they came forward, the CPA committee had put about 165,000 in reserve for this project based on some, you know, some estimates that the church had at the time for maybe doing partial repairs or something. And so, you know, it's been a year, they've worked with town staff, they've worked met with different contractors to get quotes. And so really they followed through with what we, we had, you know, the CPA committee in the town had asked them. So, you know, right, what they have now is a pretty accurate estimate for the work. They have worked with CUMIDL to develop plans. And, you know, they've really followed through with everything that was laid out for them. So is $165,000 in reserve that would be, the difference would be new money ask? No, so what happened was if the money could have been allocated last fiscal year, then it could have, but the money basically is part of the existing amount now. So really it'd be a whole new FY25 allocation. Thank you, Nate. So is there any objection to putting this first on our most recommendations and giving it strong support? No, I think it's a good idea. It's a very important, yeah. I agree with that being first. Nate, maybe you want to talk to us now about the cemeteries and what kind of negotiated funding could go forward there to about $150,000 proposal right now. Yeah, I mean, you always, you know, like you don't want to say you could take less money, but we would accept less money as the town. You know, I think one of the CPA committee, one of the follow-up questions was what's the right number? And, you know, I think it can fluctuate. So, you know, we were trying to target, you know, over a hundred stones and monuments in both cemeteries that could be reduced, right? I mean, some of it was, we don't have a, you know, PDBC went out there a while ago, town staff looks at it and we think that, yeah, there's more than a hundred that could be preserved, but, you know, we could prioritize that. So, you know, I don't know what, you know, is 120,000 the right number or something, 110? I mean, there's, it could be a reduced amount. Okay. Well, is there any number that we would consider so low that it would defeat the purpose? I mean, you know. If we halved it, would it still make a difference that some work could be done on both of those cemeteries in terms of restoration of gravestones? Yeah, I mean, I think, sorry, I was just, I'll get my calculator. Yeah, some of it is just, I guess, I mean, I would say, maybe, you know, so, yeah. Well, some of it, yes, some of it is in that range. Well, I was trying to think that, you know, if we were to bid this, you know, what's the, sometimes there's an economies of scale. So if it's, you know, if they're only doing 30 stones in a cemetery, it might actually cost more. Yep. You have to come up and mobilize. Because, you know, the preservation treatment is they come up and they clean the stones, you know, number of times. And so they'll be, you know, whatever company will come to Amherst, likely have to be here, you know, four to six times. And so if we were trying to say, okay, let's do 75 stones in a cemetery, and, you know, if we use the estimate from, or the per stone cost now, it's about 60,000. That's not accounting for fixing larger stones or monuments. And so to me, you know, 80,000 is probably as low as I'd want to go. Just. Okay. Good to know. I'm not trying to diminish importance of the project because graveyard is really important for historical research. How about that? One was removing the fence and putting in granite markers. And so that might be a $20,000. I mean, you know, if we really needed to, could we say we're not going to do the fences? We tried this two years ago and it was, the CBA committee said, well, fixing the chain link fence in north cemetery is not historic preservation. But the idea of removing it and actually putting in granite markers is probably what was there. It was documented in south cemetery. I mean, I would say a hundred thousand would be, you know, would be probably better than 80, but. Okay. And essentially the removing the fences and putting in granite markers is something that doesn't have an urgency factor. So that could be, you know, kind of bumped for a year or two, if need be. Right. And that's about 20 of it. I forgot how we. So like 80,000 for gravestones alone is kind of our lowest hope, right? Yeah, if we always, right, if it was allocated 80,000 now would hopefully achieve, you know, around 75 stones in each cemetery, you know. Okay. Okay. Any other comments on them? I'd rather see the hundred thousand if we could get it just so we can do the best job but to exclude the fence. I think if I remember correctly, part of the discussion about the fence is that it, unless we replace it with the granite stones or markers, it really doesn't have anything to do with historic preservation. And that the fence should be the responsibility of the town from another budget. So I'd rather just focus on the gravestones. Yep. I'm with you, Pat. Me too. Okay. The historic house move. I would say that my feeling at this point is to have a robust discussion with the CPA committee about the urgency of this project and to consider some way to fund it that includes, you know, a lien or forgiveness loan or something like that. It's really take time to explore it and to defer probably defer for another year. I mean, if it needs, yeah, it's gonna be an interesting, I think it's gonna be the hardest discussion that we're gonna have. So curious anybody's input there. There's anything that they particularly want me to represent on Thursday. I think it just represent our current discussion tonight, Rob. Okay. Yeah, I think the urgency question and then the deferred payment loan, the DPL is a good things to discuss. I, yeah. And I'm gonna assume we're all in agreement that it does really meet the significance factor and provided that the relocation, that it's interchangeable provided the relocation doesn't diminish the streetscapes to such a point that it really isn't a public benefit anymore. Right, correct. Yes. Okay, Amherst Historical Society, Accessibility and Existing Condition Study. I am in favor of this, fully funding this. I think it's important. I think given the Jones Library Project, it really needs to move forward. And I am hopeful that between the two funding projects that I know Gigi said that they would be applying to mass cultural council and that maybe they will apply to the preservation funds that some of that money might be returned in the form of, or not returned, but reduced if they can get funding from another arm. So that my recommendation would be to fully fund again with a strong recommendation for them to continue to pursue outside funding which they seem interested in, which I'm pleased about because I think they're really gonna need to do that in order to put through any of the changes that come up through. Through these reports. I agree Robin, fully funded. Right, Pat? Yeah, I also agree. No, Mikaela? Okay, she's shaking her head. The up and down direction, okay. Mill River History Trail. They've done a great job with their first round of funding. It's going to provide important documentation for inventory, potential inventory updates. And I don't see, I think it would be a, it would be challenging if they were challenging to the momentum of the project to not have the section move forward. It's not an easy project for them to get funding elsewhere from. So in that regard, I would suggest fully funding. I would agree with that. They've had a remarkable start and I think it's significant information for the town and the history of the town. Yeah, I agree too. Okay, so that's a fully fund recommendation. And then the East Amherst Local Historic District. So this is a, help me along here, Nate. This is not, is it a formal survey? Okay, I get confused in this area between our expansion that's going underway with TVPC and what this, this, that's right. This is a survey with the intention of creating a new local historic district. Yeah, so I think what this money would be for is to actually complete and update, new inventory forms for 40 or 50 properties. And then also, so a member or two of the Local Historic District Commission reached out to Chris Skelly. He had been an employee at Mass Historic. He's a resident of Western Mass and he's now a consultant. And they reached out and he provided this estimate in terms of not only doing the research on the properties, but then also going through and helping prepare a study report and other documents to then apply to Mass Historic for a new local historic district. So, you know, the 20,000 was his estimate for all of that. I do think that, you know, if it's 50 properties and the rate per property in terms of doing it, 20,000 is still not a lot to research and generate 50 inventory forms and a report. You know, we can't sole source it for this amount. So the town would have to put out a request for quotes and select the lowest bidder. But, you know, with qualifications and identifying a minimum number of properties, I'm assuming larger firms, you know, may not have a lower price because of overhead and other factors and travel. So, you know, I think there's the point made to the CPA committee was that, right, kind of like North Amherst or the Mill River history trails that will have new research on properties. And that's kind of the historic piece. It's not really an endorsement of a local historic district in East Amherst. It's really about gathering this history and making it public. So, you know, if that's a question or a concern for the historical commission. Yeah, I mean, I think there's an added piece that for the documentation, that there is development pressure in the town of Amherst and that if one wants to proceed with historically sensitive development, having documentation like this in a, you know, what is, what was the original part of the town is pretty important. I mean, we do have, you know, we're seeing a lot of changes in that area. And I am not at all saying change is bad, but planned change is better than unplanned change. So in that sense, I mean, I'm just just trying to think of the urgency of this. I mean, you could, it's a small ask, you know, it could wait another year, but as the years go by, you know, we, I think we all know what pretty much every town in America is under pressure to provide more housing. And so this was a good argument for the urgency of just that it's just that, you know, this will help us plan appropriately. Yeah, I was gonna argue that the commission has been studying this for a bit. And, you know, knowing that it could take a year to get the district in place, you know, the urgency would be if it was a later year, it could actually be, you know, two and a half years before some protections were in place. So my recommendation would be fully funding in that regard. I think so too. It seems like a good benefit for cost for this project. Yeah, I agree with the funding. Me too. Okay. Do we have anybody who's got their hand up for public comment? There's only two members in the audience right now. Okay, okay. I just want to make sure that those are, that's a big, that's a big item that we just got done. Okay. I can email that, that word document out to everyone too, Robin, you can have it. Okay, great. Excellent. Thank you. And thank you for taking those notes. I appreciate it. Agenda item four is discussion of one and five year goals, which I am going to defer to our next meeting. Well, actually, no, maybe I won't because I don't know if we have, I don't know if anyone else has more preservation plan comments than our last round. I have not sent you guys the survey that I intended to, although I did development. So I don't have survey results to present. I sent my comments to Nate. I think maybe Hedy did too. Do you have any town feedback for us on that right now? I'd still, Hedy, if you, I don't know if I saw an email from you, but if I missed it, please. I'm going to send it again, Nate. Yeah. I did see an email today, but not, I'll send the video, a link to the previous meeting to PVPC. And it said, you know, I had starting at, you know, 39 minutes or whatever. You can watch the discussion we had about the preservation plan. So, you know, Rob, and I, you know, I think you provided comments. I mean, I know you provided comments and it was good to have. So yeah, what we could do is ask that they come back at the next meeting to provide an update. I mean, we can extend the contract. They're probably eager to get it done. It's been, you know, it's been taking a little bit of time, but for me, I think it'd be important just to make sure we, the commission reviews the next draft. Agreed. Yep. Any other comment on that item? No, okay. Nate, did I send you my edits? No, so I just searched for my inbox and I have, I did not see it in the last. Okay. I'm going to get it to you now. I'll be great. Thanks. Okay. Next item is Macros inventory. I just thought that I would throw out there the opportunity for anybody who is interested to begin compiling demolition updates. Whenever we demolish something, we're supposed to notify MHC. I think it's not unusual for a lot of times not to do that, but if folks are looking for fun projects to add to their historic commission experience, I'd be happy to, you can just shoot me an email and I can talk to you about, figure out what's required. I know somebody at my work is showing me how if you look at Macros maps, and you can sort of, if you have the appropriate underlay, you can actually see if the maps are updated enough, where there's a dot and there's no building anymore, and those can just be reported and that helps them update the inventory. So that's just sort of an informational note. Does anybody have any questions or? Okay. Next updates. I have the Jones Library Interior follow-up and there was also the MHC letter and we're not gonna be discussing either of those at this meeting. The Library Express is trying interest to be able to be at any meeting where we discuss those things. I just put it on the agenda because as part of our discussion with, this was completely separate from the MHC letter, which I'll refuse myself from, but prior to that, when we were having our discussion with the architects, we hadn't gotten to interior changes, which I think we don't have purview over as part of the preservation restriction, but we certainly could have an advisory role. And when we toured the building, a number of us had questions about particularly preservation of historic fabric that has to be removed and that sort of thing. So we will table that to our next meeting. Barn tours and assessment. Haven't gotten anywhere with that. Nate, is it okay for me to start to develop a mailing list from the outbuilding report? Start there. Yeah, I didn't respond to your email, but I think that would be a good thing to do. Yeah, and for Jones Library, just to let everyone know that the, yeah, we'd invite the team back, the trustees as well as the architects and consultants, and we'd have a discussion about changes to the interior. And it would be, as Robert mentioned, the commission can have an advisory role that could be provided to the Massachusetts Historical Commission. Robin would recuse herself due to her current employment. So we'd have to either have, if the vice chair is not available, we'd vote a vice chair or an acting chair for that portion of the meeting. So, whoever's one of the three here may be helping to manage that little piece of the meeting. Okay. So then, while with cemetery, I just wanted to let everybody know I met with Rebecca Freck, who, I don't remember her exact title, who's the manager over there. And she is working on updating the area for MACRA, I don't think, or actually I think there is no, there is no area for me. Yeah, and the Form B also for the building, the house also needs an update. And so we had a really great, interesting, fun meeting where there's so much to do. But we kind of agreed on a general strategy. I was gonna, I need to give her some editing feedbacks on her area form. The Form B needs a full upgrade, which would be a great project. I know I talked to Hedy and Madeline about it, doing the history and the write-up of that. And then there's also the question of the cemetery needs to be mapped. And without going into specifics too much, I could certainly have Rebecca come back and join us for a meeting. They started a fabulous GIS mapping of the cemetery, but there's a lot of work still to be done. And I thought that that might be something that members would wanna volunteer with. It's an outdoor activity, walking around and engaging with Rebecca and getting all that really important information down on paper. So that's just a general overview of our meeting. And maybe I can talk with her a little bit more about what a site visit might look. And at our next meeting, we can follow up and see if we could schedule one for anybody who's interested in helping with that project. It's a really, it's a great one. Yeah, I was gonna just jump in and say that they receive CPA funding. It was just a year ago to work on the house. They may come back to do some more rehabilitation of the house. It's a private cemetery, although there's a lot of history there. And so one of the recommendations was to complete some inventory forms and that also could make it eligible to apply for grants and other funding. And so they are following through with that. It's just been a volunteer effort, but I think, I don't know, maybe just Rebecca, if you're one of the two other people with the Cemetery Association, but they're really working to do that. I think that would be a really great thing to get completed for them. And then it's something that the CPA committee also asked. And so I think they're really trying to do all the due diligence that's necessary before they seek other funding. And so I, yeah. It's a, I think it's got potential for a national register nomination. I mean, that's a lot more work and a lot more funding, but certainly getting all these forms up to date, they start, those need to be up to date and up to par in order for a national register nomination to go forward. It is a garden cemetery. There's some relationship with, I think, Olmstead's son who took over. They did not design the cemetery, but there's, I think, letters back and forth talking about different aspects of it. A lot of really interesting questions. So it's unusual. Garden cemeteries were this movement that I think started about the late, what was it, like the mid 1800s, honey? Where, yeah, you went away from these grids to these places with sort of weaving trails. And the idea was that they were kind of recreational and horticultural as well as cemeteries. So, yeah. It's been a really interesting story because Central Park, which is Olmstead's claim to fame, is inspired by English cemeteries, which were sort of picturesque in terms of their landscaping design with monuments in them. And so that became the model for Central Park. And then the Central Park phenomenon, kind of re-infused this sort of very romantic idea of landscape and recreation in cemeteries in this country. And there are many that are on the National Register. I can think of a few off the top of my head, but it would be really great to see that kind of recognition given to Wildwood Cemetery because it's, again, a very important site in terms of Amherst's history. Yeah, and Amherst College actually too. And I think that the mapping of the graves is actually probably a pretty important part of, I'm not sure, but I would think a pretty important part of making that National Register bar. So that's something that we could help participate with. Okay. Going at a good clip here. Public comment for one diligent attendee. Hilda has any additional comments. She can raise her hand for a moment. Oh, she has raised her hand. Let's allow Hilda into the conversation. I was just gonna send a heading and all that Mount Auburn. Mount Auburn is the one we all, I gotta, anyway. Oops, we lost her. I think she's trying to silence her phone. Yeah, Mount Auburn in Boston, well, it's at Belmont. Yeah, that was the first garden cemetery. So, yeah, cemeteries by themselves are not National Register eligible. Like they have to meet certain, all they're always historic, almost always historic. They have to meet a certain higher bar, but the fact that the garden cemeteries are a movement is what allows something to kind of move up to National Register status. Hilda, unmute yourself if you have any other comments to relay. Okay, well, I'm gonna, while we're waiting, I'm gonna open up. Anybody have any unanticipated items? Heidi, I think you had some question about a mass cultural council funding. I think it can be tabled till the next meeting. It's fine, it's not. Oh, I was gonna just say I looked into it, but I actually don't, you know, Amherst has a cultural district that covers the downtown, almost the same boundaries as the business improvement district. Okay. So, I think it's, I don't know how rigorous the application process is, but you know, every year the cultural council is gonna apply to the mass cultural council to receive grants for program, especially for programming and events. And so the Amherst cultural council, cultural district received $15,000. The state did get out $850,000 across the different cultural districts and communities. So they have, you know, it seems like they had a large amount of money this, well, you know, for next, whatever fiscal year they gave the money out. But yeah, Amherst had $15,000. I don't think it's for any necessarily preservation efforts. I think it's more for programming, but I can get, you know, more detail if you want, I just have to reach out to the... That would be great, mate. I was sort of, I had a few things in mind, like wall murals, a number of really amazing pieces of public art we have in town, one of which I know needs to be redone, you know, if it's going to survive, but also maybe programming down the line for things like the Mill River Trail. Obviously I'm jumping the gun at this point, but I'm just curious to learn a bit more about that. Yeah, I think it's really, I mean, I used to manage the national cultural council, the local cultural council up in Greenfield in this grant process. And, you know, so like I said, that's like there's, you know, they had about $14,000 a year, small grants to artists and programming. And it's a great thing for us to know about so that like, for example, when somebody comes to us to, you know, fund a walking tour or something like that, that might be related to preservation, but it isn't direct preservation. That's a great place to be able to point them for funding and to think about things. And I think the Mill River Trail is a great, great part of that too. Like they should be made aware of it so that as things come up that they might need funding for. So, okay. Any other unanticipated items? All right, it is 8.08 p.m. Seeing that Hilda's hand is down, I'm gonna adjourn this meeting. And, oh, actually no way, before we adjourn, we have to schedule for next month. Can we do that over email so we can get Antonia's schedule information? Yeah, actually that's fine. I can send out a poll, but let's get some dates for this group so that I have something to pull with and particularly in terms of what night schedule is. What works well for you, Nate? Well, anything about me that said Mondays, Mondays are good for me, like the 8.08 and 15. Okay, anyone not be able to make the 8.00 to the 15. I am not able to make the 15. That's actually Martin Luther King Day. So I wouldn't either then. We don't have any demolition permits coming down the line right now. Can we schedule for the 8.00 just and have the 15.00 is back up? Or the 9.00? This is a holiday, so. Oh, the 8.00? No, the 15.00 is a holiday. The 9.00, I can't do, I can't do Tuesdays and Wednesdays right now. Okay. And I think that's why we were going for Mondays. Should we try, should I pull for the 8.00 and the 22nd? Yeah. That's not good. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think, oh, sorry, just two, a few quick things. I think Robin, I saw your email, what we're trying to get documentation of the Southeast Street property that was allowed to be demolished. There's the three properties owned by Amir Mikchi that we torn down kind of behind Cumberlands. And so we can get, you know, I was waiting for an email response, Robin, but I'll prompt something tomorrow. Okay. And then I'm also trying to get a site visit to 45 and 55 South Pleasant Street for more documentation. So, you know, any member of the commission could go on that. So I'm hoping we could get something soon. Okay. Great. Okay. So with that, I will adjourn our meeting at 8.11 p.m. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Bye. Thank you, everyone. Take care.