 Welcome to Making Leadership Work on ThinkTech, and I'm your host today, Carol Mon-Lee. Our show is called Women in Law, a Foundation for Community Leadership, and we're going to talk about how one woman has sought the betterment of our community and how you can make a difference in many areas, not just the field you were formerly trained in. If you want to ask a question or participate in the discussion, you can tweet us at ThinkTech H.I. or call us at 808-374-2014. Our guest for today's show is Sherry Broder, my longtime dear friend, who is with the law officers of Sherry Broder. Sherry, a lawyer, has been at the Center of Hawaii's Law Community for years. She has a solo practice, teaches international law at UH Law School, and was the first woman president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. She successfully represented victims of torture against burden on Marcos and families in the Heptacore case. In 2015, the American Bar Association awarded her the Solo and Small Practice Lifetime Achievement Award. Her influence extends far beyond law. She chairs or sits on several boards and committees, both here and on the mainland, including the Hawaii Opera Theater, the Honolulu Zoo, and the East-West Center Foundation. We'll cover her strategy, style, and methods in pursuing the betterment of our community. Welcome to the show, Sherry. Well, thank you, Carol, for the wonderful introduction, and of course it's always a pleasure to spend any time with you, so I'm looking forward to doing this show. Thank you. So we've known each other over 40 years, long time. But during that time, particularly here in Hawaii, I wanted to cover just some of your achievements. So we mentioned that you were the first woman president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. So tell us what year that was, and how many lawyers in the state of Hawaii that meant that you were responsible for guiding. That was in 1993, and I think there were about 4,500 lawyers at that time. There's a lot more today, but at that time there were about 4,500 lawyers. And of course the Bar Association is the professional group for all lawyers in the state of Hawaii. Yes, and in Hawaii we actually have a mandatory bar, which means that all lawyers must belong to the Hawaii State Bar Association. And I see, and what percentage of the bar are women? Then, and do you have an idea of now? Well, you know, I'm not really sure what the percentage of women lawyers are in the state, but certainly the law school, the University of Hawaii Law School, has more than 50% women, and that's generally true across the main line. So the profession is changing. When I first started practicing law in Honolulu, and I was doing litigation, and I would go to court, I wouldn't see anybody else there. And this was in the 70s, right? This was in the 70s, right. And here, among the many organizations you and I have been involved in, you were the second woman president of Hawaii Women Lawyers, second president, right? Right. And following you. We also talked about the ABA Solo Practice Award recently that you received in 2015, and that was amazing. I think we have some slides that we can show about some of your achievements. And Ray, I'm going to ask you if you can load some of those images. So this is a picture of Sherry. Yes. And our dear friend of ours, Professor Sukul Lee from Korea. Yes, so we were at a conference there, and we were both holding up books that we edited. So I did the one that I'm holding, and he did the one that he's holding. And actually, you know, Nila, for that's her in the background. Right. But tell us about the conference, because it's so interesting. Among your many areas of expertise and interest is international law and international ocean law. So was this a conference? What was this conference on? This conference was in Madrid, and it was the law of the C Institute conference that the University of California at Berkeley sponsored along with the Korean Institute of Ocean Science and Technology. And then we had other cooperating institutions, including the John Van Dyke Institute, the East-West Center, and a few other ones. So at that particular conference, I did a presentation on geoengineering. So that's one thing that's being talked about to combat climate change, which is to engineer the climate. So I talked about developing rules in particular at the International Maritime Organization to govern, being able to proceed and do that in areas that are an international jurisdiction outside the jurisdiction in the ocean of a state. Wow. So I know that you teach international ocean law and international law sometimes at the University Law School, UH Law School. Yeah. Right. And you mentioned the John Van Dyke Institute. So can you tell us a little bit about that, because I know you were instrumental in bounding that. Yes. Well, when my late husband, Professor John Van Dyke, passed away, I wanted to see if there would be some way to continue his work in scholarship and teaching. And so we founded the John Van Dyke Institute. And we've been very fortunate to be able to raise funds. We had a huge conference in 2013 in his honor. And that was here in Honolulu. That was here in Honolulu. And we had subject matter areas where international ocean law, rights of native people, environmental law, all things that he was very much interested in, human rights. And that ended up in a publication, the University of Hawaii Law Review, published all the papers from that conference. And the students, they did an absolutely fantastic job. Wayne Wagner and O'Nana Fountain, they were just incredible editors. And then we've done several other conferences. On an annual basis, right? Well, at least one. And some years we've done more than one. Most of the conferences have been related to international ocean law. But we have on occasion included a panel on human rights. So we did one conference with the Korea Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where the whole conference worked around the concept of reconciliation. So we had people talk about the apology resolution here in Hawaii, which calls for reconciliation and the idea of reconciliation between the Japanese and the Koreans over some of the things that happened during the colonial rule of Japan, by Japan of Korea. I know there's an upcoming conference, right? An upcoming JVD conference, JVD Institute Conference. And that's going to be in Fiji? Yes, we're going to do that in Fiji. And that conference was going to be on a sustainable development goal 13 and 14 of the United Nations. So 13 is climate change and 14 is taking better care of the oceans, basically. And so we're going to evolve around that. There was a big meeting in June at the United Nations on these two development goals. And we're going to be following up specifically with that. But the emphasis is going to be on the Pacific. That's why we're meeting in Fiji and East Asia. I see. And I also know you're having to be going to Sweden for a conference, right? I am. And what is that one about? OK, this is another conference being sponsored by the University of California Berkeley Law School. My husband was very active in the Law of the Seat Institute for the 20 years that it was here in Hawaii. And I actually wrote a paper about the activities of the 20 years of the Law of the Seat Institute here. And so we've remained very close to John Van Dijk Institute in the University of California Law School on these conferences. So I'm going to that conference. And the people who have organized it just seem to love my work on geoengineering. Although I've already written on it twice, they've asked me to speak on it again and write on it even one more time. So I've been madly studying up on all the latest happenings in the field of geoengineering, getting ready for the conference. What's so impressive, Sherry, is that your breadth of interest in the law, because in addition to this international ocean law, let's talk a little bit about your involvement in Hawaiian issues and OHA over the years, because you and I served in Con Con many years ago, 1978. And is that where you started your involvement in being counsel for OHA and other things? Well, it predated even that. Because when my husband and I first came to Hawaii, we immediately got involved with Joyce Kainoa. She was our first client. And we defended her for trespassing on Kaholave, trying to stop the bombing of the Navy on Kaholave. So I had already been involved with Native Hawaiian issues, even before we got to Con Con. But I did get a sign at Con Con to the Hawaiian Affairs Committee. And I had the great opportunity to work with Inter-Frenching De Soto and many other Hawaiian Kapunas at that time. And you were there at the birth of OHA then. Right. So I wrote the provisions in the White State Constitution that created OHA. I mean, of course, John Whitehead and Inter-Frenching De Soto and many other delegates. Right. They were the ones with the ideas. We were behind the scenes. Yeah, I was privileged enough to be able to work with them. And you're still doing work for OHA? I still do work for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. And I mentioned in the introduction that you, of course, have also handled two very large class actions. And one is still going on. So can you tell us a little bit about the Fernando, the Marcos case? Yes. Well, I had, when Fernand Marcos came to town in 1986, when he fled the Philippines, I said to my husband, how come he gets to come to our beautiful home, live on the beach, and escape from his own country where he's tortured and murdered people? And I said, can't we sue him? And so my husband, of course, who was into international human rights said, yes, of course. So we went ahead and sued them. We had actually been asked by the Philippine government to participate in their efforts to recover assets here. But we declined because we just really wanted to sue him for violations of human rights. And it's still going on, right? How many years now? It's over 30 years. We got a judgment in 1997. I mean, it took a while because issues went up on appeal. For instance, can you sue somebody in the United States of America representing Filipinos for acts that occurred in the Philippines against a Filipino? But the law has generally developed since World War II that you can sue these dictators, human rights abuses, wherever you can find them. And actually, our case has been cited by the US Supreme Court in three different cases as an example of the kind of case you can do. And so you did get judgments, right? We did get judgments. So what we've been doing since we got our judgments and since they were upheld on appeal is trying to collect on them. We have to tell our audience how big the judgment is. OK, the judgment is $2 billion. $2 billion. But we have collected about $26 million, and we have done two separate distributions in the Philippines. Two of the victims. Two of the victims. Oh, that's a big one. What about the heptachlor case? A lot of us who remember back to the milk, if anybody doesn't, maybe explain to our audience a little bit about the heptachlor case. Well, that case was in 1982. It was announced that there was heptachlor in the milk in Hawaii. And we were supposed to throw all our milk out, all our ice cream and everything. Insecticide? It's an insecticide, and it kills ants by destroying their nervous system. But it got into our milk products. So actually, it had been outlawed at other places all across the United States, because it had been used generally on tomatoes and corn and other things. And it had been found to bio-cumulate in the milk, because on the mainland, they do the same thing that they were doing here, which is they take all the leftover parts to the corn or the leftover parts to the tomato, and they grind it up and feed it to the cows. So they were grinding up all those terrible green leaves with all the prickles on them. And of the pineapple and feeding them to the cows. But the APA had allowed them to continue to use it on pineapples, because the claim was being made that it didn't bio-cumulate. But of course it was. And so how much was that judgment? That one was $4 million. Wow, OK. Well, we're at the point where we're going to actually take a short break and get back to some more of Sherry Broder with me talking about leadership and her many accomplishments, not just as a lawyer in the state of Hawaii and beyond, but also in the community. We'll be right back. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, empower, and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. And we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. Welcome back. This is Carol Mann-Lee with my guest Sherry Broder. We're talking about making leadership work in Hawaii. And we've been talking in the first half about Sherry's, I'll have to say, the word brilliant career in law. So let's pick up a couple of more slides, and I wanted to show the audience. So this is a group picture of Sherry and several people. And Sherry, can you describe for our audience? That's a picture that was taken at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel, and it was, we had a conference. And this was the year that I was president of Federal Bar Association. And we had many different speakers on different topics and everything. So there's a group of people who participated in the conference. We tried to help the lawyers have the highest standard of practice. Right. So again, so that was you were president. Among the many organizations Sherry was the Federal Bar Association, because she had previously been president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. And we have another picture, right? Another image. And this is an image, again, Sherry holding an award. Right, that I received the first Cox Price Award from the University of Denver Law School for my work on human rights. Right, and I know you sit on the Nanda Center for International Law in Denver. Yeah, so I sit on the board. But at that time, I wasn't sitting on the board yet. I didn't want you to think there was any insight. No, no. OK, and one more picture we have. And this was more recently in 2015, and that's Sherry wearing beautiful lei with Leighton Oshima, who's also wearing lei. And what is this picture? So Leighton and I both were awarded the American Bar Association Solo and Small Practice Lifetime Achievement Award, so it's very nice. I was awarded the initial American Bar Association Award in 1993. So that was just for, I don't know, being a younger lawyer and working on things. And then this one is the Lifetime Achievement Award. All right, so this is the whole bar association, all the states, and they identified you as the award winner for that year, 2015. So congratulations, Sherry. Thank you. Well, let's get into, as our audience can tell, Sherry's interest and achievements in law have been outstanding. But I know you from so many other ways in your involvement in other community activities. For instance, we mentioned you're on the board of the Honolulu Zoo, the Hawaii Opera Theater, and East West Center Foundation Board. So tell us a little bit about what motivates you to get involved in community activities beyond law and taking the leadership role in actually sitting on boards and bringing your expertise, I know, to those boards. Well, I think it's very important to be involved in the community and to give back. And certainly, I've been very fortunate here to be able to have my own business and to participate in the community. And I really like to give back. It's a great feeling to be able to help other people. So I'm on the board of the zoo because, well, of course, I represented Rusty the orangutan. Rusty, one of your clients. He's one of my clients, yes. So I'm not into human rights only for people, but also for animals. And so I... Thank you. On behalf of the animals, as I sit here with my dog. I love animals. Well, so I work to get Rusty a new home at the Honolulu Zoo. And I urge everybody to go down and see his beautiful orangutan habitat. He has the only tree in his habitat for any orangutan in the United States, which is very important because they're actually arboreal creatures. They make a big nest just like a bird does and they like to live it up in the tree in the nest. So I wanted to help the zoo. And so I'm on the board. They need your help. Right, yes. So yeah, so we've had a lot of struggles and issues in the last few years, but I think that we're really moving in the right direction and I'm hoping that we'll be able to get accreditation back for the zoo. Well, on behalf of animal lovers everywhere, we thank you for your work. Oh, thank you. So let's see, the East-West Center Foundation. Okay, so I'm very interested in the East-West Center and I really wanted to support it. My husband was an adjunct research fellow there for 35 years. And that was one of the main ways in which he participated in international law conferences in the early years he met people who today are judges on the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea and they had studied at the East-West Center. I think the East-West Center really provides an important role for our country, not just our community here in Hawaii, but for our whole country. You know, the idea of international dialogue and exchanges of ideas is such a great idea and the East-West Center, I think, is just a real diamond. And it perfectly meshes with your interest in international law and John's interest in international law. And how about the Hawaii Opera Theatre? Do you like opera? I love the opera. Do you sing? I don't sing, but I love the opera. I mean, I've been known to stop in New York City just so that I can go to the Metropolitan Opera, which is, of course, my absolute favorite. I've been to the opera in Europe in different places, too. So I love the opera and, of course, the opera is another institution that really needs help. You know, our younger people aren't so interested in the opera and in Honolulu it's very difficult to make ends meet for the opera. So it's a constant battle for fun. So I would say those three institutions, then I'm on the boards that I'm on, they all, you know, fundraising is a very important part of the contribution that we make, the efforts that we do to raise money for the institution. And unless anyone thinks that's all that Sherry's been working on, there's been so many other organizations and community groups, including Hawaii Apple Sea, which represents people who need legal and other services, including homeless. But let's talk about generally, over the years, your experience in moving up the ladder, basically, as a woman. Have you experienced gender discrimination? Did you find that those were, you said you had, we know you have a solo practice, a law firm, just with you, so you get so much independence, but also hard work, it's all on you, right? So, but as a lawyer and as a community volunteer, have you experienced types of leadership or discrimination that would help our audience understand better what they can do? Well, I don't think there's any question, but this discrimination against women in the economic workforce is a very persistent and as yet still completely unsolved problem. I mean, you know, when you and I started out practicing law, there weren't very many women, but you know, as we looked around, you know, women were making basically 70 cents on the dollar of what a man makes. And you know, it's really shocking to think that today, it's basically still the same. And if we look at women in the law in particular, there was just an article today in the New York Times discussing the fact that although women now make up more than 50% of law school students. And it's been that way for many, many decades actually, for a few decades. So, but when it comes to being a partner in a big law firm, you know, especially on the mainland, so what you wanna do if you go to those big law firms is you wanna become an equity partner because then you get to share in the profits of the law firm. And that's when you really make the big money. But only 20% of the equity partners in the big law firms, the 300 biggest law firms in the United States are equity partner women. So you can see that it's still the same. When I first started practicing law and I would go to court to litigate cases as I was telling you before, you know, there weren't any men there. But now when I go to court and I'm litigating cases, there are some women there. And women judges too. And the women judges too. Yeah. Pretty good. Pretty good. But still, I think, you know, I don't know if that's self-selection by women that they don't want to get involved in litigation because it is a very stressful and very difficult to add some incredible time commitment. But I think the bottom line is, you know, are women gonna be able to make the same in the workplace as men? And so far, they're not. They're not. So you and I formed Hawaii Women Lawyers because of that. You know, that was way back in the 70s. And we thought, okay, we're gonna make a big difference. And in those days, there wasn't one woman trial judge, Marie Milk, became the first one. And then finally, Lee Crandall got a trial judge position. But, and there had only been one woman on the Hawaii Supreme Court, Rhoda Lewis. Do you see many women in board positions now? You sit on so many different boards. But your boards are all non-profit. So I think we see a lot of women in the non-profit community. I don't think there's a dearth of them in the non-profit community. But on the corporate boards that pay the bucks, still it's a very low representation of women. Yes, and I think even here in Hawaii, you know, there are some women who are on, you know, chairs or CEOs of the big corporations. But for the most part, that's unusual. So what kind of advice would you give to the next generation of women who are coming up who want to make a difference in the community like you have? I mean, are there, is it education? Is it family values? Is it what do you think would be something that they could focus on? Well, I think you have to kind of decide, you know, what you wanna do. And I think I've been very fortunate because I've been able to have my own business all these 40 years. And that's given me the freedom to do cases like the Marcos human rights litigation. You know, if you work for a big firm, they're not gonna wanna make that kind of investment in time and everything. So, but there's a lot of opportunities to do things in the, you know, private sector and for organizations that do good. You know, in Hawaii, we have some very serious problems. Homelessness is a terrible problem there. Economic inequity is a terrible problem. The use of resources, land and water, you know, whites change so much in 40 years. And I don't think it's going in a good direction. So there's so many things that people can do to either help other people or help the community at large. And I think that if you volunteer to help, you will find that it's very rewarding. Good, well, thank you. I want to say that your role in not just fighting justice and helping our community is also balanced in case our audience wonders with very strong family values and very strong commitment to having you have three children and an important part of your life is your friends and your family. So on that note, I want to thank Sherri Broder who has been a role model for many of us. Who's been a leader in the community, both in the law community and the community at large. And so on behalf of St. Tech, this brings us to the end of the show. I'm your host, Caroline Lee, our guest has been Sherri Broder. Loft is a Sherri Broder. And we've been talking about women in law, a foundation for community leadership and how you can make a difference in many years, not just the field you were formerly trained in. Thanks to our production engineer, Ray Sangalong and floor manager, Robert McLean, and all the people who care and contribute to our St. Tech production. So if you do want to see our show, please go to thinktecawaii.com or youtube.com, slash thinktecawaii, where there'll be shows like this and others. Thank you for watching and we'll see you next time. Aloha.