 My name is Stephanie Sannick-Costrow. I'm the acting director of the Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Program here at CSIS. And I want to thank you all for being here this morning for a very important discussion. I want to extend, before we begin, I want to extend our thanks also to General Dynamics for sponsoring both this event and the report and the study that is underpinning it. And as a reminder, this discussion is on the record. Given India's rapid economic, political, and military developments in recent years, the nation there is poised to play an increasingly vital role in South Asia and international stability and security. In 2012, CSIS launched a series of reports examining U.S.-India Security and Defense Cooperation as a means to explore how the U.S. and India can work together to ensure stability. Following the release of two reports by our colleagues with the CSIS-Wadwani Chair in U.S.-India Policy Studies, and we've got Ambassador Rick Interferth here in the front row. So thank you, sir, for being here. But those reports examined military engagement and bilateral defense trade. We are pleased to launch the final report in this series. This latest study focused on Homeland Security Cooperation between U.S. and India. While the report specifically focuses on the challenges and opportunities associated with transportation security, the U.S. and India confront a broad array of Homeland Security issues for which increased cooperation might prove beneficial. To discuss the threats facing the two nations, the current state of U.S.-India Homeland Security Cooperation, and the challenges and opportunities for future cooperation, I welcome today our panel of experts who come from across government, industry, and academia. I will note that officials from the Indian Embassy had planned to be here today, but unfortunately due to schedules and I guess a bit of high-level turnover in their embassy here, they weren't able to join us today. First, we are pleased to have with us Dr. Steven Tenkel, Assistant Professor at American University and non-resident scholar in the South Asia program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Steven brings with him extensive experience on terrorism, insurgency, and political military affairs in South Asia, and is the author of Storming the World Stage, the story of L.E.T. We're also pleased to welcome Joanna Hurlbert, who serves as the South Asian Oceana Regional Analyst in DHS's Office of International Affairs. She advises department leadership on international policy and engagement with the Asia Pacific. She coordinates international policy and engagement with other U.S. agencies and always tackling the interagency here in D.C. might be more difficult than dealing with our international partners. And she coordinates DHS component activities with their foreign partners. Furthermore, she's played an active and important role in the U.S.-India Homeland Security Dialogue, the second round of which just concluded, not colluded, this past May. I am woefully undercaffeinated, so please bear with me this morning. Finally, we are joined by former CSIS Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Program, my predecessor, Rick Ozzie Nelson, who directed the report being released today. Ozzie is currently the vice president for global business development at CrossMatch Technologies and maintains an affiliation with our program here at CSIS. Steven Joanna Ozzie, thank you for joining us today. Steven, why don't we begin with you for an assessment of the international security threats facing India and those facing the United States? We'll then turn to Joanna for a discussion of the current state of U.S.-India Homeland Security Cooperation. Finally, we'll turn to Ozzie for a discussion of the actual report being released today. And following these remarks, there will be time for Q&A. So please, Steven. Good morning. Stephanie, thank you for the kind introduction. Thank you to CSIS for inviting me here to help launch an excellent report. I have the easy part of the panel. I just talk about the threats that the countries face, which will be well known to many of you. And then Joanna and Ozzie have to talk about how to actually confront those threats, which is a much more robust challenge. India and the US, of course, share much in common that is good. Unfortunately, they also share some things which are not so good, including specific terrorist threats. And this is certainly true in terms of the types of targets that both countries worry about. And I thought in this regard that the report's focus on transportation is particularly welcome, given the importance of this sector to both economies. And I thought the report did an excellent job of outlining the importance of air and rail, particularly in India. The history of bombings against various forms of mass transit in India, our own concerns here, of course, about threats not just to aviation, but also to rail with Najibullah Ozzie in the attempt that it attacks several years ago in the New York Subway and the maritime incursion that initiated the 2008 Mumbai attacks by Lashgri Tyba. Of course, in addition to the types of targets that both countries are concerned about, they also face shared, although, asymmetrical threats from several groups. The Pakistani militant group Lashgri Tyba undoubtedly poses the greatest terrorist threat to India. However, it's an organization of growing concern to the US as well for several reasons. First, LET is viewed as posing a direct terrorist threat to US civilians in South Asia, specifically India. It killed American citizens during the 2008 Mumbai attacks and targeted foreigners in 2010 when one of its members bombed the German bakery in Pune. Here I should note that for that attack, Lashgri Tyba worked with the Indian Mujahidin, sometimes seen as an indigenous affiliate of theirs. It's one that is far more lethal as a result of LET and Pakistani support, and it's another manifestation of the Jihadist threat that is of growing concern to the US in terms of potential attacks on US interests in the region. Second, less likely but arguably of greater concern is the possibility of an LET-led or supported attack against the US homeland. And so here I think in particular, there's much that the two countries can learn from another, and it's an area that is right for exploration in terms of cooperation. Third, US policymakers worry about the possibility that another terrorist spectacular, like the 2008 Mumbai attacks, could trigger a conflict between India and Pakistan. That's not a direct terrorist threat to the US, but I would argue it's actually the greatest threat that both countries face. A, because it's the most likely, but B, because even though it might not lead for the US to a direct loss of US lives, it could have severe consequences for American interests in the region. Now, Al Qaeda Central and its affiliates, especially AQAP and Yemen, continue to monopolize US attention when it comes to direct terrorist threats against our homeland. And just as LET poses an emerging threat to the US, Al Qaeda Central may present a horizon threat for India. It has added a number of Pakistani members who bring with them their own biases for who the bad guys are, right? The presumably deceased Ilias Kashmiri, a name that may be familiar to some of you, is a case in point. He was a Pakistani militant who joined Al Qaeda. He initially claimed credit for the German bakery attack. And though AQ is not responsible for that attack, we know that Kashmiri, as part of AQ, ordered reconnaissance on other Indian targets as well. And he might be dead, but that information is probably floating around. There are a number of other militant threats emanating from Pakistan that I could mention. And of course, the two countries face a range of other threats that are all their own. Naxalites in India, right wing and a left wing, extremists here in the US. Rather than run through all of these, because I know my time is limited, I wanna conclude with a few brief thoughts on the importance of cooperation between the two countries to sort of tee off Joanna's comments. I had the honor of testifying on the hill not too long ago about the militant threat to the US from South Asia. And one of the recommendations that I made was to find ways in which the two countries could accelerate counter-terrorism cooperation. And provided that homeland security cooperation is a means of augmenting rather than placing the existing counter-terrorism cooperation that is already in place, I think that this is an excellent way of driving that process forward. And again, I think this is one of the reasons why this report is so valuable is because of the way in which it lays out that cooperation, it is designed to augment existing processes and programs that are always in place and to deepen cooperation that is already extant. Moreover, as should be obvious, India and the US are concerned about some of the same actors and there's much that the two can learn from one another. Let me conclude just with a brief remark from a purely US perspective about why I see homeland security as being in America's interests. First, overwhelmingly really, it's in our interest that India is secure because it's an important ally and will continue to be an important ally going forward and we want to do everything we can to encourage and facilitate its continued growth. Secondly, as I've alluded to because of the presence of US interests in South Asia including US civilians. Third, because we don't want to see an India-Pakistan war. And finally, because fortifying the Indian homeland reduces the utility for Pakistan to support some of its proxies and reducing that utility is an important part of changing Pakistan's calculus regarding the militant infrastructure on its soil which is something that the US is particularly keen to do. So across a whole range of areas, deep and homeland security cooperation is gonna be essential to combating these varied threats. And let me stop there and let Joanna talk about what that cooperation is looking like. Thank you, Steven. Joanna. Thank you. That was an excellent introduction to the threat environment in both countries. I think it sets it up good for the remarks that I'll make today. Thank you and good morning. It's a pleasure to be here. I'd like to thank CSIS for organizing this event into my colleagues in both the US and Indian governments for investing in the time and resources into this important bilateral relationship. I see a lot of familiar faces in the audience and know that many of you in the room have long been advocates and indeed active participants in the rapid transformation of US-India relations over the past 10 to 15 years. Back to when DHS as an organization didn't even exist. While general cooperation in the homeland security context between the US and India extends several years back, the institutionalization of our relationship dates to May 2011 when Secretary Napolitano and then Home Affairs Minister Chidambram kicked off the first US-India Homeland Security Dialogue in New Delhi, India. This dialogue, the working groups established and the joint statement issued codified the relationship between the Department of Homeland Security and the Ministry of Home Affairs into a framework that gave us a platform to identify areas of mutual concern and mutual cooperation, provided a forum to discuss common challenges and establish a mechanism through which to share best practices in overcoming those challenges. That we've had such a robust discussion on the topic of homeland security cooperation in such a short amount of time is a testament to the promise of the relationship but also highlights the fact that there is still a great deal of room for shaping and continued growth. Today I will do three things. First, discuss the strategic rationale for US-India Homeland Security Cooperation, as Stephen alluded to. For many, the idea of international engagement for an organization focusing on domestic security may seem a contradiction in terms. Second, I will summarize the current state of Homeland Security Cooperation between the US and India, focusing specifically on transportation sector security as that's the topic of today's panel. And third, I'll outline our policy vision and areas for future cooperation going forward and identify a few key necessary steps required to achieve that vision. So first, like I said, I'd like to take a step back for a moment and discuss the strategic importance of international engagement for an agency focused on homeland that is domestic security. There are two goals that pretty much every nation and state have in common and the US and India are no exception. The goal of first, ensuring a safe and secure homeland and second, the goal for fostering a prosperous and resilient population. Homeland security starts abroad because increasing the safety and security of one country relies on and can increase the security of all. Sharing lessons learned of one country that has become more able to respond quickly and efficiently to natural disasters to minimize the loss of life and damage to property makes all countries better able to respond domestically and better able to assist their neighbors. One country's improved ability to prevent, detect and respond to acts of ideologically motivated violence contributes again to the safety of all. And so aside from supporting broader overarching initiatives to contribute to closer ties with partner nations, aside from President Obama's stated commitment to the relationship with India and aside from cross US government contribution to formal bilateral structures of cooperation like the US India strategic dialogue, the fourth of which took place just this past June, aside from all these things, the relationship between the Indian Ministry of Home Affairs and the Department of Homeland Security is also a desire for DHS to fulfill its mission of continually working toward a safer and more secure homeland. And India's reciprocal engagement is a mirror image of that goal. So under this strategic framework, I will discuss more concretely where we're at in the relationship and where we're going. So as I mentioned, while the US and India have been cooperating on Homeland Security issues for some years, the first Homeland Security dialogue in May of 2011 did a great deal to codify our strategic relationship and identify mutual goals moving forward. The joint statements issued at the Homeland Security Dialogue first in 2011 and in 2013 are both foundational documents for our bilateral Homeland Security relationship. They describe our shared strategic interests, the types of activities we will strive to accomplish together and the structure for managing our relationship. As such, the Homeland Security Dialogue is organized through six subgroups which collectively cover our spectrum of Homeland Security engagement. Those six subgroups are in alphabetical order, capacity building, countering illicit finance, cybersecurity and critical infrastructure protection, global supply chain transportation, port, border and maritime security, mega city policing and science and technology upgradeation. In the interest of time and because this panel is focused on transportation sector security, I'll primarily focus on initiatives through the global supply chain and cybersecurity critical infrastructure protection subgroups. But if anyone has additional questions about the other subgroups, I'd be happy to answer those in the question and answer period. So I'll start with the global supply chain, transportation, port, border and maritime security subgroup. Aside from being a mouthful, the DHS components that play the largest role in this work streams are Customs and Border Protection or CBP, Transportation Security Administration or TSA and the United States Coast Guard. CBP has been engaging in capacity building and technical assistance of border security related assistance for Indian Customs. This engagement began with a border security assessment conducted in September of 2011 and has included air, rail and sea border interdiction security operations, radiation detection, integrity, express consignment and mail breach enforcement training. CBP has conducted trainings on targeting and risk management seminars and international rail, border and sea interdiction training to compliment these engagements and part of our interagency effort, the Department of Energy also sponsored commodity interdiction training. Currently, we're working to follow on from those initial training sessions with more advanced specialized trainings which are yet to be determined but could include hazmat operations, X-ray interdiction, maintaining integrity of the global environment or host of other categories. Regarding aviation security, especially since August 2012, our relationship has really taken off, so to speak. The DHS, Transportation Security Administration continues to engage significantly with the Government of India, especially the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security, BCAS and the Ministry of Civil Aviation, MOCA, on multiple aviation security issues. In September 2011, the TSA Office of Global Strategies conducted airport assessments in air carrier inspections. They conducted an aviation cooperation program security workshop in March 2013, held their first reciprocal visit to the United States in June 2013 at Newark International and New York's JFK airports and held an engagement on reviewing and assessing whole baggage security detection capability and configuration. This marks significant progress in our relationship with aviation security. On port and maritime security, the US Coast Guard team from the International Port Security Program inspected four Indian ports in June 2012 and hosted the Indian Ministry for Shipping for a reciprocal visit to the US Coast Guard headquarters and sector in New York. Additionally, Indian Coast Guard members regularly attend US Coast Guard provided courses and trainings. Moving on to cybersecurity and critical infrastructure protection. While there's a larger framework for US India engagement and cybersecurity that expands beyond the scope of DHS, namely the US India Cyber Dialogue, DHS plays an important role in the US government's engagement with India through the Homeland Security Dialogue subgroup on cybersecurity and critical infrastructure protection. The DHS National Protection and Programs Directorate, Office of Cybersecurity and Communication or CSNC has a robust and ongoing cybersecurity relationship with the government of India. India and the US signed a memorandum of understanding promoting operational cooperation and providing the framework for future engagements between our respective computer emergency response teams or CERTs. Now interaction engagement between US CERT and CERT India has become not only established but routine and since August 2011, our subject matter experts have engaged in ongoing dialogue, building collaboration and sharing best practices. We held our first bilateral cybersecurity tabletop exercise last fall from which both sides greatly benefited. The DHS has supported and will continue to support India's participation in international fora such as the Meridian Process and Conference at which the director of CERT India, Dr. Gulshan Rai delivered a keynote address in 2012. The Data Security Council of India recently launched the Indian edition of the Stop, Think, Connect campaign to help all digital citizens stay safer and more secure online. In addition, a new avenue of engagement that we're only beginning to pursue this year is training and exchanging the best practices on cyber, financial fraud and protection of national, financial and banking critical infrastructure through United States Secret Service. So moving on to our policy vision for the future and the best way to build from today. Looking ahead, there are several new areas in which we can expand engagement in the coming years. India recently released their new cyber strategy on July 2nd, which may open the door for new and innovative ways in which we can collaborate. Engaging on common challenges such as, as we mentioned, cyber, financial fraud and protection of national, financial and banking infrastructure. Cyber forensics and investigations and sharing our experiences in dealing with malware and viruses are all areas for collaboration that will enhance both countries' abilities to counter these new and emerging common challenges. The area of biodefense in which is one in which we may explore engaging at some point in the future and we contribute greatly to our mutual ability to prepare for and respond to the spread of dangerous diseases or other biohazards. Sharing our experiences and best practices in preparing for and responding to natural disasters will be an area in which we will always have new challenges, issues and approaches to discuss. Strategically, the long-term vision for the U.S. Homeland Security relationship is fairly well articulated in the two U.S. India Homeland Security dialogue joint statements. The broad strokes for our lines of effort articulated in those statements are strategically enduring because I stated at the beginning for both countries the long-term strategic goal as well as the daily mandate for both of our agencies is the same. We have built a strong foundation for cooperation between DHS and MHA because our mutual interests have brought us together and shown the benefit of cooperation. Over the past three years, our relationship has already moved beyond ad hoc cooperation to routine interaction and has set the stage for a relationship built on trust, understanding and mutual cooperation for mutual benefit. However, this is a relationship that will continue to require significant commitment on both sides. Bureaucratic processes will continue to be a challenge for both of us. Working together in an increasingly fiscally constrained environment will require careful prioritization and creative thinking. In the longer term, as our relationship matures over the coming years, expanding cooperation through formal mechanisms will be required in order to break through the otherwise inevitable glass ceiling of engagement. Concluding pending information sharing agreements will open additional avenues for more meaningful and substantive engagement to the benefit of both of our nations. The more that we can put in place these formal structures now, the better equipped we will be able to work together when an emergency occurs and we do not have the leisure of time. In many ways, where our bilateral relationship on Homeland Security cooperation goes in the future will depend on the changing environment and emerging challenges. The nature of security is that challenges are not static but are ever-evolving. And yet, despite the uncertainty of the landscape before us with continued engagement and commitment on both sides, we are laying the groundwork so that both nations can ensure that our homelands are safe, secure, and resilient regardless of the challenges that we will face. Thank you. Thank you very much, Joanna. Ozzy? Thank you very much for having me back at CSIS. I'm glad I'm still welcome here. Although this is, I think this is the last project I left the group, so I appreciate you guys finishing it up for us. And it was a great project to end on for my time at CSIS. I really enjoyed working on this and I want to just take time to thank the other co-authors, particularly Mel Hirsch and Brianna and Rob Wise and Allie Pregelman who helped to do a lot of the work after I left. So I really appreciated that. Although I did lose a little bit of the power of the pen once I walked out the door. So that's the disadvantage of leaving. Very excited about how this turned out and that we thought we really got into some of the details with the transportation. When we figured out how do we want to address the Homeland Security Cooperation issue with India? It's obviously a very large issue, but we figured we didn't want this to be a one way study which we in the US sometimes fall into that trap and how can we help our partners? When you're talking about a country it was massive in size and geography massive in size of population who has a lot more experience with Homeland Security than we do. It's got to be, as Joanna pointed out, a bilateral mutual exchange. So we try to pick areas where we thought that could best occur and that's obviously in the transportation sector with the rail and the aviation and the maritime where there's lessons to learn that we can get from India and India can gain from us. Before I move forward to some of those specific industries I do want to talk about the challenges of India and I am not an India expert. I spent some last two years doing a couple studies on India so I got immersed in India in that last year, last couple years. So this comes from someone with a new perspective in engaging the country. Some of the things that I think will affect not only government to government relations but business to government or business to business relationship with India is what I'm going to touch on here. Because we also looked at this from a perspective we know we have a lot of US industries that come and say, can you give us some advice on how best to engage India? Give us your perspectives. And some of the answers that we give them based on the study are dissatisfying and we'll get into those as well. But what's so unique about India, in addition to its size and its culture is the socioeconomic pressure is that it's under right now. To say it, 1.2 billion people and people talk about it's a brick and it's a rising nation and it has the fifth largest number of billionaires in the world. They still have 840 million people that live on less than $2 a day. They still have, by their own numbers, 30% of the population is living at the poverty level. That's massive. But that does provide an interesting opportunity for success because at the same time, their poverty level is looking at declining down to about 20% in the next five years. So the pace, even though some people may look into India and say it's a slow-moving country, their socioeconomic dynamics are actually very fast-moving. And that fast-moving socioeconomic environment provides opportunity for us. And it's an interesting dichotomy when you're talking business to business with them. For example, on one issue we talked a lot about, companies are interested in selling technologies to India. Well, at the same time, technologies may not be the solution when the company, a country that's so rich in human capital, human resources. Those of you that have traveled India, obviously many of you in the room, know that everyone gets a pat down at the airport. Just because, one, it's the safest way to go. You get pat down, you're pretty confident about what somebody's caring. But that is probably the most economically efficient way for them to conduct airport security at this point. Plus it gets people employed and it helps them lift their poverty level up. At the same time, though, India gives us an opportunity to leapfrog technologically. So that same thing that may hold them back is also something that gives us abilities. For example, the cell phones, people that were trying, companies that were trying to sell a regular phone technology to India failed. The people that were successful were the people that came in and said, we're not gonna give everyone in India a telephone, we're gonna give them a mobile device. And the mobile market in India is phenomenal. So that's what's really kind of interesting. I found very unique about this opportunity. So how from a Homeland Security perspective, do we bridge that gap? How do we utilize or learn from that socioeconomic dynamic that's underway in India that's moving actually quite rapidly, even though from a business perspective, it may seem slow. So back to the business point and from a Homeland Security perspective, where I think that industry gets dissatisfied with the answers about India, is that one of the biggest challenges, and we had that in the United States as well, we share that in India and working with India in a coordination is bureaucratic. A lot of the problems and things to address, it's not a new technology solution, it may not be better coordination. It's internal Indian bureaucratic structures and organizations. Inside the United States, we struggle a lot with our relationship with our state and the federal government. What happens in India pales in comparison with what happens in India. You have to deal and address the states on almost a bilateral basis, just as you deal with the countries, the center government. And that affects how technology is purchased. That affects cooperation, not only in how India does it internally, who responds to a crisis, as we saw with Mumbai, which is the one that everyone kind of goes back and refers to just because of the magnitude of it, but how they manage their security and their rail. The rail system, which goes across the entire country, is at a state responsibility, is at a center responsibility. And that's an internal dynamic that one there was struggling to address, but we, when we engage them bilaterally, it's something that we have to deal with as well. The other one is the issue of technology that I got addressed. Technology isn't always a solution in India, but it can be an opportunity to get new technologies in that we in the United States can't take on because we're hindered by our adherence to legacy systems and legacy thoughts. That's an interesting dynamic that sometimes I think industry finds dissatisfied. And then the last one is that the way that we view transportation inside the United States is very different than the way India views it. For us, we are an aviation-centric passenger environment by far, and maritime from goods and from service, from goods, secondly. In India, it is all about the railways and the rail. That's the passenger, that's the way a lot of their goods move. Now, 95% of their trade obviously comes in through the ports, so we share that, and that's when Joanna talks about what's happening at DHS, why the maritime environment is such a critical environment for us to coordinate on because we're probably most alike in the maritime environment. But when it comes to aviation and rail, we're very different. And so there's a lot, I get a question a lot when I was in this program, how vulnerable is our rail system? Well, India deals with the vulnerability to our rail system every single day. They had this array of threats to us that we look at very specifically from a Pakistan or an al-Qaeda perspective, to Prime Minister Singh while back said that the biggest threat to India is the malice threat, is a noxial threat. So that's how they view it. And those are the types of entities that are blowing up the railroads and disrupting the rails. That's their priority. If we approach them and say, you need to stop a bomber from getting on an airplane when the Prime Minister says, the number one threat is from an internal insurgency, you have a difficult time focusing your coordination and your cooperation. And I think understanding that problem set and those challenges is critical. And obviously the Department of Homeland Security and DOD are making large steps in this direction, but I think it's important to look at that. Now I wanna go ahead and just jump on to really quickly into some of the specific aspects and talk about, and this is all in the report, but again, with rail, we talk about how big is rail in India? You know, 20 million passengers per day take the train in India. That's just a staggering number of individuals. And again, what's interesting is it crosses all the different state jurisdictions. The rail, the Indian rail is the fifth largest employer in the world, the fifth largest employer in the world. And it's actually larger than the Indian Armed Forces. So again, if you wanna engage and have a Homeland Security dialogue with India, you have to talk about rail and you have to talk about those structures. You can't lead with aviation, in my opinion. Go into the air thing. The air is an interesting opportunity for increased coordination. It's something that the US has spent an incredible amount of time and energy on and re-evaluating our own aviation infrastructure and our own aviation security. But with India and developing a stable and secure system, it doesn't necessarily mean a more secure infrastructure. It means a more robust infrastructure, a stronger infrastructure, of which security is but one part of it. We have a very robust aviation security infrastructure inside the United States, and our security was lacking. In India, I would argue, it's almost the other way around. Their own estimates of their 454 domestic airports, and this is all in the report, only 80 or 90% of them were declared to be operational by Indian standards. But in the last 10 years, their domestic air travel has increased 460%, and they're gonna see a tripling of it by 2020. It's an infrastructure problem, not a security problem. But building a resilient infrastructure, something that we in the United States are working on and have worked on, is something where we can share with India, where we can help them build their infrastructure based on lessons learned, or we can maybe make those technological advances, things that we have difficult time implementing in the United States, that India can adopt because they don't have a lot of the existing infrastructure with the technology that we have. And it's also, with the air system as well, and with the rail, it's a human capital issue. It's not, it's a training, and I don't like the word education, but that's what we're using in the United States. It's a training and education issue. It's how do we share our insights in training and educating both sides on the best security practices? Again, the internal security threats that Steve pointed out that India faces are very different than the threats we're facing, but the best practices that they're implementing are something that we can learn from. There is a lot of information there. And so how do we share the training and the education on both sides? Not just, you know, military is very good at this, doing it at the war colleges, but there's other types of training education. So the bilateral relationship with India from Homeland Security Cooperation might come, not come in the terms, again, of selling a technology to India. It may come in sharing a training program. We're doing cooperative type in things. And the last thing is the one where I pointed out and where Joanna really, DHS and DOD is doing a lot on is the maritime environment. You know, one trillion of trade goes through the Indian ports, 95% by volume. But, you know, we in the United States have made a lot of steps in the last 10 years, last 20 years to really integrate our Coast Guard into our military defense, Department of Defense. In fact, the Coast Guard has been elevated, I think, dramatically since 9-11 in status and stature inside the United States, although I continually complain about its budget being too low. In India, that is a great challenge. The chasm, I would call it, between the Indian Coast Guard and the Indian Navy is massive, in my opinion. And while our Coast Guard is doing a lot of jobs and we have a lot of initiatives in trying to expand that relationship, the maritime issue inside India really is an internal issue. And how does the Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard cooperate better? So what we can do from a U.S. perspective and what we can get from them, as Steve pointed out, it's information sharing, it's the coordination. It's what has worked for us. How has our National Counterterrorism Center worked? How have our maritime defense zones worked? Is that something that India wants to work? At the same time, you know, having those bilateral relations and those communications with the Indian Navy and with the Indian Coast Guard, they have access to an incredible amount of information. And again, with the same maritime trade conundrum that we have. You know, our ports are no better in many ways than India's port. Ask the folks to try to move goods in and out of India. I mean, in and out of Long Beach. L.A. Long Beach would take seven days to offload goods. So there are always things that we can learn from the maritime environment. So going forward, what does this mean? What we can do. For our focuses, I think it need to be for the solutions on this. And Joanna, you know, she joked earlier on, she's like, oh, those are great recommendations, but we're already doing a lot of that. And as someone who was a scholar here at CSI, she liked to hear that because you're like, huh, okay, I got it right. But maybe I just let the Department of Homeland Security's homepage and took all those down. But no, it's good that the DHS is doing this. And I actually, when I commend the department, I believe the Secretary of the Voletano unveiled the Homeland Security Dialogue here at CSI as a couple years ago and announced that. And I think it's been a very fruitful focal point for that cooperation. So I think where we put in the recommendations is one, obviously, the technology issue is huge in India, with our partnership with India. And again, it's not selling the Indians' technological, our equipment. That's not what it's about. It's a mutually beneficial thing, is how perhaps the way that India is able to adopt technology in a way that we can't in the United States, how can we in the U.S. learn from that and not necessarily profit from that? And how in India can we devise solutions as well that are affordable and inexpensive that they can implement on a wide scale? And this is not necessarily a government-to-government relationship. It's a little bit difficult because of some of the institutions in India, but that's something we have to learn to deal with, is how does business adapt to that model? It's a lot of the, I get a lot of talk to a lot of the defense contractors and Homeland Security companies that are frustrated by the business dynamic in India. But that's part of the investment. The reward and the payoff is significant and huge because India is going to be a growth country, but it takes patience. It takes an understanding of the dynamics there. It takes the understanding of the balance between the center and the state governments. And it takes public and private partnerships, which the department is a huge fan of. We need to continue to pursue in that cooperation from a technological standpoint. The second issue where I think there's cooperation I've already touched on is the human capital issue. And again, it's not a one-way we're gonna train the Indians. It's a mutual thing. There are things that they are learning. There are threats that they are dealing with that we can learn from and we can adapt our systems to as well. But for companies that are looking to exchange into looking to build a business and build relationships in there, that's where it may start. Say, oh, that is don't give the customer what you want to give the customer, give the customer what they want and what they need and the problem they're looking to address. And the problem they're looking to address may not be the next great sensor. It may be I need to get my workforce all trained and equipped appropriately so that they can serve in those positions. And then the last one, which we can never have enough of is information sharing. India is its homeland security, its interior and its intelligence services and that's intelligence information but there's also general information sharing. They have massive amounts of it. They're struggling internally to figure out how they're gonna have their own National Counterterrorism Center work and how they're gonna exchange information internally. But that shouldn't be a hindrance for the United States pursuing that relationship. And as Joanna pointed out, we're doing that. It may require relationships at the state level. It may require relationships at the center level. But at the end of the day, that information sharing systems is great. We can get massive amounts of information from India on how they address threats and how they're dealing with their security challenges and their infrastructure. At the same time, we've learned a lot over the last 10 years on how to build operation centers, how to distribute information, not only in a classified sense but in an unclassified sense as well. So we see those three areas as the critical to the future of homeland security cooperation between the two countries. Again, I wanna thank everyone for help on the report that did it and for all the support. I'm very proud of this effort. And Stephanie, thank you for having me back and for carrying this across the finish line. Thank you all very much for your remarks. Ozzie in particular, welcome back. And thank you for your comprehensive and lengthy remarks. I love telling speakers when they have five to six minutes to speak. And then the one who is the most loquacious all the way down there. So because we are running short on time and we've got about 12 minutes left for questions, I'm gonna give up, abdicate my role as moderator in this instance when I would usually ask the first question and open it up to the floor for questions. We have folks with microphones in the back of the room. So if you just raise your hand, they will come to you. If you would start out by mentioning your name and your affiliation and then if you wouldn't mind keeping your question in the form of a question, we would very much appreciate it. So I turn it to the floor, any questions? We have a gentleman up here in the front. My name is Hasmukh Shah from Business Times. Defense and security are the major focus points between India and USA. In June, Secretary John Kerry went to India and dialogues was held on security. Recently, Vice President Biden also went to India. And they discuss about the same thing. So the cooperation on defense and security is a major business between the two countries. Now the issue is that even today, there's a big conference. There's a launching of technology India's Department of DRDO, like our Pentagon. They are really giving the technology to the USA. So there is a tremendous opportunities of business and defense career. But still there are certain issues and concerns on both the sides. So what do you think about it? How we can remove these concerns and so that the business between the two countries can increase in both these areas because both countries are in fact. Infrastructure is one of the major issues which President Obama has also said that we need $5 trillion to improve our own infrastructure. And India also needs to improve its infrastructure. And India's ministers have been visiting America to get this investment opportunity there. All these points, you can highlight about it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna ask Ozzy because he mentioned technology and the private sector. If he wouldn't mind taking a first stab at that. But Abigail, before you leave, if we're gonna try to take a couple of questions at a time. And so if you can hand the microphone to the gentleman to your right, please. Rithik Rudram from the Indian Embassy. So just a couple of quick thoughts, not really a question. First of all, thank you to CSIS and the authors of this report for taking time out and making this wonderful study. Without getting into the contents of that, I would just quickly say that, you know, we face a lot of threats as Stephen pointed out, some of it external, some of it internal. And to an extent that the government of India is trying and grappling with the solutions for these kinds of efforts. Considering that you have our former home minister on the cover of this report, he once very famously said that, you know, a lot of the security challenges can be tackled through growth, through economic growth. And one thing I was gonna mention is that the ability to grow also requires investment. So one issue that I would like to raise is that India is more than welcome to have investment and through investment generate growth and through growth generate the government's capability to tackle all of these security issues. From a DHS India, HOMELAND Security Dialogue, essentially what we would look at is sharing of our experiences, but specifically from an Indian perspective, the building of capacity, the sharing of technology, and training. So that's essentially what I wanted to say, but thank you very much for this report. Thank you for your comments, Joanna. I may ask you after Ozzie answers the first question to maybe comment on what the Indian colleague has said. Ozzie? Yeah, thank you for the question on the technology. I think there's a lot that can be done. Again, when we both have infrastructure challenges, there's opportunity where you can both learn lessons together. There's a leveraging of that education and of that training. So instead of the United States trying to figure out how to do it on its own, and India trying to use it on its own, there's areas where those lessons can be leveraged to save money, actually, and address some of the infrastructure challenges that we have. And then on the issue of technology, my advice to US businesses that want to get involved in India is that they have to invest, and I don't mean necessarily money, they have to put people and develop the relationships. Somebody in India said to me when I was there, come and put somebody in India and put them here for three years and then we'll talk about a deal. So in corporations in US don't like that answer, but that's what they'll need to do. Thank you very much. So just to touch briefly on the event this afternoon, it's a defense research and development organization has developed an explosive detection kit and given exclusive distribution rights to a company in South Carolina in the US. So that's the first time that's ever happened and that rollout was happening at the US Chamber of Commerce this afternoon. So that is very exciting. And I step forward, I think, in the relationship. Regarding technology and public-private partnerships, and as Ruth Rick mentioned, it is a big initiative for the US government broadly and trade and investment and economics and all these things are pillars of the US-India relationship. And I think Secretary Kerry mentioned them extensively when he was in India and as well as Vice President Biden. On both sides, I think we're getting to the point now. There's been a lot of questions on both sides. Some legislative issues in India that they've been working through and really opening up more to businesses. So I think that's avenue for opportunity in the future. In the Homeland Security Dialogue, we've done a lot to discuss identifying capability gaps and avenues to fill those, either with training capacity building and then also sometimes technologies depending on what is appropriate. So as I mentioned earlier, one of the subgroups with the Homeland Security Dialogue is Science and Technology Upgradation. And on the DHS side, the interlocutor is our Science and Technology Directorate and we're definitely engaging in the avenue opening discussions and India has been doing a lot, especially recently in the last year or two of identifying capability gaps and specifically what kinds of technologies would most benefit them because it's not helpful just to spend a lot of money on expensive equipment doesn't necessarily get you a lot of mileage. So I think India has been doing the smart thing and learning from US experiences of some of the best practices that we've gained and how to employ technology effectively and cost effectively. So Rithwick just to mention a little bit, yes, we're definitely looking at capacity building, training, sharing of best practices. A lot of my friends and family sometimes ask, oh India engagement, that's really interesting but what do you do and what do you learn? Say, well, you know, I don't know who said it first but it's been oft quoted of late that India is the largest democracy and the US is the oldest democracy. And on the US side, there's a lot that we can learn from India. Their cities are larger than ours, their villages are smaller and more isolated. They have more rail and roads I think than the US and we can really learn and share a lot and we've done a lot in the last about six months or so identifying a lot of areas in which we're looking forward to expanding training and cooperation, especially with capacity building. Thank you. Any other questions? The lady in the back please. And then we'll take the gentleman sitting two rows in front of her. Mel Hirsch, risk consultant. Question about the impending drawdown in Afghanistan and the potential impact on Indians Homeland Security and the US Homeland Security commercial sector based on India's presence in Afghanistan. And will that facilitate more cooperation, potential competition? What will happen there? Hi, I'm Kandahar Pan from the US India Business Council. My question is to Stephen. Stephen, you said that America is increasingly facing a threat from terrorist outfits like Lashkaratoyiba. India and America, I mean, likely are facing the threat. My question to you is what, which is the best strategy for US to tackle? Is it to engage India or is it to engage with Pakistan directly? Actually, I might ask Stephen to tackle both questions and then maybe turn to Joanna to answer in terms of cooperation. On the first question, yeah, I certainly think that the drawdown is gonna exacerbate the threat in the short term to India. We're already seeing an uptick of activity in Kashmir. I was just there a little over a month ago, and it seems very clear that India-centric militants based in Pakistan who have been distracted or satiated by the US presence in Afghanistan for some time will begin to look back towards India post-2014. I think there's also a sense that as the US draws down, that that will create space and potentially relieve pressure on Pakistan. I don't know that that's correct, but that they can get things going again in Kashmir. I think it's also fair to say that groups like Las Kirtiaba have been restrained since 2008 from launching large-scale attacks against India. The Indian Mujaheddin, which is an indigenous network that I mentioned, was pretty well shattered in 2008 as well, but has since rebuilt. And so post-2014, there's a very good chance that there will be pressure by Pakistan-based militants to launch larger-scale attacks, and that the IM having rebuilt can be used as a sort of cat's paws well. Now, in terms of how that will impact the US, it's no longer the case that these actors are just focused on one enemy. They're focused on a number of enemies. And so that goes to the nature of the threat to US interests in South Asia that I mentioned. And I certainly think commercial interests are, I would list among those. In terms of, to then to the second question of how to combat this threat, whether it's engagement with India or Pakistan, I mean, quite frankly, it's both. And I always think it's important that when we talk about threats from Las Kirtiaba, I mean, I would probably sell more books if I said that that's what should be driving our policy, but it's not, right? We're engaging with India for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with Pakistan-based militancy. And we're engaging with Pakistan. A lot of that engagement is driven by counterterrorism, but much of it is not. And we'll need to continue to engage with both countries on a going forward basis. Coming back to the 2014 question, one of the points that I've made in terms of Pakistan engagement is that for the last 12 years, our engagement with Pakistan when it comes to terrorism and militancy has been pretty much Al-Qaeda-centric and Afghanistan-centric. Post 2014, as we draw down, that could create space for us to widen the aperture and focus more on the vast array of militant groups that are there, let among them. I certainly, I for one, have advocated that in a number of forms. I think that the U.S. counterterrorism architecture and our asks of Pakistan need to become broader than just AQ or sort of the Afghan-centric folks. Sure, just a couple of notes. I won't belabor the Afghanistan point because I think it's probably one of the most discussed and studied issues today. But I will say that the issue and engagement in Afghanistan has been a global effort for several years and the contributions of ISAF are a testament to that. And the U.S. and India, yes, play large roles, but we're not the only ones contributing. So I think as the situation develops and as I noted earlier, security and the global climate of politics and security are ever changing. So I think it's just important that we continue dialogue as we're moving forward. It's obviously gonna be a situation that both the U.S. and India closely watch and cooperate on into the future. Thank you. We have time for one more question. Anybody wanna wrap it up? This lady up here, please. My name's Sahar Bora. I'm from the World Organization for Research Development and Education. I actually had kind of a specific question about the railways in India. So we do a lot of cooperation. You guys are saying homeland security in both countries. So I was just thinking that the aviation in America is, you know, it's very well-secured. We have a lot of technology working there. So how does that translate when we try to cooperate and help India with their railroad infrastructure? Because, I mean, we don't really have a lot of railway infrastructure security to kind of give to them. So how would that translate over when you're working together on that kind of security? Thanks for that question. I'm gonna ask Ozzy, given his research in this area and that he mentioned the U.S. dependence on aviation and the Indian dependence on rail and then maybe turn to Joanna to talk a little bit about the specific working groups. I imagine that I've been working on this. Ozzy? Yeah, I think it's the opposite. I think we learn from India on the rails and they can learn what we have last 10 years on the aviation part. So I don't think it's how we can help them with the rail. I think that's the trade-off. Sure, well, first of all, I'd just like to note that I think that in a lot of ways, DHS has a lot of unsung heroes across the country. We have over a quarter million employees and they're all working to secure our homeland and rail security actually is a really big part of that. And we do do a lot of security for both passenger and cargo in the railways. So some of the engagements that we've been doing with India in the last year have focused on rail interdiction and cargo screening specifically because that is an area of need for them and one that we've spent a lot of time developing our capabilities because it is a different problem set trying to secure large cargo freight trains to vice passengers going through aviation security. And then quickly a note on aviation security, I think that's probably one of the best, easily visible and best understandable ways that we can show the evolution of the US government's best practices. So for instance, since 9-11, and I think a lot of us are quite familiar with aviation security because we fly a lot. We went through a period where, well, okay, so you can't have large bottles of shampoo anymore. You can only have tiny bottles. And then we went through, okay, well, you have to take your shoes off because of security issues with that. And then it wasn't sufficient just to have scanner machines or X-rays, we did body scanner so that you can't hide things on your person. We've gone through a lot of iterations of developing and using technologies. It's over the last decade, there's definitely been a lot of pros and cons, but working with partners like India and sharing our best practices so that when they get to the point where it is more economically feasible as their aviation cargo and passenger increases, and it's better for them to want to use technologies for that instead of the person-to-person interaction. And there's pros and cons to both, of course, but there's a lot of lessons learned that we hope to pass on and hopefully use the same types of systems so that when we get to a point of mutual cooperation, globally, we're increasing the security of passengers and cargo across the world, not just the U.S. and not just India. Well, first of all, I would like again to thank General Dynamics for supporting this study report and this event. And I would like to thank all of you for being here today. But most particularly, I would like to thank our three panelists for providing a truly comprehensive and clearly expert overview of what's been going on with U.S.-India cooperation and Homeland Security. Again, thank you all for being here and have a great weekend.