 Oh, a new legal requirement? Yes. OK. Do I need to call the meeting to order? OK. Do I need to call the meeting to order? You need to call the meeting to order and give the reason that we're doing a public meeting according to the new regulations. And I can take this off so you can hear me a little better, I hope. All right. I'm calling the October 22, 2020 meeting of the Amherst Board of Assessors to order. And then I'm taking directive from you, Liz. OK. The reason that we can have this meeting on Zoom is because of governing their Baker's new directive that amended the public meeting ordinance. And more information is available on Mass.gov under the public meeting laws, if anybody would like to look into the particulars. I believe. Did she just give you a site to the mass general laws? No, she really didn't. I thought she did. I have to do the classification hearing. And I just have one that showed me the law. So let's see. So the question I have is, I know this is being recorded. Is it being recorded so the public can also watch it? Yes, the public can watch it at any time because it is a recorded meeting. So the public can watch it simultaneously also. So is there any member of the public with us today? No. Unfortunately, there is no one there was a public so we can test our audio and our. OK, but I assume everybody can hear me and everybody can see. All right, Liz, are there any other preliminary matters before we go to the September 10th minutes? Well, of course, you know, we do ask the public if they have any comments and having having no public here. There is just a note that there was no public attendance. OK, all right. So I the the minutes for September 10th. Lee and I were were in attendance. I move that we approve those minutes. Have you got a chance to look at those, Lee? Yes. OK. All right. All those in favor of approving the minutes for September 10th 2020. Please say aye and Ken was not present. So the Ken is not OK. Ken is not voting. OK. Well, now we go to the get to the nitty gritty. OK, motor vehicle abatement reports. Yes, bring that up for you all. Do you all have it? Yes, I've looked at them. Whether I'm nimble enough to pull them up on my computer while I'm on the Zoom meeting, that might be that's the question, huh? I might be a little day might be a little dangerous. I don't know. I don't have to look at them while you're on. I have looked at them now. I've already taken myself. Now I've lost my audio. So OK, I lost my video. I think did you take us all and you see what I'm what I'm trying to show you gentlemen. Yes. Yeah. OK. So I'm somehow I took myself off. No, no. When she's here, we can see you, Richard. Yeah, when she shared that that took you off, Richard, but we can see you now. I now I all I can see is Zoom. Right. She's showing the first debate. This is the first abatement and it's for. You see that, Richard? No, I do not. Richard took himself off to go look at his own reports. Oh, OK, duh. OK, there we go. There we go. OK, I'm back. OK, excellent. We have eleven abatements, right? We do. We have eleven abatements. These are motor vehicle abatements done between nine seven and nine eleven. And we have a total of five ninety five and twenty two cents. OK, I move that we approve that set of abatements. Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. OK. Now, we're approving your signature, right, Richard? Yes, I guess. Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, and basically what we're approving all of our signatures. Yeah, according to the the regulations, if you vote on this in a meeting, we can we can sign on your behalf. So we're approving all of our signatures. Correct. OK. But we can we can actually sign on your behalf because you've approved them in the meeting. Right. OK. OK. The next one is actually five abatements. We have five abatements for a total of six forty six oh four. Don't see that. Batements done between the fourteenth and the eighteenth of the month of September. OK. We don't see it yet, Liz. All right. I look at these. I looked at these before the meeting, but not that I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to get in good with teacher or anything, but I did look at these before the meeting. Yeah. Good. You have to click on something. I think you have to scroll down. I already did, so I'm not sure. Can you see it yet? Oh, OK. There it is. It's very small, but I can make it bigger. That I do. Hang on. Let's see here. I have to do that. There we go. Yeah. OK. That look better. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Good. Five. Better like this. At least I don't have to flip them right side up. So it's five vehicles, right? There are five vehicles. Five abatements. Yeah. I move that we approve this set of five abatements between September 14th and September 18th of 2020. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. All right. OK, the next one is what a bit more. Twenty one or twenty three. Excuse me, twenty three of our motor vehicle abatements between the twenty first and 30th of September. We do have a total of three thousand forty eight dollars and seventy five cents. OK, I have a question here, Liz. My. You see that CCAP auto lease, which is Chrysler capital. Right. I notice we're writing off some bad debt from them. Yes, if they can show that they canceled the plates and registered it somewhere else or registered it to another individual, we are obliged to do a pro rate to a corporation just as we would have for an individual. No, but it's it's not just pro rate. It's it's bad debt back in 2013 and 2014. So I just wonder why we let them keep doing things with us if they have bad debt. We have to write off. You're referencing the you're referencing them from the the later on collectibles that we see. OK, this is a twenty twenty. This is a twenty twenty and that looks like a sold car. OK, but I'm just sold car. It might have nothing to do with you, Liz, but our collection area, I would think, would not let people register car or do something if we write off uncollectible debt from them. But this is not uncollectible debt. This is just OK. I'm just saying we will get to that, though. That is part of this meeting today. Keep this in mind when we get to the uncollectible. Oh, absolutely. Something like VW credit or something like that. I wouldn't I wouldn't approve to charge off. All right, so not to put you on the spot, Liz, but why do we have two entries for Kaila Blancette? Why is why are there two listings there? Two, two amounts. There's two vehicles. Two vehicles, really. Right. Two two thousand and six Nissan's. Yeah, it looks like there's two certificates. Either that or the first certificate may not have been correct. So they had to issue another one to make the correction. All right. Yeah, that looks like a wipeout because one's negative and one's plus. Oh, OK, right, right, right. Yeah, you're right. OK, so that turned out into these. OK, maybe they they initially were going to process it and then they reversed it, but it's only for five dollars. Yeah, looks like a correction. It kind of looks it looks like a correction, but it looks like they had to institute two of them for to the same account. Maybe, you know, sometimes when we put these things in, we might put in the wrong month and we might have to do a follow up correction to fix it. OK, all right. OK, I mean, be fair to you, Liz, do you actually look at these at all or do you just take them from the collectors and pass them on? Oh, no, the collectors don't do these at all. Oh, they don't do these at all. OK. No, no, these are done by Teresa. OK, they're also done by my assistant, Steven. OK, so they're all in the assessor's area and they're not on the collectors area. Yeah, they're not done. OK, I move to approve this set of abatements from September 21st to September 30th, 2020. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK. And the next one we have from October 1st to the second. We have four abatements and we have a total of one seventy eight ten. OK. OK. All right. Actually, there are five abatements there. Right. I'm confused. Oh, I'm sorry. There is a fifth. Yes. Yeah. Again, Mr. Selhurst had an amount. I don't know. I don't I guess we're. They reduced it by fifty three dollars and seventy five cents based on. I think OS is out of state. OK, and then he shows up registered out of state. And then he shows up down below again on that same list. I think it was for this one was for 19 and this is for 20s fiscal year. Two different billing cycles. OK, all right. And I guess that's how this breaks it down is to the two different cycles. If this was a different assessment period, that's how it's breaking them down on these reports just for your information. OK, all right. I move that we approve those abatements from October 1st, 2020 to October 2nd, 2020. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK, one last set. OK. The last one is seven abatements. Three hundred and eighty three dollars and ninety six cents. And that was between the fifth and the seventh of October. And there's that auto lease operation again. Right. And like I said, S.C. stands for cars sold car. Yeah, OK. All right. OK, so there's seven abatements there, three hundred and eighty three dollars and ninety six cents. I move that we approve these of those abatements from October 5th, 2020, October 7th, 2020. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK. Let's see. We have. This is where we're going to be getting into the uncollectable portions. I want to make sure I get the right one up for you. A little bit big for you, isn't it, gentlemen? I haven't seen yet. OK. So this is. Assessors warrant and collection collectors motor vehicle and trailer excise. This is a 2018 warrant. It's not sharing yet. Oh, I'm so sorry. So I don't I'm not maybe having senior moments here, but I don't remember reviewing this stuff before in prior years. But maybe Lee can have you think we've seen these before? Yeah, I don't remember this either. No, OK. This is this. OK, I wish you can. There we go. Can you see what what I'm trying to hear? Yeah. OK. So right now, we're looking at the warrant and it's for your 2018 and it's adding two hundred and ninety eight. So this is committing this is committing an old bill. Somebody may have sent it to us from another community. For two hundred and ninety eight thousand dollars. So I I'm I'm really unclear about what this is. Let me get to the detail. OK. Is this money we collected? This is money we're billing for. We're billing for. OK. And I know these are the individuals and this is the vehicle. It was likely sent to us from another community. And that community they went to and said, hey, I was I was a resident of Amherst and I want to pay Amherst. So in that case, we added to our our system and it is added to us for the fiscal 18. Understand. OK, so so this is money that we collected. This is money we're going to bill for. We're going to bill for. Yes, regarding a vehicle that is now is now not in Amherst. Is that right? No, that's not the issue. The issue is that it was billed, perhaps. And I'm only speculating because I'm not certain how we obtained it. We get directives from the motor vehicles. We get directives from other communities to send information to us. And then we would add that particular bill to the to the listing. All right. If nobody if everybody else is following it, I'm not. Well, that's I mean, for instance, you were registered to the motor vehicles and they inadvertently put in the wrong tax code for your town and you went to Pellum instead of Amherst. They would tell us that this vehicle belongs in Amherst. If I was the Pellum assessor, I take it off my list and I send it to Amherst. That's why I'm saying this is for an old. This is a two year old bill. Yes, I know. And the bill shows up, by the way, in the next in the next entry. Well, the details show up. That particular vehicle. Right. Right. Right. So now it's being billed by Amherst now. OK, so what are we approving here? We're approving it's a bill for two ninety eight seventy five. So we're approving the billing of this. Yeah. So those these two individuals are still living at that address. To my to my knowledge, yes, they don't have to be, though. No, but if we want to get to them, we better we better make sure the address is right. OK, so this is a. So this is I'm sorry, I'm really showing my ignorance here. But so this is a they that these individuals failed to pay their excise bill in twenty eighteen. Yes, it went to it probably went to the wrong town. Oh, or was somehow omitted. Sometimes the motor vehicles will catch up to somebody that's had an expired registration and they may send us a thing to say, hey, by the way, you didn't collect taxes on us. And so that other town is forwarding that they're letting Amherst know that that the bill wasn't paid in in this town or shouldn't have been paid in that town. Correct. And Amherst is saying, oh, OK, we'll go collect it. OK, so did these bills come up episodically? Or is there some kind of a schedule or because I don't think they will happen periodically because no system is perfect. Right. But I don't remember. We'll send it to Timbuktu, you know. And sometimes we will find that it's gone to the wrong community. OK, because I don't ever remember seeing one of these before. So I'm right. So I'm just OK. So so we're approving the we're approving the. I think you already said you did for this two hundred and ninety eight thousand two ninety eight seventy five. What what about. So we see where it says sign motor vehicles on your on your agenda. These are vehicle warrants and notices to commit. OK, so we're this is commitment a ninety three. So in order to sign it on a Zoom meeting, what are we doing? We're you're doing is voting on it. OK, all right. Just as you did the others. OK, so I am moved. I move that we approve this warrant and notice to commit for twenty eighteen commitment number ninety three in the amount of two hundred and ninety eight dollars and seventy five cents. Second. OK. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK. I'm moving on the two thousand and nineteen. We have another commitment. So so let me ask you about the numbering. Yes. Then so this so the two the the twenty eighteen the last bill, the last commitment in twenty eighteen was ninety three is the is is the seek is a sequential number of the last bill. Is that right? Is that essentially what it is? So we take commitments and they're numbered in the order in which they're accepted. OK, so there was no relevance to the year that we're adding them to the to the tax rolls. But OK, but they're added to the tax. So there were ninety two commitments before this. Right. And this is the ninety third of twenty eighteen, right? Well, I think it's the ninety third for twenty twenty. Well, OK, or the calendar year of twenty twenty because they they, you know, these are these numbers are warrants. They're not going to do with what we're doing. I don't issue these numbers just so you know, Jennifer and the tax collector's office does the numbers. The other numbers could be nothing to do with assessment. Those numbers have nothing to do with assessment. They're just commitment numbers and it doesn't seem to have any relevance to the fiscal year because you've got commitment ninety three and eighteen and commitment ninety two. All right. OK, all right. All right. I think it's in a relative. It's a mute point. It's something that's for bookkeeping in the tax. All right. OK, all right. All right. OK, so this is our next commitment and the details are on these pages at the end. Now, once again, I see the same. It is the same person for the previous tax year. Let's see. OK, so this is this additional money being sought from that from that residence on a second. I must say that's up. That's ninety three. This is this is the same one I've brought up again. Let me just know that's ninety three. Sorry about that. All right. So now we've got a group of them this time and these are for two thousand and nineteen, the sum total of these. And if you look at the if you look at the fifth one down, it's the same vehicle, I believe. Yes, it is. But the thing is, is this is for a different tax period. That's what I want to point out. The previous one was for eighteen. This is for nineteen for commitment ninety two. OK, so so this will flex the fact that these these parties were billed for an excise tax for twenty twenty nineteen, right? And they didn't pay, right? These are being added to the twenty twenty nineteen list. Yes, they haven't paid on these vehicles before. This is the first time they're being billed up to my knowledge. Yes, they were built somewhere else, maybe. But not. Yeah, I don't know whether they were built somewhere else or whether motor vehicles said, hey, they had a late registration and we're sending them to you. All right, OK, all right. Because that's especially in the time of covid. There's a lot of people that have gone, you know, and let things lapse. So so there's are most of these initiated by the state? Yes, I would say so, yes. Yes. Most of this information does come to us from the RMV. OK. Oh, well, Tesla is there. Yeah, quite a few Teslas in town, actually. And a lot of folks are getting those electric. Oh, what do they call them? Evie, something or other. They're electric chargers in their car in their homes. They're recharging their own car. OK, you have to get a permit for that. Yes, you do. OK, so I'm so I moved to approve this this commitment for 2019 commitment number ninety two. This is a total of one thousand nine hundred sixty three dollars and fifteen cents. Second. All right. All those in favor, please say, aye. Aye. Moving on. This is for the year twenty twenty. This is a commitment for one thousand six hundred seventy five dollars and twenty cents. So if we were in a meeting, we'd be signing all this stuff. That's correct. OK, I apologize for the phone. The DFW decided to get back to me. OK, this is our next commitment. This is commitment ninety one. OK. Total is one thousand six hundred seventy five dollars and twenty cents. All right, I move that we approve this commitment from twenty twenty number ninety one in that amount. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK. Our next commitment is quite a large commitment. This one is for twenty twenty. As you can see, it's for fifty three thousand three hundred and sixty three dollars and thirty four cents and a little proofreading error there on the top there. But anyway, I'm sorry. Well, it should say fifth, not fifty, but that's all right. On the top, fifty. On the top of what? Fifty. The top of the. Oh, of the. Fifty. Fifty. Fifty. Fifty. That's interesting. I think it means fifth. But yeah, I think it was meant to be fifth. And it was probably those things where you. I'm one of these people that spot stuff like that. Yeah, it's so petty on my part. But I, you know, I, I, I, you know, it runs into it once in a while. And yeah, I'm guilty of it just as anybody else ever read one of those things that you read, what you think you think you ought to be reading. Right, right. Yeah. So this is a substantial amount of money. It really is. Yeah. So now this reflects what I'm just trying to get a sense of what. Well, that's what I'm getting down to. OK, I don't I don't remember seeing a detail on this one. Hmm. Yeah, there is no detail. It's four million dollars worth of cars, I guess, right? It is for for. Five hundred and forty five third line down, it's excise. And I thought that this does not have. But we have five hundred and forty five. So that I think this is a regular infusion of property for September. We have five commitments equaling, you know, four million dollars in value, almost five million dollars in value. Wow. So I guess that these are cars that have not been billed. Yeah, yeah, this is for these are these are tax bills that have not been that have not been issued. Is that right? Yes, excise tax bills. That's right. That's right. And we're telling the collector to send out the bills for these. Do they come from the state based on registration? Yes, they do. And that's why they get they send out a new one. The state does to you. They send them out to us regularly. OK, that's why it could be a number because, you know, and in some cases, it's not for the complete billing cycle. It's only for a portion. Does anybody remember how much annually we collect motor vehicle excise? I don't remember. I could gather that information for you. We've had that number. Somebody's told us that number before. OK, I I move that we approve this commitment. Number five for twenty twenty. Fifty three fifty three thousand three hundred and sixty three dollars and thirty four cents. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Moving on, we're going to the uncollectibles. Now, this is something I might want to explain to you if you're not already familiar with it. Are any of you. We're not. We're not. OK, so let me explain what that means. Basically, uncollectibles, they are. You know, sometimes I'd like to shoot my computer, so sorry. Basically, how uncollectibles work is the tax collector will keep certain bills and the active files for a number of years. And after so many, so many years, they'll they'll say, OK, we're going to put these in the uncollectibles. Now, the uncollectibles don't mean that we aren't ever going to collect them. It just means that it's not going against the tax collector's collection rate, if you will, after those are considered uncollectible. We do the sharing and you'll see the first one that might help explain some things. Let me help me out. What's a worksheet that we have here? This you can see it. OK, so this is a schedule of uncollectible bills. This is for fiscal year 13. So they've been trying to collect these bills since 2013's cycle. Let me just bring up the pages here and this is showing you the bill numbers, the date, the demand date. This is the warrant dates and some of them. And Teresa and the collector, Jennifer LaFountain, work on these together to determine which ones they're going to abate or I shouldn't say bait, but basically they're put in the uncollectibles. They're taken off your books, right, essentially taken off the active books. OK, OK, it's kind of like with charge cards. You have the charge offs. It doesn't necessarily mean that you won't ever get the money. It just means at this point, they're not considered active collectibles. We don't anticipate collecting this money. What does it mean when there's a demand, but there's no warrant? It's just left blank. Maybe they didn't issue a warrant. OK. Oh, shoot. Did I just take myself off? No, you're there. I can hear you golly. OK, there we go. I'm I'm unfortunately, I'm not I was not able to print out this particular. There are several sheets to this. I wouldn't print all this. And some of them are handwritten. I was talking about seeing the written to worksheet that you are going over Liz. Oh, that one. Yeah, I don't I did not make this sheet. I'll be honest with you. I think this was created by either Jennifer or Teresa. But this is I think this is how they keep track of them. Yeah. Yeah. So is this a joint effort between your office and the collectors? Absolutely. OK, this is a joint effort. Yeah, this is it's kind of stupid, actually, for the assessors to be handling this because only the collectors can really tell whether or not they feel that they would be successful in collecting a balance. And they're the ones that issue the demand. Yes, collect and they issue the bill. They issue the follow up demand and so they do everything as far as well. Not quite, but you push it over to them, let them do everything. Well, you know, I think it's a matter of checks and balances. I think that's why they have the assessor's office involved in it at all. You know, really looking at the the bottom line is it's a hundred and thirty five bills, most of them are for less than a hundred dollars. There's a couple that are that are more having been in the tax collector's office. I'm familiar with this practice. It's actually nationwide and it's, you know, even a corporate practice after a while. So this is coming before us. Why? Well, because it is our our responsibility to determine whether or not these are eligible for being. Listed as uncollectables. All right. And how would we make that decision? Just prove or deny them. OK. Now, they they are for bills that have been produced quite a while ago. They call it 30 of 30 is the category. It's a reference to the the bucket they put them in when they feel that they're uncollectable. OK, so so Jennifer LaFountain, according to the first on the schedule, has determined that these are uncollectable because the taxpayer is dead, absent, bankrupt, insolvent or otherwise unable to pay. So that means that there's actually been a determination made about the taxpayer. Correct. OK, so the taxpayer is not just a wall. And she has checked it off right here. Yeah, if, gentlemen, you haven't seen that. Let me. Yeah, if, gentlemen, you haven't seen that. Let me get absent, bankrupt, insolvent or otherwise unable to pay. OK, so that. OK, so all right. So we're talking about this option when you don't know anything. OK. It's kind of it's a new point to even have it there, really, because it's telling you either way, you can get rid of it. OK. So if they show but it still leaves the option if something. Doesn't meet the dead absent bankrupt or otherwise unable. So it would fall under this one. So the handwritten portion that I'm looking at here, that's probably the list that she's been maintaining all along. OK, all right. So this is 2013. OK. So this is not an annual thing that we're doing. This is sort of a housekeeping. Yes, it is. OK, all right. All right. OK, so you think you do it every year. Do another year. No, because, you know, something, this is one of those things that it doesn't require you do it every year. OK, we try to follow the standard operating recommendations for the offices and they only have it done every so many. But it also depends on the size of the community. You know, if you have a certain substantial amount of these bills, then you're going to want to do it more frequent. And you're fortunate to have people that pay their bills pretty well. I mean, is this something that might have come up in an audit or some kind of review and they said they need to do this? Times they're made recommendations, but I doubt that's the case. I think this is a regular part of the process. OK, because I once again, I don't recall us seeing this before. But, you know, OK, so I move that we approve the schedule for uncollectibles for 2013 motor vehicle excise taxes. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. OK. Hey, now we get another one coming, right? 2014. Let's see. That was 2013. Right. Yeah, there it is. At some point, I guess I who follows up. I mean, I get a little concerned when people show up as unpaid collectible bills and they're still in business like this. Go to go the taxi company. They're still doing taxis. Why are they allowed to renew their license if they haven't paid bills? You're always within your right to question why this particular bill is, you know, being requested to be charged off. I'm unfortunately not familiar with any taxicab that might have been involved. Who would follow? The only thing I think the only thing I think is perhaps there was some reason that particular bill. I don't know why you said that particular taxi cab company was still in operation. Yeah, Teresa made a reference to this in her email where when she sent us this stuff, just so you know, when a motor vehicle excise goes unpaid, it will get to the point where the mass RMV is notified and the registered owner of a vehicle who is trying to renew registration or driver's license will not be able to unless such time he pays any outstanding taxes to the city slash town they owe tax to. That's right. That's right. We hold it on. It's been done then. I would say so, because I mean, they they have some kind of they have some kind of license with the town, too, don't they? But I would like to know what cab company you're speaking of. Well, it's the bottom of 2020. G. O. T. T. A. G. O. Taxi. It's unpaid bills as of. Which one is it? It's 2013. I'm looking at, but OK. I'll follow up on that, you know, to find out specifically if that company is still doing business and why they would be on the list. When it shows up as green transportation, the bike company that does bikes in town, they show up. Is that the they do some follow up on that? Is that the one that supplies the bikes at the they do at the the reason that drink transportation might be there is because it's probably exempt because it is part of the green initial. So that's probably why that one is. It should be a go taxi. I don't get that one. Why should it be uncollectable? They should just file for an abatement. I would say so, yeah. But I will follow up on that. I will ask that those questions and those are good questions. Honestly, there is some way we should make sure these they keep paying taxes and have licenses from the state or from the town. Oh, I agree with you entirely. I mean, I have to pay taxes. You have to pay taxes. You know, I don't I don't get get a free pass and I don't give one very well, I know you agree with was how much how much total how much total money was it from 2013? How much money was that? Oh, eight thousand eight thousand three hundred four dollars. That's that's that's not pocket change. No. And I certainly, you know, without your your intuitiveness about the community, I wouldn't know that that taxi company was in place. So yeah, I know about green transportation because it's right in front of me right in town hall here. Actually, Angela Mills coordinates that effort here. Yeah, but I'm looking at four entries for that taxi company. Yeah. Yeah, there's CC, the auto lease company down below there, too. Yeah. OK, it's just matter of somebody checking somewhere. And it could be between collection and you where they think you're checking and you think they're checking and nobody's checking. Well, I'll be honest with you. I have to lean on Teresa and Jennifer, as far as their personal knowledge of this area to tell me why these would be un-uncollectible. I mean, obviously, they've been on the list since 2013. I would have thought that they'd make a valiant effort to, you know, hold up their registration. I know it would hold up their registration. It has held up the registration. So if they're on the road, I'd like to know how they got there. Well, obvious question. Have they paid the taxes for the last seven years? Well, what I'm thinking is who's putting plates on their vehicle that's allowing them to bypass the registration blockage or have they been going unregistered? And why would the Amherst police pick them up? Good thought. OK. But thank you for bringing it to my attention. Any time you see something like that, certainly bring it to my attention. You know, I'll do the follow up and make sure that folks are paying what they should, because obviously I do believe that anybody that's not paying their fair share is going to you. So I don't do that readily. So this is the 2014 list that I'm bringing up now. Can you all see that? Hang on a minute. Let me go back to where it was. OK, I'm not seeing it right now. OK, let me go to share and make sure that I've got it up for you. Can you see it now? Yeah. OK. We'll make a little bit for you. All right. Let's see. Now, this is the handwritten, of course. This thing here, and I wish I could get it out of the middle. There it is. I got it out of the middle of my screen. OK. So this is the collector's handwritten work, right? As far as I know, because Theresa wouldn't have that information about when the warrants were sent and so forth, as you can see. This is the date of build issue. This is the demand date and this is the warrant date. So they get notified at least two times and sometimes three times. I mean, I'd just be curious to know why. I mean, we're talking a lot of bills here that issue warrants. You have a fairly high transient population. So really, this is not high. I mean, like you just look at the line here, 14333 to 149. That's five hundred five hundred bills didn't get a warrant issued to them. I just wonder it's not just like one bill. It's a huge number of bills. I understand. I can't answer that as far as why a warrant wasn't didn't go out for that. I just wonder if the process is working right back. Maybe it wasn't working right back then, but. Yeah, I am, you know, there are agencies that help us track down transient populations, Lexis nexus and things of that nature I've used in other communities. The problem is that they're a little expensive. They're like a hundred dollars a month. And what they do is they track down the people that move. Yeah, but I don't think this is tracking. This is more process when you have that many bills, never have a warrant issue. Either somebody forgot to fill in the slipper. Well, I know Jennifer was not the tax collector. Oh, I know. But I'm not even sure she prepared this list. Who's doing it today and a predecessor. Yeah, I'm more concerned today what's happening. Right. Right. Well, you know, and I can ask, I can pass those questions that you've asked through to the collector's office and see if there's a way that we can improve this process. Yeah. And if there's any assistance that we can lend them to do that. Good idea. Yeah, it looks like the later ones are there aren't as many. I think that they're doing a very diligent effort between Cheryl, our treasurer and Jennifer, our collector to to really track down those dollars that have been issued for billing or and if they're not payable to really get a good answer for us. I'm not sure that, you know, what the practices were prior to that. But, you know, it's it looks like it did diminish and that and Jennifer didn't start until, I believe, 2019. How is there? You all have this as Teresa sent these to you. Yes. OK. So I don't have to really go through the minutiae of each line. So I guess it is ten thousand two hundred thirty three dollars and thirty three cents got 14 bills for the 2014 grant tax list. Tax rolls. All right. I move that we approve that schedule for uncollectibles for 2014 motor vehicle excise taxes. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. I mean, there's just a fair amount of revenue there. Yeah, yeah, there is. About all I got for you. Did you want to excuse to excessive session or we can keep it open to the public? I don't I don't think it's nothing that I have to share that would be confidential. All right. OK. Well, why don't we go to your update? OK. Basically, what we're doing right now is we're preparing for the classification hearing and David and Teresa and Sean, we're all working together to make sure we can get as many as many demolers as we can of the community. One of the things that I'm looking at is increasing the value on one property. We may get some pushback because they have section eight housing and so forth in this particular apartment complex. I did verify it with the state. I do have the right to increase the value based on the purchase during the revaluation cycle. So I am going to add quite a bit to the growth of the tax rolls. And now we may get some pushback, but I don't think so. So help me out. What what are the reasons the growth and the tax rolls? Growth can happen from new construction. It can happen from additions. It can be happening from a change in use, say, for instance, if something was an agricultural use or a conservation use and it was developed. If it be it's subdivided and now it's two building lots versus one building lot. There's many, many ways that you can have growth. And as you know, we have a number of complexes going up. Aspen Heights is long up. Today, I'm going to add 39 condominium units that were in at about 10 or 20 percent as of June. We do have a number of new homes that have gone up. One of those would. Liz, would you say mostly it's new growth? But you add to that. New development, new construction versus current homes just going up in value. It's new growth. Yeah. But the current homes are either staying staying at their current value or going up more than five percent. We just ran the statistics on the sales and honestly, Amherst is doing well. It really is the homes as they have a very limited inventory, which is driving up the price. And even my commercials, which is rising, have also been active. As you know, they've just bought the big white plaza. You've got a bunch of these marijuana pharmacies going in. The rafters is being turned into one. There's a place right next to it. You also have rise over by further up the hill over by North Amherst there. Then you have just so much going on here with a lot. I'm fortunate to have Kevin Casey for half the week. He's the new assistant that was in central services. And he's been a wonderful asset to try and lift some of that weight off of Theresa and myself and learn how to do inspections and so forth. A lot of times when a new construction is built or a sale occurs, we want to look at those sales and we want to look at that new construction to make sure they built what they're supposed to or the condition of the home and the circumstances of the sale or arms length are practical to use in our analysis. What the state does is they look at our sales and if it goes up more than 10 percent in any one category and categories can be residential, commercial, industrial, vacant land and so forth. Then we have to do an interim valuation on that category and we have to adjust them accordingly. Liz, do you have any sense as to how much the value is going up in, say, commercial versus residential? Well, I have to send out notices to the commercial tax base and ask them for their income and expense information to give you a qualified answer. The reason I'm saying that I'm not seeing a lot of drop in your commercial is I'm seeing some activity with the sales. I have to research them further in order for me to find out whether their arms length and what the income and expense ramifications are that go along with that to give you a straight answer. However, just to give you one example, I had a restaurant and the occupant is going to buy it. The property is valued at around seven hundred and something thousand dollars and they're going to be paying a million for it. And that's a restaurant. Now, can you think of anything more, more impacted than restaurants in this covid crisis? Is it going to remain a restaurant? Actually, two restaurants in the one building. Yes. So that in the future, that back when you mentioned if a category goes up by more than 10 percent, do we have any of those happening? No, but we got close. But remember, our cutoff was January of 19. So if we don't find a good sample within January of 18 to 19, then we have to push it back one more year. And sometimes we have to do that with the commercial industrial. So we're not going to see necessarily a profound increase based on the current market and the current impacts of covid. The only way I'm going to find that information is by digesting the sales that happen and looking at the income and expense documents that come back to my office and I'm going to be soliciting them shortly. They're going to be due back in February. They won't affect the current bills, but they will be affecting the following year. But it also sends a message to my commercial industrial community that I don't do this in a vacuum. I do want to make sure that I give them that opportunity to present the facts as they know. So have you had any discussions with, I don't know, whoever, Paul or somebody has he gotten any questions back from counselors about the exception possibility for residential this year? We've already calculated that information. As a matter of fact, I have some preliminary information I can share with you now. Let me see. Because I know David had a few questions last year from counselors about it. Well, you know, the thing is, I just want you to be ready for their questions when you go before and I am, I am. The residential exemption is something that I was working on yesterday. Let me just bring that up for you. But I'll be honest with you. I had I had some help from my my partner in crime here, David. He's been really healthy and he's been eager to help me with some of this stuff. And I'm really grateful. He's just really can't speak enough about him. He's been wonderful to work with. And I'm certainly not disappointed that he's been willing to offer his expertise and his his history to the process. So I'm glad his health is doing better. Yeah. So am I. So am I. I really appreciate what he gives, but I don't want him to give the last ounce, if you know what I mean. Did he have his separate place? He certainly did. And he's mobile boy. He's doing really good. He came out of inspections with us over at the Burkume properties when they were looking at them. And just it was really a pleasure to work with them. So he's probably got a trip plan. I don't know if we don't if we can't get out of this travel bans and so forth. We'll see what happens. Well, they say now's the time to book them. You can always cancel most of them. Yeah. There we go. This is my third draft. So I'll share this one, you know, unfortunately, when things get in the zoom setting, sometimes I'm not so good at maneuvering around. So I will do very best to get this up. Come on. There it is. OK. So this is my draft of the we're not there yet, Liz. Yeah, let me let me bring it up there. I haven't submitted the final draft, but this is what I've prepared so far concerning the residential exemption. And let me get it bigger so you can read it. Now, of course, I got David's input as far as these statistics because some of these I really just wouldn't have the wherewithal about. So he was able to supply those to me, but in a nutshell, the residential exemption is really made for seasonal property owners, you know, places that were heavily impacted by the purchase of properties that drove up the market and the indigenous population couldn't make it. And they were trying to shift that tax burden to the folks that were seasonal. So where I see this implemented is places like Martha's Vineyard, the shoreline, the city of Boston. Those are the areas that have implanted as far as I could tell, there was less than 20 and all the places that did implement it didn't really resemble Amherst. So, you know, I had an opinion on here and I said, you know, it's really not up to me. So these are facts as we know them. It's up to you to present to the council the information. And they're the correct side. Right. So certainly when I finished this draft, I will send it to you. Thank you. We'd like to see that. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, a question. We don't have the transients or we do have the transients. That's the wildcard where Amherst is not like any other town. We don't have the summer people, but we have the students. Yeah, the problem with the students, though, is they're in apartments and apartments fall under that residential exemption. Oh, the way things are classified, you're going to capture the apartments with the residential exemption. They're going to be, you know, maybe not qualified, but we also have a number of our as I say, hard hit population. As I recall, the exemptions will impact the rents. Oh, of course they will. Yeah. Because they will raise rents will raise rents. And that has been that's been a sticking point, as I recall, in years past. Yeah, because a number of your a number of your senior disabled population is struggling to make ends meet because the students are driving up the cost of rent, the cost of housing. Yes. And the exemption will actually will actually exacerbate that. Right, because most most rental agreements have a pass through clause in them so that any increase to the taxes or any increase to the common utilities will be passed through in the rent increase. Yeah, I have never heard anybody give me a correct answer is of the residential apartments. How much of those are really affordable low income versus students? Well, the one that I'm talking about now is lessy. 22 lessy street at Clark House. I think you're familiar with it. Yeah, yeah. And that is like 95 percent section eight or disabled or elderly. So that basically the whole complex is in that at order. But the one thing that we have to our advantage with that particular property is they purchased it in the revaluation cycle. Now, they initially did the income approach to value because it was under chapter 121 a, which gave them a tax break for 40 years. Wow, that's what I call a deal. And they bought it for over 12 million dollars. But our value on it was based on the income limited rent. And it was only at like seven million. So I'm increasing that to 11 something. So we're going to have that as our new growth. No, they may challenge it, but I doubt that they'll have a foot to stand on because they purchased it right in the middle of the revaluation cycle. I just I like to understand better. I and I'm not asking you, Liz, this year to do it. But, you know, just pick a number, say the four thousand apartment units and students occupy three thousand. Low income has occupied a thousand. Right. There's ways to help low income besides taxes. Oh, I agree. I know in where I where I was previously, we had a renters rebate program, but that was a state program. And I don't know if you had something like that here. And what they did is folks would submit their income and assets and they would get a check back from the state. No. Yeah. And that would help offset their rent increase from the. Yeah. Split. It was residential. It was a way to do it. You know, the hard part is when you have a particular community such as this, that property is so in demand and so unaffordable because people have have come here and grows to be temporary residents or basically, it's a beautiful area to come to. It have everything here and it's got a very low inventory. People rent, but they won't sell. And that drives up that market. And more and more is going to rental converting. Oh, oh, most definitely. And, you know, to maintain a healthy community, you want to keep your indigenous population as best you can. Yeah. It provides history and stability to the community. And all we can do all you can do is present the facts to the council and then they need to decide when something becomes available that I think will, you know, give us some help in that direction. I'll certainly recommend it. Well, I would tell say that unlike the select board that we had prior to this, we have some council members who are are interested in investigating this. Well, this has been on the book since 1979. Yes, has been covered several times. Yes. The problem is, you know, we have some fairly changed from year to year. Well, we have a council. We have a council that has it has some people who are relatively new to town government, who did not serve on town meeting and did not serve on a select board. So there are some I'm just letting you know that there are some people that are some individual members who are interested in. So when you say at the bottom, if the community wishes to implement the residential exemption, the assessor's office will need a year or more to gather the information and implement the exemption. Correct. There I don't know that this is ever going to get to a majority of the council, but there are a number of council members that are curious about it. You know, I've been asked to examine and analyze tax relief many times. And sometimes tax relief isn't tax relief, you know. And without doing the full analysis, we really, you know, wouldn't be able to tell you an exact. Well, I understand that. Yes. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying that it will need more than a year to really do this, because we have to send out questionnaires. And that's a lot of money to do that. Yes. You know, you're talking a few grand just to actually send out the information. Yes. And then to process that information. And I have a one point four employees. I understand that. That's why I'm that's why I'm that's why I'm I guess I'm gently warning you that there are some people that know they're going to have to be educated as to, you know, what the facts are. Yes. And, you know, this this draft that David helped me with initially had part of the formula in it, but it got too difficult to digest. So we pulled that out because it was just hard for them to digest. Because because last year when I was I think several of us were at the meeting, there were more questions, as I recall, last year than there had been in other other years about the about the idea of doing something different. You know, one of the things that I've been asked in the past was, why don't we implement a freeze program tax freeze program? And, you know, that sounds really appealing. I like the idea and get a little long on the tooth. I'd love to have my taxes frozen for the duration of my retirement, why I live. The only problem is we found out that we couldn't afford to do that. Sure. The community could not afford to spring for it. That's really what I come down to. And a more graduated by income and asset was more reasonable. And it had a graduated scale as to what benefit was coming. And, you know, it was interesting. I went to the communities that they had pointed out as having the freeze program and said, hey, you know, how's it working out for you? Well, at least in the communities that I analyzed, they said, well, there's an 18 percent interest that's tacked on to the unpaid amount that's in the freeze. So you're basically putting your taxes on a credit card that'll be matured when someone else buys the property. And my second question was how many people participate? Four. And that was in a community that had multimillion dollar homes on the water. So if it's not working for a property community that has multi million dollar homes over 45,000 people and it's basically, you know, they may not have any errors and they don't care what happens to it after they pass on. You know, but most people don't want to enter into that kind of a situation not to get a tax break. That's not to politician kick the bucket down the road, you know, something I don't blame them because, you know, if I heard as a constituent not being knowledgeable that there was a residential exemption or tax relief program, of course, I'd pursue my my my representative to to look into it. Anybody would, but you got to remember what community you're serving. And if it's a community that makes sense, not just for one participant, but for the for the common good, and when you've got a population of 45,000 and only four participating in a program, I think that's an epic fail. Well, I'm trying to get to I'm just saying I I've been here for 25 years. I was in town meeting for a while for for 15 years or so. And I think this is an issue that looms more than it did because there's something you're right on the face of it. It's tempting. Sure it is. And you have to actually look you have to look deeper into who would pay and then and then it and then it stops. And then and then the interest stops as soon as you explore who's going to pay. So I'm just saying I'm just saying you may get you may get asked quite a few questions on the 16th of November. And I am familiar with the formula. I did go over it in course 101 and, you know, it's it's not that tough a formula, but you have to identify who is your indigenous population before you can even exact the formula. And that's where the expensive survey comes in. You know, I think David had a while I think the US Census could help you in that, but it's not going to be. I don't know that they'll give me that particular residence. I think you can tell me how many are residents you're around as far as the US Census data to give me some impact, but it's not going to tell me what particular house. I mean, I my sense of it is that is that the impact on non-student renters usually ends the discussion. Yeah, but but there are definitely people who I think have not been fully satisfied on the council about that. Well, I think the hard part is probably really just explaining how this is impacting and how something that's proposed as an exemption could actually either keep the taxes at the status quo or make them grow because the rate goes up because just like it is in a boat, if you move a rock from one end of the boat to the other end of the boat, it's going to make a tip, you know, and those taxes have to go somewhere and they have to be moved around only within the residential category. They cannot be shifted to the commercial industrial. Yes, something that has to be, you know, imparted. So, you know, while your community may be gracious, it may not be that gracious to shift those tax burdens to folks. Did you see the break even points that David brought to our attention? Yes, you know, at 10 percent and 20 percent, you know, you're talking, let's see, break in even point would be four hundred and ninety thousand four hundred four hundred and eighty seven thousand six hundred. You know, these are these are not cheap homes. And I don't think that's your target population. You'd have to have a home that high in order for it to make sense. What do you mean you have to have a home that high to make it make sense? This is where David is saying is the break even point. So everybody above that would pay more taxes. Everybody below that would save taxes. Yes. Yeah, basically. You know, a lot of people, thirty eight hundred people. That's a lot of people out of sixty. Well, it said it isolates them here. Five hundred and twenty one of the ten percent range. Five hundred and twenty three and the fifteen percent range and five hundred and twenty six for a total of almost two thousand people that would actually pay more in taxes in the residential bracket. But that's less than ten percent of the population. That's true. I mean, that's true. Ninety percent would benefit. I mean, that's not remember. Also, this is going to affect your apartments and the ones that have next use. Say, for instance, you have those new apartments of Bavaria. Yeah, those would also be involved. The properties over at Lessie Street, where you have disabled and income limited. Those would also nobody's ever given us good information about who are who own who occupies the apartment complexes. And my guess with eighty percent are students. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Who cares about them paying more but not for Lessie Street. I'd say Lessie Street is more of your your seniors. You're disabled and folks that are not necessarily part of that. But I believe other ways. Sure, they pay more taxes and rent, but give them other benefits that they can apply it towards. May I just understand. Yeah. Yeah. And I would love to be, you know, I'd love to take ownership of these stats, but David was able to help me with that. Oh, after I have to reach out to him to find out more about it. This is a system of government right now that's a little more, I think, hearing from voters between the elections. Well, they heard. And they hear excuse me. And they hear and they hear about the tax burden and they hear complaints about taxes. And so I think this is a this is a system that we have right now that's a little more receptive to proposals for tax relief. Sure. Problem is, you have to figure out who benefits and who doesn't. Right. And that's where the year comes into place, because in order for me to really calculate who's my god, at least a year. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's another thing that those of us who have been in government understand. The workload, you may get your workload added to you without the resources to actually do the work. Correct. Yes. And one of the ways that I'm going to be able to really, you know, help your tax base overall is just to gather as much as I possibly can. And we've got a lot out there to look at. Yes. But I mean, I think it is true. I think what Ken says is true. It's hard to know who the renters are. I mean, you see, walking at it out. And if you can ask that question, Liz, how many renters are not students? What are you going to say? Well, you know, without having the analysis, I wouldn't be able to do that. I have no idea. I know that there's more than what you got about 30,000 people in UMass alone. So when you look at that population and you know how how many units are in the dorms, you can do some kind of process of elimination. Because obviously not a whole lot of them are commuters, are they? Well, some of them are also not living in Amherst, are they living in Hadley or Sunderland? Do you ever feel Hadley, Sunderland? Yes. So you're right. I mean, the question is, we need to make sure we protect the people that can't pay pay higher rents and pay higher taxes. We understand what that group is and how many people are there. Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all, you got to identify your target the target people that you're trying to reach. And, you know, I usually recommend looking at other communities in the area to see how they've implemented programs there and how they've panned out if they're successful. I don't think we have anybody out here in Western Mass who's doing the exemption. If I'm not mistaken. No, no, the places I found were Truro, Boston. You know, the the statistics that I saw online, though, were very old. There wasn't anything up to date. But it's creeping the other way around Boston. I know there are a couple of new districts this year around Boston and now started that. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I mean, maybe just to establish a baseline, maybe it might be worth worth doing the survey just to have a look and see what's going on. Yeah. And to make that investment. I mean, the other the other perception of the exemption, at least I understand, as I understand, is it wax your commercial sector? Well, yeah, like I said, that boat tip is going to affect the shift. But as far as I think it's a shift within the residentials, you know, but part of that residential is the apartments. No, including the mixed use. So that's where you and most of your how can I say I know it's called residential, but I would call that commercial in an appraisal world. But I mean, and the other the other part of this problem is trying to figure out how much of your commercial sector is is suffering under covid. I mean, that's, you know, a good chunk of that is. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I talk to my coffee shops and they're they're having record years. Oh, really? OK. Yeah. Yeah, there are some that are doing really well with this. There are some that are not. Yeah. And like Judy's never even tried opening. Right. The chains are doing well. Yeah, national chains. They're doing well. Yeah. Yeah. But I can't say if you've seen the traffic. I see it outside my window, especially in the evening. The streets are pretty well packed. They're they're doing pretty well. I know they're more packed before covid, but they're not doing so badly. And the colleges, I think it's Amherst College that said that they're not even allowed to order out. I don't know if they've lifted that ban yet. Really? Yeah. No, the Amherst College is under a strict bubble. Very much. Yeah. Very much. And we have ambassadors that go out to make sure everybody's wearing their masks and actually handing them out and things. But the folks have been doing real well here as far as, you know, trying to adhere to the mask rules. I see almost everybody. Actually, I haven't seen anybody that wasn't trying to, you know, social distance and wear their mask. OK, anything else? Anything else from the principal assessor? Not that I can think of. We're doing well here, OK, you know, working hard. OK, and hopefully you'll be satisfied with the results that we come up with. Shall we talk about another day for a meeting? Do you want to do you want to meet with us before the 16th? Let's see here or after that's entirely up to you. And you, of course, are are are. Invited to come to these classification hearings. I'm going to have a classification hearing on the 16th. That's a scope, right? I'm sorry. That's the. Yes. Yeah, that will be a Zoom meeting. It's going to be Monday, Monday, November 16th. Will we be invited? Of course. OK, well, it's a public meeting. It is a public meeting. Yes. But I will make sure that you specifically get an invitation so you know that it's available. Good. And the. It's not required that you come, but certainly I would welcome your attendance. And I'll be meeting with the finance director, David and myself to go over the classification information and the residential exemption, etc. On the 9th to make sure it's meeting his recommendations and questions and so forth to make sure that we have everything in order. And I'm trying to remember when they vote on the classification. That night. Yeah. That night. And it begins at 6 30. Yes, 6 30. Yes. OK. This is the first thing, too, which is good. So is the finance director is that a permanent person now? Yes, it is. OK. His name is Sean Mangano, and he was in the Board of Education prior to this and finance. Yes, he was the finance director for the Amherst Pellum schools. OK, good. He got his feet wet soaked. Nation now. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that handling the finances for schools for the school district was not easy. So I'm proposing either Thursday, November 12th or Thursday, November 19th, depending on whether you want to see us before the classification meeting or after. Well, I have it penciled in here for you guys on the 12th. And that works out for you. All right. Well, that's OK. So that's three weeks away, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK. That works for you. Yeah. Yeah, that works. Third, I would love to bounce it off for you before I put it up on the big show. All right. So Thursday, November 12th at 11 a.m. Excellent. OK, I move to adjourn. Second. And it is 12 20 p.m. Anything else you got on your mind, Ken? No, I'm also too. OK, good. All right. OK. All right. Excellent. See you all later. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. OK, family does it up big. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye.