 I think with nutrition, if anything, once AI can get real time data, which already somewhat exists on blood sugar, catacolamine production, anxiety, so can that also monitor your psyche and your psychological reactions to foods and hunger and cravings, then it can anticipate and predict and give you the kind of coaching that only something that was totally tapped individualized and figure out all your deficiencies. That's going to take us to an interesting question because I feel like there's really good information in the world today. I think we could all say like, the information necessary to change, it lives in the world, whether it's on Google, whether it's from a coach, whether it's there's there's a resource out there for you for whatever you're desiring. So AI will take that to the next degree. Will humans still fuck that up? Of course. I think we will at the same rate or more. I agree. Yeah. And so I think it's going to prove what a lot of industry leaders are saying today, which is still not, it's not information. It is largely human behavior and most of coaching I think is coaching behaviors to match up with the intervention. It's the greatest thing that aligned us for sure. I mean, when we first all met, that was the thing that we were drawn to the message that you were presenting and it's the fight that we're still fighting when we get people online that want to debate and argue shit with us because they want to break down some study and argue. It's like, you're arguing the wrong thing with us. Yeah. It's like, I understand that study as well as you do, but we are trying to coach the behaviors because that's the biggest part. Well, peer-reviewed data is done in clinical settings and clinical settings are sterile, they're controlled and life is not sterile nor is it controlled. And so, you know, if we look at you under a microscope with, you know, very myopic setting, like everything is just, all the noise is blocked out, right? There's no stress. There's no distractions. All variables have been accounted for. And so we're studying one input relative to the output that it will create. Then we could argue a lot of things that don't hold up anecdotally in the real world. And then we go out to the real world and we have to account for variable stress. We have to account for life. We have to account for just things that will inevitably lead us to deviation from the intended plan. And the actions we take may not be aligned with the clinical data, yet they still might produce better outcomes. What's up everybody? Today's giveaway maps, prime and prime pro, both great programs for correctional exercise, great programs for trainers and coaches. Here's how you could win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Make sure you subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you do all those things and if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, we got a sale going on this month. Check this out. Maps 15 minutes, maps anywhere, maps, prime and our ebook eat for performance all together in a bundle that only costs $99.99. That's the savings of over $200. So you get all of that for that one price. If you're interested in, you should act now because this is a limited time. Click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. On the other end of that is then people will say, well, what about studies on real life people when they report with surveys and stuff like that? Horribly inaccurate. So we're kind of stuck in the middle with we have everything's measured. So we know what the factors are. We know what the controls are. And then everything's not measured, but it's reported and people historically consistently report what didn't happen or what wasn't like in the moment. So we're left with this middle, which is, which is what makes it so tough. Even with really smart AI coaching you at the end of the day, you have to do the work. So that part right there is always going to be the challenge until you don't have to do the work anymore. And I don't know if people are going to want to do it that way. What does that look like? Well, I think the whole dichotomy is super odd, right? If you just zoom way out and you get just really like in your head about the thoughts, it's like we're chasing subjective outcomes. And as coaches, we're trying not to be subjective. And so the average person is going to come to you and what are they going to say? Well, I want to lose weight. Tell me what to do. Right. I want to lose weight. That's that's pretty standard. OK. Well, do you want to lose a pound or lose a hundred pounds? Well, I want to lose 15 pounds. The coach is like, what the fuck? Like, why do you want to lose 15 pounds? We all know 15 pounds was never the end game. You want to, quote, unquote, look better, subjective. You want to, quote, unquote, feel better, subjective. You want to, quote, unquote, have a better life, subjective. Very few people can objectify those things, like if forced to do so right away. So you're chasing these monstrously subjective outcomes and we're trying to give you very objective inputs to get you there. Well, if you wake up in a good mood, all of a sudden you like the way you look. You like the way you feel and life is in a good spot. But if you wake up in a fucking bad mood, you hate the way you look. You hate the way you feel and life's in a bad spot, when in reality, nothing objectively actually fucking changed. And so everything we're doing is this pursuit of something that kind of doesn't exist. And so we're inputting all of these variables to hope that we land in a place that everybody is in agreement, that is, quote, unquote, good. And that's what makes our whole industry difficult. Even the objective points like bodybuilding, which are supposed to be very finite and objective, are subjective. We're putting you on stage in front of a bunch of dudes and women. And we're like, hey, you got no clothes on. And we're all we're subjectively saying you look good and you look bad. Yeah. And not to mention the subjective feeling that the bodybuilder is chasing. Well, if I win, then I'll feel this way. Right. Yeah. It's this is why the guidance and coaching. I used to tell clients who would say to me, you know, I want to lose weight. And then, you know, we go down the why, why, why train. And eventually it's like, well, so I'll be happy. And I'd say, well, you have to be happy in order to lose weight. So it's actually the reverse. It's not the objective creates a subjective subjective. The the state of mind is what creates the objective goal. And and that's a real hard concept for people to understand, especially because they imagine what life will be like. This is what people do, right? They think that life is going to be this particular way if they can accomplish this goal. This there's a there's a psychological phenomena is actually a term for it. I don't remember what it was, but we're like an athlete will train for ever their whole life and then the Olympics come up and they qualify. And it's like their dream to win a gold medal and they win. And they're extremely depressed shortly afterwards because what they created in their head for what this would be like really didn't pan out almost. It actually never does. Well, it's like the client, you know, male or female. And it's like, if I look a certain way, X, Y, Z things will happen. The opposite sex will like me more. I'll feel more confident. I'll like myself more, whatever. And all of a sudden you look a certain way, you hit a certain number on the scale, you go on a date, you get rejected. And all of a sudden the whole journey was for nothing. Yeah. But it's because that was the outcome that you artificially placed on the whole journey. When in reality you got healthier, you lost weight, you do in fact probably look a little better. You probably feel better, you know, your physiology is in a better place. Yet because that wasn't the solution that you were looking for, the whole journey was for naught. And so it becomes extremely difficult as a coach. And this is why I believe coaches will always have utility because I think that the whole journey is far less about the outcome. It is far more about the journey. It is getting people connected inside of the journey and helping them understand the journey is what they were always after in the first place. I mean, you know, we're all entrepreneurs in here, right? At the end of the day, when we first set out, we're like, I want to make a million dollars. And I don't know if you remember the first time you looked at your bank account, you saw a million dollars. It was very, for me, it was a big let down. Like the very first day I had a million dollars in my bank account. I like I had transferred money from business account to personal account. I'm like, cool, I'm a millionaire. Like nothing at all fucking changed. Yeah. Well, I talk about that on the show all the time that the most depressing time in my life was when I reached the dollar amount that I thought I needed or I wanted my whole life. Because then it was like, you have this whole life ahead of you for what? Because that didn't do shit for you. And it's most people are like that in their dietary journey. They set these very artificial outcomes and they're like, oh, that would be the best. And it's like what people imagine what people imagine is a is a snapshot. So this is how it works, right? They think of a frozen moment in time, 30 pounds lighter, feeling good. Everything looks great or whatever. It's always moving. Life is always going on. And so it's always going to be about the journey, whether you like it or not. What percentage would you say of someone's satisfaction or happiness or joy comes from the actual journey itself, which includes struggle, challenge, failure, growth, learning, acceptance versus the goal? What percentage goes to the journey? What percentage goes to the accomplishing the goal that you set out to accomplish? I don't think that you ever really accomplish your goals, because the minute you get to a goal, you you realize there's another one ahead of you. So I think it's a hundred percent journey. You know, if we're looking at it that way, I I think that the people I admire most, you know, last time we were here, I talked about like my whole like I still have body issues at 38 years old. I admire the people most that can put on body fat and be like, it's part of the journey and not give a fuck. Like I struggle with that so hard. And it's like they're just doing it because it's part of the journey. They're not so tied to the immediate outcome. And I think regardless, people that can truly live and not be tied to immediate outcomes, and by the way, the greatest predictor of success is the ability to delay gratification. And I think that people that ultimately become successful long term, I don't I don't think Bezos thinks he's made it yet. I don't think the Zucks thinks he's made it yet. You know, the person that won Mr. Olympia this year, Hoddy, I don't think he thinks he made it yet. He probably got off stage and was starting to think about working for next year. It was just a check mark in the journey. And he's delaying the gratification. The gratification comes like when life is over, when like all of the things that I did, the sum of the whole was what I was really after. And I think most dieters kind of need to look at it that way. And that again, that in and of itself removes the word diet because it's, oh, I just ate a certain way to live a certain way and ultimately chase the things I wanted. And this whole thing we call life matters. There's where balance comes from, by the way, with I balance comes from understanding that because sometimes you eat a particular way because I'm with friends and I'm enjoying myself other times, I'm eating a particular way because I want to perform better in the gym or get leaner or improve my gut health. So that's how the balance, people always talk about balance. That's why that's why a lot of people go so extreme from one end to the other and don't have that. But that's the real definition of balance. It's not that you ate a fucking burger or had a glass of wine or anything like that. Like the notion of like the action of consuming a very specific thing, that doesn't make balance. It's being present and in the moment and understanding that this moment is one of millions that you will experience over the next several years and just having it be a part of the journey, not, not looked at as good or bad. I think labeling is the worst thing we did. You know, I had a client once, one thing I used to love about personal training that I miss the most. Actually, the one thing that I miss is that I would learn so much from people. I train people from all walks of life and, you know, people will be successful in different ways. And so I got to ask them questions while I was training. I had this gentleman that I trained. He was at this point, he was retired, very, it was a self-made, successful, like, you know, 100 millionaire or whatever. And I asked them, I said, what, what's one, like, give me one piece of advice. Like, how did you, how did you succeed so much? He says, you got to ask me the right questions first. I said, well, what question should I ask you? He says, ask me how many times I failed. So I said, how many times did you fail? He's like, well, I went bankrupt up to this time. I went bankrupt up to this time. The loans and savings scandal and this happened. He goes, I've started over so many different times. I said, well, how did you do that? How did you not just give up? Cause I like doing it. Every time I had to start over, it was fun for me. So it was all about that. And I didn't fully understand it at the time. I think it was 19 or 20 when I first heard that. But the thing I did get out of that was that failing wasn't the end. And so it kept me kind of going. But I think the most successful people you'll find in the truest sense, understand that. You talk to people who work out and eat right, you know, quote unquote, you right for 10 to 10 years, 20 years, ask them why they still do it. I guarantee you the top five or 10 things is not look good, ripped, you know, six pack abs or whatever. It's usually like mental health and it makes me feel good. And it's something that adds quality to my life. And it's like, you go down the list and it's like, oh, I look buffed or whatever. Well, I think that every pursuit, the why you do it, it changes at times. You know, like when you think all the way back to when we were 16 years old and we all got our first jobs, right? Why do we do it? It was to like have some money. Right. That was it. Right. Just to have some money. And then it was like, well, now it's to sustain myself. Well, now it's to sustain myself and a family. Then it's to put away money to sustain my family beyond my time on this earth. And it's like, you're still doing the same inputs, right? You may be doing them differently, but it's just for different reasons. The reality is we're always going to have to do certain things. The end of the day, we got to wake up in the morning. We got to go through the next 24 hours and we just continue to repeat it. And the reality is whether we want that to happen or not, it's going to fucking happen. Right? Until the day comes that we're all not here anymore. Days are going to happen. And so if you're trying to put like a hard stop as to the actions you're taking inside of those days, like, I did it, I'm done. What the fuck are you going to do with the rest of your day? So given the nature of like all of the subjective stuff that you have to kind of figure out with your clients, like how different really are we than life coaches? I mean, you're familiar with life coaches and what they've accomplished. And to be honest, I'm really, I always try to understand like what is what is a life coach? Like where do they start? How do they ultimately what is the end game for them? You know, currently I probably spend equal parts time. You know, I coach nutrition coaches, so I'm heavily invested in the nutrition side and making sure we're up to date on that. But I also am trying to help them grow their business. And so even as a business coach, it's like, well, what's the end game? And I actually, and if you've been to any of my events recently, I'm of the opinion that all of us in the business side have been fucking that space up for like the last two years in the sense of saying, like, make X amount of dollars. Because now we're we're no better than the diet coach saying lose X amount of pounds. Yeah, we're getting you to an output. Like we're getting you to an outcome. And we all know in here making money and building business are completely different things. Well, losing weight on the scale and long term being successful are also two very different things. So as a life coach, like I'm maybe they're way ahead of our game where they're not talking about very specific outcomes and they truly are talking about the journey. I think there's elements where coaches are really just helping you avoid your own pitfalls, right? I mean, at the end of the day, I say it all the time in in our level one. The very first statement I make is I'm not going to teach you anything on day one on the education side that you can't find in Google. Physiology textbooks have been written, biology textbooks have been written. Metabolism, maybe we understand it better today, but the science of metabolism has not changed. Like we as humans do not operate differently than we did a hundred years ago. The internal workings are the exact fucking same. And so it's our understanding that has to change. It's the way that we take that understanding and communicate it and apply it that has to change. And really good coaches are the ones that can take the principles that create success, whatever success is extremely arbitrary term. They they can take those principles and apply them in a manner that leaves the consumer understanding and then in an ability to also apply, which, when done correctly, will continue to make the world a better place. I said yesterday to our group, if you think about it, Tony Robbins, he had Jim Rohn, but he didn't have Tony Robbins. There was no Tony Robbins before Tony Robbins, right? There was there was no Hormozi before Hormozi. There was no Zuckerberg before Zuckerberg, right? There was no Bezos before Bezos. Like they had to be like the pioneer. And I think if everybody does their job correctly and they put all the resources of everything they've learned over a long period of time so that a generation behind them can do it in a shorter period of time, our world is going to continue to improve and go all the way back to the conversation we were having about AI. That's effectively what's happened. People have learned things that will now allow the generation behind them to do things at a faster rate, more effectively. And I think that truly is what the game has to do. How do you how do you teach coaches? Because it's very similar, right? Coaches are trying to teach clients this and you're trying to teach coaches this. How do you teach coaches to enjoy the journey and devalue the journey more than the result of making X amount of dollars? That's a really good question. Try telling that to somebody who just missed rent, you know, the month before or whatever, right? Straight away to get by. So I've been really big on the whole notion of desires and needs. And I think that how I think most coaches make money from a place of desire, early on, right? If you think back to the first time we became a trainer or coach, we didn't need money. Like in life, we have very simple needs. We need to eat, we need to drink, we need to sleep, we need to breathe and we need a little bit of shelter. Right? That's that's pretty much it. I mean, there's there's bombs on the street that are surviving. They're they're living. So when we went out, we had this passion to help people. We had this desire to help people and it resulted in getting paid because we delivered a service that was of value and there was a monetary exchange. All of a sudden, we have this money in our bank account and we now get this little bit of sense of entitlement that I could spend this money a certain way. And we also create this illusion in our head that the money we just made is going to become a steady stream of income and in, you know, infinite amounts of time. So, you know, if you do your first 10k month, oh, it means I'm going to make 10k months the rest of my life. It doesn't always work like that, but you build that thought in your head. And so you start spending as if you're making $10,000. Well, the problem with that is now you have a need to pay those bills, right? Or they repel your car or they evict you or, you know, your credit score goes down, whatever it is. And so now you have now you actually need money. So now the whole frame by which you're playing has changed. You're no longer taking actions purely based from desire. You're not doing it out of wanting to help people and wanting to create results. In your head, you're telling yourself that you're still trying to play from the same frame of desire, but the simple truth is you need money. You've mismanaged finance. You've mismanaged the whole journey. And so my whole goal really with coaches to understand if we can always have you playing from a place of desire, which means you're making the money, you're investing it properly, right? You're growing at a rate that is sustainable, not one that forces hires, that forces you to take on more clients, forces you to spend more time in your business than you desire. But you're always playing from a place of desire. There is no end game of success and there's no limit on success. You will continue to grow. So it's managing because you're saying need. But really what it is is they've turned their wants into needs. It's really managing your wants. I've heard that, by the way, that's old wisdom. That's old wisdom is where people say, you know, if you want to be happy, don't don't try to get more and try to want less. And that's usually the answer, you know, that actually happens with professional athletes. This has been well documented where someone plays baseball or football because they love it, then all of a sudden they get paid for it and it's their job and they stop enjoying it. It's no longer this thing that they have this deep passion for. So I think that's a real important starting point. And it's been well documented. Jason didn't just invent this, by the way. This is something that we've kind of known about for a while. No, you know, it's interesting in my own journey as a golfer, right? When I was in my 20s, I quote, unquote needed to be successful because I was my livelihood at the time, right? And I was trying to make it as a professional golfer and I went out and I sucked shit. And like recently in the last five years, I've like rekindled it. I'm actually really fucking good, but I don't need it. You're better than you were. I actually believe I am like, I, you know, I'm older. So it's, I don't have maybe the physical abilities that I have. Then I've got a much better mindset and I can produce better. I can produce equal outcomes, sometimes better outcomes today, which is actually why I think that I don't need golf. I don't need the money. And you're not just golfing now. You have a business. You have. Right. And so when I'm there, I'm genuinely enjoying it. I love the opportunity. It is a pure sense of desire. And like, yeah, do I want to play professionally again? I absolutely do. So to come full circle, if you're, if you're doing something because you feel like you need to versus because you really want to and you have a desire for it, even if the outcomes are identical, even if you're playing golf just as good as you did before, the difference now is you enjoy the journey. Yeah. Whereas before the journey wasn't as enjoyable. And it's shifted from a need to a want, right? And so here's the reality. You take somebody that's overweight and they need to lose weight. Like they need to, like, let's be honest. You don't get to 400 pounds in your life. That's without, at some point, the doctor's like, you need to lose weight. Yeah. And the reality is, why do you keep fucking doing it? Why do you keep gaining weight? Why do you keep eating shit? Like, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put a big Mac in front of you and a salad in front of you and for you to make the right decision. The real question to be answered is why can't you make the right decision? Punishing yourself. There's there's so many fucking answers to that, right? That's a rabbit hole we could do hours on. But at the end of the day, why are you doing it? And so when we get into that, then somebody actually starts to lose weight. And they never felt like they were being punished in the process. So like, no, I actually wanted to lose weight. Think about the biggest loser. Remember that show? Yeah. We just dated ourselves. Like a lot of people don't remember it. Like, we're just a generation that might not remember it now. It's not on anymore. It's still on. They still run it, don't they? Do they? Yeah, they do. Doug pulled up. They still run Biggest Loser, right? Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah. What's his face? What's his face was the one of the recent trainers, Steve Cook? Cook and no shit. It's turn two, whatever it is. Love, yeah. That's such like, that's like, it must be like when when when cops watch like cop shows, like for trainers to watch Biggest Loser. Oh, it's so hot. It's like, oh, that's how it works, dude. That's not the best way. If you think about it, it's the clear depiction of what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah. They were shamed into losing weight and they hated the process. Right. There is no human on earth that's like, I fucking love working out eight hours a day and starving myself. Yeah, like nobody loves that shit, right? But what happens? They all gain the weight back. We've all seen this dance. I mean, the actual success rate is like two or three percent. Their success rate is they have no different of a success rate than anybody else loses that way. No, and they were in isolation. It's worse. It's not better. It's actually I think it's worse. It is worse. It is worse. Like I think in the first year, it's like 80 something percent. And then by year five, it's like nine. It's funny too, because for all intents and purposes, you would think, well, they're going to be more motivated. They were on TV. They won this contest and they did it. And now they're known for it. Nope. So let me let me take that a step further and now put yourself in the mindset of a coach that's in the space right now. And we all say we get paid on results. And I'm a very big believer. Your product needs to produce results, right? You create a viral product. You build a business. What is the result? Yeah, that's because because now with what we're saying, if somebody is not losing weight, but they love getting on a call with you every week and they're enjoying the journey, and maybe they're not symmetric micro incremental progress, are we winning? Yeah. You got to get back to my time. I had clients. I literally had a client that maybe lost five pounds in three years with me. And she was like, you changed my life. Yeah. And I was like, what? I was like, I banged my head against the wall every week after we got off the call because I couldn't get you to fucking lose weight. But now I think back on it. And I'm like, you know what? I made you not hate health and fitness. Right. That's huge. And that's a win. That's huge. That was such a game changer for me when I figured that out. And one of the ways I applied it was because people are not fully aware of all of the benefits of what they're doing. So they tend to look at the scale. Am I losing weight? Like anyway, if I'm not doing either and it's not going towards that goal, then I'm not succeeding. So I just have to point things out to people. And the way I would do is I would just ask questions. Hey, how's your sleep been? Oh, actually, it's been a lot better. And I noticed you went hiking over the weekend. When was the last time you did that? You're right. I got way more energy. And I would have to ask questions because if I just pointed it out, I think it wasn't as effective. They'd have to kind of figure out themselves. But they started to see the full breadth of the value of what was going on. And then that got them to enjoy and have a different relationship with what they were doing. And you're right. I had clients. I had one guy I trained for four years. And he lost 30 pounds. But he lost 30 pounds in the last six months of that four-year period. And I still keep in contact with him. I still friends with him. So this was 15 years ago. And he's never gained it back. Crazy. He's still doing it. He's still exercising. He loves it. He got from a point where somebody would offer him a cookie. And he'd say, I can't. To now, he's like, no, I don't want that. Totally different place. That's the result that I think you need to look for. The conversation we're having too also highlights why we get asked a lot when we, about 75 hard, right? So real popular thing that's out there on the internet that everybody does. And we tend to kind of shit on it as far as like not a fan of, and this is why though, like what we're talking about right now is because it does not promote a healthy relationship with the journey. Correct. It's this punish yourself for 75 days and prove to yourself you could be hard by doing all these very difficult things, which, and I'm not saying that there's not value in learning to push yourself to certain limits, but from our experience of teaching people to get in shape and the people that gravitate towards that type of program, this is not the best approach. If you want to. Pragmatic way we could. Not if you want to make this a lifelong journey. That's it. We need to define that works when someone says, oh, this works, like let's define that little better. Bingo. How does that work? What do you mean that works? Oh, I lost 30 pounds. Well, what happened? I gained it back. Didn't work. Right, yeah. Works for me means it's gone forever. It shifted your relationship with health and fitness to the point you're making. At NCI, what I tell you on both days of the cert is I'm never going to define your success as a coach in 10 weeks. I'm going to define your success as a coach as to where your client is in five to 10 years. If they've taken the tools and skills and resources you gave them, and they're still successful, meaning they've kept the weight off, they're still enjoying health and fitness, and it's still a journey, you're a good coach. If you can get somebody ripped in 10 weeks, but then they fall right back into bad habits, you did absolutely nothing. Nothing. You gave them a bandaid for a temporary moment in a life. They've got a fucking gaping flesh wound. You got it to shut for 10 weeks, and now it's real. And I would argue you actually did them more of a disservice because the more times, and the data shows us, the more times somebody loses weight or gets somewhere and gains it back and comes out of it, the more times that happens, the more likely they are each time to never try again. So and one of the... It also promotes long-term weight loss resistance. Now that's physiological, right? I'm talking about just the fact a person gives up. So one of the biggest challenges with the health and fitness space is not getting people to lose weight. It's not even getting people to keep it off, although I'd say that's probably number two. It's getting people to try because eventually people give up. There's a huge segment of the population that doesn't want to try ever again because they've tried it so many different times. We can never touch them. We can never help them because they just totally give up. And to get them to try again takes almost like an act of a miracle. And why? Because we screwed them over. We totally messed them up through this process. How hard, let me ask you this because I know what I think, okay? But I'd love to hear what you think. Why does our space not teach it this way? Why do they focus on the lose at 30 pounds now, 75 hard? Listen to me for 10 weeks and I'll get you where you wanna go. Why do they focus on that? And why don't they focus on what we're talking about right now? It's purely financial. Way easier to sell, isn't it? It's much easier to sell. You know, put yourself in the shoes. When did you get into health and fitness? 14. 14. Yeah, so almost 30 years ago. And what did you want out of health and fitness? Like what was your first big desire? I wanted to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Okay, so if the marketer says I can make you look like Arnold in 12 weeks and then somebody else says- I bought hella products that said that. 100%, right? Yeah, that's been a lot of money. And then somebody else is like, well, it's gonna take you 20 years. Or you'll never- Or you'll never probably- Or you'll never come close to looking like Arnold. And then you're gonna discover steroids and maybe you'll look like Arnold. Like you're like, yeah, fuck you. Right? You're the 10 week guy, the 12 week guy. So it's human nature to want the quick fix. I got a story around that, Jason. So at 14, I became obsessed and I wanted to get big or whatever. And I train, train, train, train. When I was 16, so that's after two years of training or whatever, my dad had a friend who was a chiropractor and he was a bodybuilder. He was just real jacked. Real jacked, no, it wasn't Franco Colombo, I wish. But it was this real jack dude, his name was Joe. Real super night, one of the nicest people ever met. And my dad brought him home one day for dinner with his family and he was so excited to introduce me because my dad knew that I worked out. So I'm like, this guy's gonna tell me the secrets. Like, hell yeah, he's a family friend. Like, I'm gonna figure this out. And I sat down with him and he said, Joe sat me down and he goes, okay, you wanna get big? I said, yeah, I wanna get super big. All right, this is what you gotta do. He goes, you should lift weights three days a week. You should do full body. He goes, you need to eat a lot of chicken, eggs, drink a lot of milk. Make sure you eat a lot of food, get like eight hours of sleep every single night. And that was the conversation. I swear to God, I thought- You were so pissed. I thought he was so full of shit. I said, why don't you, I said, he won't tell me? Like, why? Like, why won't he tell me? Like, what to do? Like this guy's so full of crap. I totally thought he was blowing me off. He gave me the best advice I could ever receive. Absolutely. And I didn't listen- Just weren't ready for it yet. Not only was I, I mean, obviously, I think he could have done a better job selling it. Maybe, I'm not gonna put it on him, but I was a kid and I was hard headed. I thought I knew it all, always. But it's funny that now had he said to me, oh, Sal, you want to get big? There's this $200 supplement stack that you can take. Oh, you've done it. Are you kidding me? I would have gone in my- You'd have stolen the money that you needed and you'd have gone. Dude, I would have done it. I would have done whatever it took to get that $200 to buy the shitty supplements that would have done nothing for me. Dude, I'll never forget. So there's, I also have questions on that too, because to some degree, we have to get people to commit to get in the journey. And so, as a marketer, there's this fine line, because we always say, sell them what they want, give them what they need. That's been said many times over, but there's a fine line of we have to at least bait them into having the conversation or- You still have to maintain your integrity. Yeah, but it's like, there's a super fine line. So I think back to me overcoming anorexia was sold on something so absurd. Like the day that I overcame anorexia was 48 hours out of having a clinical intervention. Like my mom and my pediatrician were going to like take me to a clinic. And the trainer at the gym, there's a bodybuilder that would come in every day and he was a, he was a band of weight. All right, it's like small 145 pound dude. But he jacked and like, I mean, he's like two feet tall, but like jacked and like ripped, right? He was prepping for nationals. And I would tell her every day, I'm like, I want to look like him. And she just straight up lied to me. And it was like, I coach him. I do his nutrition and I do his training. And I was like, fuck, can you do mine? Like, you know, I want to look like that. And she was like, yeah. And I was like, what do I do? And she's like, go eat 4,000 calories. Horrible advice for anorexic. But I was like, wait, this 4,000 calories gets me like that. She's like, yeah, and I'm done. And that was what did it. And like she knew nothing about eating disorders. She knew nothing about my current state. She didn't coach this motherfucker at all. Like she was like his best friend. But she was like, I'm going to try to save you. We have to sell the right ideas and the right methods better than they sell the bad ideas. This is what makes a good coach a great coach. It's not that you have necessarily the right intentions and you know the right way. That's great. That's a starting point. But if you can't sell it, and what I mean by sell it is not that they buy something from you. That's selling too, but that's not what I'm talking about. They have to really like believe you and adopt what you're saying. If you can't sell it, you're worthless. You're not helping anybody. And so that's constantly what we try to do on the show. Constantly is we try to take an idea that we know is right. And then what we do through thousands of episodes is because we sell fat loss, muscle gain, health, I mean in every episode, right? We talk about the same thing every single time. But we sell it differently every time and we try to sell it in a way that's effective. One thing that I said years ago that people will say, oh, I heard this before and this made so much sense. As I say, if you chase aesthetics, you'll lose your health and eventually you'll lose your aesthetics. If you chase health, then you'll gain the aesthetics and you'll gain the health. Now, what am I basically doing? I'm talking to the person who just wants to look good. How do I sell them on chasing health? Well, I'm gonna tell them they're gonna look better. Hey, if you're healthy, you're gonna look better. That's true, but it was a sneaky way to sell that they got to go in this direction. Most coaches struggle with that. Most coaches don't want to learn that. They hear marketing and they hear sales and they think they're dirty words, right? And they think most early coaches, well, they do that, I don't want to sound salesy. You kidding me? That was our struggle when we would train trainers. The struggle was always getting a trainer and teaching them how to sell. Because I don't want to sell, I just want to help people. Here's the real issue though. You're fucking useless if you can't sell. No, you can't help anybody. Imagine having the cure for cancer, but you can't get anybody to run the study. You can't get a hospital to take you to medicine. What you're doing, what you're saying? You can't get anybody to take it. And the shit actually worked. And so as a coach, you have these resources people need. And I'm of the opinion that coaches are ethically obligated to learn marketing and sales. If you can look yourself in the mirror every single morning and you can say, I definitively have the solution to change somebody's life. Fuck you, you're an asshole if you don't learn marketing and sales. Well, especially if you really want to impact a significant amount of people, otherwise you're going to end up helping two or three people and that's it. If you want to help anybody. Look, until we can get to the matrix where you can plug my brain into yours and then you get what else we're not far away. Yeah, maybe, right? But until that happens, all we have are words. All we have is communication. And if I can't, so by the way, here's another, and I'm very open about this. I actually tell this to trainers so that they get what I'm talking about. I don't even say sales because I know people trainers get turned off the second I say sales. I say effective communication. I love that. By the way, effective communication sales, okay? And I tell people that. When I tell trainers that, I say, I'm gonna use a word that sounds, or two words that sound better than sales, effective communication. Then all of a sudden their ears open up. What am I doing to you? I'm selling you sales. I'm selling you that you need to get good at sales. And all I had to do was change the verbiage a little bit. Politicians are great at this, by the way. There's a lot you can learn from them. I changed the verbiage so I can get you to hear what I'm saying. Because the minute I say sales to a trainer who just wants to help people, they shut off. Not realizing that the only way you're gonna help anybody is by being an effective salesperson by communicating effectively. You have to sell the right ideas better than people sell the wrong ideas. And you have to do this constantly. Your coaching is constant sales. They might not be buying something from you constantly. You're selling commitment of action. You're selling them constantly, how they change behaviors, on why they feel a particular way, why they need to keep going down this path. It's constant sales. This is what a trainer is. A trainer is a salesperson. So would you agree that the single biggest skill set lacking in most coaches is the ability to effectively communicate? Yeah, of course. Are you kidding me? 100%. When I do talks to trainers, we did this before the pandemic, I would go to these gyms. It was just free, we just did it for fun. And I would always ask the trainers, I'd have a group of 15, 20 trainers. I would do 20 for our fitnesses, I went to goals, whatever. And they'd say, tell me the top characteristics of a successful trainer. As defined by, they're able to support themselves well, their clients get lifelong results. And they'd tell me things like, knowledgeable, inspirational, motivational, empathetic, and I'd read them all down. And I'd say, these are all great, but there's one thing that's more important than that. And I'd say, sales. And everybody would be like, oh, I got to sell stuff. And I'd say, no. And then the whole talk. Communication. Exactly what we're talking about right now. Cause if you can't do that, you suck. You're not going to be effective. I was a more effective trainer than other trainers who knew far more than I did, simply because I could get buy-in for someone I did. Here, I mean, that's the things, every workout, every interaction you have is an opportunity to have that effective communication. And you have to keep doing that every single time that you meet with them. So it's like, it doesn't go away. The whole premise of NCI was built off of this. Yeah, I know. That's why we like you guys. You know, when we wrote NCI late 2016, early 2017, PN existed. And I couldn't go out and be like, well, I'm going to rewrite the textbook. Like shout out to JB and his partners. They did an amazing job. Textbook is phenomenal. It is backed with all the best physiology, science, biology, metabolism, information in the world. But the real problem is why was the success rate still so low? Why were there still coaches that sucked? And the reality was like, it didn't matter purely how smart you were. It was more, how could you take the information and apply it? And then inside of that application, how do you take that and actually connect to your clients? And so we teach what we call the connection-based model, which at the core of it is effective communication. Like that is the cornerstone of success. Because if you can't facilitate compliance, I don't give a shit how good your program is. It's not going to work. It doesn't matter. Look, the reality is this. Take the most knowledgeable coach, PhD, knows everything, physiology, biology, whatever. They're just super knowledgeable. The reality is also the reality. The reality is that they will utilize 1% of that knowledge for the average person. Maybe. Amen. Maybe. All that complex knowledge, you're going to find yourself almost never using it. What you're going to be focusing a lot on is how you can get Mrs. Johnson to not eat right before bed and eat her Cheetos or whatever she enjoys. Or how she can not binge drink or feel better about herself. That's where you're going to spend all your time. That's what cracks me up about the industry today. If you look around the industry, you'll see coaches touting all of their knowledge around PCOS, thyroid and hormones in there. You got fucking quote unquote experts popping up in every, I can read your labs. And I'm like, we'll do labs on you, but you should stop eating a fucking donut before bed. Like we can certainly dig into your GI map and your fucking stool tests, right? You wanna shit a jar? Let's do it. But like, let's stop fucking eating donuts before bed because that might be a better solution before we have asked to analyze your poop. Yeah. No, this is an important conversation. It's really, when you're a coach, you wanna imagine that you're walking through a treacherous mountain and you're leading someone that is completely blindfolded. And they have to trust you when you say step here, don't step there. Walk this way, don't walk that way. I know it's hard. I know it's exhausting right now, but this is the right way. I know that over there. I know you moved your foot over there and it feels like it's real easy and smooth. Don't go down that way. That's not the right way. And if the person isn't willing to hold on to you and just follow and listen and hear and accept the growth, accept the personal responsibility, you're not gonna be able to help anybody. That's why today, with all the information that we have, with all the interventions that we have, even with all the new medications that are coming out for weight loss, the fail rate is not just the majority, it's a massive majority. The fail rate is north of 85%. I would even argue it's closer to 95%. We know more, we have more accessible food and medicine and drugs and this and that. And the fail rate's always gonna stay that way until people understand this. We hold, we have the answers. The people in the fitness space, we have the answers to the chronic health conditions that plague modern societies. And I just talked about obesity because that's what everybody thinks obesity. What are the chronic health conditions that affect modern society? Depression, anxiety. Anxiety, substance abuse and you can put food, substance abuse underneath that. And then you have obesity and all those other ones. The solution to those does not exist anywhere other than our space. Anywhere. And it's until we become honest that it's never gonna be solved. Now, the problem is, is how are we gonna get coaches to be more effective at selling that to the average person than the other people? It's not gonna happen because the person, the consumer is like, you know what? I don't wanna lose 30 pounds in 30 days. I want it to take three years. I think that's what I wanna do. That's not gonna happen. It's never gonna happen. You gotta sell them better. You gotta present something that they look at two things and they go, I like this one better. And that's your job. That's your job as a coach and a trainer. And people that don't certification courses and courses that don't teach trainers and coaches that, they are training and conditioning and raising a generation of failures. And I don't say that lightly. And I don't mean failures or these are bad people. These are people, these are coach, people who enter into the fitness space do so because they have a deep desire and passion to help people. That's a fact. This is like art. Nobody gets into it because they love it. But the truth is if you don't learn this or you don't teach this as a course, you're going to raise a generation of failures. Do you guys remember, do you remember what you used to say to someone like that? Like what was the, when you get somebody like the, that comes in, they're like hard up on, I wanna lose 30 pounds as fast as I possibly can. Do you remember like with your conversation sounded like? Oh yeah. You know, it got to the point where I would say something like, yeah, we could totally do that. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna have you, I'm gonna chain you to the treadmill and then you're not gonna eat. And then they'd laugh. And I'd say, no, that's kind of silly. I'd say, well, we can get weight off you fast or we can get weight off you permanently. So which one do you wanna do? And then it would open up a conversation. Early trainer, me would be like, yes, I'll do whatever you want. Like I was an order taker. Of course. Which is- Well, you wanted the business, right? And it's like, quote unquote needed the money and the whole thing. You know, real quick to what you were saying, I had a conversation with a guy named Mike DeMora this morning. He owns like NCEP. It's a trainer certification. And he's trying to get into space and he's trying to compete with the Nazems of the world. And he gave me an amazing statistic, right? 1.4 certified personal, like 1.4 million certified personal trainers. I don't know what the time domain was on that. 1.2 million of which are not practicing. Yeah. Like that's astounding. Why? Because out of 1.2 certified, 1.2 million not practicing, like 200 and something thousand actually practicing. And the simple reality is it's because, in my opinion, I think the PT side is just as flawed as the nutrition side in the sense that most of them are learning physiology. They're not learning what it's like to be on the floor and create programs. And like, and you know, you've got guys like Jordan and I think Mike's doing this very well in his program, but you got guys like Jordan shallow that are changing that. You know, you've got, there's all their certifications are very application based that are actively trying to change out in the space. And I think that that's where the industry has to go. But I also want to go back to your like, your mountain analogy, right? Like being the Sherpa. We talk about that in dietary methodologies all the time. And you know, if we use Everest as the analogy, what does everybody think about Everest? You think about the summit, except it's the journey to the summit that will make or break your success, not what you do at the summit. So if we took and we analyzed what people climbing Everest did and we only focused on the last thousand feet, would we create success for people? No, no. No, because we need to figure out what's happening at the base, what's happening at summit one, summit two, like we have to figure out what's happening at each of these base camps. And by the way, those people didn't pay to get dropped off at the top with a helicopter. Right, so like when you get them to the top, you also did, they also didn't get paid to like get left there, right? And this is what everybody fucking forgets. Coaches, like you're not paid to get your clients to a result and then fucking kick them off the mountain. See you later. I hope you die. Can you imagine the Sherpa does it? All right, we're here. He's like, yo, dope, goodbye. Yeah, get down by yourself. No, you, there's a transition into quote unquote life and it has to become sustainable. And so I don't think anybody is excited that they summited Everest and then died on the spot. People are like, no, I summited Everest and I lived to tell about it and it's a part of my journey. And so people are like, I lost 30 pounds and I'm here to tell you about it because I kept the 30 pounds off. You wanna hear something that pisses off trainers? They've done studies on this and they'll take people who struggle with weight, obese individuals who struggle with weight loss and they've compared successful weight loss, long-term weight loss when they see a therapist, no coaching and training and nutrition to working with a trainer. Which one do you think has a higher success rate? Therapist, 100%. Therapist, 100%. Trainers hate that. They hate hearing that because like I know how to work out, like I know how to eat right. But as a trainer, when I read that, when I saw those studies and I read that data and I heard that data, that was like a light bulb for me. Oh, shit. I'm not focusing on the root causes and behaviors. Imagine if I figured some of that out and combined it with my knowledge of nutrition and exercise. Oh my God, my success. By the way, there's a myth that is widely believed by people in our space that if they do it the way that we're talking about, they're gonna make less money. So they think, oh, you know, I know it's great and I wanna do that, but I also wanna make a lot of money. No, I'm gonna tell you this right now. If you do it the right way and you do it the right right way, you make more money. And it's easier and it's faster. When I did it the other way as a trainer, and I've always been convincing. So I could always sell, right? And in the sense of selling products and stuff. And yes, and I did very well, but I would lose clients, have to get new clients, new clients had to get new. When I figured this out for reels, I had to raise my prices to ridiculous rates because I couldn't get people to stop trying to hire me. People hired me and stayed with me for 12 years. They did not wanna stop. Or they would work with me intermittently to come check in with me because they were continuing down this journey. So the money actually becomes easier and more consistent. One of the biggest challenges that coaches and trainers run into is the consistency of income. Like how do I keep this going? Cause I feel like I gotta grind every single two or three months when these people fall off, this is how you do it. So you suck. Yeah. That's because you suck. You're not doing it right. Like the reality is you're not creating a result. You don't know how to communicate the process. You don't know how to facilitate a result. And when you can't communicate and connect to your client and they don't get what they wanted out of the journey which is partially your fault too because you didn't allow proper expectations for the journey, right? I mean, we have to understand it's not our client's fault. They come in on day one and they're like, I'm gonna lose 30 pounds in 10 weeks because that's all the advertisements tell me. And so if you don't reframe that expectation early on you're no better than any other trainer in the world regardless of what your protocols are. Your protocols probably are really good. They're probably on the track they should be on but if you haven't communicated that properly then it's going to end up in mismatch expectations in most relationships and based on mismatch expectations. You know what's reminds me of I heard this one therapist once say, I remember what it was, I think it was on Instagram talking about married couples and arguments and they were saying, you know, you get an argument with your wife or your husband is your goal to win the argument or is your goal to move forward together as a couple? And I said, oh God, that was a good paradigm shattering for me, right? Cause when you're an argument you just want to win but you got to live with this person for the rest of your life. So yeah, I won the argument and I hate me and we're not really moving forward. You're not really winning. Right, so when you're working with your client and you're communicating with them this is something to consider. When you're working with a client and you're trying to communicate with them always think how can I move this forward in the right way? And sometimes that means we need to move a step backwards. Like not that I got to be right cause I used to try to be right a lot as a trainer. I mean, I talk about this famous example I brought it up so many times I feel so guilty about it. That's probably why I bring it up. It's like me, you know, it's a little self-flagellation that I do every once in a while but there was this woman that I knew she was lying. She was lying to me about what she was tracking. She kept gaining weight, her husband finally came and told me, yes, Al, she's eating food. She's not putting it in her jar. And I had to talk with her and I made her cry. And I said, listen, you're not, if you're gaining weight on this then we need to take you to Stanford because you're creating, you know, you're creating tissue out of the thin air and we've never observed this in physics. And she cried and I felt so justified and she never came back, never came back. She, and I never, and I realized, man, at least before she was coming like twice a week to work out, man, I helped no one. I felt great in the moment. Cause you were right. But I've lost, I lost and I lost her. And who knows if she ever, and I hope she listens to the podcast, sorry about that. But she probably never worked with a trainer or coach again or she probably waited 10 years to try again. I'm interested. So I think, cause you guys have a good amount of audience that there's not trainers, right? These are people here like looking for their own solutions to change their own. 80. And so the majority of like the mindset that we've talked about is from the trainer perspective. I think that, you know, using the marriage example, it's, you know, arguments, neither side should be trying to win. So what side does the client now start to play on this? Because there's, there's client psychology too, right? And so there's, if there's 80% of people listening to this that are trying to facilitate change, I promise you, and this is no knock on anybody listening, but at some point you've blamed a program and or a coach. And at what point can we help them facilitate the ownership and realization that they also have to look in the mirror and accept their component or their part in the journey? Yeah. So Jason, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Okay. What we just did right now wasn't communicating to coaches. I was communicating to the consumer. So it's a very effective strategy for coaches and trainers is when you're talking to your client, and I know Justin and Adam did this also, you're talking to a client and you want to talk to them, but you don't want to talk to them. You tell them a story about another client that you trained. Create an example. Oh, you know, I had a, you know, I have a friend who trained another client. Exactly like them. And this happened, this is what the coach had to do to help them. And really what it is, it's a, it's like you're going through a different door. This door is closed. And so by us talking about coaches, we are talking to coaches, but really we're talking to clients. So this conversation that we had might have impacted some coaches very positively, but I guarantee you people on the other end who have no intentions to train or coach anybody who are struggling with weight, they hear the strategies that coaches have to take to help them. And what they're actually hearing is the personal responsibility and the parts of, and the roles that they put. Or they've been exposed to that. And they previously doubted it. And they're like, wow, maybe it's, you know, really understanding why the strategy was presented to them. Maybe not effectively. Cause I mean, let's be honest, most coaches don't always present it effectively, but it's like, okay, that strategy was presented to me probably in a shitty way. Maybe I should go back and explore that strategy or look for a source of that strategy that just communicates more effectively. I think that's what people should really be thinking about. But going back all the way to the beginning of the conversation, it's just the ability to delay gratification as a person, right? Of a person that is trying to create a journey that doesn't have a definable endpoint that is, you know, correlating success, not to a singular moment, but more so to a collection of moments. I think ultimately that's what clients have to be hearing. Adam, Adam actually says this pretty well. He talks about changing your goals and making small goals. So the goal would be lose 30 pounds. Say, okay, let's change that. Your goal is to make it to the gym twice this week. And now you get this sense of satisfaction that I did this thing. So the gratification, the satisfaction comes from these small behaviors that you were able to accomplish. By the way, there's actually studies on this. And they show that overall satisfaction is higher when you accomplish small tasks versus the one big task. So this is actually a very effective strategy for anybody. So like business, I want to bring in $10,000 this month. Or I need to make 50 phone calls today. Oh, I made 50 calls, right? It's a much more effective strategy in the long term. So someone listening right now who's looking for that and they call it motivation, it's not motivation, it's something else, but who's looking for that, start there, start the, you know, and make it whatever's realistic for you. It's got to be challenging but still realistic. What can I do? All right, so today I went to bed, or last night I went to bed at nine, like when, right? Versus I got to lose this weight or whatever. And you'll find yourself enjoying the journey because what you're doing is you're becoming aware of the steps you took in that journey. Instead of just looking at the summit, you now realize I went 10 feet. That philosophy of coaching actually came from me teaching trainers on how to make money. That's what that came from was, you know, trainers always focus on a dollar amount and oh, I gotta hit 5,000 this month, or I gotta hit $10,000 goal. And I said, well, how are you gonna do that? And they would just be like, oh, I gotta sell this many deals for this much. I'm like, well, yeah, but I mean, unpack all the behaviors that lead to that. And that's why anybody, I know we have some of the NCI people here today, have heard me ask almost every time I get on there is like, how many of you know your show percentage? How many of you know your clothes percentage? How many of you know what your average sale is when you do close somebody? And like nine times out of 10, when I go into these trainer rooms, like none of them know that. I'm like, so you're focusing on the wrong thing. You're focusing on I need to make $10,000 versus, I just gotta say hi to five people every single day. If I say hi to five people, I know that of those five people, two and a half of them show up to an appointment with me. I know two and a half people show up to an appointment with me that 25% of those people I closed at an average rate of $500. Now we can mathematically break down, oh wow, based off of that, you wanna make $10,000? Okay, well, you know how many people you just need to go talk to every single day. Just focus on that. Right, and just focus on that. It's the exact same philosophy that you apply to a client who wants to lose 50 pounds. Okay, let's not worry about the 50 pounds. Let's look at all these behavioral changes that lead to that. And let's start to build some wins and focus on that on the day to day. And that's the journey. I would add to that. And I would say all of those things and expand the time horizon. Because ultimately what you're gonna get, especially on the trainer side, is well, I had 50 conversations a day for a week and it didn't work. And it's like make it so unreasonable that that doesn't work and stop thinking about it in a week and start thinking about it in a month or two months or three months. Everybody wants to be so microtransactual. And or reframe those data points. This is how I teach someone to start. So you figure that out. Now after I have a month or two of this data, I go like, what am I really... So this is how I used to coach trainers. And I had these one-on-one meetings. Some trainers were like unbelievable at show. Like they talked to five people. Five people show up for free to see them. They were just killers at convincing people to come see them. But then they couldn't close a fucking door. Then I have other trainers that just could not convince anyone to see them free but they could close everybody. And then others like, and so as somebody who's trying to evaluate your business and improve on it, instead of like getting hung up on a date, like, oh, I need to make this much for this time. Oh, I talked to 50 people. Let's look at it and see where your strengths and weaknesses are. And if you're somebody who's great at getting people to show up, like as a leader and a coach to you, I'm not gonna be like trying to improve that. You're great there. But what's happening in the conversation when money comes up, that you have such a hard time making the clothes because you're really good at convincing. They're saying something right to get these people to show up and see you. But then when the money thing comes around, all of a sudden it gets really difficult for you. So instead of if you're a coach and trainer and you're listening to this, like instead of getting hung up on, oh, I gotta make X amount by a certain amount of time, like, right, you haven't even done the work yet to learn what you're good and you're not good at. How about first get those data points first, then you can go in and actually actively try and improve each one of those. Same philosophy. You know what's funny about this is that, this is why I love fitness so much. You can actually apply the principles if you understand the formula of what leads to long-term success. And you could take that and you could plug it into anything. So a lot of trainers and coaches teach their clients this when it comes to diet. They don't realize they're gonna place themselves with their business. You totally can. Just kind of hammer home and circle around kind of along the lines that we're talking about. If you took two people and one person, let's say you took the same person, you somehow created a parallel universe. And in this universe, they lost 30 pounds. It was hard. It was a struggle and they just kind of white knuckled it in whatever and yay, I got to my goal of 30 pounds. And then over here in this parallel universe, they lost 15 pounds, but they loved it. They enjoyed it and they were like, wow, I love how I feel about myself. And it was hard, but it was hard in a good way. Which version of them do you think that would be more satisfied, more happy and lead to more long-term success? One lost more weight, but that's not the most important thing. Most important thing was that they did it in a way to where they felt good about themselves. I mean, some of the biggest moments, life-changing moments I would have from clients wasn't the great weight loss or muscle building or body transformations. It was when they came to me and they said things like, I was at a party last night and there was all kinds of food there and I didn't eat any of it, but here's the crazy part. I don't want it. I mean, I craved it, I could have enjoyed it, but I didn't want it. And they're like, this was crazy. It's crazy you say that, right? So using the example of somebody that loses a lot of weight and then somebody that doesn't lose as much weight but finds fulfillment. I think it really depicts the two roles that every coach has. I think as a coach, we always think that our only real role is in our client-facing work. And at the end of the day, when somebody makes a commitment to work with us, obviously we have an obligation to create success, whatever that means for them. But I also believe that we have an obligation to be spreading information publicly, positively, for free. Because if we could zoom out before those people ever made the commitment to work with somebody and we could reframe what actual success is for them, which shouldn't be behind a pay barrier, and we as coaches, we're leading this as an industry, all of a sudden, everything, most journeys would end in a better place. But it's incumbent upon us to stop thinking that our only metric of success happens inside of the business of being a coach. Part of it is just that you're a walking, living, breathing example, right? And in a source of the right information to the world. And I think coaches forget about that. When they create content or they're putting shit out there to the universe, it's always with intent to quote unquote sell. How many people are like, I'm genuinely trying to change the world with the shit that I'm putting out. And the truth is very few. However, when you look at real life influence, and we look at Gary Vee, or we look at Alex Hormozzi, like I would argue both are very influential in the world today. Neither of them is putting out content daily with intent of conversion. They are putting out content in an effort to make the marketplace better. The people in their marketplace more aware, like have a better mindset, have better outlooks, and ultimately have more success. And then when you get behind the pay barrier, the journey actually becomes easier because you stepped into the journey of pursuing your results with the right mindset, with the right outlook, and with the right awareness of what success actually looks like. Well, I have a thought too with that. We were talking about like even on the client's end of having that kind of personal responsibility and accountability coming into the process. You know, what we're facing now today in today's culture and what we're up against in terms of like, you know, it's, we can deflect so easy now because of all the excuses and all the things that is everybody else's fault. And to be able to have that conversation initially, I mean, how difficult is that now for new coaches coming in, you know, battling all of the information, the blogs, the TV shows, the media in general of what they're telling people in terms of it being everybody else's fault and why you're Gary Vee's and you know, these people are sticking out so brightly right now is because they're bringing it back to that personal accountability piece. How difficult you think it is right now for coaches to communicate that? It's hard because there's an internal mindset too that, you know, you're taught, you kind of learn throughout life is that if you give something away, why would somebody buy it? And I think that if you study the highest levels example, the highest examples of influence, it's the people that are giving away the most shit but the right shit, right? And so when I look at Gary Vee and Alex, both of their information is hyper relevant all the time. And it's things that if you actually took, you would use and Alex's whole thesis is on this, right? I'm going to give away the tools to get somebody to a $3 million business so that then they can work with me and I know if they're at 3 million, I could scale them to 10 million and beyond and ultimately it creates wealth for everybody involved. And so as a coach and a brand new coach, you're of the mindset that if I tell you how to do something for free, why would you pay me? Except we all know and you guys have thousands of episodes that prove this, if somebody just listened to Mind Pump and they just took what you guys said, did nothing else, didn't even invest in MAPS, did nothing else, they would probably create insane amounts of success. And yet people continue to buy from you. And if you guys were like, hey, I'll coach you. That's why they buy from us. They would buy more from you. Well, that was also by the way. I mean, we didn't fall into that, right? We had a product to sell from the very beginning, Sal and Doug before they even met, Justin and I had already had MAPS Anabolic ready to go but we had the foresight to know that we first need to prove that we have enough free valuable information to give before we try and monetize anything. And that was the strategy was to keep going in that direction until we got to a place where people were literally trying to give us money. But you guys literally gave away all the gold. And that's what people miss. You could create your own MAP, you could literally write your own MAPS program if you just listened to our episodes. We talked about them all. People miss that though. It's so, we got 12 coaches sitting behind me right now. If all 12 of them went to the internet and they're like, here's exactly how you build your fat loss diet. Here's all the things you need to take into account. This is exactly what I give to my clients that pay me $1,000 and I want you to go do it. There's probably one person that sees it that might actually do it. But the fear in the coach is, oh my God, I just gave away all my secrets. That's not your goal to him. Right. And that's what we need people to understand. That's not your goal. That's not your goal. By the way too, if the four of the coaches in here and the ones that are listening, the stuff that you should lead with free is the best stuff. And that's marketing 101. You know, it's like you're, you lead with it. You give crap out for free. They're not going to want to buy your goods. Or if it's content designed to sell. Right. That's like, and that's what the marketplace is today. I mean, if you're listening to this and you're a coach or you're a client, just scroll Facebook and Instagram really quickly. Like just go to that app on your phone and you're going to get hit, guaranteed with five to 10 ads of content that produces an outcome. Yet, magically they won't tell you how to produce the outcome. Why? Like if you actually fucking knew, put it on the internet for free. You know, one of the things that I was like in the business space, early on I was like, Jason can make you $10,000 right away. The shit's on YouTube. Go to my YouTube channel right now. I've outlined the strategies in detail for all the steps, the scripts completely for free. You don't got to pay me shit to do it. Now you want me to help you implement it? You got to buy my time. But at the end of the day, I'm not holding back any of my resources. And I just think that if you're being marketed things that promise an outcome and you can't figure out what the mechanism is of action that facilitates the outcome, it's bullshit and you should run the other way. Agree. I wanted to go back to what Justin was talking about about the personal responsibility and placing, you know, making excuses or placing the onus on outside factors. You know what's funny about that is it's hard because we make it hard. It's often a lot easier than you think. So like with my kids, right? So my kid may come up to me and go, ah, this homework is so hard. And I could sit there and talk about why it's not hard. No, it's not hard. You got to listen to that. Or I could be like, yeah, it is. And then we're done. So someone comes up and they're like, man, society, you know, they make it like, I look at Facebook and Instagram and social media and all these perfect bodies and it makes me so insecure and food is like so cheap and it's so easy to overeat. And I could argue, but well, there's all these good options out there and good healthy food is actually cheaper and blah, blah, blah. Or I could be like, yeah, I know, you're right. And by the way, the minute you agree, now they're going to listen more. Well, you've just opened up an actual conversation, which is what it takes to facilitate change. You're just done. You know what I learned that from? I had an incredible mentor when I first managed gyms where I grand opened this club and it was super packed, prime time, super busy. He came in to help us do tours. It was a grand opening and I'm walking through and it's packed. I mean, it's like a nightclub. We get like walk sideways through different parts and people like, oh my God, it's so busy. And I'm over there telling people, oh, it's grand opening. It's prime time. It's actually slower at different times. And he heard me and he says, how come here? He goes, just say, yeah, it is busy. And I said, oh, shit. So I did. Next person. Oh my God, it's so packed. I know, right? And then we were done. There was no more conversation about it. They couldn't complain anymore. It wasn't even a complaint. It was, I think people just want to be... Heard. Validated, you know? Validation is why we do so many things in general. I mean, if you, we could distill everything that we've just talked about. All the behaviors, good or bad, in alignment or out of alignment with end goals. And 99% of the time, the ability to make the successful choice and the behavior that we believe is right is predicated on our inability or our ability to deflect validation. Yeah. Do you know how easy it is to get a person to hire you who says, just I'm so busy. I don't have any time. And you reply and be like, yeah, it is hard. It is, yeah, you are really busy. Versus, no, there's 24 hours of the day and you can make your own time and do the whole spiel or whatever. Nobody wants to hear that. No. Because you're reminding them of all the things that they actually know to be true and the things that are putting them into pain. Yeah, so when people, so when I talk on the show about stuff like this, it's different. Like, oh, people say it's genetics. Well, I'll dispel that. Or people say it's decided. Well, I'll dispel that. But if I have a person sitting in front of me and they say, well, my genetics, you know, it makes it really hard for me to lose weight. First of all, what am I doing by, am I gonna win this conversation? Sure, but am I gonna lose the goal? Yeah. So what if I say instead say, yeah, I can see we're talking about your genetics might be making it harder. You agree and then reframe. And we're just done. We're done with that. And there's some subtle NLP to that. They want you to go down and they actually want you to help them blame those things, right? So they've come to the conversation with the subtle assumption that they want to blame that. They now want to argue with you about that, ultimately, to prove their point that it's their genetics. And when you... When you validate it. You now drop the conversation and like you said, Adam, it shifts, right? And now allows a pivot point because that conversation is clearly done. Tony Robbins is the best of this, right? And if you guys have seen the Netflix documentary, it's pretty old. But there's the point where like the guy, like the kid that like wants to kill himself stands up. And Tony doesn't be, he never says like, don't kill yourself. He just says like, yeah, you want to kill yourself? Okay. Is it because of those goofy ass shoes, right? And so like he agrees with them, like in the moment, cool, you want to kill yourself. I'm not going to talk you out of it. I'm actually asking, is this the reason and the kid's expecting him to talk him out of it and the guy just like laughs. Yeah. And that laugh like broke the ice and they were there like in a completely new conversation. And that subtle frame shift probably saved the kid's life. You're touching on such an important point for coaches on when you get a client is... And it's hard for, especially if you're just fresh out of all your national search and you got all this knowledge you want to share is people come in, clients that in and how often does a client really graphs nutrition and exercise and that their first reaction to that is they want to correct them or teach them and instead of what you should do is like just agree. Just fucking agree with them. I want to lose 30 pounds as fast as possible. I bet you do. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. That's a great goal. Yeah, most people do, you know. And then you're done. I remember my name, first started doing it. Why only 30? Yeah, it's funny. You agree, you validate them and you don't say anything else and you look at them and you know what they always do? Whatever that was that felt like a block, they actually move it out of the way. This is... It's partially a test. They already have this preconceived notion on what it is to lose the weight or what people are going to say to them. And so they are saying it, expecting a response from you. And when you agree with them, you shake their world up and then drops down the barrier, now you have the opportunity to come in and then reframe that conversation. The first few times it happened, I thought this is weird and then it worked 100% of time. So someone says something to me and I say, yeah, that is tough. And I look at them and then they would come to me and then they would say right afterwards, okay, so what do we do? And I was like, what? By the way, it's communication. And that's when you just got the say. It's communication. That's right. It's communication 101 for your spouse too, by the way. I mean, you learn this art, you get good at this. If you could do this with your clients, you could do this whole. By the way, I want to add to that. It's not just like, if you go into this as a coach or trainer or as a husband or a wife and you're like, I'm going to manipulate this conversation. You're not going to be effective. You have to genuinely want the good result. So like you said, you've got to genuinely, just like your partner, okay, your spouse or your client, you genuinely want to move forward together. That's the goal is that. You don't validate so that you can then make your point. It's like you validate and you're sincere. I mean, I don't think you would ever ask a trainer that's entering a sales conversation, what do you want the outcome of this to be? Well, I want to spend 30 minutes proving to this person that I'm right. No, you want the outcome to be that I get a sale and that we work together. That way you can help them. Exactly. So if the goal is to work together, then the tactics can't be to prove that you're right. No. And exactly what you said earlier, in no matter what the relationship is, friendship, significant other, you know, spouse or, you know, coach and trainer. The other day, the whole outcome is you want to move forward together to achieve an outcome. And the only way you can help somebody is to get that commitment. Rule number one is when somebody tells you that something's hard or here's why I can't or here's why I haven't, believe them, believe them. Maybe not for you. If somebody tells me, man, it's really hard to make it to the gym three days a week. Like that's not true for me. See, I can do that. Oh dude. But if someone says that to me, believe them. It is hard for you to make it three days a week. Do you remember when, and maybe this never happened to you, but definitely happened to me when I wrote, when I wrote out my first ever dietary protocols. Hey, I violated every rule in the industry and I wasn't an RD and I wrote meal plans. So, save on me early in the day. So I would send these meal plans and people would be like, I can't eat that. And I'm like, why? It's just food. I'm like, there's no emotion. Just eat the fucking food, right? Former anorexic me like, dude, like why can't you eat the food? Yeah, why don't you develop an eating disorder like me then? But I, you know, I looked back on myself and, you know, I probably had a couple of clients that did it and just shredded, you know? And then I had the majority of clients that didn't do it and I'm like, God, they fucking suck. Yeah. And I look back and I'm like, man, I fucking suck. So bad I was, it was horrible. But, you know, it's, again, if I would have, knowing what I know now 20 years ago, if I would have been like, okay, it is hard. And I tried to put myself in the frame of it being hard. Man, I would have been such a better coach. Yeah. The hardest thing, this is true. These are both true. The hardest thing for a coach is number one, if a client doesn't achieve long-term success, it's your fault, not the client's fault. And number two, don't attach yourself to it. That's very hard to do. It's like, it's my fault, but I can't attach. You have to do those both. Why should you always believe it's your fault? Because if you do believe that, if you truly believe that, you will always look for a possible solution. You might not ever find it, but you'll always look for that solution. Whether or not the client didn't do it, I said, okay, there's something you didn't do that got that person to follow your advice or to move down this path. So it's always your fault. Don't attach yourself to it. That's leadership law number one. That's it. And then this- Everything is always your fault. That's in business, that's in life, that's in relationships. Don't be afraid to be proud of the success you help create too. Of course. And I think that it's very, a lot, I'm very guilty when coaches are like, oh, it's because of you. I'm like, it's not because of me. Like I just put words on paper and you do all the action. But at the end of the day, I really think it's important too that coaches and trainers celebrate their wins too. Because if you don't remind yourself that you are uniquely talented and you have a gift and you have a solution for what people need to be doing in this world, you won't be as excited or you won't go out and actually promote the way that you need to- I have an answer for that. Self-belief is important. Yeah, I have an answer for that. And it actually produces a tremendous amount of gratitude. And it sounds like it's the opposite of what you're saying, but it's actually not. I read a book years ago that talked about this in business. I think it applies for pretty much anything. And the analogy they used was windows and mirrors. When something goes wrong, look in the mirror. When things go right, look out the window. What did they mean by that? Well, when something goes wrong, look in the mirror. What did I do wrong? When things go right, as a leader, look out the window, look at your employees. What did they do? What did they do right? When your client succeeds, say to yourself, man, look what they did. Look at how they did that. Look at the accomplishment they made. When something goes wrong, look in the mirror. Say, okay, what could I have done differently? And maybe I don't know what that is, but there's something that I could do differently and you got to believe in that. And then not to add too much weight. And I don't think I will. I think coaches and trainers actually get off on hearing this because we are passion-driven. But in the world today, there's a lot of methods for personal growth. And I say personal, I don't say that lightly. I mean like real personal growth, the kind that makes you a better person. There's spiritual practices, there's therapy, there's, you know, you can go through tragedy, you can hire coach, life coaches and all that stuff. The most effective path for personal growth today is through health and fitness. Precisely because most people don't know that they're embarking on a personal growth journey. You can touch way more. When someone hires- Very sneaky. When someone hires a therapist, like man, my life sucks, I divorce, I need to get better. Like they are like, okay, I need personal growth. Someone enters into a spiritual path. They're like, I need personal growth. There's a lot of people that need personal growth that don't do those things and they're not ready to go on a path of personal growth. But most people want to look better, want to look sexier, want to feel better, want to, you know, look more buffed. So we could take those people and we can put them on this incredibly powerful vehicle that teaches acceptance, love for yourself, for others, discipline and then physiologically, find me something that doesn't improve almost every physiological and psychological metric as effectively as improving your health. So we actually hold the answer to a lot of things and it's precisely so effective because most people have no idea. They jump into it, not knowing that they're about to embark on this incredible journey of personal growth. Yeah, you know, going back to the whole desires and needs. If everybody just listens to that sound bite and they just take like what you just said and they listen to that every single day and they understood this is the vehicle that I'm driving right now. And you put that into a desire of wanting to deliver that. And you understand you need to get better at your craft. And I think that if every coach or every client that's like listening to this as a coach, you're like, I need to be a better leader. I need to get better skills of what I actually implement. I need to become better at getting my product and service out in the marketplace and effectively communicating it to sell it and to get people on board with it. Or as a client, I have a desire to experience change and all of these things. And so I need to commit myself more. I need to find the right leader and I need to actually engage in the process. Not be 100% compliant and all this bullshit of like, oh, I have to be perfect, but actually engage in the process and truly enjoy it. If there's desires aligned and they facilitate the right needs, all of a sudden we all reach the outcomes that we wanted in the first place, which is crazy. We allow our desires to dictate the real things that we should be doing. And it's like, holy shit, we arrived at the right outcomes. And I think that's where most people go wrong is they actually have that misplace. They say, well, I need to lose the 30 pounds, but I want to do these things. And like, you just have it backwards, man. And I'm gonna sell coaching and training. If you do this right and you find a good coach and I think if you work with Jason's people, you're much more likely, not just because we work with them, we work with them because of this. If you work with a good coach and you spend, I don't know, $5,000, there is not a single other place you could spend $5,000 and get as much in return. And I mean, profound, life-changing, not just looking better, that's great, but I mean, across the board, change your life in incredible ways. There is nowhere else you could spend that $5,000. And I just came up with a number, by the way. It could be a lot less or a lot more, but there's nowhere else you could spend that money and get that much in return. And there's nowhere else you could spend that money and get that return in financial and life satisfaction and relationships and health and longevity, mobility, like you name it. It's the one that impacts all those. That's it. The returns are so ridiculously outsized and the reality is they're not quantifiable, which is the crazy part. And because they're not quantifiable, people are going to not believe it. And this is why, if we do a good job, this is easy to sell. This is easier to sell if you understand this and know how to communicate it. It's easier to sell $5,000 worth of personal training than it would be to sell a house here in San Jose for $5,000. If you truly understand it and houses by the way in San Jose go for 1.5 or more, okay? That would be stupid. I could go sell that to anybody, right? If I can communicate what I know effectively to someone, it would be the easiest sell of all time. Here's the part that I love. Everyone that's listening to this podcast right now that spent the whole time listening to it, they're likely nodding their head in agreement, right? It's making all the sense in the world. They have this passion for health and fitness and they're like, wow, I get it, 100% right. Now I would love to see this podcast inserted into like a completely different audience. One that is not driven by health and fitness and can we have that same impact? And if we can get them to arrive at the same conclusion and they can listen to just the last five minutes that we just talked about and they come to that same place of nodding their head in agreement and they're like, wow, that's right. Man, we truly are changing the world. We are. And it's like that, that's the game. That's the game. How do we take that conversation and how do we insert it into all the other populations? And I think on our mission, and this is where all of our missions are so aligned is we're trying to take this information in slightly different vehicles and we're trying to get it in front of the right people that are willing to lead the mission. Totally. And that's what's exciting. I think that it's not just more science or biology or physiology. It's the collection of what we just discussed from every facet of life and its ability to become the vehicle of true life change, of life change. Not a physical change, not a physiological change but of things that truly like when we're all laying there on our death bed, we're like, man, life was better. We do it through changing one life at a time. That's the secret sauce to this. Well, think about how many lives that life changed. That's right. And the ripple effect. That's the person who's actually gonna go get the five other people who may have never listened to this podcast, right? Because we impacted that person so significantly, they had to go out and share it with every family, friend, and that's how you do that. Not finding clever ways to try and market and get them and persuade them, right? It's like, can I impact what's in front of me so powerfully that they can't help but share that message and talk about it? And then, and by the way, that's also such an easier business model when it's slower, takes longer to do that, but it's such a powerful business model that if you lead from there. It grows exponentially. Yeah, it's a compound. The speed of growth is usually correlated to the sustainability of growth, right? And so I'm totally cool with slower growth. You know, before we started, we were talking about Bradley, you know, I went on his podcast and we were talking about him and, you know, I was really worried because he's not a health and fitness guy, right? He's going through his own health and fitness journey and dude's like a killer about it. And I was like, man, are people even gonna give a fuck about like what I have to say? And man, I got so many DMs. Of course you do. And they were like, dude, and like we didn't go deep into health and fitness, but it was more like the application of health and fitness to life and change and all those things. And I got so many messages of people being like, yo, like your story, it just resonates. And like it's the life change. Those are my favorite. We didn't talk about physiology or any of that bullshit. Like we just talked about the vehicle of health and nutrition and ultimately how it created, you know, large levels of success in my life. Those are my favorite podcasts to go on. It was the best. Those are my favorites. So the ones that are not fitness and health. And we get the biggest response from the, I love it because like I just talked about personal growth. Imagine walking up to a group of people and talking about like spiritual practice and try my religion or you go up to, hey, you guys, I just knew exercise is so awesome for everybody wants to listen. It's like this wonderful way to sneaky way to talk to people. You were talking about reaching more people. Here's again, another open secret. When we started the show, we purposefully added an entertainment component because we knew that we would get some people who listened to it for the fun part. And then, oh, by the way, here's some fitness stuff. So for coaches and trainers listening right now, if your clients like you, you're gonna be much more successful. If people want to be around you, you're gonna be much more successful. So that's another effective strategy. It's not always about fitness. It's also about how do I get these people want to be around me so that they can listen to some of the stuff I have to say. When I ran a facility in Beverly Hills, there was a trainer. He would come on the floor every day and all eyes were on him. Like he did, I don't want to call him off the wall exercises because they were effective but they were unique, right? He was ahead of his time and he was loud, counted his reps louder and he encouraged people more than any other trainer. And you could tell every client that was there was just a personal training facility. It wasn't a gym. And every client was like looking like, I want to be with that trainer, right? Like they were jealous. So like I don't have that level of support or attention. And sometimes you got to put on a show, right? Sometimes you got to show up and you got to give people what they want, man. If you allow it to be based on just the exercise selection and the sets and reps, like it's deeper. And I mean, if we haven't illustrated that in this conversation, then man, we like send me a DM and like we'll have a private conversation or something because we got to check your pulse. And I mean, it's so much deeper, it's just different. Along those lines. So obviously you have what we believe to be one of the best certification courses. And you also teach coaches and trainers how to build a business. And if you listen to this, you know that the methods are effective in the right ones. You're doing a giveaway. I have a link up here. It says Vegas in it. What is that? So ironically, you know, this morning before we recorded, I did a, I taught we have a program called night school. It's in our membership site and I teach every other week. And I was talking about the importance of product quality. And I said to people, I said, listen, I'm not selling you in any way right now, but I just want to let you know there's an opportunity to come with me in May to Las Vegas. And you know, 12 people will come and you know, six people will spend one day with me. Six people spend another day. And then on the day in between, we'll get a cabana at a pool and we'll go to dinner and we'll do a Vegas show. And I promise you, it'll be an amazing experience. But what you'll walk away from those 48 hours, right? Whichever two days you spend, you'll walk away from 48 hours knowing that I didn't give a fuck about your money, that I gave a fuck about you and your business and the success that you have beyond here. And if any of you happen to be there, you can challenge me on it if I don't and I'll refund your money right away. And that it is, it is the quality of the product. And everything I'm doing now, you know, we're at a multi-eight figure level in our business. And all of our focus right now is on the quality of the product. And so I was trying to illustrate that and ironically somebody bought like right away. Okay. And so I was like, man, you know, it'd be dope for the audience of Mind Pump, I want to prove that to someone else. And so here's the opportunity is you can call them and it's an amazing experience, I promise you. Actually, the people behind us, they're part of a San Jose experience right now. And you'll come out and you'll come to a one day experience. And what that is is, you know, if you have a business, if you don't have a business, wherever you're at, we're going to break down where you're at, we're going to clearly decide what's holding you back, what you should be doing moving forward and basically give you a 90-day blueprint of exactly how to move forward and create success. And then the next day is just a day to hang out, man. Ask questions, network, be around other high performers, people in the industry that likely you can add value to and that can add value to you. In the Vegas setting, obviously it's a cabana at a pool. It's always dinner at Maastros. Shout out to Brandon at Maastros in Vegas, always takes good care of me. And it's a Vegas show. So what they'll do is they'll go to ncimindpump.com slash Vegas. You'll enter, entry is completely for free. We'll be drawing one person. You'll get to come out, you just got to get to Vegas and you got to have a place to stay, but the rest of it is completely awesome. And one comment I want to make on that is, I feel sorry for the group over here that went to San Jose and not Vegas. We're not nearly as fun or as awesome as Vegas. Cabana's a... That'll be awesome. Jason's always fun having you on the show. Dude, I appreciate it, man. This conversation, we actually wrote an episode that we were going to go talk about, but usually what happens when we all get in front of each other is we just go off on something. I feel like passion is passion. And it started and we, I think all of us are very passionate about this side. And I think it's the real reason that our lives were changed through this industry, right? Through the vehicle that is the industry of fitness and nutrition and you can't fake passion. You guys always said from day one, stay authentic. And this is authentic to who we are as a group. And honestly, it's authentic to our relationship. And I'm super grateful for it, man. I always know it. I think that you guys know this podcast just the end. You're like, man, that was good. This was good. And like, if you guys, as always, man, because anything hit me up, but I could never be more appreciative. You guys have, I've said this, I want to openly acknowledge it on this podcast. And like, you know, Adam, like our first conversation in November of 2019, it kind of saved my life. And I haven't told you guys like a lot about it, but our, I was at a really transitional point. I was burned out like hardcore. And I had to make a really difficult decision. And I had to let go of something that was very profitable to pursue like my real passion and you allowing me to come on this platform to advertise initially, but really just the support and the friendship that you guys have given me through the years. It's meant a lot. And it really was the foundation of growth that, you know, we grew 600% year on year for three years and it started with this platform. So I just want to publicly acknowledge you guys, I haven't done it enough. That's a testament to your character though, bro. Absolutely, that's a testament to your character. All right, man. Thank you for coming on, bro. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Yeah. Today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the... Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.