 Well, hello everyone! Good afternoon, good evening, or good morning, depending on where you're joining us from today. Welcome to Engineering for Change or E4C for Short. Today we're pleased to bring you this month's installment of the 2021 E4C seminar series. The series used to intellectually develop the field of Engineering for Global Development. We host a new research institution monthly to learn about their work in advancing the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. Today's seminar will be presented by Dr. Andrea Mikangeli, who is representing University of Rome, Sapienza, and the State University of New York. We'll be hearing more about Dr. Andrea shortly. Welcome. In addition to that, we are joined by the founder of the seminar series, Dr. Justi Austin-Bremman, and myself. I am the co-moderator today for the seminar. I am the president of Engineering for Change, and I'm very excited to have you all join me here today. The seminar you're participating in today will be archived on E4C's site and on our YouTube page. Both of those URLs are listed on the slide in front of you right now. Information on upcoming seminars is available on the E4C site, and E4C members will receive invitations to upcoming seminars directly. If you have any questions, comments, and recommendations for future topics or speakers, we invite you to please contact the Engineering for Change team at researchandengineeringforchange.org. We also invited to share your feedback at the end of the seminar to inform our strategy overall. The link is shown on the slide, and also should be posted in the I think at the end of the event, so you'll be able to get that directly. If you're following us on Twitter today, please join the conversation with our dedicated hashtag, hashtag E4C seminar series. So as I noted, this series was founded by Dr. Justi Austin-Bremman, who is a member of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers Engineering Global Development Group, where we are housed, and co-chairs our EGD research committee. Dr. Justi Austin-Bremman is an Assistant Professor of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Michigan. He earned his PhD in mechanical engineering from MIT and holds an SM in mechanical engineering and a BS in ocean engineering, both from MIT. Before his academic career, he worked as a development engineer in Peru, working with rural communities on alternative business opportunities and with local doctors groups on medical device development. He also spent two years as a high school math teacher in Boston, so a very diverse experience that he's brought and his perspective to our work, and we are so honored that he leads our efforts. So before we move on to our presenters, I'd like to tell you a bit about engineering for change. For those of you who are new to us, E4C is a knowledge organization, digital platform, and global community of more than one million engineers, designers, development practitioners, and social scientists who are leveraging technology to solve quality of life challenges faced by underserved communities around the globe. Some of those challenges may include access to clean modern sanitation, sustainable energy solutions, improved agriculture, and more. We invite you to become a member. E4C membership is free and provides access to news and talent leaders, a prior database of over 1,000 essential technologies, professional development resources, and current opportunities such as jobs, funding calls, fellowships, and more ways to contribute your expertise and insight. E4C members also receive exclusive invitations to online and regional events and access to resources aligned specifically for their needs. We invite you to visit our website, the URL is listed here, most of you know it since you got here, to learn more and to sign up. E4C's research work cuts across geographies and sectors to deliver an ecosystem view of technology for good. Original research is conducted by Engineering for Change research fellows annually on behalf of our partners and sponsors and delivered as actionable reports with implementable insight. We invite you to visit our research page, the URL is listed on the slide, in order to get more information on our field insights, research collaborations, and review the state of engineering for global development, which is a compilation of academic programs and institutions offering training in this sector. We are proud to feature our annual compilation of research in these two reports that are both available on that page. If you have research questions or want to work with us on a research project as a research fellow, please contact us at researchandengineeringforchange.org. With that in mind, I'm excited to announce that our applications are now open for our research fellowship and they are open until the end of this month. So if you're interested in becoming a fellow, I really encourage you to take action now to learn more about our unique workforce development program in this sector. I encourage you to take more information on the URL listed on the slide and fill out the form that is going to be shared in the chat is also available on this URL and is also available on that page. So please do look into that. It's an incredible experience and obviously limited time only, so get on that. If you have any questions related to the fellowship specifically, please direct them to fellows at engineeringforchange.org. Additionally, another hot and burning opportunity for any of you who are social entrepreneurs or seeking to be social entrepreneurs who are joining us today. I wanted to introduce the ASME Innovation Showcase or ISO. The ISO is a hardware-led social innovation accelerator that happens annually in India, United States, and Kenya with regional events where we select nine finalists to join us to connect with our network of experts in those regions, gain access to due diligence and capacity building with our unique network of experts. Three winners will walk away with a 10,000 USC grant as well as access to design expertise, promotional materials, and the opportunity to join the rest of the ISO winners from the other regions at our annual boot camp where they will have access to a comprehensive curated design and engineering view aligned to their sector as well as potential to gain up to $50,000 in additional seed investment, access to sector expertise with industry, and an opportunity to join us at our annual event impact engineer for networking with additional entrepreneurs, our entire community, and impact investors. Applications are open as well for this now until March 9th, so I encourage you all to apply ASAP if this is of interest. So lots of opportunities. We're so excited. It's a unique time. So typically we used to take this time to practice our skills on our digital platform, but I'm sure that all of you at this point in the pandemic are Zoom spurts of some sort. So we're just going to use this time to frankly get to know who you are. So at this moment I invite you to please type your location into the chat, the Zoom chat list, know where in the world you're joining us from today. So hello, Sweden. I'm here in Brooklyn, New York. So if you don't see the chat window, just click on the icon with it to little chat bubbles. Welcome, everyone. Welcome from Missouri and Chicago, from Rome and Sheffield, UK, Idaho and Michigan, Nebraska, and Ecuador, Dallas, Texas, and Nigeria, Florida, and I love Chicago today. Welcome. Nairobi and Puerto Rico, Scarborough, UK, and Big Rapids. Amazing. We're so thrilled to have you all here. Hello, Sao Paulo. Hello, Nairobi. Now if you don't see the chat open again, just remember that you just have to click on the icons. So hello, Ghana. So please do use the chat window to type in any remarks for the rest of the attendees. And if you have any technical questions, feel free to send a private chat to the Engineering for Change admin. If you're listening to the UBrio broadcast and you're having challenges, don't forget that you might want to open up Zoom through a different browser or through a different device. During the seminar, please use the Q&A functionality to type your questions to the presenter. Again, if you don't see it, click the Q&A icon on the bottom of the screen and the other sides. It's important because we do aggregate those questions in the Q&A, and anything that's not addressed or can be addressed by our speakers following the event. So please do type those questions in. All right. Welcome again, everyone from Texas, from Central America, from El Salvador. We're so thrilled. With that, I am really proud to introduce today's speaker, Dr. Andrea Mukangelli, who is the Assistant Professor at the Mechanical Engineering Department at the University of Romsa-Pienza since 2009 and a lecturer since 2001, who also serves in Adjuncts Associate Professor at the State University of New York and has a tremendous amount of experience, 30 years of experience in renewable energy in which he has realized more than 80 private public programs and involved more than 800 students in rural neighborhoods in Asia, Africa, Latin America and Europe. I'm now going to go through this entire biography. I can assure you it is incredibly, incredibly impressive. And I'm just going to leave it to let you know that he is also currently the European Director of the Grand Town Discollege Program, which is led by the National Academy of Engineering in the United States. We're so incredibly excited to have Dr. Andrea here with his busy schedule. So I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you, Dr. Mukangelli, to speak to us about your work. Thank you. Thank you, Yana. Thank you very, very much. Here I am. Hi, Jess. Hi, everyone in touch with us. I can see how many different countries are with us. I'm so glad to be here with you. Here I am. All right. If you can share your screen, you want to take us through your slides? Sure. Lovely. I do see that some other colleagues have joined us and it looks like there's eight of Andrea on the screen. I don't know Yana. I don't know how. Don't worry. The more the merrier. Lovely. We see your screen. Okay. Good. So may I start? Please. Thank you. Thank you very much. So one moment. Okay. So let's start with something. One moment. I want to be sure. Okay. So our work together is just to understand that energy access is something new and important, is something that we have to face simply faster than light. We will see why faster than light. It's easy. I want to tell it at the beginning. When in an area, in a village, somewhere, we have no electricity, but we have a little bit of light. At that moment, we think that they have energy. They have electricity and this is no. That's why we have to move faster than this first lighting. We need to make mini grids or other services ready for real development, not just to enlighten poverty, not just to enlighten the bad condition, but to make the change. This is engineering for change when you really give new opportunities, not just light. That's why I like to say we have to go simply faster than light because when light arrives before us or before, of course, this large group of people fully devoted to energy access, well, when light arrives, maybe this village will be taken out of the new opportunities and the real opportunities. Let's start. I will be ready to listen to your questions. I will be ready to answer. I will follow Jesse, let's say suggestions and questions or Iana, of course, because they will manage the conference. Now, let's go straight to the main topic. The main topic is energy communities, is how to go straight for the energy access following the UN Sustainable Development Goal number seven, but supporting all the other sustainable development goals that cannot be reached without energy, so that if we can say that we are addressing a specific sector, actually we are addressing the all issues of development. That's why we have a responsibility and that's why we started to make a large group of research, not because we have something incredibly new, but because only our projects studied, analysed and brought at the scientific community can really be shared and utilised by UN, by NGOs, by the governments and to make it really true and on the ground. That's why we started this field study for mini-grid optimisation research group. We will see it, but I want to say now from the first slide that everything I'm saying starts from field studies, from real data, and everything in our target is to optimise and so to give new evidences, scientific evidences to innovation and new possible step forward. Of course, technology is just a part. We have a financial constraint. We have the community that has to be engaged, so we cannot think just to send material, containers and hope that everything will go in the best way. We are sure that without community engagement we will not have development. On the other side, we know that we have to respect the local regulatory framework that sometimes is clear, sometimes is a little bit unclear or not easy. Sometimes it makes the work easier, sometimes it makes some barriers for the real deployment of mini-grids and energy access. That's why we have at least to know it and to be aware. Are we speaking about technology for poor villages? No, we are speaking about the technology that is really cross-aged at the first level. That's why a few years ago I was in Hawaii visiting this wonderful ranch with this Vanadium storage and it was studied. They were thinking about how to use a photovoltaic system and storage in missions for Mars, but there was a problem. Next Mars mission, we don't know when it will be, so they told me, excuse me, maybe we can use something on our mother's heart. I said, yes, yes, I think so. This research on mini-grids and off-grids is okay. We need it for space mission. We need it nowadays in a number of our towns and industrial countries, but we need them also for energy access. We have a number of different opportunities. This solution, it comes from our dear friends of West England in Bristol, how to use urine to make renewable energies, starting by the microbial fuel cells, starting by a technology that is now going to be improved and utilized more and more. So we want to know that we have a wide range of technologies, from technology utilized in the space to technology that starts from toilet. No problem. Our target is clear. We want to make energy and electricity in the cheapest way and as diffused as possible. This is the easy scheme for how to use waste stream through microbial fuel cells to make power and to use them, to use this power within the village or the remote area itself without many steps inside. Well, this is why we need the programs, international programs, to put together all these ideas. That's why I'm so glad and proud of this invitation at the Engineering for Change, because I do think that only the network can give real answers. And the network of this field study for mini grid optimization, it is within the Grand Challenges for Engineering program of the National Academy of Engineering that stated 14 challenges. But the first, the number one is make solar energy economical. Of course, there is also a step dedicated to medicines, to nuclear, to water and so on. But we are asking our students to apply their research with five competencies, not just the first, Engineering, Research and Creativity. This is of course important, of course, the base. But the multidisciplinary, the business entrepreneurship competence is fundamental. We will see now the business models of the mini grid, how they change, how they are truly different from the basic and just I'm selling a kilowatt hour. No, it isn't. I will show you why. And the other is the social consciousness and the global and multicultural dimension. Only in this way, we can really change the situation. And really, the SDG number seven will support all the others SDG. That's why the field study for mini grid optimization is made by a number of different scholars from different universities, from Italy, from UK, from US, and from Africa, as well as from Latin America, especially in this case, Central America. I could see someone from Salvador and someone from other countries. And really, my heart is also there. And I hope to go back to Latin America and Central America as soon as possible. All of us are restricted in this moment. But this is not a reason not to cooperate. This is one reason more to work together. That's why we decided to scale up mini grid starting from two important points. The first is capacity building. How to make people ready to work on their own energy, on their own electricity, and how to improve technology, how to give proved technical innovation. How and when. First of all, improving field data collection. Second, allowing fast replicability. These are the other two points that we want to share with this great group of people. Let's speak about business models. Well, many people and operator players of the market still think that we can put a photovoltaic plant somewhere and just wait for the people paying for their own electrical bill. This is not. We have not to think that when an energy plant is installed, our work is done. Our work is done when we can ensure and let's say push up the productive use of this energy. So when the electricity is healthy, is product, is cold, is heat, is TV communication, agriculture, innovation, information. This is what we need. When the energy is food, when the energy is water, we are selling something that is really changing the life and we are making new jobs, new work, new opportunities for the people of that place. So there are a number of good models, but now a day, we cannot think that an energy player alone can make the difference, can make the change. The energy player with the agribusiness sector, together with the cold storage, with the food processing, with the irrigation, together with the public services, together with the association, religious association, let's say public municipality, these activities, the commercial activities, the agri-food activities, the artisan activities, together with the energy production are one community, are one complete organization and in this case we are really giving the revenues to the energy player, the revenue to the people who invested in that place and in this case we can ensure and we will really make our duty. So this is the first point. Energy alone or energy system alone is not enough. From the first slide I said the light is not enough. Now I have to say electricity is not enough. Organization and multi-unit and the aggregation of a number of different uses of the energy this can make development. We started in a number of countries, we started working with the real plants but we also started with capacity building and in this I have to say that the microgrid academy of rest for Africa is really changing the game because we really are starting with people, not only the theoretical side but also the practical side together in training that have a short duration of a week but where people can really be empowered and until now we are at a 15 training edition but we engaged more than 500 students and we really explored the talents of these people. That's why we not only stayed in our classrooms and this was important in this moment because under the COVID-19 crisis we could start a project renewable against COVID, how to use renewable energies for African health centers and it should be not possible without our colleagues on field, our colleagues in their own countries as well as my students are working in my country as well as our colleagues from the US, our colleagues from Latin America are working in their own countries but together in a community that is studying the real data and giving real solutions. That's why today in the morning, it's morning for you now but it was morning also for us six hours ago. We gave the three special hours to our best talented students that proposed their own startup and this is something that I would like also to share with the engineering for change because I know that they also like, you like to work with people and with the younger people. Well, these friends Elin, Nora or Rico and Joy was moderating their presentation. They really presented important activities to share and to go on on real problems like here Kevin you can see was working with us on health centers and giving answers to frequent power outages, limited operation, unreliable electricity, high cost of electricity and they were working with us with our students at engineering faculties in Europe, in the US together and we could find solutions and also funding to realize the plans but without the engagement of the communities, without these talented people that have been participating with us in the training. It should be impossible to work, it should be impossible. This is a white network of industries, universities, UN agencies and as well as of course association of national and international groups but we need people that skillet people that can work in Italy, in Europe, in Africa, in Latin America, in the US for their own towns and their own mini grids. Yes, because mini grid is important today in every country because our dear utilities are telling us please make renewable energies but use it by yourself, use it near home, use it near your own energy plant system. That's why the mini grid that here is introduced with few elements, it's not always off grid and usually it is interconnected, it can exchange electricity with the main grid but we have to reduce this exchange as possible and so we usually feed to generators, of course possibly renewable energy generators and storage also in our town, also in industrial districts because the point is self consumption, the point is if I sell my energy or if I buy energy from the grid the value is less than if I use my energy, the energy realized and produced in my district, in my area and we are so proud because in 2019 in Washington at the National Academy of Engineering we presented a project related to how to help health centers by renewable energies and mini grids. It was November 2019, nobody of us was thinking about a pandemic, nobody of us but a few months ago even a few months ago but a few months later than November this scheme was necessary and we could apply it and we had the opportunity to realize the plans because with our students from Europe and US we had been meeting students in Africa and together we had been sharing a training and it was January and when it was March when it was May we could work together even under lockdown in all the countries and we could really help the NGOs working with these communities with these health centers because of the training already realized that's why at the end the capacity building and technical assistance gave a real supply asset well usually we use standardized let's say softwares but we are also making new softwares together with MIT for example REM that give an idea on how to optimize the mini grid when we speak about mini grid as you can see here we are complicated we are speaking about a mix of energy system a mix of users and residential as well as public as well as commercial users okay but we have to understand the best sides of the grid the batteries when and how to save energy from the sun here you can see the sun giving energy but part of this energy the yellow is utilized in the blue one to recharge the storage and then there is a part of the storage that will be not enough and so we will need the diesel sometimes here the green areas or we can also receive some part of the energy not delivered even if someone could buy it so there are a number of strategies that we can implement and a number of strategies that will change with the months and the seasons now I want to be clear we need the field study we need the data from the field to make our best a solution and also algorithm and also our so our research is of course funded by international organizations or local organization or our the rest for Africa that is with nl nl green power like the hour this morning but the important is to bring back data to share trainings and works now there are a number of other algorithms important I want just to share some case study not to leave the our dear participants with the doubts that everything can be made with the same scheme the scheme change and we have to be ready to understand if there is the main grid like in this case or when it's important to use only the photovoltaic or when we have to switch on the generator so here you can say you can see a simple scheme we have electricity from gay the grid we have also direct use of this electricity we don't need in this case batteries but will be smart sometimes also to recharge the batteries even with the main grid why not when we have sun it will be the best option to use directly the energy from the photovoltaic system when we have no energy from the grid no sun we don't want to use the generator if we have the batteries and the storage we will use the storage if we have no storage no grid no photovoltaic of course the generator the gen set will make it's work but it has to be as little as possible as rare as possible because this is the most expensive way to have electricity so I don't want to annoy and to make more and more and more case studies but just to give an idea of the complexity of how to take the best solution from the market but also from the scheme and the strategies that we have to implement putting inside the mobility putting inside the different uses and putting inside a number of cycles of the batteries that will affect the life of the batteries that's why we are going studying in a deep way the monitoring of these plans that's why we need to study the single phase to optimize once twice three times and then to make the algorithm and then to make the rule for the energy management system like you can see here well a Bloomberg study enlightened that the phases are important from the beginning from the GIS data available from the distance by the grid by the national network the population their their activities but we can say that after it it's really important the real-time monitoring of our plan to compare the solution with the real use of electricity in this case this community is making their own chlorine alone just starting from south with an on-site electro chlorination this is another use another productive use how to make clean water direct on-site well key considerations are that grid is expensive but this is not a problem the mini grids can be in touch and connected to the main green when it will arrive the only important is the standardization or at least to have clear rules to make it the smart meters are important but not always the only solution especially when the project is too small for another expense and do not open demand ramp up look at the real activities the activities that are on the village that are made with a great effort by the people and then look at that need and first of all let's comply with this energy consumption and then you can make the enlargement of your grid so social economic development is the base the engagement of local community clear regulation and technical and safety standard let's remember this is the first the technical and the safety standards good all of these things will be put together on the 22nd of march we already have something like 50 different universities that wants to stay with us i hope many people can write to me if you want to share with us experience on mini grids experience on the new energy services like mobility zero emission mobility that is also important and also important in the villages because electrical mobility it's not only a big tesla it's only a three cycle for the milk distribution or to bring a vaccine with the for inoculation in the in the villages okay so we are speaking about really a white sector it we would like to share data to share methodologies to share schemes and so in this way to put our works at the service of the scientific international community that's all i'm so glad and i will be happy to share with all of you any kind of new studies any kind of opportunities to make a better work together thank you well thank you very much uh dr andrea um you know this is uh really inspiring to see not only the the level of the work uh that that you have done in terms of you know pushing pushing forward the technologies and really thinking deeply about the algorithms and implementation of the optimization you know i could ask you questions for hours about that you know myself being an optimization researcher i'm really interested getting into some of those details uh but um i think that the other piece of developing the network building the capacity really doing sort of thinking about the entire system and how to best you know get the outcomes that you want in terms of implementing the technologies not just the technical performance or optimization um i think was was really inspiring and really uh just want to say you know uh novel and very interesting so um i want to ask some of the questions that people people had a lot of questions for you uh in the q&a so i'm going to try and ask some of those and as we've said uh previously if we don't get to your question we apologize we don't always have time to get to all the questions um but we will be providing them in written form to dr michan galley and he he will be uh responding with that later so if you know we don't get to your question we will eventually uh get a response so i think one of the things that i thought most interesting in the q&a that came up was you talked about really understanding sort of the socioeconomic context of wherever you know you're doing it at a health center you're doing it in a particular situation and optimizing it excuse me sorry this is what happens in the pandemic well you can go look for them thank you all right sorry i need to optimize there's no door on this room so that's that's we're gonna need to iterate on that um how do you adapt your model two different contexts right so you have like a particular model you're trying to implement um how do you adapt it when you change location or socioeconomic context what are some of the ways that you might change how you're doing it when you come to a new context yes this is a great question that is making me work in the last has been working i have been working 30 years about it because of course we have something in our mind but most of the time this scheme this system will not match with the real needs of the new place where we are arriving well most of the time i prefer to work with people that is already organizing itself and is they are already asking for what they want of course this is something that will help the group of engineers but the group of engineers will be helped first of all with international and especially local engineers and technicians that's why when we move also in Italy also within our region when we go to an island for example we are working now in ventotene island very nice island i invite all of you coming there but um we first of all we work with the local engineer the person who had been living 30 50 80 years there and we wanted to start from the real suggestion of the people inside and the other point is that of course is impossible in a large project to go in every place or to receive data directly from each village each town each place that wants or can be can have benefits from a mini grid so we are developing these algorithms these simple software that starts from a number of solutions sometimes they start randomizing the solutions but taking out the best solution the importance is of course the input to have the real input to give real solution so that the input cannot be just the sunlight the wind and the biomass available the the data will be also social and economical and production data so the real productive use of the energy that had to be supplied that's why i think that the research work is really important and i know that your library will help us because you have a wide library of solutions and i really want to put all of them and to make a little scheme for and to put them in our matlab solutions and understand which is at the end the best design for the mini grid yeah that's great i think that that really you know just speaks to the difficulty in a formulating optimization problems right we know that that you know your your optimal answer completely depends on your formulation and the inputs the data you're putting in into it so i think that that's really important to to bring up because i think you know a lot of the way that the technology is presented in development can often seem as if oh we just need to get this performance level but even defining what performance means you talked about productive use and how different that can be between different contexts and that you really need to understand that in order to decide what is the optimal mini mini grid for that situation um i we had a couple questions about this so and i myself was wondering um you talked about productive use could you go into also just maybe elaborate on some of the other objectives things that are going into your objective functions for these optimization uh you know algorithms you're setting up um you know talk about because i think it's important for other people's we go in maybe we're not doing mini grid but you know if we understood some of how you write your objective functions you know that could be also translatable or generalizable to perhaps other problems where we say okay we need to think about these things you know is it the productive use of energy might be the productive use of other other things we're trying to provide um whether it's health or other sectors yes first of all we have not to think about the mini grid as energy and electricity production maybe we need the cold we need the heat we need a number of the famous nexus energy water food so as much as we can put in our a scheme these other needs as much we can put inside the opportunities to develop one or the other of the productive use as much we can really foresee the energy consumption and we can optimize the energy systems but look the energy system is at the end not at the beginning of the process so the energy system is will give electricity to something that is really existing or at least is growing but we have to understand it and that's why I think that we do not think about just solar panels we have to think all the energy opportunities to produce but also to use electricity and this make a real mini grid otherwise we are just speaking about production and electricity production and this is this is okay but this is not always working at the best well that that's really important well I'm gonna see okay that's really important and I and I think that um it's a very well taken point I want to I want to ask one follow-up question I think we're gonna turn it over to to Yana to to wrap up um and I first of all I just want to personally thank you because this is right up what I've you know I'm a design process researcher I do design optimization this is so great everything that you're saying is uh really meaningful because I think people approach optimization from just to see their mathematical or production okay we got to produce the most electricity and you're talking about how do we actually produce sort of value right like what are people actually using what do they need um I want to ask about when you're looking at this real energy consumption this real needs that people have how do you guys account for or think about the use of these things maybe changing because you're putting in a new system right so I think one of the things that's difficult to model for me when I'm thinking about projects we're working on is any change in human behavior right so any change in behavior so I might say okay you were using this much energy before um but now we have maybe it's more constant maybe it's more reliable you know I found you had some need that we're trying to meet and then if I'm providing that that changes your behavior in some way that may change how much energy you actually how much what you need right like how much you consume um and so I was wondering how you guys approach that problem of either you need people to change behavior whether it's maintenance behavior or something else or in order to get the performance that you want or how do you just even think about people's because you've changed the system people react to that and change their behavior how do you how do you think about that process of the human the humans that exist within the systems that you're trying to model and work on thank you Jesse this is really a fundamental question I will take just one minute because time is running over you know Jesse at MIT last year they won the Nobel prize doflot and banergy on the economic side just because they were in the villages they randomizing case studies on people on the life of people and understanding their own uh you production their own jobs and their own uh really way of life and needs okay this is also our job we have to make it on the electricity on the energy side because we can just get their data maybe but we have to do this kind of work to put together a good number a high number of case studies and to find always the adaptation the best adaptation of our scheme okay so this is I think the the answer just start from this field the field study that's why a number of our dear friends here are not only grand challenges students but field study alumni because they started I can see Massimo with us that and then a number of the other just looking on real data to make the best solution and to reply it and to share it with the scientific community this is our work thank you well that is a great note to end on because I think that's perfect what a what a great and inspiring response I just want to thank you personally again this makes me want to go back out and and and do what you're saying and and try and try and live up to that challenge that you've posed for our community and I want to thank you for sharing with us and I'm looking forward to seeing you next month on March 22nd at the at the grand challenges conference on this topic and I'm going to turn it over to Yana so thank you again Dr. Mekangeli and we will see you next I will certainly see you next month and I hope many other people on this call will also see you so Yana can you wrap it up for us yeah thanks Jesse and thank you Andrea and I think there was also a question about that conference if it's an open invitation we can circulate accordingly if it is through this network following this seminar so with that I do want to give a shout out to another webinar that's happening later this month on February 24th we are going to be hosting a webinar focusing on digital development in Kenya and some of the challenges and opportunities this will be led by iGov Africa I think there'll be some really excellent insights and as we're talking about data collection as we're talking about tracking on the ground in the communities where we work and where we are developing solutions there are certainly those nexus elements that we can start to unpack more through events like this where we're talking about information communication technology and that enabling infrastructure as it fits into these other sectors and where we deliver solutions so I also want to give a shout out to another event in March really important with one of our major partner institutions UC Boulder they're having their Mosh symposium on March 11th and 12th so if it'll be a nice warm-up to the grand scholars conference please come join this symposium and really learn the greatest latest ingredients in a water sanitation and hygiene so with that I know we are way over time but I want to thank everybody for attending today if we didn't get your questions I apologize we will follow up with Dr. Andrea on answering those questions and publishing them on our seminar series with that I'd like to thank you all thank you our speakers and our moderator I wish you all the very best please stay safe wash your hands and certainly join us as e4c members so you can hear more about upcoming seminars and webinars. Buona sera! Buona sera! Ciao! Make your move see you soon! Bye bye!