 The most pressing issue of our time, which is how to create jobs and inclusion and a workforce that is ready to grapple with the Fourth Industrial Revolution. How are we going to do that? What's the role of business? What's the role of the public sector? What's the role of civic society and that? So I'm just going to give a few facts to kind of set the stage and then I'm going to introduce our panelists and we're going to have a chat amongst ourselves and then we're going to draw you all in very quickly. And we have some technology in which if you want to use Slido, I think that some of you probably already have this on your phones. You can email or text in your questions, they're going to appear right here on the screens here so we can ask them in real time and then we'll also be able to take questions from the audience as you like. I may also ask you some polls during the conversation. Maybe we can just say that the starting point is the Fourth Industrial Revolution is very anxiety provoking for a lot of people. It can be scary, but if you look historically, technology has always been a net new jobs creator. However, there are periods of disruption, right? Historically, I mean we could name all of them hundreds of years back, there are always periods of disruption. Right now we're going through changes that are broader and deeper and faster than ever before in history and so that's why it's so important to address these challenges. According to the Forum's Future of Jobs report, which you can find on the website, machines, algorithms in the workplace, all the new technologies we've been talking about all week could potentially lead to a net positive growth of 58 million jobs but only if the right labor policies and the right community between all three of these sectors is in place. I'm going to give you one more statistic which I find very, very interesting. Again from the WEF report, 65% of children that are entering primary school are going to work in jobs that don't even exist, so that's incredibly exciting, it's also incredibly challenging. I have a college, a daughter who's about to go to college and I'm trying desperately to figure out what the future is, so this is very personally relevant to me. So let me just start quickly in and introduce our panelists. Starting here from the far right we have Sharon Burrow who's the General Secretary of the International Trade Union Confederation and you're based in Belgium. To her left we have Hans Vestberg who is the Chief Executive Officer of Verizon Communications in the USA. To my left we have Muriel Penicode who is the Labor Minister of France and on the far left here we have Alain DeHase who is the Chief Executive Officer of the ADECO Group of Switzerland which is a Workforce Solutions, I want to make sure I get the description right there. Let me start, let me start actually Sharon with you because you're on the front lines of this, I mean you are representing one of the largest Labor organizations in the world. How would you frame these challenges for the workers of the planet? Well first of all let me say that we're not particularly frightened about the technology. We actually think there are ethical issues but there's societal issues about how you deploy technology and we don't believe in a deterministic future either so it is a matter of the use of the technology and then how you integrate it. But for trade unions we've been integrating technology for decades, you're right that what's different now is the speed and the dramatic shifts in the way production is managed or the way we're dealing with services of any kind. We do take a little bit of issue of the 68% of jobs, I mean I've heard these statistics for three decades, yes the skills will be very different so if that's the way you categorize it fine but you're still going to have agriculture and construction and manufacturing and services in a whole variety of ways, there will be some new industries. It's really the question of the skills. So if you walk back from this a little and you say so our challenge is really the transition and in fact Rani you put your finger on it, there are periods of disruption. Now we've not dealt with those as efficiently as we might have in previous transitions but it's always in economies that have dealt well with this, in businesses that have dealt with it, skilling, upskilling, re-skilling always been part of the equation and we need to add a few more things now because there will be displaced workers, I mean the jobs we can argue about whether there'll be more jobs or less jobs, we're not prepared to give up on full employment so we hope those statistics are right and more but it will be in fact the case that while there'll be melded or blended jobs with technology there'll also be displacement and we have to get the social contract right. The ILO's report released yesterday actually you know I mean already we've got inequality that's historic level so we need to have a renewed social contract for that basis but yesterday the ILO's report actually gives you a very good frame on this, reinvigorated social contract with a floor of a labour guarantee. So as we're seeing displaced workers by platform work where you are terribly precarious you can't actually plan your working life or your income then we can fix that and so there are solutions we've just got to have the mindset and the collaborative will to make it happen. That's a great framing and I'm thinking about kind of three points as you're speaking one the challenges differ with automation country to country big time there are questions about the meaning of work and even if jobs aren't completely displaced everyone's work is going to change so in a way this relates to all of us this isn't just about vulnerable people in certain populations Hans let me come to you because you're on the front lines of this I'm sure like every CEO I talk to skill issues the skills gap figuring out that the arbitrage between jobs that are available skills that are available is a big deal talk about a talk to us about that and give us some color about how this is playing out within your own firm yeah I think that first of all I mean my history has been that I've been on the borderline with between the technology evolution and how that is impacting positively on our society for many years of course first of all one need to understand that this fourth industrial revolution and technology is coming should be the technologies that actually can make this planet sustainable but because many of the previous industrial revolutions have actually used a lot of natural resources and if we want to have a quality everybody have the same possibilities we need technologies that are coming out on a global platforms and things like that so there's no way we cannot sort of try to stop it or something but of course it posed a couple of challenges especially for large cooperation I think that and that not only for the company I represent I mean we have 155,000 employees I think for any large cooperation you need new type of skills and then of course we cannot rely on the school system because that's going to take too long so of course we need a new social contract because we probably every three to five years need new type of skills in the company and you cannot fire and hire in and out in that size of company it is so much disruption so we need to get together with the public sector of course seeing that we have a long time learning from the public sector but as a company I mean the drive for education self-learning in a company is enormous I mean I can compare the last 20 years I've been in corporations I mean right now you have so many training can take internally but it's also up to the individual in the company if I want to reskill if I want to train these are the classes you can take if you want that job so of course as a corporation you work a lot with that the second thing which is also a challenge with all this because when you do global digital platform you have a total new job environment half time workers people that can actually sit in one country innovate the product and they 3d printed another country they're self-employed large corporation historically stand for all the benefits and having sort of social contribution all of that and suddenly we have that labor market millenniums that want to come in and then you think about large corporation and I think 10 15 years out will it be huge companies with hundreds of thousands of employees the Millennium's they seem to want to come in and out work two years here and part time and do what they want to do and the whole system has been built up around large corporation I think a lot about that I think if you're purpose driven and people really like to be there they think they're going to be there two years going to be there 100 years or 25 years so I think it's possibilities but those are the things with skills and the new workforce that we're getting in here are big challenges for any large corporation that's so fascinating and you know the point that you're making about 3d printing large businesses small businesses global local I mean I've heard that this talked about in the context of the trade debate you know maybe trade flows are going to be completely different based on new technologies but labor markets are going to be labor you're going to see them one country and you produce in another country I mean borders with the thought about borders being the way you deal with things labor market products and of course taxes we're discussing constantly right now between countries but it's so many other things that is digital economy economy will give you and it has to be there if not we're going to have urbanization to few places on earth we cannot have that if you're going to have a resource food planet then taking care of it yeah wow okay there's so much there we're going to come back to a couple of those points but no no no it's brilliant but you're raising an important question which is what is the new social compact so minister I'm going to turn to you and ask you how you see that question and what you see the role of the state being and working to buffer all these changes for for citizens first we share with you with you all the fact that the size and the speed of change is unknown so we face together an unknown so we have to organize in a different way to face the unknown we estimate that 10 to 15 percent of the job will be suppressed in the coming 10 years 10 to 20 25 will be created but maybe the most dramatic change is half a job will job at exchange is a coming the coming years the coming 10 years so the question of risk killing and upskilling become not only a humanist question or something nice something good but something vital vital for individual vital for company I think for company today the access to capital is much more easier that access to skills of course they were the war of talents since years and years but was only the top now it's all level at a level and the company or the nation that will tomorrow will grow and will continue to be able to share will be the one who have invested the best way in skills it's why we decided to launch a program that I will call upskills a nation in France and in last September we passed a law that create a new rights and new landscape for the whole scaling and of scaling upskilling and the lifelong learning with two main things first is to create a system that helps company to keep the employees but to risk kills massively and second it's probably the most innovative is to create a right for any of the 26 workers or employee in France we they will reserve they will benefit of a credit for training every year and 500 euros every year and an account and it will be freely on top of what do companies to prepare the future to anticipate they will have the freedom to choose their own training and in November there will be an app and everyone will be able to know is right but also to choose among the whole offer of all certified training so it's thousand and thousand and thousand of training in France and to apply and decide by by itself and why it's important because we see it in France as you know this week's most of many of our citizens in all our countries think that they are victims of globalization and technology it's a threat for them but when you are not in the driving seat change it's always a threat yeah the only way you you can be active you need to be proactive to you need to be in the driving seat to have part of choice to have a be able to choose your future it's never 100 100 percent you need to be empowered enabled to choose part of your professional life better than yesterday and that's why there's a sense of this is a slow is this individual training app and write with money and where you everyone will be able to make its own choice at the same time we are decided to invest 15 billions euro in five years to turn massively one million young people and one million unemployed people because still even if it decreased it's one year we have still very high level of unemployment in France to massively train to current job where we don't have the competencies one out of two company have difficulty has difficulty to recruit at the same time with a high level of unemployment but also of course every new jobs or transform job lead to a digital revolution or climate change revolution with a lot of opportunities to and so we do both at the same time massive investment of course this is based there's a new right is based on a discussion with unions and employers and based on an agreement that they have taken together so we have put that a little further that's the responsibility of the parliament and the government it's really something where of course we need on board all the industry all the companies and unions of course so this is fascinating I'm hearing three really important things first of all you've got that ecosystem going public private union all that is important you're echoing something that I've heard a lot of people say to me this week which is that it's very different depending on whether you're the one articulating change or receiving change very different dynamics and it's important that people feel empowered and then thirdly and I think this is really important something I hear all the time in the US this idea of giving a tax credit for investment in human capital rather than just capital capital because as you say there's a glut of money but there's a shortage of human capital so how to kind of help businesses to to incentivize that investment so those are great points along let me come to you you are as someone that runs a company that specializes in workforce solutions all kinds of temporary labor all kinds of sort of interim needs you're kind of in the middle of this you must be seeing a lot of the pressure points between these three different areas so I'm wondering if you can kind of articulate what you see as some of the pressing challenges and also if there are interesting solutions you're seeing that you would call out that are scalable in any particular countries yes first of all I share the the optimism of Sharon because technology is opening a lot of new opportunities and as you like figures I will also quote some figures 40 percent of the American population was in 1901 feeding the total American population today it is 2% and yeah we can do that and employment has never been so low in the US so it means that a lot of good job but it means that yeah thanks to creativity new industries new job will be created the big challenge for me from what we see at all 100,000 customers we have in 60 countries is the speed of the transition because technology is making its in road extremely fast and the question the challenge is how does society companies and employees adapt to this acceleration of technology in the road so the key challenge is about the speed and the way we transition from one one system to the to the to the new let's say to the future of work and there I would say that's my second message it's time to act because I'm it's my eighth year here at Davos and for sure the last three years everybody has spoken about the future of work the need to reskill upscale and so on and we are saying as the other group it is time to act yeah and what does it mean time to act it means that yes we need to reinvigorate the the social contract but this social contract must be a tripartite solution it must be a multi-stakeholder solution you have heard minister Pénico about the great initiative the French government has taken regarding reskilling this is very good because we see also that it is the responsibility of government in the world to put in place the right framework to allow this transition to upscale this upscale reskill people second you have the employers and especially entrepreneurs if you want your company your product to be sustainable towards the future you need to innovate you you need to adapt but especially you need the right talents yeah and if you don't develop the right talents for the future your company won't be sustainable so this is also I would say a call to the employers do you have a predictive workforce plan do you have a predictive plan regarding the talent you will need in one year two years three years five years in order to remain competitive and sustainable and third it is also time to act for individual staff everybody as an individual is as also the responsibility to remain employable yeah and we see that we made some statistic 57 percent 57 percent of employees finds that they are also individually responsible to become employable for the future so this is a call we are doing it is time to act it must be a multi-stakeholders responsibility and then we come with some innovation we had also a new paper and we said yes as upskilling reskinning is about investment in human capital first of all we say we should consider reskinning and upskilling as an investment and yeah treat it differently and instead as taking in reskinning and upskilling as a cost let's take it as a capital amortization and amortize your cost of reskinning according to the the life of your skills and we know that every individual today is losing 30 percent of his competencies of his competencies and skills after a period of four years so it is important to reskills yourself that yeah sorry go ahead make your last point and I want to jump no and what we said I'm glad with the initiative of the French government it should be individualized this reskinning solution because according to the the new sociological framework the gig economy the freelance and so on we see that especially the young generation is going from one company to the orders from one project to the orders so it is important that yes they have the flexibility they are looking for but at the same time there is a security put in place so that's why we are suggesting to individualize that kind of initiative that's a really fascinating point you're making me think about two things again the idea that labor should be an asset and not just a cost on the balance sheet both at a national level and a corporate level very important also this idea of how do how does the the millennial generation want to work what are the what are the different ways in which jobs are what are jobs going to look like I'm thinking I want to share one quick anecdote and then I want to ask you a question I had a fascinating conversation with a head of a German pharmaceutical company and she said that they have two tracks now in terms of employment that they offer when people come into the company they offer a traditional track you get benefits you have kind of a slow and steady path more security but then they offer an entrepreneurial track where you come in you don't maybe get the same amount of benefits but you have a piece of whatever innovation it's more of a kind of a venture capital model so 70% of millennials are choosing that model which I found was quite quite fascinating but this also begs the question was Sharon you touched on what is a good job and to your point there's plenty of job creation in some places in the US a lot of politicians would boast about job creation half of the fastest growing job categories are $15 an hour or less so what does a good job look like how do we make sure we have them well you make sure you have them first of all by ensuring everybody has a living wage a minimum living wage if you can't live on a wage then in fact you have a precarious life that's that leads to a precarious economy that needs to be supported by the state potentially well that true but often not at all look at the 800 thousand workers in America I think this is amazing that they're midline income earners but what you see is the precariousness when within 30 days they're losing their homes can't pay their mortgages having cars repossessed these are not poor workers but I wanted to say two things about the good job question we can make any job a good job and we can recognize work wear it to care work for example and pay it a good wage it's not about affordability the world three times richer than it was 20 years ago but we're not distributing it through wages so a minimum living wage universal social protection so you have income when in fact you have times when you've been displaced or when you know you're raising a family or whatever it might be and that can be for self-employed workers we organize self-employed entrepreneurs we organize informal women in cooperatives we organize farm workers who have no attachment to any corporation but relying corporations for supply chains as well as the big companies and we know the solutions you can put a labor guarantee under all workers it's a much more significant challenge for us to say do we have the political world to do that I think Elaine you're right we always like to be challenged as individuals but if you're in a displaced environment or great to hear your commitment to upskilling and retraining your own workforce because we've got away from doing that and that's a loss of capital for companies but actually I don't buy the millennial we want to be here and there and everywhere talk to them yes they want some excitement in the first years of their life but most of my staff are now in their category they're suddenly starting to get married and they want to have children so they want childcare and they want secure jobs and they're not too different from the rest of it kids grow up the only thing is they have a more flexible approach to technology because they grew up with it that's a good thing so I think the mix is there and I'm really pleased to hear minister Pentecost say that it's a credit to train on a certified course because I've seen a lot of skills portfolios funded not enough but a lot of them but we've seen then terrible fly-by-night companies who are not providing the skills that are valuable to individuals or to business because they don't have certification you can't have a trajectory of a qualifications base and so on so we have to get the back end of the systems right that's interesting but at the most challenging is to say are we prepared to give everybody a good secure working life whatever they're working at and we can do it we have the money universal social protection a minimum living wage and the right to bargain collectively in fact today we're talking about two really exciting pieces of work with the manufacturing team here because there's a big shift going on in industry with technology as well and with sustainability challenges and this sector manufacturing sector actually industry employees a quarter of the world's workforce and has a third of the global admission so as a passionate 1.5 supporter then because there are no jobs on a dead planet then we actually need to figure this out so in sweden for example it is a joint commitment the union's bargained for 3% of the income to go into a fund the employers have contributed and now they realise that that only pays for about four to six months of income and training so they're taking now with government support actually the unemployment component of what it would be like to be out of work for a year putting that in the fund and they can now fund income and training for up to a year they've done the same thing different slightly different between employers and workers in denmark and we can do it anywhere if we are actually creative about this and everybody's on the job together but people do want security I love I love the real-world example of this working because it's really important I mean so often we talk about 35,000 feet things and to be able to say look this country has done it and it's replicable that's really hugely important you mentioned a couple people have mentioned climate you know in the US green the idea of a green new deal is becoming a political issue I know in many countries that's that's been the same for for a while I'm curious how you all maybe Hansi have thoughts on this how you see that integration win-win potentially no I think that this is first of all the role I mean I've been sort of CEO for long time different companies the change of the role that you have and the responsibility I think is maybe I wasn't mature enough before but I think that you manage your shareholders manage your employees is important and customers but the social responsibility if you lead a large corporation has just dramatically changed I mean if you think about the climate thing and I think that every company need to think like this first of all you need to go to yourself what is you as a company doing I mean I can look at our company okay we try to travel less we do everything we can to reduce our seat to footprint then the next step is where we have 10x more impact is where the equipment where we have equipment all over the world we use procure things that has less power consumption all the time that's 10x then have 10x on top of that and that's where I really have an impact that's when I have solution that is IoT solutions where we can where my customers can actually have a much less CO2 emission and does this create jobs absolutely ultimately it's great both jobs and and also a purpose and a mission for a company contributing to I see we both have the 17 goals and I think that if you come into a company today even if you're a millennium you want to work for a company that's actually trying to do good in there and you always need to go back to your strategy our strategy we want to be best on technology worldwide we use that in our case any company can be part of it and I think that creates job it creates motivation and purpose for the people in the company and I just want to go back to that yes we get all this service about millenniums and all of that I I'm not equally binary as you I say the jury is still out how they would like to have their work life in the future and I think also they're they're going to get families they're going to think differently as well over time but we need to cater for both of it but clearly we see right now initially they want to work differently but on this climate I think you both can create a lot of solutions which are creating jobs but start with yourself before you tell everybody else we need to do this and that you need to go into your own company show your own employees you are taking care of whatever you can do internally and then you can move out towards you're making a very important point about this solving this problem not just the climate problem but the jobs problem and potentially these two of them together are it's integral both to customers who want to see this but also to the labor pool because as you say millennials don't want to work for companies that don't have purpose minister I want to come to you on the idea of climate and innovation and job creation this is obviously an international challenge this is not an easy moment to have multilateral agreements politically Christia Freeland the trade minister of Canada was on stage the other day and made a very very interesting point about how yes we are a global community you have the big problems or global problems but you need policies that work within your countries too because you can't actually craft smart foreign policy unless you have strong domestic support France is in a very interesting moment with this at the moment how is the tension between global and local playing out in your country in terms of labor markets and job creation first I would say that and it's an echo of what Sharon she said we are in a very important moment I think the future is not written but the long term is urgent very urgent otherwise it will not be long term on both sides the climate change with all the opportunities and challenges it's represents but also on the social part I'm convinced that we globalization without more social regulation will go to the end to the end it's the same for climate change so it's not time to make a lot of nuance it's a time for big action and for instance today in an excellent ILO report we will support the idea of universal social protection minimum when I was an AVP in HR I did the first global agreement on this in our company it was then on now there are 300 company that through global deal initiatives that were launched by the Prime Minister of Sweden our voluntary on the voluntary base doing global agreement on social so it can be training it can be social protection but if we don't have this content in Europe first I will go back to your question and to Europe and at the global level people react negatively to globalization to technology the fear and they will say stop and they stop from a and the rise of nationalism in many many countries is linked to this threat yeah and if we don't have more social content in Europe and in the world the time will be very difficult it's the same question that's climate change that after how you combine yeah it's not easy we're exactly facing that in France at the moment we are determined on the social part and they determine on the ecological part but change for climate change enough quickly means what means change a lot of practices in jobs in agriculture construction industry transport waste management a lot of opportunity of a lot of new jobs how you make it possible for people to join to catch up enough quickly for this to be represent an opportunity the social movement we had in the street the last two months started by this question because we wanted to go quickly to change our our practices on CO2 emission through cars and people say that we don't need to go to work and to live how you joined this long term and the short term and that's the key for me of the agreement we need for that we need a stronger and better Europe because France alone will not be able to do it we do our part yeah and I think we need to Ali Moore at the global level to what we said for years and years but for years and years it was just nice words how you combine the economic growth the climate change and the social progress and if we don't combine the three the well will be chaotic if we combine and this is our responsibility for all of us we can make a change and I think it's not written the good news it's not written but the good news is we know the statistics for every dollar you invest in climate solutions you are going to create jobs yeah now there are going to be jobs that disrupt it as well and we can again within the social contract above that labor guarantee we can actually put the just transitions principles that are worked out with the B team we're trialling the ILO's just transition principles translated into business speak about how you engage your workforce in the change from the beginning because the trade union movement is convinced whether it's climate or technology and sometimes it'll be both most often now it'll be both then if you engage your workforce if you have secure pensions for those who are going to retire perhaps earlier than they might want if you were have the skills support we're talking about redeployment support and income through the transition it works it actually works people then feel secure enough to say okay well what is the change we're going to have to make because the fear is what we have to get over and the age of anger that we're seeing not just in France minister I was on the streets of India two and a half weeks ago 200 million people on strike including farmers and everybody and the anger is palpable I've never felt it before Ellen, jump in so these we can solve this but you have to get high ambition through engagement or just transition and we have to give people good jobs and an income on which they can live again like in the previous discussion I think it's again time to act and in this perspective there is a famous word you get what you measure and also in this commission and this report from the the global commission there is a recommendation which is to deploy the so-called integrated reporting you know companies today are mainly reporting their financials but if we really want to move forward is really to not only to encourage but to strongly encourage companies to put in place the integrated reporting which force companies to report for sure on the financials like it was in the past but also on the social key factors, key metrics and the environmental key metrics and this is this will force companies to really move think about it but it will also make the financial community and especially the investment community community to look at these metrics and invest in companies which are really working for a great future well and it feels like we're at a tipping point because obviously you know last year big news with BlackRock saying we need to look at more than just share price but a lot you know I mean this is great great point what is the metric we need a new metric our CEOs are telling me okay we love that it's not just about share price that's good but what is the metric yeah and I know I think this is absolutely right and I think that I mean I've been in companies that have a sustainability report since 25 years back so I don't I think that we have been reporting all this time and you start to get the investors start asking you are doing this I think the problem is that you have a financial metrics where standard and poor and everybody this is exactly how we rate you and this is a triple B in the social environment there's so many environment and so many things that and I think as a as a corporation we would be happy if it would be one set of benchmark that is important for the society and do it and the global alliance the global benchmark alliances which is you is a foundation in Netherlands is actually starting to try to do that I'm also on the board of you and foundation which is of course supporting that and I think that ultimately we all are trying to do that sustainability reporting but if we can also even get some benchmark how it hangs together between us it's even better and I think that CEOs like me and many others we would even welcome that but right now you know you meet investors here and they ask you about one thing and other they are measuring this and of course it becomes 3000 KPIs ultimately and then you need to decide these are the KPIs that really matters to me hopefully it matters for the society as well yeah go ahead if I had Hans and I we are CEO of listed companies so we meet every year 120, 150 investors in individual meetings how many times did you did we get the questions about or social and environmental metrics I would say I get it but how many times did I bring it up myself many that's very good that's a good inspiration for all of us it's not only their responsibility it's partly my responsibility as a leader to bring it up what we're doing why we're doing it and why it's part of my strategy it's too many times people believe this is philanthropy it's not philanthropy it's part of my overall strategy it doesn't come from it and that's why I need to bring it up yeah and I worked with European investors now a little bit more American and they're a little bit different as well so they don't open it I love the energy with this we do need to shift investors I mean we have 37 trillion dollars of workers capital invest in the global economy it's our pensions and we are frankly sick of it being passively invested you give it to the list it's actually not doing good for workers because a lot of companies we invest in simply don't pay living wages they don't respect rights they don't bargain collectively but equally important it's not doing the job for the climate either and so one of our latest initiatives because we're so passionate about getting the trust from Just Transition we actually partnered with the PRI and with the London School of Economics and Harvard and we've put out an investor brief on on Just Transition and I'm actually kind of surprised but delighted that I don't know exactly the latest figure but it's almost up to 10 billions already been 10 trillions already been actually signed on to actually look through the lens of saying is it about Just Transition and are we doing good for the planet and for workers so you know we have to shift the investment frankly if all the CEOs here told stand and pause that they were just going to tear up their ratings if they didn't include us as social elements action point this would be really action point CEOs they're actually working on it they're working on it you know they don't own you and you know I mean Paul Paulman said I'm going to quarterly report the world hasn't it hasn't fallen apart the proposal why don't we use the world economic firm to accelerate that because we all agree if you don't measure environment and social we will not pay progress but as you said there are plenty of standards there are plenty of measurements but not a big one that is a reference and at the same time even if it's increasing very few investors take it at the same level I would say seriously so how you we cannot do have a workshop to say well we we need we need to progress on that because we'll all say now the number of CEOs and even investors yeah yeah let's say it's important let's also call it to action because if we don't if we are not consistent from an investment standpoint and from a measurement standpoint we will have the same discussion in three years I love this okay another action point we're being filmed Klaus I hope you're listening let's get let's get a group of CEOs labor leaders government officials to sign on to new metrics at the WEF next year that's one challenge for us very good I'm gonna before we're dead okay all right oh my god I love this thank you for ducking are we done now or not no you know you got 20 you got 15 more minutes okay one more question before I open it up to the audience I want to bring it back to the individuals and to education because this is a big debate globally you know what is the path how should education be reformed in order to train the new workforce there's I mean one thing I actually feel optimistic about there's a lot of kind of negativity around the skills gap in education I actually feel optimistic because in the U.S. anyway I see even though the system is very flawed in many ways I see a lot of paths opening up so I see a number of businesses for example working to create programs where kids will come out of high school with a two-year college degree as well as a you know in a in a state system where then that cuts the educational costs later on I see community colleges and vocational programs the kind of Germanic model becoming more important I see talk about making education cheaper I see questions about whether a four-year degree is for everyone so I'm curious if you all want to jump in on that and say what you think needs to happen in the educational system perhaps minister you want to start to ensure good jobs and a good labor force first it's a basic remark but it's it's still from it's still very important to say it we need to invest massively to the primary education I mean big-care that's interesting primary education we have measured in France that in fact children were very poor when they enter the school the primary school they have 10 times less words to dispose how they can succeed so what we are doing now in France we're investing massively on the first we are going to do the early agitations three to six compulsory mandatory forever one because we have 90% that go and it's free but the 10% that don't come don't go most of them are from poor family so first we are we want to have all the kids to have the same opportunity and then at the level of six at the age sorry of six where really they learned they learned to read and write which is critical we are doing a massive investment to have much more teacher much more different approach for sure that all kids really master reading writing technology math and and respect and social respect it's social respect I love that that's in there with STEM and it seems the soft skills to live together yeah yeah and it seems trivial but even in a developed country we're not there for 100% of the population we need 100% of our kids to be sure they have the tools that we're interested in and after we do massive things after 16 years and that's more my part with my colleague of education before but it's a joint effort because we need to invest to onion kegs especially for instance for the reading the kids who don't have book at school the book at home nobody read a story they don't progress the same so we have to compensate that it will make them more involved in a cultural environment and I think it's this early investment based on the fact that after 16 we will have a massive investment to retrain all the time I think it's a it's a key it's very simple but to do it massively it's a challenge but I think it's it's not interesting you have to start so early too I can you say I use the same model for everything I try to do so first of all you do with your own staff you try to give them all the potential to to reskill and train and so then of course as we're technology company we also understand that we are doing massive connectivity around the country in the U.S. especially so and then of course we're very interested to get STEM out in the school so we have actually decided that we are doing 400 million U.S. dollars investment in 350 schools that doesn't have connectivity don't have the the pads and nor having a STEM program there you need the even better collaboration within public and private because then you know you get either can a private company come in to do it but I see it if I do it internally and then I can go out and say that I can do it externally it's actually working so we are in the middle of deployment to deploy 400 million U.S. dollars in 350 schools in the U.S. that doesn't have connectivity even though they can be very close where it's very great areas they don't have it and so I think it has to be a partnership I of course need agility in the education system much quicker learning process etc but it's also responsibility for public companies part of their strategy and again it's part of our strategy is to do technology is to learn people that technology and of course then we can bring it to them okay I've got it do you want to make a final point before no I would like to to bring another perspective sure because you have said it we don't know what the jobs will be in five to ten years from now but what we know it is very important to learn soft skills new soft skills yes yes teamwork creativity yes empathy and I think it is important from the basic education to learn this new capacity this curiosity also how to learn to learn because this will be probably the best skills you can bring with you towards the future this is a really profound point actually because I mean there is a lot of research to show that teams create more productive more profitable companies but frankly incentive wise sometimes you have a superstar economy you know that that's another issue we could have another panel on incentives but Sadi I'm looking at you maybe next year let me we've got a couple questions coming through here on the on the iPad so let me let me ask these to the group first from Johanna Bryson it seems to me that the issue is not jobs but wages and inequality does AI make people more substitutable reducing wage differentiation and the collective power of labor so maybe Sharon others you want to well I mean that's true there's no doubt that if we don't I mean inequality's been seen as a global risk and you know you'll hear people say it's not globalization we are all committed to a trade a global trade environment but not on the current rules because the current model of supply chains are exploitative they're dehumanizing and frankly good CEOs who were you know work in their normal direct employment relationships in probably a very positive way have no idea what's going on in their supply chains they choose often not to have any idea because that's the obscurity now due diligence is mandated it's the UN business and human rights principles it's voluntary in there but it's mandated in France we want due diligence mandated everywhere it is about responsibility and that's something technology can actually help with I mean I'm hearing a lot of interest for supply chain folks no you're right I mean even though you have 150 000 employees when I start looking into how many are impacting every day and part of my supply chain they need to live up to the same standard I mean ultimately it's our responsibility and our brand that is involved if I have a partner that is not living up to to the standard that we have and we have cases like that it happens but but you need to audit that you need to put into the contracts with the supplier saying that this is how we behave this is our rules etc and if you don't do it I can tell you it will not work especially if you're going to get to an environment where you're a small company and you use partners who are delivering everything you need a very transparent supply chain you know to do that but you know the AI question technology unchecked is actually fueling monopolies and you know more about this runner than anybody I'm your biggest fan but indeed if you take a company like Amazon we gave up on competition policy for example there are others and yet Amazon's direct employees in the US are paid you know richest man in the world company now is expanding in every sector and it will end it will within four or five years be the dominant global retailer buying up all sorts of companies that are risking development in other environments but a third of the workforce in the US in the US is eligible for food stamps so imagine what the exploitation is like through the supply chain that's got to end that is about the rule of law a new social contract a labor guarantees of law and due diligence it's a package that can work yeah jump in now I think coming back to the statements I think we should not blame AI technology for the wage issue and so on I think there are two separate topics thanks to technology we can amplify the human resources the work of the human resources we can concentrate the human resources on what they really like to do so we should look at the opportunities of the technology the other topics regarding wages and so on should be treated I think differently without the point of the technology it's all about this new reinvigorated social contract about the wealth distribution and who is who is getting what for what but for me this has nothing to do with technology okay let me put up one more question here and then it will open it up to folks in the audience as well and actually I'm going to put two questions that are sort of related one that's popped up as well from an anonymous questioner as investors in a low interest environment I am not sure we are ready to allow less profitable companies what do you think that's interesting because that question is essentially saying look we're at a market turning point here we may be at the end of a credit cycle I mean if you think about recessions typically happen every eight to 11 years we're 10 years into a global recovery cycle is this a moment in which we're going to be able to make the kinds of changes that we're talking about here I think the assumption is wrong okay sustainable companies are more popular yeah okay so if you don't believe in that I mean I think we need to have that mindset and that we have proven I think so I think the statement is wrong I mean you should if you if you leave the company you should believe if you do sustainability and doing the right thing for the society that's going to bring you a better strategy better customers going to like you better you can have about the better products I mean if you don't believe that I mean wow because the question is right but why have we got low or stagnant growth yeah comes back to Henry Ford got this right a long time ago demand if if if you want people to buy your products you have to have a living wage yeah and consequently without that the cycle of economic growth in when all the wealth is concentrated in 1% the economics are simple I'm always fascinated by Henry Ford the fact that he was pro-demand but anti-union yeah that's like you know we could do a whole another session on him I know it's a world of time him sometime but they give him that because he's dead but yeah yeah yeah I'm not going into that conversation no you're not oh my gosh okay well I'm sorry are we are we going to take question are there mics there's a question there okay yeah let's let's go back here and then I'll do one yeah thank you very thank you very much my name is Hal Bin from the ministry of human resources and social security China and we are a ministry responsible for promoting employment developing skew and extending our social insurance programs and promoting harmonious labor relations so the topic today in this room is very relevant so in fact we have a vice minister here attending this conference excellent yes listening very attentively so the discussion and insight is really relevant to us the question uh I would like to ask perhaps all of all of you is that we our topic is about a strategy job creation strategy for industry 4 in this job in this strategy there is a very important group that is the people who live in poverty so how in developing our strategies that we can help those people yeah that that that they can that are most vulnerable yes yeah to the force industrial relation industrial and really even thrive so that's a that's a great question and I would add to that something from the the the pad here how do you create growth in cities that are not international hubs you know in the rural areas in second or third tier cities so who wants to to speak to that maybe I can start if you're I can kick off we know each other very well thank you for your presence and thank you also for your questions now when we looked at the data and there has been statistic from the OECD about the development of the unemployment during the last 10 years and what it's very interesting you see that in fact the the the impact of the future of work of the industry 4.0 is mainly on the medium skill people but people with rather limited skills but perhaps a lot of soft skills empathy customer service and so on has not been impacted by this technology in road also the highly skilled people have not been really impacted on the contrary you have seen the you see the employment growing the big impact is on the medium medium skills and that's where we need to reskill these people or to upskill them to really bring them in the competencies and the skills new technology is requested to function go ahead now maybe a French experience on that first in the year or in a bigger skills investment plan we target mainly of course young people and unemployed people so those skills the level of unemployment it's 3% from managers so there's no more unemployment from managers 6% for qualified people 18% for unqualified people so the first difference is skills second thing is where you live yeah and we have specific program because when you live in a suburb areas or rural area we can measure that you have with the same qualification have the chance to get a job if you're not you're not the right address or you don't have a way to go there so it's part of our plan and we can see it in our politics third it's bad women and that's the question of wedges economy economic performance and social equity and the care economy so pick a side yeah yeah so half the half the family in France are single mothers how do they get a job how they can be skilled how they've been trained so we and how we feel the gender gap it's why we passed the bill also on the gender equality and since first of January now there's an obligation of results that we have built with social partners for all company in France and we are very confident because we have created index to measure to make progress that we have built it together and for the first time on this topic we have full support of unions and employers and but today we have 9% of difference of wedges for the same jobs still 46 years after the law the previous law and 25% if you convert career that's in all countries so that's part of the question of wedges and skills and we have also create rights supplementary rights for people working part time because 80% are women so you have to you cannot what I mean is you cannot separate your policy inside your whole list one is women one is education one is environment one is a middle size or suburbs because you have to combine them and then you can innovate okay we have two minutes left we have one very eager questioner back here make it a quick one yes I think that we should use the fourth industrial revolution to solve this problem and not create indexes between companies and governments ask the people ask the workers and have them develop their own dashboard about their customized personal needs for training and go overcoming poverty let's not repeat the big thing now we can reach every worker ground up Facebook page WhatsApp they can we can now customize the training needs for every family in the world easily if we allow them to measure their own strengths and weaknesses okay that is oh wait do we have oh Saudi are you gonna have a couple of words here at the end what are we I can yeah please okay Sadia you're on this is your show actually this is the woman behind a lot of the stats you've been hearing about so okay well thank you very much Rana and thank you to the panel fascinating conversation and I think much more solutions oriented than in the past year I think we went beyond the context to beyond discussing how there might be disruptions to jobs and really starting to talk about what are some of the solutions around jobs education and skills what was also interesting is all of the broader factors that came into play the topic around market concentration the topic around the need for better social safety nets all of this is being taken forward in the forum's new center for the new economy in society which we've just created a few months ago and it's meant to be a response it's to to go to go to Alan Alan's point let's not worry about technology as the problem let's think about what the opportunity space is and let's try to identify how we deal with the implications for our economic policies and for our society so for those of you who would be interested in continuing the conversation please do talk to me or any of my team members and we'd be happy to connect with you thanks Rana thank you for that thank you to the panelists for a really engaging and action brilliant conversation you guys not okay thanks good leadership good leadership