 Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where you are joining us from. My name is Nancy Lindborg. I'm the president and CEO of the U.S. Institute of Peace, and we are delighted to welcome viewers from around the world virtually for this event. I want to give a very special welcome to Assistant Secretary Robert Destro. We're very honored to have you here with us today, and I look forward to hearing his insights on the situation of minority communities in Iraq. And I want to give a special warm welcome to our panelists who are joining us from Iraq, William Warda and Suzanne Araf, two longstanding, wonderful partners of USIP, as well as USIP's own Osama Garazi who is joining us from Lebanon. At USIP, supporting Iraqi minority communities, Christian, Zidi Shabak and others, has been a priority for a decade. And in the past six years, we have redoubled our efforts as they've recovered from genocide and the devastation of ISIS and as they advocate at all levels of government for important rights and security. Today, we're working in Ninoa province in areas such as Hamdenia, Sinjar and Talafar support these communities as they seek to heal and to help facilitate the self-return of the hundreds of thousands who are still displaced. We produced in the course of this work a very important tool, the USIP Conflict and Stabilization Monitoring Framework and we use the framework to collect data from Iraqis living in the conflict affected areas of Ninoa to inform policymakers and programs to promote social cohesion and to mitigate the potential for violent conflict. And the findings from this framework confirm that reconciliation is still very much needed and it is challenged by the very unique barriers to social cohesion that exist both in and between these communities. I know that many of us are watching very closely the situation in Iraq. After the unprecedented protest movements that began in October 2019, a new government was formed, months of widespread demonstrations in Baghdad and the southern provinces have really underscored that some of the core grievances of the Iraqi people still need to be addressed. And now, of course, as we're seeing around the world, the global coronavirus pandemic has exacerbated many of these challenges, including contributing to a financial crisis and increasing livelihood insecurities. Families in Iraq are especially vulnerable to the coronavirus as many of them are still in IDP camps, where, of course, access to proper health care and social distancing remains a challenge. We're seeing positive developments. After months of political uncertainty, Iraq now has a new prime minister, a new government with the opportunity to set a path for more positive change. The U.S.-Iraq Strategic Dialogue launched last month could offer a chance to reset bilateral relationships. The State Department Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor and USAID have and continue to play really key roles in the stabilization of Iraq. We have been honored to partner with both, with the efforts to work in the community and in support of minority communities. And I'm really delighted that we'll have a chance to work from Assistant Secretary Destro and from our wonderful panel. After his remarks, I will moderate a brief discussion with Assistant Secretary Destro and then we'll move to a conversation with our panelists, William Warda, Susanna Reff, and Osama Karizzi. Lee Tucker, USIP Senior Program Officer on the Middle East team will moderate that session. We invite all of you to take part in this event by asking a question through the YouTube live stream in the comments section. And please engage with us and with each other on Twitter with the hashtag Iraq minorities. With that, I am delighted to introduce DRL Assistant Secretary Robert Destro, who is a long history as a human rights advocate and a civil rights attorney with experience in elections, employment, and constitutional law. The legal work that he's done includes collaboration with the Peace Research Institute in Oslo in a 15-year dialogue among Christians, Muslims, and Jewish leaders, both in the United States and the Middle East. And he has worked to promote the release of political prisoners and prisoners of conscience in the Middle East. Prior to his appointment in the State Department, Assistant Secretary Destro served on the faculty at Catholic University's Columbus School of Law and served as its interim dean from 1999 to 2001. He also was the director of the Institute for Policy Research and Catholic Studies from June 17 to 2019. So bringing a long experience and much passion to this important work, we're delighted to have you and Assistant Secretary Destro over to you. Well, thank you very much, President Lindbergh, and thanks for the kind introduction. Good morning from Washington, D.C., to all of you who are with us this morning on the Zoom platform. You know, the Zoom makes things very convenient, as we all know, makes it possible to be together to address these important issues during this time of pandemic. And I'm really honored to be here with my distinguished co-panelist, William Warda and Susan Aureth. I must say that these virtual meetings make, you know, make it a lot more difficult, though, to have those all-important coffee breaks where all the actual work and networking gets done during most conferences like this. So we're going to have to figure out a way to keep the discussion going, although I must say that it requires a lot less travel to do it this way. But in any event, I'm honored to meet you, Mr. Ruff. This is the first time we've met, and I regret that our meeting is limited to Zoom this morning. You know, we'll most certainly arrange a more suitable meeting in the future. I'm also honored to be joined by William Warda, co-founder along with his wife Pascale of the Hammurabi Human Rights Organization. We can and will find another opportunity to discuss this, to discuss these discussions offline and hopefully soon in person. So let me begin my remarks by noting the valuable contribution that USIP brings to the table. The information collected for tools like the Conflict Stabilization Monitoring Framework is invaluable as we make policy and programming decisions. That's a topic I'll address a little bit more broadly a little later in response to the questions. The CSMF is the result of many years of partnership between USIP and the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, which in the world of State Department acronyms we call DRL. Because of our shared priorities, we seek to expand our understanding of the conflict in Iraq and to look below the surface in an effort to uncover how cultural, culture, religion and other factors contribute to the complex community dynamics that Mr. Warda and Mr. Warda and Ms. Ref address and seek to remedy every single day. We can't possibly hope to have robust protections for minorities and women in Iraq without developing creative ways to bring peace and prosperity to all Iraqis. The type of analysis that USIP is doing has helped us to understand the impact of the October protests in Iraq, which on the surface seemed like a familiar cry for improvements in basic services and greater employment opportunities. But they turned to a reform movement such as we have not seen in modern day Iraq, a movement that crossed all social, gender, ethnic and religious barriers and resulted in the resignation of a prime minister. More recently we have witnessed confirmation of new government leadership. We're grateful that Iraq's new leaders have publicly committed to greater accountability. We look forward to their fulfilling their pledge to take immediate action aimed towards resolving the issue of internal displacement and to achieving the safe and dignified return of internally displaced persons to their homes and communities. It will be a big job for the new government to promote respect for religious, ethnic and national diversity in Iraq. I fear that it will be an even bigger job as the new government seeks to confine weapons to the official security institutions. I understand that these promises are just words until we see concrete actions to fulfill them. But we stand with the new administration as it moves forward with the implementation of its promises. All of us are hopeful. We know that we stand on the brink of a brighter future for Iraq. And with partners like USIP and tools like the CSMF, we can craft responses that will be effective over both the short and the long term. So now let me turn to the main theme of my remarks. Every one of us watched in horror as ISIS committed genocide in its campaign of rape, murder, kidnapping and mayhem in Nineveh province. The names Sinjar, Mosul and Nineveh plain are forever associated with unspeakable cruelty aimed at communities whose residents have made their homes in the region for over two millennia. All of us know how difficult it was to get and to keep the attention of the world as ISIS committed unspeakable crimes. We called it a genocide, which was in my view a good first step. For over four years now, those of us who are concerned about the future of Iraq's minority communities have been asking what's next. Today and during the course of the ongoing conference, we turn now to the far more difficult task of restoring the residents of these once vibrant communities to their homes and to the remedial phase of the question, how do we account for the atrocities that ISIS committed against all the communities of the region? The protection of these communities and others who are targets of terrorism, wherever these terrorists might be found, remains a human rights priority for the Trump administration. Protecting human rights is not only the right thing to do, it is or should be in my view the organizing principle of realpolitik. Governments that respect basic human rights and seek to include individuals from every community, whether those communities are defined in ethnic, religious, national, gender or other terms, foster economic prosperity, social stability, friendly relations, and in the end, keep us all more secure. As the U.S. national security strategy suggests, nations that respect human rights and fundamental freedoms are more prosperous, secure, and stable partners. This is why the United States cares deeply about ethnic and religious diversity in Iraq and is committed to promoting the preservation of human rights and well-being of the ethnic and religious minorities of the Nineveh province. This is a U.S. policy priority, where champion voluntary dignified and safe return of internally displaced persons to their areas of origin, free from intimidation by security forces or armed groups. We're encouraged to hear that the Iraqi government and Iraqi lawmakers consider this a priority as well. On June 20th, on the occasion of World Refugee Day, Council Representative Speaker Mohammed Al-Habousi said that Iraq needed to resolve the status of IDPs in the country, adding that resolving the IDP issue, quote, is the true indicator of the rise of the Iraqi state, unquote. He further stated, and I quote, we strive to address the causes of displacement and to create the appropriate environment that enables displaced persons to return to their homes, which requires the government to assume all of its responsibilities for the success of these endeavors, unquote. We're encouraged in support of Mr. Al-Habousi's declaration and will continue to support these efforts. While it may be a stated priority, however, safe returns are not yet a reality. We understand that some members of an Ordi group still do not feel safe enough to return to their homes. In 2014, ISIS ordered all Christians in Mosul to either convert to Islam, leave the area, or be killed. At least 500 Christians were killed when they did not flee ISIS territory in time, and more than 15,000 departed today. Unfortunately, violence against minorities is perpetrated by the militias, those outside the control of the state, with no meaningful investigations by authorities. This continues to discourage voluntary returns. We have pressed the Iraqi government to take significant action to end the environment of impunity for government officials, for Iranian-backed militias, for security forces, and anyone else who commits human rights violations. We're using our own tools to hold these militias accountable, including the global Magnitsky sanctions against militia leaders like Rayan Al-Kalbani and Wad Pado, who have directed human rights abuses, intimidation, and corruption to our minority communities. As we face our own challenges here at home, we'll continue to stress with the government of Iraq in coordination with like-minded partners to need to investigate and hold accountable individuals for violence against the media, protesters, voters, civil society activists, and minority populations. And just as a parenthetical here, I think that people often forget that the most basic human right there is, is founded on the rule of law and the ability to walk down the street or to live in your home without fear of being molested or killed. That's because of the potential for harassment and extortion that exist in some areas. We've asked that the reintegration process allow for IDPs to integrate into the community of their choosing and include considerations based on individuals' perceived level of security. In order to increase the sense of security in the knit of a governorate, we have encouraged Iraqi leadership to place PMF militias in the area to replace them with professional security forces locally recruited so that they reflect the concerns of the populations they serve. We support the new Iraqi administration's goal to hold national elections as soon as the reform laws can be finalized and the election can be administered credibly. As a part of this goal, we seek to ensure that women, members of minority communities and IDPs are better integrated into society and governance and can effectively participate in the electoral process. This necessitates the removal of the requirements for IDPs to return to their places of origin in order to vote and the removal of any other barrier to participation that would impact any specific minority or class of people. We're also deeply concerned with the number of Iraqis living in squalid camp conditions, lacking food, clean water, and basic hygiene supplies. We understand that without hope for change, these camps could quickly become breeding grounds for extremism and radicalization. That's why the United States remains one of the top donors to the Iraqi humanitarian response, providing more than $2.7 billion since October 2014. With the U.S. government's support, humanitarian agencies are providing IDPs and vulnerable returnees and host community members with the basic support they need, along with healthcare, shelter support, and assistance to recover their livelihoods and education, among other things. We're also concerned for family members of those accused of ISIS affiliation. Many of these individuals have committed no crime other than having a brother, husband, or other family member accused of being an ISIS member. For these cases, we encourage the government to provide fair and transparent process of reintegration into local communities. In order for this to happen, the government must reform, standardize, and streamline the security clearance process. Separately, it must also delink the security clearance process from the acquisition of civil documentation. This will allow IDPs to gain immediate access to critical basic services, including health and education, while their security clearances are being processed. And to prevent another generation from being disenfranchised and prone to embrace radical, secular, and sectarianism. We've also worked with the Iraqi justice sector to improve the judicial process and promote evidence-based convictions and have seen limited success in the decrease of convictions based on forced confessions. A number of components of the State Department provide support to the UN investigative team against Daesh, UNITOD, a project on which I'm actually working today to continue its effort to collect, store, and preserve evidence of ISIS atrocities. Our Office of Global Criminal Justice provides funding to organizations to promote accountability for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. This work is helping the communities of the Nineveh Plain by collecting evidence, preparing actionable case files law enforcement can use to hold ISIS to account. DRL has also been providing assistance in Iraq, including to religious and ethnic communities and other marginalized populations. Our strategic approach to the survival and protection of religious and ethnic communities supports programs that promote inclusion through reconciliation, equitable, and representative political participation, and access to services and governance structures that complement government of Iraq-led stabilization efforts. DRL programs have worked directly with Christians, Yazidis, Shabaks, Turkmen, Khakais, and Sabia Mandehans through both community interventions and empowerment of local leaders. In 2018, the State Department and USAID increased funding to support the recovery of minority communities and the sustainable return of displaced minority populations. Current US funding has expanded on the efforts already in place under DRL, including USAID, OFDA, and PRM provide funding for humanitarian assistance to IDPs and other conflict-affected populations, including ethnic and religious minorities. USAID also provides stabilization funding to restore essential basic services and small-sale infrastructure destroyed or damaged by ISIS. They also support genocide recovery through a variety of health, livelihood, and social service programings. In addition to the specific program, we regularly document and report on Iraq's human rights violations, including in our annual Iraq Human Rights Report, with a specific focus on atrocity prevention. We'll continue to utilize public diplomacy to amplify the voices of members of minority groups, former detainees, and all other IDPs, and to share their messages with our other partners and allies. So as Iraqis move their country forward, the United States and DRL will continue to provide support that helps protect and empower minority populations in Iraq. And as new developments arise, we will rely on our friends here at USIP and all the experts on this call to inform our policy and programming. So thank you, President Lindbergh, for giving me the opportunity to talk, and I look forward to answering any questions you might have. Thanks again. Wonderful. Thank you for a very heartening and sweeping set of comments, Assistant Secretary Destro. It's really a pleasure to have you here with us. And you covered a lot of ground, but before we get into more of the specifics, I would love to ask you about the U.S.-Iraq Strategic Dialogue that was held earlier this month. You mentioned the new government. We understand the dialogue covered a pretty broad range of issues from security and counterterrorism to economics and energy, political issues and cultural relations. What are your thoughts? Do you think that the dialogue will help to reset the relationship and move forward with some very positive initiatives? Well, I think the easiest way to answer it is that it opens up a new opportunity under the Strategic Framework Agreement for DRL to support Iraq's democratic institutions. I think that all of us going into that strategic dialogue understand that this is not an abstract discussion. There's a lot of hard work that needs to be done, and it gives us an opportunity to focus just like this program focuses on what needs to be done. And for those on the call who know me, I always like to come out of any meeting with homework either for me or for somebody else to do. So it's not an abstract discussion. There are certain things that need to get done, and we need to make a list and get them done. Great. Well, that sounds very, very encouraging. You also, you know, I can tell that your background as a lawyer is very helpful for this challenge and for this role, and you covered a whole list of issues related to justice of reform and accountability. And I wonder if you could just say a bit more about where you see the progress. I mean, in particular, the efforts to obtain security clearance processes. I know that this was a big challenge for the IDPs who were trying to return home. And if you think that there's, especially with this new government, if there's the ability to really get traction on that effort. Well, you know, that's, it's a little too early for me to say, I mean, I'm just, you know, getting myself involved. I've been involved in Iraq issues for quite a long time, you know, but not at this level of detail. As I mentioned during my comments, the, one of my good friends happens to be one of the chief investigators for UNITAD. And he was explaining to me the other day why lawyers actually don't make good investigators. And, you know, and his comment was that, you know, we lawyers like to, we're always thinking about what kind of a case we can make. And he says, investigators just want to know what happened. And that's a really good distinction. It was one that kind of got me thinking, and that is precisely the problem that people face with respect to their security clearances. All we really need to know is, are they a risk or aren't they? You know, and at the end of the day, that's not rocket science. You know, the fact that you have a brother, you know, or a sister who is a miscreant is not your fault. You know, and now if you harbored them, that's a different problem. But at the end of the day, you know, it's just a pretty straightforward factual determination. Yeah, I think you aptly underscored the dilemma of addressing the accountability issues, the security issues, but also not seeding a new generation of Iraqis who lost hope and are attracted to extremist ideologies. I want to remind our viewers that if you have a question, you can go through the YouTube live stream comments section. And I also want to invite you to engage with us and each other on Twitter with hashtag Iraq minorities. We're starting to get questions in from the audience. I'm going to ask one more and then go to the chat questions. And what I wanted to ask you is you talked a lot about the the different ways of providing stabilization assistance. And there's the traditional kinds of assistance, which is the physical infrastructure, the rebuilding of schools and health clinics. But there's there's also the importance of many of the issues that you talked about, which is security and political problems. And DRL really works in the in that fulcrum space between, you know, balancing those two issues. And I wonder if you could say a little bit more about how how you see those those policy and stabilization issues balancing when you think about the U.S. assistance. Well, you know, let me, you know, I can't speak for the whole U.S. government, you know, all they can speak for is DRL, you know, and and our focus is invariably on on how we strengthen civil society. And the, you know, the the holding, you know, the question of how do you hold violent extremists, or how do you even hold just common criminals accountable? You know, one of one of my folks, I has been in conversations with people, especially in light of some of the troubles we've had here in the United States, is that that most basic human right is the right to go back to your home. You know, the right to be free of being shot on the street, you know, either, you know, by design or by accident. I mean, this is the this is one of the issues that the people are not focused on. And and that it's it's almost a it's almost how do you you how do you get across to people that the most basic human rights start with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You know, if if I don't feel safe, you know, the government has an obligation to to protect each one of us equally. And and and that's the consistent message that I'm going to be conveying throughout this process, and then trying to figure out, you know, how we can, we can use DRL's programming funds to to achieve ends like that. You know, but there's a lot of as you know, there's a lot of action on the ground, many agencies on the ground, and most of which we have absolutely no control over. Right. And insecurity remains a considerable concern, as you noted. I'm going to turn to questions from the audience. And there's one from Sarah Mancuso, who asked, has COVID-19 affected the fight to defeat ISIS by the US led coalition? And if so, how has this affected the return of IDPs? Well, I can't I don't know the exact the exact question. How has it impacted the fight to defeat ISIS? I assume that it has, you know, based on other conversations I've had with people in Iraq, Iraq has been pretty much locked down. For those of you who live there, you know, far better than I. And I think, you know, I'll refer that question to you. How has that affected the security situation in Iraq? The the return of IDPs I can't speak to. Again, you know, Mr. Warda and Ms. Araf would be far better equipped to answer that question than I would. Okay. Well, we'll try this one from Raj Zala, who asked Turkish Turkish air strikes in Sinjar, where a significant number of Yazidis live, has worried many that these areas are not safe for them to return. In your views, Assistant Secretary Destro, what can be done to spare these areas from further air strikes in order to facilitate the return of displaced Yazidi communities? Well, I know that the again, once again, the the question of how you deal with air strikes is a little bit outside of my my portfolio. But I can tell you that we're very much involved with with with our colleagues in Near Eastern Affairs, and with political and military affairs. And we make the same point, which is how can people possibly flourish if they're under threat, you know, of air strikes? And the only thing I think that can be done is engagement with the Turks and with other people who have been acting in ways that that are not conducive to the health of these communities. But that's not that's not my portfolio. And I can't really speak any more directly to it than that, unfortunately. Okay, I think this one speaks directly to your portfolio, which is a question from Ricardo Siva. Talking about promoting social cohesion, there's the tendency of the international community to focus on the Nineveh Plains primarily. What about Kerkuk and other places in Iraq? That's a really good question. And I thank you for it. As as President Lindborg, as you pointed out, Nancy, you know, I've been involved in in kind of an Abrahamic dialogue for many years. And and that dialogue is not limited to to the Nineveh Plain. And I think that, you know, Iraq has got, you know, there are people of good faith all over the country who are looking for, you know, not only moral support, you know, and physical support, but also for some strategic thinking. And I think it's one of because DRL is so actively involved in in supporting the civil society organizations, what we just need to do, whether we need to do it by Zoom, or whether we need to do it in person. I mean, my preference obviously is in person, if only for the coffee breaks that I mentioned during my remarks, the, you know, we need to bring people together. And it can be done. We've done it in Iraq. We actually did a meeting in Iraq in Beirut back in 2017. And because we thought it was easier to bring people out than it was to have the meetings inside. But it was remarkable. Everybody wants to work together. And I think that unless we engage as broadly as possible, we're not going to succeed in this effort. Terrific. I want to just close with one final question. And that is a question that I think a lot of our colleagues in in Iraq have on their minds. You outlined a very supportive, deep agenda, especially for their and I think everybody's aware this is an election year for the United States. And the question is in your view, what elements of support from the United States for minorities? Do you see continuing regardless of what happens in November? Well, I think the easiest answer is that the strategic framework agreement has been the foundation of American policy in Iraq over several generations from Bush 43, Obama, the Trump administration. I don't see that changing. And, you know, and we can't, this is not a, you know, the question of engagement. If we get that engagement process, you know, if we keep it going, then whoever takes over in my seat, whether I stay in it or somebody else takes it, that we got to keep the process going. Excellent. Well, that's a wonderful way to conclude this conversation. I thank you very much for joining us, Assistant Secretary Destro. I thank you for the conversation, for the commitment to this work. We obviously, collectively, need to continue working with our partners on the ground to affect minorities' ability to return and to thrive in their homes. We appreciate the continued partnership between USIP and DRL. And we invite you to come back and join us for another conversation. Well, thanks for having me. Delighted to have you. And with that, I'd like to turn it over to Lee Tucker from USIP, who will moderate a discussion and Q&A with our panelists and both really powerful representatives of civil society, which you talked about the importance of Assistant Secretary Destro. So over to you, Lee and Suzanne and William and Osama. Thank you so much, Nancy. And a huge thank you as well to Assistant Secretary Destro, as Nancy said, both for your comments and your steadfast commitment to supporting Iraqi minorities. So in the interest of time, before introducing the panelists, just a few process notes. We'll do a brief panel discussion. It will probably run for about 30 minutes and immediately afterwards go into an audience question and answer session. I'd like to remind you to please add your questions to the YouTube chat, as you've already been doing. Please feel free to add questions as the conversation advances, but also to wait until after the discussion has wrapped up. Also, as Nancy said, just a reminder to interact with us if you'd like to on Twitter with the hashtag Iraqi minorities and looking forward to a lively discussion welcoming our panelists' voices from the ground in Iraq. Mr. William Warda is a member of the General Assembly and External Relations Committee of the Alliance of Iraqi Minorities, which is an umbrella organization of non-profit groups that represent minority interests in Iraq. He's also the Director of Public Relations for the Hammurabi Human Rights Organization. He, along with his wife, Pascal Warda, were the inaugural recipients of the State Department's International Religious Freedom Award, and they have both been deeply involved in advocating for the rights of religious minorities, particularly Christians in Northern Iraq. Welcome, William, looking forward to hearing from you. Our second panelist, Ms. Suzanne Adolf, is the Founder and Director of the Women Empowerment Organization, which is one of Iraq's leading non-governmental organizations working to advance women's rights in political and social participation. Ms. Adolf is also the Coordinator of Iraq's Cross-Sector Task Force on UN Security Resolution 1325 on Women, Peace, and Security, and she has played a leading role in the development and implementation of Iraq's National Action Plan on Women, Peace, and Security, which is the first such national plan in the Middle East and North Africa. And finally, our very own Osama Gharezi is a Senior Program Advisor for Iraq. Osama served as USIP's Regional Program Manager, focused on Iraq and Syria from 2015 to 2018, and he has extensive hands-on experience designing, managing, and leading learning efforts around reconciliation and dialogue processes in Iraq and Syria in the post-ISIS period. Osama has also spearheaded the development of our Conflict and Stabilization Monitoring Framework for Nineveh Province, which, as we heard from Nancy and Assistant Secretary Destro, is tracking trends in the conflict environment. So welcome to all of the panelists, and we will jump right in with the first question. Iraq's minority communities, as we heard in opening remarks, have been heavily affected by ISIS, and the long recovery process has been quite complicated, most recently with the onset of COVID-19, as well as government changes as a result of the unprecedented protest movement and other developments since may be affecting these minority communities. So first of all, William, as a representative of the Alliance for Iraqi Minorities, and given your extensive experience advocating for Iraq, can you talk to us a little bit about the key needs of Iraq's minorities today? First of all, thank you very much to USIP to help this panel. This is very important. According to your question, minorities like any other people want to live in safety and stability without fear of the future. In order to know exactly what its needs are, it's necessary to know the challenges that facing, that minority facing. First of all, the challenges of coronavirus pandemic threatening daily life, noting that minority are living in poor or limited income environment and will be conductive to the spread of the pandemic. This is one, the second thing, the challenge represented by the flourishing science of ISIS. Some of the challenges represented by the flourishing science of ISIS, some in the areas of minority. As an example, what happened in the past few days of Kaka is seven to eight persons were killed and some injured. The other thing, other challenges that has arisen in the past few days due to the Turkish military intervention represented by air and air striking and map the ground in the Hawke and Erbil provinces. Christian and Yazidi towns become under the Turkish fire and people, they were displaced, especially in the area of the Hawke like Barwari Bala and Zafo and also in Sinjar area because of this event. The security challenge representing also in the ambiguity of the fate of the residents of the disputes area between the federal government and also the KRI. Also, provocation and convulsions occur between the residents of the minorities themselves, especially in Nineveh plain, but of the honesty it didn't reach the level of dangerous challenges. The general economic situation also is one of the challenges due to the complications caused by displacement and the loss of jobs, opportunity that exacerbated unemployment. Also, the challenge that still exists in the absence of legislation to put the end of the transaggression of the religious rise of minority represented by hate speech and the lack of accountability based on this failure to recognition some of religious minorities such as Bahá'ís and Zoroastrian and the others. Also, there's another issue of legislation, especially the issue of the Islamization of non-Muslim children of the father or mother changes, changes his religious and became Muslim. These challenges is very important and also there's many challenges maybe in between the lack of unification between minority themselves. There is some problems between minorities. This caused problem inside the areas that they are living, especially there was problem between Christian and Shabbat sometimes and now the situation is less. These issues are very important. If you would like to know what they need, they need the peace, the security, they need legislation, reform legislation and some law needs to be reformed and the other needs to be enacted in a new area. This is very short about the challenges and also there's a problem of those people they are facing problem of security they cannot return to their areas because of the security situation. The main issue is the security. Still there's no imposing the law or how the rule of the law is not in that way that minority can get rid of fear. Still there's a kind of fear inside the society and also in the last months there was again a rising of the ISIS activities in some areas. This is affected all these minorities and another issue is the government. There is no that a very serious pay attention from the government to the minority situation. They are neglected. There is another priority for the governments of Iraq while the minority issues is not that maybe that important topic for them. It seemed like that because that's why the minority they didn't see that there's a light in the end of the tunnel and they always think that there is no that pay attention to them and they are thinking to flee from the country and they are not returning to their homes. Thank you so much William. What you're describing is a combination both of immediate concerns as well as the need for long-term institutional changes which I know has been a goal of of your work and the alliance of Iraqi minorities for many many years now. It also sounds like one of the the biggest issues is security both as an immediate concern but also this issue of inclusive security. Basic safety as a human need is one of the very primary challenges for minorities today and on that topic I'd like to turn to you Suzanne to ask about this issue of inclusive security if you could talk to us a little bit about the gender angle especially related to the UN Security Council 1325 which is on women peace and security and how it relates to the challenges William just described to us in particular the needs of ethnic and religious minorities. Good morning to you and good afternoon to participant from Iraq. Thank you for this great opportunity I'm glad to take part in such important event. So if I'm talking about gender and what needs are specific to women so I can say that women will remain endlessly as a victim of war and conflicts and their victimization to be used as memories and records for a history especially women minorities and what they had faced through ISIS intervention. In fact this is the sad reality we are heading towards a major backward in term of women rights. It is obviously that the country political economic crisis affects hugely on women's situation and multiply their marginalization and in such crisis the first thing what the state actor is doing to ignore women agenda in their plan so it is not the time for women issue it's not the time to talk about women so it is time to talk about the crisis the higher level crisis such as economic political so this is how Iraqi women are passing very difficult situation in light of the fragility of the government system and it has become more difficult in light of corona pandemic the economic and political crisis and the politicization of women agenda even we can see the women agenda become politicized so even the women that we are pushing for women participation in decision-making women in as MPs women in the executive authority but unfortunately we can see that they are more implementing the agenda of their parties not the mandate of the position of their duties so this is a big problem that we are facing and this is why we are going backward minorities women in Iraq still dreaming about their rights but on another hand the decision makers and responsible institutions still don't realize what does mean justice for minorities or women minorities social marginalization violations of rights of people perceived to be ISIS affiliated sexual and gender-based violence sexual exploitation and abuse in camps and the inability of IDPs to obtain identity documentation significant barriers remain especially on the prevention and reporting side these are related to culture nations of shame and honor in relation of sgbv sexual gender-based violence incident response and victim safeguarding also we can see the issue of independence and stigmatization seriously affect the livelihood opportunity of large proportion of women women victims of ISIS conflict still looking for justice for accountability and reparation which are not reality yet so what are we looking what we are looking for to see when women survivors are able to receive justice then the question what justice does mean for women survivors and minorities so what we need in this stage i think to bring the perspective of minorities and women survivors onto the table to be able to change policies and laws in positive way in the way of benefit of victims and society that the same thing that my colleague mr william mentioned about the victims and the children born from rape so they are still there's no any attention for them there's no any new laws to respond and to consider them as to to have identity legal documentation so definitely we will not be able to achieve peace and security with the marginalization of minorities and women victims so no peace with no rights so this is how if we want to achieve peace and security agenda so first we have to to focus on the rights and consider all the needs and that to to listen to the perspective of of women minorities what is the priority what do they need and how to be solved not everything it is that this is red line and not to talk like for example when we are talking about all the women's that like they like to be perceived by ices affiliated as also my colleague mentioned because like someone brother or husband so they perceive to be ices so how we we can like have accountability have a justice for them how to engage them in the society again so reconciliation it is very important so this is the the main point we are we cannot say only because we have a national action plan for the UN Security Council resolution it means we are responding to to to women needs and we are achieving the peace and security no we are unfortunately we are heading backward in the term of women rights and peace and security Suzanne thank you so much the picture you paint is quite bleak but in a few moments we can come back to talk about some potential actions and what can be done by the Iraqi government as well as the international community before that though let me turn to my colleague Osama to ask if you can enlighten us about any top priorities for the minority communities that stand out from the data we have collected through the conflict and stabilization monitoring framework great yeah thank you Lee and good morning and good afternoon everyone um yeah quickly a lot of what i'll be covering William and Suzanne already touched upon but i'll perhaps just focus on three things that the data is telling us from conflict and stabilization monitoring framework as it pertains to the needs of communities minority communities in particular one there's a general grievance around governance and this isn't should this should not come as a surprise this tends to be ubiquitous demand or grievance in Iraq in general regardless of what community you're from but what's interesting from the data is that this this grievance is having a particular impact on certain minority communities particularly the the Christian community in Hamdani and the Yazidi community from Sinjar and that it is engendering the rise of more salient um procal identities or the the rise of sectarian identity um so more in-group identities is occurring because the lack of governance effective governance um and so it's causing these communities to look inward and to demand representation and local or governing bodies in general um that are they want governing bodies in general that have a composition um of their communities they feel that more representation will equal better uh better governance outcomes now of course that there's that that needs to be looked at a bit more um obviously um there's more challenges to to governance in Iraq than representation there's there's a need for more effective decentralization processes etc um the other thing I'll talk about quickly is security this is mentioned as well but what's interesting from the data is that physical local physical security seems to be increasing over the course of 18 months uh communities feel safer um in Hamdani both Christian and Shabbax demonstrated a sharp increase in the comfort levels related to moving around in the areas um in Sinjar Yazidi residents showed significant increase in the perception of a safe environment as well and then the majority of communities looked at um in the conflict stabilization monitoring framework both um um religious minorities but also Sunni Arab communities etc um they expressed that they can they can express their identity without fear of violence against them from security actors uh so this was consistent across the three rounds of data collection with one community being the exception I mean then the last one uh Suzanne touched upon it uh quickly in her closer remarks is there's a need for reconciliation so across the board communities believe that reconciliation is needed but um some communities particularly the Christian community in Hamdani and the Yazidi community in Sinjar do not feel it is possible and they cite various challenges to the reconciliation process moving forward some of it relates to perceived power imbalances in those communities some of it relates to political will they don't feel there's adequate political will from from government formal government actors are from political leaders from the other side um and so these this is something as well as tight government performance if we unpack some of the issues within reconciliation obviously there's things like compensation operations um criminal accountability etc these processes haven't been proceeding to the extent that these communities would like to see and in particular what's coming out from the Yazidi community in Sinjar is they want um based on the data they're looking for some type of formal transitional justice process to occur for them to achieve reconciliation with Sunni community in the district thank you so much Osama um I want to zoom in on this issue of security a little bit because um we've heard from Suzanne and William that this is one of the major um issues and concerns of minorities um and yet um you say that the the data we've collected indicates that um security locally has actually improved is this a contradiction or can you tell us a little bit more about um about the balance there that's a great point um so yeah there's a little side to this so while communities feel safer in their areas there's still um a high degree of concern around security um so not necessarily uh security actors themselves um but uh there's a concern um on the local security arrangements so there's again there's a general desire not just amongst minority communities but communities are at large to have more say in uh security arrangements they wouldn't be included in the arrangements in the communities so there's some mistrust towards security actors that don't necessarily reflect the the composition of those communities um if we take it to Sinjar and this was uh came up in the remarks earlier the Turkish air strikes in Sinjar um there the concern is there the concern there is more of insecurity related to Turkish incursions and air strikes and less less over security actors etc um so there's still security concerns uh but that those concerns are are less to do with a feeling of insecurity in those communities related to security actors or perhaps the rise of ISIS etc there's a there's a general there's a feeling uh these communities feel safer in areas but those concerns still persist and they relate to the all these other things I mentioned thank you Osama um I also want to give Suzanne and William the the opportunity to react on this the security issue but also perhaps open the conversation as well um to your views perhaps William if we can go to you first um about um these issues both of security but then also the political and governance issues um we heard from Assistant Secretary Destro um and um we know in our own work that um there has been substantial assistance um going into the minority communities and yet it also seems that uh a a big piece of feedback from the minority communities themselves is that so far this assistance has not necessarily represented in better security and political representation um so William if if you could tell us a little bit about um what minorities experiences have been with these efforts so far um and perhaps also at this point what is needed in addition from the Iraqi government as well as from the international community to address these larger political and security needs it's a very important question the most important measure should be taken by the government is to secure a safe situation and enforce the law to achieve a peace and as this is the basis for any services measures to be done by the government when security prevails this will be a polarizing force for all minorities in the displacement camps as well as refugees outside Iran besides the security services should be from the resident of the minority themselves and that the forces holding security in that area in the area of the minority should or must be accepted and trusted by the minority the forces that the security body should be accepted by those people addressing the economic stagnation that regions suffer from and this is this in itself was a reason for the tendency to immigrate abroad before exposing violation to the population by the ISIS or by the terrorist group another thing the bad infrastructures you know the shortage of services in the fields of public health and education forcing minorities to go to the city center such as Mosul and Duhok and Erbil so this is this is also a challenge for returning the other things is the international community can help the Iraqi government to implement economic and service programs within the framework of sustainable human development in providing advice and as well as providing aid through financial grants to monitor these areas and attention to the road and also transportation put attention to the road and transportation network the constructions of the international community in helping to provide cultural and heritage projects for the renewal and maintenance of identity for example templates shrines and the ministries as part of the human heritage knowing that this heritage is subject to genocide and absenteeism and UNESCO can do the required revival as well as the construction of training and the recital centers to attract young people with the priority priorities to training workshop for girls and mothers in developing skills providing international advice to Iraqi government and for KRG and the federal government to improve performance in the areas of human rights of which the maintenance of religious freedom and the firm and reform of relevant laws in the forefront this is very important things needed to be done by the the international also also it needed from the especially United States and other organization to support the government to impose the role of law of law and also to to support security in the area especially to let the people from the the young people from the area to engage in the security forces like police and the other security entities this is very important also I think I think what is needed now urgent is to encourage people to return and to build trust if we cannot build the trust the people they will not return especially Christian and Yazidis as still the areas of Yazidis is under conflict between different groups especially Sinjar and also Nineveh plan the people they feel this is insecure because still there are some forces in that area was not accepted from all the minority groups those those entities security entities which is which is from they belong to the parties or some some groups or they are militia or something like that this is this is very important to secure the area and otherwise people still they they feel fear and they they think that the question was raised always when when we ask people why you are not your chair and they always say who will who will grant us those atrocities that happen who will grant that will not repeat again so this still there is a kind of such fear from the society from the people especially there is for example 500 families from Bartola's still they are living in Erbil and thousands of families from Nineveh Plains whether they are Christian and Yazidis still they are in Erbil and hope they are not returned to their area because they they are scared from the future this is very important if this is very urgent if we can do something for the security of the areas for example for Sinjar or Nineveh Plains is is more stable comparing with Sinjar but Sinjar is still there is you know there is more than 300 000 Yazidis still they are living in the camps in the hope these these last two weeks there was a kind of movement of returning and this is a kind of hope because people they they are boring in these camps for six years and no one is paying attention to their suffering this is just those international organization and some very little from the local governments and but in general they need more help and support to return thank you William thank you so much there is a lot packed into your answer I heard a couple of things including the fact that it's still very important for both the Iraqi government and international community to continue making symbolic gestures such as the rebuilding of of important cultural sites also not to allow reconstruction efforts to fall by the wayside but also that it's imperative to address these security needs and you suggested several options such as including young people from the area in local security forces would love to have a separate conversation on this one day but the biggest thing that stood out to me is talking about this connection between justice and fear and the biggest factor that's important when we're talking about minority community safety and returning is for them to be able to trust that these atrocities won't happen again and this really gets at the heart of what we at USIP talk about when we're talking about reconciliation for USIP reconciliation is a long-term process through which communities that have been in conflict where violence is involved can once again learn to live side by side may not be completely peaceful but at least it will be without violence so this this issue of rebuilding the trust between the communities is is very important and Suzanne I want to turn to you and then to Osama if you could give us your perspectives especially on this issue of the rebuilding of trust between the communities and again what can be done what is most needed immediately on the part of the government actors and Suzanne perhaps from you you know we have the the Kurdistan regional government as well as the federal government of Iraq and then also what is the international community's role thank you Lee of course there's a big like big demand for the support of the international community and also the both government responsibility so as a priorities that I'm taking the first in with both governments the KRG and government of Iraq must ensure budget allocation for all the strategies and plan that we have for women because what it's happening only developing plans and plans without any implementation so this is the first how to to have a budget on developing plan strategies and the implementation and monitoring requirements for the second nap and for also the other follow resolution for combating sexual violence in conflict because this is the focus area for women that affected in the conflict the victims that looking for accountability and justice and ending impunity lobbying to include the main two pillars of recovery and legislation into the second national action plan for the UN Security Council resolution 1325 according to the outcome of national civil society conference in February 2020 because we can see it is very I can say cosmetic plan that not putting any kind of commitment on government so this is what women need it is the main priority issue it is recovery it's economic empowerment livelihood for women and they executed this pillar in the second nap also about legislation because this is what everyone looks about legislation and to revise all the discriminative laws and how to have the access to justice so this is also what we are doing lobbying but this is we cannot do it by ourselves we need the support from the international community and the endorsement of combating the domestic violence law and the second nap for the UN Security Council resolution this is more than six months the draft law the draft plan of second nap it is in the ministry's council with no endorsement and we don't know what's happening what kind of change they are doing and again for the combating domestic violence law it is more than four years it is in parliament and the problem but this is why I mentioned the politicization of women issue because half of women MPs they are against that law so how we as a woman activist be glad that we have such a big number of women in parliament and they are against the right of women so this is how the political parties playing even with the quota system to be used for their interest not for women interest we need an international and national will to institutionalize women human rights because what we can see with changing the government the cabinet of government so we have to return back to zero step because again we need how to create a political will with the new people in the government and how to to make them to understand what we are saying and what is this national action plan what is the combating the domestic violence law so if we need to channelize so we don't need every time to return back to to create like again all the to like again to do all the process from zero so then go ahead okay the KRG and government of Iraq must acknowledge and promote the voice of women's experience during war and displacement via the promotion of stereo telling and gender education initiative and through the media and social media campaigns also the government must open more shelters with protection pss caseworks legal and integrated livelihood service provision this need to follow gender streamlined also the monitoring framework for sexual gender based violence cases should include analytical tool and collaboration across hospital police forces legal and NGOs who can identify sign of honor based crimes and fill the gaps in reporting on the issue the women shelters should be equipped it and developed the capacity to bring gender and honor based violence to justice through victim centered legal aid and transitional justice initiative and provision of service effective national mechanism that work on women issue we still there's a big lack of a national mechanism that works on women issue so this is a big problem and this is very like normal to see why we are going backward support and strengthen the rule of women's organization to continue their role in advocacy and monitoring and also for the international community it needs more coordination and cooperation among the actors on the ground to how to to like unify the efforts and not everyone works separately individually in different circles so I hope that I didn't take much time like no thank you there were a lot of really good suggestions in there so hopefully our colleagues from DRL are taking good notes I we are starting to get some questions from the audience I have one additional question for the panel and then we'll open it up for the audience Q&A but please go ahead and start typing your questions into the YouTube chat and our team will curate them Osama I promise I will get to you but two of the questions we have received from the audience do relate directly to what Suzanne and William have just spoken about so I want to follow up with these right now and then I'll come back to you so first of all Suzanne you mentioned that the quota system is actually causing problems especially in the the issue of getting support in the parliament for important reform efforts related to domestic violence this is related to a question we've received from the audience which is to all of the panelists what is your opinion on the quota system for allocation of seats in the council of representatives and provincial councils is it helping religious and ethnic minorities or not Suzanne it sounds like you already have seen that a negative effect in some ways so William I want to turn to you and ask what is your opinion on the quota system and do you or the the minorities with whom you work do they see it as helpful or not helpful you know the quota system is good if we because it was it was taken as an positive discrimination and this is very important for the for the minority but the problem what happened the other the majority they are trying to to take these seats in different ways this is one this is one point and other point is now the these quota sometimes making problem between the minority themselves for example now when the prime minister choose a minister from the christian as the minister of migration and displacement the other minority they were not they were unhappy of that because for example they need this position for Yazidis and other for Shebek and that is this is kind of competing between the minority and they're doing some problem that the main things is this I consider these seats for example there's five seats for the christian I don't consider them now is there for the real christian those who win these seats they are pro other majority groups so they are not working majority of them they are not working for the minority but they are working for their parties they are some of them they are procured and they are procured and pro other this is one of the problem that facing the minorities I think I think it needs minority to organize themselves not just running for these for these seats for the quota they should join other groups Iraqi groups to one other seats for example not just those seats allocated for minorities so it means for example to in the next election to run with other group other Iraqi groups not minority these seats is it's granted for the minorities so minority should should use this benefit to run with the others this is even if the five person they went to the to the boxes or to the pulling boxes these seats is granted for minority we should as a minority they should run for or they compete with the majority to win more than five seats for example for the christian and there's no justice for example Yazidis their population is about half million in Nineveh just they have one seat in Nineveh in Nineveh governor governor so this is also this is not logic for example now there's five seats for the christian and one seat for the Yazidis while now the Yazidis they are their population is equal the christian in era why the christian they are five and the Yazidi they are this is also this is an issue should be discussed thank you so much william so apparently we have quite a few questions rolling in from the audience just a request to our panelists so that we can try to cover as many audience questions as possible if we can try to keep responses short we've got about 20 minutes left to go so going back to the other question which is related to the conversation already one of the audience questions is talking about the issue of justice and accountability post isis the question is do minorities trust the Iraqi judiciary system to investigate and persecute the allegations of genocide or would they rather refer these crimes to the international criminal court and if i might just open that up a little bit more other potential justice mechanisms especially assuming that even if the Iraqi judicial system were to start running through these cases tomorrow at a faster pace it would still take quite a bit of time to deal with the backlog so again do minorities trust the Iraqi system or would they prefer to see external mechanisms to address this issue of justice perhaps first to you susan and then and then to william yeah thank you um yeah and coming back to this question i think there is a lack of trust in the iraq government and politicians and the institution like a justice institution like citizen including women minorities no longer trust the iraqi governments and their promises despite the passage of several years since the liberation of this area but they have not fulfilled their promises related to reconstruction improvement or access to justice reparation for them so this is this is how and even like when i know that already they established something like for investigation and documentation for all the cases like victims of ISIS but we cannot see any improvement in this so this is and there's no transparency so this is how people don't trust because they heard a lot about promises but they didn't see anything on that so this is why there's no trust but also there's no external mechanism for everyone it may be only for special cases they can have external court but for normal people and normal cases normal victims it is very difficult to have external courts so thank you susan um william from your perspective what would the minority communities prefer to see in terms of formal justice and accountability uh i agree with susan uh the the uh the minority especially the woman that i interviewed there they were victims of isis uh when i interviewed them i asked them whether they would like to those those atrocities that's committed by by isis you would like those accountability to be under the under the uh court of iraqi court or international always they prefer international courts two days ago i was with them i was talking with a woman they were uh she was she was uh captivated and uh and they rape it uh i asked her you know now we are starting with happy dad uh and uh and uh if if if she would like to uh come to the court or provide evidence she said if it is international court i will come and if it's iraqi no because they didn't trust uh there's lack of trust as susan said of of the iraqi judiciary system uh this is not coming from nothing but because because there was uh no no fair happened and because some there some women they were uh uh affected by daesh and they saw their their uh those people they they persecuted them out and they faced uh they met them free in other uh it happened in germany and it happened in uh in irbil uh the victim said to us we saw that person who persecuted us who was who who raped us he is free so how we can trust the iraqi security system or the judiciary system this is one of the challenges really indeed this is one of the point that i spoke with the uh with the officers of happy dad that they those investigator that would like to meet to asking us to help them to or to guide them for the victims of isis thank you william um it sounds like there's a lot of work to be done on these issues osama apologies i've left you waiting too long um i want to give you a chance to to speak on these two issues both trust in the justice system um and um the issue of um uh what is needed from the international community as well as the iraqi government um if you could talk to us from the perspective of the data that we've collected but then also from your own perspective working um on our projects and dialogue work um with the the minority communities in ninoa yeah no great thanks um so on this on this issue of trust i think uh when it pertains to minority communities and again communities out large and the government um just thinking about some of the the main findings that we've been able to extract from the data from the public stabilization monitoring framework um let's look at what is causing some of this mistrust towards the government uh one i mentioned earlier in my remarks and it's been mentioned already by my my fellow panelists this issue of government performance is is is uh is at the core of it so there's a general negative view from all the communities looked at in the conflict stabilization monitoring framework uh towards the responsiveness of government actors and institutions um communities don't feel that these actors or institutions are responsive to their needs um and then um i think a larger issue and i think uh will you mention this uh earlier is that many minority communities feel that the state has ignored their suffering and that it has actually acknowledged uh the interests of those communities and the needs of those particular communities um and then across all the locations that we looked at the vast majority of respondents from um that's not really just minority communities feel the state either acknowledges their hardship um impacting their community only a little or not at all so there's a sense that the state um hasn't been responsive in terms of material needs but also hasn't actually looked at um or acknowledged uh the suffering and the victimization um uh another form and marginalization of these communities so that ties in somewhat to the justice transitional justice aspect of uh we're coming again communities are looking for a subtype of general acknowledgments along with other types of uh of processes that can that can get at some of their their core grievances um on the issue of international support uh looking at the data um the across the three rounds of data that we collected minority communities feel that having international support is the um the most important way for them to attain their political rights now what's interesting here is that this has been decreasing among the christian communities christian community and the izidi community and increasing among the shaba community um we don't really have any solid data to point out the factor is contributing to these shifts uh but we can we can uh kind of see if we look at um if we think about what was happening uh early on post isis there was this general view that uh by minority communities that need international protection that the international community was the one actor that can help safeguard um both the security but also guarantee the needs of those communities and then over time as i think expectations came to match what actually can be done by the international community um that has impacted some of the the the trends amongst the christian and izidi communities on the flip side the shaba community has actually seen uh the opposite they kind of they're acknowledging more the impact of international support um and helping communities attain their their their political rights um and then uh the second question me what was it the year on mute thanks so samer um we have the the question about the quota system as well um yeah i mean look i think i'm gonna defer to my fellow paladists who who have more better insight into the quota system and how it impacts uh communities um but if we're looking at the data again i think the data speaking to um uh a gap in representation and so there's there's a view that political processes across the border exclusionary in some fashion um and there's a desire to make those processes more inclusive now now how do you make them more inclusive i think is is the the question and if some perceive inclusivity as being zero sum in nature um is that if you give more more communities rights you're going to take away rights from others etc um so i think uh this is part of the problem in how to um how do you how do you create systems that actually give both representation but but accountability and effective governance and what i think my fellow panelists had mentioned is that the quota system is is essentially getting out while those members might be from the communities they're not actually from political parties are movements that represent those communities and i think this again speaks to some of the data that we saw where um there's a there's a desire by ethno-religious groups primarily christians and hamdini and usd and sinjar for more direct participation and representation and governing bodies be they local council district councils provincial councils etc um so this gets gets to some of this um and then if we look at outside the data set just look at some of the things that these communities have tried to do to um to step away or above the the political competition afraid by these larger actors if we look at sinjar for example um you know the shadow over sinjar is the the disputed territories file um there was a there was a movement that that uh that issue combined with the um the the consequences of the rise of ISIS etc the changing dynamic in sinjar and you know what in general um it's created a lot of fragmentation within the uzd community more political cleavages etc um and these cleavages just tend to be tied to larger political patrons that again don't necessarily reflect the needs of those communities but are tied to to other uh other things um but there was a there was an attempt to unify the uzd political leadership within the district um i would say a year ago now to to try to create um a way forward outside the influences of bags that are revealed and that while that uh there was some moment initial momentum towards finding that kind of third way um dynamics being what they are uh kind of undermined that whole process um so i do think there's an element there if you look at uh again what my fellow panelists have been saying is that uh this quota system doesn't seem to be matching the the direct needs even though they're being represented in this process in the larger political system thank you so much Osama um being conscious of the time we've only got a few minutes left um i have a couple of questions from the audience um i'm going to throw two out to the panel as i think that they're related um one is from george nelson who asks is there any plausible mechanism to forge a national identity in iraq that will bridge the religious and social cleavages in the country the second question uh from renaz hassan is um with multiple security actors on the ground which is another constraint um for returning and trust of the authorities is there any hope for iraq and the new government of musaf al qadami to establish a united legitimate and trusted security force um and related to this what influence and role could the international community have especially considering um the us iran proxy competition in iraq uh so again just to to summarize the first question is um is there any plausible way to forge a national identity in iraq um and then the second question is is there any hope for the new government to establish united and legitimate security forces um especially given the the proxy competition um so i will start with william um first so i think uh there is chance there is chance to to establish and national identity if we will if we will talk as any if we'll uh consider all the groups component of iraqis they are just iraqi we have not to speak about what arab called sunni she and others so if we couldn't do that we have to recognize the right of minority otherwise we cannot do that for example of the courts the courts they are asking for their right as a court so what will prevent turkoman to ask for their rights as turkoman or the assyrian or caldian or the others so this is it needs to the strategy and the constitution we should in this case if we would like to build a unified identity as an iraqi it needs to uh to change to make changes or to amend the constitution and to uh to cancel all these uh articles that speak about components of iraqis equality of components and all these things so the the problem is uh is in the constitution so if we would like to resolve this problem we have to make a big change in the in our constitution otherwise uh you know why otherwise the the arab they are asking about their rights the court about their rights why why the minority they can uh not ask about their rights for example if there is a kind of uh of uh discrimination or against christian yazidis sabi and mendais and bahais there's no recognition about in the constitution of bahais so they are facing problem because there is no kind there's there's no such recognition on zoroastrian all these so if there is if they consider iraq is a multinational and uh and the ethnically group and religious there's a diversity of different group they didn't mention court arab and we can do that no one will ask for example the assyrian or the calvian or the uh turkman he will not ask he will he will uh he will ask for the rise as an iraqi not as an a component this is one of the problem the problem is in the constitution we have to amend the constitution in this case uh thank you william you are pointing to a foundational issue at the same time the the prospect of amending the iraqi constitution also seems like it would be a very large challenge especially given the political dynamics um in recent months and that we have discussed here um susan what do you think about this prospect of uh changing the very foundational um you know legal documents um as well as the prospect of forming a national identity but also legitimate um and trusted security institutions um thank you i will answer shortly i'm i'm saying uh nothing is impossible but the important thing to have the will and the faith to have a unified and a strong country that all they have to share the common vision to have a strong iraq it is not to work in the interest of each group or each minorities they have to divide the provinces according to minorities or ethnic group no to work for the country itself to build it as a country so only in this case we can achieve that otherwise it is difficult it is very complicated situation uh and for the new uh prime minister for now we cannot predict anything because we can see a good steps but again we cannot trust it we have to see more and to achieve something tangible then we can build our expectation thank you susan um for these inspiring words last but not least um over to you osama um you are one of our usip's um key persons helping us navigate the variety of actors institutions um government bodies um that are working around these issues what are some of the primary um aspects that are positive and hopeful about um these two issues the national identity and legitimate security um that's inclusive of all communities yeah no uh thanks um so again i'll first start off by bringing it to the data uh that we have and i think a positive sign um in the conflict stabilization monitoring framework findings is that even though there's been some would have been increased in uh pro-cruel identities uh sectarian identity amongst certain communities um there's still these communities all communities that we looked at still have an attachment to iraq still um have an attachment to their communities and they they have a sense of belonging to their communities into the state i mean again there's a degree there there's a variety of of attachment but for the most part all of them have some type of um belief in in this council of iraq the challenge and it's been alluded to already is um how do you build how do you create a a unified national identity that's uh civic in nature inclusive in nature i mean that's that's the problem and unfortunately when um uh when the regime fell in 2003 so too did the the iraqi nationalism that was constructed had been constructed under uh since independence that was very much mired and and more secular notions and ancient civilizations glorifying the past but also had a had a sunni arab underpinning and so when when 2003 happened the void was once that kind of nationalism fell the void was being filled by um ethnic and religious uh political parties or representation and so you haven't had a chance to i think now coming off the coming off the back end of the the conflict with isis we've seen a downturn in religiosity in many ways um we've seen ethnic identity become more inclusive in many ways um and so uh this this is i think positive trends that are happening that would allow there to be some type of a more unified or inclusive national identity and i do think getting to one's point that you need to create institutions that can incentivize this in society so if you do reform the constitution if you create more if you create an electoral system etc that are that are more inclusive more inclusive and perhaps not as slowly attached to ethnic religious um ethnic religious identity um that itself could could help incentivize the the creation of a more inclusive national national national identity on the question on security actors i do think again uh there may perhaps there's a the time is ripe for um the the start of some type of security sector reform issue i do think there there are a number of uh positives and negative things happening around the security issue in iraq and i think there's a general acknowledgement that the the security framework needs to be more inclusive of communities and i do think there's then the main issue is that there's a disagreement on how to do that we've seen this in some of our dialogue processes that we're looking at the process for example in one location in particular um there's a there's an acknowledgement that the local security mechanism needs to be inclusive of both communities but there's disagreement on how to create that inclusive mechanism and so i think this is where the challenge is is how to create solutions that are um amicable and agreed upon by by all thank you so much basama um and to all the panelists uh we are out of time i also want to thank um our audience um for your um complex questions and apologize to those um whose questions we couldn't answer because we're out of time i do want to direct everyone in the audience to um check out the usip website where the data and findings from the conflict and stabilization monitoring framework um are posted and there is also um an email address um where we are happy to receive feedback on the data and the findings which will both help us analyze the data we've already collected but then also shape future rounds of data collection after which we hope to potentially do another event like this checking in on the status of iraq's minority communities i hope that this conversation has been helpful both for those of you in the policy audience as well as practitioners um so with that thank you all so very much and um we wish you safety and health going forward thank you all