 My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Today my guest is Deidre Teagarden, the executive director of the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center in Kahaluwimaui. The title of our program is Go For Broke, and our focus is on the legacy of the Nisei Veterans who faced prejudicial laws and went across the sea from internment in camps in their own home country, the United States, to hard fought vindication and victory in battle in far off Europe during World War II. The Nisei Veterans Memorial Center's mission is to preserve and promote that legacy. And perhaps we can learn how to face current events and live life now from this legacy. Welcome Deidre, how are you? I am fine, thank you, thank you so much for having me on the show, it is really quite an honor and I look forward to our chat this morning. Okay, well our focus today is on the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center, but I want to learn a little bit about you first, okay? All right. All right, now tell me, where did you grow up? What's your professional background, give me a little bit of that information. All right, well I was born in Pennsylvania and after the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, my mother, who is a writer, we moved to, we sold the house and we moved to Hiroshima, we moved to Japan, we started in a little town called on the island of Shikoku called Imabari, it was right on the Inland Sea and from there she would travel over to Hiroshima to do research on the A-bomb survivors, the Hibakusha of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We spent many years in Japan and then from there we spent some time in Hawaii, I went to McKinley High School for my sophomore year and then we moved to mainland China in a province called Shanxi in a town called Taiyuan which was closer to Inner Mongolia than it was to Beijing and that was also in the mid-80s, a really interesting time to be over there. Moved back to the states, went to college, worked for Mitsubishi Research in Washington, D.C. for a handful of years before going back to Japan and helping my mother with the business that she ended up starting in Hiroshima and from there came back to Hawaii and has been here for about 20 years and prior to taking the position at the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center, I was the chief of protocol for the state of Hawaii under Governor Neil Abercrombie and for a short time Governor Ige. Wow, that's quite, you traveled across the sea a lot, you were quite busy. I did, thanks to my mother. And you speak Japanese, I know, and that you picked up when you lived in Japan, I assume. Yes, we went to Japanese public schools, so it was a wonderful experience. Both my brother and I, he was seven years younger than I am, so I was in junior high school and he was in kindergarten and elementary school, but we had a fantastic experience over there. Oh, so much of what we have done so far in our lives to Japan and my mother and China, just a lovely life so far. Okay, and your position now with the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center, what's that? How did you get into that? Well, the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center is just a wonderful organization over here. It was the brainchild of Leonard Oka, Hiroshi Arozumi, Mr. Arozumi was in the four, was a Nisei Veteran, Leonard Oka's father had served in the 442. And since 1980, they really conceptualized our center and it became a reality about 10 years ago. So it's wonderful, it's amazing to be here. I have the honor of knowing a lot of people who were the conceptualizers of the center and when they were looking for an executive director and we had a conversation, I knew it was something I would love to do. It's a pleasure to to share the history and the legacy and the stories and sacrifices of the Nisei Veterans and their families as well as figuring out how we can take that legacy and move forward. And I guess it helps that you had this growing up period in your life in Japan in a way that that that gave you some insight into the Japanese culture, which in a way also plays into the Nisei Veterans. Is that a correct statement? It's 100% correct. I mean, all of the things that we, all of the values that we learned living in Japan and going to school, you know, the values of hard work and respect, whether or not you agree with the person across from you, you respect their, you respect them as human beings, loyalty, come on, you know, every day in elementary school or in junior high school, we would have to stand out in the the center of the school, reign or shine, know or sleep and, you know, send the national anthem, listen to the morning, the morning messages from our teachers and, you know, you couldn't complain that it was raining and you were getting wet. You just had to have gum on, you know, and that was the, the whole idea of gum on and endurance is such a foundation of the, the Nisei and the Issei, you know, the first generation individuals who, who came, came to Hawaii and, you know, really shaped what our state is today. So yes, I think that, that definitely was a benefit my, my uncle, my great-uncle also served with MacArthur during the war. So I'd heard that side of the story as well growing up. So let's, so you kind of had a good education in all of this background, but let's now return to the focus. What is the Nisei Memorial, the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center? What is it? And who were the Nisei, Nisei veterans? Give us an education in that. Well, our center is, it's really threefold. Downstairs in our education center, we have exhibits. Right now we have an exhibit on the story of the 442nd because 2018 is the 75th anniversary of the formation of the 442. But next to our education center in the back room is a very extensive archival collection of which you are very familiar, Mark, since you have a family who is back there as well. We have a collection of over 200 special collections of Maui's Nisei veterans, whether it's letters that were written, memorabilia, artifacts, photographs. And what we try to do is make sure that we bring those items out of the archives and into our center when we do have our exhibits to let the families know that these items that they have so graciously entrusted us with are seen by the greater public, the greater community. So we always have about three exhibits a year and every day something is coming through our doors for the archival collection. Upstairs we have an adult daycare center and a preschool, which is very interesting as well. So who is, you know, defined for me, who is a Nisei veteran? Who is that? So these are the men who served in World War II. And as you were saying earlier, many of their families were put into internment camps here and on the mainland. Of course, the Hawaii story is a little bit different than the California and the West Coast story as it relates to internment. And I know we'll get to that a little bit later. But these are the young men who, after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the government came and said, you know, you look like the alien, therefore, you cannot be, you know, you cannot be trusted, basically. That sounds familiar, by the way, but we'll get into that a little bit later. It does. It does. And, you know, we must not make those same mistakes that we have in the past. Okay, excuse me for interrupting you. Please go on. Yeah. No, no, we have to make sure we, we don't make those same mistakes that we made in the past. But the 100th Battalion was the first group of men who were formed. And, you know, they're the ones called the Purple Heart Battalion. These are the men who fought in Italy and suffered so many casualties. But it was because of their bravery and sacrifice that the American government said, wow, you know, these Japanese Americans, they're, they're really something. You know, go get, go get me all your, me say that, you know, all your AJA's. And that's when the 442 was formed. And many of the men who were in the 442, there's a lot of their parents who were in the internment camps. So while, yeah. And so they proved themselves. And then there was a recruitment by, by the United States. Well, I guess we shouldn't have put them in internment camps. We should use them as soldiers. Right. But we were going to still keep their parents in the internment camps. So they're still going to stay in the internment camps. We'll just take this to the sun. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So the, the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center, its, its mission is to preserve the legacy. What is the legacy of, of the Nisei veterans? What, what, what do, what is the, what does yours, what does your center tell us is the legacy of, of those veterans? It's, it's, it's basically, it's so much, you know, their legacy is one that we can still see to this day. I mean, these men and their families who were cast aside by the government as, as, you know, aliens and enemy of the state, they instead, instead of just sitting back and saying, well, we're not going to, you know, do anything to, to help, they went out there, they didn't want to shame their families. So they went and they fought, they gave it their all. They put aside all of the negatives that were being said about them and went and fought and became the most decorated unit of its size ever in the, in the U.S. in the military. And then they came back. And I think that is also what their, their legacy is, you know, the men of the 100th battalion, when they came back in Honolulu, they had a meeting and they chose as their motto, continuing service. And on each island, that manifested itself in different ways. For us, it eventually manifested itself as our, our center with the daycare, but the adult daycare and the preschool. And their legacy is taking something that is tragic and ununmentionable sadness and turning it into something for, something good for the next generation. And, you know, when we do have the privilege of talking to some of the men who are still with us, they all say the same thing that, you know, they, they did what they had to do. They did it for their country and for their families. And now they want to make sure that what they did when they came back is something positive for that, for that next generation. So our mission above of what you said, we've morphed it a little bit to say that we, we try to inspire people to find the hero within themselves based on the legacy of the Nisei veterans. So what can we do as everyday human beings to make sure that we're making this place better than how we found it? And, you know, and I'd like to talk a little bit more about that. We're going to take a break right now and I'd also like to go through some of the history of what happened to the Japanese when World War II broke out in the United States and show some images of, of, from beginning to end. But let's take a break now. We'll come back and talk about those things. Hello. My name is Stephanie Mock and I'm one of three hosts of Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Food and Farmer series. Our other hosts are Matt Johnson and Pamai Weigert. And we talk to those who are in the fields and behind the scenes of our local food system. We talk to farmers, chefs, restaurateurs and more to learn more about what goes into sustainable agriculture here in Hawaii. We are on a Thursdays at 4 p.m. and we hope we'll see you next time. Hey, Stan Energyman here on Think Tech Hawaii and they won't let me do political commentary so I'm stuck doing energy stuff but I really like energy stuff so I'm going to keep on doing it. So join me every Friday on Stan Energyman at lunchtime, at noon on my lunch hour. We're going to talk about everything energy especially if it begins with the word hydrogen. We're going to definitely be talking about it. We'll talk about how we can make Hawaii cleaner, how we can make the world a better place, just basically save the planet. Even Miss America can't even talk about stuff like that anymore. We got it nailed down here so we'll see you on Friday at noon with Stan Energyman. Aloha. Aloha, we are back with Deidre Tigardin, the executive director of the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center in Kahalu'i Maui. Deidre, when we left we were talking about the fact that the center doesn't just dwell on the past, it doesn't just, it's not just a memorial, it also talks about the future and making things better based upon what happened in the past. I mean, we learn from the past and in that light, learning from the past, I want to go through a few images with you that I know you're familiar with because they are images that represent a lot of things that happen and that you show at the center. The first image is instructions to all persons of Japanese ancestry. Tell us what is this about? So this was based on executive order 9066, which was President Roosevelt's executive order stating that all individuals of Italian Americans and German Americans and Japanese Americans making them be able to be sent into internment camps. You don't hear about the Italian Americans or the German Americans all that much, but they were part of executive order 9066 as well. However, their numbers were light in comparison to the estimated 120,000 Japanese Americans who were sent to internment camps across the mainland. And each island here in Hawaii also had detention camps. Of course, I think your viewers and listeners know about Hono Uli Uli in Honolulu. The Japanese Cultural Center has done so much to preserve and share that terrible story. But there were two detention camps on Maui as well. Every island had a detention camp, and a lot of people don't know that. And so these were, you know, if you are American of Japanese ancestry, you are considered an enemy alien of the state. And it didn't matter that you were born in the United States if you were Japanese. No, no. If you had an Asian looking face, and there is a, you know, there, you hear these stories about Chinese Americans in California who would put little signs on their shirt that said, I'm Chinese, I'm Chinese American, you know, don't, you know. So yes, I mean, just because of their ethnicity, they were sent away. And, you know, you hear terrible stories of how people lost their land and livelihoods and never got it back. But I will say that every now and then you'll hear a really beautiful story of humanity, where the next door neighbor honestly took care of the Japanese American individuals' land. And when they got back out of the internment camp, the, you know, the neighbor gave the land back and, you know, had indeed taken care of it. So every now and then we do hear those beautiful stories. So some good comes out of it, out of bad situations at times. At times, but we should make sure we try not to have those bad situations in the first place. Okay, let's take a look at the next image. It looks like some soldiers in the snow. Yes, actually, and I, you'll hear at the center where we're a two-person staffed office, but we have amazing volunteers that help out. But the other person here at the office is Melanie Agravanti. And she is our research archivist and she has been with the Center from before it started. She is just, you know, if you want to know anything about World War II or the Nisei veterans, you ask Melanie. So I was talking to her about this picture yesterday and she gave me a lot more information on it than I had ever had. But this was taken on November 12th in 1944. And it was the 442nd Regimental Combat Team's color guard assembled at a recognition ceremony ordered by General Dahlquest near Harier, France, immediately following the rescue of the lost battalion. The picture features the four, yeah, Hawaii members of the anti-tank company. So that's interesting because that leads into the next image. So the first image was in 1942 to, if you're Japanese, we're going to intern you, essentially, or there's something wrong with being Japanese, even if you're an American. And the second one is the Regimental Combat Team in 1944 after they rescued the lost battalion. Yeah. And the next image, just take a look at that, that one's 1963. What's this? Oh, from the state of Texas. Yeah. From the governor saying that the members of the 442nd are honorary Texans. Now, why would he do that? Why would he do that? Well, it was the rescue of the lost battalion, of course, was there is a Texas battalion that had got it, had been separated from the rest of its team. And incredibly long story short, it was the Nisei veterans that were called in to save the Texas battalion. We, the Nisei veterans lost 800 men in order to save 211 of the Texans. And they're, you know, all the time. Well, quite often we get phone calls or letters from family members of men who had been saved by the lost battalion, just, you know, wanting to share their thanks. These men saved the Texans and therefore the governor proclaimed them all honorary Texans. Wow. And I think, you know, so it's quite interesting. President Roosevelt, of course, was a Democrat. Governor Connolly was originally a Democrat, then became a Republican. But so 20 years passed and he felt that this was the right thing to do, show some recognition. And then the next image, let's take a look at that. That's from another Republican, President George Bush. What's this about? This, that's White House, White House stationery. What's all this about? This was the redress. So $20,000 was paid to every surviving U.S. citizen of Japanese ancestry who had been incarcerated. And this, you know, actually this is the 30th anniversary of the Civil, the Civil Liberties Act, just as a FYI. And this was signed, this, it was originally signed August 10th, 1988 by President Reagan. And then this letter is from George Bush, the first to accompany the checks that went to the families. I see. I see. So as part of the redress. This letter went with the funds that were paid. I see. Okay. And it's interesting, he says in the letter that, you know, a monetary sum and words alone cannot restore lost years or erase painful memories. Neither can they fully convey our nation's resolve to rectify injustice and to uphold the rights of individuals. Now that's interesting. It seems like at that point, the President, 44 years later, from the President that sent people into internment camps, they've kind of, the nation finally came to resolve that that was wrong. Right. They did. And, you know, there's a lot of, there's some controversy on the letter itself. You know, it wasn't addressed to, they weren't personally addressed to the individuals. You know, it's just a blanket letter with a stamped signature. So there are people who, you know, question its sincerity and understandably. But not a good time in our nation's history. Okay. Yeah, it's not a good time. Now, is there anything about those days that, in your opinion, those historical images, is there anything that seemed to reflect any current events or things that are going on nowadays? Yes. You know, of course, when you hear words like internment being used on the news as a good way to take care of issues today with certain ethnic backgrounds that, you know, really makes the hair stand up and without getting terribly political. And I'm sure everybody, you know, understands what we're talking about. We as citizens and with humanity in our heart need to make sure that we never again make these kinds of mistakes, you know, based on people's ethnicity or religion or gender or, you know, the list goes on and on. We can't make these mistakes again and we can't allow it to happen. We have about a minute left. And I'd just like to ask you, we often hear the term Gopher Broke used with the Nisei veterans and the 442nd, 100th Battalion. What does that mean to you? What does the term Gopher Broke mean to you? Well, I know we only have a minute. So I will say that when I first heard it, I, you know, coming from that Japanese background thought it was, you know, some Japanese phrase that maybe I, you know, hadn't translated properly and, you know, that it was, you know, very, very deep, which it is, but it actually comes from the dice game of Kraft, which was so popular in Hawaii. And it was, you know, at that point in the, the Kraft game, when, you know, every, you just got to put everything on the line. It's time to get serious. The fun of the game is over and you, you know, Gopher Broke, you've just put it all on the line. And that's where the term originated from a lovely Kraft game in Hawaii. And it was used as the, as the motto for the 442. And of course, it does mean to give it your all, but it didn't come from some bushel poem that I thought it might have come from that I didn't know. It came from a Kraft game. But it's, you know, it epitomizes these, these men of just putting everything on the line, you know, come what may, give it your all. And if it hadn't been for these men, we would not have the, the nation that we have today or the state that we have, because they came back and they continued to Gopher Broke and give it their all. So we are so appreciative of all that they did and their families too. Deidre, thank you so much. I appreciate your time this morning and all this information. And look forward to seeing you again in Kahlua at the, the Nisei Veterans Memorial Center. Aloha. Aloha. Thank you so much.