 Welcome to Toffy TV, now over the last few days there's been a lot of talk about Harry Winks, the Spares midfielder, whether it be a permanent deal, whether it be a loan deal. It certainly looks like Frank Llanpard wants the player to come to Everton in some capacity, so just before we get into some comparisons, what kind of player is Harry Winks? Where would you see him playing in the Everton side? Oh, where would you see him playing? I'm going to say Spares. I think he's a midfielder who thrives in a possession team, so obviously Frank Llanpard's looked at us and were not great with the ball. I think everybody except that would need to try the really on. When he come in it didn't really work, I think he thought Donnie van der Beek would do that for us, but it didn't quite happen for a number of reasons. And it seems like he wants someone who will get on the ball and recycle the ball. For us and get us passing, passing a bit more than what we did, because at times we did have to go a little bit more direct, but I think it was to do with the personal rather than the way you wanted to play. And that's the kind of player he is. He's someone who just keeps things ticking over. He's neat and tidy in possession. He's not fantastic defensively. He's not fantastic offensively. To be honest, he seems to be a more mobile as I go. Is he the kind of player where you can look at all his numbers or look for the numbers that you want, to which for some people fit into what their parameters are, assist, goals, running, those kind of things. Do you think those kind of numbers just don't fit in with the kind of position he plays in that number six role, taking the ball off the back four and playing through the team? He doesn't seem to be like a traditional number six, as in what you think of breaking play up in front of the back four. We'll see in a minute where his tackle is per game and stuff. He's not like a destructive number six, so where there's Ghana, unbelievable tackle and stats, didn't he tackle everything? He's not really like that, but he's someone who tries to just offer it with the ball. I think Spades used them with Huyberg. Huyberg had dropped Natalie into that because that's his position and Winx has played to the side of him, so Huyberg win the ball and give it to Winx, and Winx will get the passion going. Trying to be positive as it can, because he's not really someone I would have picked forever to go and get. I want someone in that role of the six to be to be destructive, to win the ball back for us and protect, and I want my other midfielders to go and get goals, and he doesn't really do either. That's not to say he's not a good footballer because he is, he's quite mobile as well. He's played for England, he's got 10 caps for England and scored one goal. So he is a decent footballer, there's no question about it, and he's probably, in terms of what he does, he'll be better than anything we've got who does what Harry Winx does in terms of having the ball. Does that mean he's exactly what everything needs? I don't know. Ultimately though, like you mentioned before, it comes down to which way Frank Llanparg wants to play, what he envisages in his mind, and what we did see last season, obviously Donny van derby came into the squad. First look, a couple of games looked really positive, but he was always someone who was asking for the ball from the back four, and with very success, through some games, I remember the Wolves game at home where the back four just didn't want to give him the ball, he felt like if it got taken off in that position, we'd get caught out. But then when Fabian Delph came into the team, he did see a lot more of that ball, and I don't think his numbers would say that he was playing as a traditional number six, a destroyer, he was playing more of getting the ball on the half team and then playing it either wide or to the midfield in front of him, meaning that we weren't always reliant on going down the wings, which for a heavy part of the season early on, we really, really wide and it went wide and it made that, it made it really predictable and we were easy to stop. You stopped us playing wide, you knew the opposition knew that, we weren't going through the middle. So do you think that obviously having a player like him, the manager would be thinking greater possession numbers, more control over the game? And obviously we can move the ball into more central areas where we could find ourselves in some good areas. Yeah, I think the problem at times with everything is the way to one-dimensional, trying to get it wide. And once we lost, like Luca Dean, with his ability to put crosses in, we did lose something to other players. We've had in wide areas, Damari Gray or Anthony Gordon fragging and saying, they're crossing stats aren't exactly very good. It's definitely got to work on both, you know, both of those have got to do that work. So we never really replicated, excuse me, what Luca Dean gave us. You know, we'd seen a year before, I mean he goes Domina Calvert-Lewin had got, yes, he had supply from Hammers or Deegers as well and Guilfee Sigarton, but Luca Dean as well. If you're going to have Domina Calvert-Lewin, then you do have to have crosses, but that doesn't mean necessarily that. You always should go down the wings. You know, we, if you can go, if you can play through the middle or wide, you're opening up the pitch, whereas if essentially teams know, well, they just try and get it wide and put a crossing. It's quite easy to play against them. I think I've got to get away from that. I think that was one of the issues. Now what some people will be concerned about with, the likes of Harry Winx is, is he physically strong enough? He is slight, but he is combative, don't get me wrong, he can get around a pitch, he's not slow and he does like to have the ball, but I would still think I need another one in there with him and add the line decori in there as well, which would suggest to me that I need to play three in the field. This is something I've had to do for a number of years and we've never quite, I don't think we've quite done it as well as we ever did do it with Ross Barclay, Garnay, and people like Schneiderlin or if McCarthy was in there, or people like when Gareth Barry was there, Barry McCarthy and Barclay. Then when them three were in the field, everything seemed to be quite strong in there. I just think there's been a tendency lately to play with two, but because of the makeup of those two, we've been overrun so many times, so it is difficult to know. The manager seems to look at him and think, well, we can get him in. In terms of what they're looking at at the minute, Spears allegedly won £20 million, apparently only won a loan deal. Which is smart, I think, if you don't go and waste the big pot of money on someone that you're not sure about. Without knowing Frank Llanplade's plans are tight. I do believe that. The position itself is a position that we really, really needed last season. I think having a player who's good on the ball, good under pressure, allows you to break the pressure of the opposition, taking that ball under pressure, and then getting it through the lines of the opposition. I do think we struggled by not having one for a large amount of decision. And I think when Fabian Delft did play the odd game, I think it did calm us down a little bit, and when we had someone who could take the ball off the back for, so they weren't being pressured, and just going along with it, or losing possession themselves. Because you see the likes of... I mean, it sounds like we've seen the likes of Mason Hoggy dwelling on the ball and the next month, the opposition's on them, and the goals we lost by our own mistakes, not having that player who comes and asks for it. So I do think the position is needed, certainly with the make-up of our midfield. So it's going to be interesting whether it is Harry Winks, whether he's the player, obviously, that Franck Llympard has looked and thought, right, he fits the bill for us, and if you can get him on loan, then maybe he'll get you through this season, when money's obviously going to be tight and is needed, and obviously for the areas where we need goals, so... Well, we know that. We know Everton wants two centre midfield players this summer. So if you can get him in on loan, I think, you know, then what you're other one about, is you're other one of goalscorer midfielder, is it Conor Gallagher, who does get goals from there and has loads of energy? Would Gallagher Winks and Decorae be a decent three in midfield for Everton, quite possibly, because you're getting legs and energy and then you've got Winks who's going on the ball? Something like that might work. I still want someone like Moe Cymru from Salzburg or Czech Decorae, from, you know, a combattative midfield player who is decent on the ball and can compete. But if, you know, Everton wants to get Winks in it and a Conor Gallagher, then, yeah, that gives us some goals. Cos we've done the squad assessment thing at the end of the season. It's just glaring through the middle. And Harry Winks, for all, is neat and tidy football and being comfortable in possession and getting your team playing. Doesn't score goals and he doesn't get assists. Now, okay, assists can be deceiving. You can get an assist for passing the ball to someone in your own half and they dribble and score, but goals, you know, me need more goals from my field and he doesn't get enough. So it's a tricky one. We're up now with what the whole picture is. But this, just right now, that does have to be a little bit of... And I understand everyone's hesitancy. I do, I'm not telling anyone the wrong for being sceptical whatsoever. He wouldn't be in my top half a dozen picks for the centre of my field, bringing someone in. But we have to kind of, I think, allow the manager to start trying to put his plan together before we can fully look and go. I don't understand why we brought him in. Do you know what I mean? Cos we could get him and everyone's gone. Do you love to add in two players you haven't mentioned there, that you have to factor into that, Alex O'Wobee and Deli. And where they fit into that grand plan with having possibly wing back. So, you know, or having your full back pushing high. It's difficult because if it's going to be three at the back, then... So you've got three, five, what? Are we playing three in my field and two centre strikers now? If you're trying to play three, four, three, cent, then we're still saying there's only two in midfield. Harry Wings, you know, D'Corey. Well, like, well, where's O'Wobee then? So is O'Wobee becoming a wing back or a wing? What's happening with Deli Alley? What's happening? And you write there two names there and you look at them and go on. And go on, what's happening here? Because without knowing the plan, we're just guessing with that, to me. Harry Wings just going into that midfield with what we've got ain't sufficient. That's in my opinion. And that's not calling Wings, I'm just saying. Yeah, yeah. But like you just said, it's our off knits together, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Let's just look at Wings's numbers from last season. So there you go, 19 games played. These are Premier League games, I think. You've started nine Premier League games. No goals, one assist. Passing accuracy, 88%. Tackles per game, just under one per game and he wins 50% of his duels. Now obviously, tackling, you can look and go, that's less than one a game, what's going on there. And that is a little bit mad for a midfield player, but it depends what his MO was. If Huybergs did destroy it and Huybergs' jobs to get it and pass it to Harry Wings, then here's will be more about nicking in and getting interceptions and my impression people and getting on the ball and taking the ball and getting moves started. Just because you've got a midfielder, he's less than one a game when he hasn't been playing in that natural position. Stats can sometimes be a little bit... They can give you the wrong spin, but the caveat to that is, if we get them as a number six, or if we get them as a number eight, if we get them as a number six and he hasn't been playing that position and his current stata less than one a game, why are we choosing someone who doesn't... Again, we're going back into that square-pax manthold thing and which you haven't seen to do year after year for years. So, again, we're pre-empting it and Frank Lampard might say, we're getting another midfielder as well. He's just going to come in and be part of the squad and if we can get them on loan and try to earn himself a permanent movie. That kind of transfer, you go, all right, I'm okay with that if he's trying to, if there's a plan, like you say. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, let's have a look at... You're looking totally underwhelmed at the moment. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what you got before we look at comparisons, what is you got feeling on them without being... You know, is it met? Is it just another like, here we go again? It's, yeah, that's what it's like. And I... Does this school of thought, right, and I'm not going against it, but does this school of thought, right, where it's like, you've got to let the manager do what he wants and so far it's, it's... And it's like... Flandland parties prove nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. What he's proved so far to me is that he could see there was an issue and he changed things and he made us a little bit more defensive resilience. But he hasn't proved anything else to me. And he can get the fans. Yeah, and he gets the fans. Get the clubs and the fans. I get all that, I like all that, I like that. That's not a problem. But this thing of like, he's got my own dying trust. I haven't. But don't you... That's right, yeah. I, I, I'm, I'm not, I've not, I'm not sitting here going, oh, give him the key. No, I just... But what I'm saying is, the only thing, the caveat, the only thing to that is, just because this is the start of the summer, we don't know how this kind of stuff is going on. But that's not, that's, but there, that's slightly different from what I'm saying. I'm like, let's see what happens. See what happens. But what, but I am definitely, definitely not sitting here going. Let him do what he wants. How many times have we done that? I want to see. We will get on to that. Sorry, I'm sorry for the intro. I just, I want to see. We said it all week, haven't we? The other things we've done. Someone come in here, no one's talking about it. And go, right. Because that, no, but that, to me will convince me that there is a thought process, that isn't just... Oh, Harry Wings. Please don't get me wrong. It doesn't have to be about I don't know this place, we must be good, that thing. But what, but my point being is, we give Kuman at a very sort of successful fair season and then we sort of went, here's all the trust and here's all the money. And then that's what happens and we're still suffering from that. I think some people, and I'm not telling anybody what to think, but I think some people should just be a little bit more cautious because we've been here before and I get that Frank Lampard is the stuff, he gets the fans and all that. Acknowledging that the fans will be into the end of the season doesn't mean I give him all my faith. No, no, no, but that's the point though. Don't get carried away with staying up. Can we just... Can I ask you this then? Can't be negative though, can we about it? There's a difference. There's a difference between being negative and I've seen this so far all summer. It's not even about being cautious, but there's a difference between being negative and being realistic. There's a massive difference. If negativity follows realism, that's just the way life is. You can't sit there going, you can't have to dog me. Everything's all right when it's not. And far too many people do that from my liking. Far too many people think we stayed up, everything's going to be rosy now. It's far from rosy. It's far from rosy. So I think there has to be a cautious approach. Just because we stayed up and Frank gets the fans doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned. I've been here far too many times before and don't get me wrong, that's not me being negative, that's just me going, okay, let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. But this idea that you just go, oh, in view on Sally. I'm faith. By the way, if he wants Harry Winks, he'll sign Harry Winks. So I've got nothing to do with me and nothing to do with you. He'll sign and we'll just talk about him every week and if he's good, he's good. And if he's bad, he's bad. And it doesn't really matter. But this idea that people can have their opinion just because either, oh, don't bring negativity into it, behave yourselves, we're grown-ups. I do think that negativity can grow and I don't think people, you can be cautious without it. Absolutely be cautious and go. I've just said in self that I can 96, 6 number 6 is a traffic this summer and it wouldn't cost, probably wouldn't cost what Harry Winks cost. And they don't play in the Premier League. I could do that right now. They would be the ones I'd go after. But you can have the conversation without being someone on either side going, you're being negative or you're being too positive. I'm looking at the situation going, I need to start being proved. These people need to start proving things to me before I start jumping in bed with everybody because we've done that loads of times now. And it's all like going, yeah, but this fella's different from the last. Getting harder to do it. Exactly. That's the thing. You can't be, you know, yeah. So let's have a little look at the Corry. Him up against the Corry from Matthew. So here you go, obviously, at the light of the Corry, played 30 games last season, scored two goals, got four assists, passing accuracy 80% average two and a half tackles per game and won 49% of his duels. So, I mean, straight off there, you've got obviously the goals, the assists from the Corry, Harry Winks slightly, won slightly more duels than the Corry, but they're much better passing accuracy. Well, that means just off that one now, they aren't the same kind of thing. No, no, and that's what we're talking about. If you had a three in midfield and you've got the Corry on one side, if you're just a matting like a V, so you'd have a traditional number six, you'd have Winks on one side and the Corry on the other, well then Harry Winks is going to be tasked with getting the ball and getting us playing and the Corry then should ideally be doing exactly what he used to do for Wofford. And when he's being allowed to do it forever and has done it well, which is breaking into the penalty area, you know, we remember goals at Old Trafford, breaking into the box, we remember them. They put even the game in the FA Cup when Hammers slid it through against, it's a slit me mind, third round, the goal isn't going to go down anyway. Rather them, rather them, I think it was rather them. He runs through and knocks it in and we win the game 2-1 and things like that. They're the kind of the Corry you want to see, don't it, 2-1 against us, for Wofford a few times? What has happened to Wofford with that delay of the Corry, he's been asked to do other people's jobs here because he's got an unbelievable energy. He can't get around with it. That's actually a proper number six without the Corry. Well, of course he would have made him a better player and he wouldn't always be trying to get him to start the attacks when every other Tony will look around some days and go, oh my God, he couldn't pass water today. And yet other games, he's fantastic. So if you add him in there, then yeah, I think they both benefit. Let's have to see the next comparison, which is of course another one of our midfielders. It is Alan. So Alan's played 29 games last season, no goals. Two assists, so one more than Harry Winks. Average again, passing accuracy, 80%. So less than Winks. 2.6 tackles per game, so Winks is 0.8. Alan wins 44% of his joules and Winks wins 50% of his joules. So again, Winks, better passing accuracy. So neither of them score. Well that's a fair comparison because Alan plays more in that position even though we both feel, I think, that he gets you on into that position as well. He's not a proper number six, he's not. Cos there is an idea that a number six is a destroyer, but I think, you know, the way the games evolve, there is that play that goes and takes the ball off the back court. I'll give you one, he was never a destroyer. Andrea Paylor, no, I'm not. Before anyone takes this out of context, Harry Winks is not Andrea Paylor. No, no. But what I mean is, Paylor, who was an attacking midfielder early on in his career, a number 10, ended up going and sitting in front of a back four. Now, it's a good tackle. This passing range was fantastic, much better than Harry Winks. Depline number 10. Exactly, much better than Harry Winks. But what I mean is, the idea is, you don't need to necessarily control yourself. Yeah, there's two kinds of people who play in that position. There's that, what you're saying, which is the depline midfielder who takes the ball off the back four and then starts using it through the midfield and then's the other side of it who is more, yeah, the water carrier, kind of player, destroyer, who sits in front of the back four, you know, the Lee Carsley. And obviously, I think, you know, he looks at Harry Winks as being obviously the player who takes the ball off the back four. So Alan is probably one of the nearest comparisons. But again, I don't think it's true this position. The next one we've got is... Andre Gomez. I mean, it says Alan Butch. It's Andre Gomez, yeah. Last season, Andre Gomez, 14 games, no goals. Both had one assist. Now, a lot of people talk about Gomez, you know, he's in the team for his passion, he has seen all that. Well, he's actually out of the three. We've put up so far, he's just the least 77% he averages. What's incredible is Gomez averages slightly more tackles per game than Winks, which is mad, but only wins 40% of his duels, where Winks wins 50% of his duels. Harry Winks, obviously, far better pass, now he's receiving Gomez. Could beat, you could liken him to Gomez, I guess if you're talking about goals and assists, neither of them get a lot. But Winks is far more mobile than Andre Gomez. Obviously a better passer and wins more of his duels. So whether you use him in that role, again depends on who else comes in and how many people are in midfield. So if you went in the midfield too, Winks is more mobile to play in there, so he can cover the ground a bit more when Gomez is in the two, we're in trouble, aren't we? But we did see them figure early on in Frank Lampard's reign. When Alan and Gomez played against Brentford in that midfield, how they done it, they just alternated who come and took the ball off the back and went and Gomez had a fantastic afternoon that day. Unfortunately, he couldn't repeat it and finished the season poorly, but again, it's that big thing of goals, isn't it? Goals and assists, they're just not getting it. I mean, if we have a look at a comparison of here with the rest of army field players, you know, games played and goals scored, the core eight, 339 career games, 40 goals. Andre Gomez, 313 career games, 25 goals. Alan, 468 games, 14 goals. Tom Davies, 159 games, 7 goals, and Harry Winks, 203 games and 5 goals. So, quite clearly off that, just off that career games and goals, Winks, 5 goals, you know, a goal every 40 days. I will give him the benefit of the vote on that. I don't think that's his position to do that. I don't think that's a misleading stat. That's what I'm saying, that's a misleading stat. And I think assists is a misleading stat. I don't think you're truly ever going to do that, playing in that position. But just put it up because of that goals that are lacking in that thing. That's what skews the argument though, isn't it? At times as well. This is why again, it's not always black and white. It's a position on the pitch where you're not necessarily looking for the goals. You're looking for someone who's going to get your team going and going to get them moving up the pitch and allow you to keep possessions or beat the press, which is such an important thing now. So I don't necessarily look at those numbers, thinking, oh, that's terrible. What I do worry about is when, say, if we had to buy him, he'd spend £20 million on a player who doesn't get your goals and assists in a team that doesn't have any other goals in it. That's what I worry about, especially if you're losing one of your top goal scorers. So that's more to the worry for me. But I don't look at that and go, I doesn't score enough because for me it's not his position. And it is a position we need to fill by the way. I can't stress that enough. Whether he's the right man, that's a diff. Again, that's another argument. At the moment, we've only got, you can throw all the names at me. He's the only one willing to put in that position and that's why we're talking about numbers. And again, because we haven't got any proper, I mean, we probably could have done with Fabian Delft's numbers, but we haven't been given those numbers. Just as a comparison, but on that, Tom Davis is probably, as we've seen it with our own eyes, the closest player we have in that. And for a lot of people, Tom Davis is not good enough, he's not strong enough. So we're waiting to see. Listen, the manager's got an idea of how he wants to use them and that includes a couple of other players coming in, then great, but... Especially if he's alone. Yeah, if he's alone, yeah. I think a lot more people, I think people would be a lot more comfortable with it if it was alone deal, I think. Whether Spares are prepared to do that, that remains to be seen, doesn't it? The money will be tight this summer, we know that, and I'd rather have it. Cos he's 26, 27 next February, so I was just saying 26 if you want. It's one of them. I still think we need a more powerful, more mobile midfielder. And if we do get him on loan and then the other player, then I would look and go, well, you know what? Now I can understand what he's trying to do with the midfielder. It is early, but he'll be an interest. But like you say, it'd be a lot more palatable if he was alone deal. Did you go? Let us know your thoughts in the comments on Harry Winks, the pros and the cons. Just let us know your thoughts, what you've seen from him so far. Let us know and make sure you do that. Give this video a like, subscribe if you haven't already. If you want more great videos, join us over on Patreon. The link is in the description. The QR code will be on the screen right now. See you later.