 As the one year anniversary of lekkie shooting emerges, the police command places a ban on any planned protest and Protonable Group South-West Agenda for Asuadu launches Suwaga in Lagos. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anna Cole. The Lagos State Commissioner for Police Hakim Odumosu earlier this week warned against any planned protest in the state. Also, the statement signed by the State Police Command Spokesperson Adikunli Ajise Butu revealed that the command had received information of a planned protest to mark the one year anniversary of ensarse protest. He cautioned that the police would not hesitate to use all legal means to stop the protest from taking place following the experience of the last ensarse protest. In a response to this, the United States Human Rights Group Take It Back movement said that the warning is an invitation to Aniki. Joining us to discuss this is Dele Farotimi. He is a retired lawyer and of course we are being joined by Inibara Ifyong, who is also a legal practitioner. Thank you very much for joining us Mr Farotimi. Oh, we have Inibara joining us also. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Alright, so let's take a step back a bit and revisit what happened last year. Let's reanalyze the reason for the ensarse movement in the first place because we're all talking about ensars, but then most people fail to remember the reason why this movement started in the first place. What became a protest that now resulted in the lives of people being taken? Let's go back to it. Has the reason for the ensarse protest been addressed? The simple answer is no. Ensars came about because of police misconduct, ranging from a strategic killing, extortion of citizens, harassment of innocent Nigerians, framing of people for offending they have not committed, detaining people beyond the period allowed by law, delving into stateful matters which are not supposed to be the business of the police, for letting the violation of the rights of Nigerians including the right to protest, the right to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. These were the reasons why young people were fed up with the anomalies and came out in their thousands. I want the country to demand police reform, to demand the abolition of sars. Sars was only a symptom of a very terrible disease, which is the police other than the institution. So when they claim they had abolished sars, what we have seen in the last one year is that this is clear unwillingness on the part of the federal government, on the part of state governors, on the part of the leadership of the police and even the police service commission to reform the police. I have not seen any serious indication that the president of the country, the inspector general of police or any other authority in this country is interested in police reform. Citizens are still being killed regularly, almost on a daily basis by the police across the country. Nigerians are still complaining online that they are being distorted, they are being forced to withdraw money from corrupt policemen at checkpoints. People are still being detained beyond the period allowed by law. Civic expression, like protests, is still being disrupted. We have also seen indication that contrary to the statement of the then espionage of police, the purported directive that all special units were to be disbanded. We have seen that these units have come back in different variations. Policemen are still going about without uniforms, heavily armed, raiding people, arresting people by the road, the impunity has not stopped. So what I see is that the Nigerian government does not appreciate the gravity of the SS protest and that is worrisome because none of us can predict the dimension that the next answers or a similar protest is going to take. Interesting. Let me come to you, Mr. Farruzimi. It's interesting the position that Mr. Effiong has taken. He's insinuating that the government is not interested, security agencies are not interested. The police whose department, whose rogue department was the reason for this protest, which all obviously metable forced into asking for good governance, et cetera, et cetera, seems also not to be interested in addressing the issues that have been put forward. So again, does it mean that the efforts, the blood, the tears, the sweat of young people, young Nigerians who were dissatisfied with what was happening has gone in vain? Does it mean that the reason for this protest in the first instance has become an exercise in futility? Did it even hit any nerves or did it even cause for any change or any replaying effects? Well, first let me first of all apologize for the several technical issues I seem to be having. Welcome to Nigeria of our birth and sojourn. Now let me, in the Bay is not too far from being right, but I will look at the same set of facts and interpret them slightly differently. I think I would do these perhaps with the benefit of each. In Libya, we would come to know Nigeria for what it is a little better as we go along. It's not like they don't understand the gravity. They understand the gravity quite all right. But they have gained it and they have concluded that nothing will come out of it. They have concluded that probably they will kill another set that they might need to kill because we don't ever appear to have clarity as to what even we who see changes and who have hearts for Nigeria to change. We don't appear to be quite clear as to exactly what we want. So the system, our rulers are always very clear about what they want. So they've gained it a year ago. We can't even establish how many. That is just to tell you the ease with which lives can be discounted in Nigeria. And within the same Nigeria, we had a lot of people come out on behalf of the same government. But every day Nigeria, not even beneficiaries of the system, are happy to help the system to perpetuate the lies that nothing happened. When you have this kind of environment in this kind of society, the system has gained it that at the end of the day, they will give us 20 to 23 elections to start debating. So in place of any substantive changes, what you find is that now a lot of youth are being distracted and they are being asked to go and register to vote as though the system within which they are being asked to vote were to be one that has any space for them in any way, shape or form. So it's not like they don't know, they know, but they have gained it and concluded that ultimately, they would be able to write through the storm. If you look at the way they've handled the panels, with the exception of the one in Lagos, I must say that the one in Lagos, because it's been kept on its toes with the relentless effort of a lot of people who have made up their minds as much as possible, that panel must be able to do his work, which is to find the facts. Other than that, the state has just concluded that it can write this term, that nothing will come out of it. Like Nibbe has said and I align myself completely with this, it's just a matter of time. You can't keep suppressing the truth by share force of harms. Eventually, the state would have to deal with the substantive issues of the inequities because the NSAS protests is just a parable for several things. There is a system that allowed NSAS, that allowed the SAS unit. That system of impunity that allows the SAS unit is the same one that is allowing all the other things that the NSAS protesters started cussing on to as the protests progressed because it moved from NSAS, which is merely a unit, to end impunity, to end bad governance, to end these and end that that is negative about Nigeria, which was what got the government G3. So let's understand that for a season, darkness might seem to have prevailed. But it isn't inevitable that the done would come. You can't keep, this can last. It's just a matter of time. They've just bought time, that's all up. But they bought time, that's the only thing I would say. For how long? We'll find out soon enough. I want to pick up on something that you said, that the politicians, the political class, obviously knows what they want and they plan for it as opposed to us. Now, I want to make reference to sudden naysayers, people who criticize the NSAS movement. I had a young person here yesterday who said, I'd like to quote him, that they did not have a leadership of sorts and so they did not have a direction, someone that could direct them or they could take orders from. I do not know if that sits well with you, but they're saying that the reason why it played out, the way it played out and was seemingly unsuccessful was because they all said, we don't want a leader. Do you think that that's why the whole protest broke down? Do you think that that's why it was infiltrated in the first instance, or maybe they came on too strong? I think it is critical that we do not allow the state to reshape the narrative of the NSAS protests. The NSAS protest was a coming of age. The Nigerian people, the one who came after us, who see me inherited a democracy, came to the point where they came to realize that they were not in a democracy. Now, whether they had organized and had elected leaders for their protest or not would have made no difference to the response of the Nigerian state and its rulers. His responses were always predictive, but if you really think about it, my generation had recognized leaders when we went to protest. There were proper structures. Nans had a structure. Masu had structures. The NLC had structures. There were several structures, but those structures actually made it much easier for the Nigerian state to either compromise the leaders of those unions or to victimize them. So this particular decision by those who spearheaded or at least grew the protest, was a lesson learned from our own generation. But the reality is that it's not only a fusion of what we had learned in our time, the energy of the young ones today, and a clear vision for what the future should hold that can governize us into that future. But for anyone, particularly someone in your own generation, to presume to a portion blame as it relates to what he considers leadership vacuum or leadership failure, it says a lot about his person, but the answer is protest first. Because if he had these ideas, where was he when his mates were busy standing on the streets for ideals he apparently subscribes to, but which he's not willing to sacrifice for? That is the typical Nigerian. They can't do it, they won't do it, but any other person doing it must be criticized. They always know what went wrong, but they never have any idea to improve what is ongoing. Interesting. Back to you, Niberga. It's a year later. I mean, the anniversary or the start of this protest. Of course, October 20 is going to be, of course, the remembrance for those who were at the toll gate on that day. But let's talk about the protest in its entirety. It's one year later. Already the legacy of police commanders issuing statements and warnings after these protests. And I was curious when I was getting ready for this show, I was thinking to myself, there are pending issues. Like, like I said, we're still having the Lagos panel sit, even though it's not here, not there. There's so many things hanging in the balance. But then the police is issuing these statements saying, oh, they hear that this is going to happen and so we cannot protest. I'm going to ask you because you are a lawyer. Is there anything in the constitution that says that the police can tell us when not to and when we can protest? Is there any such thing in the constitution? Because I have had many police officers, either the IGPs or commissioners on my show, and I've asked the same question. Where in the constitution says that we have to take permission from the police before we protest, as this is supposedly a right for every human? The current commissioner of police in Lagos, Mr. Odomos, I hope I got the pronunciation right, has a very one admirable history of disregarding the rule of law. The man seems disconnected from democracy. He cannot appreciate why citizens should spread themselves. He cannot understand why Nigeria should be a group, why negotiations should come out to spread the opinion on issues of concern. And he had consistently, over time, climbed down on peaceful protesters, assaulted journalists, led invasions of protest venues, peaceful protest venues, and he continues to serve the corrupt elites without any regard for human rights, without any regard for democracy, without any regard to his statutory responsibilities or to your question. We need to say clearly and emphatically, there is nothing under the constitution, there is nothing under the Police Act of 2020, there is nothing under the laws of Lagos State or any other law for that matter in this country that empowers the police to detect where, or for what reason, citizens should gather peacefully and express themselves. The right to freedom of expression we must remind the Commissioner of Police is one that is guaranteed. Under section 39 of the constitution, it is a right that endures both to Nigerians in Lagos State and other parts of the country. So it is not in the mouth, it is not in the mouth of the Commissioner of Police to say when citizens can protest or when they cannot protest. In fact, and as a matter of law, even when the Commissioner of Police or the police is of the opinion that wood lumps, so-called wood lumps, as they always say, will infiltrate or hijack the protest. The law is that the police has no right to disrupt their protest. All that they can do is to protect the protestors and ensure that wood lumps will not succeed in their plan. But again, this is a lawless institution. This is an institution that has pinched itself against the Nigerian people and they continue to display this arrogant attitude that they can detect to negotiate but detect to Nigerians when they are supposed to protest. The Commissioner of Police has no business telling Nigerians that they cannot celebrate or protest in commemoration of the anniversary of Assad. In fact, by his statement, he is indirectly telling us that Assad protest was justified that those who came out to protest first to be a police, for police to be reform had a legitimate reason to do so. So his statement is only a vindication of the protestors because he showed how rotten the institution of the police is. For you to still have a Commissioner of Police still talking in this manner as if Nigeria is a police state as if we are under military dictatorship. Let me say this. In the case of Chancellor Putha and the Special General of Police and others where represented Mr. Chancellor Putha, the police said that they had intelligence reports that wood lumps were going to hijack the Resume of Resent protests in Anguja at the Unity Fountain. And my position was that you cannot disrupt the protest because you have flimsy intelligence reports that wood lumps will infiltrate it. And the court agreed that you cannot stop people from protesting simply on account of your belief that their protest would turn violent. It is your responsibility to be there to ensure that that does not happen. And this is also reinforced by the Letra Act as amended in 2015 which has expressly stated that the role of the police during protest shall be limited to provision of security to the protestors. So what the CPI is supposed to do is to go to the venue of the protest and protect those who are protesting before him to sit in his office and in regards to this, that nobody should come out to protest that they would deal with anybody that is planning to protest. It is an assault on democracy. It is an assault on the rule of law. And it is a further demonstration that this is an institution that is unwilling to reform that is unwilling to respond to the demands of civilization. Okay. Mr. Fauci, the police is making claims just as Inibarge has said that there is credible information according to them at their disposal letting them know that there might just be some use who might want to take over the protest. But from what Inibarge is saying, there seems to be certainty on the path of the police that they have the right to call the shots. But we also know what happened early this year. Do you remember when the Lagos panel there was a reaction to some of the, you know, messaging coming from the Lagos panel and people wanted to protest? Do you remember what happened? We saw the police in its fullest force at the toll gate. Passes by were being arrested. They were being dragged. Remember, we saw the very famous debut dragged into a police van. And we saw all kinds of things happen. So again, why would the average young Nigerian who's tired of bad leadership, who's tired of being wrongly profiled by police officers, who's been fleeced of his hard-end money, or, you know, who's been harassed by the police, want to come out in protest. I mean, he does want to protest, but he's scared that he might be, you know, apprehended by the police and wrongly charged. Why would anybody want to really stick their head out at this point? You know, when my brother Inibarge was talking, I was laughing. I was laughing because with every word he said, it was vindicating my decision to run away from anyone addressing me as a lawyer. Inibarge just stated the position of the law. He quoted the law eloquently. He stated the position of the law eloquently. But we are not a state ruled by law. Nigeria is not a country law. How do you mean? How do you mean? What constitution? You see, this is the problem we all have. Which constitution, Decree 24? The policeman who is meant to enforce the law knows that there are no laws to be enforced. All he has to do is make sure that he works to administer the impunity that governs Nigeria. How dare the police commissioner? How dare he? For any other person who is governed by law speak out against the trash to even speak out and be presumed to curtail the rights of citizens. But he knows we are not citizens. This is the part where I feel sorry for the lack of Inibarge who continues to believe that this system has any respect whatsoever for the law that it presumes to foster everybody's trust. The reality is that Udo Mosul has never pretended to be a law enforcement officer. He is essentially, essentially the police arm of the Likus Army. The ones that the people, the ones that the M.C.U. law most of this world cannot undo, the like of him undo. Let's be clear. Where does he find the power? Under what law? Which law? Post one to what law? Does he make the pronouncements that he makes in relation to rights that are enshrined in what they call a constitution? So you are insinuating that the Likus State Police Command is lawless and Likus State in itself is lawless? No, I'm not insinuating. I am saying categorically that Nigeria is not a country ruled by law because if it were to be a country ruled by law Aki Modumosu should be in a jail somewhere for consistently, consistently violating the constitutional rights of Nigerians. But because we are not in a country ruled by law as long as he is doing the will of his political masters there is nothing that will happen to him. So are you saying that you have lost faith in the, are you saying Mr. Farron to me that you have lost hope and faith in the Nigerian state and that there is no hope? Let's be clear about this. I lost hope and faith in the Nigerian state as it is long before I left the university because I already knew what it was back then. But then you went on to be a lawyer, didn't you? I had to earn a living and I also had to know the law so that I would know exactly how to avoid getting into their traps. The reality is that Nigeria is not a country ruled by law. I just showed you the evidence. Look, Inibe just quoted law for you. I don't even remember sections again. I believe it's section 39 now. We have a right so-called under the law the citizen has a right. That right is constitutional. The courts have equally ruled. They've made it clear. They've made it clear. It's not for a lack of knowledge of what the legal position is that these people are doing these things. But they are doing it because they know that the law does not matter. What matters are their own will. When a state is ruled by the will of men that is not a state ruled by law. That is a state governed by impunity. Nigeria is not ruled by law. The sooner we all wrap our minds around this the better. It is not ruled by law. Okay. Finally let's talk about justice for these people who were either injured people who lost family members. Let's not forget that recently I think I had that talk with you they were able to match the bullets with that of the Nigerian army and you sounded more you sounded more off-putting like nothing was going to be done about it. Now here we are. How do we access the dividends of democracy? How do we get accountability as Nigerians under a state where we should be operating a democracy even though our rights to protest which is one of the very important tools in getting dividends of democracy is being strifled. How do we get our leaders to be accountable to us? How do we get the dividends? How do we even get our leaders to be responsible to us in any way if this is the picture that you and Delia are painting to me? I align myself with Mr Faro to me that Nigeria is a lawless country. It is a country ruled by impunity because the question you are asking is one that should worry all of us one year after two soldier, military officer has been commercial on accounts of the killings that took place at Lake Ituget the assault on protestors across the... look at the number of people that were killed during the protests in Lagos alone look at the number as even established by the state pathologies before the Lagos judicial commission of inquiry till today the answers panel across the states are not functioning. Lagos some states have wound up some states like Cross River, Gugia and others the panels are not functioning Lagos is the only state to my knowledge I think Gugun also came up with a small amount that has set up some monetary compensation for victims of police brutality which was one of the key demands even the federal government still date has not told us how much they are going to compensate Nigeria's whose cases have been established before these panels there is no attempts at accountability there is no attempts at justice or compensation so that is why I am telling you that by the actions of the regime by the actions of these governors there is a claim invitation on Nigerian use to go for instance part two that is the implication it is either we are ruled by the rule of law or Anaki is going to continue to perfect the land you cannot insist that they should be peace and at the same time you are actively working against justice both cannot coexist when there is injustice people have to respond that is the truth of the matter well I want to say thank you Deli Faro to me and Ibra Efe Young thank you so much for being part of this conversation we appreciate it thank you alright well thank you all for staying with us we will take a short break now and when we return a group campaigning for the former Lagos state governor of the All Progressive Congress in Nigeria Bola I met Tinnable is launching its campaign we will be back shortly to stay with us