 When it comes to damage to your body or recovery, not all tools and strength training or modalities are equal. So, here's a good rule of thumb. Free weights tend to cause more damage than machines, compound lifts tend to cause more damage than single joint lifts, and standing exercises tend to cause more damage than seated exercises. Also, generally true, higher reps tend to cause more damage than lower reps when intensity is controlled for. So consider this when creating your programming. Even though your sets may be the same, the volume may be affecting you differently depending on the modality. You lost me at rule of thumb. Yeah. I just can't, ever since you guys told me about that. Oh, about what that meant? Yeah. Sorry. I instantly think of a kid getting beat when you do that. No, it wasn't for a kid. I think of Boondock Saints immediately. Oh, was it? No, it wasn't for kids. Rule of thumb was a law. No, it was for your wife. Oh, it was for your wife. Yeah. Where a husband couldn't beat his wife when they stick, that was wider than his wife. Yeah. You had to be like that. So they're trying to be more civilized. Oh, wait, you guys, that's so politically incorrect for you to use that now. Anyway. But this is a general rule of thumb. I mean, most things when you look back are pretty messed up. Yeah. Where we get these sayings from. Yeah. So all right, so here's why I'm saying this. They're like free weights, more of the machines, compound lifts, more than single joints, standing more than seated, higher reps, more than lower. So this, I've known this for a while, but I'm experiencing it right now. So I've been probably for the last five weeks, maybe four weeks, five weeks, I've been training almost entirely on machines, which I almost never do. I almost never do it on a consistent basis. What a breeze, huh? I bet that's enjoyable. Fun and easy. Yeah. Well, machines. Hold on. So I'm doing this because I'm going to UFC fit. They got that. Now they have platforms. They have everything there. But they have all these machines they've never used. And when I go to a new gym, typically what I'll do is I'll do a bunch of stuff that I don't normally do just for the fun and the novelty. But for the last, like I said, four or five weeks, I'm like, you know, I'm going to do just a pure, I haven't, I've never done that or I haven't done that in decades where I just did machines for a consistent basis. And what I'm noticing, by the way, there's pluses and minuses to this. You may think that the damage aspect, the fact that it, because this is what I noticed, I don't get a sore. If I do the same sets with comparable free weight exercises to machines, I get, there's more damage on the body with the free weights versus machines. And we could talk about why, but it's just, it's just true across the board. So I don't get a sore, which means I can do more volume. But I'm also noticing, so I notice I get good pumps. I can see why bodybuilders like it. I could also see that I'm losing functional strength as a result of not training with free weights and blah, blah, blah. But really the main takeaway is I do more volume when I train this way. It's not equivalent to when I'm using free weights. So this is important when you're creating your programming to consider this. For example, a standing shoulder press versus a seated shoulder press, you can do the same weight, same wraps. Totally different animal. That standing one is gonna, it's gonna take your body a little longer to recover from. So it's important to know this when you're creating your programming that they're all, they're not all created equal, but you'll get affected differently. When I was training seven days a week, one of my like favorite techniques that I would do is to alternate the days of free weights and machines. Because I was training so many days and one of the ways to modify intensity would easy that way and I felt great doing that. So it's like in for years before that, right? So when I was in my late teens, early 20s lifting, I was like, all machine guy never did free weights. And, you know, we've talked on the show many times of like things that like broke us through plateaus. I don't think I've ever shared that one. And that was a major plateau breaker for me was I used to love the hammer strength, the machines and cables. And I was like, I rarely ever did free weights because they were hard. And I, and I could do so much more weight on all the machines. And so I stuck to doing that stuff. Not to mention it was easier to, to get into form technique was easier, all the above, but though my progress had stalled, and then simply going to like all the big compound lifts and doing free weights. Like I saw this huge plateau buster. Like so I think there's a lot of young men, especially because I see a lot of younger guys that tend to gravitate towards, towards the hammer strength and the machines all the time because they can do a bunch of weight that are stuck at a plateau, that if they would just move away from that and go in free, that mentality is hard to break. If that's how you've kind of been introduced into lifting weights. And you, and I guess that's where we want to, we want to get a hold of these young guys ahead of time. So you know, introduce them to these compound lifts with barbell training, because it is a hard transition to go from working out like that to now lifting, doing back squats, doing dead lifts. It's a really hard skill to acquire, like going from that. I think the key is to reframe it. Like this is what I had to do is reframe it. It's like, what gets me the best results? Period. Right. And so, and as you get more experience, you start to realize, oh, the more difficult the exercise and novel it is, and the more I suck at it, the more results I get from this. And so if you just approach the workouts like that, which is, oh man, if I suck at it and it's hard, I'm going to get the most return from it. Therefore I should do it. It's also this too. It's also, because people typically oppose the question like this, what's better, you know, free weights or machines? Like, okay, if I have to pick, then I'll make a choice. But I don't have to. I have access to all of them. So yes, free weights will cause more damage. Therefore we could say it sends a louder signal, more functional strength, that stuff, but machines allow for more volume to be used, which in volume also sends a muscle building signal. I can also use it and program it in when I need to, when I want to hit the muscles, but I don't want to cause as much damage to the body or much stress on the body. So the truth is, it's all how you use it. It's the mix. When you have a, when you have ingredients, you can use more of this ingredient to create this, this type of a flavor or more of this to create the flavor. It really depends on how you feel, what you've been doing. It's all valuable. So, you know, because what we tend to do in our space is we tend to do this, like it's either this or that. Yeah. Why? Front squats or back squats? Which one? How about both? Like, what if I, what if I practice both of them? Right? Leg press versus this. Like, if you have to make a choice, then I can answer it, but I don't have to. A lot of people don't have to. So there's value to all this stuff and the value that I can see with machines is, and some people would say this is a negative, but I see it as a potential value. It doesn't cause a lot of damage. So I could go do a ton of volume and feel okay. I can't do the same amount of volume with free weights. It'll, it'll, now if I have limited time, now it makes sense, right? Stick to it. Well, I just think if you, you know, if you don't introduce these harder lifts, like early enough, it's, it's like less likely because you can, you can get away with doing machines for a long period of time and no doubt, like you're still doing something, but to be able to have that contrast and be able to do kind of what Adam was talking about, like undulate that so you can do your compound less than you do, like other days in between. So it's more volume driven and less impactful in the joints. You know, it's funny because now I'm like, I'll lean in on like the machines because it's like, I've done barbell training for so long. It feels good as a way to change it up and feels a lot less damaging on the joints, which I love. But to have the baseline and the foundation first of those core lifts, it's really important. You know, it's funny. It's like every other lesson that I've learned lifting weights and nutrition is like going from one extreme to the other extreme and then finding out somewhere in the middle. Right. It's like, I did nothing but machines for the longest time. Then realize, oh, that's not, I'm not getting the results. As soon as I started to do free weights, then it became like all free weights. And then I started to plateau knee pain, tightness, stiffness, all these things that were bothering from lifting heavy in the same plane all the time. Oh, then I went the other other direction. It's like learning to balance and modify intensity throughout the week, also based off of not, not only what you're doing with the lifts, but also what's happening outside of the gym too. I think that's what makes the other piece to this is like, okay, well, there's some truth to the, the machines don't do as much damage to the, as, as free weights. And so it's like, not only do I have to juggle, okay, the intensity that I was training at and how sore am I the next day, therefore I should probably do machines. I also need to factor into, oh, what was my rest like? What's my nutrition been like? And though, so even there's times where I'll choose machines when I, I'm not necessarily sore from doing free weights the day before or two days ago, but I also recognize that I've been sleeping poorly or what that it's like, you know what, here's a way that I can modify intensity, even though I'm not super sore. And that's normally how I would use the machines is to pivot over that direction. But I'm also now factoring in other things like sleep and nutrition and stress. I was like, oh, okay, well, I'm not feeling my best. This is not the day to go heavy on my compound. I think for sure your first few years of training, you should master the, the barbell, you know, compound lifts. You should master them and get really good at them. But then after that, it gets kind of fun. And if you've been working out for 10 years, 15 years or I've been working out for 30 years. I actually, someone asked me the other day, how long have you been training? And I thought about it. It's all been over, over 30 years I've been working out. It gets, it's, it's, it's fun to do different things. It's a lot of fun. There's, I have no limits or why would I put limits on myself into, in terms of what I'm doing. But for the first, you know, three years of training, you should get good at those, you know, so I want to be clear, get good at those compound lifts. They have the most area. It's so funny that, I mean, I don't know. I'd argue at least five years you could get away with like never doing anything but the five lifts. Probably. Like the five main lifts just doing that for five years consistently. More beneficial than that. And you would build such a solid foundation, solid foundation and only doing that three days a week. Three days a week, full body. Even two days a week. Yeah. Yeah. Just, just consistently doing that. And, and treating it as not as, oh, my goal is to see how much weight I can necessarily put on the floor, but getting so good at the movement. The technique. Yeah. The technique of it and perfecting your form over those five years. And then like it just opens up every other pathway from there as far as like the way the results will come in. Totally. Today's giveaway is the RGB bundle here. So you can win that. Leave a comment below this video on the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also two days left for the brand new program. Maps, performance, advanced. This is a program for people who want to develop speed, power, agility, strength. Who want to get better at their given sport? Who want to perform better? Two days left. Meaning if you sign up right now, you get it for $80 off and you get two ebooks included for free grip, strength, reference guide and eat for performance. So if you're interested in that, just click on the link at the top of the description below. Use the code PA launch for the discount and the free ebooks. All right. Back to the show. All right. I got to bring this up because it was a huge topic of discussion over the weekend at my house. Right. So I never, almost never shopped for myself. Like clothing wise. I actually complimented this. Well, so I was like, you know what? I want to get it like a track suit. Like let me get like a track suit. So I went on Amazon and I have matching pants, by the way, at home. So I got it and it came in. I put it on and Jessica relentlessly made fun of me. Like, like, she's like, are you going to wear that? I'm like, yeah. She's like, oh my God, you look that's so stereotypical. You can't wear that. Whatever. Then the nanny comes over and I'm like, be honest, what do you think? She's like, well, I mean, I don't know. So then I'm like, I'm going to wear it to work. And then Jessica's like, Adam's going to make fun of you on the podcast. Oh, that's funny. As soon as I walk in, I complimented it. He's like, great jacket. I love the jacket. So there, honey. Yeah, you were wrong. It's got great retro vibes. Yeah, see, that's all right. That's it. That's the style. I feel all right now. Yeah, yeah, no. She may be still self-conscious. I don't wear it outside. I brought it in my bag. I feel like you're ready for a mimosa. Yeah, like I'm watching tennis. You know what I'm saying, bro? You'll, again, we've talked about this recently, right? Like a lot of these styles are like coming back in. That's a style that I feel like is coming back into styles and stuff like that. All right, all right. I feel a little better. I mean, you know me, I'd tell you right away if I didn't like it. But then she said the wrong thing to me, too. She said, you look like one of those stereotypical like Guido's. I'm like, now you're just convincing me. That was the look I'm going for. Now you're reinforcing it. Exactly, done. I'm going to put this on now because of it. She's like, wouldn't you buy that on Amazon? She's like, you didn't even get it in a department store. I'm like, no, you can get everything on Amazon now. It actually looks like pretty good quality. If you just buy, yeah, it's kind of warm. Yeah, I see what happens. Maybe I get a rash or something after. I want to see the full, the full get up. So he's got the matching pants. Oh yeah, bro, even the bottom, you know, the, for the ankle. All right. I actually have a question. You had her, she texted you, you're fucking me right now. A long, no, no, no, I have, I have some really cool Jordan ones. But I bought them back when the style of like overly baggy was, which by the way, it started to make its way back. So maybe I can bust them out. But they're really nice. I have, I have at least four matching. Were you guys parka starter parka guys? Okay, do you remember that either you wore the parka or some people have the gold 49er jacket? I had a gold one. You had the gold one too. Did you parka also? Yeah, not as much parka because, you know, that was heavy. So those are way too warm. Those are, those are years. So they're the same company. Starter did both of them. Right. The starter. The starter like the all the gold one you're talking about was earlier. That's first. Yeah. And the park has came later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had one too. So we were like, well, yeah, I had both. Were you, what, where did you wear cowboys? I had both. You had a niner and cowboys? No, no, no, no, no, no. The type's of style, like you're saying. I had the shiny and the more kind of fitted jacket that you're talking about, which is like the kind of shiny color or whatever with that. That was the starter emblem on the wrist. And then the parka came, came later. I had both. Those fit my boys now too. So my, my parents still kept them. Oh, you still got them? Oh, they wore that for the Super Bowl. Yeah. That's great. The gold one? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I had the big black one with the big 49er circular emblem on the back. And then did you guys put beads on the? I didn't, but that was a style. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, you put beads on the side. You don't remember that, Justin? You would buy beads that were the color of the jacket. It was the same. It was during the same. You wore them on the strings for the strings. It was during the same era as when the girls used to make the wristbands out of those things. So guys would rock them. So that's the one time. Or your chick would wear your parka. And then when you get it back, she'd put the beads on there. She'd do it for you. So I was in eighth grade when I did it. And it's the only time I ever shoplifted in my entire life was I stole beads for, yeah, because I went with a bunch of bad influences. Yeah, I stole beads for other things. Huh? What? Whoa, whoa, whoa. God damn, Justin. I just can't. You know why you threw a jab at him earlier? He's in a fire today. He's in a fire. He's in a fire. Hey, did you see I hacked your day in the life? Yes, I did. I was going to mention that. Oh, I missed that. I didn't see that. He's like a helicopter with all penis drawings. Oh. And I'm like a post. I thought he really posted that. Oh, yeah, that's why I was like, this could be something I would post. I thought it was him. I thought it was him who posted that. I really thought it was a piece that he did. A joke's on you. I was like, oh, it's great. He has an old piece he did. He saved her. I really did. He believed it. I was like, I'm just going to be needed. I believed it. I hella believed it. I thought, oh, I was like, oh, my god, he still has a drawing. I would have done that. That's the best guy I did best with. The helicopter. He owns it. Yeah, the helicopter. The helicopter. The helicopter. Yes. I thought it was so real. I totally thought it was real. I don't know how I found it. Oh, that's too funny. No, that was funny. Yeah, I was like, ah, this has got to be Sal. I knew it wasn't you, so. No, no, no. Yeah, he's notorious for that. I think I did it one time to him and then ever since then. You did it to me. Yeah, I did to you a long time ago. I don't remember what you did. I think I did it with your, when you were those little bikini shorts, a long time ago. Remember those? The grapes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to change those because I have two bikini briefs. Yeah, I stopped wearing them. I'm going to go back to those now. So, did you guys have a good weekend? Did you guys do anything? Yeah. Where did you guys all in the same area? Oh, yeah, we hung out like Friday night. Yeah, Justin, I hung out with. With the wives or just you guys? Yeah, yeah, with the wives too. We went to a thing. I had extra tickets and Markucci and Danielle were supposed to go with us. And then they ended up having a soccer tournament. So I had an extra pair. Was this the Duel and Pianos? Yeah. Oh, you guys went home. Yeah, cool. Oh, you must have loved that. Yeah, oh, yeah. It was cool, right? Yeah, because last time it was at the Ramsey event that we saw something like that. And it was just as good. I mean, they killed it, so. Yeah, I thought it was better. I thought it was. And this is dinner, drinks, and then you watch the show. Yeah, that's a good time. It was the first time that I had gone to, so it was in Morgan Hill. So like, I don't know, like two or three months ago, Katrina and I were getting coffee, like our local coffee shop that we go to. And there was a flyer on the window. And it was, oh, Duel and Pianos. I had just told Katrina, not that long ago. I was like, oh, when we were in Nashville, I said we really had a good time at the Duel and Pianos. I said, you and I should go sometime. I'm like, and then we had seen that. And I'm like, let's just go. And then we were like checking and we're like, OK, we're in town. I'm like, well, just buy like six tickets and then we'll figure out later on, right? And so we had a plan, put on the calendar. We invited Danielle and them. It was all done and hadn't thought about it for months. And then it came up this week. And she's like, hey, we got that Duel and Pianos. We got the warrior game. I said, I'd rather go to that. Let's go do that instead. And we're not going to go. And I'm like, you know what? Katrina convinced me. She's like, you know, this is our town now. We haven't been out that much here. Let's get to, you know, see if we like it. You know, so we know. All right, all right. And man, super cool spot. And food was good. Food was great. It was a swanky spot. Yeah, this spot was. So it's downtown Morgan Hill. I think it's called the Granada or something. Something like that. I forget the name of it, but it's like their little, like old school theater and it's all remodeled and redone. And they had all these like, you know, white tablecloth tables and nice chandeliers. Champagne vending machine. Yeah, I was like, oh, like little bottles. Or yeah, like little dual two glass bottles are like, like this big. You guys remember cigarette vending machines? I can't believe you have those. Of course. Remember that? You pull that you pull it. You can still, you can still get them like places like Reno and stuff have. They still have cigarette vending machines. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some of the old casinos still have some of those. Oh, well, at least it's in a casino. I remember when I was a kid, it's like, you know, I had uncles. They might be elite. I'm assuming they're illegal in a lot of places. I don't think you can do. Yeah, maybe maybe maybe Reno's the only place I can do it. At least I had maybe it was. You can do anything in Vegas. I was it was just me. And this weekend for me was just me and the little kids because I had bought my fifth, my 14 year old Disney trip for Christmas when it now came up. So her and her friend and Jessica, Jessica Schaper on them. So they went to Disneyland and just the three of them, just the three of them. And so it was just me and the little kids. So I was like prepped like, OK, dad, I'm going to do this. Right. And it did great, bro. I did so good. Oh, yeah. I did so good. The kids meltdowns or anything. Bro, I had the kids, the kids were outside 80 percent of the time. It was so nice anyway. The weather was great. It was a great weather. Yeah, it was amazing. We were outside most of the time I got my daughter, my 15 month old. I, you know, she's learning how to walk or trying to learn now. And so I had her take a little shoes and socks off and I had her walk around barefoot in the grass a bunch, took my son, my three year old downtown and we hung out in a park and looked at dogs. And we just had a we had a great time. Then Jessica comes back from the airport. Dinner was ready. I had made dinner. Kids were eating everything. And I was just like, bring your A game. Yeah, I was like, see, see. No problem. Easy, easy in reality. I was like, I was juggling. Now, when that happens, how does she handle that? Because sometimes it's like mom has a hard time leaving the kids for those two days. So she just misses them. Yeah, I mean, was she just like, all right, you got this? Or was it like all planned out? What, when, when to feed them? No, no, she totally fully trusts me. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, she's fully, fully trust me and tells me what. It gives you a whole itemized inventory. And I love how she does it too. She tries to like, she's like supporting, like to help me. Like, I know how this will make things easier. Yeah, yeah, I know you're really busy with work. And like, you just think I'm not going to fucking feed her son. That's why I know what this is. You're going to forget. She'll call either either my mom or her mom. Is it because at one time Max got overheated? Is that what happened? You forgot to get water. Is that why, bro? I puked all over the car. She's like, she always sets it up like that. I know you're so busy with work and all this stuff like that. So I just wanted to help you out. And I'm like, yeah, right? So I do this. But she'll call either my aunt, my mom or her mom, and she'll also schedule them to be at the house in town. Oh. So I always have. Well, I should give a little caveat. It wasn't just me. I had the nanny come both days too. It wasn't just by myself. Yeah, yeah. So she'll normally sit in support. I know right now I got a lot of stay-at-home parents right now are like, ah, that doesn't count. Yes, it does, still counts. And then I'll have like, by the hour. This is breakfast. It's already made. You just kind of heat it up. There's this lunch. This is the snack. This is what time to do this as I get the whole breakdown. No, man, I had a blast. You know, I think the key, here's the key. I figured, I don't know if I figured this out, but I feel like this is the key. The key with little kids, Justin, I think he might have taught me this. I heard him say this once, is you get him really tired. You exhaust the hell out of him. Yeah, yeah. That's the key. Outside, outside. Like, run him. So I came up with this game. That son's draining, too. Oh, bro. So my three-year-old is, I mean, he's got so much energy. So we came up with this game. We have this long, like, hallway area where he runs as fast as he can. And I, you know, I'm 45. I ain't running after my three-year-old. So the game is, I'm like, how do I hack this? The game is, I'm a zombie, so I go hella slow. So I don't have to exert much energy. He runs away and he turns around and runs by me and I pretend to grab him and miss. And it's over and over. So I take maybe three steps. Every time he does that. And he goes back. And just flaps, dude. And back and forth. Nice figured it out, man. Until he's like, you know, doing this. And then he goes, can we, can we go play garbage trucks? And I'm like, sure, because I'm always tired. Oh, it's the key right there. No, that's it. Get him tired. I seriously think that was like one of my favorite things about living out by the ocean was the beach, bro. Getting him out in the sun and the, and the sand is so hard for the little feet to walk in. So they fucking, they, so they can't even go that fast. They're already in balance. So yeah, they can run as fast as they want. They ain't moving very quick. Yeah. Push them over a little bit. Dude, oh, yeah. It's exhausting. I mean, you just dig a hole for hours. Yes. I think the hole, there's nothing going on in the hole. I think the beach is the greatest kid hack ever. It is. They can't, there's, their little legs and feet can't move very fast in that sand. They're not getting away. Yeah. So you can, I sit there, crack a beer, put my music on, something like that. Barium. Throw, throw the ball, like, throw the ball in ten yards. You'll say it takes them 15 minutes to go. Yeah, that's the best. Struggling. It's so true, bro. It's so true. They feel so good. Oh, yeah. By one o'clock, he's like, I'm done. Oh, dude, I put my kid to bed and just laid him down. Five minutes he was out. I was like, this is. I had them like, go find like sand crabs, give me like 20 sand crabs. And then take them forever. Yeah. This would keep him busy. It was a good time. But it's nice. I got to spend great time. And then my little, my little daughter at one point, my son was, so my son is like, I told you guys, he's in the garbage trucks. So he has five now. Five big ass garbage trucks. He loves them. It's like a team. He lines them up. So he'll play in his room by himself for a good 20 to 30 minutes, which isn't bad for a three year old, play by himself. So being there by himself, I woke up my, my, my one of my 15 month old from her nap, brought her downstairs. And Jessica is always saying to me, she's always saying, just try to sit still because I don't do that very well either. Just try to sit still. So I said, you know, I'm gonna do that. So I took my daughter, we sat down in the chair and it's like a little rocking chair. So it kind of does this a little bit. And we just sat there for 20 minutes. And for 20 minutes, she just sat there and everyone's supposed to look up at me and then look straight ahead. I'm like, this is so nice. Yeah, I didn't know you could do that. I thought I had to like keep her entertained, you know? Just chill. I can almost close my eyes here. It should be fine. Dude, it's funny. This is the first time. So we had Ethan stay at the house by himself. Oh yeah. I meant to ask him. It was, yeah, for how long? He's 13. I mean, he's almost 14. He's, he stayed just one night overnight, all by himself at the house. And it's so funny because... You mean you spent the night somewhere else? We were, we went to sanctuary. And this was like a makeup thing for the Valentine's. And we were like trying to do something for that. So we just decided to go. And normally like the kids, like, we can easily pawn them off on like one of their friends or somebody or my parents or whoever. And Ethan was just begging and pleading. He's like, I just want to stay at the house. Like all my friends are busy doing stuff. I just want to do my thing and just hang out. And he's really creative with what he makes. Like he made himself like this crazy, like full on dinner. Like he sauteed stuff. Are you kidding me? He's cracking eggs. He's scrambling. He's like making, I don't know. That's so great. It's great. Like it's totally not me. You know, it's like 100% like Courtney. But he's like really into experimenting in the kitchen and like making all these things. And so he's like taking pictures and showing us all these like extravagant meals he's making for himself and, you know, doing his thing. Of course, the one snafu is like he he wakes up in the morning, he had a tick because the dog's like. So the boy mariner goes out. He always has ticks on him. And we're just constantly pulling him off. It's really bad. Like it's got worse since I've lived there and we're trying to figure it out. Like how the hell can we get really early? Is there, I think there is there like a. Do they exterminate that? What do you do? I think there's actually a pill or a shampoo. They could take that with it will repel the ticks to where they don't want to get into. Yeah, there's there's some of that from. Yeah, we go to the vet and they could take they could take medication where they don't like pick them up quite as much, but it's still happening. And he so he woke up. He had one lip bit him right in the belly button. And so he's like freaking out for like, it's all right. Just take, you know, tweezers. And so he got got it before the head buried itself in. And so he was fine. If you get it like right away, like. Have you ever got to worry about? Yeah. Did you ever do you ever see did you get the bullseye on it? No, I never got that, thankfully, because that's like one of those where you're like, you got to go get tested. So I know somebody. I'll just say that. But I know somebody who got bit by a tick, got the bullseye. And years later, talk told me about it. And I said, you know that that means that you might have got Lyme or got tested and they don't have Lyme, but they had it, their body fought it off. Did you know that? Oh, did you know you can get tested and they could see that? Oh, at one point, it looks like your body fought it off. Oh, I didn't know that. No, I didn't know that either. I have there's someone close, not close to me, but someone who's related to me who has Lyme. I don't do you guys know anybody with Lyme? I mean, I had it before, but the side of the symptoms. Oh, yeah, like we'd have to train crazy. Every time she'd come in and like all of a sudden, and she looked normal and then mid session, she looked like super fatigued and like laid down. Yeah, it's got to stop. So I know somebody who I think I told you guys she made her depressed, anxious and then ravenous hunger. Yeah, like she never could get full. And they just like bombard them with antibiotics. And that's it, right? That's like the only protocol. Nothing she did would work on her. And but ravenous hunger to the point where she said, she said, Sal, she goes, it's not like when you're starving. She's like, it's like a hunger I've never had before. And I can't get unquenchable. Yeah, and I can't get full. Oh, she's described that to me too. Oh, really? That's weird. Yeah, same thing. That's weird. It is weird, huh? Hey, speaking of food, you guys see Japan's Uber Eats. I don't know what it's called, but they they're going to be the first to introduce the AI robots to bring it to you. Really? Pull it up. Go go Japan Uber Eats robots. So you order it and then a robot brings you the food. Yeah, I mean, if I understood it correctly, that's what it is. They're already doing that on campuses and stuff. That's I told you. Well, that's where like, yeah, yeah, like drives up. I think so. Yeah, I think that's how. Yeah, I think it's all the heck. Yeah, autonomous, right? So there's no no humans involved. And then you have to have a code or something, probably. I don't. Yeah, I don't know the logistics of how the how the customer buys what that. I just saw the article. Oh, cool. And yeah, I've seen that. I've seen these at the kind of looks like that little that little car in Star Wars. Yeah, I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, that looks like a like a cooler or something that's just got wheels. Here's my here's what I so I just foresee drones and vehicles like that getting hijacked like crazy by people. They will. Well, that's why it works in Japan. Nobody would do that. They're crying. They're so low. Yeah. But you imagine that in San Francisco. Yeah, good luck with that one. I mean, I bet in a lot of a lot of cities, though, it would work fine. Obviously not in San Francisco, you know, where it's riddled. But I bet like small town places where everybody knows everybody. Like you like if I feel like sure, you know what I'm saying? You're in a small like I grew up in a small town where if like if somebody was jacking the Uber Eats, we'd figure out who it was that the town figured out. You know what I'm saying? There's the drone delivery things getting pretty close to. Oh, yeah, I saw. I don't know if it's true or not because it was it was a picture, but it was Amazon had a blimp and then they were like sending off. Yes, yes, from the blimp. Yes, OK. Yeah, because I was like, oh, that would make sense. We're almost through the hub up there. So when I order on Amazon, oftentimes I could get I could order something today and get it overnight. In other words, it'll be here like at midnight or something. They'll drop it off my door. We're almost we're getting close to the point where you'll buy something within two hours. It'll just fly it to your house. Isn't that doesn't that just scream what a problem we have? Yes. Like and and how effective. Remember we talked about this on air when we talk about the whole single button thing and you were talking about. Yeah, yeah, we did. That was how much of an impact. Oh, and that the fact that something instead of two days getting to you could be within two hours could probably make a difference of maybe millions or billions of dollars for for Amazon. That's just wild to me. It just shows you how much we just impulse buy. Yes, you know, just totally completely driven by impulse. It's like what would you need from Amazon that you would need in an hour? This one's interesting to me. The doesn't it seem like the quality is going way down because they're out competing a lot of these. They're basically cloning a lot of products. Yeah, it just seems like you're getting shitty products versions of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you still you I mean, you can still find quality. I mean, it doesn't in a in a in a in a crazy environment as far economic environment that we're in right now. It doesn't matter because people need to save the money. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I think I think you would probably get more people than not would say, hey, I'll take a cheaper, crappier version for a fraction of the price than better quality for having to pay 10 times the price. Yeah, my cousin was saying just speaking along these lines because I know when I when I order like DoorDash or Uber Eats or whatever, it typically somebody worse English is their second language. So it's giving them an opportunity, right? It's a job. They're making money. I like it. Give, you know, give them a nice tip if they do a good job. The whole deal, but that's going to be gone. That job will be gone very soon, very soon. It's going to be automated cars and that's not going to exist. And I was talking to my cousin about this and he says, it's really crazy. He's in the tech space. He goes, all the white collar jobs are getting replaced. He goes, I know he goes and now and he also works with managing people's money. He says, I have plumbers now that are making more than lawyers that I work with. Yeah, we predicted that. Remember, we said that we said the plumbers, electricians, like, you know, speaking of like those types of jobs, like the contractors, I sent over to you guys. I think Justin said he saw, I don't know if you saw it or not, but we're, and we've been on this like kick talking about AR, VR, like competitions or that. And the AR for contractors, I thought was so cool. Oh, I saw that. So cool. I showed my dad. Really smart. So my dad's worked in construction his entire life and I showed him that and he was blown away. Yes. So literally what it is is you walk through the 3D. You wear the AR, you go up to a, what's that thing called? QR code. You get the QR code and then the pulls up the plans as if the building is in front of you. Yeah, you're walking inside it now. So now you can see where the two by fours go, where the wiring go, and you could just place brilliant. I mean, so brilliant that you could be somebody who doesn't have the skill that well. And I imagine somebody like, like imagine, like you and I, right? Definitely could like, can barely do anything, right? Bare to screw in a light bulb. But imagine if we had these goggles and you wanted to build a, you know, a shed in your backyard. Like I would do it now. If I had something I could put it on there and it's like, and it has, oh, two by four, the two everything all organized virtually for you like that. We're, I don't know if I'd still do it, but you're right. That's funny, saying that's the next step. That is, that is though, how it's going to be like that. I was, because I was kind of like laughing to myself because Courtney's trying really hard to be this like handy, like, like fix things up around the house and like do these things like she's. She's trying to step in your chair, right? And so I'm like, okay, like this is fun to watch. But it's like, you know, sometimes it works out, but she's been just using YouTube, you know? And I'm like, of course, you know, then they're kind of walking them through. But then it doesn't always like work out the way you hope. And then if you don't know how to troubleshoot, it's you're kind of fucked, you know, at a certain point. But I was like, wow, this got her a lot further from having no experience. Oh, I mean, that's how I do it. Now you get the AR. It's going to be, it's going to be YouTube. Everything, YouTube, everything. And that's what this is the next level to that. It's like, not now they'll be like, I'll show you. Yeah, there'll be an AR version of that. Imagine that you put the piece of wood in front and the IR will show you cut here. Yes. Measure here. Here's where the screw goes. Exactly. I know. I mean, it's that I mean, it might get someone like me to do that. It was that it was that bulletproof. I would probably do it. You know what Jessica does is she doesn't do the the handy stuff, but she the way she gets me to do it is she starts, she starts it. Yeah. So like something will come in. She'll order something. Yeah, she'll order something. The dam's on distress. No, no, this is what she does. She'll order something from Amazon that needs to be put together. And I'm and I look at it and I'll, you know, I'll do it maybe tomorrow or the day after whatever. She'll open it and do like the first three steps and then leave it. Like, OK, I guess I got to put it together now. It's such a girl, I think. Totally. I know. I'm terrible at that stuff. Anyway, I found some interesting studies on red light therapy and eyesight. So, you know, we have the Juve light. Yeah. And it's bright red light. And sometimes people are like, should I look at it? Do I not look at it? I asked about it. It's good for your eyes. It's it's yes. It's actually good for you. Bro, I pulled up studies on. I mean, there's lots of studies on red light therapy. And I'm going to I'm going to read some to you and your eyes. So doesn't it doesn't seem like that's that can't be the case because any other light that you just stare directly into is not going to be helpful. Well, I think if you close your eyes, you're still going to get because your eyelids are so thin, you're still going to get so the brightness might be an issue. Right. But if you close your eyes and stand in front of it, you're going to get improvements. And it says here studies have shown that it helps with retinal inflammation, diabetic retinopathy. So people who have diabetes-induced inflammation of the rental vessels down regulates the expression of genes and fibroblast cells that are responsible for cell death, stress response, it boosts nitric oxide. And then it's also been shown, I found a study that showed that it helped with nearsightedness. Really? People actually improved their vision. That's wild. By using red light. It helps with eye floaters. Do you guys have eye floaters? You ever do that? We do sometimes. Yeah, eye floaters. You know, when you close your eyes or whatever and it looks like, or you're looking at something, it looks like something's slowing around. It's like gel from the back of your eye socket. You ever seen that? The little squigglies comes. You don't have those? No, I think so. You never had one? Really? Not that I'm, not that I'm. They look like little parasites just floating around. It's like, no. You're scary. You never had that when you look at something bright and it looks like something's going kind of floating by? No? Anyway. Ethan, as was recently, he hit his, I think he hit his head and, you know, anyway, they checked him out and he's OK. Oh, yeah. Well, anyway, it's got a lot of helps with lazy eye. I don't know that. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's wild. I mean, I mean, it makes sense, right? If it boosts, if it helps mitochondrial health, the hub of all cells, cells are, we're all made up of cells. That's why it's like kind of obvious, right? It's like it's pretty much good for everything. Yeah. So it's, so I'm, so I've noticed myself, my eyesight's starting to slowly get a little worse. Yeah. Like if I look at my phone or something up close for too long and then I look up, it takes me a second to adjust or like my ability to switch from dark to bright takes a second to adjust. Dude, reading anything for me that's like is more than an arm length distance away. Really? Arm length is not good. It's all blurry. I'm pretty good typically with things that are far away because I got LASIK eye surgery like 20 years ago and it's still stuck. But now I'm noticing things up close. I used to be super good with things up close. Now I'm doing this thing. When I'm looking at like. I might be the dork that starts wearing glasses. Yeah. I'm too scared of lasers. They make glasses cool. I remember when I wanted to wear glasses at that point. Glasses are cool now. You still call people glasses dorks? Dude, I'm a freaking nerd. Such a bully, bro. Like they're, they're, bro, it's like fashionable to wear glasses, not even need them these days. Do people wear them all the time? All the time. Prescription all the time. They don't even need nothing. They're just, yeah, but I'm not like a poser. Yeah. No, you need them. Well, yeah, if you need them, it's good. Yeah, you need them. Hey, why don't you go old school and get a monocle? You like the big, get the thick ones, you know, the big old frame ones. I would do Buddy Holly, you know, those staggle, blocky ones. Those are coming back. Who are those hockey brothers? There's like a picture of them being beat up and shit and wore the. Yeah, that's the only time I think I've seen them. They make, they make like some Tom Ford's that are like that, that are like real thick old school looking ones like that. Oh, dude, I did a, I did another, I don't know if you, I guess you call it a tweet still even though it's called X in that Twitter. I did a tweet that was very controversial again. I didn't realize. What'd you do this time? So you know what I mean? Guns and babies is a no-no. We figured that one out. Guns and babies are a no-no. Cleaning my gun with my son in my lap, that apparently triggered a bunch of people. Oh, wow. So here's what I wrote. Now that I'm gonna read it, now it sounds pretty bad. But here's what I wrote. Now what I did is I did, I posted ghost. I don't even read comments anymore. It's a good idea. And I leave. So I come back. It's like crop dusting. She only moved. It's exactly what I was doing. It's like crop dusting. There you go. Yeah, fart, fart and walk away. It's not for everybody. So what I came- Some people enjoy it. I came back. Listen, I came back like hours later, 30,000 views, like a bunch of shares and a lot of people were like pissed off. So here's what I wrote. Okay. I didn't hear it. It says, and now this is not, all right, I'm not gonna defend it. I'm just gonna say it. It literally says tattoos and body modifications are an easy way to tell. Oh wow. If someone has experienced a lot of trauma. Oh wow. And now I'm not judging anything. I didn't say it was good or bad or anything like that. Of course. Oh boy, people get really mad. Of course you're gonna get mad. And I was referring to data. I had just read some study on, the reason why I posted it is I read this article on body modifications. By the way, there's a spectrum. So if you're like one tattoo versus like covered in them or you know, whatever. By the way, also here's what I love. Defensive people are so ridiculous. I trigger people. This is the comment they put. Yeah, but so is being obsessed about the gym. Like, yes. Yes. That also shows that you probably do some trauma. Oh yeah. So is steroids. Yeah, yeah. Body modifications that also encompasses people that do extreme things to their body, including taking performance enhancing drugs. That all qualifies. But it's a spectrum. It's definitely in the data shows that the more you're on this side, the more likely you probably have to use nipple piercings. Nipple piercings are just fraud. Well, and the key there, they're the most important part. A couple of people are like, what about your co-host? I'm like, ask them yourself. They'll tell you. Yeah. I wouldn't deny it any more trauma. Trauma city. Trauma city. Over here on my ribs, dude. Yeah, people got really... It's a real deal. There's some cathartic about the pain too. That's all part of the process, right? It's like, yeah, you kind of are drawn to that. And then football, same thing, heavy metal. All of that is some kind of angst that I have. I mean, I'm not denying that there's probably some subconscious, deep-rooted, traumatic reasoning behind all of mine. But for me, it was like, cool. Sleeve tattoos became a cool thing. I didn't do it for as long as I did because I wasn't sure if I was gonna be employed by somebody else when I made a lot of money. I had enough money that I could afford to have a tattoo artist come to my house every single day for an entire year in my house. Is that what you do? It was a big flex. It was like a flex for me. I don't know if somebody came to your house. Every day, for every Sunday, I had them all day at my house. And if I wasn't getting tattooed, one of my friends were getting tattooed for a whole year. And we went, yeah, football run-in. We weren't friends there and I would have been over. Yeah, that was, so for me, it was like this big flex. Well, this is what it was about. Well, so the thing about this is, because it wasn't a judgment. I didn't say it's good or bad. But here's the thing about trauma, which is true. By the way, there's big trauma, little trauma. Everybody's had some, one or the other or both or whatever. But the truth is trauma also can lead to tremendous growth. Some of the most growth-minded, wise people you'll ever find are people who experienced the most trauma. So it's not a judge. It wasn't a judgment. It didn't mean to be a judge. I mean, I think it's funny for someone to get defensive about that they've been through a lot. I wear it as a badge of honor, dude. It's like, yeah, I went through a bunch of shit. You know what I'm saying? I think the idea to get defensive about that is interesting. To me, that means that you probably- It means rebellious. That was definitely a part of my motivation. It was just like, I just didn't get it, that people had issues with it. So there's that, but- But again, also under body modifications is the category of people who do extreme things to their bodies that don't have nothing to do with tattoos, like working out like crazy, taking tons of supplements, being on steroids, like all the stuff that we see in our space also tied to trauma. Once Dashboard Confessional, I saw those guys come out, I was like, I'm done getting tattoos, ruined it for me. Why? Guys, dude, they're just playing like this, like sappy, lame, love pop songs with like fully tatted neck tats and everything. And I was just like- It's come full circle now, right? Like now, like your kids, you guys, is it, because you're getting close at age where people probably talk to you. I wonder if it's not popular anymore. Yeah, I don't think it's popular to get tatted up anymore, right? I see it's kind of, once we did the whole face thing, that was like the full street. They went too far. Yeah, and then now it's kind of going back the other way where it's like a cool flex to not have tattoos, I think. I don't know. All the mumble wrappers ruined it, I guess. Maybe, you know, speaking of stuff like this and image and all that stuff, you made a comment the other day with our editors. They now put your thumbnail, picture of you on a couple of our videos. Just to test it. We got to look and see what the performance looks like. So Justin made a comment, what's this called? You're like, oh, I see you never put my face on the thumbnail. But, hey, what's wrong with him? He's farting, that's why, you see? He's always got weird, yeah. No, and just need a pose for the camera for a while. Again, one of the drawbacks is sitting on this side, apparently. Bad lighting. Yeah, and looking, I don't look this way, I'm looking this way. I'm looking at the one, the latest one with your face on it. This is your camera. And it's crushing. They don't want to like flip it. This is your camera. No, that's you right there, bro. This is you. Yeah, I don't know. I guess whatever excuse they're throwing out, now they're like, oh no, let's put them out there. No. They know that Adam and I are insecure. You know what I mean? No, they know I don't care. We got to split the time between Adam and I. No, I'm convinced there's nothing to do with the looks and everything to do with like, liked or hated. And since these platforms are built on controversy, having one of our hated faces is a better strategy. A better controversial pull. Yes. You'll get the ones that support like, oh, Team South. Team South. Team South. Everybody's like, Justin? Yeah, everybody's like, let's go. Yeah, it was all neutral. Like, I had to say. I'm over here like Dr. Pepper. No, no, no, no. Your pizza. Get out of here. Get out of here. I was going to ask you your opinion, Justin. You watched, I sent you that spiritual leader girl, Teal Swan. Yeah. And you watched the documentary on that. Yeah, you wanted me to do a little investigation. OK, so I've seen her clips on, you know, on social media. And she sounds. She's a huge following. She sounds brilliant on some of her stuff. Some of her stuff. I heard her talk a lot. She's like, from the little bit, and I want to hear your opinion, because you actually did a deep dive. But from the outside looking in, she's like a smart, good-looking twin flames. Mm-hmm. That's the vibe I got. She's good looking. Smart, good-looking twin flames. Plains. Because those guys, I can't believe those guys had this. She's on the spiritualism. She's smart on a realm. That's what I said. Smart, good-looking. A smart, good-looking version of them. You got a deep-packed Chopra. You got, like, a lot of these sort of people that are speaking a lot of spiritualism. There's kind of people that float on the fringe of, like, I don't want to be part of an organized religion, but I like... But they play all the religion. Yeah, like the universe. They play by all the religion of a playbook, you know. Right. And so what was interesting is, because you even mentioned, like, her past story of, like, trauma and everything was, like, kind of the compelling... It's not just that. Peace, right? It's not just that. So this is what blew me... So I've seen her clips, and I've watched them and listened to them, and these are short clips. And a lot of what she said, I'm like, wow, that's incredibly insightful. That sounds very wise. Like, that's very interesting. And so then I saw... I don't remember where I saw this, but I saw the story on her in the... Was it the 80s? It might have been the 80s or 90s. There was this, like, string... There was this hype and hysteria around satanic cults. Yeah. She was... It was Luria's social contagion. Yes. She was one of the children who apparently talked to this therapist that the therapist... There was this famous therapist that came out that said, all these kids were ritualistically abused by satanic cults. She was one of them. And now she's the spiritual leader. And she still talks about it. How she survived... Allegedly. Yes, yes. Because there's no proof. Right. So this is where you kind of get into the, oh, well, what did she say that's really, like, legitimately real and what's not real? It's tough to decipher. And so you start kind of, like, getting examples of that when people question her. And, well, I'm glad... So I did do some, I guess, I picked up on some of her content that was, like, the fringed, or the readily accessible stuff that, like, does, she sounds very articulate and has really good points that she brings up to kind of help people find their authentic self. And, you know, it's all, like, real big, like, self-empowerment, self-reflection, like, face-your-trauma kind of stuff, right? Which is a lot of that whole sphere. They all deal with that. But, I mean, she doesn't have, like, a psychological background in any kind of, like, education. No, no formal education. No formal education. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of trauma and abuse and things, like, she's gone up and, like, sort of self-taught how to overcome these things and is trying to kind of convey that to... But she's got, like, these desperate people. Followers. Like, really, like, entrenched followers, like, very, like, because they all, it becomes, like, it's a welcoming place of family. And so this is where, this is where, like, the culty stuff, like, community, self-awareness, self-improvement, you do that formula right there. I don't care if you're religious, non-religious, what it is, and you're going to get results. People are suffering. People that decide that they have trauma issues and they decided to wake up, first of all, self-awareness, and then they decided to put the work in, improve themselves, we'll see positive results, and then, if you pair that with a community of other people that are going through it, too, if that's all I saw, I'd be, like, applauding, and I'd be, like, you know, yes, great, like, because you're leading people towards, you know, self-improvement and being able to kind of tackle a lot of these things. But then, you watch, like, this documentary, The Deep End, I believe it's called, and they get into the inner circle part of it. So she does retreats and the things where they spend, like, a couple grand to go to these retreats. And it's more intensive, right? And so this gets into the dealing with the facing the trauma stuff. And so to be able to face it, I mean, there was some real controversial techniques and things used that I observed, you know, like, I guess, what do you call it? Do you call it waterboarding when somebody holds you down in the water, they come back up to get a breath and you push them back down? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, they waterboard this poor lady who, and again, this is kind of where you go look and see how much of this was, you know, portrayed in a certain way because of the person editing it. So there was, like, parts that were filmed earlier that they kind of smashed in to make it look a little bit more intense, but still happen, okay? This still happened, this poor lady was questioning her and she was just like, you know, had issues with the fact that she's not getting better. None of this is making her a better person. Like, she's just getting further down the spiral of her depression and suicidal thoughts and it's just, it's getting worse. And so, and her response and reaction to that was horrendous. Like, literally gave her nothing in terms of, like, good advice after that and waited her out and then took her through this intensive, like, waterboarding treatment to then finally get her to submit to her, you know, her methodology and like, so anyway, you started to see signs of anybody that had any kind of question of her, who would be a figure of somebody who she looks at as another authority that is like, somebody is her mentor. Why do I need a mentor? You know, it's just like, it's a self-assumed divinity. Like, you start really getting into it and it's like this, like, she has the answer for everything until she does it and then it's all fucked. Interesting, yeah. Yeah, because like I said, I saw her clips and I'm like, whoa, this is interesting. And I'm like, I want to send it to the best cult. Buyer beware, dude. The best cult sleuth I've ever heard. Yeah, well also, she's been married five times and they've all ended like, like. Really? Yeah, so it's like, and then, but just quick, the dole out advice and then also, I mean, she's removing people from their families, like in the inner circle part of it. So it's like, how many times are you allowed to be married before? That's like a massive red flag. Oh, God. Like what do you get? You get one mulligan. I feel like everybody deserves one mulligan. Yeah, everybody deserves like, oh, I was really young. I didn't know what I'm doing. Okay, mulligan one, that's fine. Two, three, when is it like, you got a huge problem. Hey man, it's probably you. Well, yeah, there's one common denominator here. You are the only common denominator. I would say probably three. I feel like three is really good. If you get married a third, like if you get divorced three times, like all right, you probably. Yeah, especially if it's in as you, because I mean, even two times would be tough. Especially depending on how old you are too, right? Like if you're getting, if you're still getting divorced into your late thirties, forties into fifties, like man, you've got some serious shit you got to deal with. Like then you can't. Even if it just means that your problem is you've just picked the wrong person. Maybe you're not doing anything wrong other than allowing yourself to be with people who will treat you. Right, right. You're attracting the wrong person for you. Do you know what's the most, do you guys know anybody's been married like tons of times? My dad, dude. My stepdad, he's five. Five times? Yeah, he's five right. Let me do that. Hold on. Yeah, he's on number five. Not number five. That's the most I know. I know somebody's been married five times. Should I call it glutton for punishment? I feel like after a certain point, I would. I mean, my mom's on three. My stepdad's five. I mean, that's like. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's like. You're not very good at this. Yeah, I told Jessica, if we don't work, like I'll never get married. Like why would you keep? Yeah, I think I feel like that too. I feel like why? Why at that point? You know what I'm saying? Like why would why do that if you're already messing up that many times? I become a monk or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, just go in the opposite direction. You gotta know about that. Completely, I'm done. That's a little too. Yeah, so anyway, like I, she's in the wellness space like technically and is like people are fanatically following her. I saw I'm sure I'm gonna get hate for even bringing this up, but of course you will. It's just like it's a reality to drink the Kool-Aid already. Yeah, I definitely not drink the Kool-Aid. You'll have to be careful with this kind of stuff. But you know, here's the thing though that I've noticed with a lot of these very popular people. I felt like this about, I can't believe I forgot his name. Most Googled man ever. Oh, Andrew Tate. Okay. This time I felt about Andrew Tate as well. Is that they can say a lot of things that are true. So people get mad because they're like, oh, but this is true and this is true. And they did this. We're not discounting that. Yes. And they're gonna end up helping a lot of people. Yes. So the most effective people. That's why they're so entrenched. That's right. In this situation, they have a lot of truth. That's one of the reasons why they get so popular. Yeah, yeah. No, there's no doubt. They resonate, you know. No, no, I agree. Yeah, speaking of resonating, Justin. The C-Max, Selenq, peptide combo. Amazing, right? Wow. Wow. It's my, it's my jam. Wow. I've been on it for the last, I don't know, two months. So you did C-Max? Yes. Okay, Selenq is another one that is, so C-Max has properties that are more wakefulness. So like, wake you up. Selenq has more enzyolitic effects, kind of anxiety reducing, both new tropics. And combo. You can combo them or alternate days, but it is, I mean. Nasal also, or good as well. They're both nasal sprays. It's like a, Selenq is like a very calm feel good. You guys both got it, but I didn't get it, huh? Yeah. We requested it. You just got to ask. You got to talk to people, dude. Yeah. I see you guys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the dihexa. I mean, I don't know. It's like, it's, I've been trying to find that right combo, especially like for cognitive boost, cause, and just memory recall, but this has been as close as I've got so far. That you, oh, so those three combos together. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah. If you're interested to go to mphormones.com and they'll, they'll set you up and. You know, speaking of cognitive stuff, did you see that the, the official first neuro link procedure has gone through and the, and the persons are like, pull up, Doug, the first head. Yeah, yeah. It's already, it's already gone through. So was this a somebody who was paraplegic? I remember they were going in that direction first. I thought somebody who. So first neuro link patient who had a chip and planted in their brain a few weeks ago, made a full recovery and can now control computer mouse using only their thoughts. What? Yeah. It sounds like a movie. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like we're helping. We're straight cyborgs now. This wasn't, wasn't lawnmower man like that? Wasn't he like a dude that went into the computer and then he became evil and like tried to like. That's a horror movie, right? Yeah. That's an old one. Yeah. I remember. Wasn't that? So it sounds like a movie. That's like late 80s, early 90s. No. Yes. Yes. That's 90s at the, at the latest. Doug, look at lawnmower man. Let's see what the plot is. I feel like he was a dude that was. Who was the main character? Wasn't he paralyzed? And then he said Johnny Depp. Who's the main guy? Who's the main guy in Val Kilmer, man? Oh, I don't remember. Was it Val Kilmer? I don't remember. Lawnmower man. Yeah. Never heard of it. Oh, really? That was a good movie. Oh, Pierce Brosnan's in it. Oh, Pierce Brosnan. Jeff Fahey? I have no idea who that is. What's the year? 1992. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Look at that. Early 90s, dude. You're not even taking CMACs in Salome. I did take some die hacks though. Oh, OK. What's the, what's, what's the plot? I thought it was a dude that goes into his computer. It is something like that. Right. There's this guy who has Dr. Angelo, a scientist who decides to experiment on this guy and give him greater intelligence. So he gives this guy superhuman abilities, but also increases his aggression, turning him into a man obsessed with evolving into a digital being. Yeah. You know what's crazy about this? Is that we know what's going to happen. We've made movies about it. We know our own psychology. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Frankenstein, like, oh, that's an old one, right? We've created life. But listen though, like, the way this is getting started is, I mean, imagine that was your family member. Who he, that's who the, Neuralink is not. Of course. We jumped to lawn mower, man. Yeah. We jumped to lawn, but that's not why. That's why he's moving around. We can't help it. We've watched too many sci-fi films. I know, but I mean, the idea of this is to take people that, yeah, are disabled. And I mean, imagine if that was your family member. Of course. Who you couldn't even communicate with because they're, they're, they're in abilities of that. And now you put, and now they're actually having conversations. That's what opens the door. Bro. You know, and then the, the monsters come through. God, man, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I just felt, I mean, hopefully that we, I mean, here's what you do. You never know whose, whose hands it can falls in, right? Or just what markets will turn it into. Well, that's, that's interesting. They, so it was success in that it wasn't rejected. And, and they can communicate. Did you pull up the article, Doug, or no? Yeah, I was pulling up the other one. I had, I had them sidetracked. I didn't see that. So, yes. So first, the patient has received Neuralink implant. That's it. That's how you go for us, huh? Well, that's all I got. I mean, no new for me. I mean, all I know right now, I'm, I'm working on an issue for the business. Oh, I have something going on. So what I can find on it is just Elon Musk's announcement of it. He hasn't provided any medical evidence. I guess when they did it on monkeys before it was. No, no, no, it's, it's, it's already been on the person. I have, yeah, yeah. Hold on. I probably have the link in there. So it's definitely, it was first early patient who had a chip implant in their brain a few weeks ago, made a full recovery and can now control a computer mouse using their thoughts. Oh, that's so weird. Yeah. That's so crazy. So it's not full access to the internet yet. I'll send you guys into the YouTube repulsion article. It's just one, one little thing. Yeah. Yeah. Cause full access to the internet would be, we don't know what that would do. Your brain would melt. Or you would just, would you be too much like this alone? Or you prompted it somehow. I mean, you saw the other one too that was on 60 minutes, right? Where the, it was like, it was external. It wasn't implanted in the brain. It was external, like around this ear and it was basically like a, like a Google search, you know, that he was getting. And he was like answering questions. Yeah, yeah. Weird. I know. That is so. I mean, it's, that is a hundred percent coming. I mean, there's no doubt in my, that's going to be so trippy dude. It's weird man. It's a trip to think that it's like, when I was a kid and you saw movies like lawnmower man or things like that in like so far. It's like, yeah, I'm going to be dead for long. Which ones are the most accurate, right? Cause there's so many versions of a lot of these things. Player one. Even like, like cyborg things. I forget the name of the character in Star Wars even, but they had like a guy that was completely like tapped into, you know, being able to talk to all the different to robots and everything and being accessing the internet. I just feel like that's, that's completely going to happen, but like what variation of that is, are we going to see? I mean, I think, I think play, if you guys had a guess, like a future, I think player one, ready player one, did one of the best. Just watch that again with my son. So I mean, it's, I feel like it's the most. They did do a damn good job. Yeah. Look at what it says right there. It says doctors are concerned about Neuralink's first patient. Neuralink is only sharing the bits that they want us to know about. So this is what I was getting at earlier. That he hasn't published any sort of evidence that he just kind of announced it. And the concern is, is that when they were testing it on monkeys, there was a bunch of botched surgeries. Like their brains were swelling. Monkeys were down. Oh, OK. Oh, that sucks. Well, I mean, there's no doubt that it worked. It definitely worked. But speaking of brain swelling, I've been reading a lot about a compound that's been used in food forever. And there's been a lot of studies done on this compound called curcumin that you find in turmeric for inflammation. It's a remarkable compound. Oh, that's in turmeric? Yeah, so turmeric has a component or something called curcumin. Oh, I thought they were independent of each other. No, and for inflammation, in fact, pharma companies have been studying it for a while, trying to figure out why is it so effective. But it's a natural compound. You could supplement with it, but make sure you add a fat because that allows it to get utilized. You need a fat to transport it. Transport it. Yeah. So OrganiFy's Gold Juice is high in this compound. So this is why you drink it before bed. Is there a fat in that? No, so if you make it, yes. I was just going to say use, like I use macadamia nut milk, which is a decent amount of fat. Yeah, okay. Or you could put it, you could use butter, you could use conventional milk. But you want to use the fat. I don't know if I've ever heard them say that, but I didn't know that. Yeah, like a fat soluble vitamin, like vitamin D without a fat, you absorb a lot less of it than if you have it with the fat. Isn't CBD like that too? It has a pair to a fat molecule. Canabinoids are also fat soluble. That's why when you, how do they cook or get the trichones off? Don't they have to use like butter? Or that's old school, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I got an email that I want to read as our shout out. You guys got to hear this. Incredible. What do you want me to say over there? Oh, well, I had something else that was going to be up before you end the show. Yeah, it was, have you heard of comb jellyfish? Comb? Comb. No. So like in the very depths of the ocean, they found these like comb jellyfish, which you've seen before. They have like these sort of spines that are all iridescent like rainbow and they look like little like comb teeth that kind of travel down. And so they have a different like nervous system than most creatures. But the interesting part to them is I believe one of the scientists removed one of their brains when they were like dissecting it. And it regenerated it within three to five days. It's own brains? It's own brain. I wonder if the memories are still there. Yeah, I have no idea. But like this is the only creature they've found that can like, that has that kind of regenerative property to it. It's like, can you imagine if they can figure out what that mechanism is? Isn't it jellyfish that live the longest lives? Live like there's examples of something. A thousand years old, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. I thought the oldest animal ever. Shark. Yeah, was that a shark? No, shark. Shark is, there's like a shark, four hundred something years old. But then I thought I read jellyfish, I believe. Yeah, I think. Like they don't die from age in other words. They only die from age, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm just thinking because of the peptides, the wolverine, you know, it's like, dude, in nature, I mean, look at that. Like that's like something insane if we can figure that out. Like what that would do for... It reminds me of a study I read where they healing, where they wiped the memory of a snail. I'm like, how the hell did they figure that out? Hey, can you remember anything? Oh my God, we done it. Yeah, he forgot everything. How they been moved so far? Let's go put in humans now. That's a dumb experiment. All right, I got to read this email because this is a very incredibly humbling email from one of our listeners. It's a woman, and she wrote, I'm amazed with the information you guys put out there and all the random entertaining conversations. She goes, this is what you've done for me. I'm a single 48-year-old woman living in Australia. I lost my daughter six years ago, very sad. And I moved to the States to give me a new start as I separated from her father. I was depressed, sick with a heart condition. I had no friends. I was in complete isolation except for my interaction at working in a cat. With grief, I gained over 30 pounds. I started training to help myself to fight my demons and it made me not take any depression and anxiety medication. In there, she writes how she went vegan, but then through listening through us, she started eating more eggs and how we saved her essentially saying, she says she was depressed, listening to us help her transition into feeling better. And basically how we helped her so much through this hard time. But I want to show you her before and after. And I'm going to, Doug, I'm going to send this before and after these pictures to you so you could post them. Send to the YouTuber. Because, yeah, you know what? Let me do that. Let me just send it to you guys. They're going to want it anyway, so send it to them. Yeah, you guys got to pull it. Let's check out your phones on this. I'm going to send her before and then I'm going to send you her after. And I'm like unbelievably blown away by the transformation that this woman made through fitness. This is her before you just had her. That's her before. Look at the after which is about to come. I mean, she developed an incredible look. No way. Look at that. Wow. Moly. Isn't that amazing? Wow. That's insane. Yeah. So, but anyway, her name is Raj. And I want to give her a shout out. We really appreciate you saying that to us. And you know, I'm glad we could help you. Wow. That's awesome. Very cool story, dude. Remember to drink Z-biotics before drinking alcohol. Drink responsibly. Look, Z-biotics is a probiotic drink made with genetically modified bacteria. So, you won't find this anywhere else that have been designed to break down acetaldehyde in the gut. What's that? That is one of the negative byproducts of alcohol. So, you drink Z-biotics, drink alcohol, you wake up the next day feeling way better. Go check them out. Go to Zbiotics.com, the Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S.com forward slash mind pump to four. So again, it's Zbiotics.com forward slash mind pump to four. And then use the code mind pump to four for 15% off first time purchasers. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Lauren from Maine. Hey, Lauren. How you doing? How can we help you? We're good. I'm good over here. Nice to see you all. I've never really watched it on the YouTube or wherever it is you do it. I just listen to you podcasts every morning when I walk around my neighborhood for an hour. Thank you. We're way less handsome than we seem. Yeah, as you say. It sounds ugly as you say. It's not. Thank you for your content. All the education that you provide is very attainable for the general public. So when I share it with my family and friends, I'm giving them something that they can listen to for your entertainment and a little bit of learning that isn't me. Yeah, I'm running their ear. So thank you. Thanks, Lauren. Thank you. Nice. All right. So my question has to do with movement patterns and which direction to go to possibly actually resolve the problem. I know enough to stretch myself out, manually treat the symptoms, to resolve it for the moment, but that it appears again. I thought about funding a good manual PT to assess me, actually watching me move and get their input. I have an osteopath who I've seen multiple times. It's usually a yearly visit who resolves it with just a quick treatment, pelvic rotations, ribs are usually out slightly. I've always thought is, can I really do it on my own with symmetry or some of those non-flattering smaller exercises that are not always the big movements that we want to do and entertain ourselves with. We're working out since I was 15 in some capacity. I crossfitted in my 20s for years. I used to teach classes at my local Y prior to having kids. I would teach for six times a week. Now I'm just walking in the mornings and then running your Maths 15 and Maths 15 advanced using the prime one to two times a week. I wish I was a little more consistent. The movements that used to elicit this pain, it used to be a lot more painful. Pain cleans, handstand pushups, movements like that. And now that I'm not crossfitting and doing those big movements, windmills did at the beginning when I started Maths 15 and now as I'm getting stronger, I think they're helping. And then I've been going a little bit heavier on all my lifts and I can just feel a lot of tension, a lot of tightness through this whole right side that I know that it would just be documented as dysfunction. Like something's not working together. It's a little bit weaker or whatnot. I'm also working a little bit on paying more attention to my toes, not crossing my legs, but not a lot of people might pay attention to you, but as we like cross our legs and those inductors get really tight, it seems like it tightens up our toes. So then we're not using those. I'm trying to use my toes as fingers when I'm walking, use my toes when I'm lifting. I used to be one of those girls that would like squat and the toes would come up and it's just really not a good thing. Just really not a good habit because it's here now. So, yeah, oh, sorry. My shoulder blade appears to have some slight wing in the back. Structurally, it's moved and kind of rounded, obviously, and it's dropped. I've noticed that over the years. I move a lot, but I also do sit on and off. I stand and sit in a variety of positions throughout the day. Whenever I've had a massage, she talks a lot about how tight the pecs are. So I'll do the doorway stretch, whatever, breathe, try to get the fascia to release a little bit. I have two little girls. They're two and four. I breastfed them both and carry them because I have little kids. The right side discomfort and tightness feels mostly through the rhomboids and then the hip capsule externally, more so than internally, but if I'm bathing them and I'll go to lean in, I can really feel it internally. And then the sore aspects is really deep, deep core. Maybe the QL and the trap is always overactive. So you guys talk a lot about the movement patterns or improvement patterns and long-time neural networks kind of forming. So I wanted some help. So give me kind of just a short, real short, where is the pain specifically? You got trap. I hear shoulder, shoulder girdle, trap. I hear QL. I hear hip. We get a lot going on. Is this all on the right side? It's all on the right side. And I would say if I'm having pain, I think it's right in my rhomboids, right where my fingers would touch back here between my spine and my shoulder blade, the muscles all through that, tender for no reason. And then the external, the tightness is the external hip capsule. Okay. And it's mostly on the right. And do you have general kind of stiffness and pain anywhere else? Or does it always seem to be just on that right side? It's on the right side. I mean, if I'm like tight or whatnot, I'll again do some breathing, like try to let the fascia release. When did this start becoming a thing where you noticed these right side issues? I noticed them when I was cross-fitting a lot. I'm an OT, so the PTs would just help me release like the ribs or the tightness. And I would again go on my merry way. When did it start becoming more chronic? Well, I'm 37 now. So it's been going on since that's for like 23. So it's just always reappearing, always reappearing all the time. Has it gotten worse? Has it gotten worse over the last, let's say, like four years, three, four years? It was really bad when I was breastfeeding. And if I'll carry the girls in a backpack or something, like it'll get quite irritating. Where do you hold your kids? Right or left? Either way, one year or one year. Okay, well, that's good. Okay, so there could be a couple of things that are happening here. It could be movement pattern issues that are causing compensations up and down. Have you ever had an assessment that showed anything like a bulging disc or a slip disc or any disc issues or herniations? No, but when I did have my first child, the anesthesiologist said something random in the middle of doing what he was doing about scoliosis that had never come up to me in my whole entire life. So it was just a comment. I mean, he said, I didn't know she had scoliosis. And I said, oh, I didn't either. Let's have a baby like going. So I don't know what my spine's doing that no one's ever mentioned. Yeah, you're doing all the right stuff, everything that you mentioned. But there's a few factors that I would look at. One, so that's interesting about scoliosis. It does, when you tend to see pain up and down or just kind of chronic issues that all are on one side, I tend to see things coming from the spine with that, especially if it starts to feel like, you know, kind of burny or achy and you got to press on it to kind of make it go away. And then it kind of does, but then it comes back. So I would look at the spine. I would have either a chiropractor or a specialist look at your spine just to see if there's anything going on there. And the second thing is you do have little kids and we now have really good data that shows that both lack of sleep in general is one of the strongest predictors of injury and or pain. And I know what it's like to have two little kids. Your sleep is probably not great in comparison that maybe how it used to be. And that could also contribute. And I would look at your overall stress bucket, doing lots of correctional exercise on top of workouts. If it's overflowing your stress bucket, it's not going to help. It'll just start to make things worse. Now your workout, it says here you're doing MAPS 15 plus priming twice a week. Is that all you're doing for exercise? And walking, yeah. Okay. So I think that's, I think you're moving in the right direction. I would, I would definitely do a little bit more of the correctional exercise stuff. Yeah. I would like to see her with Prime Pro and either running symmetry or running suspension. I think the combination of focusing primarily on Prime Pro type of movements for correctional work with a little bit of either suspension trainer or symmetry work. And there's probably some stability. Yeah. Until we get to a point where we're seeing like vast improvements in this chronic pain, I would probably move her in that direction than advanced. Because advanced MAPS 15 is barbell compound movements, which I would love to get to that point. But I think we would need to, I would want to reduce you down to unilateral type of work or suspension trainer type of work in combination with Prime Pro. I think the foundation would be Prime Pro. Let's pick two or three of these Prime Pro movements that are showing the greatest return as far as how you feel. And then I would compliment it with some work with either the suspension trainer or unilateral. That's the direction I would go. I agree with that. Also, you said that the windmill was actually starting to make a little bit of progress for you. Did you feel like a little bit more stability? Did it come back and got tighter? Or was it something that was relieving? It's getting better. The more I've done the windmills. So it's been, you know, I wasn't consistent for a while. I've been much more consistent. And now I'm up to like 25, 30 pounds with the windmills. It doesn't bother me versus the beginning when I was doing the windmills, five pounds, whatever. And it was like lit up. Like tender shouldn't be happening. Now I'm in a much better place with that specific movement. And I, from like, from prime, what do I have? I just have prime regular. Is that a thing? Prime pro, yeah. Prime pro would be a little bit more specific. Prime is the actual compass test, which I was going to ask you, when you do the zone one test, do you see a major discrepancy in your left and your right side when you're doing the wall test? Not as much as I would think. I mean, I'm pushing through it. I just like, as uncomfortable as Doug looks like doing the test, like I'm uncomfortable, but it's done. The movements I've been doing are like the active pigeon and your thoracic mode against the doorway thing, which feels, I feel very tight doing that. And then the one where you guys have them prone on prone, obviously on your belly and moving like so. So I want to make sure I'm doing the right movements too, which I know is, it's like I kind of failed all of the zones, like obviously, probably normal. That was the reason why I would, so I want to have Doug send prime pro over to you and we could sit here and guess some movements. I don't think what you're doing is wrong, per se. I'd like to see how you feel after some like active attraction. Have you ever done anything with like Eldowa? Have you heard of Eldowa? I've heard you guys mention it and I'm about on YouTube and I'll get it. That might be really helpful, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to send you a video. So I've worked, I've had experience in a few cases with clients where they have pain and it's all on one side and it goes up and down and we, you know, we, okay, correctional exercise here. Correctional exercise. It's like we're, it's like we're playing the game whack-a-mole at the, you know, at the carnival. Like one pops up and you hit it, another one pops up. And then when I would have them do traction, active type traction, this is before I even knew about Eldowa, but I had worked with a correctional exercise specialist who did some other forms of active traction, all of a sudden they felt much better. Like there was some pressure on some nerves in their spine and that active, you know, traction. So active traction uses your body's fascia and muscles to create traction. It's not passive, like you're hanging it upside down or having someone pull on your neck. So we'll send you that video of Eldowa and you can practice that at home and if you notice immediate relief, like if you do it and then you get out and you're like, oh wow, like I feel a lot better. That would be something I would do on a rate. Frequently use that. Yep, I would do that on a daily basis and that would make the biggest impact because otherwise what we're doing is we're, you know, it's like we're putting out, like we're wafting the smoke away, but we're not getting to the actual fire, which may be coming from your nerves. Yeah, there might be a nerve or two that are slightly impinged or sometimes they're impinged and then it causes this dysfunction on that side. Let's do this then. So Doug, we can send over Prime Pro to you. I also want to put you in the forum. If you go to, I mean, we can send it to you, but there's actually multiple videos with the LDOA. You can literally just go to YouTube and put Mind Pump and LDOA in there, ELDOA. Put that in there and you'll see three, four or five videos that we've done. I'll send you one specific one I want you to do though. And do some of those. But what will really help is getting your feedback and actually seeing some video of you moving in the forum. So like what a lot of people use the private forum for is for us to check form. And so when you do movements like that inside there and then communicate with us, we also have Dr. Brink in there. Dr. Brink is who created Prime and Prime Pro with us. And so he's an incredible resource and movement specialist that between the three of us and him, hopefully can get to the bottom of what will help you the most before we tell you like workout wise. Like that would be my focus right now is getting to the bottom of some of this stuff. Okay. I have one quick question about symmetry. Mm-hmm. You guys seen it when you're doing unilateral movements, have you seen it change any structural things for clients? Like when I look in the mirror and I see my left anterior delt significantly larger than my right and I can tell that this side is dropped. Will symmetry help me? Like. Yeah. Yeah. It'll address that. Yep. Bring it up. We've had people do dexa scans and see pretty significant change. We had a couple dexa scans come in where the person will gain, you know, three pounds of muscle, but it's to the side that was atrophied. So it just balanced out the body. So, yes. The answer is yes. That was always my question of, can this get back in looking like? Yeah, absolutely. No, we can get to that. I think Sal's point, right though, right now we're playing whack-a-mole and let's get to the bottom of what's going on. Bring out the pain and get you stable around there. And I definitely don't think Map 15 Advanced is helping us where we're currently at. I think that's actually working against us right now because you probably do some of these priming movements and mobility stuff that you feel a little bit better than you go back to this like barbell deadlift or squat or press. It's just a louder signal. And then it just, and then it flares back up again, right? Because we're still not, we're not moving correctly yet. So I think focusing on Prime Pro and getting in the forum, talking to Brink and seeing some movements and then like trying to address maybe the Aldela stuff and see if that gives you some relief. Then from there, we can go on to like, okay, let's do symmetry. And this is what we want you to focus on while you do that. Let's get to the bottom of this first. The root cause of this 20-year thing, it needs to be fixed. Yes. Hopefully we can help you, Lauren. Yes. Guys, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. You got it. All right, we'll see you in the forum. Thanks for the forum. Thanks for the forum. Enjoy your day. Bye. Bye. Bye. Yeah, I think the thing that people need to understand is that you're- Hate CrossFit. Yeah, I know. That's, by the way, I don't know that was a verb. Crossfitting? You didn't know that? No, I don't know you said you cross. I crossfitted. I crossfitted. I don't know that. Anyway, when you're trying to teach your body a new movement pattern, it's literally, think of the way you walk right now. Now imagine trying to change the way you walk and then do it to the point where, now that's the new way you walk without thinking about it. That's what you're trying to do by changing movement patterns. It's not just why you're conscious. You have to get to the point where it becomes unconscious. That's why it can take a little while. And that's why it can't be heavy and hard. Imagine trying to walk as fast as you can with a weird pattern that you're not used to. It's not going to work. You want to go faster. You've got to use your old pattern that you used to. So the harder you push yourself into workouts, the more weight you use, the less likely you are to move in with a new pattern. It's just not going to happen. Your body will revert to its old one because it's the one that it's learned. I mean, literally CrossFit's the absolutely worst thing that a person like this could be doing. And it's been going on for how many years? 14 years or something like that? Our next caller is Josiah. Hey, what's up, Josiah? What's up, Josiah? Hey, not much. How are you guys? Good, how are you? Good, it's happening. Good, doing well. I didn't think I'd be nervous, but now I am. Now seeing you guys. How can we help you, man? Yeah, so first of all, I just want to say I'm really thankful for you guys and for everything that you put out. I thought I knew a lot about fitness. I've been working out since I was 18. And a friend of mine turned me on to you guys's podcasts about four years ago. And I feel like my mind was blown by the stuff you guys were teaching like pretty much every day or every week. So just want to say thank you for everything that you guys do and just for how you change or changing the fitness industry and the world. Appreciate that, man. Thank you. Thank you. Sweet, man. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, my question I'll get right to it is I think pretty simple for you guys probably to answer. But anyway, like I said, I've been working out since I was about 18. I just turned 32 in September. So obviously I've heard and I know that part of growing and progressing is in increasing volume. And in the past episode, I heard Sal say something. He mentioned something along the lines of phasing in and out of increased volume. And I never heard anybody talk about that. I've never seen any articles about that or anything. So my question was kind of around that. Like what exactly does that look like and is that how you increase volume as you I guess progress or as you've been lifting for years and years? Because obviously we know that you can't just increase volume, volume, volume. Like otherwise we'd all be lifting thousands of pounds doing thousands of sets per workout session. So I guess my and right now I'm kind of working out more of like a MAPS 15 style. So I guess my question was kind of how would you increase volume in regards to what Sal had said about phasing in and out of it? And also how would you increase volume in a MAPS 15 style program? All right, that's a good question. So you're right, your observation seems obvious, right? But some people don't realize this when they first start working out because for the first, definitely for the first year, sometimes for the first few years, the way you progress is you slowly increase the volume of your training and you continue to progressively get stronger. But after a certain point, you can't move in that direction. You can't keep increasing volume. You're just not going to keep getting indefinitely stronger. It doesn't work that way. So the question is, how do I continue to progress? Am I done progressing after two or three years? Does that mean I'm just maintaining after three years? Well, of course not, right? Of course not. I'm sure you continue to progress afterwards. So it becomes a bit more mysterious in terms of how to get the body to continue to progress after you've been working out now for 12 years. Like how do I do that? Well, now it's much trickier. Okay, so what is phasing in and out of increased volume look like? Well, very plainly, and it make it very simple, if you were to follow MAPS programs, it would naturally happen through following each of the programs. Now all the programs have different varying levels of volume and frequency. And if you were to follow one MAPS program, then follow another MAPS program, follow another one, you're going to naturally do that. But for someone like yourself, as experienced as you are, you want to match the volume and training intensity to your life, really. And you probably have a pretty good idea of what historically has been your upper limit of tolerable volume. Like if I were to ask you, when you're really getting after it, what does it work out look like? And then I'm going to ask you, well, what does it look like when you're really backing off? So now you have kind of your range, and you want to manipulate it based off of your life and how you feel. And really, really do an honest assessment of how you feel. Not, you don't want to make it like, I can handle this, you want to make it more like a, do I have good energy when I'm done with my workout? So I have good energy all day long. Am I crashing at the end of the day? Do I feel excessively sore? Is my sleep being affected? And so this will help gauge the volume and intensity of your workout so that what it'll end up probably looking like is a 10 to 15% of the year will be a sprint, and 85 to 90% of the year will be kind of coasting. That's typically what it looks like when you average it out after you've been working out like yourself for over a decade. I think the biggest key to this is learning how to do the point you made about assessing the rest of your life and stress. Because you could, we could say here and say, oh, here's this methodical approach. This would be a very methodical approach to this. Okay, run maps anabolic, run performance, run aesthetic, which would be like peak volume for like one of the programs, one of the peak volume programs. And then after that, scale back to like a maps 15 and then start the cycle kind of over. Like that would be like this natural progression. But the reality of that is the likelihood that that perfect order of programming by the weeks matches your level of stress, sleep, work stuff, eat nutrition is very unlikely. And so the better approach to that is slowly scale volume so long as all the other things in your life are doing well. And then be aware of those moments in your life when work gets really rough or relationship stuff gets really rough or you're just not hitting your macros consistently. And it's like, okay, that's my sign to pull back on the volume because I'm not feeding myself appropriately. I'm not sleeping appropriately. I'm not checking all those other boxes to put me in like the optimal place to really push and stretch my body. And so unfortunately, it probably is not going to look like that perfect linear, anabolic performance aesthetic and then scale back to 15 unless you just get lucky it lays out that way. So more looks like that's the plan is I'm going to do that, but I'm probably going to have to call an audible somewhere in there because I realized that I'm not in optimal position to be stretching my body and so I'm going to scale back a tiny bit. And it can look, I'm giving you the example of programs. It could look simply as like, you're going through, let's say you did it great through anabolic, you progress great, then you get into performance, you're doing good. And then all of a sudden like in phase three of performance, you know, just sleep is off, nutrition is off or something. And you look at the program and you go, okay, I'm going to pull a set of every exercise off here or instead of going at full intensity on my exercises, I'm going to scale back and do 20 to 30 pounds less on every exercise I know I could do more. Like that's an example of a way to modify that with your life and do this kind of undulating volume throughout the year. Yeah, I totally agree with that protocol. I do think it's helpful to have that in mind in terms of like that step ladder approach, but there's going to be interruptions to that. And that's why we do also have these programs like Mass 15. If that's the case, like, you know, we're going to interrupt it with a program like that. We're going to interrupt it with like a Maps Prime or even like if you're on the road or you're traveling, whatever, we got something like anywhere, we got something like a map suspension or, you know, and the thing is it's like life comes in through that and like how do we navigate through that based off of the stress levels and based off of your environment that it's presenting to you. So I think that's good as like a baseline, but then having, you know, a way to navigate and be flexible with that through other programs that are less volume or convenient in terms of like having the right kind of equipment for you for that moment. Just to say, I noticed too in your question, you had a more specific question regarding like you're going, you're doing six days a week, Mass 15, and you want to reduce back to like three days a week how they look. One of the cool things about Mass 15 is like, you can literally, the days that run consecutively, you can pair them together. So you can literally go from a six day a week program, go to a three day a week program and just put, you know, work out one, work out two together, work out three, work out four together, work out five, work out six together, and you can run it like that. And it's actually one of the lower volume programs and so that's not going to run you like an hour and a half workout, you'll be able to still get it done within probably 50 minutes or so to get those done. And so that's an easy way to scale back the days that you're in the gym to three days by so, and I sometimes will do this like where I put two together, but then I do the other ones half, right? So just, and I do that based off of how I'm feeling and how I slept, how I ate, and it's like, oh, you know what? I got extra time today, I've slept well, I've ate well, I'm going to do the, I'm going to do work out one and work out two together today. And then maybe the next day, if I don't have that next day off, I might go, okay, I'm just going to do the 15 minute workout so you can play with it like that. Josiah, when's the last time you stopped working out for more than a week? For more than a week, maybe. It was like 1984. Yeah, he was even more in that one. Maybe like four or five months ago or something. Yeah, so for someone like you, you're a fitness fanatic, you love it, you're consistent. If the question is, should I do more or less, you're probably going to be better off always going towards less. Now the average person, I'm going to push them to do more because they miss a week or two every month. But someone like yourself, you're so consistent. If the question, if you're asking yourself like, okay, should I do 15 sets or should I do 12 sets or 10 sets? You're probably going to be more right more often or you're going to be right more often, I should say, doing less than doing more. That'll get you better results than the more option. And that seems to be true with just fitness fanatics in general. You've already built the foundation. So yeah, that would make a lot more sense. Yeah, yeah, I definitely noticed that with myself. I feel like similar to like Sal and Adams, you guys' story, like I grew up like skinny kid. I was always like trying to bulk, like put on muscle and stuff. I definitely was in that trap of just always trying to do more and more and more. And yeah, it's crazy, like when I switched, when I, when I started listening to you guys and I switched like a three day a week full body, like I'm a, I'm, I feel like I'm a pretty, I'm pretty good at, you know, when I believe something and like when I listened to you guys, like I knew that there was something different about what you guys are saying than other people. So like it wasn't hard to convince me to do three days, although I did, you know, just the feel of it was weird. But I immediately noticed that like I was making progress and not losing anything by not going to the gym more and even scaling down to less doing like something around like 15 to 20 minutes a day. Like I still feel great and, you know, even, yeah, not make, not losing any progress, which is just like, it's crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. It's definitely mind blowing when you're, you know, you believe that you have to keep doing more. But to be continued, and I get proven, I get proven, you know, with that, that, that lesson keeps getting taught to me even now. So, you know, that's why when I ask myself, I'll try and go towards less versus more. But it's taking me, it's taking me almost 30 years to figure that out. But it's true for fitness and addicts. It's definitely true. Yeah, for sure. So just, I guess to kind of piggyback on that question, going in the opposite direction, if I, if I'm going to continue in, because right now I'm doing, I'm in performance, but I'm doing it in a math 15 style. Because it's kind of really all the time I have in the morning before I go to work. But how would you, how would you increase volume in that case? Or is that, I guess is that necessary or a good idea? I would ask myself, is it necessary, right? Because you don't forget, it sets times weights times reps. So if you're already stronger or doing a couple more reps, you've increased the volume. Right. So if you're, yeah. So like it doesn't always have, I think most people think volume and they think amount of sets that you're going to do in the workout. If you're adding weight to the bar. There's more volume. Yeah, that's more volume. So, I mean, yeah. So if you're, if you're seeing that, you don't necessarily always got to be at, you know, when I was always tracking volume, like this was during my competing days, I was always looking more for not going backwards, right? A lot of times I'd keep my volume about the same, right? I would keep it relatively the same. And as long as I didn't see myself going the other direction, because what I found was when you pulled back at a month, people tend to kind of do that naturally ebb and flow anyways. And so if I was trying to make progress and see my body, my physique progress, it was always just don't go back slide and then slowly just increase. And as long as I was like heading in that direction, I saw this, this progress. And if you're getting stronger in mass performance and you see yourself adding a little bit of, even it's a little bit of weight to the bar, you're adding volume. That's right. So you're progressing in the right direction. You add five pounds. You do one more rep. That's more volume. It's already there. Yeah, that's true. Okay. Yeah. I guess in my head, I'm thinking of when I ask you guys and I'm thinking of volume, I'm thinking of just sets. Like how do I increase sets? Right. Yeah. You guys are right. So sometimes people add sets and because they've jumped too much volume, the weight goes down. They end up with the same volume they did before. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Yep. And just keep in mind what Sal said. I mean, he asked you the right question by like how often you take it in recognizing quickly that you're kind of a fitness fanatic. You're always going to probably do better by doing a little less. And I love to repeat that study that we shared, I don't know, a year or two ago where the two groups that went for like 18 weeks in one group took a week off every three weeks and they saw the same progress as the group that didn't take any days off all the way or any weeks off during that entire 18 weeks. So imagine that every month you could literally afford a week off of training and still progress as much as the guy who... In other words, you're more likely to get away with doing less than you are to do with doing more. Doing more is more dangerous in terms of progress, in terms of hurting your progress when it comes to strength training than doing less is. That's a fact across the board. And it's a hard one for people understand, but it's true. And that that that rains even more true for someone like you. Totally. That's why that asking that question was so important first was like, Okay, who is he? Is he the type of guy who can't stay consistent for longer than a week or two? Well, we're not going to give him that advice. But if he's the type of guy who's like has to think when was the last time I took even a week off. Okay, you're the type of guy that probably needs to go that direction. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Totally makes sense. All right, brother. Thank you guys. All right. You got it, man. Thank you so much for the kind words. Yeah, no problem. Between you guys's podcast and another one I listened to, you guys might know Ken Coleman from like the Dave Ramsey kind of team. You guys are between you and his I made the decision to finally pursue being a trainer. And, you know, I yeah, I've loved this for so long, but there are a lot of I think kind of insecurity reasons that I didn't pursue it when I was younger. But I'm finally going for a now and this is just my day job right here. But I'm working on growing a coaching business. So I'm going to be getting you guys's course. Soon here and stuff. Awesome, dude. Yeah, I love that. Love to hear it, man. Cool. Well, when you do, I can't wait to see you in that forum with the coaches. Yeah, definitely. For sure. I know I was talking with you, Adam, a little bit through DMs and you told me that the price was going to go up and stuff. And I was like, you know, I was a little bit bummed about that, but honestly, I love you guys's content so much. And you guys have done so much for just to finish space. I feel like I don't pay like whatever price it is. Honestly, I don't even care. I appreciate that. I appreciate that, Josiah. Thank you, man. Yeah, no problem. Can I just tell you guys one last thing for all my head about your show? Yeah, I... Every time you guys tease Doug about his age, I just want to cry so you, Adam, like, Doug, I'm so sorry. I feel for you, man. That's all right. Make me cringe and sigh. We only do that because he looks so damn good for it. That's right. It's because he's at a point now out of all of us where if you just meet the four of us and you've never met us before, everybody thinks Doug's the youngest, which is... That hurts my soul. Yeah, yeah. So we've got to get him back somehow. Yeah, yeah. That's our insecurity. All right. Well, I guess it's founded then. You got it, man. All right, Josiah. Thank you. You have a good day today, brother. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. All right. Bye. Yeah, that's an important point to make with strength training. You have more room for less in terms of whether or not it's going to affect your progress negatively than you do with more. Oftentimes, if you're consistent with your workouts, you know, missing some or going less is probably better for you than constantly trying to push more. We really... You really tend to fall in one end of the spectrum or the other. There's very few people that have this... This beautiful balance. Yeah, the beautiful balance. And to your point, I mean, 30 years and you're still learning that lesson. You're still teetering on one side more than the other, right? So most people are like that. They either are the people, the clients, so you can't get them to fucking put 30 days together straight, you know? You have to learn that. So we're not going to give them that advice because I know there's also fitness professionals that hear like, oh my God, Kibb, we were always telling people to do less. So it's like, no, we're not. It's pay attention to who we're telling that to. Exactly. You... We assess what type of person they are and if they are like one of us, fitness fanatics, where they have to think, like when was the last time I actually took a week off? Those are the two biggest hurdles. The first one is overcoming the fact that you can't be consistent and you can't like push yourself to that degree. Right. And once you establish that, you build this base and this foundation that you can work off of. Now that mindset, you're carrying that mindset to a degree where it becomes detrimental. So then you have to learn the other lesson which is to reduce and do the right amount for you to progress. 100%. Our next caller is Gabe from New York. Hey, Gabe, how can we help you? Hey, guys. Pretty surreal to be on here. I had a little hard time with the Zoom, but let me just get right to my question here. So like I put my question on the email, I've noticed that being at such a weight of a 205 at my height being 5'9". Sometimes my mid-back will get tight and then lower starts to hurt doing certain movements. My occasional runs are a problem now too as my shin splints seem to take the brunt of it and occasional knee pain. I also have a major problem squatting anything above 135 and in the past I have done 405. And then after that squat I'm very tight and in pain for the next couple of days. Doing any sort of unilateral movements though like lunges and or Bulgarians have no effect on my problem here and in fact, I can actually load a lot of weight on those movements surprisingly. So basically my question is do I try to adapt to this weight or do I need to drop down and figure something else out? Yeah, you added something else though that I think is good for the context of what you're asking is like I'm 5'9", 205, I grew up a skinny kid and started lifting at 120. So you've went from 120 pounds to 205 pounds on a 5'9". Frame and asking is that just a lot of weight for your frame and can you get to a point where it's just too much weight for a frame? I want to address that, yes. And I battle with this like an exact same story was a skinny kid trying to put weight on and then I finally broke the 200 pounds which is such a big deal took me to almost 30 years. Now I can go all the way up from 230 right now and when I get to that point I can tell that my body is way more concerned I had talked about this all the time like I have a weight I know where I'm the most comfortable. Now I've been more jacked looking at 230 for sure but my weight like where I feel healthy fit joints feel good is like 205. So there's definitely a weight for your frame that your skeletal system was designed to be able to carry in a healthy way and then there's an upper limit to that when you could push those boundaries. Now typically when someone asks that question though it's not because they have too much muscle but rather they're too too much body fat. So whenever someone says I think I'm too heavy for my height you know I always say okay well I'd like to see you at about 10 11% body fat and then see if you still feel that way. Now if you still feel that way okay but in those cases you're talking about extreme pursuits of muscle growth people who've been training for years and years and years who really continue to push that pursuit and kind of push those extremes but for the most part that's not the case usually it's just they're too heavy and it's body fat. Now the other part that you said that I think is important note is that your back hurts when you squat 135. I don't think it's a body weight issue I think there's an imbalance there's a there's a weakness issue there's something happening in your body that's causing you to hurt and it probably has to do with some kind of lateral stability or rotational stability okay. Do you do any movements to strengthen lateral stability? Have you tried doing a windmill? Do you know if you how you feel when you do a windmill for example? Have you tried that? Yes I have actually I had gone through the program of a map symmetry in full and after that I started getting into more movements like the windmill and you know just more just in type movements I guess you could say and windmill I did okay yeah I think I held maybe 15, 20 over my head didn't have too much of a problem doing that I actually purchased maps what was it? maps old-time old-time strength and I started it and I was feeling really good fresh out of a symmetry I felt amazing strongest I've ever been and I think it was the second day I had to put it down I couldn't do it so but I am familiar with the windmill movement my unilateral strength is great from the symmetry it's just some things just tweak it like I said with the squat so what part of old-time strength what exercise was it that bothers you? I think it really I think I really started feeling it when I did I think I was holding the weight over my head okay and it was in your little back it's been yeah lower back mid-back area okay I would start I would start every workout with windmills moving forward two or three sets of windmills start with your no weight too no weight move the weight up slowly moderate intensity I think we're dealing with some lateral stability issues and that's why you feel so strong with unilateral exercises but not so strong when you're doing you know bilateral like you know barbell squat and I would get really good at that it sounds like to me from the outside like that's what's going on I also think that you would only benefit too from doing that also leaning out yeah so doing those doing those movements and doing it in a cut I think do you know what your body fat percentage is sitting at Gabe? I was tested long ago if when I first started lifting at that weight that I put in my email I was tested I was like at think I was at a 10 and a half or 11 in wrestling oh and you're at 120 yeah correct so I was pretty I was very I was very lean I don't even know where those veins went honestly since then um but I uh I have no idea what I would be at now have you been pretty I mean coming and I this is how I was too like I I don't think I went on a cut for 20 years were you like are you the skinny kid who's always been trying to bulk and put size on it so you've never actually run like a true cut I did I did a unhealthy cut years ago before I found you guys before you guys flooded me with all this knowledge I uh I did an unhealthy cut and I dropped down I was at 190 um and I dropped down to 175 and it just all it all came back because you know I I didn't do it the correct way yeah um as of right now I am I'm really pushing it all again um I might my proteins really high my calories did my calories are out of maintenance maybe the slightest deficit I'm out of brown I'm at around 2,300 to 2,500 a day right now at about 190 to 200 grams of protein okay I would yeah I'd like to see get a body fat test and if you're above 13 percent bring it down to like 12-13 percent while while you know pursuing some of that lateral stability and see if that makes a difference yeah and on top of that too like any of the carries are going to be great for reinforcing more strength there and for that lateral suitcase suitcase carries amazing and then you said you had a little bit of difficulty with any overhead lighter weight overhead initially but you know really just take your time slow it down brace and make sure you don't lose that connectivity there when you're bracing so as you're walking and adding movement and that local motion to it adds a bit of the challenge for you but it's great when you go back to bilateral like straightforward type lifts that that lateral stability will really strengthen Gabe do you have a maps prime uh no I do not yeah I'm gonna have Doug send maps prime to you because I'd like for you to do the zone one test I mean I could do all the tests but zone one test and uh and actually look and see like what movements it guides you to do and then start before you do the overhead carries of movements like Justin's talking about is to prime the body and get yourself in a better position I think that's gonna help to protect that low back while you're doing some of the overhead carry stuff so you can get yourself in a better position so we're going to send over prime go through the test uh see and I'm specifically looking at zone one for your before you do overhead carries and stuff and and set yourself up prime prime a little bit before you do that okay cool is that something I do on every workout day yeah every day you can do it all the time so like when it comes to priming movements you know we write them in there that you should do them before your workout but like you can you can't do too much of that stuff that's like you can so when it whatever it guides you to do then do it as much as you possibly but absolutely before you lift because you if you do it and you do it correctly you should see the first time you do it feel a difference that's right you should be able to do a couple of these prime movements for zone one and then go do like an overhead carry which may be bothered you in the past and then all sudden it doesn't and it's because you did a good job of priming beforehand you should feel that instantly and so then just practice that all the time okay and uh one more thing to add to that how do I base my training as of right now if I'm do if I want to do three three full body days a week or kind of an upper lower type thing what's the best way to go about this whilst trying to fix that I think unilateral training I think that worked well for you I would go back to that symmetry yeah I like the idea of priming and doing some of the movements like the overhead carry and stuff just in the suitcase carries that Justin's talking about and then working through symmetry and then also doing this while trying to do a cut I think the combination of all three of those and you should feel a lot better from where you're at right now okay okay yeah so I'm I think today's I think today's day two of being back in the symmetry so we're fresh right we're fresh right into it okay perfect perfect and then prime prime's gonna compliment that so doesn't send that over to you keep it going okay cool well thank you very much guys and uh it's correct it is jelly before peanut butter by the way I had to say that ha ha ha have my guy hold on hold on no that's it no no hold on hold on see you later do you stand when you pee or do you sit on the toilet like Adam does you paint your toenails right now I stand I'm not at the sitting part yeah okay that's all right that's all right you're good thanks man all right thank you very much guys you got it it's like I can't believe we made it we made that a thing you know the whole weight thing you know like we talk about it took me years to get to the point where I could get too heavy at a lean body weight that was and that was just a relentless pursuit of continuing to add try to add lean body mass try to get lean body mass where most people won't get too heavy lean they'll get too heavy because they're too heavy yeah right like it took me a long even now I have to like like really push it for that to happen otherwise my body kind of settles back or you know you're pharmaceutical enhanced right that'll that'll make that happen but typically when someone's like I feel too heavy for my body weight it's because they're they're body fat it's too high yeah I mean it sounds like he hasn't really other than the one bad cut he did hasn't really hasn't really done it he's been in a perma bulk for a long time and sounds like neglecting something I think I literally think prime symmetry work and then reducing body fat dropping down some weight is gonna make a huge difference totally our next caller is Rusty from Ohio what's up Rusty what up Rusty how can we help you hey guys glad to be here just wanted to tell you it's a real privilege to get to talk to you the idea of a guy like me getting access to world-class trainers like you guys is just very rare and I appreciate this means a lot to me nice thanks man I like the world-class compliment I'm gonna put that on my bio thank you Rusty you're welcome so yeah I did also want to thank you that uh because a couple years ago I started training again after a hiatus and I was over 50 and started getting some aches and pains that hit differently than it did when I was younger and I had contemplated quitting and uh thinking maybe I was just too old to start listing again and I got on I did whatever guy my age does I got on YouTube and looked up training after 50 and that's kind of how I found you guys it was one of your clips and somebody had asked that question like how would you train someone over 50 and uh one of you said same way I would train anybody else that have them lift heavy stuff and it was like I needed that permission to do that and I kept going and here we are two years later and I don't hurt anymore as a matter of fact I feel better than I have ever felt ah I love that so thank you that's awesome oh yeah that's awesome bro what can we do for you so um with that in mind my deadlift is has gotten to uh I'm up to like 415 that was with a trap bar max squat 365 375 max but um one of my goals was to be able to bench 100 pound dumbbells by the time I turned 50 which I did accomplish now I'm 51 I thought that would have translated into a bigger barbell bench I thought I should be able to do like 250 300 that is not the case for me I have barely been able to get to 225 like one rep max and I think I only did that like once and I'm just not quite sure like everything else seems so strong but I've just struggled to get north of you know 215 220 on the bench that's interesting so you got you you were able to press 100 pound dumbbells but 200 pound bench press or 215 pound bench press feels heavy that's usually not the case usually I was I was there at one point you did the same yeah yeah this I had this so I was uh I was bigger on the dumbbell press I was never a good barbell bench presser and I really liked the way I felt from dumbbell pressing I saw great gains in my chest I saw that strength enough and then I remember going back to barbell press and it was really discouraging that I couldn't even do 225 but yet I could do 100 pound dumbbells and the in what I have learned since then right and realized is that there's such a skill to barbell bench pressing yeah like if you get really strong doing dumbbell pressing now that there's not a skill at all in dumbbell pressing but you're you're you've become a different skill it is and you're strong like you've definitely if you can do 100 pound dumbbells you are strong your chest is strong then taking that over to a barbell bench press and wanting to see 250 300 pounds like there's there's so much more of a skill into how you set up for the bench press how you lower the bar how you get yourself in the right position how you drive through your legs like and it took a while of consistently lifting barbell bench press for me to start to see those numbers increase the same way my dumbbells did so it's actually not as uncommon as you would think well I mean so oftentimes somebody will get stuck with the bench press then they'll use dumbbells and it'll get them past the sticking point and that's because the dumbbells was addressing a weakness that they had that they couldn't stability issues some of the shoulder joint right so now now that typically that's that's right quite common what you're doing is not as common however all exercises are skills okay so you change the exercise a little bit it's a it's a different skill you have to practice it and change your technique with the barbell you really activate the laughs a lot you stick the chest out real tight you get a lot of leg drive you squeeze the bar you break the bar with your hands you try to break the bar with your hands you tuck the elbows a little bit more with the barbell than you would with the with the dumbbell dumbbells tend to flare out a little a little bit more and then you press up with a more probably tricep involvement with the barbell than you would with the dumbbells in other words I would really look to power lifters for technique on the bench press because they've mastered the skill of the bench press with the barbell getting your upper back more rigid like being able to maintain just that nice natural curve in your back while also being able to drive through the ground with your feet creating more leg drive to create more stability there on the bench increases the amount of force output and to the south's point of gripping the bar even matters and to be able to engage and activate those lats to get involved as well it's really it's about like creating a more stabilized gripping position on the bench so that way you know you're not losing any opportunity there for force output going straight up vertically I think you would absolutely love mass power lift we have I mean we've got Ben Pollock in there with coaching cues and tips on how to increase that so I think that program would be and that's that's a power lifting program you're gonna get it you'll nail it with that it's very hyper focused on the technique that's right would it help to maybe isolate some of those exercises that would increase strength in my lats and try steps even though I'm not doing any isolation exercises really no not necessarily be an official not necessarily it doesn't necessarily mean you have weak lats or a week back what it typically means is you're not stabilizing and activating them in a way that maximizes the technique of the bench press so it's typically not somebody like yourself has been working out right you've been working out now pretty consistently for a couple of years you probably you know you're doing your back workouts right so you're probably okay with that it's really about activation through this this movement like how do I activate my lats to stabilize while I press because don't the lats pull like this is what happens in your mind or with your body while you're trying to do both there is a skill and a technique to it one and once you practice it right and learn it then you see your weight go up in fact a really good powerlifting coach can oftentimes take a lifter and get them to bench press five more pounds right there right in the same session first set yeah yeah I rusty we're going to send mass powerlift to you I want you to run that I guarantee you're going to run that and you're going to come back to us and tell us your your barbell bench press has increased guarantee five percent yeah there's no doubt in my mind I definitely want you to report back yes the way that's programmed a guy that's strong like you already like just watch go through that program follow it to a tee don't go do other shit watch the master classes especially the bench obviously yeah watch all the master classes with Ben Pollock in there you're going to you're going to see an increase in your barbell bench press I guarantee that that's awesome thank you so much yes you got it man so Doug's going to send that over to you and please follow up with us I'd love to hear how you're doing afterwards yeah I definitely will do that I'm really excited because I've never done any of your programs and I'm I'm ready I'm due for a change up yeah all right bro thank you guys have a good day take it easy have you guys ever seen that happen were a strength coach like a powerlifting yes coach will literally yes fix someone's technique that's why it's a skill thing it's a tool I mean I was this so I and I know I'm not normal like most people prefer the barbell bench press but I just found dumbbell pressing was easier or more comfortable I could get in the groove and so I did more of it and so I got really good at it got to a place where I was doing 100 pound dumbbells but then I couldn't even do a 225 bench well yeah struggled with that and it was just the skill of it I just did familiarity it's a skill yeah you just got to get comfortable like knowing that this is like the best position for myself I mean so it's so much technique and skill involved and I think you think we underestimate how much like to your point that a coach could come in and like change your bar grip change your your leg drop everybody thinks that you know everybody knows deadlifting squatting requires a lot of skill and technique every but nobody realized the bench presses up there huge very technical exercise I still if I had to be completely honest with like all my lifts and I think that's an area that I still am just not that proficient I think that there's lots of room for me to be a lot better at that and I've and over years I've tried to get better at it but this was definitely me on the technique of it I mean it reminds me too of like our buddy Paul Fabretz who teaches vertical code right so he's in teaching and he'll take somebody without doing any exercises and get get to the increase by four to five inches yeah that's crazy just technique yeah just technique and so you know this is something that's like that like teaching somebody the technique of a barbell bench press can make a huge difference totally look if you like the show head over to mind pump free.com and check out some of our free fitness guides that can help you with your health and fitness goals you can also find us on Instagram Justin is at mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at mind pump Adam