 All right, welcome back. It's time for our very first hot topic, and we have been joined by Mr. Joe Fermi-Daguru, Chief Strategist, Westphalia Resources, and want to take a look at the mandate given by the President to Nubu, to NEC, to find out ways to cushion the effects of the failed subsidy removal that Nigerians are going through. Good morning to you, Mr. Daguru. Good morning. All right, so Oil Marketers Association have identified with the President on this move to remove the fuel subsidy. In fact, they have indicated interest to donate about 50 to 100 buses, 50-sitter buses to the government with regards to cushioning the effects of the removal of subsidy, and have also invited other corporate organizations to emulate them. How do you see, first of all, this mandate coming from the President at this point in time to NEC? First of all, we have to acknowledge the fact that the President, Mr. Bola Mehtinumbu, has started on a very good note. Let's put it that way. And every effort to ameliorate or to reduce tension and pressure on the people of this country, Nigeria, should be applauded. But you see, people have been hearing a lot about palliatives and measures to support them for a long time. But it seems that the people that are supposed to enjoy these palliative measures call it that way. They've not, in the past, I don't know how this one will work, but in the past, you will see that it's like, it's one-sided. The execution of this program is always the issue. We have lots of ideas, but my concern has been, how will this be executed? No amount of buses do we give that will really touch every commuters in this country. Yes. And I think one thing we have to see is that people are now coming to that fact that if the genuity of removal of subsidy is going to make us have a better living condition in this country, they are going to go for it. The people and the citizens of this country, I mean, they are ready to go along with Mr. President and to see that they enjoy the benefits of this removal. So any movement to reduce tension, like I said, to reduce pressure, to reduce pain will be appreciated. And I think people are seeing it and they want to feel it now. It's enough. We've been talking and at the same time, they want to feel the impact. And by the way, you have to understand that now that they are seeing a sort of communication coming out directly to the people, is helping the martyrs as well. And that's the way I feel. OK, well, there's no longer any need for us to say that is placing the cart before the horse. This thing should have been done before the pronouncement was made because there was time between May 29th and the 30th of June that the subsidy should end. So a lot of people expected the president to say, OK, subsidy will end because it was not covered by the budget on June 30th. But before then, we're going to do X, Y, Z, which is part of, some of these things are part of the things that were supposed to be done. But if he has given marching orders to the neck to fashion out ways in which people will not suffer anymore because of this removal of fuel subsidy, what, in your own opinion, are some of these things that need to be looked into, that need to be addressed, that need to find ways to make sure that they are done in the shortest possible time so that it will alleviate the sufferings of the people? It's one of those things is this. If within May 29th, like you said, you know, there are policies and there are procedures and there are pronouncements as well. Within the few days that it came in, he wanted to, I'm just saying this, I'm not with them there. He wanted to make sure that, look, he promised the people that this would go and he would just make sure that this would begin to fill what he promised. And I think, could you ever, we kind of used to panic buying. Even if you say you are going to increase the VAT, people will start loading their homes with so many things and so I think that is part of it. The government says some state, look at Kora state, so look, there's no point coming in five days a week anymore. Let's try three days a week and they do stay and all these initiatives are beginning to come out and the people are beginning to see that, yes, it seems these people have us in mind this time around. I think whether it was said before May 29th or even after May 29th, you see have some of these said panic buying and these thoughts, but going ahead is the fact that people are now finding PMS, petroleum, you know, the petrol to buy and that there are no cues anymore and they are beginning to even hear some of the effects of this, but I think we need to communicate more. We need to reach out to the people more. It is not just enough to continue to say we want to do this. Like I said, people have had that long time. They want to begin to feel the effects and the effect positively, not the effect of, you know, we want to do it next week. They want to see it done now, but how will it be done now? And those states said, okay, I've increased even salary since January and you know, they go, they said, we've done that, we will do more. Coalers said, we are going to do that. So the more the states, the governors, the local government chairman, they participate. One thing about this issue about this country, sometimes that, you know, I begin to wonder where's the role of the local government? I mean, because the people that we really need, they are the local government that are the worst. So we can continue to just make sure that only the governors, the local governments have to be part of this and they have to, you know, do their beats and they have to come out with their own programs as well. It is not just the federal and the state. The local government have to be part of it. And that is what is missing in the whole communication system. And I think it has to be made so. It has to be done. That has to be reviewed if it is not considered. Indeed, because NEC, you know, comprises of the 36 state governors, the CBN governor and other government officials that may be drafted into it. Now, talking about the effects of the subsidy removal and how to help Nigerians handle it and deal with it, I'm of the opinion that one of the ways to go about it and I'm throwing this at you so that you can agree or disagree with me, that one of the ways of helping Nigerians overcome this, deal with this and appreciate it, is to be seen to be dealing with those who have brought Nigeria to this point, i.e. those who are guilty or found guilty of fraud in the oil and gas sector, those who have been stealing oil, all the people that have been responsible for diverting the palliatives, whatever the amount was, in any way, shape or form, that those people, if Nigerians will see this government present to Nubu, prosecute them, expose them, it will help Nigerians appreciate the efforts in removing this subsidy in the first instance. Do you agree with me or not? Well, partially, let me put it this way. That will not be the first thing he has to do now. I think, you know, don't forget the fact that he's just been there for a couple of days and weeks. So if you have to start running after the corporates or the suspected criminals, you know, then you won't be able to achieve anything. So the first thing is, when this thing is moving on smoothly, you know, we'll begin to look at it, okay? Bring out those who have put us in this mess. It's been for a long time. So, you see, we don't even know the magnitude. We don't even know how, you know, why this crime has been communicated, perpetrated or committed. So the first thing is, get the people the awareness. Get them to be aware that, look, this is the pain you have to go through. It's going to, at the end, these are the things we want to do with it. You know, that should have been part of the program that if this is what we realize, this is what is expected to be realized from this removal of subsidy. We are going to develop this and that and this. People want to know how the money will be spent. And people want to see the money being spent on what you promised that it will be spent on. That, these are the concerns of the people. Then, if you now say, you know, part of it will be, you know, let's get a list of the people. And you probably say, these are the people, these are the suspects behind this. And this is, you know, sometimes, you see that even when you get these suspects, the Nigerians are just, you know, forget them. These people will just be set free after a while. So I think that is not the concern of Nigerians right now. It's how to put food on their table, how to feed themselves, how to clothe themselves, how to live well, how to go to the hospital and be treated well. They keep reading every day. There's going to be a strike. The nurses are going on strike. Doctors are living in the country. So that scares Nigerians more than bringing 10, 20 people and say, these are the people that have been selling your fuel and we are going to send them to prison. I don't think most people really, yes, they want to hear, they want to read it and they say, look, what has become of those people in the past? You have some people here, CC, I've read them. And for the past two, three years, if nothing has been had, so at the end of the day, let me go. Mr. Daburo. Mr. Daburo, without meaning to take us from your mouth, that exactly is the reason why I am thinking this is important because even as Nigerians are talking about how to take care of transportation, how to make sure they don't have to buy food at very exorbitant prices and every other thing because of this fuel removal, part of the discussions I have been hearing from Nigerians is the fact that we must change the narrative. As you have said, what has happened to those in the past who were guilty or who did these things? A change in the narrative, I believe, is one of the ways of making Nigerians find closure as we handle this fuel subsidy removal and deal with the hardship that comes with it. And just to add to that, just to add to that, Mr. Dagonro, before you answer. When that pronouncement was made on May 29, NNPC, that had the resources and everything and bought fuel for Nigeria with the price that they bought, with the subsidy that the federal government gave, went ahead immediately to place prices on the pump. The pump prices were raised up to exorbitant prices and then the federal government is quiet about it. There are people in NNPC-L that should have been asked why it happened that way because the money they used to buy the fuel to come and feed Nigeria as it were was still subsidy money. But they placed that price and then said that the federal government was owing them 2.8 trillion Naira or something like that. Yet nobody said anything about it. We were all blaming the marketers for raising their prices as well. But nobody thought about NNPC and the federal government should have. So what does that do to the image of the present administration as people who will want to build confidence of the people in this government? Yes, you know, Mr. Fermifalano came up and said NNPC has no right to do that. If I'm correct, I think there are a lot of things that will be put in place in Naira's future. And I'm looking at the issue of these people who have been messing around for a while. It's just like if you said, okay, after all, our Naira was redesigned. What happened? Why is the new Naira today? So what should we do? And the central bank of Nigeria is still there. Do we have to query him? If we follow all those procedure of arresting, prosecuting and it will distract the government, in my own view. So let's put actions in place. Let's stabilize the economy. We know there's inflation. Even in Germany, there's a recession. The global economy is gloomy. It's not that fantastic anywhere and everywhere in the world. So let us face the reality. And that is what I'm happy that Nigerians are beginning to understand it differently. So now if, look at the issue of the strike when the laborer said, look, what a good strike. What the government said, okay, let's go to court. And the court said, no, you can't do that. That is openness. That's democracy. That is looking at injustice and injustice delivered. So, and everything went quietly. I think we have to now begin to look at the processes. The processes will determine how far these government can go. The processes, we might make a mistake. I mean, I wanna say we now. The system itself, the government might make a mistake, but currently people are long to make them understand that this is where we are. This is where we are going. And if you default in one way or the other, come out and tell them the truth. I think people just want to be told the truth and to see that it's not just saying that we made a mistake. If you make a mistake and you correct the mistake, people will be happy. There's more to be done. People want to build trust. You need to do a lot, a lot more than what we are doing. And I think maybe we can say it's too early because it is the same political party that is in power. That is, I think that is the concern of the people that look. You can't say you don't know this. You know this before you get there. So, now you have to do it. You can't blame another party. You can't blame another person again. It's your party. So, I can understand that. But I just think that taking it this way to say, look, let's begin to move on. NNPC, we now, you know, NNPC is supposed to be a limited ability company, public company, but now the same people who are running it are still there. So, I wonder when they're going to change things gradually. You know, but you can't just fire all those guys. You disrupt the system. And I think that is what they are looking into. But gradually, I want to believe between now and October, we'll see, you know, changes that people will say, yes, this is what we expect. I think that that's mounting. I was at the petrol station yesterday. I saw a queue. And I stopped by to find out what is causing this queue. You know, I spoke to the manager and he told me that people are coming to the petrol station here to buy because the gauge is right. We don't change them. That if you go to the next one, you discover that you had to find one or two people there. So now, people are beginning to say, I want to have value for my money. And they are ready to give up even to buy, where they will not be changed. I think people are getting more, you know, confident about what's going on that I want to buy this. But then if I say, I want 5,000, let it be 5,000, not 4,500. So a lot will still come into. So not just those who have really are storing the subsidy money, even those who are selling, that are cheating the people, we need to monitor and we need to see that things are done right. Yes, I agree with you. We have to move fast. There's no point delaying all these things. But we have to be steady so that we don't commit blunders as well. I think that's what the government is trying to avoid. Chelsea is requesting 200,000 a month from the government for salaries for... Minimum wage. Minimum wage. And they have said, June 19 is the time they're giving to the government to give them an answer of this request. What do you make of that request? Of 200,000 a narrow minimum wage? Honestly, you know, I don't know how the government of Nigeria would pay 200,000 or states. You know, they have some city cannot even pay 30,000 a year. I don't know how they are going to cope with that. I don't want to say anything about that for now. But for me, I think for a long time, we've been spending as if we're living in Europe. You know, in love of bread, it's almost 1,000. And in case not to kill, it's going to be like 1,500 after a while. You know, so what do you look at that? A bunch of plantain, a good one, nice about 2,000. I don't think we're importing plantain into this country. So a lot of things we have to normalize itself because it's like we are comparing that bread. So maybe one dollar or once one euro multiplied by the street market value, then you get almost that. So I think a lot has to be done into that. But I have not seen government being able to pay 200,000. I don't know if they have that money. But I think we need to bring into the system welfare programs. The welfare programs, you know, in the past we have free health. Can we still have free qualitative health program for our people? Can we still have that today? We have free education. Can we still have those qualitative education today? Free, to a certain level, even if it's not at all levels. Can we still have all those things that we have before? If you say housing for all, yes, not everybody will be able to have that housing program or have a house or a flat. But can we just give the people that would go for the ballot or pay for this and not distributing it among only the faithful, the party faithful, because it is about government, not about party. So these are the things that we have to. What happened after these 52 buses are on the road? Not all the 52 buses or 1,000 or 5,000 buses should be on the road. Some of them would break down sometimes. So the route, what happened to that? We have to improve on our maritime system, on our seaway to make sure that people go through, by boats, by all other means, create a place for where bicycle can be rude. You can ride bicycle on the road that will not be jammed or be kicked up or be killed as well. So a lot of things have to be done. I think more creative ideas will be coming in as we go on, I believe so. And if the government begins to listen to the positive side of it, more people will join. It's not about party anymore. It's not about PDP, NMPP or whatever. It's about Nigeria right now. And I think most of these people should come around, politicians should just be bipartisan and media as well. I think the media has a role to play and stop this, what I could say, Karaoke journalism kind of, so that we don't, let's begin to support government. And if they now misuse the support, if they don't take it, then we can still go back and say listen, you messed it up. Oh, I must tell you that the media is supporting this government. Media houses all over the country are putting out their voices and their content to support the government and the people because we must strike a balance. However, there are those who have also said, we're winding up now because time is not on our side. But there are those who are saying that Nigeria being an opaque nation should indeed have been able to have gotten to a situation where the state governments and the federal government should be able to pay at least 200,000 Naira minimum, which, but we know that the reality on ground, because of wastages and abuse and theft, has made it impossible or make it look impossible for that to happen. But we do hope for Nigeria and I will get to that point where Nigerians will indeed start to leave the way their folio and opaque member nations live across the world. Let me just quickly say it. It's not just being an opaque member nation and all that. You see, you have to see that some of these states are local governments, they are not sustainable. They have debts over and they cannot even pay their debts. So how do they service? And if they take more debts now, how do they service it? It's a problem. Do you see this in Berkeley? Do you see this in Berkeley? Inspiring state governments become more viable, more resourceful and more innovative. That is what they have to do. And the first thing people are expecting now is to cut their codes according to their code, sacrifice. It's not every time you come into the government you have to buy new prado for all the people in government. Let's begin to call, let's begin to sacrifice. Let's show. You see, sometimes you don't even know how much these special advisors, these special assistants, how much they earn and they have them in millions, in thousands and thousands. So people are fed up when you have special assistant upon special assistant, special advisor. So let's cut down the cost of government. People have been saying it for a long time. So you cannot come now and say, look, Nigeria should sacrifice and they see the senator, somebody who went there with maybe a Toyota Corolla coming back home with a prado too for instance or three. And beginning to wear, but every day I say there's consistency allowed. People are getting fed up with that. And I can understand that. Let's begin to cut down on the wasteful resources. We waste resources a lot. And that is what it's painful to people and it's painful to every Nigerian as well. So unless we begin to show, demonstrate that. It's not just by giving bosses and whatever. Let them know that yes, I am part of it. I'm paying my taxes. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. When people see that, they will sympathize with the government. Thank you so much. That's a good place to end this conversation, Mr. Joe Fermilagoro. Thank you so much for your time and insight on this very matter. Welcome, I appreciate it. Joe Fermilagoro, chief strategist, Westphalia Resources has been our guest on the first hot topic. We'll take a break and come back with a second hot topic. Stay with us.