 Good morning everyone. Thanks for joining us today. I made a senior program manager for ASB's Innovation and Entrepreneurship Centre and I will be your moderator today. So today is our last of our day after tomorrow series. So before we begin the content proper, I would like to invite us to join us Dr. Tan who's actually the person who's been leading the series for the last couple of weeks and he has a few announcements to make about future opportunities. So Dr. Tan maybe you can join us and say hi. Hello everyone. Thank you for being with us again today. I'm just going to take a minute here to say that we just want to share with you that like May said, after nine comprehensive topics with over 3400 registrations across 20 countries, ASB's the day after tomorrow series is coming to a conclusion. We did this in response to the COVID-19 pandemic and we're after running running nine topics, right? We'll come to a conclusion after today's conversation. We were taken by the support of our communities, the ASB faculty, supporting teams, our guest panelists, right? And we're especially grateful to all of you for your participation. Everybody came together at this time of need and ASB allowed to continue to do our parts, whether in our MBA, part-time MBA and the executive education offerings. You can see the screen right now if you would like to, you're interested in exploring future opportunities to collaborate. There's a QR code there that you may scan. And by the way, the recordings of all the sessions, our nine sessions that we have run since back in March in the series would also be available. Let me just close by saying that, let me quote Jack Ma who had said once that today is difficult, tomorrow is even more difficult, but the day after is beautiful. So hopefully we'll be getting to see the dawn of that day. And good luck to everybody. Back to you, May. Enjoy the show. Thank you, Dr. Tan. And thank you all for taking time out to be here with us today. First of all, of course, I'm very excited to be introducing our esteemed panelists. Our very first panelist is, of course, Puan Dulara Abubaka. She's actually the CEO of Magic, which is the Malaysian Global Innovation and Creativity Centre. And that's a household name through most Malaysians here. I don't think I need to say more. Later on, Puan Dulara, she will be talking a little bit more about what Magic does and how that kind of contributes to the solution for what we're talking about today. Prior to that, she's also the CEO of the cradle seat benches, which is an early stage funding agency in here in Malaysia. And she's also the council member of the National ICT Association. So she wears lots of hats, actually, and she serves in many roles in government agencies. And she's very well versed in technology, innovation, public equity, so on and so forth. So she's the best person when it comes to the topic that we're going to be talking about today. And also, together with us, we have Professor Rajesh Nayyar. He's the director of the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Centre here at the Age of School of Business. He is an entrepreneurship himself with more than 25 years of experience in product design. He's created, like, more than 100 products. And he himself holds 13 U.S. patents. And also, he has a few startups that he has started in the Boston area. And currently, he's working on creating more innovation ecosystems in underserved communities around the region through the program that he developed called the Zero to Makeup. Before we start the content proper, I'd like to do a few housekeeping. So we do, like, we have together with us here today, participants from over 14 countries, all zooming in at the same time. So we are also really excited to be harnessing this diversity. And we do hope that you can contribute to us in this discussion as well. So I would ask for you to participate through the Q&A function in the Zoom platform. So you can see, like, on your screen, there is this Q&A button. You can contribute by asking questions there or, alternatively, you could go there and then upvote certain questions that you might like so that we can prioritize them and discuss them in our conversation going forward. So yeah, I will try my best to include your questions in our conversations today and try to make it a fruitful one for all of us. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce our topic today. As we all know, we are living in an unprecedented time. A lot of us probably are zooming in from home right now, despite it being a working day. And that's because of the current pandemic that the world is facing right now. There's a lot of displacement in terms of employment that has happened. In fact, I'll just show you a few facts about what's happening around in terms of the employment situation globally. So it's been said that today we're facing one of the most severe unemployment crisis since the Second World War. And that's, I think, a little bit scary to think about. Like, wow, the unemployment that we're currently facing is actually, you know, close to what the world was seeing during a big war that we were having in the world at that time. And I think, coupled with the pandemic, I mean, the pandemic happened at a time where the world is also, I guess, still learning to cope with the fourth industrial revolution, so about technological transformation, uptake, and all of these. So this huge massive economic disruption does amplify this process that actually we're going through. And then, more than that, we also have social distancing measures. Currently today, it actually affects 81% of the global workforce that we live in. So I'm sure you and me are probably affected in one way or another, some more than others. So the International Labor Organization, the ILO, they estimate that these social distancing measures actually resulted in a reduction of 6.7% of working hours. And that's actually 195 million full-time workers worth of work that's been displaced due to the social distancing measures that we're taking on right now to combat the pandemic. Some sectors that are most affected include retail trade, accommodation, and food services, as well as manufacturing. So I mean, I have painted quite a dire picture here today. Of course, we were also discussing that this is temporary. It will probably rebound quite quickly after the pandemic, hopefully sooner than later. But we're also curious today, what are some of the solutions around combatting this huge unemployment crisis that we're facing right now? And maybe what are some of the opportunities that we see going into the future in terms of jobs, employment, so without further ado, I'd like to pass the mic over to Juan DuLara. First of all, DuLara, maybe you could tell us a little bit more about magic and why you think it's such an important contributor to these employment and economic outlooks in Malaysia, and maybe even extended to the region. And maybe cover a little bit more about how entrepreneurship could be maybe a solution to this unemployment crisis we're facing right now. DuLara? Thank you, Mei. Hi, everyone. A very good morning to all. Hi, Rajesh. Hi, Sun. Thank you for having me here today on this webinar. It's a very exciting panel session. It's a very exciting topic as well. So maybe I'll just start with a quick introduction of magic. So magic, we are the Malaysian Global Innovation and Creativity Centre. So literally our core or our DNA is really around entrepreneurship built around innovation and creativity. That's really to encapsulate what we do. So we program, sorry, we create programs and we deliver programs that is centered around building entrepreneurship talents, right? So we work with early talents, we work with young talents, and we also work with professionals. We also work with startups or we also work with small businesses that want to leverage on technology and innovation, right? Because so we strongly believe that entrepreneurship or an enterprise is basically the engine or the vehicle that's actually needed to take an idea, to take a product or to take a solution to where it's supposed to be, to market, essentially. So without entrepreneurship, you can't see product coming to market, right? Now, entrepreneurship is a very, very important element. And so that's what we focus on. We run accelerator programs. Our biggest accelerator, our largest sort of flagship program is called the Global Accelerator Program, which we actually run every year. It's a cohort where we actually design program over four months. We get startups through this program. We actually equip them with whatever is needed for you to grow further. So our target is really increasing revenues, as well as we want them to come out from the program being investable, right? So we emphasize a lot on the commercial value in terms of any program that we actually roll out. See, because if you, no matter how good you are or no matter how good your product is, if no one is willing to fund you or there's no market to it, then it's basically pointless. That's basically oversimplifying the sort of the ethos of the program. But that's essentially what we do, right? We need to make you a market ready. That's what Magic's philosophy is when it comes to entrepreneurship. And I think, so we work with various organizations. We work with universities. We work with esteemed universities like ASB, right? ASB, MIT. We focus on a lot more on collaboration. We think collaboration is the way to go. And we work with all the industry partners. We work with private sectors. We work with corporate as well. So in all of our programs, we actually emphasize the importance of market. We emphasize the importance of corporate collaboration, right? So yeah, that's essentially what we do. You'll find a lot more details of what we do in our website. And we're also very active in our social media page, Instagram, Facebook. So we have all sorts of accelerator program, boot camps, digital content that's always pushed out through our social media network. But at a national level, we're an agency where we actually galvanize all entrepreneurship and all technology efforts, right? So we work with the government sector. We work with the private sector. We work with all the agencies. Right now, Magic, we are placed under the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation, which actually places us in a very important position when it comes to technology and innovation agenda for the country. So as I've mentioned earlier, without an entrepreneurship sort of capsule or an entrepreneurship sort of agenda, technology and innovation can't be brought out to market. So technology, innovation and entrepreneurship, it's a very, very important tool. So we call it the FDI, Science, Technology, Innovation. And that's where creativity and innovation comes in. So it's a whole one big, one big, one big puzzle that we're looking to solve. So that's a bit about Magic. Now coming back to jobs and employment opportunities, especially in this period of COVID, right? I think we've all seen how COVID has sort of hit us in many ways that we've not actually expected. We always preach the importance of building business resilience. But I think many of us didn't, we didn't see what resilience actually meant until this period, right? No matter how we were prepared before this, I think everything went off the roof, right? Everything, right? Everything that we've learned, everything that we've known is no longer applicable, right? So you need to find new ways of operating, you need to find new business models. So we've tried very hard to sort of assist the businesses that are within our programs. And we've also tried and offered some advice to the startup community, right? So, but then again, we also need to admit that we don't know everything ourselves. We're trying to figure it out ourselves as well. So which is why collaboration is very important, exchange of knowledge is very important, understanding how different industries reacting to this pandemic is also very important, right? And everything is time bound right now. What works yesterday may not work tomorrow, right? So in the same in the same approach, we look at employment. A lot of our startups, the first thing that they've done or small businesses per se, the first thing that they've done is that they've laid off employees, right? In the face of a crisis, the first thing that you want to do is you want to reduce your operating costs, because you know, your revenues are declining. It's either declining or it's close to zero. I think a lot of you here will identify with that. And what do you do? And I think it's completely understandable. The first thing you do is to reduce your operating expenditure. And you do that by reducing your hit count. You want to operate leaner, right? And as a result, you've got many unemployed people, but these are all talented, you know, skilled. And these are people that have worked in tech startups, right? We've got CTOs applying for jobs right now. We've got tech talents applying for jobs right now. So I think it's also a situation where we've actually seen seeing an emergence of skilled talents that can be immediately tapped, right? So that's one pool. How do we get them back into the workforce? It could also be in the form of getting them back into entrepreneurship, getting them back to start tech businesses, you know? So one way that we're looking at it is how do we match existing IPs that are available in the market, right? So okay, this becomes a bit technical, but we're trying to work with universities. How can we match the IPs that are sitting with the universities with the talent that is available in the market right now? Because you've got ready entrepreneurial talent that can be immediately matched. I mean, that's one thing that we're looking at. But again, it's not as easy. It requires a lot of planning. It requires a lot of structuring in that manner. But employment is definitely top in terms of our priority. And it's definitely, I'm curious to hear about what Rajesh and you know, Sun has to say about it, but it's definitely top of our priority as well. Great. Thank you, Dulara. Like I think you mentioned a lot of very interesting points about like business resilience. And I think on the note of the STI, science technology innovation, I think that could be potentially, you know, something that we can look forward to coming out of COVID. And I think the other point that you mentioned that was really interesting was how, yes, we have a lot of talent that has maybe been laid off, but they are also kind of talented people who maybe have some experience in the startup and entrepreneurial environment and how can we actually maximize these people. But I guess now like moving on to Prof. Rajesh, yeah, we talk a lot about entrepreneurship and how they do create jobs and new economic activity for the markets. But I mean, there's always this question in the back of our mind, right? Like does entrepreneurship really impact the creation of new jobs? Like wouldn't there be like bigger multi-nationals out there that are creating more jobs than startups? I don't know, could you share some of your research with us maybe? Thank you, May and good morning to all. Before I get into that, I know not many people know me. I know they all know on Zillera and Magic. So I would like to start with a view from an entrepreneur's point of view. So just to, before I get to the future, I'd like to get to the past. We all heard of this 5Y analysis of getting to the root cause. And I want to talk about 5House. So if you could pull up the presentation in the slide there May. So if in January, if someone had told you there is a virus that can affect, can kill people, spread so fast, if I had asked how would it impact others, you would say we would need to protect each of us, we need to do isolation. And how does it impact people? You would say, you know, you're going to have, you'll be working from home, but businesses would be for, you know, you can't go to restaurants and such. Then how does it impact the businesses? You may say, you may have several companies may go out of business. How does it impact people? You may say, people may lose jobs. How does it impact the rest of the society? You may say, people have loss of income. It may lead to hunger, poverty, social unrest. So you could actually think forward with these House. And that is how an entrepreneur thinks to look for interesting problems that could come in future and look how we can create solutions. And to address this issue that you're seeing today, you know, we have some 15 to 20% unemployment in the US. Some 40 million people who are in the US who are filed for bankruptcy or not bankruptcy unemployment. Now, I believe the way to turn things around is to create jobs. Now, entrepreneurs are, they're not optimist or person is they're realists and opportunists. They don't look at what's how things are. They look at how things could be and they kind of monetize the difference. And if you and so are innovators, if you really look at the situation of ventilators, used to cost $50,000. Now we have designs that are a few hundred dollars. Now, this is actually had going to change a few things. No hospital is going to go easily go buy a $50,000 ventilator and no innovators going to stop it designing the ventilator. They're going to look at what else can I do in this industry with so much margin, like Jeff Bezos said, no, your margin is my opportunity. But this is the entrepreneur's thinking is what is out there that you can that you can create. And that is a way to create, solve problems, create startups, create jobs and create wealth. And by the way, we are only in the act one of the whole COVID play, you know, so there is a whole lot more to go. Next slide, please. So if you look at the, there was an article from Kopman Foundation. They studied from 1980 to 2005 and found that almost all jobs were created by companies zero to five years old. Okay, almost all. And in 2007, just before the market crash, two thirds of the jobs of new jobs are created by brand new companies. And so what without startups, there would be no net job, new job creation on it would be actually negative. So interestingly, there is no discussions on when you are on job creation from entrepreneurship, when we talk in policy discussions on job creation. And I think that entrepreneurship should be brought into the center of this discussion of job creation in future. So next slide, please. I believe startups and entrepreneurs are the engines of job creation. So next. So what kind of entrepreneurs are we working on? And which are the ones who could actually create these kind of jobs? Professor Fiona Murray and Bill OLED had an article on this, on innovation driven entrepreneurs and innovation driven enterprises. And there's a very interesting comparison they did with SMEs versus IDEs. SMEs primarily, next slide, please. They talk about things like restaurants, dry cleaners, nail polish, nail salons and such who are primarily local. Their expansion is limited, they're linear. And there is no much of innovation required to create the next company and such. But IDEs are the Ubers and Airbnbs and technology driven companies that can create value. They also start the similar way. They both start in a little garage. But the trajectory of their growth would be very, very different. The market for an IDE is global. They're totally critically driven by innovation. And their growth is exponential. I remember when I started my last company, we started with two people in a room. Four years later, we were 140 people. And it was primarily driven totally by technology and with markets everywhere in the world. Next slide, please. So how do we create these entrepreneurs from ordinary people in this world, ordinary population? And that has been my research at MIT and my current research at the Asia School of Business too. How do we take these people who have now been exposed to the idea of entrepreneurship and take them through this phase of maker, which is like the creativity phase where they learn to learn the self learners, creative people who can ideate and design and make things to innovators who can find problems and solve them with the technology and skills they have created and entrepreneurs who can monetize them and commercialize the products that they have designed. But when you put them all together, what you have is an ecosystem that makers attract zeros and innovators attract zeros and makers. And you actually start to attract more and more people into this ecosystem, which becomes self sustaining and growing. I know there isn't much time to show much of the work here. So if you go to zero to maker.org or Asia School of Business, you will actually see a lot of work. So one of the innovation driven entrepreneurship program that I've done run these kind of experiments in different places in a college when you, I ran this program and I found in the first year itself, they were about 11 and then over four years, about 21 startups in this little college, which had one student startup in the previous 12 years since its inception. Next slide. So what it says is that entrepreneurs can be created. Even they may be born with certain skills, but they still need to be trained. They still need to be created and nurtured. Next slide. So we have been doing these kind of work at Asia School of Business in different places, you know, in universities. This is the and communities like in East Timor and such and in schools and with the help from Fonsilera and Magic, we did this program in 10 rural government schools where we gave them maker labs and such taught these kids how to train them. And I truly believe entrepreneurship training should start when they're 10, not when they're in their 20s, because you have all the time, the decade, to build them up and build their confidence. Next slide please. So ecosystem is what actually transforms people and communities. We need to create the ecosystem can create entrepreneurs, ecosystem consists of mentors and resources and such that can transform individuals and communities. Next slide. So the three take away, I'd like to take away one is startups and entrepreneurs are created, the other engines of job creation, innovators and entrepreneurs can be nurtured and ecosystem is what transforms people. So ideas, how do we create this ecosystem that can create jobs, create companies, create wealth to deal with the post COVID challenges. So back to you. Thank you, Raj. Yeah, I think, I think Professor Raj, he talked a lot about, you know, how entrepreneurship is the, is actually the, the source of new jobs. And also that I think it's a very positive message that actually innovators can be nurtured. And I think that's, that's really important for coming out of this. And of course, you talk a little bit about ecosystems and how that's important in transferring these skills across to more people. And I think right now, like, I guess the people kind of just thinking about, okay, so I mean, I don't know if everyone has any, like every anyone here has actually think about, oh, you know, maybe I want to be my own entrepreneur one day. But I think with that comes also a lot of barriers, right? Like, oh, you know, I need to worry about this, financials, getting a team and things like that. And more than that, like, there is also a question that has come up now that is talking about, you know, are there actually some new opportunities or solutions that we see coming out of this COVID period to fill these like new solutions that could fill these important gaps or business opportunities? So I guess my next question is for Pondulera, because you have a lot of experience working, like from the funding side to the facilitation side of like startups, entrepreneurs. So I guess the question for you is, what do you think are some of the largest barriers of entry in becoming an entrepreneur? Is it personal? Is it also like systematic? And have you seen any new business opportunities that have emerged because of the pandemic? Thanks, May. So again, that's a very interesting and relevant question. So when you go back to barriers to becoming an entrepreneur, I think Prof Rajeshia will agree with me. I think from an individual perspective, if you want to do something, there's actually no barrier. You can actually go out and if you think your idea makes sense, but again, the idea can't just make sense for you, which is why I said earlier, it needs to be validated through the market. You need to know that your idea works. So if that works, go ahead and do it. But I guess structurally or in terms of the infrastructure around to actually promote entrepreneurship and to actually allow an entrepreneur to take his idea or product to market, I think as far as Malaysia is concerned, I would, I would, I mean, possibly a bias to view here, but I would say I think we're very, very, how do you say, very, very attuned towards the need of an entrepreneur. I think as far as an infrastructure is concerned, we've got sufficient support as far as capacity building is concerned. We've got sufficient support as far as funding is concerned. And I think more importantly is the government. Increasingly now, I think the government is giving a lot of emphasis around the need and importance of entrepreneurship. There's a lot of push, even when it comes to even impact investors or impact entrepreneurship, right? So in terms of businesses that are generating social and environmental benefits, those are kind of businesses that we also want to actually bring to market at this point. So and particularly technology businesses, tech startups. And if you look at it, technology and innovation is a very, very core component to any business. If you want it to be impactful, if you want the impact to be scalable, and if you want it to grow. So as Prof Rajesh mentioned earlier, you've got innovation driven on enterprises. So if you start your business on that note, your chances of scaling it or taking it beyond the Malaysian shores is actually far better in that sense. But when it comes to, like I mentioned earlier, when it comes to the structural support, Malaysia has everything. It's just a matter of knowing which door to knock when it comes to building your business and when it comes to growing your business. We need to probably plug some gaps when it comes to funding in this country. But again, I think it's also up to the entrepreneur to be creative in terms of raising funds or in terms of looking for the right resources to grow your business. You've got equity crowdfunding platform that actually allows you to raise funds from the public, right? And if you are, say if you're a social enterprise or if you are and sort of impact driven entity, you can raise funds through donations. So magic also promotes social entrepreneurship. We actually also run something called the social enterprise accreditation program, which we actually allow entities that are very driven towards social and environmental purposes to be part of this community. But we also want them to be leveraged on technology and innovation, right? So for as long as you're generating meaningful impact to the environment and community, you can be part of this alliance. And the end goal is that you will receive incentives in the form of, you know, if you are donated by a corporate or an individual, your donations are actually tax exempt. That's the first step, right? So that's also facilitating financing into the into the ecosystem. So no matter what kind of an entrepreneur you are, whether you're a social entrepreneur, whether you're a tech entrepreneur, or even if you're an SME, but if you are, if you are actually generating or you're actually creating impact, there's actually no real barrier in this country, I would say, you know, it's just a matter of, you know, reaching out to the right people. And I think on the other part around, sorry, I missed your other question, Mei. So what are the opportunities that you see that has come up? Yes, yes, correct. So that's what I thought. So the pandemic has actually, as much as it is, you know, a challenging situation, but I think it is also a time where a lot of opportunities, you know, it's, it's, you know, with crisis comes opportunities, right? That's there's always an opportunity for you to look at, look at new business models and new ways of operating. So I think especially in, I'll give you one example. So we had a social enterprise. I think it's a very popular social enterprise. What they actually did is because, you know, the current operating model didn't work. They pivoted, they used their existing resources to start generating, to start producing PPEs, you know, started creating more facial masks, right? So that's, that's one quick win, right? So they immediately pivoted their business model. They turned around. So we had also another tech startup who was in the business of points of sales. I think you know them quite well as well. So they were in the business of point of sale and their, their sort of customers by and large were F and B owners. When, when MCO hit, F and Bs were not able to operate physically, right? So the only way to operate was to actually turn their model online. They needed to do online delivery. So what this business did, what, what this startup did was to reach out to all of their F and B customers to say, okay, how can we help you now? So they actually turned the business model around to turn it into an online delivery app. So even businesses that could not, that did not deliver online prior to MCO started delivering food online. Right? So look, I think at the end of the day, it's about identifying opportunities and working within your resources and your constraints to turn your business model around. Right? I, I, that, that's really the spirit that should be in this situation. But again, I would also agree and I would also say that not all businesses are designed to pivot during this period. Right? Some will probably just need to stay home and not do anything. Right? That's a given. I think, Prof, maybe you can, you can interrupt and say something about this as well. You know, we've got many businesses coming to us and say, oh, you know what, how can we pivot our business model? My answer is we'll really need to look at your market and we really need to look at your product. Not all businesses can be turned around and not all businesses can pivot at this point. Right? So I have quickly, I have, you know, any business or the entrepreneurs require opportunity, skills and resources. Okay. Yeah. Opportunities are problems in disguise. Today we have 100 times more problems than we had BC. I'm talking about BC as before Corona. Okay. Today we have so many more problems and people really want to solve these problems. There is money there. If, so entrepreneurs need, this is a golden age for entrepreneurs and innovators. If you ever get to once in a lifetime, hopefully pandemics don't come more than once in a lifetime. So this is absolutely the opportunity for entrepreneurs to identify these problems and solve them skills. I see zero difference in skill level from any country I've taught in small rural schools to top schools in the world. Okay. And students, I found that they're equally intelligent. What is missing is the kind of ability, the exposure that they've been given and the access to things that have been given and that actually can be, can be done. And comes to resources, entrepreneurs start with zero resources. They always work with resources they do not have. Now, when you talk about, during COVID, the reality has changed. Several of these changes that we have seen are chemical changes. They're not going to come back to previous lives, the previous state. Some of them are physical changes that are going to slowly change back. But either way, the ground reality of the market has changed. Any company that is standing still would be like, you know, freezing in headlights would be roadkill. Okay. So we need to look at it carefully to see, analyze to see are the three things going to go back to the previous way of doing business? Or is your customer still there? Are the customer reality has it changed? You know, so this requires a very interesting analysis at every company, you know. So I truly believe that opportunities are abundant today. And anyone who, who's even having one, you know, interest, any interest in starting a startup, this is the time to do it. And, and I believe that are paying customers to solve real problems. Great. Thanks, Professor Raj. I think, yeah, I think you've done pretty well on these various opportunities. However, like right now, I just scrolled through the Q&A section. And I think there is this person who asks startups often takes time to monetize and also even less stable than large MNCs, multinational corporations. So how does creating or joining a startup in this inconsistent and unstable period going to sustain that long-term job opportunities in the market? And I guess this is kind of linked to another question that's being asked like, you know, how do we actually create these environments so that we can actually, you know, support more people to be able to pursue these maybe as a, as a possible opportunity? May on that note, I think even big companies, you don't have job security. Exactly. That's a myth. Job security is a myth. Okay. You know, Rolls Royce just laid off 9,000 people in the UK, right? We, I mean, it's coming to our shores anytime. So I feel, you know, I can see the security of a job versus the risk of an entrepreneur are the two things that being compared. Entrepreneurs are not risk takers. They're risk managers. A true entrepreneur would not sell their house, his house and his or her house and go put all the money into onto an idea. They would take $100 and take, look at the problem to see is the problem real, then maybe $1000 to see if I created something, would people buy? Then we $10,000 to create the first prototype. And at every single stage, you're actually improving your chances of success. And, and that is how you manage risk. So I, I, I, I, if, if, if, if right at $100, you realize that your company doesn't have a chance, that is a perfect because you only spend $100 and you have learned that you can't do things, then you have invested your money. And so exactly. So at entrepreneur jobs are not secure at all. You know, who knows? What's the next thing we would ask you to say that just to add on to what Prof Rajesh just said, I think what we're actually encouraging is that this is an opportunity for you to actually, as you mentioned, this is an opportunity to look at problems in the market. This is a time where you can turn it around, become an entrepreneur, right? Because there's just so much resources available for you to start off at this point. Maybe, maybe this period while everything is being in a lockdown period, maybe it's a bit harder to start, you know, because interaction is a bit limited. But it just opens up a Pandora box of opportunities in terms of what you can solve, problems that you can solve. Go ahead, Bay. Yeah, I think, I think that's a great point to bring up, right? Like, I think a lot of people are forgetting the fact that, yeah, actually, you know, everyone is in a volatile situation at the moment. Yeah, it's not just startups, like big companies are also facing that. I know my sister, she works in a very big consulting firm and they are also, you know, facing some, you know, liquidity issues. Yeah, they want to keep everyone but, you know, at the end of the day, you do need to cut your costs and to make sure that your business continues. So I think that's a really good point perspective to bring in. And the questions, they have quite a lot of questions. I saw that, okay, maybe we can ask this one that has been submitted since the registration time. So there is a question that was asked that, do we see local industries change into digitalization any time soon? They said that these could be done when the government and private sector work 10 in 10. So I don't know what are your perspectives on this? So the quick answer, I know I saw this cartoon which said, who drove your corporate to digitization and say A, C, E, O, B, C, T, O, C coronavirus? Yeah, the answer in both cases is, in all cases, coronavirus because people haven't moved because they were so happy with status quo. And if today, if you haven't gone digital, you know, this is suicidal, okay. Because another company can come and bring in, but primarily digitization brings in such efficiency in operation growth and all that. So it is absolutely important to have, but then without that, it will be very, very dangerous to survive. Go ahead, Zilla, let your hand. No, no, no, absolutely. I fully agree with you. But I guess the other, the flip side to it is, it's a restart button. I think COVID is a restart for many businesses and individuals. Wonderful, yeah. Sometimes I say we need to figure things out ourselves, like even from a magic perspective, I'm not going to claim we know everything. We're trying to scramble as well, trying to figure out what works, what doesn't work. And I also have questions from many industries, you know, asking us because they, well, rightly or wrongly, they look to the government for guidance, right? So they're asking us, what can we do in the tourism sector? What can we do in Agri? What can we do in Plantation, right? So I guess this is an opportunity that we're looking with the ministry as well, to identify all technology solutions that we've been creating in the past. As I've mentioned, the universities, the research institutes, we've got tons of technologies sitting. This is probably the opportunity where we're actually going to jumpstart, we're going to dig out everything and bring it out to the market and say, you know what, we're going to find where we can apply this best, right? So if you're talking about Agri for that matter, right now we've got an issue with foreign labor, right? A lot of the infections came in through foreign labor, right? How do we reduce foreign labor? How do we increase our local talent getting into industries that are not too sexy, like plantation for that matter or Agri for that matter? A lot of these industries are populated by foreign labor. How do we get in our local labor? So one way to do it is add digitalization, add robotics, right? So get them all in, it becomes sexier and people want to be part of it, right? But again, let me caution all of this takes time, right? It's not going to happen tomorrow, it's not going to happen next week. But I guess to embrace ourselves for that change, which is actually imminent, it is coming, we will need to equip ourselves with the necessary knowledge. You need to go out and start, you know, equipping yourself as to how do you work with a digital environment? How do you, how do you equip your team to be more tech savvy for that matter? A lot of us, I think when we, when we, when we came into the lockdown period, a lot of us didn't even know how to operate virtual calls. That point, yes. Right? Let alone sophisticated technology, you know, a lot of us were scrambling, how do we run our meetings online? You know, MS teams, Microsoft teams was a new concept, right? In fact, I think before this, many of us only had Skype on our app. As far as virtual teleconferencing is concerned. So yeah. Yeah, great, great points actually. So actually we have come to like the time for the session to, the webinar to end. However, there's a lot, a lot of questions that are still coming in and we're happy to hang around and take them. For those of you who join us and you have prior commitments, like you free to go to them. For the others who are still interested to continue with us in the conversation, I encourage you to also like hang back, hang around. In fact, right now, maybe I can ask another question that it has come from the audience. So actually there is a, there is a question that goes. So yeah, some, I guess, viewers from the agent development bank and they, they, they asked at ADB, we've seen some gaps in the impact that are related to young people who are, you know, disproportionately negatively affected by the economic impacts. In fact, 86% of the young people in Asia prior to the crisis were in informal work and they're highly vulnerable to the economic shock. And a lot of them are also engaged in hard heat sectors, you know. So there are a lot of models that exist for projected job loss due to COVID-19, but not disaggregated by gender or age. So there's also a gap that exists in the number of youth led startups or young people employed by startups. And I think maybe Zulera can also chime in on this a little bit. So apparently the team in the agent development bank is working with ILO to fill some of these gaps related to the impact. So they're also looking for some partners in this journey. So I guess like, I don't know if Prof Raj or Juan Zulera, you guys can chime in on this in terms of if you know about, you know, these young people being more disproportionately negatively affected by these economical impacts. And maybe like, what are some of the things that you guys are also engaged in in terms of kind of mitigating this gap? So I feel we could use these young people as the catalyst for this change in becoming, to creating entrepreneurship ecosystems. So imagine if you have unemployed, underemployed youth, if you could train them and change their thinking, they send them back to their towns and villages to impact others to find problems, solve problems locally. We are actually starting little ripples of entrepreneurship changes in rural communities. And entrepreneurship need to start at the mind stage. That means you need to kind of change somebody's thinking first, so that they could actually go out and take all the opportunities and resources that are available from the top. So for that kind of change could be made using these unemployed graduates and, you know, underemployed youth as the change makers in the community. Yeah, and I don't know if Juan Zulera, you want to chime in on how magic has also maybe also helped to mitigate this gap with like younger population in terms of like wanting to get into entrepreneurship and studying their own businesses, more formal employment. Yeah, so I'd like to tie that with a couple of questions that I noticed. You know, a lot of the questions were around how do we actually tackle industries that are very hardly hit. You know, I think I saw aviation, tourism, and I think a couple more in there. So I think from a magic perspective, like I said, we always position ourselves, or we take pride in the fact that we want to equip people with ideas, right? If you have the right idea, or if you have the right product you think will address a particular problem, please come to us. You know, we actually want to open our doors right now to say that we want to sort of collect these ideas on behalf of the government and we try and help you through this, you know, take you and help you scale bigger, whether it's connecting you with the right kind of training, capacity building programs, and even funding. So we want to facilitate that from that perspective. It could be a startup, it could be an individual, right? So when we talk about these industries, I mean, if you take aviation for that matter, opening up aviation or making aviation safer is probably the most important thing at this point, right? Basically to actually generate economic activities. A lot of people are afraid we can't basically travel between countries because of the, you know, travel restrictions put at this point. So in terms of technology and innovation, what could possibly be those technology that can provide comfort for travelers, right? We want to look at those kind of things, right? If you're talking about, you know, maybe heat sensors, COVID detection at airport, right? Or even say, for instance, I think I read an article where Ayata was proposing a immunity passport, but I don't know if that would work. I really don't know if that could work. But if, you know, if we could come up with innovative solutions to actually make travel safer, right? They were training dogs for detecting COVID. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was in the UK, yeah. Yeah, exactly, right? And similarly tourism, right? So these are big industries which are interrelated. If we cannot find solutions to actually make these industries safer, then we're actually heading towards a real doomsday in that sense, right? A lot of the jobs are also affected. So I think on behalf of the government, I'd actually like to open up that, you know, that sort of application. If you have innovative ideas, if you're thinking of great things that you want to propose to the government, please reach out, right? This is the time that we want to facilitate. So I'd like to, I saw this question, what type of skillset do you think you'd be useful for hot selling in the new job market in future? Yeah. You know, I would say don't focus on the job market, focus on what skills would the future jobs need. I think if we could focus on problem solving skills, you know, multidisciplinary skills, critical thinking skills, creative skills, because you don't know what the tomorrow's problems are. So you can't say this is exactly what the skill you need for tomorrow is. But the general skills that can solve any kind of problem is what is needed at any time. And self learning skills. And that is the primary thing you should be able to figure out and learn. What about you, Poncelera? That fully agree. I fully agree. I think it's about preparing yourself for the future jobs more than anything else, right? And again, it applies to all of us. And again, we can't predict the future, but it's trying to evolve the way we think. And you know, it's an evolution on every front from an industries perspective, from an individual growth perspective, from the way we work, from the way we deliver programs, from the way we operate business models, everything is changing. Again, going back to the point where large businesses, some find that, you know, there's just not much security with startups, large businesses have to scale down. Right? We just, just before getting on the call, we spoke about how big companies are actually reducing office space, literally office space. So that's in anticipation of downsizing, I would say. So I think Tata Consultancy Service said that 75% of employees will be working from home forever. So that means you may not need such large offices that's going to affect the real estate market. It's going to affect so many, you know, again, five house, you can actually think about what, how each next customer would respond. And there are opportunities at every single level. As an entrepreneur, I'm very excited about this time. It sounds awful, but you know, but, but entrepreneurs are looking at not looking at, they're not the, they're not like a half empty or half full guys, they're looking at how do you want it to be? Do you want to fill up the water or empty that I'll charge you for both? You know, so it is an opportunist and then you see opportunity opportunities all over the place. Okay. So yeah, yeah, I think today we talked a lot about like, you know, how COVID has impacted our jobs market today and how we think, you know, that might evolve and the opportunities that we're already seeing right now, especially going into more digitalization, like pivoting in terms of the business model and also how like entrepreneurship or startups, especially around tech innovation startups can create actually a lot of new jobs in the market. And I think the last point that actually that we were just talking about was maybe like one of the more important things that I took away today personally, like that, you know, we're always looking at, we always have this like pre preconception of like how the world works, you know, MNCs have more jobs, startups are more volatile, etc. But I think the most important thing is to remember that, you know, the world is kind of currently changing and it's constantly changing. And I mean, with COVID being around, I think it's a good point to kind of reflect and think about, you know, rather than what is what we see as the world today, what we can do personally to kind of also be adaptable to the changes that might come. I think on this note, like I would like to get us Pondulara and Prof Raj, if you can maybe like just maybe summarize some of the few key takeaways you might want our audiences today to bring home with them as kind of like our final note for today. So I know we had a bunch of questions that the people who registered had posted yesterday and kind of wrote some answers to that because I know we couldn't get to all the questions. So I will post it in the chat. So hopefully, you know, you could copy it and read it or whatever. So it's not working. Okay, anyway, primary takeaway is that we need to create jobs. Otherwise, things are going to get harder and harder and it's going to get messier. Jobs are the point of change. And corporations are not going to create jobs unless the economy is stable, the demand is real. So they're not going to hire millions of people. Governments may create the infrastructure jobs and some jobs that are the bottom end. But imagine all these jobs cost 20 to $50,000 per head to create a job. Okay, if you want to create 300 jobs by building a factory costing 30 million jobs, 30 million dollars, each per head cost is very high. Entrepreneurship is the cheapest way to create jobs because the startup costs are much less. And they already, as I showed, they create the largest amount of jobs in any community. So governments and the government programs need to start talking about entrepreneurship as a move in their policy discussions to see how do we bring in entrepreneurship as a means to create jobs. Absolutely necessary. It is not a good to have thing anymore. That is absolutely the key way to get out of this crisis. So hopefully, ASB has been doing a lot of work in this space in communities and universities and such. We'd really love to help with this thing. And with that, I'd like to ask Ponzi Liner to make her remarks. Thank you, Prof Rajesh. So I guess just to build on from what Prof Rajesh has actually just mentioned, from the government's perspective, take it from me in the sense that we are doing everything in our capacity right now. In fact, more than ever, to emphasize assistance to entrepreneurship. And we know that at this point in time, employment, business opportunities, economic resilience is really the top key focus of the government. And you can see that in all the budget announcement that has been made over the last two months. I think this is probably the largest budget announcement that has been made in a period of two and a half months, which is very, very needed for the economy. It's a stimulus package at the end of the day. However, I think from a market perspective, my key takeaway is this. Innovative solutions, what's needed for the industry or what's needed from the country cannot come from the government. It has to come from the private sector. It has to come from the grassroots in that sense. So think about how to take this period as an opportunity to turn around your ideas. If you're thinking about something innovative that you think can be life-changing, it possibly can. Reach out. Find ways to empower yourself and your organizations to take that ideas forward. And you have various agencies, you have various government organizations that can help you through that period, to facilitate. That's one. But I guess the other key takeaway is you need to always think of ideas, think of products from a user's perspective. In this period, in this period, if you're talking about COVID, you're talking about addressing a pandemic situation. It's really about creating comfort level for the users. You want to be able to sell your idea or sell your products to people that can use it. And when you're using it, it needs to generate comfort. From a safety perspective, from a health perspective, from a travel perspective. So I go back to the two key industries that I mentioned earlier, aviation and tourism. It's possibly the two key industries that are going to move a lot of movement, traffic into the country. Those are the two key industries and we need traffic into the country right now, which is very much restricted because people are afraid. How do we address these things? So if you're thinking about anything around that, please reach out. And I think look at this period as an opportunity. I think Prof Rajesh mentioned many, many examples around how this should actually change our mindset. And it's really about the mindset more than anything else. Sometimes maybe you can turn around. I have people who actually turn around and ask us, you know what, you're in very comfortable cushy positions. You don't have to worry about job security. Again, it's a myth. Job security is a myth. Everyone is in a position right now where tomorrow you may not have a job. It's a world these days. What part of the current stimulus package has been focused on entrepreneurship building? Yeah. So if you see the last announcement, I think there was a huge chunk that was actually announced through loans for small businesses. And recently there was another loan that was actually announced for tech startups. There's actually a very low interest loan that was actually provided through Malaysian debt benches. So there's a lot of lifeline that's been provided for tech startups as well as SMEs. And we also trained them. That's a question. Can you train them? So that's done through the agencies like ourselves. So a lot of us actually do that capacity building and training through our existing budgets. So we're actually re-prioritizing a lot of our programs to actually focus on building resilience. How do we actually help more businesses that are more targeted to building COVID-type solutions? So we recently launched a deep tech boot camp because what we see is that you need a lot more deep tech solutions. You need artificial intelligence. You need blockchain. You need fancy technology to address COVID. Yeah. And I think like I think once Lara, you kind of answered a lot of the questions actually in the Q&A like through your takeaways. And I think that's really important because I guess at least in Malaysia, there is a robust support system actually available. And yeah. And I think in Malaysia, like, there are already the support system. If you actually want to do it, you have to ask yourself like, can go and take action and shift your mindset into one thing to do it. And I think like we've provoked like you said that yeah, there needs to be these programs that are available. And I think there are still a lot of countries out there that are still or in the region that are still figuring this out. And I think like timing in all these revenue itself, it is an opportune moment for governments, companies to actually look at how these ecosystem can be built up to be more robust, so that we can encourage more of these movements into entrepreneurship. So I think on that note, like, thank you to everyone who's come to join us today. Thank you, Prof Raj. Thank you, Puan Zulera. Thank you so much for your time taking time out. And for all of the participants, like we have other programs available through our AFB executive education, if you're more interested, interested in more of these kind of programs, like do go on our website, or you can also scan through our code to leave us some suggestions about what you might like to hear from us. And we look forward to seeing you at the next end. And ASB is really focusing on digital transformation related programs. Please contact ASB and take a look at the website. Okay. Thank you, everyone. Thank you so much. Thank you, Prof Zulera. Thank you, May. Thank you, Rafa Rajesh. Thank you, May. Thank you, Sun, our shadow moderator. Yes. Thank you all so much. Bye-bye.