 and welcome to this week's Night Live Informed and Engaged show. I'm Lushar Bunting, Director of Journalism at Knight Foundation. At this time in history, it is crucial that journalism have more veteran voices. While about 7% of Americans have served in the armed forces, only about 2% of journalists are veterans. The industry can and should do more to create a pathway for veterans looking to continue their life of service through journalism and to ensure the stories of veterans in military affairs are better represented in the media. Today, we are joined by three outstanding veterans who are making significant contributions in journalism. Zach Bedorth, Executive Director and Founder of Military Veterans in Journalism, an organization recently founded to get more veterans in newsrooms. Priya Shreither, a political reporter for NBC7 in San Diego. And Thomas Brennan, Executive Director of the War Horse, a non-profit news organization educating the public on military service, war, and its impact. This is going to be a great discussion and for those watching, please submit your questions on the platform you're using to watch us. On Twitter, please use the hashtag Knight Live. We hope to get to a few of your questions toward the end. First, I want to personally thank each of you for taking time, you know, to join us for this important conversation. So let's dive in, guys. So at the start, I shared the statistic, right? 2% of journalists working in newsrooms today are veterans. I would love to hear really from each of you. What do you think are the biggest barriers for veterans who, you know, are seeking to break into journalism? Zach, I'll start with you. Well, thank you. And I appreciate you meeting this conversation and the support of the Knight Foundation for our efforts. It's been really transformational. So I was in the military and I got out and I'll just share a simple anecdote to sort of demonstrate the need for more military vets in journalism and what media can support that effort. So I applied for a job with the New York Times and part of that application, I self-identified as a disabled veteran. I see that as the strength. But when they brought me in for an interview, one of the folks asked me to detail my disability, which is not physical. So basically what they were doing is asking it's not only intrusive, it's probably an illegal question. There is a nuance there you know, they were I'm proud of my accomplishments and my service despite the challenges that resulted from it. At the same time, there's some shame in the labels and stereotypes that come from these issues. But more than anything, I think what that indicates is a culture that's really ignorant about the military, ignorant about veterans, and for that matter people with disabilities. To be frank, it also speaks about coastal realism. You know, vets don't always go to fancy schools. Vents don't always, they're not always able to afford to live in a city like New York for an internship. So there's a class issue there too. And the military doesn't set its service members up for success in the transition. So there's a lot of systemic challenges that I think we are basically working to overcome. And the result is that Lashara, as you mentioned, veterans are vastly underrepresented in newsrooms. And I remember speaking with the head of a national news outlet who struggled to name three people on his staff who would serve in the military. I mean, frankly, it's pathetic. It's a systemic challenge that needs to be addressed. And if I wasn't if I was producing journalism today, I would be very reticent to bring these challenges to life. Because I would have to be making money and living. And I think it's my obligation now as somebody who's not in my income to call out these inadequacies and to work with outlets like the Times to come up with ways to build opportunities and remedy some of these issues. So that's what we're doing. And most of our veterans in journalism, we're creating opportunities through fellowships, making these sort of things economically feasible, mentorship, career development events. And again, we couldn't do this without support. Yeah, well, we commend you for stepping up to ensure that newsrooms address the systemic issues that you talk about that plague the industry. Priya, I'd love to hear sort of your thoughts about maybe the, you know, what do you think are the biggest barriers? Yeah, I mean, I think journalism is an inherently difficult career path to navigate. I had more of an unconventional story as far as how I got involved in journalism and then also the military. I was a journalist first, and then I joined the military only about five years ago. And I'm actually serving as a public affairs officer in the Navy Reserve. And what I realized really quickly, being in the military is that a lot of these people in that military occupational specialty have a lot of the skill sets that we need in newsrooms, they know how to shoot and edit video, they know how to conduct interviews, they know how to write stories. And like you mentioned, in the beginning, they have a desire to serve their communities, which is the same skill set and the same desires that we have as journalists. And so when I talked to a lot of the young folks about what they were thinking about doing with their lives when they got off of active duty, a lot of them hadn't necessarily thought about what skills they've learned in the military and how that could be translated into a civilian occupation. And the more they heard about journalism as a career path, they thought maybe this is something that I might be interested in. But I think for me specifically, landing a lot of the various jobs that I've had throughout my career, it involved a lot of networking and knowing people at the organization at the different news organizations that you might be interested in applying to and working for, like Zach said, and I think that's kind of the brilliant thing about MBJ. I found out about them scouring social media and I reached out to them to learn more about their mission. And once I heard about that, I felt really compelled to sign on to what they were doing because I think they're creating a smaller world where people who have had similar experiences to them can mentor and guide them and use their network of people that they know to help guide them in the right direction about how do you build a portfolio of work? A lot of the things that these guys are doing in the military, you can use those as examples of your writing and your storytelling abilities. So I think sometimes it's just a matter of figuring out what your skills are and then how to market them to potential employers in the civilian world. Absolutely. That's a great, that's a very good point. Tom, it's just your thoughts on that same question, biggest barriers. I think one of the biggest barriers for me especially was not having any mentors and being afraid to reach out to people that I thought could mentor me when I was getting medically retired back in 2011. Part of my therapy was writing and I wrote a letter to the journalist who had actually covered me being wounded in Afghanistan and ultimately I reached out to the editor that he had worked with at the New York Times for help on just putting commas. I'm still to this day horrible with grammar. He is still a friend of mine to this day. He is arguably the reason why I continued writing and pursuing journalism and eventually publishing a bunch of stories with the Atwar blog at the time. I thought that what the Atwar blog was doing at the time was incredible. It started many careers in journalism. Myself, John Ismay, TM Gibbons Neff, the list goes on and on of post-911 veterans that got their start at the Atwar blog at the New York Times because they made a commitment to giving veterans a voice. Jim Dow who helped found it really saw the value and what veterans could bring to journalism. But a lot of people don't realize the New York Times shut down who are arguably the most profitable newspaper out there right now shut down their Atwar blog this year. I think that just shows the broader commitment and how it's just easily disposable for newsrooms when it comes to veterans and military families. Similarly, the Washington Post used to have a blog called the Checkpoint blog. When war and veterans issues weren't a shiny object anymore that got put off to the wayside. So I think that the lack of visible commitment to accurately covering military and veteran affairs and ensuring that there's insight on the staff from people who have worn the uniform or have lived close to the uniform is arguably the largest barrier. Because it makes people afraid to approach the newsroom and become a part of it. Absolutely. Well Thomas, I want to sort of point to your organization. It seems like a good place to talk about the work that you're doing. So the War Horse which is also a night-funded news organization. You have published some really impactful journalism including recently investigation on how the culture of the Marine Corps silenced a victim of sexual assault and also there was a recent follow-up published today. I also want to point to a really excellent first person narrative from the National Guards and sharing his thoughts and experiences from being at the insurrection at the Capitol. As I was reading those pieces I noticed that there was a lot of depth and nuance in those stories that presumably is driven by the fact that there are veterans who are conceiving these stories, who are editing these stories, who are writing these stories. Talk a little bit about the work that you guys are doing and how you're contributing to increasing or creating a better narrative and a more clear nuance narrative of military. Sure. I like to think that the War Horse is complementary, not competition. Military.com, Military Times, other military focus newsrooms do a great job of breaking news opinion. We like to focus on long form and investigate reporting which we feel is greatly missing from the national conversation. There's a lot of our reporting focuses on failed accountability in the military. The headlines today show that extremism and racism at any level is unacceptable but it's at completely unacceptable levels to where they're putting operational pauses on armed forces. We truly try to focus on the more systemic issues like what Corporal Wu is facing right now where the military has acknowledged time and time again that she's mentally ill. They even approved her for medical retirement but now she's involved in a court martial hearing that to say the least is being conducted without really any professionalism or respect for her as a defendant. We try to focus on the untold stories where there can be positive social impact for the service members and their families. How have you guys worked as a news organization with other mainstream press? Sure. Thank you. Some of the things that we've done involve, we had a multimedia project with Vanity Fair that focused on a Medal of Honor recipient who jumped on a grenade and survived. There's other big name partnerships and projects that we've worked on but some of the things that people don't know are that we also work to support local newsrooms or especially local nonprofit newsrooms who were working on ambitious military reporting projects inside climate news is one that we frequently help. They published a big package with I think it was CBS on climate change and heat injuries. We enjoy serving as advisors because we recognize that there is that lack of that lack of the veteran and military family experience in newsrooms around the country. So until veterans and military families are better represented, Warhorses is here as a resource for newsrooms working on those projects and who don't know where to go. That's excellent. I encourage people to go to the website and read some of the journalism. It's really great. Zach, you talked a little bit about military veterans and journalism. We announced our investment in that back in the fall. Very proud to support that. And also the sort of origin story, what encouraged you to move into that? I would love to hear what have been some of the success stories. Thomas talked a little bit about mentorship and the importance of having that as you're making that transition. What are some really just good examples of how your organization has been able to help both veterans and even newsrooms who are seeking to bring in more veterans? Yeah, great question. Thank you. We are really proud of the partnerships that we've been able to build since we founded the organization in 2019. For example, the Washington Post just announced a military veteran. Thanks to we have a great pipeline of folks just chomping at the bit ready to jump into journalism. And so we're very proud that they've been working with us on that NPR as well, dedicated a spot in their internship program, specifically for a veteran who's done amazing work with them. We have a video journalism workshop ongoing right now in partnership with the Walton Family Foundation, Fujifilm University, Mississippi, and the professor at Columbia University. So we are really excited to be able to be working with a lot of different organizations who are dedicated to supporting the veteran community and diversifying journalism through involving and including veterans. You know, the big impetus, the big reason for it is we are underrepresented and we want to bring those things, these different opportunities to our community. So we have a mentorship program. We have internships and fellowships, like I mentioned. We have various career development events. And, you know, it's just been really amazing to be able to see our community grow. We have about 400 some members now, they're across the country and they are as diverse as the veteran population is. And yeah, it's just it's been a growing experience for us. We're very proud to be doing this work. And so for those people who are watching, who are veterans eager to get into journalism or know someone, should they, how do they become a member? Who's eligible? It's pretty simple, nbj.network, because our website, people can go and sign up. You don't actually have to be a journalist at the moment. You could be somebody who's aspiring to work in journalism. We work with most of our members our early career. They're just looking to break into the door, you know, get through. And yeah, we welcome everybody who's interested and we're there to support them in their career growth. Yeah, yeah. So Priya, I, you talked a little bit about this at the top, but I'm going to ask a journalist to talk about themselves, which I know can be an uncomfortable thing. But you have such an interesting journey, right? You first worked as a journalist and then decided to join the Navy Reserve. I would love to hear about that journey and how maybe that, you know, and approaching it in that ways made you a stronger journalist. Yeah, so it was pretty random, I guess it was through one of my friends who I went to college with, he was enlisted in the Marine Corps when we were in college and then he became a Navy officer. He introduced me to this program called the Direct Commission Officer Program in the Navy, where they essentially try to recruit people from different professional backgrounds to sort of augment the skill set that they have in the Navy. And so he had mentioned to me that they're looking for public affairs officers. And for a lot of the same reasons that, you know, the military also has to engage with the media on a regular basis, whether that's trying to, you know, promote certain things that they're doing or to answer questions about newsworthy events. You know, in the last year, we saw just here in San Diego, we saw the Bonhomme Richard, which was a ship that got caught on fire. We saw the Court Marshall trial of Eddie Gallagher, who was accused of, he was the Navy SEAL chief who was accused of war crimes. We saw the Roosevelt, which was a carrier that left from here in San Diego, was home ported here in San Diego that had a number of COVID cases. So in those instances, the military needs people who can engage with the media and answer questions. So it was interesting because I was essentially recruited into the Navy to help in those efforts. And what I realized pretty quickly was that, like you mentioned, it was enhancing my own reporting and just broadening my horizons as far as the kinds of people that I was interacting with. And it definitely made my view on the world change. Prior to living here in San Diego, I had lived in San Antonio, which is another big military city. There's army bases, there are Air Force bases as well. Here in San Diego, it's a big Navy and Marine Corps town. But just interacting with those people on a regular basis through my drill weekends and then also meeting their friends, they introduced me to a lot of issues that concern them, whether that was housing or, you know, finding a job as a military spouse. And I think especially when you're working in a news organization where a lot of your audience is active duty military or veterans, there are particular things that are of concern to them that I think the media, we have a duty and an obligation to report on those issues. I also think, you know, as Zach kind of mentioned that it's important to have veterans in newsrooms, especially where there's a huge military and veteran audience, because you have people who are going to be able to scrutinize your stories at a completely different level than, you know, perhaps if it was just a civilian population. So I mentioned today that one of the big stories that we're seeing all across national media is the fact that, you know, the defense secretary said they wanted to do sort of a 60 day pause to look into potential extreme extremism within military ranks. And we're seeing a lot of conversations happen after the insurrection at Capitol Hill about the number of veterans who might have been involved in the insurrection and why that might be. And so I think especially when you're having those kinds of editorial conversations in newsrooms, it's important to have the military perspective and someone who maybe wore the uniform who was on the inside who can maybe give better insight as to what they think some of those issues are. That's great. Priya, you break up a really good one. Sorry, could I jump in just for that? I think Priya makes an excellent point and I think sometimes people can view veterans as sort of being surveillance and maybe they wouldn't make good journalists because they're just going to tow the company line. In fact, I mean, I would say it's just been the opposite in my experience. Many veterans who I've, I mean, a lot of my reporting has been very challenging of government and very challenging government perspective. I'm sure it's the same for both Thomas and Priya. So I think when you bring a veteran into a newsroom, you're getting that objectivity and the neutrality and you're getting a lot of questions and they really know the right questions to ask because they've been inside the government. They know what questions are really getting into that. That's an informed skepticism is really going to inform their report. That's a really good point. You know, what other skills do you think that, you know, that maybe you all learned in the military that give you an edge over other journalists, right? And with that question, also sort of in part making a case to news organizations that this is what you need and this is why you need us. I mean, so one thing I'll say also is that I think a lot of civilians sometimes when they look at the military, it seems really big and non-transparent and there are so many acronyms and it's like you're listening to a foreign language and, you know, I've talked about this with Zach a lot that, you know, if you don't know how to navigate that as a reporter, it can be extremely intimidating. So for me, especially now that I'm on the inside of the military, I'm learning so much on a daily basis as far as, you know, what do certain terms, what certain terms mean? And we've had these discussions a lot, you know, we hear oftentimes when we're watching news events that, oh, someone had military training. Well, I think it's important as a reporter to ask what kind of military training that is or, you know, we've had conversations about the terminology a decorated veteran, you know, what does that mean? What does what kind of awards have they won? What kind of deployments were they on? You know, were they actually involved in combat? What was their job in the military? Because there's a wide variety of jobs. And so I think even being able to decipher all of those different acronyms and ask the right questions and not be afraid of saying, you know, to the public affairs officer, perhaps that you're interacting with as a reporter that I might need a different subject matter expert to help me understand this better. I think it just makes the reporting more nuanced like you were saying. And that's what a journalist job is, right, is to be able to explain complicated subject matter to the masses. So, Priya, you touched a little bit on sort of this notion of sort of issues and quality of coverage and Thomas, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, you know, given all that's going on in the world, there's like list everything, right? There's a million things. Where do you think sort of the mainstream media is missing the story? You know, what are the things that they need to be looking at from the military? So, I personally believe that reporters get focused in too much on an individual instance or a single case instead of, you know, taking a step back and recognizing that, you know, military bases are separated all throughout the world, which with increasing news deserts, you know, makes it harder for, you know, news of any issues to travel. So, I think that, you know, looking at the, I'm in a TBI moment and forgot your question. The, you know, what are the sort of issues that you think that news organizations are missing, those sort of stories? Thank you. No, I think it's, I think it's that, you know, a lot of the issues that are represented at one, that you're seeing at one base are actually, you know, more broadly representative of the issues that, you know, the military and the defense department are facing. You know, I, you'll see reporting that focuses on, you know, in the past at the VA, you know, they focused on Phoenix and that being a problem area when really the scandal was that, you know, the VA networks across the entire country were facing that same issue. You know, I think that part of why these stories aren't looked at as more broader systemic issues is that because just like inside of newsrooms, the broader civilian public is disconnected from veterans and military families. And part of why there's such a broad misunderstanding of the issues that we face is because we aren't represented in newsrooms and we're not informing the public. So I think that, you know, we're in this predicament that we're in and people are covering the stories the way that they are because, you know, veterans have never been, well, not going to say never, but, you know, they're not represented in newsrooms the way that they should be, which goes back to the point of like, look at the systemic issue, like don't look at Fort Hood as a singular instance and think that the, you know, problem is only limited to that geographic location. Yeah, and I, if I would love to jump off that point, you know, it seems like right now, obviously, we're facing in the journalism world, a little bit of a credibility problem, you know, you look at those Pew Research reports and it seems like trust in the media is at an all time low. And I think one of the issues is just like the military where there are so many people in the United States who haven't even encountered someone who wears a uniform and that seems like a really foreign concept to them. Those are the same problems that journalists do, where a lot of these people who say that they don't trust the media, they don't know a journalist, they've never met a journalist, they've never spoken to a journalist. And so I think, like most things in the world, including politics, when you have more representation, it helps build credibility. And I think that when there are veterans on the inside of the newsroom, you're able to find that common bond and you are inherently going to trust them more. And I think it's always been really bizarre to me that it seems like there's been somewhat of an adversarial relationship between the military and journalists. A lot of military folks, I talk to say they don't like the way that the military is covered on news organizations because it feels as though they only zero in on extremely rare occurrences of bad apples and those are the portraits that are being played on our televisions at home. And so I think if we do a better job as journalists of covering all aspects of the military, and we have journalists who are veterans who are in the newsrooms who are telling the stories, that's going to help build up a better relationship between journalists and the military too. Absolutely, if I could build on that. The level of combativeness that I've received as a journalist sometimes from public affairs officers in the military, you know, there was maybe a few years ago now, the first woman infantry officer, you know, graduated infantry officer school in the Marine Corps. I pitched doing a profile on her because it's an incredible accomplishment. I'm a fellow infantryman, or I'm a fellow, you know, infantry marine. And I wanted to capture that moment in time. And it was treated like I was writing and it was treated as if it was an expose. And, you know, I was exploring all different kinds of wrongdoing and whatnot. I agree, if they provided more access, I think that the reporting would be more thorough, and it would more broadly accurately reflect the true military experience. But because they've restrict access so much, especially when you don't know about the military or how to push back on that restriction, it complicates people's ability to cover the subject accurately and fairly for that matter. And I think actually military veterans bring a lot to the table when it comes to that because they are going to have contacts within the government. They are going to know how to navigate that system, as Priya said. And, you know, and certainly in my reporting, I was able to pull in a lot of strings basically behind the scenes to be able to get access, to get information, and have a plethora of sources, by the way, that spoke on and off the record. That's great. That is great. So, you know, I think we have to sort of go back a little bit, right? Journalism education. Maybe you come out of the service and you think, let me go to school, let me get a BA or a grad degree in journalism. What role can journalism education play here in helping to bring more veterans into the industry? I'll start with Zach, since I know there's some work with NVJ. Yeah, we're developing partnerships with some schools. Some of them are working provide training, provide that educational opportunity for to leave some with some that's with some skills at the end of the day. Others were developing fellowships, and those are still in the pipeline. So hopefully some good news in the coming months. I think there's a lot of ways that journalism, journalism schools, other educational institutions can get involved in support and better. And broadly speaking, they've been very supportive of getting more vets in their programs. It's tough. Some veterans are coming out of military at different stages in their life and may not be able to study full time. Others are going to be able to go and live off of a basic allowance of housing that's provided by the veterans affairs. So it really depends. Every veteran's path is going to be different. And I think part of the challenge for these institutions is thinking about the different types of veterans that are out there in ways that they can support them. There's no easy fix for this, that's for sure. Any thoughts from you guys, Thomas, Paria on this issue? I personally have only ever experienced, you know, Columbia's involvement of veterans and from what I witnessed it seems to be a great model. I'm not really aware of what other newsrooms or what other journalism schools are doing. I mean, yeah, I think the best education sometimes can be just hands on getting those internships and those fellowships. And I think that's why MBJ is doing a great job of trying to link veterans who have an interest or maybe they have the skill set to getting hands on experience actually in the field. And I think once you see how newsrooms work on a daily basis, that can really give you a sense of what your potential role could be in the industry moving forward. That's great. That's great. I mean, really, there's a lot of opportunities for newsrooms, for journalism schools, from even journalism support organizations, which we haven't really quite talked about, to really step in, you know, organizations like Institute for Non-profit News. I know the National Association for Hispanic Journalists and others have helped in this, you know, in this issue. So I think there's a lot of opportunity there. I don't know if any of you want to speak on that in particular. Well, I think that, you know, with Warhorse in particular, and I think that among other single-subject newsrooms, there's a real opportunity to engage with the audiences that we serve in doing this. But we host, you know, writing seminars that are meant for people, the veterans and military family members that are, you know, coming to writing. They may have an interest in journalism. They may not, but they're meant to make news and journalism more approachable for people who might be hesitant about a way to get involved and whether or not their story has any power. So I think that, you know, trainings and being able to pull back the curtain on what newsrooms are doing, I think everybody here has talked about how we need to restore trust in news. And I think that, you know, we have access as journalists and part of what we can do is share that access with the communities that we serve, so that we're representing them even better. So I'm always a big advocate for trainings and us teaching people what we know so they can understand the news landscape better. I'll say one thing really quickly, too. I get this question all the time about, you know, how to find mentors. And, you know, it's you can look up the news organizations in the town that you live in, and usually most of the reporters have their biographies on the news station's website. So don't be afraid to read those and reach out, you know, most of the time our emails are right in our biographies. And we love hearing from viewers, we love getting tips. And I mean, the thing about this industry is you have to be so passionate about it to survive. So most of us love talking about news and we love hearing from aspiring journalists, or if you have a story and you like a reporter to pursue it. The other thing I will say is that in a lot of the markets where there is a heavy concentration of active duty military or veterans, a lot of the news organizations will have a dedicated military reporter at their local newspaper or at the local TV channels that serve that community. So if you have a military story and you want the local reporter to pursue it, just reach out directly to them. And I bet most of them will respond to you. Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. The only, I believe the reason why I got into journalism was because I was willing to just ask for help that first time and to reach out to a journalist exactly like you're saying. So I would, I stand behind your advice as well. If I could just say one quick thing is that MVJ military veterans and journalism, we love creating partnerships and working with newsrooms, educational institutions, other nonprofits to support the veteran community and I'd love to hear from other folks who might be listening today. So let's thank you for all of that. Those are really great tips and ideas and advice. We're going to go to, we have a question from Twitter. So the Institute of Justice just appealed a SCOTUS case, a Supreme Court case for a vet assaulted, unprovoked on camera by VA hospital police, they say. The vet himself was a law enforcement officer and he wants to hold the police accountable. He can't seem to get media attention. What is the best way to reach veteran reporters? Maybe not even just this incident, but others who are trying to reach out specifically. Thomas, you might be a good person to talk to about that for you please. I mean, honestly, you know, when I, I would think the most successful emails that I received that really kind of piqued my interest on an investigation and lay out some of the facts and the evidence. I mean, if there's a video, you know, can we see it? You know, is there, are there documents? You know, documents are our sources. So coming to a reporter, you know, with some of the work done, or at least an idea of what you think the story is, it is always a good way to get interest. I think, and I think that works for local and national news organizations and journalists as well. The, you know, a three, four page email or it's tough to get through. You know, it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean it makes it less of a story. But if you're able to be succinct and help explain why it matters, you know, what it, that the war horse, you know, we're, we're proud that we fact check everything that we publish heavily scrutinized. So if you have documents and stuff, it always, always, always helps. Absolutely. So we have another question. And I, oh, this is a really good one. How has the government's treatment of veterans impacted your motivation to do your work? And how does that treatment create obstacles for veterans trying to tell their story? I'll start with you, Priya. Yeah. So I mean, I think one of the fundamental things that most journalists say about why we got into this business is to try to give a voice to the voiceless. And I'm not saying that veterans are voiceless, but trying to, you know, report on stories that people perhaps might not be paying any attention to. And I think especially when there's ever any examples of injustice, and we see it a lot, unfortunately, in stories about the veteran population who, you know, have risked everything for our country, not perhaps getting adequate treatment when they're coming back or, you know, having difficulties navigating perhaps the VA system or the healthcare system, yeah, those are particularly noteworthy. And I think it's a journalist's job, right, to make sure that those systems that the government has put in place are working the way that they're supposed to work. And so, I mean, I've done several stories like that in Texas and a few here in California. And I think there are important stories to tell. I would say one of the biggest challenges in covering stories about veterans and the military is oftentimes their reluctance to talk. And it seems like it's sort of ingrained in the military culture to be skeptical of what a journalist's intentions are, even if we might not have any particular motivations, we're simply just looking into something or investigating something. And we want to see what the truth is, like how is this actually trickling down on the ground? Like when a real person walks through the doors of that building, are they getting what the government intended them to get? So, I mean, I think those stories are absolutely really important. And again, just like everything else, if you have personal experience with the system, whether it's through you or a family member or a friend, then you're probably more in tune to cover stories like that, because you're hearing about it firsthand. Yeah, I think for me, a lot of my reporting centers on mental health and how poorly it's addressed in the military and veteran community, I didn't have a good exit from the Marine Corps. I still love the Marine Corps, but when I went through the medical retirement process, I got dragged through the mud and it was an experience that drove me to my suicide attempt the day before, the day of my medical retirement. So I think that for me, stories about mental health failures and knowing one of the first things that you're taught as a leader in the Marine Corps, at least, is to look out for the welfare of your Marines. And I think there's no more fundamental way to ensure that somebody's combat effective than to make sure that they're psychologically well. So whether it's, I'm working on a story about the army, failing to address the mental health of a soldier who became a terrorist. We're looking at sexual assault stories that involve failure to address mental health problems. I think that my personal experiences and then watching others be treated that way is really a lot of what drives my work because we can do better if leadership want to do better. And yeah, we can just do better. And in a way, for me, having been the explosion robbed me of my career in the Marine Corps, but journalism allows me the opportunity to keep looking out for Marines the way that I got to do when I was still in uniform. Wow, that's powerful. Thank you for sharing that, Thomas. Zach, any thoughts on this? I drew from my experience. Most recently, I reported and lived in the Center of the Republic, and I was reporting a lot on US bills right there, a lot on US engagement and other international engagement. And so a lot of my reporting throughout my career has been on foreign affairs, foreign policy, and looking very critically at the United States and its role in the world. And so for me personally, a lot of what I draw upon from my own military service is my time in the military and that time overseas and thinking about our role in the world. So it's absolutely shaped how I look at this and how I've done reporting for COVID. Wow. Thank you. Thank you, Zach, Priya, Thomas, for the work that you do in journalism, for your news organizations, for your organizations, the service that you've given to our country, and also the service that you give to the industry and for the citizens, and keeping us so well informed. We are grateful for all of that. So thank you for joining us today, everyone. I'm so pleased to be able to bring these stories, the work of these amazing people here to everyone watching. Each of you is doing important work to lift up the cause of bringing more veterans in journalism and ensuring their stories are properly told. So again, thank you. So everyone watching, please join us at the same time next Thursday for an episode of Discovery with a conversation led by Knight's Arts team. Thank you for watching.