 You're on we need to translate this into Japanese No one here in Japan understands that a bomb actually saved Japanese in American lives. Well great translated You know get get some of the Japanese objectivists to translate into Japanese and to and to put it out there, but look the morality of of Hiroshima is not about saving Japanese lives The morality of Hiroshima is about saving American lives the job of the American government is to defend American lives now. It's true that in doing so We also saved Probably millions of Japanese lives But that's just a that's just an added bonus It's not what makes it moral morality is not about counting different body counts It's about counting your body counts It's about winning by minimizing your own casualties 75 years ago 75 years ago the United States dropped the first atomic bomb in human history on the city of Hiroshima in Japan somewhere between 60 to 100,000 people Were dead almost instantaneously although some of much of that number the numbers are certain Some of that numbers probably assumes the deaths of people in the days weeks months afterwards from the radiation who did not die instantaneously a few days later the United States dropped a second and indeed the last nuclear bomb to be dropped on Nagasaki another Japanese city a few days after that the Japanese Officially surrendered With no conditions and complete unconditional surrender of the Japanese Which brought about the end of World War two now since that time The dropping of the nuclear bombs the dropping of the atomic bombs has been second-guest Every single year every single day Today one could argue it's not even second-guest anymore Today it is viewed as a atrocity as a war crime as a disaster as horrific as evil There are demands that America in a sense take a knee Apologize for the horror that it had brought the world on those two days With the dropping of the atomic bomb If you go through Twitter and you look at the different comments about The about the 75th anniversary almost all of them almost all of them Depicted as one of the most horrific events ever an event that we should be ashamed of an event that the United States should apologize for an event that we should Remember for its horror And in many of the tweets by the the survive some of the survivors They're getting pretty old now, and they're not going to be survivors soon But people who has children lived through it and are telling stories about it and reminiscing about it. So You know if you look at Hiroshima, I mean everywhere look by the way the the The numbers keep changing, you know, it's it's hard to tell the exact numbers But some way is between 60 to 100,000 Total death probably closer to 100,000 if you count the people who died from the fallout in the months following the the attack So the question is Was this justified Was the attack of an Hiroshima was the topic of the nuclear war bombs the right thing to do should we Use this day as a day of remembrance of the Japanese deaths Or should we use this at the day of amendments to remember the moral courage I? Even say the heroism of an American president Harry Truman who made the decision to drop those bombs Was it the right thing to do? Was it the wrong thing to do? Was it the moral thing to do? Was it the militarily right thing to do or? wasn't it now as People encourage us to use this day to remember the hundreds of thousands of Japanese killed In Hiroshima Let me remind you of something else That on the Pacific World War two in a sense of the Pacific War Didn't begin with the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, but began in 1931 when Japan Occupied Manchuria, which is in northeast China and then attacked China With an attempt to conquer it entirely 1941 of course Japan invaded Thailand Malaysia bomb the US naval base in Pearl Harbor Which is in Hawaii for those who are not sure and of course Korea had been under Japanese occupation since 1910 Not to mention the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore, Burma all to be occupied by the Japanese Now let me just give credit here Whoops, why don't I have his name here to see article doesn't have a name. That's not good All right, I'll get his name in a minute. I'm really I'm using part of my reference here I've got a number of references part of my reference is an article that a an objective is from Europe Send me his name is Alex Which was a research project. He did a few years ago on the dropping of Hiroshima Nagasaki Alex Libok Like Bovici who I think is Romanian Yes, and it was public essay was published in Romanian. I got a translated version in English But Japan by this point 1945 Had been an imperialist powers in 1910 had occupied all those countries and had been savage and brutal in its occupation I Mean the number of people that it had slaughtered in China the rape and pillage that was committed the massacres of civilians are Hard to imagine in the 21st century by 1945 It's estimated there were six million military casualties as a result of the Pacific War of which two million were Japanese two million Japanese soldiers that died During the Pacific War that the Japanese initiated that the Japanese launched 25 million civilians, let me say that again 25 million civilians had been killed Of which one million were Japanese so let's be clear the Japanese killed 24 million civilians all over Asia in China Manchuria Korea Philippines Malaysia Thailand 24 million people and we're not talking about the wounded the maimed Which is usually three to four times those numbers So somewhere around a hundred million people a hundred million people Were maimed injured by the Japanese from 1931 to 1945 The Japanese had initiated violence throughout Asia throughout the Pacific and It launched a brutal attack Against the United States of America in Pearl Harbor. They had declared war on the United States and Tens of thousands of American servicemen had already died He was she my Nagasaki ended that nightmare He was she my Nagasaki ended the nightmare that it resulted in 25 or 31 if you had the soldiers 31 million people dying and maybe a hundred hundred and twenty million people being maimed Now It's horrific to think of 80 a hundred thousand people dying in a day But if we're gonna remember anything we should be remembering the victims of Japanese imperialism we should be remember the victims of Japanese barbarism of Japanese fascism They're the ones who should be remembered It is Japan who began the war It is Japan that sought to conquer the entire Pacific It is Japan that slaughtered people left and right It is Japan That is morally Responsible for every person who died during that war so Do I mourn the people who died and he was she my Nagasaki not really Not really their death is a consequence of their own political leaders efforts To conquer the Pacific Efforts that led to the destruction and death on a massive scale unprecedented scale Scale only matched by the Germans in Europe in terms of numbers of human beings numbers that the sheer quantity of life lost So no, I think it's their victims who should be remembered But you say many of the people in here is human Nagasaki were innocent Sure, of course, they were suddenly the children were But the adults with adults planning to overthrow their own government to stop the horror that they were inflicting on the world With adults sabotaging their own Production as to starve the war machine so that they would stop Slaughtering people all over the world No I'm sorry But adults in any country are morally responsible for the actions of their government It's why I think politics is important It's because whether you like politics or not They impact your life and they speak for you and they act on your behalf and they represent you And if they do something really really bad You suffer the consequences The decisions made by politicians always fold Fallen the shoulders of the population. That's why it's the populations responsibility to fight bad decisions to object to bad decisions And to replace bad politicians to penalize them when their mistakes are bad. This is always the case Politicians don't pay the price you pay the price So no the real horror of World War two is what the Germans and Japanese did in the world The real horror of World War two is what fascism brought to the world Not he was human a gisaki that actually ended the nightmare that actually stopped at all And I know still asked do you view Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor is unprovoked the US was aiding their enemy from their perspective It's cutting off a supplier I mean, this is a You know fascinating question. I'm Rand. I'm Rand believed I think that it was provoked in the sense that the United States stop providing the Japanese with steel and thus Was in a sense helping Japanese Japanese enemies or starving the Japanese from the raw material They needed in order to continue to engage in their war and she believed that FDR probably knew an attack was coming in Pearl Harbor But ignore the warnings because he wanted it to happen because it was the way for him to get into the war And he wanted to go into the war He wanted to get into the war particularly when it came to Europe He wanted to go fight Germany and the American public didn't want that they this was a period of American what was called isolationism, but the idea was we wouldn't interfere in other people's wars, but So he provoked the Japanese in order to attack Pearl Harbor So we could use that as an excuse to go to war with the Japanese and the Germans primarily the Germans So first I don't know that that's true. It certainly could be true and it certainly doesn't I don't think that's a crazy idea But it doesn't change the fact it does not change the fact the Japan initiated war with the United States Stopping trade boycotting Japan is not an act of war now It is an act of determining that the other country is an enemy of yours So I can understand why the Japanese were offended, right? But in it in and of itself It is not the equivalent of bombing killing Mamie now notice What's interesting here? A lot of people say You know we provoke the Japanese to attack us by selling steel to them By not selling still to them and at the same time they say we should boycott China We should raise tariffs on China. We should not sell stuff to China. Oh We should not buy stuff from China. You can't have it both ways Now what's interesting to me is that I ran suggest that maybe it was okay to sell Steel to Japan when Japan was a real threat to the United States and engaging in warfare and mass massacres and destruction all over Asia And that was okay, then I suspect she would say it's okay to trade with China today But the point she was it doesn't matter Japan initiated war with China Japan occupied Korea Japan Attacked Pearl Harbor, but Japan started a war And therefore Japan air all the blood spilt in that war every last Drop of blood spilt in that war Is on Japan It's on their leaders, but it's also on their people the people Who agreed to fight for those leaders the people who agreed to work for those leaders the people who agreed to continue to function in a so-called Civilized society for those leaders It's their fault And if they had to die to end it So be it now. It's really interesting the people so obsessed about you wish you were gonna go suck Because in the months leading up to you wish you were Nagasaki the United States fire bombed not used nuclear weapons, but just used bombs Fire bombed Tokyo and every other major city in Japan with the exception of you wish you were Nagasaki By the time he was she were Nagasaki happened the United States had already killed well over thousand hundred thousand people from the air just in Tokyo They had turned a million people homeless a million people homeless They're destroyed if you look at pictures of Tokyo Once the United States occupies it was flat. It was there was almost nothing there. They were fire bombed and crushed so Americans were already killing massive numbers of civilians in Japan again just a fire believe What difference does it make what kind of weapon you use to kill people? It's the killing that matters, right? All right, so some people said say You know by that point Japan had already lost the war. They weren't gonna win the war. So why bother? Why do this, you know, you could have just kept on going and you would have defeated them well At what cost? How many hundreds of thousands how many hundreds of thousands of American kids would have died Trying to occupy Fight on the shores of Japan. I mean, it's hard to imagine Now you could add in the Japanese casualties. You could add in The Japanese civilians that would have died if the United States had fought on the beaches of Japan You could easily argue and this is not an exaggeration That over a million people would have died if the United States had actually invaded Japan in a conventional Inconventional attack So what is better to use a nuke? and the war by killing 140,000 people let's say or Invade the country and land up having millions of people dead It's just just a math doesn't even add up. Not that I think the math matters Because it's not about math. It's about principle And that principle is in my view and I've written about this you can find it in my article about just war theory The principle is the United States government in fighting a war of self-defense a war. It didn't start It's so responsibility so responsibility is To protect the lives of Americans and it should fight a war to win it fast cheap and With as few American casualties as possible And if that means using a nuke And so be it And so be it and indeed that's what happened in Japan. We won that war and as I'll get to we also won the peace Where all those Japanese people hating us Blowing themselves up to kill Americans as revenge Why didn't that happen? Hmm Just to give you an illustration of The kind of casualties that would have been involved in a few weeks before he was shima An island of e ojima that was defended by 21,000 Japanese The United States suffered seven thousand dead 20,000 wounded, you know almost all the Japanese died Now to defend Japan You would be facing at least two million Japanese soldiers huge quantities huge quantities of Civilians they would have all died the Japanese soldiers, you know a significant number the two million dollars It's just it's just ridiculous the whole thing is just ridiculous The whole way of approaching this is ridiculous If you can win a war fast you win a war fast if you can win a war by Killing their population in order to save your troops You kill their population you kill their population All right Jennifer asked do you think the relative peace the world has had since was the result of dropping the bomb? Yes, I do I Mean one of the reasons Japan has become Peaceful and has a fantastic constitution and as relative free markets is Because of the we dropped the bombs and Then once the war the world saw what bombs could do It was obvious that you don't want to take on the United States You didn't want to risk having bombs dropped on you So I think that kept at Bay the Russians It makes the Chinese thinks twice about anything they might do So any Country is not going to go to war with the United States. I mean the wars that the United States has engaged when Since World War two have been wars that it chose to engage in by sending troops far away Not wars that it had to fight not wars of self-defense was that it got involved in for no reason Korea Vietnam even I would argue The first Gulf War and then when it did one, you know fight wars It is fought weekly pathetically lost Not used nukes and he'd not used the might of the American military force at all and as a consequence What has happened as a consequence the United States have lost those wars and as a consequence the the world has become In many respects less safe not more safe Because people don't fear the United States anymore They worry about the United States anymore. So invading Japan Was really not an option. Some people say oh, but the Russians had just entered the Pacific frontier And the Russians would have taken them out really The Russians had just lost. I don't know 20 million people in Europe The Military was completely depleted The only reason the Russians had a military was because it was supplied by the Americans Imagine if the Russians indeed had sent in troops and occupied Japan. First of all without any question Many more and more Japanese would have died than died and he was human a gisaki But secondly Japan would have been communist. Is that a good outcome? You know, I'm gonna hire a communist to fight your battles It's bad enough in my view that we did that in Europe that we allowed the Russians to fight our war That we supported the Russians that we promoted Stalin and handed All of Eastern Europe to him. So no The idea that Russia was gonna do it would be bizarre There's a claim that we shouldn't have dropped the second bomb because by the first They were about to surrender There's actually very thin evidence about this They were stood the Japanese were still debating it But both and while they were significant voices in Japan Supporting surrender the Japanese government itself was not unanimous after Hiroshima While the civilians wanted to surrender the military did not and the emperor refused Only after they saw it a second time only they after they saw the Americans willingness to continue Even though they didn't know that we had no more bombs I think there were only three bombs the test bomb that we did in in Where was it in New Mexico and the two bombs and he was human a gisaki. They didn't know there were no more But they didn't take the risk They didn't take the risk It's only after the second ball bomb they completely convinced the Japanese that they had no chance No chance what so if I remember the thing the effect of these nukes Was not so much Just to defeat the Japanese It was to shock them into defeat. It was to shock them into submission It was to shock them onto their knees and Being on their knees is really really crucial for the peace that came afterwards. We'll get to that in a minute You know people argue. Oh, we could have had peace talks Peace talks would have just led to a ceasefire Which would have led to a rise in Japanese imperialism five years later because they would have thought we never lost the war We could still win we can still do it Which is what happened by the way to Germany after World War one. It wasn't thoroughly smashed It wasn't thoroughly defeated. It wasn't crushed and brought to their knees. So what happened? They waited for the opportunity to launch a second war which is World War two if we'd crushed them in World War one Not clear. There would have been a World War two or if America had never entered World War one and we'd let it go on forever Maybe they never would have been a World War two Some people talk about maybe the United States should have less stringent terms but again What led to the peace was the fact that the United States Demanded and accepted and received unconditional surrender. So no in my view Every year An anniversary of Hiroshima The Japanese government should send a letter to the United States people thanking us for dropping that bomb It is that bomb not only that ended the war for the Japanese as well as for us But that created modern Japan that brought about The peace and stability and prosperity and wealth the Japanese society has created since then because What happened after the surrender? Well, what happened was that The Japanese gave up They gave up all pretense They gave up the idea that they would rule Asia They gave up the sense of racial cultural superiority They gave up on those aspects of the culture and what did they embrace? They embraced what to a logic center at some extent at least what the Americans left them with so one of the interesting things about the American occupation of Japan is That as part of the occupation a constitution was written a new constitution that established the modern Japanese country modern Japanese state and Who wrote that constitution? Well, not the Japanese McCarthy had no patience for the Japanese Constitution he had no patience for a Resurrection of the old Japanese system So general MacArthur and one of his assistants sat down and they wrote the Japanese constitution and You know, one of the one of the things that they did was that they ultimately Didn't prosecute the emperor which they were planning to do and in exchange the emperor endorsed the constitution and This is a constitution that for example in the Constitution it says That all individuals has an illegal way to life liberty in the pursuit of happiness in their constitution They created a form of government. They created a system of government They would become a constitutional government that has led to incredible prosperity and peace in Asia particularly in Japan so The Japanese are far far better off If having ended the end of the war quickly and quickly 1945 is late having not had to fight on Japanese soil for ending it with a shock to the system so that they were open to Accepting a constitution the MacArthur basically Forced on them and the Japanese don't hate us Because the realization that the Japanese came to was that they were wrong They were wrong They'd engage in activities or unjustified They shouldn't have launched a war that they shouldn't have done what they did They swore never to do it again and that kind of educational benefit if you will Sometimes you need a shock to the system to get that Sometimes you need not sometimes always you need to thoroughly defeat your enemies if you're gonna if you're gonna establish that All right, so What are kind of the lessons for today? Well the lessons for today. I mean I've written about extensively. I encourage you to read Winning non-winnable war edited by Lanjano where I have three essays and he knows this is articulate the case for fighting the war against Islamism which was post 9 11, which was the war that America needed to fight Properly, which means brutally, which means To crush the enemy To bring them to their knees The only way Islam will go away is if it is defeated Thoroughly unequivocally. It's only when they know they cannot win Well, they change their ways and we could do that easily and quickly and thoroughly And we still might have to because Islamism is not gone Iran is still there his Balai is still there Iraq and Syria are still areas in which tourists Jihadis are being trained sponsored supported We will have to fight another day but the only way The only way to fight Is to win and To win so thoroughly That the enemy has to question their beliefs. That's what's happened in Japan. That's what needs to happen in the Middle East and eat It's the only way You could end the threat of Islamism and for those of you and I know there are many of you who are skeptical Oh, Islam is always gonna be evil. Islam is always gonna center us You know, you can't defeat them over there. You have to build walls and protect yourself from the evil Muslims Look how many terrorists attacks they're being since ISIS has been defeated It wasn't even that thorough. It wasn't even that brutal. It wasn't even that systematic And yet look people don't strap on bombs Don't commit suicide not in large numbers for losing cause Make Islamism a losing cause Just like the no Japanese suicide bombers today There'll be no Islamic suicide bombers if you make the cause of losing one and if they know With confidence that you will make their cause a losing cause What we need today what I called a new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think Meaning any man or woman who knows that men's life must be guided by reason By the intellect not by feelings wishes women's or mystic revelations Any man or woman who values his life and who does not get want to give in to today's of the spare cynicism and impotence and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the Collectivist Before we go on reminder, please like the show. We've got a hundred and sixty three live listeners right now 30 likes That should be at least a hundred. 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