 All right. Welcome to the podcast on today's show with Jim from HypeRice. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me, Diego. For the small amount of people who don't know what your company does, give them like a quick window what you guys are focused on. Yeah, I'd say high performance wellness. So if you think about the recovery category, we make innovative products for athletes to help them prevent injury, to perform, to increase longevity and performance. Okay. There's a couple of reasons I want to talk to you. One of which is recovery is such a new term. It can be considered a new term. And so when you guys are coming to market, what was that resistance like just in terms of explaining the recovery system, the total addressable market, people are like, you're crazy probably. What was that? What was that like? Yeah. And it's a great and fun question. Because when we started raising money really in the early stages, people, we had big time investors that came to us and said, Hey, this maybe there's a $10 million market in recovery. Like this is very niche, right? And our position was, look, when you see what's happening in training, there's a lot of athletes now that are overtraining and their body starting break down teams and organizations are starting to think about how do I optimize longevity to put my multimillion dollar asset on the field, the Bron James, Kobe Bryant, whoever it is, right? So I think in the early stages, it was really all around performance and it hadn't spilled over to the everyday consumer and it's starting to spill over now. It's been about 10 years for us of heavy education to try to get people to understand that products and technology can actually impact the physiology of the human body and it can help you live better and move better. So that is part of the mission statement, help everybody on earth live better and move better. I love that. And then let's talk about the name. How did the name come to be? It's a fun story. Oh, it is a great story. So founder of the company, I'm the CEO. So founder Anthony Katz, still very involved president of the organization. He was a high school teacher and a basketball coach, got into his 30s. His body started to break down. He loved playing pickup basketball. That was his thing. Body started to break down and he started to realize, I can't do the things I love anymore. There's got to be something around recovery. Breaking on the inside, just hearing this. So he said, okay, well, he started doing some research. What is recovery? And there really wasn't much in recovery. This is 2012 other than icing. People knew about icing as the pillar of recovery. So he said, I'm going to set out to create a technology driven ICER, which was our ice compression device. So he started out and said, you know, what are we doing to ice? It's very old school. You put something around your shoulder or your elbow or whatever it is and you wrap it up and the ice melts and it's sloppy or whatever it was. So he set out to create the world's most innovative ice compression technology. Got the early stages, went to an aerospace engineer, said we need to design something interesting. One of his friends was a trainer for Kobe Bryant and said, hey, you should really talk to Kobe here about this product. And Anthony said, Kobe's my favorite athlete. He was born in Laguna Beach. Love the Lakers. I got to meet him. This is going to be awesome. Got that meeting, presented the product, Kobe looked at it and said, hey, this is an early prototype, but this isn't good enough, right? You got a lot of work to do. But if you can make this a great product that's ergonomic, that's sophisticated, that has these same core elements all wear on the sidelines. And he was inspired, went back to the aerospace company, scoured the earth for components that could develop this product, represented it to Kobe numerous times. Finally, Kobe said, this is great. I'll wear it on sidelines, wore it during a big game for the Lakers, got national exposure. And from there, we had almost all the elite NBA players calling him, pay there's this guy out of his car. He's making this ice compression device. You've got to call Anthony. And it started to spread. So the name hyper ice is actually inspired by Kobe's hyper dunk Nike shoe. So hyper dunk, hyper ice, icing being the pillar recovery. That's amazing. Yeah, it's a great story. When you got involved with the company, so you got involved 2014? 2014 January. So what did you see? So the beautiful thing is you get to analyze this company, spend time with the founders, understand the cap table. What did you see just in relation to maybe the vertical? And then also, what did you see specifically about this company that you thought this is something I'm going to spend a lot of time with? Yeah, so a couple of interesting elements that question. One is they actually didn't show me the full set of financials intentionally. I think because it was early and then we joke about this now. I got a very limited set. I think if I would have seen the actual financials at the time, I may not be here right now, right? But Anthony and I met for lunch and it actually was kind of happenstance. We were introduced by someone who now works at hyper ice, one of our EVPs. But at the time, I had accepted another role as a chief marketing role. I was going to go to Silicon Valley and work for this sensor tech company. And someone said, hey, you should have this meeting with me. Like a wearable? Yeah, it was kind of a wearable technology that connected into sports. Interesting. There were some Apple people involved in the company. It was early stage. So Joe Cannon works with us now introduced Anthony and I just said, you guys should have lunch. There's no reason Jim has a business experience, has a lot of business experience. Anthony has a really cool idea and it's getting out there on the brand side. You guys should just meet, you know, maybe you'll vibe. So just had a lunch, no intention behind it. And I had been working in the concussion space prior in the sports technology sector for seven or eight years and had been interacting with a lot of athletes. So I was hearing a lot about recovery and training and this is going to be the next wave of what happens in the sports space. And so when we met, we really aligned on, can we make this a technology company? There are a lot of sporting goods companies in the space and we said, can we make this more of like an Apple, Tesla combination with Nike? And we committed at that time to be inspired by developing one to two really innovative products every year that could change the physiology of the body. So I think the vision around the space and the idea that recovery could become mainstream was something that we aligned on really early on and one of the reasons that I joined. That's amazing. And how many products of the company have at that time? One product. One product. One product. The hypervolt. It was actually the ice compression device. Wow. So there's no electronics in that device yet. Okay. And so you came on and then what are the next two products you guys work on? So the first product that I came on, there were six employees at the time. Wow. It was very small. We were doing around 400,000 in revenue. Do you miss those days in some way? I'll tell you, I'll give you an insight. Why? I had a technology company and there was three of us working on it alone for probably a year and a half. And we had like, we were in one bedroom apartment, whiteboards everywhere. And I was like, you know, this is going to be really cool one day. Like this is going to be the moment. Because the three of you, when you have a small team, you can all be honest with each other, very honest with each other. As the team grows, you have to be a little more professional, you know? And so it changes a little bit. Yeah. Do you miss that? I think that financially, no. I like where we're at more now, but I do think that at the time, there really was nothing in this space. And it was just blank space, open opportunities. So we really were forging new paths. And we're doing that now, but the recovery category is getting bigger and stronger. And people understand at the time it was, how do we get the everyday consumer to even grasp what we're trying to communicate here? Right. And there was so much creativity needed in the really early stages on just not only developing great products, but how do we build a sustainable category? So I miss that. And there's a lot of people. But what's interesting is of the first 15 employees that we had, you know, in 2014, I think we ended the year somewhere between 12 and 15, we still have like nine of them. So there's a lot of people that have been here since the very early stages that still have that knowledge. And so we get to work with them every day. And they contribute to the, you know, to the success of the company. When it comes to the early days of any business, especially in your, I guess, in the recovery space, there's so many things that seem like the right answer, seem like the right way, seem like, oh, let's just have this athlete promote it. Let's do this. Let's do retail. How did you guys decide on what to do? Like, and what worked? Actually, a big move for us, and this was the positioning of the company, because I mentioned there were sporting goods companies that were kind of doing something in recovery, right? You had like braces and things like that. We wanted to transition into technology. So we went on Kickstarter really early with our first consumer electronics product. There's a throwback. It is. And it was intentional, not necessarily because we needed to go on there and crowdfund, but it was more around positioning the company into technology and electronics and away from sporting goods. And it worked. We got covered by Gizmodo, Wired Magazine, and it started to lay the groundwork for this is going to be an innovation company and not, you know, kind of a sporting goods predecessor, so to speak. So I think that piece really helped separate us and also grab the interest of retailers, distribution partners like Equinox, Lifetime Fitness, places like that where we could then deliver our product and experiences to new user groups outside of sports performance. What were the next few years? What were the next few products after that that you guys developed? So we launched the Venom, which the product after the Viper, which was our high-intensity vibration roller, was the Hypersphere. So that's the product we have right here showcased beautifully. Thank you. Everybody loves this product, by the way. It's just off air. I was telling you that our whole tennis club has this product. Oh, really? They carry it in their tennis bag and they're all like, yeah, you got to get one of these. And so thank you for mailing one over. But for people who don't know, tell them what it is. Yeah. So this product is a high-intensity vibration roller. So it really helps with circulation, myofascial release. And it's a popular product. It's actually not one of our top three or four products, but it's still, you know, it's an important product in performance and fitness. But this product followed the Viper and it was a similar modality, delivering vibration, combination of vibration and pressure. But one of the big changers for us was the Venom that we launched in 2016, which was a heat and vibration device for the lower back. And we actually got a lot of feedback from our athletes around heat. And that product, you know, was really innovative at the time and started to get into the general consumer because people have lower back pain. And this was something that could relieve lower back pain and create more movement for people. When you guys are obviously big with leagues, the NBA, the NFL, how difficult is that to maneuver? For example, these are big brands and so they might be cognizant or they might have some apprehension as it relates to partnering or seemingly what could appear to be a partnership. What are these transactions actually like? They're a combination. So for us, we had a variety of the leagues that invested in the business. So we had a Series A round and the NFL participated in that. And then we had Major League Baseball and the NBA also participate in, you know, financial rounds. That's totally legal. That's huge. Wow. Yeah. And that's good because there's a natural incentive there. And then we did commercial deals to maximize exposure. You leverage their platforms to help get the branding and the products on field, on court, on the sidelines. So that was big for us specifically during the first partnership we did was in the NBA during the bubble. And it was actually one of my top five favorite things we ever did. We built the hypervolt into the chairs courtside for all the players. And during the bubble where the NBA kind of owned the facility, it was built. And so every player during the game was just using the hypervolt, LeBron, Steph Curry, everybody. And it really garnered a lot of attention. And so for the most part, I guess if they're investing, it's a no brainer. It seems, yeah, everybody wins on that front. Yeah. For us, it was really about maximizing TV exposure, right? Because we are a unique product that can actually be integrated into the game. When you think about like Beats by Dre, they did a great job in pro sports, but you can't wear headphones on the sidelines during a game. You wear pre and post. Our products, because they're performance products, you can use them in game. So very unique proposition there to say, how do we, how do we very innovatively bring these products into the game to elevate performance? And then the win for the leagues is we want to keep our multimillion-dollar assets on the field. So this is good for the sport. If Mahomes is playing every Sunday. Don't go in the locker room and do your, yeah, that's true. Do some recovery on the sidelines. Exactly. So there was a natural fit. It was great for the leagues to help their product continue to perform, so to speak. And it was also a unique story between the two brands on how do we, we care about our athletes, we care about our players and we want to provide the best tools and technologies to optimize longevity. How difficult was it arriving at your price point? A lot of consumer testing, some guessing candidly, because there's nothing like it. Totally. Yeah. So you're investing a category. You're hoping there's a margin, but what are people willing to pay? Exactly. Yeah. And the big product for us that really took the company into the next kind of stratosphere was the launch of the Hypervolt in 2018. We had built the ground kind of the framework of distribution, connection with elite athletes, but that product, which was the, you know, the world's first percussion device that was powerful, quiet, had all the elements around it, took the company essentially from 10 million to 142 million in a 24 month period. Wow. So we went 14X in 24 months off the launch of that product. The hero product. Yep. That's incredible. Do you see any signals of that with any of the other products you have? Normatech. And that was an acquisition for us, but that was a product line that we acquired, we acquired that company. That's the compression, pants, sleeves, compression boots. Compression boots. Yeah. I've actually used them. I play a lot of tennis and I've used them. We had a physio come over and he was giving everyone a, like a free demo of it. Nice. Yeah. It was pretty solid. Yeah. That's one that is starting to get into the mainstream now. It started out as sports performance and medical product and was really strong in endurance categories. And we've tripled the revenue on that line over the last three and a half years. And it's starting to, to your point, spill over into the masses and become more of a wellness product. When you think about just the innovation from your company's perspective, who do you partner with? Are you partnering with like, so you mentioned before the concussion, the NFL is actually amazing in terms of like cutting edge stuff. They'll try anything, every little advantage works. And so how do you sort of create these products today? Is it scientists? Is it athletes? What is the, how do you do it? Yeah. So a couple, a couple elements here. And this is a big differentiator. I'm glad he asked this question. One, we have a really good product development team internally, very creative in the acquisitions that we had of Normatech and Hyper-IceX. We brought those full teams in-house. So we have, you know, former CEOs and advanced product developers that are now on the Hyper-Ice team developing innovations. I mean, Anthony also who's a product developer. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And so you have like the, the melding of both of these. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that was big. And then I think the early roots of the company and the DNA really is sports performance, right? And the relationships we had with the teams and athletes is instrumental in product development because if you think about it, if you're a professional sports franchise, you need to keep your multimillion dollar assets on the field. So you're going to have the best performance experts, the best physios, the best trainers, the best technology to keep LeBron on the court, to keep Mahomes on the field, right? So if we could use that as a proving ground, we not only knew that the products would be great for the everyday consumer, but we created relationships where they could help us see around the corner. So a lot of our advisory board is made up of performance experts in the pro sports channels who are constantly working with us on product development, giving us insight into new modalities and things that we can do to help the human body. Yeah. Right. When you think about the future, and so we, sometimes we have these conversations on the podcast with like mental, everything's about mental, right? And so it's like the elite athletes have a mental coach, somebody helping them get their breathing under control, understand the pressure of the moment, but helping them like perform. Obviously you have this product here. I think it's called core. Clearly you're moving in a direction. This feels like it might be it. How much of this, do you spend your time thinking about the mental side of sport? Yeah. It's really important. We always knew we wanted to be in mental wellness in some capacity. We didn't know. We had to make sure that it was something that was on brand for us. Like we didn't just want to do an app. So this is actually a product that has sensors built in that tracks your meditation and breath training and provides insight using data analytics around how your body's responding physiologically. But for us, we had athletes like Roy McElroy and Naomi Osaka, who have been very outspoken about mental wellness, right? And the importance of it. And they're both shareholders and investors in the company. So we listened to them, you know, heard about how important it was in the pro sports world. And we required this company in 2021. So we do believe that there's, you know, a unique connection there between the physical and the mental. Of course, you got to be in the right state to be able to recover properly. And this is also, you know, a big part of, I think, the general wellness space. So how does it work? Give people a window into this product? Yes. You hold the device. It has biosensors built in that measures your body's response to meditation and breath training. And you'd go through kind of an app experience. And it tracks your behavior over time and coaches you on how to have more effective breath training and meditation. And then it uses haptics to guide you lights and vibrations. Yep. When it comes to how you view the future of your business in terms of like, so here you are 14x, super successful in terms of growth. You clearly have a couple of others that, you know, work for you. Sounds like partnering with the league was ridiculous. How do you try to recreate that growth? Is it like partnering with the Olympics? Like what is, how do you, like what keeps you up at night in terms of how do you continue to sustain? And obviously you go back to the core of the company. I get that. But what levers do you see for growth for your business? Yeah. So I think what we've learned now, and we did a lot of partnerships and athlete relationships and league relationships early on. And I think it was really instrumental and helpful at the time. But it's not necessarily, necessarily the lever for our next wave of growth, right? Now we've developed this reputation of, you know, humbly of innovation, performance. And the company's done a good job seeing around the corner. So I think what keeps us up at night is we got to continue to keep that reputation. To build the brand. Product development and making sure that we're thinking about new modalities, advancing the science around the space, constantly being cutting edge, not only next year, but we need to now start thinking five, six years out if we want to lead this category. So it's, you know, it's a constant, constant kind of groupthink within the organization on what is the next modality? Like let's vet that. Do we buy this company? Do we put more resources into this certain technology and try to advance this? Is this in our wheelhouse or not? We got to pass. We have to be very selective on what really fits into the DNA of the company. Where do you think most of the consumers meet you? I think it's a combination right now of sports and endurance and wellness and fitness, right? So if you're going into an equinox, an orange theory, a lifetime fitness, an LA fitness, a berries, you're our core consumer. If you're participating in an Ironman, if you're going and doing, you know, writing as a cyclist or whatever it is, you're a core consumer. We're also moving into hospitality a bit more. So if you go into the Weston, any Weston in the U.S., you can actually rent our products to your room. So you call down and they bring you Normatex and they bring you hypervolts into your room. So there's a big shift there. Obviously retail, the best buys and REIs are places where our consumer shop. So those are key channels for us. The wellness in general is just people are getting more educated on the importance of longevity. That's longevity is a huge trend right now. I would say recovery was the buzzword four years ago and longevity is now becoming a pretty big buzzword. Yeah, here I am with the cold plunge out there. It's like the craziest thing. People ask me, why do you have it? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like Instagram convinced me. And then I did it and I loved it. And now there's all these places popping up where you can do hot and cold immersion therapy and there's even different ways they attack the market in that way. And so I look at that sometimes and I go, okay, there must be a, there's definitely going to be an equinox of hot and cold. Then there's going to be a planet fitness of hot and cold also where it's like, no fuss. You come in, you do your thing and you get out and it's cheap and it's on a membership model. And obviously partnerships for you guys exist or can exist in that space also. Do you have any fun athlete stories? Like your favorite story on maybe converting an athlete into an investor, maybe something that you learned from an athlete that really changed the game? Yeah, we have a bunch. Just a real funny one though. This is the early stages. So we were raising money in 2014. I just started. It was six months, maybe four months into the job and the company needed cash, right? It was early stage startup mode. I just started and part of the role was we got to raise some money and capitalize this correctly. And so we were out there talking to athletes and different groups and such and we had one athlete who was UFC fighter. His name was Jake Ellenberger at the time and he was looking to invest and it was a Friday. I walked into the office. We had a controller at the time and she was kind of looking at me like, hey, we're getting short on payroll here, right? Like it's going to be really tight. Like you got a solution. I'm like called Jake up and like, hey, are you investing? He said, I really need you to come through on this one. He's like, yeah, man, I'm going to do it. I'm like, all right, if you got to do it, you got to do it now, right? So he came into the office, wrote a check. I took that check. We literally, I ran like three red lights to get to the bank to catch the check on a Friday. So we'd make Monday payroll. So that was like an athlete story. But I think that Christian McCaffrey, Patrick Mahomes, Lindsey Vaughn, Naomi Osaka and Rory have all in Erling Haaland have all been really involved in product development. That's awesome. They're like, hey, send me the latest stuff. We want, we want to give you feedback on it early on. Like, hey, do you have anything you can send me? Right? They want it early and they want to provide feedback. They're really into the science. And we actually, during last year's Super Bowl, when, you know, Patrick Mahomes hurt his ankle, we had a version of one of our products that isn't even out yet that he was using to help recover. So what's really cool and unique and one of the fun parts of the job, there's a lot of fun parts, but one of them is just this relationship that the company has with athletes and how much they want to contribute to the movement. Because it's not really a sponsorship for them. Right? It's more of a partnership because these things they're using every day organically. Right? And if they can contribute to the next device or the next modality, like they bring pride in that. They, you know, they feel like they're part of it, which is really important. That's how I feel about my sports barn some way that I told you about. It's like, it's not the money that I'm after. We can find plenty of money to facilitate this whole deal. It's more about I want your involvement in a way that it's different when it comes to a physical asset, you know? And I think, I mean, I shared a lot of it with you, but I think it hits. Like, I think people get it. Like, oh, this is extremely different. And so they want to be a part of it. And what I want is really their time, you know? And for them to really sort of enjoy that. And your guys' idea is really cool on the sports bar. I appreciate that. The world doesn't know yet, but they will soon. I will be a customer. What's on deck for 2024? 2024. So we have some big announcements coming in the middle of the year around the Olympics. So we have a couple of really unique things coming there that are going to be big. Like for example, the event at our sports bar at the Olympics. That's a big announcement. Here we are teasing it. Yep. I love it. I love it. So that's going to be big. I think that our innovation roadmap, I've been with the company 10 years. I think my 10 year date is February 1st. So happy anniversary. Almost there. Yeah. Wow. I've never felt so strongly about the innovation roadmap. Like some of the technologies coming over the next 24 to 36 months are groundbreaking, right? There are things you may not expect from us, right? But that's because they're very innovative and can be very disruptive. So I think it's going to be, it's going to be really fun. And I think also the international side of the business is really interesting, right? Some of the things that are going on in the UK and Canada and Japan, right? And the opportunities there because we're not as far as we are there as in the U.S. because the wellness trend, you know, I'd say it's trailing a little bit in some of those territories. And so there's a lot of white space there for us. When you think about just your position. So being a CEO is difficult in general. Being brought in as a CEO, you being there 10 years is also extremely difficult. I would imagine. And so do you personally feel any pressure in terms of the company's a different company? You've basically brought it, let's say 10X to 14X, 20X that already. And so do you feel any pressure? Do you feel like it might be time to let someone else in? Or are you good? Are you in like a good spot? I'm in a good spot. I love what I do. I have a passion for this. I think that, you know, for me, the intersection of sport, business and technology is like what jacks me up. So Sunday night comes and I'm like, I'm fired up. I'm ready to go Monday morning. And it's also, and I say this to our employees all the time, like this is because the culture of the company, I believe is really good. Like we have a lot of pro athletes, former pro athletes, college athletes, so people get the team aspect and the collaboration aspect. But I always say to our team like, Hey, look, if you ever wake up in the morning and you're not passionate about this, or there's something else you love, or your passion, your heart just isn't here, your mind's not here or whatever, like that's okay. Go do what you love. Like I'll be the first one to support you in that role if you want to transition. So that's the same way I feel about it myself. Like if I wake up one day and I'm like, look, this isn't me anymore. Like I'm not as passionate about it as I was the first day I started. Then, you know, I'd make that decision. But right now I feel like I'm probably more fired up than I ever been. That's awesome. Yeah. There's something for me that I've learned about that just being involved in the sports bar concept that I think like I wrote off sports for a while and how fun they actually are. But via this project, I'm just like falling in love with it. And I'm realizing how much of it's going to sound silly, but how much of sport and culture are really intertwined. And it's amazing. You know, it's like really, really actually amazing. And in some way when I was back in tech, I felt like when I was in tech, I had the pulse of it. I had the pulse of what was going to change people's lives. And I was in it. And then today, it just feels like I have a different pulse, but it's similar where these things do change people's lives. They feel antiquated, but they're very much not, they're very much a part of the everyday, everybody's reality. And so it's like it's making me fall in love with sport in a whole another way that I didn't know existed. And then, and then that's driving more creativity. Like, well, what else can we do here? Right? Like the memorabilia stuff, what else can we do that feels really interesting and innovative despite it feeling like an antiquated thing? Totally. Yeah. And that's something that fires. It's fun. It is. And you know what it is too? Like hearing the concept you have, which I love and, you know, can't wait to be a part of it in any capacity, whether it's high price, doing events or whatever it is, but sport in general evokes a lot of emotion, right? And so because of that, if you play that emotion right in business ventures, right, you get a lot of people wanting to contribute because it's exciting. It's fun. There's an emotion to it. People love sport, whether it's a team or a league or whatever it is. And so it's easy to rally people together and build communities. And I mean, that's why a lot of, you know, sports technologies and companies around it scale fast. Yeah. I remember there's one lawyer, I was talking to, he's like reviewing the documents. And he's like, this is so risky. What are you doing? And he'd call me like once a week just to kind of yell at me about like reminding me how risky this holding was. And I was like, Jesse, like, you don't have to, I don't, we don't need your money. Like, you know, I appreciate the calls, but like you, you don't need to invest. And then on the third call, he says to me, but you don't understand, it's just always been my childhood dream to own a sports car. I love it. And I'm like, it's that simple. I love it. I'm like, here you are adding so much sophistication. I'm like, just feed the kid inside of you. Totally. You know? And he's like, all right, fine. And I just, I'll never forget that. It was just hilarious that he was so, he went against his, you know, his smarts, I guess, because he didn't, you know, it is risky. I'm like, but we're going to be fine. And obviously it's been de-risk since, but I just remember that. When you think about sports in general today, like pickleball or any of these sort of emerging sports are, you know, I play a lot of tennis. So I view tennis as sort of a, it's still a growing sport. I sort of view it as a young, it's got a long way to go still in my opinion. And I think it's coming on the more you get like the personalities of whether it's Osaka or Cocoa golf today. Like there's more personalities emerging in the sport. Do you see any sports in particular, maybe it's pickleball, I don't know, as like a lane for you guys to reach a new audience? Yeah, we do. And I was up late watching Cocoa last night too. And then Alcoraz is on tonight. So I'm excited about that. But, but yes. So we actually partnered with the PPA, which is the professional pickleball association recently. And it's interesting to me as I step back and just look at all the partnerships we've done in the past with the NFL and Major League Baseball and all those. And then we come to pickleball. And the reason for doing it is very different, right? You think about the NBA for us there, it was, I mean, that is a global league, tons of exposure. It's really where the company was like Kobe Bryant NBA player, right? So there's a lot of authenticity there. And that was really about, can we change the game, but also really create exposure in the game and increase performance and longevity for PPA, right? We know that it's not just about those athletes. It's really the sport is, it's a craze now among, you know, people like you and I, people that aren't pro athletes. And it's got so big. So how do we reach those communities of people whose bodies are breaking down, who are in their fifties and sixties, right? And love the sport, but do it in a hyper ice way and pickleball is a great way to do that for us. It's connected to sport. It feels really authentic, but it also has an audience that is very wide. It's a little bit outside our normal wheelhouse. That's good for us. That's how you grow. Totally. So what is the partnership entail? Yes, it's a combination of education. So we're doing a lot of education around how to prevent injury and enhance longevity. We actually partnered with Select Medical, which is one of the biggest physical therapy companies in the US. So they have, you know, 1500 locations and hyper ice, Select and PPA all partnered together, us being the tools and technology and innovation, Select being, you know, the physical services that can also use the PTs and the Kairos that can use our technology to deliver better performance and reduce injury. And then the PPA, which is the world's most prominent, you know, pickleball league. And so far, so good. You've seen some traction. Yeah, I've been with a lot of learning, a lot of learning because it's a different demo. It's a whole new game. A whole new game. People are moving different. They are different injuries, different age group. And that think about the age group, though, like when you, when people think about hyper ice, they think, okay, you sell the products to LeBron James. You sell the, we do, they buy stuff, right? Steph spot stuff off our site. So it's Tom Brady. It's pretty cool when those come through, right? But the core consumer is us. Yeah. You and I in this room are like right in the wheelhouse of our core consumer. Yeah. So you could argue that the PPA is a very important partnership for us. Because if you're 18, you're probably using our products for performance. If you're 55, you're using our products for longevity, prevent injury, performance, general health, right? You might have some chronic back pain, your knees might be in bad shape, right? So there's a lot of use cases for that demo. Yeah. Do you guys work on any science? Yes. Yes. Tell me. Yeah, we do. So we, we just actually did this really cool video that we use what's called a thermal imaging camera that measures the body's change in circulation from using percussion. So you use our massage device and it shows how your circulation changes. So this, this part of your body just lights up red. So it improves its massive body. Yeah. Okay. So that's cool. We've done a bunch of studies around range of motion, circulation benefits. We have a couple really innovative scientific advisors. Lenny Pericino is one of them. He's actually head of performance or leading performance for LA Clippers. He's on our advisory board. So we're constantly saying, Hey, look, let's, let's test this. Let's see if we can do a study around this to see what kind of impact we can have. And in a lot of cases it comes back, you know, very substantial. I have to ask this question because it, we had a momentous on the founder momentous. And so he came on basically, he was in the NFL and he realized how many supplements they were taking. And he wanted to bring it to the masses because he felt like, wow, like we're so far ahead in terms of whether it's cognitive function or just recovery. Do you ever think about making an acquisition in that space? We've looked at it. Yeah. We've looked hard and actually know those, the momentous kind of investors in that group. Sure. Great company. You know, we've thought about that like nutrition as an extension. Right. For sure. And one of the challenges or balances and it comes back to your question about being a CEO too is there's so many things that you can do. So many things. You know, and you have a brand and you have to make sure that you understand your bandwidth, your resources and really know what you do really well. And sometimes something may be a shining object and maybe it would work, but you're better spending your resources on something that is in your wheelhouse at this moment. So it's all timing sequencing. We made four acquisitions. Three of them worked really well. Right. One of them didn't work that well, but the ones that did, it wasn't just taking the product and doubling or tripling it. It was the people that we acquired and their contributions to the company, HyperSX. We bought that company, the world's most advanced heating, it was heating and cooling all electronically contrast therapy. I don't know if you've tried the device, but it's groundbreaking contrast. You put it on your knee, goes, go on your app temperature setting, you can go to 33 degrees all the way to 120, oscillates between heating and cooling, no water, no liquid, no ice, revolutionary. And that product is doing really well for us, but some of the future innovations that are coming in 24, 25 and 26 from that team of product developers, the impact there is going to far surmount the technology that we currently have. Right. It's a good business tip too. I always think of Rolex. They don't adapt any technology unless it's been around for 10 years. That's kind of like, and so they wouldn't even make a decision. And so when it came to these examples, when Web 3 NFT market came out, obviously there's a play for a Rolex to insert something and then that way they can track these items on a secondary market, but their world view is if it's here in 10 years, we'll consider it essentially. And I just love that approach, where it just reminds you, you always go back to what you're good at and because they've been around for 100 years or so, they can stay in the test of time in some pun. Any Super Bowl commercial planned? Not this year. No. Okay. Maybe next year. And maybe we did. We did a lot of commercials in 2021. And we did a few in 2022 specifically around the NBA. I don't know if we'd do a Super Bowl commercial. We had some creative ideas for them. We definitely, there was no shortage of ideas if we were going to run one, but probably not our medium this year. So this year, you can tell people, they can look out for new products. New products this year. New things coming. We have some new things coming this year, some pretty big announcements in the middle of the year. Some new territories. I think 2025 is going to be loaded with innovation. Yeah. And you have the Olympics right soon. Yep. See the Olympics coming up soon. Anything for the World Cup? We do have some products that are being tested in the World Cup. Okay. Yep. Some new stuff. Well, look, thanks for coming on the podcast. This was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, share with your friends, your family, or anyone you might think might benefit from the conversation we've had today. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. We'd greatly appreciate it. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more people who can benefit from our discussions. The best way to stay connected with us and get the latest updates on future episodes is through our social media channels. You can find us at Startup Storefront. We'll be back next Tuesday with another great episode. See you then.