 Welcome everyone. We're going to kick start this session. It's an honor to have Anisha with us and he'll talk about Kiran Thomas in a minute but we will get started. This is going to be more of a fireside chat. It's going to be a free flowing open honest conversation. It's going to be impromptu so we don't know where we will go but it's a bit of an exploration. I've been really fortunate over the last two years. I've been working very closely with Anisha Kiran and I would say rarely in my career I have met executives who not only deal with the strategy of a $70 billion company, you know a five-year-old company which is now worth $70 billion and go all the way. I've seen I've seen Anisha Kiran go all the way to at the core level and even do live debugging where required. You know in a nutshell I think for me working with them what I've come to realize is Anisha Kiran are core engineers at heart and they are the key people driving India's digital roadmap so it's such an honor to have you here with us Anisha and I think what I want to do is I don't want to turn this into a session where we spend the next maybe two days just talking about geo's accomplishment because honestly you know 45 minutes you know a session won't do justice but geo has touched all of us in many different ways and we've actually experienced the geo way in some sense so we'll focus here a little bit on your leadership style, the unique geo's culture and the organization and more importantly getting to know you a little bit better in a bit of an informal setting with your permission if that's okay I think we will take that as an approach for today. First of all thank you very much Naresh and I'm sure the team who has worked with you to make this happen it's an fabulous accomplishment of the things to be done virtually and still you know able to make it so successful so I would say congratulations to you and the team also I want to say that you know today I am going to talk on behalf I was not aware that it is a free talk in any case I have not made any PPTs or presentation so I'm all open and I'm ready to take some of these questions I don't know how surprising they are but I'm ready to do it I also want to admit that today I'm going to talk on behalf of Anish that is myself and Kiran who is my partner in crime or whatever you call it as we have been both me and Kiran have been working now for almost 25 years together and each one of us have been I mean I'm fortunate to have a partner like Kiran to associate with him for I mean he has deep expertise in so many areas that I always get inspired whenever I interact with him and probably on a daily basis I learn a lot from him unfortunately he has some personal work and he's not able to join but I have taken his permission and I think on his behalf I am going to answer some of the questions I don't know how good I'll be but I'll try it I'm sure you will exceed our expectations so with that let's kind of dive in straight one thing that has amazed me and I want to start with that is the analogies that you guys give in a lot of your review meetings and so forth and people say a picture is worth thousand words I would say an analogy or a dialogue that you guys make is probably worth similarly a thousand words and sometimes when you use these dialogues so impromptu you know just that one phrase basically hits the nail on the head and so I want to maybe pick a couple of those dialogues and kind of get the get a little bit of the context and the story behind some of those dialogues so Anisha one of my favorite dialogues of you has been operation successful patient dead can you tell us what this means and what's the story behind this? Oh so you picked up a very important but a very critical phrase of I do do it in my day-to-day things when I am interacting with my teams and some of our leaders I think it is very contextual and thanks for asking this I don't know how this is related to others but I think to our teams it relates very well in terms of when you say I mean this is a phrase which I have I mean practically experienced in what we do and that's why I mentioned this quite a lot to the team and I think it relates very well that operations is successful and patient is dead I think it is trying to tell that you know you have to be focusing on outcome all the time it is not important that you do a visiting exercise or a strategy exercise at the start of whatever you do and then you forget and then you start go so engrossed in building that that you are not looking at the outcome or the direction to reach that outcome it is it is the way to look outside in every time all the time whatever you are doing whatever you are building and sometimes this phrase is very relevant because you might at the end of everything you might say oh I have got the great platform it is now complete it is all true but you might not see even a single customer in on top of it or you might realize that you know you are pretty late in the game because somebody else has already done the work so I think it talks about agility it talks about looking at the outcome all the time it also it also correlates to saying that how should you execute your project you cannot be engraved in in in doing things whatever you are building whether it is identifying a technology or you are trying to build a platform or for that matter you are just integrating some services that you are forgetting the outcome so to me I think you have to be very clear that while you are doing your operations and in this analogy it is that when you are looking at when you are doing your operations you should ensure that the patient is alive you should always see that the patient is is is able to do everything what he's supposed to do while you are doing operations and to that point you should ensure that when you say that your operations is successful the patient has to be smiling happy and and should be really really proud of that you know now he's able to do what he's doing and I think that is the analogy probably I provide in in my context otherwise sometimes I have seen that some of my tech leaders some of my process leaders they got so engraved they get so get into the bookish part of execution that they sometimes forget the outcome they sometimes don't correlate to what they are trying to do and it's quite likely that you might miss the target you you will you will forget what you are actually trying to build and and being agile is one of the important element of this that while you are doing agile you should always look at your outcome are you meeting your outcome are you constantly moving in that direction so I think that is the reason I use this phrase I didn't knew that somebody is catching this phrase this manner but thanks for asking and I just clarified but it's always amazing when I've seen when you use this it really has an impact on people so I really like that there's a similar another phrase let's let's go to that Anish if you don't mind that is I've seen you know you and a lot of senior leaders executive leaders said Geo use this take me seriously but not literally what what does this phrase mean like yeah so I think I mean this is a phrase which my colleague Kiran uses quite often that take me seriously and not literally and I think again it has a very deep meaning sometimes you know people try to go to the tea of what they are trying to do take me seriously and not literally is that we don't have to be so focused in delivering outcome that we forget what we want to do for our customers I mean if we have to do something different from what we had thought initially because we believe that that is true for customers or that is right for customers then we should go ahead and you know we should execute that we should be ready to prepare to be out of what we had decided initially it's quite possible that in the initial stage we might have thought about something but as you move as you go towards the execution of project or at the time of delivery you might realize that you know there are certain things which are not right or you have to do it you cannot say that you know because I had thought about this or I had visioned this I have to do it you have to you should not take anybody so seriously so literally that if we ask you to walk on the tight rope you will actually start walking all it means is that you need to be very clear of what you want to do and I think that is the essence of saying take me seriously so you should customer obsession or for that matter whatever you are building has to be there element of what you are doing but that doesn't mean that you have to stick to the tea and if it means that you know you are not doing something right for the customer and you still continue to do because you had thought initially I think you should be ready to make those changes you should be ready to accept those changes you should be ready to accept if somebody is even criticizing that is very important and you should do it in that spirit don't and that is why Kiran because at times he gives so many analogy and he expressed some things that people sometimes and English as you know is a very funny language so you should not take those meaning in that literal sense you should understand the meaning the expression or the emotions behind that and not the literal word or the literal meaning of that I think that is the essence of what we are trying to say. Okay brilliant, brilliant and interestingly in this you mentioned about customer obsession and that's that's one area I wanted to that's upon I'll be honest before starting to work with Gio one of the things I always thought I mean or felt that Gio actually doesn't really care about end customer experience you know this is a perception I had I would say and of course now that I've been working very closely with you guys for two years I realized I was quite wrong and it's actually quite the opposite but I remember the other day you know Kiran was a bit upset with a decision one of the team had made and he was trying to you know express saying that doesn't your blood boil when you see this type of a customer experience or for that matter some of the policies that I think I have seen on the telecom side where it's very much in favor of the customers and so you know when I think about customer obsession I had a I had a definition in my head what customer obsession means and a lot of that you know I think understanding what you guys are doing has helped me evolve it helped it refine it and so my question to you was you know generally I see that founders entrepreneurs senior leaders in company you know deeply care about their users their customers their partners but you know I've often seen that they struggle to pass the same passion or obsession customer obsession to the rest of their team so can you can you help us understand how you tackle this you know with your teams certainly first of all I would like to admit that you are an excellent observer and an analyzer I didn't realize that you are catching some of these very fundamental elements of what we do in our day to day conversation but I'm glad that you are bringing some of these points because first of all I think we will take it very very truly to say that you know we want to we want to make an effort to really make people feel that you know not only internally but we are truly customer obsession and I think customer obsession is is not an external trait it is part of our DNA and it comes from right from our chairman I mean right from our chairman to the to the last person in the organization I think we strive on customer obsession and several examples I don't want to take too much of time but I will definitely illustrate by two three specific points to say that how we are customer obsessed and I think I think customer obsession doesn't come by expressing it in the form of words or thing it has to be expressed in the form of an action and I think that was the reason again I'm just correlating your point and I know that instance when a friend was articulating that to some of our colleagues to say that doesn't your blood boil I think it is all about saying that you know how can you tolerate something for our customers and if your blood is not boiling for your customers then there is something wrong probably you are not in the right place or you are not in the right organization I think that is what the connotation is and I definitely distinctively remember that episode but I think in general I think customer obsession like I said is a is a part of our DNA it is not an external trait or it is not an external thought which we are trying to invite it it starts like I said it stems from from the apex from the top and it goes all the way to our roots it has to be there because we believe that any organization which has to be a consumer friendly organization if it is not customer obsessed then then I don't think so it can be successful or are the fact that we are successful in the shortest possible time and we are able to provide the best in class service is one reason if I have to attribute is our customer obsessiveness and it cannot be better than if this customer obsessiveness cannot be better driven unless it is given from the top and our chairman I would say himself is so customer obsessed that just to illustrate when we started our service in 2016 2016 when we launched the services in fact we did almost one and a half year of trial trial which was not seen by any end customer but we did trial of our 4G services everything was launched all our towers were radiating we had mobile phones all our services were on but we didn't we didn't release those services until we were very sure of each and every aspect of it of course it was costing huge effort time resource money but we said that we are not going to do it until we are confident of all our systems and you will be surprised that we were not left even single service to be tested we didn't leave anything to chance including our reporting to our regulatory services which generally is an offline work but we said no we want to ensure that 100% of everything is fully tested and it is not about testing applications or QA testing or production testing it is actually live testing with customers but these were all friendly customers these were all our family members our own internal teams all our hundreds and thousands of it in fact within the Lance corporate park we were doing continuous testing every day we used to provision thousands of customers and then we used to delete those customers again we used to prove so it was like testing 100% of each and every element of our system I mean there cannot be so much of customer obsession is the height is that after we launched which was in 2017 when empty launched the actual thing after the AGM we gave this service almost for 180 days plus free to all our customers the service was open live given to our customers 4G service all applications devices everything I mean the sim was given free just walk in give you our EKIC and then you know walk out with the working sim with all the applications loaded using that I mean there cannot be a better example of customer obsession is the reason why we wanted to do is we wanted to be so perfect so perfect that nothing should go wrong and I think the result of that was and within the day we said that we will convert from free to paid almost 80% of the customers who are using free service got converted in less than 7 days into paid and the remaining 20% got converted into almost 4 weeks so imagine the kind of power which we created of saying that you know we were I have never seen any organization so customer obsessive to say that until service is perfect until each and every element element which are not directly associated with customer has to be so perfect that we will not launch the service I mean there cannot be better example than saying that and this comes like I said from the top to the bottom each and every team and I think now that inculcates as a part of our DNA it comes so natural that we don't have to think and probably there are several examples but I don't want to take too much of time so that's a fantastic example Anisha of you know how you guys go over and beyond to ensure first dogfooding it yourself and then kind of giving it to the customers and making sure that until it's perfected you don't start billing them and then that obviously shows in the results that you talked about in terms of the conversions and you know the growing business that you have so that's fantastic there's something about this that intrigues me is what you're saying is before you actually launched almost a year ago you had things ready which means you are looking at things far ahead and you're trying to prepare for the future so this takes me a little bit to you know I'm sure you've read this book called Anti-Fragile from Nasik Valib and one of his core principles he talks about is this concept of optionality which is basically you want to keep your options open and you want to decide at the last responsible moment and for the agile practitioners here in the audience I think we all believe that we practice this principle of optionality we run a nutrition or we run an experiment and we differ making decisions or commitments till we actually see some progress or if it is you know on the architecture side we believe in evolutionary architecture we don't start with an upfront design of a big bang solution right until we fully understood the problem the challenge I see there is we end up doing the sequentially one after another we finish an experiment then we start another experiment however with with you know there is a concept called set-based design which sometimes is also referred to as set-based concurrent engineering where you run these experiments in parallel at a rapid scale so that you can amplify your learning and decision-making and probably that is something that you know is is one of the things I see as an integral part of how Jio has been operating you know even though we know that from lean product development since 1987 if I'm not wrong this is this is one of the core principles but very few companies actually practice concurrent engineering and at Jio I've seen several examples where this you know this is the part of your core initiative and that probably explains to me something that you just briefly talked about but that's a very intriguing topic so I would like to go a little bit into it with your permission if you can give a couple of examples of how this actually came to be part of the culture and what kind of benefits have you seen with concurrent engineering? I wish Kiran was there because I mean both me and Kiran have been talking about this multiple times and one of the philosophies which I think even our chairman talks about and Kiran have been pioneering this is you know we should always walk on multi leg I mean we should be like an ant with multiple legs to walk so that even if you know like you said we want to do everything concurrently we want to do everything in parallel several examples but again you know let me illustrate because I think giving example can make people understand what I mean one of the important part of doing this concurrent and yes I have read the book and probably what it talks about but I think putting in practice is a slightly different thing people have to really put that in practice I mean theoretically yes it makes sense but how do you put in practice is very important and I'll give one example that you know we have one of a very successful app called Geopause which is used for onboarding millions of customers on a monthly basis and probably at some point in time we used to onboard almost a million customer a day that was the peak time and even now we onboard almost 10 million customers a month so that's the kind of thing the pause is and probably we have thousands of retailers who are using this pause I think what we decided you know there were some of the features which we wanted to build and logically one would have thought that you know it's an extension of the same pause so why don't we build those features in the pause but again this is the way Kiran and I think and it was Kiran who then said that you know why don't we make a parallel application in a in normal sense one would have thought oh why should we make a separate application in fact it was a separate team and a similar application and we named it as Geopause Lite it does almost similar things but it was kept it was thought for making it as an extension of pause but it does everything what a pause does done by a separate team build on a completely cloud native framework today both Geopause and Geopause Lite are running together we see now a lot of elements which we have built in pause Lite we are also now trying to put it in pause I mean logically I would have said that you know let us go and make one more feature and add it into it because it's the same retailer or similar set of people but we said no why don't we make in parallel and this was not an afterthought this was very clearly when the pause was getting built and a lot of features were being added we said that let's build in parallel because we don't have time and the good part was it really had during pandemic in pandemic the retailers were physically not available the pause Lite the pause application was practically impossible for people to use it because the stores were down what we did was we converted this Lite version on the App Store and we asked the same retailers to download this pause Lite application and remotely sitting at their home they were able to recharge for their customers now it it became so popular that now we have started saying that okay let these two app run continuously and in a way we run challenging things in both the apps we start building some of the capability in both the apps and for us it is it is not one versus other but it is actually helping us to build more and more customer base helping us to do more recharge helping us to do more acquisition and depending on who the retailer is or what kind of retailer is now we have started positioning pause Lite versus pause again this was concurrent engineering two different teams building on the same back end with a different stack and the kind of capabilities which was almost overlapped now no insane no sand guy would would always think of building a separate team doing this but we gave this challenge to one of the team who was already building who had already got most of the ingredients or components available with them saying that why don't you guys try out and make make a pause which is better than it and it can be available to anybody and everybody and tomorrow any person who wants to become a retailer can become a retailer so I think this ideas and this is one example but several examples where we have done even in network even in areas where we have to build things we always want to build redundancy we always want to build concurrency we always want to say that let's try both options three options four options and the option which is final at the end when we have to really take decision we will say okay what makes sense let's go ahead and implement it's not that one versus other but then we always take a very very practical fragmented call to say that you know we want this service as opposed to any other service so I think that has been that has been probably the kind of thinking all along in everything which we do this is one example only on the system side and application side but it is true in in everything which we build whether it is hardware whether it is software whether it is services we will always try to do it in multiple sense so that you know at the end of it we don't have to worry if one thing fails because we already have always have an alternative to look upon for and you never know what will happen especially when you want to do things at scale you know things can go wrong at any point in time and that's why we don't want to take chance again this is if you think about it it is part of an element which is driving us from an customer obsessive perspective in whichever way we want to do that so I think that is one of the reason why we do this and we practice it and it takes a lot of effort to run this but then now we have realized that you know people talk about hackathon so this happens all along it is not an uh one one time episode but all along yeah absolutely like this this is like a hackathon culture that's just constantly running in the company and this creates so much of this muscle power if you will in terms of ability to move very quickly and so I think that's a pretty interesting point I think you've been talking a lot about unfortunately he's not here but I want to highlight one other thing that that really struck me and I'm still amazed is about your leadership style you know in the sense that you know both of you you and Kiran come with a massive experience backing you but majority of the time I find both of you together guiding the teams together making decisions in fact before pandemic both of you used to sit next to each other and often like Kiran would start a statement and Anish you would complete it or there are times when Kiran would ask a question and you will build on top of it like the kind of synergy that I've seen between the two of you I mean personally I've not seen in any leader if I were to relate this back to the folks in the audience if you're familiar with the concept of fair programming in extreme programming you know where two developers are working together on the same computer trying to solve the same problem or for that matter pair coaching where two coaches you know work together to coach a team you know if you see Anish and Kiran in action they are very much like that you know they're kind of you know the like a you know two in a box is what I call it two in a box leader leadership style which is quite unique at this scale of the organization at the level where you guys are generally you only get one and you have to you know work with that but in this case we get two and both of you have such rich experience that you can guide the team you know so how did how did you discover this and you know how did you start with this like I'm just curious I am so amazed that you do very very deep observation and thanks for bringing this point in retail there is a term called bogoff it is called BOGF buy one get one free so yeah jokingly but I think again if you see the Bollywood industry Bollywood industry especially there in music you will always find that there are always a duo I think for us that is very important both me and Kiran like I said you know we have been working 25 years and I think we have seen a benefit of working together and like I said you know it is always and the good part is we always compliment and supplement you give example of peer programming the benefit of peer programming I think are known by people that you the chances of making mistakes are very minimal you also have an trust and verify kind of methodology so I think between the two of us we are very clear that how this can work and it also helps us to really scale especially when things are at scale when you have to build a massive applications in the shortest possible time trying to drive it I don't think so an individual can do that justice no individual whether it is me individually or for that matter Kiran individually we cannot do it but I think collectively the two of us between two of us we share responsibility I think that the good part is that we know our limitations very clearly Kiran is a person who goes in very depth I like it and I think that together of us we cover the entire square so I think that to me is complementary it is really helping us in building things which are at Ajay things which I miss out I always know that you know there is someone like Kiran who is going to talk about it and ask the question so that's why sometimes you know I start with some point and then he picks up saying that okay this point is what Anise is making but this was something which we need to add to it or vice versa so I think I always see a benefit of working in together because it helps to scale it helps to really pace out things in fact it also helps to sometimes work breakdown so that you know we can share work among each other so that the load sharing happens more effectively I mean mechanically as you know anything on single pillar versus dual pillar the load can be shared and you can take more load so I think that applies to both of us and that's how we try to work with each other that's how we try to compliment each other supplement each other at times we also challenge each other I mean there are things where we challenge because and I think that challenging is very important because once you challenge I think your mind starts thinking something which you might have not thought so that really helps and I think this has been for the last 25 years and now it comes very natural we don't even think about amazing so this is this is sparing in practice at a leadership level and this is this is the other element of again Talib's book about building redundancy in some sense right like where you have you know like if there was one person and if that event had to not have that person then the event would have been a little problematic but at least between the two of us I spoke to him and he said on my behalf and I said great excellent example of something in live in action how the redundancy helps so brilliant brilliant I am little conscious about the time that we have left you know and I'm going to take a little bit of a decision to maybe shoot a little overtime by two three minutes you know just because we lost in between so I just have last two questions that I would probably like to get through in just in this flow as we are going through so one thing that you know is common now because of the pandemic is working remotely and working remotely for a software company is understandable I mean we are used to that but GEO is a different ballgame I mean you have such a massive footprint in terms of infrastructure hardware you're manufacturing your own phones you know and of course the entire network stack all the way coming to the software side of things so it's a massive footprint spread across I don't know how many locations in India and then when the decision was made to work remotely how how did you manage it? Very good question I would say that very relevant very good and I think I think this is one of the greatest example of doing things at scale and at pace because sometimes when you do at scale you miss out the pace and when you do at pace you miss out the scale so I think doing things both at scale and pace is probably this one example as you rightly said you know we have more than 50,000 locations from where we operate we have people looking at different different areas it could be a remote a store it could be our data center it could be our warehouse it could be even our remote office it could be a geo center we have close to around 10,000 geo centers 15,000 geo points close to around 10,000 retail stores massive thing and each locations have to be connected because without which they can't operate everything is digital whether it is our applications collaboration access in fact every office every place is well connected and obviously we have to because otherwise we can't operate when we had to move remote and this was probably somewhere in 2019 when it was decided in March that you know we can't continue to work from office it was only 15 days that we had to migrate everybody from office to whichever place they were working from providing connectivity and we have close to around 12,024 by seven field force sorry force which is sitting in our Reliance Corporate Park who had to operate all of a sudden from their homes no access to any of our office infrastructure in 15 days I think we were able to scale up everything whether it was VPN whether it was remote access applications which were not remote ready and with with the help of our infosec team our network team we were able to turn around overnight of course we had got a lot of support from our partners like Cisco and Citrix and everybody to really make it happen overnight I mean this was this was something which people were thinking what to do and by that time we had already thought about saying that this is have to have to be done let me give you one very very very specific example which is directly impacting to our customers because of pandemic all our eight call centers or contact centers which were there distributed in different states had to be shut off now one of the important challenge and I think the challenge was with many other service providers in fact many other service providers had then contacted us because we were able to do it in less than two weeks and and this is this is a real story I would like to talk about that in less than two weeks hundred percent of our call center or contact center staff started operating from their home using a smartphone and a thin client thin client is it doesn't have any compute but a very one screen and one small box connected to a 4g dongle accessing hundred percent of all our contact center applications including their attendance presence a nice logger recording everything you were able to turn around and this was probably I would say the best agile example of converting probably an app into whatever from a native form or a on-premise form to a remote form in 15 days flat and hundred percent of our staff call centers were fully functional fully functional from their remote homes including the the supervisors were able to monitor these people from their home I don't think so many people were able to correlate or understand but most of the service industry will realize that this is a mammoth task to migrate hundred percent of close to around 20,000 employees in a span of 15 days giving them smartphone giving them thin clients connecting on 4g dongle more importantly getting all the applications making it remote access asking our info sync guide to validate hundred percent making our 24 by 7 op steam tech ops team to do it one of the classic thing which our teams did and I think thanks to my team BP sing and and his his platform team who have built what we call AI ops AI ops is all about operations and now he's of course getting into zero touch ops but AI ops is with minimal set of people and probably we had less than 10 people for whom we had got a permission to be stationed in office hundred percent of the staff was operating remotely from their home managing 24 by 7 all our cloud native applications our on-premise applications including our network infrastructure and not accessing all the applications remotely I think it was probably something which was act orchestrated the best way all teams came collectively together and a couple of my program managers and couple of my team leads where program managing this on a day-to-day basis coming coming to collectively and it was a it was a I would say the brilliant program management work which was done in span of 15 days where nobody felt any downtime any service downtime or any service degradation to the end customer or to our internal users or for that matter to any of the stakeholders so I would say that remote has actually helped to build some of our IP in fact now we are able to offer this as a service to many of our enterprise customers that you know how can they run in fact now we have given away our actual property the call center contact center property which we have hired we have already given away because we believe that even after pandemic is out or we are resuming our office we don't want to go back to contact center it has worked so very well for our agents supervisors for the team and they are so very productive because they don't have to travel they are able to access all the information they are able to fulfill all the work this is something which we have built in 15 days I'm very proud to say that you know this is now a service which we are offering to lot of our customers so I would say remote in many sense has really helped us to innovate and to really bring some of the best element of working together in more collaboratively than what would have I mean one of the classic example is launch of our geophone next and many similar launches of our applications and services have happened in pandemic probably the amount of launches which we have done in pandemic the number of features we have released the entire geomart and geomit was launched in pandemic geomart was not existing before june of 2019 2020 it started in july of 2020 and today we have close to around half a million orders coming daily on geomart it was launched in in pandemic so imagine the kind of thing we were able to do by sitting remotely I believe that if we work hybrid probably the opportunities are far more than what one would have imagined great great I remember the chairman the other day mentioning that if now for a year we've not only survived but thrived in this environment is there a reason to go back and that's that's that's pretty phenomenal I know Anish you you are a very very busy man so I've taken a lot of time but if you don't mind one last question I want to squeeze in every person I meet and they come to know I am associated with Geo the first question they ask me inevitably is you know as as everyone knows basically during the pandemic in the shortest duration ever Geo was able to convince top investors tech giants like Facebook or Meta now Google you know Intel a whole bunch of them to invest you know 21 billion dollars into geoplatform limited and the promise to them was about a unifying geoplatform's vision so the question that everyone keeps asking me is you know how did they convince to the investors to pour in this kind of a money so if you can just touch upon that and we'll wrap up them okay I think it's a pretty intense question but let me try to give some glimpse of what it is I mean of course there's a lot of secret source but it's an open secret and I think I don't mind giving glimpse of what how and what are the elements of why this has happened so first of all I think it is very important that you you should first get convinced yourself if you are not convinced I don't think so anybody else you can convince I mean this is a belief this is a fundamental belief in us we do this all the time we want to eat our dog food first if we are not satisfied we don't want to even offer to anybody there are several examples internally where we have done so many work which we don't even offer because we ourselves are not satisfied and until we are not satisfied we don't want to take it anywhere I think this truthfulness the sincerity for us is what we transparently share it with others that if we don't believe in ourselves I don't think so we can make anybody else to believe in us this is one very fundamental principle on which I think everybody else has got convinced because we were convinced we from I think straight probably in 2010 when Kiran was the first employee of Geo not many people might know but he was the first employee who migrated to Geo and I moved a year after him almost year and a half after him joined him but since then we were very clear that we don't want to be in telecom we want to be a platform company we want to really do that and almost since 10 to I think in 19 we formed the Geo platform for nine years we were only talking about it we were actually building about it silently saying that you know our platforms have to make sense before we go and expose it to anybody nine years is a hell lot of a gestation period for somebody internally to get convinced and until we were convinced I don't think so we exposed ourselves to so to me I think that truthfulness that sincerity to yourself if you do it I think everybody else will realize it because we have to first be truthful and sincere to ourselves and if we are in in in the right sense then I'm sure we open it up and then people can judge us to say that whatever they are saying they're actually delivering it and I think this has been track record for Alliance in last 40 years that we have been existing whatever we have said whatever we have committed and I think you can look at all the AGM's speeches of MBA and whatever he has committed we have delivered we have delivered not only on what he has said but we are most of the time delivered on time now that to me is is far more sincere convincing and truthful effort of delivering to ourselves before we do it for others so I would leave with this last point saying that if anybody wants to get there I think first you have to convince yourself before you convince anybody else. Okay great that's that's a powerful message there Anish I think you know being convinced yourself and being truthful about it is the first step and then obviously others will see it and realize it and that's kind of and again being a track record for you guys so again I want to congratulate you and the entire team for what you've been able to accomplish putting us on the global roadmap and also changing the landscape of the entire India digital story in such a short span so again amazing job and thank you so much for joining us thank you very much this for me was something first time I've done individually so I definitely miss Kiran and I just want to say that on behalf of myself and Kiran I thank to you Narees and it has been great two years and I believe that you know that two years looks to me like 20 years of our association and I wish that and I want to continue this as long as we work together so this is something I want to congratulate you and your team for a wonderful session like this thank you very much. So again I didn't get into introductions about Anish or any of that stuff you know because I'm hoping you've already read his profile he's you know someone who really calls the shots at GEO he's kind of the go-to man and so I thought it would be great to kind of based on my experience pick specific aspects and kind of go a little bit into it and keep it a very open and honest discussion cool yeah okay perfect thank you I see all the comments hopefully Anish can join back quickly and then we have a few more interesting surprises for him and we'll go through that.