 So ladies and gentlemen, we are beginning with our first panel discussion now, which will be talking about business growth with digital media, strategies for growing businesses, returns through digital and lessons from the success stories of the digital-only businesses. And for initiating this panel, may I please invite Mr. Prasad Pimpli, Executive Vice President and Head for Digital Business Unit, Kotak Live, to join us on the screens. And also, Mr. Tandeep Valunj for CMO Nippon Life India EMC, Mrs. Saumesh Surana, Head Digital Business Group, HDFC Ergo, Mr. Vishal Parekh, Director Monetization Yahoo and Session Chair, Mr. Rupam Garg, CEO Densu X India, to join us on the screens. And I would request Mr. Rupam Garg, who is also our Session Chair, to initiate the talk and let's dive into this interesting session. Thank you. So, welcome everybody, Sandeep Prasad, Vishal, Prumesh. Hi. Hi. So, we are the first panel and I'm going to start with some provocative question. Maybe, Sandeep, if you could answer that question first itself. It's saying, can digital-only business be successful for growth in today's time? You want me to begin? Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. And thank you for having us here. I think the question has already been answered by the great change agent there is, which is time. And time has hastened the process, which was on for a fairly long time. But all of us on the digital side of things always were looking at a path to acceptance or a road to acceptance and something. And COVID pandemic has essentially shortened that road. So, the question is not really whether it is possible to have a digital-only strategy. But the question is, how can you very quickly get a digital business strategy if you don't have one? And more importantly, for the traditional legacy businesses, how could we complete effectively with the digital-only businesses? Especially in BFSI and most of us of Britain, those are really the questions. So, what has really happened is the whole paradigm shift that the pandemic did, the acceptance has been hastened of the digital-only model. And there are multiple factors that have led to it. The first and foremost being the benefit, people started getting deals, people started getting home delivery of every conceivable thing. It was just so convenient. And it was always beneficial because digital typically is associated with deals and offers and cashbacks and stuff. So, people shifted fairly quickly. So, that was the first one, which is benefit. The second one is the optimization. We could optimize on travel. Like people like you and me, Rupam and my co-panelists, these days we're doing five or six or seven meetings in a day, which was not possible in the physical era. So, so much of optimization have happened. We also have realized that a lot of small talk has gone away and a lot of the time gets very gainfully employed to actually physically work. So, similarly, consumers have also optimized their life. So, they know what to order, how much to order, when to order, they know when the delivery is going to come. Most of the deliveries can be tracked on the phone and so on and so forth. So, that's another factor that has led to a very widespread acceptance of the digital-only model. In fact, many people prefer that. The third factor, as I said, is convenience. So, the travel time to malls, the whole pollution and the parking charges and so on and so forth. More importantly, you could try out things a lot better. Just over the weekend, my daughter was selecting some spectacular frames on Lane's cart. And it was such an inconvenient thing. I mean, she would try out like a 500 different pairs in like, what are half an hour. And it was so, I mean, she could check it on her face and the frame would turn and so on and so forth. So, all of those things are so convenient. Obviously, now people will think twice or twice before going to a physical store, go all the way and then the model that you want is not there and so on and so forth. So, that's the last part is the whole optimization of life that we have achieved. So, all of them become far more efficient and therefore the digitization is here to stay and therefore digital-only business models are also here to stay. So, I think said that there are a couple of big challenges that digital-only businesses will have to encounter. The first one is because we are a social animal and digital-only models typically tend to have very little or no touch and feel that could have a very serious impact on loyalty because essentially digital typically means deals and the transaction is very functional. And some of those psychological aspects will have to be handled, but you know, digital is here to stay and that's really the future. Thank you. Thank you, Sandeep. I think it's a great insight and actually somewhere linking to what Amanda was talking about, of saying that how can we do operate and things going to move ahead. So, Mish, any thoughts from your side on this? Yes. Thanks, Rupam. First of all, thank you for inviting for such a good conference where I can put my thoughts together. I think a very relevant question, not very simple to answer, but a very relevant question in today's time is digital-only or will digital-only strategies or businesses is good enough or not. While the answer is a tricky one, but I will try and answer that. My view is that, like Sandeep was also saying, yes, digital-only business will obviously grow and it will grow much faster than any other traditional organization. But at the same point in time, we need to understand that we have, it depends on the kind of business that we are talking about. It depends on the kind of products that we are talking about. And then we need to see whether it is only digital or it is a mix of digital or not. Having said that, everyone will have to kind of solve the problems which exist. The pain points the customer needs to be resolved digitally. I mean, for instance, if we talk about a business which we are in or the financial sector, obviously both traditional and digital businesses will survive. But we'll have to find solutions which are more digital-based, which are based on the digital platform. At the same point in time, there are certain businesses, if I talk about Amazons of the World, Amazon Prime, OTT, they can only be a digital-only business and there they obviously have much more to do. I think the larger point that we need to understand is that we need to know the customer pain points. We need to understand that customers are changing with time and we need to match up with their expectations. And hence, yes, digital is there to survive, but both will have to work hand in hand. Thank you so much. This is a large question and I think both of you can try to capture it quite well. You just move on to the next question with the length of the questions which are there and the depth of the topic that you have to cover. So my next question is to Prasad. Prasad, if you could talk to us about the success stories of only digital business and lessons which you think come from these success stories. So, see, there are so many businesses which have gone successful with their digital-only strategy. That's what we are seeing across the industries. But I take one example here of our discount brokers. So we all know that currently the discount brokers are like zero, the upstox or grow. They are significantly growing their customer base. In fact, whatever data I have read in the market, around 75% of the new demand accounts are getting opened every year are through discount brokers. The discount broker now that business was earlier available traditionally, lot many companies were doing it, but the entry of discount brokers has completely changed the paradigm. It is a true success story. They have not only acquired good number of customers like I mentioned, 70% of the industry sourcing is happening through discount brokers. At the same time, they are profitable. Like I was reading again in one of the reports that zero the has done something like 1000 crores of profit last year, last financial year. So if they can generate that kind of profit with a significant increase in customer acquisition, I think there's a merit in looking at these success stories in detail. Now, according to me, what has contributed to their success? I think they have solved one problem at a time for all these customers. For example, when earlier, a lot of people were not opening the demand accounts, there was a fear that will I be able to do everything on my own? Because in online business, everything is do it yourself. The customers has to get that kind of confidence that this platform, this tool, the way they have simplified the things, the way they have eased out on the processors, the way they have put in the technology in place, that confidence has to go into the consumer's mind that yes, I can do it on my own. I think this is the number one thing what they have solved for. Number two, I would say what they are looked at is yes, their product was good. They have reduced the brokerage. They have made it zero at some of the cases that is anywhere there. But another important thing they did that they provided a lot of flexibility to customers. Because what was happening earlier that with the SIPs, with the lump sum investments in mutual funds in stocks, what is happening? A lot of customers were having a long-term commitment. If I'm starting the SIP, the traditional brokerages were asking for 12 months SIP, 6 months SIP, 3 months SIP. They simply said, pay when you have money and when you want to pay. So they simply made that proposition flexible. Second thing they did, they made everything affordable. We all know that the mutual fund industry was giving, and Sadiq can correct me if I'm wrong, that was having a 500 rupees SIP starting amount from long time and people were investing into it. But a lot of these discount brokers made it more affordable. I have seen some of the platforms where now they offer a SIP which is 100 rupees a month. They have gone to that level. They have made it really, really affordable to the customer. So they have given a lot of ease to the customers, simplicity to them, a lot of control by having DIY tools, made it affordable, put in a lot of flexibility and they have allowed people to do a lot of experimentation. A lot of experimentation. I have not seen people are doing a lot of intraday trading, they are doing swim trading. I really don't know whether a lot of them have the knowledge to do those things. But because they have made it so simplified that has resulted into the success with so many transactions happening on the discount brokers platform. So this is how the success story I would talk about. And the key you mentioned about the lessons from such a success story. I think the biggest lesson from such a success story is simplified to a level. Because if you want to succeed in a digital business, you want to create a digital only business with the help of technology, with the help of processes, with the help of your product, simplify it to the level which will give confidence to the customers to do everything on their own. Do it yourself. That's how I look at it. Very insightful. If I may ask you the same question, it's about success stories of digital only business and what lessons are there from such stories? Sure, thanks for that question. I think Prasad has actually covered a lot of things, but let's divide this into two parts just to give everyone a clear idea of building a successful online business or a digital business versus building an online successful digital brand. So I think both of that is possible. I think Sandeep and Sandeep really mentioned about it depends upon which category. Anyone who may spoke about that, it depends upon the category. For example, it's e-commerce, as a business can be really built online. And obviously, I also understand that new age beauty companies like Sugar Cosmetics, Man Company, all of these businesses can be really built online or even the brands can be built online here. But there are larger, where the trust is there in terms of banking ecosystem or a certain ecosystem, they may need an omni-channel. I still say that's a part of the digital strategy, but rather than just having or looking at the digital, it should be an overall an omni-channel strategy where everything is linked to digital, like whether it could be connected to it, it could be digital out of home or it could be any part of the game. So I believe that all of this is here to stay and it will go increasing, but it will evolve into an omni-channel, which could be a part of the digital strategy in itself. And we have seen last part of the business is Rupam, in fact, you could be a great advocate of that, that a lot of things from out of home is now moving to programmatic digital out of home. And a lot of television people are talking about efficacy by doing through OTT, which is through connected TV. So I think there are a lot of things which are evolving. So one of the examples which I can because we are in the BFSI panel right now, I can clearly see that. One of the things which I saw, which was really built well, especially with coming Yahoo as one of the platform was research and ranking. So I just recollected this while Prasad was talking about the discount broker, which could be Zerodara. So this company is where a lot of people do not have the understanding of what equity they need to buy or they need to sell and at what time and pre-s to be there, what I'm exited. So this company kind of come up with a knowledge and education bank with a lot of researchers and they try to sell that. And they created an amazing UI or clear cut part in terms of subscription model, monthly subscription model, they'll get some amount of things and that really worked well for them. And we have seen success and especially in the Yahoo with that campaign. So it really transforms, right? Because there are a lot of people who wants to trade. The brokers are available online, but they still don't know what to buy. They don't trust the people who are saying, okay, buy this, right? Maybe they want to understand why this, right? And that's why their people are now looking at the subscription model and fine to pay, which was not earlier the case. So yeah, there are a lot of digital brands and businesses which could be built online completely with the only channel help. Coming to what are the key success story, right? We all would accept in certain way that with digital only, right? The buying has become or probably the acquisition of a customer has become really easy, right? Unlike before. And the key lessons which is learned that you need to find out what is the problem, right? The real problem, which we are trying to solve for the consumer. Second could be, you know, we can easily track where these consumers are coming from. The key or the global mantra would be the right attribution, right? I think that is where a lot of marketers find a challenge. Should we give a lasting attribution? Should we give a unified? I think attributing it to the right piece is going to be the key in time to come. And this lessons are learned right by a lot of traditional companies or the key marketers. I think this will evolve over a period of time and get us to the next phase. As somebody did mention about the post digital era kind of thing. That's what I can sum up. Great Vishal. Thank you. Thank you for your input. Just moving on. Sumit, this question will be for you. What can other business learn from digital only? So I think, Rupam, a lot of things that can be learned from digital only business. Some of the things I think Vishal very nicely explained as well. The challenges that we have in the other business. I mean, the first and foremost or other advertising platforms, first and foremost that who do I attribute it to? And this business model clearly gives us in true sense what performance marketing or performance advertising is. And hence each and everything can be tracked. That may be drop off analysis that you do while people come on your website. Typically what we need to understand is that days are gone when we used to consider customer as or make customer segmentation only based on age and where they reside at. I think one of the important things that people need to learn for example that we've been talking about zero the or similar success stories that people need to understand that consumer now is not just based on the geography and the age or certain parameters. We need to divide these consumers into product focus consumers, price sensitive consumers. There are certain who are browsers. There are certain customers who really want to kind of do research and they are here for research they might go to any other channel and buy from you. And likewise we need to segment these customers in a manner which you even do in your traditional or other channels as well. And the second most important point is like Prasad said like Michelle said that most of these successful digital businesses have been able to solve a customer problem. They could identify the customer problem. They could resolve the customer problem. It could be trust. It could be the reach. It could be some deep said convenience that I can conveniently order things sitting at my home and the problem statement was people were saying what do I do if I need to return it when I go to a shop. I try 10 things and I then choose what I need to wear. They said fine. We'll do free deliveries at same point in time. We'll take it back if you don't need it. That's a very small problem statement that they tried solving and hence a lot more customers started coming to these platforms. Swiggy for that matter. I mean COVID was an opportunity for them and they started in start deliveries. Right. Most of us are now using in some of those deliveries and their subscription rate has gone up. Now these are certain things that we need to learn. We need to be agile. We need to consider consumer pains and solve it in a manner that becomes absolutely simple. Absolutely flawless from a customer perspective. Having said that it's not only onboarding that needs to be looked at and all the processes that are involved in a customer journey also needs to be looked at from an insurance perspective. We also need to look at how we can digitize and we've done so many things around that that how can we digitize our claims. Most of our claims today are based on our AI where we do all of these claims. This is nothing but making the customer journey simple. We need to solve all these problems in a way and this is what somebody or other business needs to learn from us. Like I said, this customer is changing. Customer changes every now and then and the expectation of this customer is changing. So all the businesses, whether digital or not digital, they need to change with the customer. So many great thoughts actually. I think digital business thought about the speed in which we need to respond to evolving consumers and of course the consumer is evolving at a speed which is like everybody is trying to just keep up and catch up to it. Sandeep, any thoughts from you on this? Yeah, sure. So you spoke about, both of you spoke about the speed and the evolution. I think the biggest lesson that all of us can draw from the success of digital only businesses is the segment of one. That's how I say it. We just heard about micro segmentation. I would say it has gone to segment of one. Now segment of one is me as an investor or me as a consumer and specifically me and the segment of one. What are some of those aspects? The first one is obviously the content that I need. The great example of zero-dow or grow and some of those platforms is so much of content is in there that you could actually study if you wish to and really be a good investor before you start investing. So you gave me the content that I was looking for. Sometimes you could also give me personalized content if you have enough information about me. So the personalization from that perspective. The second one is the UI UX aspect. So this is a huge change. If I really come from mutual fund industry, if I see the way we were before the advent of this whole digitalization and today what we are is a sea change. And some of these digital only players have such better UI UX and I'm saying it openly on a forum that it is worth learning a lot from because they understand because the interface is only digital. For them, there is no physical interface. So obviously they put all of their energies on to making that interface better and that's something that we can all learn to be better. The third one is the delivery personalization or the segment of one delivery. Most of these new age delivery, last mile delivery network can give you actually tracking on your mobile phone as to where is your server, how far away is your sheet, what is the expected time of delivery and the details of that and you could rate each one in every transaction which I think gives a lot of control to me, a lot of confidence to me. I remember when Olas and Uber has happened, got a lot of my female colleagues said that the biggest advantage is I know who is going to be picking me up and my parents or my husband can track where that vehicle is. So I believe that that's a huge, huge advantage and we can all can learn from that as well. The next one is control. Somebody mentioned that word. It's a very, very beautiful word. You're giving control into the hands of your customer. He or she can choose. He can choose the amount. He can choose the time. So it doesn't have to come to you when your office is open. They can run that whenever they want. They can return the goods if they don't like. They can ask you questions and so on and so forth. Every query or complaint can be tracked personally and stuff like that. And the flexibility which is again a great lesson that we all can learn from the doodle only. They can give it to you the way you want. They can classify it the way you want. There are some ETFs that allow you to choose the stocks that you want in your ETF. Which is really something that we all can learn. So those are the hard lessons and they're two strong enablers that we can learn. One is the use of data. My goodness, the way the data gets used, the way data gets generated about your persona, your purchase habits, the way it is curated, the way it is augmented, getting it from first party, second party, third party, higher order CDPs, outstanding. I mean, you get a clear picture of who are you talking to. You can customize your offers. You could customize the product and so on and so forth. So use of data is, I guess, the strong enabler that we all can learn. And then at the brand level, where all of us are marketers essentially, I think differentiation is also another thing that I kind of admire. Each of these digital alternatives have positioned themselves very, very, very well. Digit insurance, for example, said we are only digital. And you see the whole communication, the whole positioning, every aspect of that positioning is very different. In the Me Too world of BFSI, I think those two enablers, use of data and differentiation stand very tall for me, apart from the segment of one, which is a great legacy that these businesses have left behind for the rest of us. Great, Sandeep. Sandeep, I actually have a follow-up question with you. It actually will just take the conversation forward in terms of what you were just talking about. Are there any specific digital strategies different sectors may adopt to gain the most from these learnings? So I just said segment of one. Now that's a huge one. That's a universal one. Everybody can do a segment of one. I've seen automobile makers, leveraging that very effectively to do localized deliveries, customization of the car and so on and so forth. To something as frequently used as a food. Customized offers get sent. If you like something, they will tell you that this is what you are like. So therefore here is the next suggestion that we have and so on and so forth. I think segment of one is a huge, huge lesson. Use of data, I mentioned. We all used to use data. Big data was in there, but the way it has been taken to a completely new level by augmenting it, by collaborating with others, by tracking that, by doing things like forecasting and various machine learning modules on that to really predict when is it that you're going to be ready for your next upgrade and so on and so forth. Are some of the very clearly things that everybody can learn. And the second one, which is a derived kind of a learning is differentiation. Because the moment you respect your customer as a segment of one, you've got to be also thinking as to how can I be more meaningful to this customer. And digital only have so much less of other contact. There's only physical screen contact, right? So therefore they have tried very, very hard to differentiate them. So I think all of us need to learn that, to be better in what we do. So whatever I said was very, very universal and I think all of us need to. Oh, absolutely something with the meaningful part which you use as a phrase, I think it's very, very critical because the brands need to be meaningful and differentiated to build brands to start. So there is one more thing that just struck my mind and I think the long-term sustainability, that is also pretty meaningfulness or what you stand for and so on and so forth. The culture that the brand represents. I think those things are also becoming very, very relevant, which is a fallout of digitization. You can say it is because the consumer has evolved in that fashion, but I think it is also something to do with the advent of social media, the kind of individualism, as well as the long-term thinking that everybody has gotten into. In investing, I mean, 55% of all the money invested in developed market last year was invested behind sustainable investment vehicles. So that has to become a very, very strong trend that all of us need to do. Yeah, because as Amanda was talking about, now these disconsumers can actually figure out what is the supply chain from where you are getting it to everything and these disconsumers are being conscious of it. Thank you, Sandeep, on that. So, which do you want to add to that, actually? I think a lot of us have covered in bits and pieces. I think a larger thing that we need to understand is that digital strategy or digital plan helps you in scaling up at a much faster pace. The reach that it gives you is enormous. I mean, today a seller sitting in one part of India could never think of distributing those products in the remotest of the part of our nation and that's what it does. So the scalability and the kind of expansion that you can think is something amazing that we need to understand. Also, like I said, attribution and attribution in terms of while you're onboarding a customer or attribution in terms of even after onboarding what are the kind of interactions that you're having, how can you make life of the consumer simple, even post-sales experience of the customer needs to be looked at. So the customer experience before he or she is buying your product and the service and after he or she is buying your product and the service entirely needs to be looked at. There are certain aspects that we need to understand. It will evolve. I mean, the consumer will evolve. The ecosystem will evolve. I mean, there are so many things where we need to break the journey and specifically when I talk about our sector while we would want to do everything do it yourself from a consumer perspective. But there are certain things from a risk underwriting perspective, removing the fraudulent elements. There are certain things that need to be looked at. The ecosystem needs to be developed in such a manner. Industry, regulator, all of us need to work together on that. One of the most important things to open that I would like to add other than that we've been talking about also is the product that we need to look at. What we've realized over a period of time and all the success stories that you need to look at. One, they have understood the customer. They've tried resolving the pinpoints from an onboarding and post-sales service perspective. They've looked at product and how can we simplify these products. And that is very important that we need to understand and that will help in the overall way how different sectors adopt to these digital specific strategies. I think largely these are the things that I would like to talk about. Insurance as a specific sector, like I said, from an onboarding to the entire experience the consumer needs to be looked at. We have now crossed the level where we call ourselves a digital insurer. Now we need to call ourselves AI-first company and that is where we need to work upon is what I feel about. Thank you, Vishal. Thank you. Sir, would you like to add to that? So Sandeep and Somesh have already covered most of the points but I'll just add one point into this digital strategies across industries. Every sector has taken a different approach to digital business. If I talk about FMCG, they are predominantly talking about the digital strategy to get the reach. More and more reach they can get out of digital platforms is what they are looking forward to. And on the other side, we have VFS industry which is predominantly more into getting the final convergence, getting the leads. So FMCG is currently more on the top of the funnel whereas VFSI is more into the bottom of the funnel, the programmatic, the performance lead. Everything is where the VFSI is currently focusing on. I think what I believe that in digital business the brand plays an equal role if not more. So what I believe that when we are talking about digital strategies, the VFSI industry should take a leaf out of FMCG industry or e-commerce industry and ensure that they are building that digital brand. They should adopt a digital strategy which is more about full funnel rather than always running behind the leads, the cost per lead and finally what kind of convergence they are getting. That approach has to be more about full funnel. The approach has to be more about building the awareness, creating the consideration and then using the audiences creating through this awareness consideration link to generate the leads out of it. That's how I look at it. Even from the insurance industry, the life insurance industry I think that approach is going to be more beneficial than just running behind the people to force them to start a journey, force them to get the code then run behind them to get them converted. I think it's all about giving that control flexibility to the consumers. Ensure that they find value in dealing with you. They find that easiness in dealing with you. They find that value in dealing with you and they find or they get that confidence of doing everything on their own. I think that's where I look at it from the overall digital business strategy. Get the reach and then ensure that those customers get easy processes to fulfill their requirements. Absolutely, Prasad. I mean the convenience and the interaction of the consumer has to be the best in class and you've talked about the UI, how it's evolving and things are changing. Vishal, any thoughts from your side on this? I think they've covered it all, but I love the way Prasad summed it up. What was there on my mind when you asked that question to Sandeep was the full funnel approach, which is the AIDA model, what we call in the marketing terminology. It's completely missing somewhere in the digital strategy today. Nobody looks digitally as a full funnel approach. Most of them is looking at the large, the lower funnel of conversion and that is one of the biggest challenge as a publisher or as a platform. We need to come up with a solution and Omnichannel is one of the answer to that. And the key is the messaging. On what frame you are trying to acquire that consumer, it's going to be very important. And that's why I say AIDA model is one of the things, we need to focus from a branding to a conversion strategy. We need to look at this at a full funnel approach with the Omnichannel strategy and the right message to the right person, which is relevancy in the measure. I mean, Sandeep spoke about meaningfulness, right? Personalization, relevancy and scalability. I think this overall, I can just sum it up on that. That's what we all need to say. Absolutely. So we shall have one more follow up question with you. It's on the supply side, how do you think BSP needs to evolve and what changes need to be thought about to actually build on the digital platform? That's a very good question. I think it's already evolved to a level but it will be an always as our industry itself is an always evolving industry. But one of the key things is more or less a lot of BSPs have started becoming an Omnichannel and we have been one of the leaders globally that Yahoo! BSP is an Omnichannel, right? So we are connected with connected TV, right? So we have Samsung TV. So you name it, name the brand, which will be Boo, Mxp, all of them is a part of the connected TV platform right now, right? Including Samsung and a lot of other smart TVs are coming up with their own connected TV channels. Whether we talk about digital out-of-home, there are good amount of aggregators which includes Lima, Adonmo, and Moving Walls there are a lot of companies who have already evolved to a programmatic digital out-of-home, right? Now the biggest thing is to make marketeers engage and understand that the way they look at digital, right? Rupam, that is to change with the supply as well. That lot of education is now happening from our side to a lot of people because digital, when we talk it's largely about 101 but when we talk about connected TV or when we talk about digital out-of-home we talk in a multiplier of 4 or 5 because it's not the one-to-one screen what you're talking about. So I think it is evolving and it will be an always evolving thing like audio, right, in a car, programmatic audio. So connected with Spotify, Ghana, you name it and we are all connected with that. So I think supply has evolved already and it's far ahead right now before the time come for India because India is going to take a little bit of time and overall adoption of the only channel but we are well-prepared from the ESP side. Good, good, Shal, thank you. I have just about a minute left, Sandeep would you like to add to this question? The supply side of course is an important element of the world. Yeah, I think we Shal covered most of it. I'm going to be talking about two anti-learnings or something that we all need to be mindful about, right? One is, and since we spoke a lot about the discount brokerage and stuff like that we as manufacturers have to do quite a lot of unlearning of some of these investors who came in without too much of a thinking and educate them about the right way of using the product, right? So because a product like Mutual Fund which is a little difficult product to kind of use because it was democratized to such an extent that anybody could invest whichever way and this is two more on the equity side and the kind of demand accounts got opened up everybody had a demand account and most of them didn't know what to do with it and as a result of which they were negative experiences so we have to be very conscious about helping or hand-holding the investors to unlearn some of the wrong things that they may have learned because not everything can be learned on your own sometimes you need an expert. So one aspect is that and second positive aspect of that is we have to very quickly make changes to the products that we kind of offer. The great example here is passive investing in Mutual Funds all Mutual Funds were active for a very long time and suddenly because of this democratization people started taking a lot of interest in passive as a result of which all of us had to really quickly repurpose our portfolio launch some of the new products communicate aggressively on that side of it so getting the product suit ready for the supply supply is in place as Vishal said but the learning and learning of the investors and getting making changes to your product mix and getting some of the more relevant products ready are some of the specs on the supply side that we all have to be very careful about. Great, thank you Sandeep and Prasad, Somesh, Vishal great inputs from all of you this brings to an end to our panel one discussion, Subna, over to you. Thank you so much gentlemen for conducting that very engaging session I think you shared some of really great insights from your experiences in your digital journeys and exploration so far thank you very much for that lovely session thank you Rupam for moderating it for all of us