 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. It wasn't a matter of I want to do this. It was literally I have to do this. It was something inside of me. It's hard to describe but it's almost like I knew that I was going to be something different. I always knew and then I got this thing. This is it. I didn't have to spend time doing other things. I had income coming in and the ironic thing is like when you're starting out and you really need the help you don't get any and nobody really understands. Nobody really understood what I was doing even my girlfriend or anyone that was around me. They didn't understand what I was doing. It was a bit strange. Why are you eating every three hours? Why are you doing this? You don't want to go out. You don't want to do anything. You're just doing this. This is a bit obsessive. Why are you doing this? When you start to get successful and win concerts and get accolades and get covers on the magazines everyone's like, ah, okay. And now they start to get a bit behind you. And the more successful are, the more support you get, the more money you get. But at the start you get nothing. At the time I worked on a nightclub and there was a huge riot in there and one of the bouncers got stabbed, nearly died and all this stuff and I said, screw this. Everyone loves you, right? And I was naive enough to believe it. Like everyone loves me because I'm such a great guy and I'm such a successful guy and everyone loves me because they don't fucking love you. They're around you because it's good for them and what they can take from you. It's always searching that no matter what it is, naturally, chemically, we're just always wanting more because we never feel truly satisfied. We never feel truly fulfilled and that's a sad place to be because that's not the way we should be fucking living. I think the whole world's going backwards where everybody, that's why drug abuse, alcohol abuse, mental health was on the rise because there's no blueprint or manual how we should be living life. We haven't got a fucking clue. Is it to be standing on stage in one of the tournaments? Is it to be interviewing people that has it to be an offer or has it to be a footballer because they're still something missing, they're always still craving more. I was like, so I've won the Mr. Olympia that I wanted to win. Not only that, I've set a new standard in the sport and now my career's over. It's over, mate. You've taught your bicep, it's over. You can't. So no shame and no instructions, no nothing. And the night before, I was drinking vodka and doing lines of coke and I'm going to go and do, I asked you in the jungle, right? And I would rather die at 45, 50 years old having my name in the record books and having really achieved something with my life than to live a life like all these people around me. I live to a fucking hundred, but I don't achieve anything. I'll take option one. Boom, we're on. We're on. Yes. We're live. Sex team, Mr. Olympia, Doreen Yates, how are you doing? It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Chatting back and forth for a bit and Destiny brought me to Glasgow and here I am. What's the vote, brother? How about you? I'm good, mate. I've been on a pretty intense tour of the UK with my nutrition brand, DIY Nutrition, going round the gyms and meeting the people, training some lucky winners or unlucky as they might be as trained with me. So it's been intense and I'm finishing up here in Glasgow now with some coaching and looking forward to going back home and living in Spain. So get back to the sun. I saw the sun this morning. It's the first time I've seen the sun, I think, since about two weeks or so. Welcome to Scotland. Scotland, Birmingham, London, it was all pretty much the same in this tour. Sex team, Mr. Olympia, but there's more depth to you. There's more understanding of the brain, not just the body, but it's quite a spiritual person. I believe we're all spiritual. We're all kind of searching. No matter if it's 1 to 1, Mr. Universe, I'll be the biggest podcast on the planet. You're searching through something, but I like to go back to the start of my guests. Let's go back to the roots where it began. So yeah, the Mr. Olympia quest, it started when I was... the thought started when I was young, at least. I didn't know what it was. I just always felt I'm different from everybody else, and I'm destined for something different, and that was a very strong feeling that I had, but I didn't know what it was until I came across Bodybuilding. And I came across Bodybuilding really the last year when I was at school, so I was about 16, was into martial arts originally. Not as it is now, I didn't have much martial arts with Akrati and Kung Fu, so I was doing a bit of that. I came across Bodybuilding and Bodybuilding magazines, and I was fascinated by it, and I was doing a little bit of training last year at school. And at 16, my mom decided to move away from Birmingham, and I decided to stay. I basically left home at 16, and it wasn't a lifestyle that was conducive to going to the gym or anything like that, so I didn't keep it up. I ended up in the detention centre when I was, I think I was 19 when I went in there, and they had weights in there, so I was kind of reintroduced back to the weights, and 300 guys in there, apparently I was kind of like the strongest, fittest guy in there with the best natural physique, so, ah, this is it. But I didn't know where it was going to lead, I just knew this was something positive, and I didn't want to go down this road having your freedom taken away from me, it was a huge shock for me, and I was like, I don't want to ever experience this again, so this is something that I'm good at, I love it, and it's something positive, and that was basically it, and it still took me time to, you know, even when I left the detention centre, I had to get a job, I had to get somewhere to live, I had to get some stability in my life, and then I said, right, I've got my job, I've got my apartment, everything was like very planned out. I was always studying nutrition and bodybuilding as much as I could before I was even doing it, so I had a lot of information, I said I'm going to start bodybuilding, and I'm going to do competitions, and something's going to come good from this, so that's pretty much all, as far as I thought at the start, you know. What was it like growing up in Birmingham? Well, I grew up until I was 13, I grew up outside of Birmingham, I went a little small-holding, a little farm, so we had some horses, my mum was a horse rider. I used to teach horse riding, I had my own pony, my sister had a pony with some dogs and cats and ducks, and little, you know, wasn't a functional farm, I say a small-holding. So it was quite ideal, kind of life really, I lived on this farm with these animals, and at 13, my dad had a heart attack and he died, and that just changed everything, and then short after that, my mum met another guy, and he was from Birmingham, so we moved to Birmingham from this to a totally different environment, and I guess, you know, I was still upset, I was still angry, confused, my dad wasn't there, and I don't know, I just felt like that wasn't really addressed by anyone around me, and I would do really well at school and all that stuff, and after that point, I just didn't see the point, so I wasn't really interested in doing well at school, and when I left home at 16, you know, I was living on friends' couches or whatever, you know, I didn't have stability, and you know, at that point, if you're a teenager, you're either a punk, a skinhead, a mod, or something like that, so me and my friends were all skinheads and some friends were punks, and that became kind of like, I guess that's what a gang is, right? It's a surrogate family that I felt, you know, my mates around me were family, so that became my family at the time, and yeah, I got sent to the detention centre just for something silly, so it was nothing heavy, you know, we'd have a few drunken fights on the weekends and stuff like that, but nothing, not like now with the kids carrying knives and guns all the time and stuff, it's just usually just some gang fights and fists and stuff like that, so it was totally different from my earlier childhood, but I blended in and became a city guy, I guess. How much does your dad's death play a part were you alone up before, like kind of on the farm, nature, kind of distance from home? I was, yeah, because like, I lived on this farm, and like my mates from school, they lived on council estates, so it was a bit different already that I lived on a farm and had a horse, and my mum was from a very middle-class background, the parents were both teachers, music teacher, art teacher, and had a very, you know, cut-glass, queen-like accent, so yeah, this Posh mom and you got horses and you live on a farm, so it was automatically different, and I didn't live next door to my mate, you know, if I want to go visit friends, there's two miles away, so walk or get on your bike, so it's very active, but I think I was, yeah, was always very independent. I did strange things that now I look back and say, oh, that was, you know, but at the time I didn't know it was unusual, like you used to have bonfire night, I don't remember, it's not PC to have bonfire night, but then bonfire night was a big thing, so I used to, I was like 10 years old, got my horse, took my horse, used to chop down trees, tie all the trees on a rope to the horse, drag them back and build this massive bonfire all on my own, and then I started going to football, started going to Birmingham, football on the bus, 12 years old and was going to the football on my own so I had no one to go with, because the older lads didn't want me hanging around, I was a kid, right, and the kids of my age wouldn't be able to sneak off, or they wouldn't get permission from their parents, because, you know, going to a football match in those days, it was a hairy thing, so I was doing things like way ahead of everybody else, but I just thought it was normal, looking back now, I think, I just had a strong sense of independence, I think, from day one. Do you feel you needed to have that though after your dad died because you had to be the man of the house sort of thing? I think there is a bit of that as well, and I think my mum didn't really know how to handle my loss, so her way of handling it was like just let me do whatever I want, so there wasn't really any control, I just did pretty much what I wanted to do. Yeah, when you started bodybuilding, was that your escape? Bodybuilding for me was like I just looked at everything around me, and I couldn't relate to it. I couldn't relate to the environment and people's lack of vision, lack of ambition, like get a job, get a council house, or get a house, have some kids, go to work, eat, shit, breathe. I'm like, this is not for me, there must be much more out there, and just reading the bodybuilding magazines and reading about these guys in America, California on the beach, and just a whole new world that I tapped into, and I was like, yeah, maybe that's the way I can change my life, so I think the reason I was so focused from day one, it was very easy to get distracted, especially when you're 20, 21 years old, when I started, all your mates are still going out, you've got girls to chase, and all this stuff going on. It wasn't a matter of I want to do this, it was literally I have to do this. It was something inside of me, almost like, it's hard to describe, but it's almost like I knew that I was going to be something different. I always knew, and then I got this thing, this is it, but I didn't realize how far it could take me. At that point, I wanted to win some competitions, hey, maybe I get my own gym, or something like that, and make my own, live and be independent. I didn't want to work for anybody else. I tried a few, when I was a teenager, and I just end up losing the job, because I'd tell a guy to fuck himself, because I didn't like the way he was talking to me. I didn't like any other male telling me what to do, because I was deep down, and probably thinking, you ain't my dad, you don't tell me what to do. So I had that chip on my shoulder, so I had to find a way to work for myself, I couldn't work for anyone else. And in the end, I was able to be successful through bodybuilding and make my own way, in society. I remember feeling really pleased that I'm living next door to stockbrokers and university lecturers and stuff like this, and I'm this big lump of muscle. They didn't even know what I was doing. I was just a big guy at a gym. What was it like seeing you were in the detention centre? The majority of kids start that life of crime and never get out of it. What was going through your mind when you were in there? Did you value your freedom so much that you decided to start this? I was a free spirit, man. I've always been a free spirit. You know, I grew up on this little farm and I used to cycle everywhere and walk and had no time. Nobody's telling me what to do. And in there, you literally become a number. And I wasn't a criminal. I was just a kid that was, you know, being a teenager, getting drunk and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The worst things I ever did was getting to a fight. I didn't steal from anybody. I wasn't a career criminal or anything like that. But some of the guys in there were, and I've said it before, but there's one distinct incident that I remember was a lad from Birmingham. I still see him around sometimes and he's still in that life, you know, in and out of jail. So one day, one of the screws was like giving him a bollock in and saying, you better fix up, man. You better change your attitude. Otherwise, you'll be in and out of jail for your life. And he said, so what? Do I give a fuck? I don't give a fuck. So I was like, I do. This is the same for me. I don't belong here. Actually, you know, while I was there, I got treated with a lot of respect from the other lads that was in there, even the prison officers because the way I conducted myself and the fact that I was very physical as well. So it served me well, but I didn't ever want to go back there again. So I was determined on that. What was the first competition you entered? First, really first competition I entered. Sometimes I even forget to mention it because it wasn't like a real competition, I guess. I was trained at this gym in Birmingham on Temple Street that later I came to own it and called it Temple Gym. But it was called Martin's Gym at the time because the guy called Martin was running it. And Martin was... It was a photographer. He used to work for the police doing their photography, you know, crime scenes and all that. So he had all the photography equipment and it was the gym owner because this was 1984. So people don't walk around with cameras and certainly no iPhones. So it was fortunate that he was there at that time and he had a camera because he took pictures of me. Those are the first pictures ever taken on my physique and I've been training for about eight, nine months, seriously. Apart from bits, I did one of my school and bits I did in detention centre that was serious training and he's got those pictures and he said, I've got a competition coming up in a few weeks. Mr Birmingham. You know, just into gyms from Birmingham. You should go in the first time and I was like, no, I don't want to do that. I'm not feeling really feel ready. And I don't know. I got flu or something. I couldn't train for a week. I didn't eat properly. But I looked in the mirror. I lost a few pounds and I was like, shit, I look a bit shredded like that. You know what? I might as just step into this contest. So that was the only time that I ever did anything like being totally unprepared. But I went to boots. Got my sudden tan it was called. I put a coat of this. I thought it was looking really brown. But if you look at the pictures now, it's still white as the milk. But it was super white as a kid and I had no colour. So I went in the first timers and I won it, you know. And I was natural. I hadn't been training long and the lads that I beat, you know, they're on a bit of juice and everything. So that was good. And I say, right, next year, I'm going to do a proper, I'm going to go into a competition in the federation. EFBB was called at the time. So that's the English version of the IFBB, which is the federation that promotes Mr. Olympia and everything with all the, that's all the guys that I looked up to, they compete in the IFBB at the pro level. So I said, all right, I'm going to go to this competition, novice competition. It's called intermediates, but it's basically novice. Somebody that hasn't won a contest before. I'd like to win the qualifying round and then I'd like to go to the British championship later in the year in that class and that's my goal. I want to be a novice British champion this year, got it all planned out, everything, went to the competition, came on stage, did my posing, came off the stage and there's some judges and officials there, all like, waiting. One of them was Ron Davis and Ron Davis was the head of the English Federation, but he was also judge at the Mr. Olympia. So this is a guy that knows, he knows the sport inside out. So it was Ron Davis and some other guys and Ron said to me, where have you come from? I'm from Birmingham, he's like, oh, what are you doing in this novice competition? Because I'm a novice never competed before, but you should be in a heavyweight. I don't think I'm good enough for the heavyweights in a year or two, but I'm a novice right now, practically laughing at me like this kid. Not good enough. Listen, you're probably the best heavyweight we've got in the country right now and couldn't really take it in, you know? And I said, look, I want you to come and do a trial next week for our team in the heavyweights to go compete in the World Games, which is a world championship. So I'm going one weekend I'm being a novice competitor and he's asking me to go in a world championship in a couple of weeks later, but... Okay, and I remember because I was doing a bit of work on the door, I had no car, I had nothing, man. I had an apartment with not much furniture in there and a mattress on the floor instead of a proper bed. All my money went to the training fees, bus fares, food, supplements, and by the time I'd done this contest I was pretty much like I didn't have any money, so I even had to borrow money to go to the trials, you know? So I went to the trials, got picked for the British team and went to the World Games and got seventh place there out of 13 guys, which, you know, for somebody that just started out, it was pretty phenomenal, but I remember saying I was kind of talked into this. I wasn't ready to be able to have a chance of winning, so in the future nobody's going to twist my arm. I'm going to plan everything. I'm going to be in control of everything. I'm not going to compete in a contest unless I feel I've got a chance to win it. But having said that, it was a great experience. People got to see me. I went on my first paid guest appearance to Northern Ireland on a plane. I hadn't been on a plane before, all that. So this was the start of it. And then I won the British Championship. I won the British Championship in 1986 and that was a bit of... I won the heavyweight class, but they didn't give me the overall championship. At that point there was four weight classes. You have a winner from each weight class and then they choose the overall and he gets to be pro status and compete as a pro. And I should have won that contest. Everyone pretty much knew that, it was a little bit of politics, maybe because I was the guy that just didn't really speak to anybody, didn't try to kiss anyone's ass, just went to the gym and train and turn up at the competition where other people were kind of in the clique or whatever. I don't know, but everything happens for a reason. If I'd have won at that point, I really wasn't ready to be a pro. So I'm philosophical about everything that happens. It's always happening for a reason. And in 1988 I won the heavyweight again and the overall and easily got my pro status. And that was the end of my amateur career in UK. So when it started opening doors, when you started getting flights and getting away for the first time, was that when you realised, okay, I've got something here and they decided to give it everything? Well, it happened as a story. Like, 1986 I won the British championship, the heavyweight, but I didn't win the overall. In 1987 I had an injury. So I had surgery on my hip, little surgery on the hip because I had an injury. Well, something interesting happened to me. My doctor, because I told him, look, I'm doing these competitions, so I'm going to start taking steroids. At first he didn't want to do it because he thought I was a kid just messing about. But he saw me on the TV. I'm at the World Games, yeah. So now he's like, I get it. You're not messing about. So he said, look, I can't give him to you, I'll check your blood and make sure you're okay. So I went and he said, I saw you on the TV and I said, yeah, I'm British champion now as well. He's like, ah, this, because he's a businessman as well as being a doctor. He's like this gym business in the 80s. Yeah, it was the new thing, right? It was just dying, right? It was just exploding. It's a good business, right? This gym business. I said, oh, I think so, yeah. He said, all right. He said, would you like to open your own gym? I said, yeah, of course I would, yeah, but I don't have money. He's like, yeah, well, I've got the money. He said, so go try and find a premises for a gym. Tell me what you want for the gym. I'll buy all the equipment and you run it and we pay the overheads and then we split the profits 50-50. I said, sounds good. And he said, of course it's the cash business at the time it was, all right. And you can steal from me if you want to but I'm not really going to find out. He said, but there's something about you. I know you won't do that. So the offer's on the table. I said, great, okay. So the guy that was in Temple Gym, Martin, I don't know what happened there, the story exactly, but he'd gone. So the building was vacant. And I knew this place well. I was right in the centre of Birmingham and it had a real atmosphere. It was down these stairs in the basement. It had been a gym there and there was something for like 20 years. And I knew the guy that had the lease. So I managed to get hold of him. I said, I'll need to speak to you. So we had the conversation. I told him everything. He said, okay. He said, you know me, Darian. He said, I've got so many businesses and I've been ripped off left, right and centre all over the years. I know. He said, but there's something about you. I know you won't do that. So I want to give you the, you can have the building, but you've got to do the deal with me. Exactly the same deal as the doctor I could do on my friend. You're the same and take the building. So that was, that's how I got my first gym. So I was already, you know, starting to make a living now from, from bodybuilding. I was able to buy a car. I could drive a car at 11 years old. My dad taught me to drive, but I didn't have one till I was 25 because I didn't have any money. It was all going into this, into the bodybuilding. So I got the gym in 87. I was starting to do appearances. I got my first sponsorship from a British company. And the guy was very nice. Guys passed on now. Dave McInerney had a company in Birmingham called Tropicana. And he said, look, I'm going to give you a sponsorship contract. You helped me advertise my products. But I know you're going to do well when you go to America and you'll probably get better opportunities. So if you do, we'll run it to then and, you know, if you want to, want to leave, you can leave. So there's a few people along the way that helped me. But yeah, I was, when I became British championship, I got the gym, I was doing appearances. So it was already changing my life in a positive way. It was more to come. How, as a transition, once you start winning competitions, for your training and you want to be the best on the planet, how did you see the rise in your training and your, to be the best, I believe you've got to make sacrifices. You've got to become as a lonely journey and your people maybe not see that. But for you, like, what was the transitions to be the best and go to the top? Like, how did that up your training, your food and more detail to everything you're putting into your body? It was like, from day one, I was giving it 100%. I've got every workout, even from that first workout that I did in 1983, I've got it written down. Every, every workout written down, you know, changes in diets, supplements, things like that. When I started taking steroids, what I'm taking, measurements, very analytical, got this going all the way back to the start. So I was always giving 100% of what I could give. But when you've got a sponsorship and you've got income coming in, of course you can put more into it because you don't have to go, you know, when I was starting, I was doing security on the doors. So this all takes a bit of time and energy. When you start making money from the sport, then you can put even more energy into it because you don't have anything. I didn't have anything else to do, didn't have to go to a job, didn't have to do anything. But you've got to have an absolute tonal vision to be the best in anything, I think. It was a sport or a business or anything. You've got to have that tonal vision. So I had that from the start but I was able to maybe put more into it as I went along because I had more time, basically, and didn't have to spend time doing other things. I had income coming in and the ironic thing is like, when you're starting out and you really need the help you don't get any. And nobody really understands nobody really understood what I was doing even my girlfriend or anyone that was around me. They didn't understand what I was doing here. It was a bit strange. Why are you eating every three hours? Why are you doing this? Why are you just... You don't want to go out, you don't want to do anything, just doing this. This is a bit obsessive. Why are you doing this? When you start to get successful and win concess and get accolades and get covers on the magazines, everyone's like, ah, okay. And now they start to get a bit behind you. And the more successful are, the more support you get, the more money you get. But at the start you get nothing. So you've got to really believe in yourself. You've always got to believe in yourself but the start is the hardest because nobody really understood what I was doing or believed that I could do it until I am. Fortunately quite early on I was successful. So you've either got it or you haven't in bodybuilding. Because nobody else sees your vision. With the majority of people being so weak people speak them out their visions because they think it's just a crazy idea because everybody's got life changing ideas like world changing ideas that people just used to speak out before. Yeah, you've got to put them into action though. Everything that you think and you focus on can come from reality if you really focus on it enough. It's just hard. Especially if your environment's not conducive and other people around you have got a totally different vision. It takes real strength of character and single-mindedness to just keep on pushing through and believing in yourself. That's what it takes. You've got to be a bouncer and getting paid buttons but you still had that vision to be the best on the planet. It was that difficult putting your life on the line because back then 80s and stuff nobody fucked about in the doors and bouncers gave good beatings out as well. Well, fortunately I worked in let's say nice places here. Was that a strategy that you wanted because you... Listen I'm just here to earn some money man not here because I want to be a tough guy it happens and you're going to deal with it but I worked in kind of quite trendy wine bars they were wine bars with a thing at the time and so my policy that I was taught by somebody that taught me is like if you see somebody that you think is going to be a problem you just don't let them in, you just stop them there if you're going to have a confrontation better have it like on the steps on the door if you think it's going to be a bigger problem you've got to get them out then and it was a certain clientele that the owner is looking for so it's kind of like a fashion police you're not suitable you're not suitable so I didn't really have too much problem with that kind of crowd only one time I worked on a nightclub and there was a huge huge riot in there and I had nearly died and all this stuff and I said screw this, I don't know what I was getting at the time 20 quid a night or something at the time it's definitely not worth it but it was I knew it was a temporary thing you know that at some point I knew I'm going to get out this is just pocket money for a while just to help me pay the bills and so on and when I got the gym then of course I didn't have to do that anymore the gym was doing quite well back in the 80s small bodybuilding gyms were making decent money because they didn't have all the big commercial gyms you have now so I was doing okay with that and then the sponsorship so I think I did the doors for about a year and a half, two years maximum it's not a long time you didn't realize you don't want to do that anymore I started doing the doors thinking this is a good career option it was a better option than the physical work I was doing doing the physical work construction and stuff like that so I could do it three or four nights on the doors and I'll be enough to get by for now I knew something was around the corner so it was just a stopgap for me really so when you got your pro license are the master lumpers at 91? no so you get your pro status just for people that don't know how it works to compete in professional contests not something you can choose to no you got to go through the ranks so it's changed now and they're giving out pro status much more easily now at that point you basically got to be the best guy in your country on that year and one person then you get your pro status you can compete as a professional but then as a professional you've got to go in a pro show and get in a top three mostly to qualify for Mr Olympia so Mr Olympia is basically the best of all the professional bodybuilders in that year Joe Weeder came up with Mr Olympia for that reason who is the best single professional bodybuilder on the planet this year that's Mr Olympia that's undisputed everyone accepts that but even if you're professional you can't just enter into Mr Olympia in the top five by being top three in a pro show there was a couple of them Knight of Champions and the Arnold Schwarzenegger show where they would accept top five so my first pro show was Knight of Champions in New York and that was a top five qualify for Mr Olympia and I put myself under a bit of pressure at this point I don't know if I really even told anybody but I made the vow to myself if I don't place in the top five of this contest then that's it I won't compete anymore because of all the sacrifice that goes into it and because you're also let's be honest bodybuilding using chemicals it's not just bodybuilding it's many sports but highly competitive sports people do whatever they can do to win so there's risks that come along with that so I'm not going to and I'd reserve people around me you know they neglected their job they neglected their family they had no social life they spent all the money on bodybuilding but they weren't going anywhere it was a waste so I didn't want to be one of those guys and I had a young son a girlfriend and they lose time with you they lose focus all these things I say if I don't make it if I don't get in the top five because I look at the history of bodybuilding and you've either got it or you haven't when people come along like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Lee Haney or any of the champions it's apparent from they might not win the first contest but they'll be second or third you can tell they're going to go somewhere so fortunately I got second in that first show so okay if I hadn't got in the top five I would have not stopped training but I probably would have opened more gyms and had more time and more focus to do that and spend time with a family but I got second I didn't go to Mr Olympia that year because I wanted to put a bit more time in so I went back to that same contest the following year in 1991 and I won it and I went to Mr Olympia to compete against Lee Haney who was basically Mr Olympia when I started training the first time I'm coming up here's Mr Olympia and now I'm going to compete against him and I had to change my mindset from being a bit of a fan to being like I wanted to try and beat this guy so that required a change of mindset so when you go kid from England one of the first ever being an outsider were you used to that did that make you feel okay I'm out and then disappear but did that play did that help you a lot from being a kid and being away from everybody that going over there so old Americans so glitz and glam I think so because even in the British scene I was an outsider I never tried to be anything else because I'm just me I'm not being purposely antisocial or anything like that it's just me so I can only be how I am I never want to try and be anything else so I was already used to being a bit of the outsider anyway and I was told well a lot of people when I went to America that you won't do well because it's a lot of politics and you need to know the right people and you need to have your pictures in the magazines otherwise they're not going to know who you are and that's going to affect your results and nobody in America knows who you are you've been in a couple of British magazines but over there there's nothing they don't know who you are and I just said you know what I just don't listen to any of this I think if you're good enough people have to see it and people have to recognise it so I'd be so bloody good that they can't do that and I went and I got close second in that first one but yeah being backstage and all the guys know each other right because they're used to competing to each other so they're all talking to each other and they're in a corner on my own but I don't mind because my only statement I need to make and that's my statement there's my work I've done all this I've created this and I don't need to say anything it's there what was it like when you got the second they're just showing up nobody really knew who you were and then competing against one of the greatest of all time like would it be any one out of seven, eight in a row yeah I got at that point when I competed against and I'd got second in night champions come back the next year I won it and I was in and saying hey this guy is more or less the same height as Haney more or less the same size we've never seen anyone that can stand next to Lee Haney with the size and everything so people were already saying we could maybe have a chance by that point and I really went there to try to win with the greatest respect to the Lee Haney as champion but I had to go there with that and try and win so three rounds of judging I won one here won two so it was the first time that ever happened that he had been beaten and around so you could say it was reasonably close for my debut of course I wanted to win but I was happy with second to Lee Haney at that point what did you do differently that year to then go and win it the next year well Lee Haney announced his retirement so do you think that's because he knew you were coming he'd got eight Mr Olympias all right so he's now got the record so I'm not saying that my presence was solely what made his decision but he's got eight right he's got the record most Mr Olympias ever and this guy that just got second to me he's coming up he's going to continue to improve where I'm been here eight times Mr Olympia and the eighth one he pulled out all the stops to be as good as he could I know because I spoke to the guy that trained with him he definitely knew you were coming and he put an extra effort that year because he knew he had a real challenge on his hands so I mean what's to gain the next year if he beat me he would get nine he could still be a record holder but if he lost it kind of taints the record so nothing particularly to gain and everything to lose so why do it so it's probably a factor in his decision see when you win that how hard is it then to stay two feet in the ground imagine everybody wanting to do that tension you've got all the bullshitters all the liars, everybody promising you the world no doubt your character you'll always be grateful for that but how hard is it to stay focused and stay I don't want to just win one, I want more and you become greedy towards it but how hard is that for the outsider to then become very popular not just in the UK but America well to answer the question about the first win what did I do differently I did everything different I was continuing to do what I was doing but I was still developing and I knew Lee Haney wasn't there so I knew my competition was coming for a few guys Leela Brader Sean Ray Vince Taylor who were smaller than me so I got even bigger that year but I said you know what I don't mind sacrifice in a bit of size to come in like super razor sharp because these smaller guys are sharp so if I can be much bigger than them and match them on a condition they got no chance so I kind of came down a bit in body weight less than I could have displayed on stage that year to be super shredded and that was the outcome and the next year was when I made the real big breakthrough because I was keeping notes I was taking pictures every week I was analysing what I'm doing I said okay look at 92 my first win you're in shape mate but you lost another £15 because you wanted to get sharper and sharper you got a little bit sharper but what you did you just basically cannibalise muscle tissue you lost muscle in those last few weeks so next time don't do that so next time I came in from 240, 240 in 92 to 257, 258 so as a Mr. Olympia winner coming in £15, £16 heavier than next year is totally unheard of but it's because I was still learning yeah you must have found some magic drug or something that you I didn't do anything different chemically than the year before I just managed my nutrition better and didn't sacrifice my muscle tissue and 93 then it was like this guy has set new standards for bodybuilding he'll never be decent and all this stuff and yeah there's a huge demand on your time I had a contract with WEDA with the WEDA publishing they did Flex magazine Muscle & Fitness and WEDA would like me to be moving out to California there's more opportunities out there all this stuff and I was tempted and kind of wrestled with it back and forth but I said if I'm out then California WEDA can call on me on my time, can he do this, can he go here and I'm under contract so I can't really say no so that there's some time away and then you know there's a whole scene out there there's parties, there's girls, there's this, there's that I said you know what better I stay here in Birmingham with the people I know training in the gym that I trained in as an amateur keep my feet on the ground and minimize distractions because how I got there in the first place is by total tunnel vision, dedication and just training and eating and sleeping I want to continue doing that and it'll be difficult to do that and then of course, yeah everyone loves you right and I was naive enough to believe it like everyone loves me because I'm such a great guy and I'm such a successful guy and everyone loves me because they love they don't fucking love you they're around you because it's good for them and what they can take from you and I had to learn this lesson over and over again until I kind of got it you know see when you you're in America, you win that for the first time see coming back, do you feel, see when you says at the start as well that you wouldn't, you don't want for anybody you just tell them to fuck off the part of that help you make that decision as well because you thought he could maybe phone you at any time yeah absolutely that was it and I'm almost impossible to manipulate like people try but and you know if you're number one you can do it right you've got the power to say no if you're number one because you're number one right so there's a funny story I tell but it's, you know people always trying to pull you in this direction and that direction and I'll just be like stubborn, I'm very stubborn I'll just be like no um so the weed are publishing, there's no internet then you know so how do you get your information about bodybuilding was in magazines somehow it was a bit more, I don't know, what's the word romantic or something you're waiting you're waiting for that magazine to come into W.A. Smith is it there today, no it's not there today but there tomorrow and you're excited to get that magazine because there was that lack of information you only got the magazines coming to look at your who won the contest, how does this guy train now you got the internet um so yeah I just decided um to keep my feet on the ground so Joe had the two magazines, he had the Flex magazine which was primarily bodybuilding and had Muscle and Fitness which is a bit more mainstream so Flex magazine I've already been on the cover of that several times because it's all hardcore and weights and grunting and sweating so he wanted me to do one for Muscle and Fitness and Muscle and Fitness was always a bodybuilder and a model, female model you know regular skinny model because it appealed to the mainstream yeah so it's all there so I'm doing this shoot with a model and it's like they take a picture it's like so Joe Weed is like Dorian is smiling I'm trying, I can't I just couldn't do this, I just couldn't do a full smile I mean he asked me to smile for a camera now I can do it but then I couldn't do it and um so he's trying everything to get me to smile you know get the model get my wife and in the end it's just you know he's aspirated and it's just like just let this guy do what he wants so that's how it all turns out, in the end people just give up it's just like he's gonna do what he wants to just let him do it see when you got your first one what was the feeling for myself I'm always wanting more, I'm never satisfied I never feel complete and sometimes I question that am I just being greedy and not showing gratitude but for yourself when you're wanting when you achieve a goal that you've set out did you ever feel satisfied I was just straight back into the gym I never felt satisfied not that I was unsatisfied I was like shit I don't look good it was more like a mission that was on so now I've got to be Mr. Olympia now I've got to be Mr. Olympia and recognises the best Mr. Olympia ever up to this point the most muscle and the condition and everything like that set a new standard so where do I go from here and a lot of people told me maybe they're in a way they're smarter people than me they're like me you just all you need to do now stop this mad crazy heavy training you're doing cruise yeah cruise on your training earn the money do the appearances go here earn the money cash in cash in cash in you don't need to push it anymore because where you are is like nobody can get that for yours anyway so just maintain and but I wasn't interested in that I was interested in like can I get better like you know anybody there's any a martial artist a runner or whatever it's like can I get faster can I get better that's what's driving you not the money the money is good that you're now making a living out what you love and enjoy doing but it's the drive it's the passion you always want to see if you can get bigger or faster or whatever it is that you're doing you want to push the envelope and that's what I wanted to do and in doing that somehow I I got injured because I was just pushing all the time and not giving myself a break I got injured near to a contest because now what I realize and what I teach people if I'm helping them now when you're getting ready for a contest and you're on that contest diet and your body fat's getting lower and lower and you may be a little dehydrated and you for sure you're a little bit exhausted and tired and you really don't sleep well when you're on a contest diet because you having an internal alarm clock basically when you go to sleep and your blood sugar drops too low because you're really hungry there's a alarm bell goes off in your head and said wake up wake up because you're starving and you need to eat so you wake up and sure your sleep's broken you're more exhausted you're more vulnerable to injury because of all those factors so I advise people now to kind of back off the intensity and the weights a little bit going into the contest to try and avoid injury so that's the one thing that I really learned and I would change I wouldn't go back and change it because everything happens for a reason as I said even my injuries happen for a reason I tore my tricep tendon on my last Mr. Olympia just three weeks before in 97 and I had surgery I tried to recover and then I had to you know announce my retirement and still didn't really hit me until like the next year and it's like what am I doing now who am I what's the point to life I've been so deep into this so every ounce of my soul going into this and now it's over and what do you do and who are you and it's just a whole crisis and depression that's very common with retired athletes because you lost that you lost that high it's a drug you haven't got it anymore and where are you going and what you're doing and this opened up a whole avenue of me searching soul searching and that all happened for a reason and which I can see now but at the time you don't know that you don't want to be there it's like feels like hell you know yeah you look at boxers footballers when they kind of retire or injure forces them out that they can't handle that do you think that's part of with the exercise as well and you've got your serotonin your endorphins your dopamine the natural chemicals can you enjoy them see if you mean you're bang on the gear and you're training like you're under eating can you do you still get a natural higher you just feel tired constantly you get a natural high from the exercise and you can always do that yeah unless you you know some reason you can't exercise because you're injured or something you can always get that chemical high and I think a lot of people it may become even more when you had this lockdown bullshit and the gyms were closed and people couldn't go to the gym I mean the depression started kicking in because a lot of us are going to the gym to get that you know raise the body the chemicals and avoid that falling into that depression and when it's not there anymore people are falling into depression so but you can still exercise but you haven't got the high of this competition that in itself is a high that you're pushing yourself and you've got this single goal it's like you're looking down a tunnel that's something and that's not there anymore that your life mission is now over so what do you do now that's the question and some of us have a hard time answering that but it's very common as you know and I know it's what if people go to a drug what do they go to when they're at sports people very often they go to cocaine because maybe it's somehow mimicking that high that you get from this life mission you're on I'm not quite sure but it seems to be quite common and I had my little go through that and different things as well we're always searching no matter what it is naturally chemically we're just always wanting more because we never feel truly satisfied we never feel truly fulfilled and that's a sad place to be because that's not the way we should be fucking living I think the whole world's going backwards where everybody that's why drug abuse, alcohol abuse mental health was on the rise because there's no blueprint on manual how we should be living life we haven't got a fucking clue that is it to be standing on stage in one in tournaments is it to be interviewing people is it to be an offer or is it to be a footballer because there's still something missing we're always still craving more and there's a hole inside and constantly I mean I'm 60 next year I feel like I feel quite comfortable with myself I feel like I'm kind of getting to that place I feel so but it's taken a long time you know I mean what is time anyway I mean and we're all here I believe we're all here we're all spirits so you say some people are spirits or some not no we're all spirits whether you're aware of it that's the different case but we're all spirits coming here and having an experience in a physical form that's what I believe and we're here to learn lessons and normally the lessons you learn is in the hard times when everything's all good and all balanced and everything you don't really learn so much because you're not getting challenged it's the challenges in life that they make you grow but it's fucking uncomfortable while it's happening and you don't want it to happen you don't want to be there but later you can look back and say you know I'll go through that and I'll learn some things and I'm now a stronger and better person for that so maybe I should be grateful for those experiences even though they weren't pleasant at the time yeah but you're uncomfortable in the test in life is where your growth is that's where you'll learn from that you don't learn being a winner all the time you don't learn if you're positive and happy all the time that doesn't exist anyway it's not a tweet no that exists on instagram yeah fake life do you know what I mean we can all post for a good life but we don't impose the other well I try to share with people some of the challenges and things I've been through and uh that helps them because they're looking up to me for whatever reason and just say oh even this guy I look up to even his like being there in the depths and has managed to climb out and I might fall in there again I don't know you know but the thing is you will get through it you will get through it you know but it's not fun at the time but when you get through it then you'll be stronger it's like a workout you know it's a stress right but your body gets stronger from that and uh if you look we're talking earlier about Wim Hof it's like the ice it's a stress the cold is a stress training is a stress going in the sauna it's a heat stress but all those things are beneficial for your physical body and it's kind of the same for your mind I think you have to go through stuff to to learn and to make it stronger otherwise you'd just be complacent and comfortable yeah what's the lowest points when you're in competition you get into competition what's the lowest points you get to is it a week before a month before or what's the the one when you have to write a law and you write you need to set yourself okay I need to push through because of what you're trying to achieve I never really lacked motivation but I think getting ready for a contest the hardest part for me was kind of in the middle as I'm talking about conscious preparation where you're reducing your body fat and reducing your calories you're doing more cardio and everything like that I mean off season training big and strong love it no problem all day long I'll do that but ready for a competition at first it's fairly easy because of you know it's a new phase right I'm getting ready for a competition now so you know I'm looking forward to it and your body what starts you start losing water start losing fat start looking better in the mirror it's great it's great I found the middle period when it was about seven six weeks out so it's not at the start you're not near to the con is in the middle it's probably the hardest part because the last two or three weeks you're on the home run you can see it there's the the contest is here it's around the corner and we're nearly ready now we're going to get there so in the middle was really the hardest and for me the diet is hard man because you know all the signals all your body is telling you that you should be eating you've got to override that or constantly override it until I mean I used to dream about food all the time because my brain's asking for it and it's like you're in a fight with yourself nope you can't have that because the goal the goal is greater than your discomfort so you're going to fucking push through it mate you know you signed up for this so just keep going that's the worst one you ever do and I think you had that dream about sausages yeah I woke up in panic I was sweating I don't even have any fucking sausages in the house I couldn't even you know in the dream it happened because I think your body is probably craving for fats sausage full of fat we used to believe in those days that fat was bad and you have to have a really low fat now I know more more information new information about nutrition now and fats are not bad at all in fact carbohydrates are more damaging than fats are so we've been sold a whole lot of bullshit you know from 30-40 years ago when they told everybody fat's causing heart disease and fat is bad for you and really it's not it's sugar see when you to win six did you feel pressure every year did it get more every year or did it get easier because you know exactly what you are doing now everywhere was different you know the first one was the first one and that's like breaking through to you I had a little bit of struggle I got second to Lee Haney so my whole career I'm like on this fucking street from Birmingham and you're not going to be able to keep me down and I'm going to come and I'm the underdog and I've got that drive and I've got that hunger because I'm the underdog then I got second to Lee Haney I want to beat him and I'm the underdog and I'm going to beat this guy from America and and then when I won now I'm the guy right I can't be the underdog anymore and getting ready for that the first one just before I won it I was really struggling so I'm actually the favorite for this so I'm not the underdog anymore and I had a real mental struggle like so you're probably going to win this so I'm really going to be Mr. Olympian the whole dream of everybody that I'm going to achieve that me little me I was like why fucking not you somebody's got to do it let's be honest is anybody working harder than you is anybody more dedicated to this sport or this thing what are you doing it's not can't be so then if I can deserve it mate go on you can do it so I had this conversation so that was the first one that I won the second one was like I've smashed everything now I've smashed every record and the third one I go even further but I got injured on the third one six weeks out so then there's a totally different challenge I taught my bicep and for a day or two I was like so I've won the Mr. Olympia that I wanted to win not only that I've set a new standard in this sport and now my career is over it's over mate you've taught your bicep it's over you can't wrestling with it and then I started getting on top of it and saying okay so if you're going to say it's over now it's over right but why if you keep training if you're training it's compromise a little bit it's compromise but keep doing whatever you can do keep on your diet if you come off your diet now and blow it it's over right so easy to say fuck it I've got injured and let's have a beer and let's have pizza and fuck I'm depressed and I didn't I was tempted but I didn't no no no don't give up now do whatever you can do right up to the contest and if it's not good enough you can always drop out a week before but if you drop out now it's finished right so I did that I did that and got through to the contest and won it but it wasn't ideal and I wasn't in my best shape so the next year is like I fucking need to redeem myself because I was injured last year and wasn't my best shape so this year I needed to bring it and certain people were saying negative things like okay give me that I'll show you I always worked on that fuel like I'll fucking show you it's the whole world you know since I was a kid I had this attitude I'll show you tell me I can't do something it's like guaranteed I'm gonna go do it you know so 95 was the third one and that was debatable people debate whether that's my best shape or 93 so that was 95 96 was a different challenge the whole contest was drug tested for diuretics not for steroids but for diuretics what's that diuretics are drugs that make you lose water you know they're made for medical reasons people retain in water or whatever insulin insulin regulates your blood sugar it's a storage hormone diuretics is it just flushes water out of your body and that was banned it was banned because people were abusing them and there was a few deaths I mean if you lose too much water and you lose too many electrolytes which regulates your heartbeat you can have a heart attack so a few people had died getting ready for a contest using diuretics as a quick weight loss thing I'll never really use it that much but last couple of days before our contest I'd use something mild just to make sure I wasn't holding any excess water so 96 they you know they said we're gonna test for this because it's getting dangerous for people so we want to make sure people are not using diuretics so because I knew the guys relied on diuretics a lot of them I didn't so they probably wouldn't be in great shape so I want it to be like super shredded so I came down a little bit too light for that one so every year was different and the last year was a nightmare because I tore my tricep tendon three weeks before the contest and I wasn't able to train at all and I had the same conversation again but because I'd experienced it the conversation before like mate you've been here before yeah but wasn't so bad last time because it was six weeks out and it was a muscle tear and this is a tendon detachment you can't even train how can it compete in Mr. Olympia well I've been training all year around I've been on my diet so if I can't train for three weeks how much difference is it going to make I don't know let's find out um and 97 is controversial that some people think I shouldn't have won I think I should have but it was the closest one and I was not in the best shape and I was not mentally in the right place because of the injury and I still had information I still had pain all this stuff so it was not my usual powerful confident self going into the competition see how extreme it can be when people are dying how does that affect you going into competition did you ever question it like fuck me like what I'm doing here is basically life or death especially with the the food intake and the exercise and the steroids like are we usually so focused on like I don't care if I just want to show the world that I'm the best it's ever been well first of all I think I was a bit more knowledgeable maybe a bit more cautious than some people so I was not um really a user of strong diuretics obviously using steroids growth hormone all that stuff and I always accepted that that could have some negative health consequences and I um I compare it to smoking we all know smoking is not good for you but if you smoke for five years and you give it up or you smoke for ten years and give it up you might be okay you smoke for twenty thirty years we all know what's going to happen right so I was always telling myself I'm using steroids and growth hormone etc because it's a tool of my trade and for me to compete on an even field I've got to use it so decide yes or no and I decided yes at the start we're knowing all this and I'm only going to do it for a period of time this is not going to be I'm not going to be doing this for too long so I was aware of my mental risk although I was never going to put myself in a position where I could have a heart attack or something like that by using diuretics although I did have a problem back in 86 when I didn't know I was doing I took a diuretic and I started cramping really severely so that could have been more serious than it was and that was just out of pure ignorance but as far as like the attitude of people that are in professional bodybuilding and this would go I would say this would go across any sport because there's a guy called Goldman Dr. Goldman he did a survey on athletes by the builders of different athletes if you could if I give you a pill now that would guarantee you a gold medal in the Olympics or equivalent in your sport guarantees you that but you'll die at 45 would you take it I think it was like 70% said yes I would fucking hell so that's the attitude mate the fucking highly competitive individuals otherwise they wouldn't get there in the first place a young age just to get that gold because when you're young and you're doing this thing you're not really thinking about when you're feeling destructible as well when you're 25-30 years old I think I had a conversation with my girlfriend when I first started I said I'm doing a competition I'll take some of this steroids people didn't know too much about it then but she's like I've heard them a bad fear I said I don't think so she can't be that bad, look at all the guys they're okay, she's watching everybody they're alright and she said yeah but what about when you get older what if you're 45-50 years old and you die I'm like fuck about 45 I'm doing what I'm doing now and I would rather and I would rather die at 45-50 years old having my name in the record books and having to really achieve something with my life than to live a life like all these people around me I live to a fucking hundred but I don't achieve anything I'll take option one but fortunately it don't happen here I am still I'm okay and I'm really in a different phase of life it's just about my health and really looking after my health that's my mission now not to have big muscles I couldn't care less now it's not what I need and in order to think like that you have to give up the ego as well because if you're a bodybuilder and everyone treats you in a certain way because you're this big guy a lot of guys don't want to give that up it's their identity and they feel that they will be treated differently people view them differently if they're not that guy anymore but carrying a lot of body weight whether it be muscles or otherwise it's not really good for you as you're getting older your body changes it can't handle the stress and just carrying around like 18, 19, 20 stone in your 50s or in your 60s it's not good for you the body seems to adapt to anything you put in it it always wants more so see if you abuse steroids more and more and more would you get bigger and bigger there's a certain point when you put a water in a glass you can get to the top after that it's just spilling out so the same thing with steroids you might get better results taking more to a certain point and at that point it's not you're not going to get anything more out of it but you're going to get more negatives the longer you take it the more possibility how is it when you see Ronnie Coleman and you watch his documentaries at Netflix and you watch it and you kind of think fuck me, you kind of feel sad as well like obviously he lived the life that he wanted he got the results that he wanted but I look at Ronnie and I think it must be tough to be to be like that especially to be so active but credit to Ronnie is handling it well he's laughing and he's smiling and he seems to be okay and maybe it's the same thing as I was just saying Ronnie Coleman is eight times Mr. Olympia he did an amazing thing with his life and people won't forget that you know his name will go on forever so maybe you figure that's a price that was worth paying you know I've been stubborn myself in the training just push push push because that's that's the nature of a champion but it can become self destructive at some point and you've got to know when to change lanes which is difficult for people especially if they have an image of themselves I'm Mr. Olympia I'm this guy who you are I can be evolving all the time depends on who you think you are that's who you are, who you think you are and I realised about five or six years ago I was still doing the bodybuilding lifestyle not the steroids the lifestyle, the training, the diet and everything like that was about 18 and a half stone and went for a check up and my blood pressure was getting a bit high and I said like just I need to change, I changed my diet I started doing yoga and cycling and fitness training and I purposely lost muscle but I didn't care anymore because I'm like I don't need it, I don't need that it's not serving me anymore I need to be able to be mobile and fit and I don't want to be in pain and I don't want to be you know, disabled this is the only vehicle I've got to experience life in and if it's not working properly the quality of life in the experience is not so good so I enjoy hiking up mountains now, riding bike doing different things like that I do a little bit of lightweight training do a little bit of cardio a little bit of yoga, a little bit of everything and I want my body to be functioning optimally I still have some injuries I have quite bad shoulder injuries I'm not feeling any pain from day to day but it limits me, I can't do any kind of heavy lifting anyway but I just accept it and I can do other things I can stand on one foot now and do yoga couldn't do that 20 years ago so there's always something you can do but you have to know when something that you were doing in the past is not really the best thing for you now and you have to be able to evolve and change and hopefully that's what I'm doing the feedback I'm getting now is I'm inspiring other people I'm getting other bodybuilders saying I'm 40 now, I'm 45 you've inspired me in bodybuilding but now you've inspired me in what you're doing after bodybuilding that you're able to change and your health is good and everything like that compared to a lot of other people they're not doing so well that's the main thing, your health is your wealth but for you to get that injury then change lanes like everything does happen for a reason a lot of people don't adjust to try and stick to the old habits even though they know it's killing them because they think it's all they know it's comfortable to do what you know and you've always done it it's comfortable but it might not be the best thing for you I'm not saying change is easy it's often not easy to give up stuff when I started thinking about it I was like people expect me to be big and you know Mr Olympia I was like screw what people expect screw what people think and who knows what people are thinking anyway you know you don't know what people are thinking and even if you did it's irrelevant what other people are thinking it's your life you've got to live your life yourself not for anyone else not for your parents not for your wife not for your fans if you've got any or whatever it's you it's your life and you've got to decide what you want to do with that life and try to cut out that outside influence and it's very difficult these days especially with the social media and so much pressure come in and a lot of it's bullshit anyway people posting their perfect lives and I don't think anyone has a perfect life so if you're open and honest and talk to each other about our challenges we help each other and we all advance so that's what I try and do how long do you think you'd have done bodybuilding for if you never got that injury well 97 when I got the injury to be honest was the first time when I was really questioning what I'm doing why because I did it such an extreme I started to think there must be more to life than this you were thinking that this is starting to feel like a job not a passion of course it was a job because I'm earning my living doing it but it didn't feel like a job the last one it started to feel like a job and this is Groundhog Day it's just doing the same thing over and over again you're going to start thinking about what you want to do with your life outside of this so the thoughts were already there before the injury but it came along so I don't know everyone was always like are you going to try to match your beat Lee Haney's 8 Mr Olympia I honestly never thought about it I'm just going to take one year at a time as long as I'm enjoying it and I feel that I could possibly make some improvements then I'll keep doing it and that last year some of the joy was going out of it so I don't think I would have done it much longer anyway and a planner I want to be able to control and plan my exit and my retirement but that was taken out my hands anyway that was very difficult for me what was a day like in your life that food wise exercise steroids what was the full day planned out depends on if it was off season or contest contest is more things to do is like really is all day so I'll give you a contest which would be maybe three months out of the contest prep so I would do in the morning I might have some water and a coffee do 45 minutes cardio but not moderate cardio so it was usually stationary cycling in the morning then I'd have breakfast and you know some steroids you take daily like the oral tablets you take daily some injections weekly or biweekly or something like that but that's obviously part of it breakfast contest I was eating a lot egg whites at that point as I said the general feeling was fat is bad but now I've learnt that it's not so if I'd done it now I'd probably put more egg yolks in as well but it's primarily egg whites like maybe 12 egg whites a few egg yolks a few tons of porridge oats then I'd do maybe do a little bit of work have a shake before I went to the gym sit down in my office get out my training logs see what I did last week and then I would visualise what I'm doing today the order of the exercises the weights I'm going to use what rep range I'm going to aim for I'd see what clothes I'm wearing what music is playing all this stuff I would visualise so I'm almost in a trance and then I would drive to the gym my training partner would be waiting for me and I would be like alright no conversation he knows what we're going to do I know what we're going to do and we get to work total focus on the workout that we had to do which was relaxed but very very intense then I might hang around for a bit at the gym I would change into a different person once that workout was over you couldn't talk to me while I'm training I wouldn't even acknowledge anybody the gym would be empty most of the anyway but if people came down there would be I would just look at the floor I wouldn't catch anyone's eye so no one would disturb me afterwards I would chat with the guys a bit have lunch then I would sleep in afternoon a couple of hours then I would eat again then I would do some posing practice and do some more cardio eat again evenings I would do some phone calls and as we didn't have emails so it was just mail and watch a movie every day it was Blockbuster's best customer they told me said you rented more movies from us than anybody else because I watch one or two every day so every movie I know for the last 20 or 30 years I know all the movies what's the best one you've ever watched? someone's asked me that before and I said I can't I've watched every single movie so I can't pull out a single one I've watched everything is that just to keep you occupied and stay by yourself? to relax and take my mind off everything you get into the movie I like reading as well read quite a bit I read probably more now than I used to then but I love reading because that's how I learned about bodybuilding that's how I learned about everything reading it's a good thing when I was a kid I started reading young and I just loved to read I couldn't even get a newspaper with nothing particularly interesting there and read it it just sends me into a relaxed state so I loved reading and now I read to learn I'm always trying to learn more about spirituality learn more about the human body and the potential of the body and the mind and it's amazing there's new information coming out all the time if you keep it on top of this curve human potential is like we've done nothing it just scratch the surface I think the human potential is amazing I think it's been hidden from us I think it's been almost like indoctrinated and trained out of us and everything is just trying to dumb us down all the time so you've got to get out there and educate yourself and that's the most important thing the more you learn the more you learn as well that's why question everything think everything is a lie I told my kids I've got a boy he's 37 now Lewis Tarnish is 20 and I told them both from the start I questioned everything I told them you'll learn some mathematics you'll learn how to read and write but beyond that it's indoctrination sit down stand up sit there for seven or eight hours isn't it strange that the school hours are pretty much the same as the work hours that they're programming you for so just give you enough information so you can be a useful cog in the system a useful worker nothing more than that they're not going to show anything more than that even if I tell you something I could be wrong question me it's not a problem question everything go look for yourself and find that's what people got to do research man find out for yourself it's all out there see can you'll find if you want to find something you're looking and eventually you'll find it but it takes that willingness to question and to want to know I think a lot of people just they're almost hypnotized give up your question thanks people yeah because everyone's hypnotized and we're we're our own sheep dogs almost you know you got the herd you got the herd of sheep if one's sheep steps out all the other ones start going look at you you're not dressed right you're not doing the right thing you're not saying the right thing get in get in get in because they start feeling uncomfortable why is this guy not walking in the circle that we've been told to walk in what's wrong with him and it makes them feel uncomfortable that you're being different but everybody that was anything has always been called crazy you know anybody that was ahead of the time was always called crazy and later on that guy was an innovator but at the time when he said it it was called crazy if you're questioning the norm or what's generally accepted you're crazy so I'm a crazy fucker man is that when the journey started after you got your engine decided you weren't going to do bouldering anymore is that when you had a depression yeah and I had a death of somebody that was close to me as well that I couldn't figure out it was very young my nephew it was 15 or 16 and he died in my house and there was never a cause he just died in his sleep and it just just just done my head and I couldn't everything in my life was logic and put it in a box and I could understand it and I could work it out as mathematics this was so this sent me on a whole journey of questioning everything and reading and you know going down a very deep rabbit hole yeah is that when you decided okay there's more to life not just standing on a stage I found out a lot of stuff and it was almost so heavy and so overwhelming after a while I hid away from it and I just wanted to party and date more girls and just forget about it yeah for a while so I went into this hole I'm just going to have a good time I lived like a monk for 12 years didn't do anything I found all this stuff but what can I do about it anyway so I went down the party route for a bit until that became this is not doing you any good this is now damaging you so you know I was extreme over here as a bodybuilder I went over this way extreme the other way I'm just going to have a good time and party and about all this time I'm still training I'm still loving to exercise but it was a weekend I'm doing some coke I'm drinking and partying I've been different girlfriends all this is distraction and then I grew out of that and carried back on the journey that I've kind of started then but it was a bit too much for me at the start was that to block out the pain that you didn't want to face maybe or maybe it's just as I say it's just a reaction to the extremity of this where I never had a drink I never went out I didn't socialize to like hey parties are fun and I missed out on all this and there's all these girls and it's fun and so I swung that way for a while until eventually I've swung back into the middle and got some kind of balance and I had to experience that otherwise I wouldn't be the full person I am now I wouldn't be able to relate to a lot of things I had to I had to live I had to live a life my life was from a house to the gym and back and from a house to the gym and back and to the contest and to some appearances and it's bodybuilding I had to have more life experience and some ups and some downs and I've definitely been there I've been through all that but it makes you it made me who I am now so none of it I have regrets for none of it that's why people can relate to you as well when you go to the brinks of hell when you fuck up, when you make mistakes it's not perfect because every man thinks they look good every man thinks they can fight probably bodybuilders and boxers probably get the most shit than anybody because people can't do those things and then there becomes a lot of envy and hate see when you started letting the barriers come down did you see it feel like a lot of other losers and wasters come into your circle as well people with no ambitions because it felt normal when you're going down that slope a little bit yeah a little bit again to that party scene you know and I think it was some Noel Gallagher once he said drugs, it's like having a cup of tea it is if you hang around with people that do that because everyone's doing it so it becomes the norm you know but when you're doing that you're not your energy is not focused so slowly some things started to fall apart around you you know because you're not taking care you're not focusing you're going out partying and then you got hangover or you're in your bed for a day or two days and you just everything in life is what you focus on so if you focus on sex and drugs and parties you'll get a lot of them but the other things start falling apart because you're not taking care you're not focusing on them so I learnt that and I learnt it's also another thing that's not going to be good for your health and my health came my priority at some point you know you take it for granted when you're younger when you're getting older you probably become more aware of it so what I do now is I want to optimize my health and my spirituality my understanding of what's going on and I have balance so I think I'm getting there you know you never arrive at that destination as I was on going you're always learning and I'm sure I'll make more mistakes and learn more things because normally you learn when you make mistakes what is spirituality to you Dorian? pretty much what I was describing earlier on you know it's not about having all the answers it's about an awareness that we're much more than this and there is much more than this there's you know this table this room it's not even real really it's just a program that we're perceiving it's all made of atoms so how can it be solid it's a perception it's like a program we're in and there's much more outside of this and that I was realized and saw and felt and knew when I did psychedelics because it just takes you to a different place where was the first time you done psychedelics what was it DMT at ayahuasca first it was actually ayahuasca but the first thing I ever did was it was ayahuasca really but I did it in totally the wrong circumstances and probably very dangerous circumstances but I didn't know at the time because I was ignorant so I went to Brazil and I met a girl who is now my wife we met her in Brazil and we planned a trip together to go to the amazon so we went out to the amazon and I met a guy some guides out there that were going to take us on a boat and we're going to go down the amazon river and for a few days and sleep on the boat or sleep on the beach at the side of the river and all this stuff so I was already you know a cannabis smoker so I wouldn't maybe it's slightly psychedelic but not really so I was already into that I already spent some time living in Amsterdam spending time wandering around and reading books and so I'd read about DMT and ayahuasca so I had some understanding about it 10, 11 years ago so probably wasn't so mainstream as it is now and I said to the guy I said can you get me some ayahuasca stuff I don't know much about it but it's supposed to go on this journey and see visions and get information and all that I'd like to have a go at that and he said yeah of course give me the money and I'll get it so I don't know really if it was ayahuasca but it probably was he got me two bottles full and so no preparation nothing headline and ayahuasca camp in Costa Rica I've done three of them now and there's real preparation there's no alcohol no weed nothing like that for two weeks minimum before no sex no meat, no dairy there's a lot of preparation that goes into preparing yourself physically and mentally for this ceremony which is conducted by shamans in a very strict way so no shaman, no instructions, no nothing and the night before I was drinking vodka and doing lines of coke and I'm gonna go and do ayahuasca in the jungle right so one of the guys who was a native blood you know so he's telling me after ayahuasca and he's telling me a bit about it and he said you know he's probably gonna throw up you might shit yourself you know it's not gonna be pretty but you'll learn something so okay so he said smoking weed yesterday right I said yeah so don't smoke any today you can't mix the weed with ayahuasca that's so don't smoke today okay thanks for that so we're chugging along down the river and he's gone to me okay gone into the little cabin captain's in there with his wheel three big lines of coke on the side and he's going once for you they've done one and the other ones for you like yeah but I'm doing the ayahuasca tonight no no no it's alright you can have this you can't smoke weed though so okay fed the line of coke few hours later I'm doing ayahuasca could have killed myself or something it's like but I was not knowing what I was doing it's not with the right people so I had ayahuasca I was violently ill didn't get no I'm like I'm asking in my head like where's the visions why I'm not flying like an eagle through the jungle and all this stuff and never stop poisoning yourself what? stop poisoning yourself but now but where's the stop poisoning yourself that's all I heard in my head and I didn't get it at the time I thought I was I don't know I didn't get it and everyone was asking me how was ayahuasca ah shit no I didn't just got really sick mate it's no good that stuff later on I did DMT and I smoked DMT and out of this world just left the place and saw the connection of everything everything's all connected everything is all one thing it's all one thing it's nothing separate it's all one thing it's all connected and there's numbers that make shapes that makes reality and I fucking know and everything so I'm telling everybody I'm asking DMT that's the one um because I did it in a totally toxic state and later on I realized you know what I did get a message from the ayahuasca stop poisoning yourself that's the only message that I needed to get at that point and then my next experience was I was in Spain I was involved in a gym business over there it's a long story but it was really stressful and I was slipping into anxiety and depression I wasn't sleeping I was in a bad place and I was doing yoga and my yoga teacher said hey um I'm going to a ceremony a couple of weeks at ayahuasca like maybe it can help you know like you want to come along I don't think so because I did it before and it was horrible and I did DMT it's much better you don't get sick or anything so nah I don't know I'll let you know but I don't think I'm going to come then a friend of mine messaged me a girl actually who came to me at some point for some help and I helped her but we became friends and she was a very sensitive sensitive girl and she said I got a message for you I don't know what it is but I had a vision and I needed to tell you about it so I called her so what's going on she said well I was painting I said I was painting for hours I was just lost in this painting and I went into a trance and I had a vision and it concerns you so I got to tell you about it I don't know if it will mean anything to you but I'll tell you about it she said I was in a jungle there was this three little native guys squatted down with a big bowl of liquid in front of them and they're stirring it with a piece of wood and they're looking at me and they're just chanting your name Dory and Dory and Dory she said does it mean anything I was like holy shit does it mean anything that's ayahuasca I was going to invite to a ceremony next week you got to go then haven't you got to go and I went and I had prepared properly this time and everything and I went and it was just amazing profound experience I took the medicine I spoke with a shaman before I told him what my problems were he said yeah you know you're just overstressed and your heart and your nervous system is under stress and I'm going to help you with that so during the ceremony I'll come around and I'll do some stuff with you and we'll fix this I said alright I took the ayahuasca I felt the effects coming on I saw a green collar in front of me and I got a female voice in my head saying hello do you remember me and I said yeah I remember you so are you afraid I said not afraid no she said no I'm going to come then is that right very gentle and I said yeah that's great she's not going to throw up this time either she came and just I saw everything that was going on in my life from a totally different perspective I saw it from everyone else's perspective even my people that I thought were assholes and they were you know they were fucking me up but they were but not from their perspective I just saw everything from a different angle and the next day the next day I was a totally different person I even looked different people were saying to me you had Botox or something it's just like all the stress had gone you know it's like glowing I'm like what do you look great so I've only had two hours sleep and just went to ayahuasca what's happened just all that negativity was taken out of me so then that was the start of my real relationship with ayahuasca which is it's a plant medicine but it's got an amazing intelligence it's beyond our understanding and I believe it even uses a tool to put these camps on in Costa Rica to bring out all the people that came out there because it changed all their lives and they're now changing other lives it's like a domino effect so you know the plants live on this planet as well as we do so they don't want us to fuck up the planet because they live here as well so they're trying to talk to us and ayahuasca is a master teacher plant so it's a form of intelligence and I had three camps, 20 people and we formed whatsapp groups for all the people and to this day they're all in touch like yesterday I was watching I don't go on there all the time but I'm watching them communicating they're doing zoom calls they're sharing all their experiences their lives have just changed and they're helping other people one person's open a flotation business and it's all around spirituality and all their lives have changed tremendously for the better so somehow I was used as a tool to do that to attract those people because they looked up to me because they're from the gym world yes, powerful plants I believe all the plants here there's cures for everything through the plants it's here I went to Costa Rica and Ayahuasca and I was in hell my life is still going amazing but I still had to work on myself coming back I still had to work and go to the rooted problems and there's still a lot of shit I've not dealt with that I'm going to deal with over the next year or two it's just stupid where I identify where my mistakes are and still things that I need to change I will not shy away from them I'm a human being I still fucking make mistakes but I was in hell and there's also obviously we know during the ceremonies I was flames, fires, people dancing I'm thinking fuck me like how can you be enjoying this I was in straight hell man you get what you need man yeah I was in fucking hell I've lost a lot of family members and friends to murder suicide and I think that shit was kind of connected in the mind and we store it all in the sub-conscience it's mad but probably go back and do it again part of me still feels I want to do it for the right reasons and not the escape a lot of people it's not an escape it's not an escape if you think you're going there to escape mate you're going to be a root awakening because you're there you're going to be shown stuff and it might not be pleasant at the time it might be all fun and games but you never know what's going to happen and it might not be pleasant if it's not pleasant it's not pleasant for a reason it's a message there trying to show you something every time it's different and every time you learn something sometimes more dramatic than other times one time was really really intense I threw up I threw up I threw up I couldn't throw up anymore and I actually lost all physical power I couldn't move and I had to ask for help and this female was like almost like laughing at me like what are you going to do now big guy you know you've created this armor this physicality this you know the muscles the masculinity all this is an armor but I'm just going to take your armor away because then you have to look at what's underneath and underneath is a little boy that lost his dad and he was scared and all that stuff so that was a revelation like physically I couldn't move people had to pick me up and carry me because I couldn't move and I had to ask I heard myself asking for help and I thought what the fuck are you doing man I've never really done that before I've never wanted to ask for help I want it to be independent and strong and we all have to ask for help sometimes and that's what it was showing me like it's okay it's okay to be what you perceive as being weak sometimes and ask for help because no one's an island and you need help sometimes or very well trying to help everybody all the time but you also need some help sometimes so every time you go is a different experience and a different message I think it's what you need at the time do you think that plays a part building yourself up to be the biggest man on the planet to then do you think that has a connection by losing your dad when you say it's a shield like the muscles and the man and do you think that is just a shield to protect yourself because you are feeling vulnerable there's an aspect of it there it was also it was also my sport it was also my career my living so it goes beyond that but there's an aspect of it there and I think there's some aspect of that in everybody that starts training it wasn't really for me a lot of people start training because they feel like maybe they're getting picked on and stuff like that and it's a protective mechanism but that wasn't really happening to me but deep down here that kid was there that was wounded and probably wanted to protect himself but if it was just that I wouldn't have gone down the whole rate of competing so there's definitely an aspect of that there and that's why it's hard for people to a lot of guys that are using steroids for me they're addicted not addicted physically like a heroine or maybe cocaine or something like that but they're addicted to the image the outcome so a lot of guys will take steroids for the rest of their life because they don't want to lose any weight or get any smaller because they think they're losing that everyone's going to treat them differently now you're not the big guy people will treat you differently but fortunately I didn't have too much of that so it wasn't so difficult for me mine was more like oh what my fans are going to think maybe that you're not the image that they expect anymore do you feel that when you're £240, £250 and then you stop taking what you're taking and then maybe the strength goes down do you feel that I don't really feel that but it was a question in my mind that I had to answer to myself well do you live your life for other people or do you live your life for you and live your life that you want to live for you now I'm going to live the life that I want to live and people can think what they think that takes a bit of a bit of strength of characters to do that well the conversation was there the internal conversation was definitely there but in the end I was like you know what I want to be free and if you're concerned about other people's opinions you're never free you're not a free man because you're not living your life you're living your life better not do this because your mum won't like it or better not do that because you know people will think bad of me or whatever it is you're not free then are you you're a prisoner of other people's or what you perceive other people to think because you don't know what they're thinking anyway did you ever get some closure or come face to face with the deaths that you lost from your father and your nephew yeah one ceremony came out really with my nephew that I thought I'd already dealt with it you know of course it's traumatic and I've dealt with it but there was still some stuff deep down there and it came out with me screaming and banging the floor and crying and it's coming out so that had to come out I didn't even know it was there it unlocks some you know some we hide things we're not consciously hiding it but subconscious because the brain doesn't want to look at trauma all the time it's stressful so it gets it and puts it in a box in the back and locks it away but it's still there your subconscious is affecting you probably more than your conscious so if you've got shit back there that's locked away in a box and you don't even know about it but it's still controlling it's still affecting you you need to be able to go in there and open that box up and get it out so that's what I was going to really help me with that seeing you are taking gear and drinking and kind of going down the slippery slope did you ever look at yourself in the mirror and think fuck me I'm feeling here especially being a winner your whole life and being the best you can be everybody looking up to you and then you see the other side the dark side of it did you ever look at yourself in the mirror towards the end as well and towards the end it was like hey you're not really having fun anymore there's not fun anymore you know it's all fun at first but at some point it changes and it's not really fun anymore and you see people around you their lives are going to shit and okay this chapter is coming to a close close the page on this chapter so yeah I realized it but it was never like I was a you know a non-functional or something like that I was still doing my thing I was still going to gym and training but if there was a weekend and there was a party then it's a party you know it's on and I've been all around the world like New York, Vegas LA Australia everywhere I've been parties all around the world and every nightclub bouncer knows me so I was getting getting the VIP services as well How are you, Joe Rogan? Joe was cool and I already know because I followed Joe Rogan on this page so I knew we had a lot in common you know he smokes weed, he's been into the psychedelics he's into optimizing his physicality he does martial arts and things like that I'm from a different background but I knew we had a lot in common somebody from my team contacted the producer and that was the conversation so we just set up a time and I went into the studio the producer was there we had a little chat Joe turned up hey how are you and we shook hands and say hello and then boom we went straight into the conversation which went on for three hours and we were both like is that really three hours we were running out of time but it was just flowing a good conversation and I think he's really good at his job he must I don't know how many bloody podcasts he does but it almost seems to be like one a day and he's doing his comedy show and he's doing his training so he's a busy guy and you know yourself every guest you have on you must do your research and everything so I think he did a good job and the conversation was good yeah it was a crack I spent more time with him afterwards actually afterwards we sat down we smoked a joint together we had a chat and stuff we spent some time and yeah I liked him he was a good guy what was the decision to move to Spain that was because I started going to Marbella partying yeah I started going there started going there partying started meeting a lot of people you know all the security guys out there they all know me a lot of people out there knew me so I had a lot of contacts and the weather's amazing there's a lot of successful people out there in you know various fields right a lot of British people there so you can speak English you don't need to speak Spanish necessarily a bit British community there so there's the weather there's the lifestyle I got a place out there so I was then bouncing back and forth between there and Birmingham and then I just decided to base myself there more permanently just a much better lifestyle my wife's Brazilian so she's used to she didn't really appreciate the British weather too much and probably I don't know probably everybody experiences this that's somewhat successful you're never appreciated in your own town and people are generally jealous of you because familiarity breeds contempt so if they see you every day somehow I don't know what it is but I find a lot of people kind of even people that you think you're friends and are close to you secretly they're a little bit jealous of your success if you're surrounded by other people that are very successful like in Marbella I'm just another person out there nothing really you know outstanding don't stick out you don't stand out so it's a better environment as well and if you're surrounded by more more successful people that also can be motivated and inspiring to yourself rather than always the guy that's a bit above everybody else though to speak what do you think life is Dorian from your eyes life is an experience it's almost like a test as well to go through these experiences to go through these challenges in a physical body because we're not physical we're spirits it's like this is a TV set I've got I'm not the TV I'm the signal that comes to the TV and when this TV breaks down the signal still exists right if you've got a radio and it's picking up radio one the batteries run out a radio radio one still exists right it's just not picking up anymore you have to go buy a new radio transit and pick it up again so I think we're our spirit our signal is eternal just going through different challenges and different phases I even think that before we come here we're conscious and we choose our challenges we choose our circumstances to a degree and then we get here we got insomnia and you're just trying to find your way back and we're all part of God the universe the source the spirit whatever you want to call it we're all part of it it's not something separate we've got to find your way to that place like that's what religion teaches you you're just you and God's over there and you've got to find your way back by doing ABC which is basically what we're wanting to do we're already we're already part of it just like if you use a little drop of water in the ocean it's still the ocean as well a cell in your body it's not you is it but it's part of you so it's still you know it's still you but it just thinks it's a cell it only knows it's a cell it doesn't know it's all part of of you of your body so I see it like that and this insights are basically got through doing psychedelics and being shown and feeling and knowing these things very hard to describe psychedelic experiences because you're working with words that just somehow are not enough you know anyone that's done psychedelics will know what I'm talking about but it's not just see it you feel it you know it you're there you're part of everything everything's part of you you're not separate and just having a temporary experience now that's why often people just start pissing themselves off in sometimes because you see it all it's all a game I'm just playing a bloody game like when you're a kid you ever got the Monopoly board out and you're all playing Monopoly it gets a bit fucking serious it gets a bit heated about the Monopoly game it's only a fucking Monopoly game and afterwards when the game's over you put the board back in and put it back in a box it's like that life's just a game I know that but I still fucking take it seriously sometimes and still get down and still get depressed but ultimately it's just a game not to be taken too seriously you're coming here for an experience and then when this experience is over you'll be back where you came from and maybe you're coming back for another experience we've all got different chapters in my life like some good some bad what's the best you've felt what chapter than now I felt like I've lived a lot of different lives like I got friends that I grew up with when we were skinheads in this phase of being skinheads and punks and they tell me do you remember them days that was the best days of our lives I remember and it was good but I got loads of those chapters in my life that you know that are good and some of that are bad I feel more peaceful now than I've ever felt before I feel like I'm understanding things I'm understanding myself and we've all got more balance ultimately everything comes to balance like even sports like sports exercise is healthy right it's good for you but competitive sports are not not just bodybuilding not any competitive sport is not necessarily good for you good for your health because it's an extreme so it all comes back to balance getting kicked in the head in the martial arts not good for you your body is damaging your cells go for a little jog do a bit of weight training it's good for you but at the extreme it's not so anything extreme is not but maybe you have to experience it to get the full realisation coming up to sex day you look great by the way what's the plans for the future well continue down the path continue down the path of learning and bring more light bring more light to the planet I'm playing my role in that we're going through a big transition now almost in simplistic terms if you like it's a bit like Star Wars between the force and the dark and the light right now is a big transition a big wrestling match going on between between that that's why it's the time that the human race is going to wake up more and realise it's potential but there's a dark side here they don't want that to happen so it's trying very hard now to crush our spirit and suppress us and kill a lot of us as well at the same time so it's all going on but I have faith that the ultimate outcome is that all this stress is going to lead to in the end some more light that's what I believe that's why I keep faith in yeah it's scary man to think that the world is upside down but there's a lot of goodness the world has always been upside down if you take everything that you believe or everything that average person believes to be true and turn it right upside down it will be an error to the truth already and I think these are the times it's like the water is going down in the lake and all the things that was at the bottom of the lake that was hidden in the murky water is going to be coming to light and it's not pretty a lot of it and a lot of people are not even ready for it so it's going to happen over a period of time if everybody knew the reality of the world right now it would be chaos so it takes a bit of time for it to all come out but slowly it will come out even all about this false pandemic it's starting to slip out now even into the mainstream the truth it's starting to slip out you can't hide the truth forever it will come out and we're looking forward to that day brother for coming on today and telling your story I thoroughly enjoyed that you're a great man doing great things how can people get involved in your retreats I don't have one scheduled at the moment I did one last year but I had to cancel it because of the situation so Saltara is the camp out in Costa Rica even if I'm not there and you want to do it I would recommend it's a great place great facilities very professional very caring but I may be doing one later in the year at Saltara so you can look out for that of course you can find me on Instagram and my company at DY Nutrition I'm doing various other things I'm doing online coaching now as well DY Academy you can find me at various places as far as the retreat goes maybe later in next year I'll be going out there we'll leave all the links in the description maybe you should come out with me for your second one I've got a lot of people in the pipeline they're all going through that journey just wanting more Saltara is good because they don't have really big groups there's a maximum of 20 people they get a lot of care a lot of help there let's see what we can do but for the future brother I wish you all the luck we'll have you on for a part two no doubt we'll be teaming up next time I'm up in Glasgow thanks a lot