 Good afternoon, everyone. This is your host, Guillermo Salatier, and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii and our Perspectives on Energy. Today, we'll be talking about utility line workers and what their different salary structures look like across the country. So anyway, I am, as I said, Guillermo Salatier, an anti-director of international services for the Health and Safety Institute, HSI.com. And a lot of the work we do involves training utility personnel. So I figured this would be a great opportunity to let everyone know of the trades. And one trade, in particular, skilled labor is utility line workers. Formally, they were called linemen, but now there's definitely a lot of, it's not only men doing the climbing of poles and getting on bucket trucks and doing all this like very, very rewarding, but hard work, right? So we'll talk about some of the trends that we're looking at in the industry, especially given the fact that over the last couple of years, it's there's been a shift in how people and the value of college education. And then there's been like a growing trend of parents and young adults moving towards, back to the crafts and the trades and skilled labor. And one of these, of course, is becoming a line worker. Now mind you, there's a huge amount of demand for plumbers, electricians, carpenters, bricklayers, that sort of thing. And it is this, this is even the additional level of skill and in a lot of cases involves a little bit of physical ability. So of course, it usually involves working outside, working in some inclement weather, operating heavy equipment, having a chauffeur's license. Me in my past, I worked for over 30 years in the utility industry. So for me, I got to work quite a bit with some of these line workers and they're great, great people. I was really hardworking personnel. Most of them are in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, which is their union. A lot of that is organized labor. And a lot of the standards are pretty much universal. In Elms in Florida, there were a lot of lines of workers that had had their linemen or line worker ticket from Cuba, but a couple of companies were coming and hiring them and they would be working for the utilities in South Florida. Usually they didn't even speak the language. They only spoke Spanish, but usually they're form and also one that was bilingual and that would manage a lot of the work. All right, so a lot of these, well actually all these stats came from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. So and you'll see the link at the bottom of every slide. So you can access all this information on there and it's on that page. But here we'll talk about a few things and highlight a few items. And it will probably blow your mind because remember these salaries are all based on a 40 hour work week. You're not even looking at overtime, double overtime. Double overtime and a half. So those numbers can become even higher. Let's go ahead and go to the next slide. Here you go, please. Right, so in this case, right, we're looking at the national estimates where as you go power and installers and repairs, right? You kind of see how many there are in the country. So right now at the time of posting, this is like last year, we're looking at 119,000 and then there's usually a mean hourly wage at 39, well just under 40 bucks an hour. But you're also looking at what they make in a year is $82,000, right? So in a lot of cases, right, you're looking at this math here and doesn't always account for, it's not accounting for overtime, right? So that's an important thing to understand because a lot of these like they're bargaining you, they're organized labor. A lot of these positions, the moment you go beyond that eight hours a day, it's not even 40 hour a week, the moment you go beyond that eight hour a day, you're starting to earn time and a half. So that $40 an hour becomes now $60 a day. So it's a really, really interesting situation when it comes to this organized labor. And this isn't something that you can outsource. This isn't something you can send then offshore. I mean, these are people that have to be here and do the work. And given the fact that we are expanding our distribution we're expanding our transmission systems, you know, for a fact this is something that it's not only going to maintain itself but it's going to the demand for it will grow. Not to mention the fact that there's quite a lot of them retiring right now. So this is going to be quite a bit fascinating to see what's happening. I see on the second table on the same slide, you're looking at the percentages, right? So 50% of them for the most part make about $39. I mean, $39 an hour, but you have the top 10% makes about $55 an hour. Of course, those are usually in areas where the cost of living is really high, California. But that being said, remember, there's a lot of states where they're making this much money but not every part of California is as expensive to live in. So that's an important thing to point out, right? So if you're making that much money per hour in that state but you manage to live in an area with more or less remote, your cost of living is low, now you have the ability to really accumulate some wealth especially with some of these 401k and pension plans that they have, right? And imagine somebody at $55 an hour is now working overtime, which is very common given the amount of shortages that we have out there in labor. Well, you know, for a fact that, you know, they're going to easily break that number within the first six months of the year. So next slide, please. Okay, so here we have the distribution, right? Of course, this is industry profile for electrical power installers and repairs, right? Basically line workers. We're looking at different parts of the industry, right? So you got utility system construction versus utility power generation transmission distribution. There's overall those very integrated utilities. And then of course, interestingly enough, the natural gas distribution, there's usually a portion of that industry that has utility type of infrastructure associated with it, right? As you can see, anything with natural gas out there, especially when a lot of that is fed electrically, right? Usually that's on the natural gas part of the property. A lot of that work is so specialized that they actually pay them quite a bit more than the utility person or even though they're doing the same work, it's just a different part of the fence, so to speak. As you can see here, they're making $57 an hour, the very last row. And so for the annual mean wage of $118,000. Now, if you can imagine this, imagine somebody who's 21, 22 years old, maybe 23 years old making that kind of money, base payment. That's 40 hour work week. That's quite significant, right? In that case. So this is something to keep in mind, right? Now, utility system construction, right? We're meaning that you're not doing the trouble calls, you're not doing the storm restoration, you're just doing new construction, nice, new, clean, and you're traveling around. Well, those have to be the least paid, right? So for them, it's $34 an hour. In a lot of cases, those are probably contract work that are even in the union, but a lot of them have. There are many right to work states where they don't have to do that kind of like, join a union, but most of them do. So that shows you the spread in this case, right? Okay, next slide, please. Now, highest concentration of employment, right? So if you're gonna see the ones that have the most of portion of the utilities, that's at 15%. You see that percent of industry employment, so you have the most of them, natural gas, really, it's not even in the bottom, right? That's a considerable spot to get into. And natural gas distribution in this case probably is a rather lucrative field to get into if you can get in on that. And not every state is eager to shut down natural gas production and distribution, right? You only see that happening in certain states, but in those that do, for example, the natural gas is still running, or they tend to pay a whole lot more than states that only have electrical. It was very interesting how this spreads out, but as you can see, the building equipment contractors are one that have the least amount of employees and they're pretty much paid the least, right? Whereas the very integrated utilities that have generation transmission distribution, well, those tend to have the most employees or the most line workers working in their organizations. Next slide, please. So top paying, right? Industries in this case, so like I said earlier, natural gas distribution is one of them, of course, and then of course it kind of trickles down commercial grocery machinery and then electrical power generation transmission that's the least paid. But again, it keeps, if you can focus on being a natural power and start a repair in the natural gas distribution site, right, that's going to be interesting. Another example of course are utilities that have both together. And one example of this is a link of, think of a part of Pacific Gas and Electric, which is PG&E in California, where they sell both electric energy and they sell natural gas. So that combined together, that's where they have that kind of like, that kind of like a revenue and they can pay that kind of salary. But remember, it's not every city in California has that expensive to live in. I mean, I've been to places such as Bakkerville, California to do some work and you can still get a house there between three and $400,000 in some places. It's remote, it's rural, but the point is that there are areas in California that are affordable still, it's just they're a little bit remote. But again, a lot of these jobs, you can end up traveling for work, be gone for several weeks, come back. And a lot of what I would have, what I would do of course, was usually in the Hurricanes, right? I would end up being out of town for several weeks at a time, then we'll come back and my job didn't get me time and a half, like the line workers did, but seeing their kind of salaries, that was really impressive to see what they would bring home after a period of four, five, six weeks. Next slide, please, number six. And here on this map, we have basically the states that employment parlor and installers and repairs by state. This is back from May of 2022. And we're seeing some of these darker states, right? That usually states that are in dark, the dark ones like Texas, Florida, Georgia, California, those tend to have the most, the higher concentration of these line workers. The interesting thing here is that you see how it's the late agreement is 50 to 630, then the next shade of green is 640 or 1570. Then it says, so the range is not that far apart, but that last dark one, it goes from 3,000 to 11,000. So that's quite a big range in that case. So it can be anywhere between those two numbers. My point is that usually these are the states where a lot of that electrical infrastructure right now is being developed, whether it's new, whether they're trying to build lines, supply those renewable resources on one side of the spectrum, whereas the other side of the spectrum, they could easily be working on projects that have to do with natural gas and electricity together, right? So you see Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, all the states down there, they are pretty dense when it comes to having a lot of personnel employed for that industry. At the same time, those are very popular states. So a lot of concentration of people whereas when you move to the Midwest or the other Rockies, right? Those areas tend to be not very, not very congested. However, the salaries there, you're gonna see that in another map, they're still pretty high compared to California. So keep that in mind. Next slide, please. All right, so states with the highest employment level and at least personnel, of course, Texas has the highest number and employment of 4,000 jobs. So in this case, Texas is really growing and developing this industry quite a bit. A lot of that is in a renewable field, right? And following that is California. And of course, after that is Florida. So a lot of work going on there as well. But as you can see here, the hourly mean wage, Texas doesn't pay as high compared to California, for example. So it's rather interesting in this case, right? Let's go ahead and go to the next slide, please. So here we go. The annual mean wage, so these personnel, is what I find interesting here is that the very dark blue, the darkest blue circles, right? You see California, the Northwest, Pacific Northwest and all these other like Northern states and the Rockies, Idaho, Montana and Minnesota and North Dakota. So those states have to pay a lot more than some of the ones in the South or even Texas, right? And it's an interesting thing to point out because a lot of these, I guess, the West Coast may have a higher cost of living, but they have a lot of projects. But so do the ones in the North, right? But then again, living there is a little bit more harsh of a condition, but you're making a considerable amount of money for a very low cost of living. And if we look at Hawaii also, by the way, Hawaii is a rather a very high, very high mean wage for those line workers. So all these viewers in Hawaii, for example, you definitely know that your line worker is very well paid. And if you're a line worker, if you're somebody thinking of getting into the trades, well, Hawaii is a really great place actually to look into given the fact that how you come. He is and I'm not sure what the housing market in Hawaii or the cost of living in Hawaii looks like. I imagine it's high. So that salary is usually domestic right to and matches what that place demands, right? But so just to keep that in mind, it's important, it's consistent with what cost of living is of course reflected on the average salaries in that place. Next slide, please, number nine. So the top paying states in this case, which is interesting, right, is here you're looking at Connecticut, right? And then of course, Hawaii is coming at a second. Now you can see here, Hawaii only has 400 line work. So if you're looking at, you're just getting out of high school when you wanna find yourself in interesting trade or crafts and you don't wanna go to college, you don't wanna get into or you just wanna get an AS and then go to like a line worker school, well, Hawaii might be the place. Now my concern is there may not be a lot of line worker education or line worker colleges in Hawaii. Usually you see that in the community college system, but definitely a place to make some, a really earn a good living in beautiful Hawaii. I do imagine you'd have a lot of hurricane restoration out there in that part of the world, which of course gives you busy, but at the same time, you're going to have opportunities to earn quite a bit of overtime. And then we're going to Oregon, Washington and California, those are places where the cost of living again is high, but you're also engaged in a lot of like renewable projects. So you may be seeing quite a bit of that as well. Next slide, please. And this is where a lot of them are employed. This is all by concentrations in area. So that gives you an idea of how this breaks down. And of course this presentation will be to see us later. Next slide, 11. So now we're looking at two metropolitan areas, right? The highest employment level in these workers. So usually in Texas, Houston, the Woodland, Shrugland, of course it has the highest rate. And then of course, all the way at the bottom is Riverside, San Bernardino, Ontario, Canada. So, sorry, California, California. So in this case, you're looking at Miami for a lot of things. I mean, that's a place where I spend most of my career working, right? That has, for example, employment for a thousand jobs is just under 0.74. So definitely an interesting place to work. Not the highest paying of all, but then again, they have the highest, that's among the highest of employment levels for these land workers. Look at the next slide, slide 12. Highest concentration of jobs, going to cut the cattle out of Vama in this case. So again, Florida falls into another village. This has the highest concentration of jobs in this field. But once again, right? California falls up there. And then I don't see Hawaii this list apparently based on this metric. But it's really interesting to notice, right? Where the industry, this is falling into. All right. Next is the annual mainway, just slide 13. And we're looking at here, for example, you're looking at the high, and again, it's consistent, right? What we're looking at in this particular example. Annual mainway. So you're looking at different areas now. Hawaii here, it's like some islands make a lot more than the other bigger islands, smaller islands. So there is like, you know, a little bit of discrepancies between the islands, but in California and all the West Coast, you see that it pretty much generally is really, really high. So it's really interesting scenario there in this case when it comes to all this employment. Slide 14, please. Next one. All right. So top paying metro areas, right? In this case, of course, is San Diego, California, that has the highest. And just look at that figure. $127,000 a year at $61 an hour. And I go, that's the hourly main wage. And then just say all the way down to like, for example, California. So as you can see, it's all these Western states. And then, but not far behind is Hawaii. Well, one of the Hawaiian islands out there. So you look at somebody who's already about $116,000 a year, which is not a bad living, where for like a utility line work. So something else keep in mind in this case, right? Now, you know, I'm not trying to convince you to be a line worker. It is dangerous hard work. But when it comes to this new renewed interest in the trades, I mean, would you rather be a line worker? Would you rather be a electrician or a plumber or a carpenter? I mean, those are all important, necessary professions. And they're becoming even more so now where a lot of them are retiring. But these are definitely attractive when it comes to doing a 40 hour work. We get them being paid quite a bit extra in that time and a half when you're having to work a little bit beyond your normal hours, right? So these are non-metro areas. Okay, so let's go to the slide, slide 15, please. Next one. So non-metro areas are the highest employment for these personnel. So non-metro, of course, meaning they're not as big or they're more rural or more remote. These are a little bit different. So you're looking at some areas that don't pay as high in these cases, right? So again, when you select where do you wanna go work, having this data is important so you can make a decision, decide where you want to go work, especially after you've gotten yourself your opportunity to join an apprenticeship. But if you're, all the audience here, I think it's like Hawaii, most of you are in Hawaii. I certainly recommend that you look at, becoming a line worker. It's a great opportunity, a very rewarding career. Everybody who's a line worker who I know, especially nowadays, the level of safety and the equipment and the training and the importance that the industry now places on keeping the line worker safe is so much different than it was five years ago, 10 years ago, a night and day to 20 years ago when I was first in the industry. And me being an engineer, I worked a lot with a lot of these line workers and I can tell you that this seems dramatically changed. So important to keep that in mind. So it's still hard work, you still have to learn how to climb poles, you have to work with stuff that's potentially fatal or deadly, but everything can be done safely given the correct tools and the correct training and practices, best practices. Okay, slide 16 please. Again, some of this stuff again, the concentration similar we saw earlier and then the very last slide, slide 17. Top pain, here we go. Top pain, not much for areas, right? So once again, coast of Oregon, not much for... So if you wanna live in Oregon, but not live, for example, in Portland, you can still find areas in there that they can actually have a pretty good living without having to live in the highly concentrated, expensive parts of the state. Same thing with California here, also in California and then of course central Oregon, not much for an area. And there is a concentration in these non-metro areas that do pay quite well. So in Hawaii, for example, and remember you might be able to do quite nicely as a career and you can really accumulate not just a wage earning, but also pension, retirement, 401K. You can start putting money away as early as 19, 20 years of age and a lot of these places match your retirement. So if you're putting away like a good, they match four and a half percent. It's almost like you're putting away seven percent and they're giving you that extra bump in money, right? So if you're not putting away at least what they match or leaving money in the table and then not to mention the fact that historically the start market has done about 8%. So after about 20 years, 25 years, if you began early enough, you could easily retire in your mid to late 40s with well over a million dollars, sometimes more. So if you have that retirement money, you have a pension, you get a Social Security, you have properties that you've actually invested in and paid off and this is quite the opportunity and you can do this often enough without any college debt. So there's quite a bit of programs out there given the fact that there's so many shortages in this craft and trades that you can probably get yourself a free ride in a lot of cases. So again, I'm not sure I know the Hawaiian education system, but I definitely encourage all the viewers that are in Hawaii to take a closer look at their vocational programs in the high schools and take a look at the community colleges and their system to actually get better acquainted and better educated on what's available. And I do know there's quite a bit of opportunities here in the mainland when it comes to line worker or lineman colleges and a lot of them are not that expensive. A lot of them have scholarships available. A lot of them have a lot of financial aid. From the federal government and state government. So many of opportunities and you gotta remember wherever there's a demand for, there's a shortage, there's a demand for labor. You're going to find great opportunities. But again, now if you're a parent and you're concerned that your child is, your young adult child is going into the trades, I would really put you at ease in the understanding that a lot of these careers are very, very lucrative. They're not as dangerous as most people imagine. And for the most part, right, you may be outside but they end up being really rewarding careers. Whereas once you're done with work, you leave work behind. You don't bring work home with you like you don't really do. And then when you have a call out, it's just the amount of work that you can make is amazing. Being on call is another great opportunity to actually just sitting at your house waiting on call means you're still being paid by the hour of the wait. Just an amazing opportunity. And in a lot of cases, right? A lot of these jobs, a lot of these careers, you still are given the opportunity to go to school while you're working. So you don't always lock them into these at 40 hours, 50 hours, 50 hour work week trades. And in a lot of cases, so you can still have opportunities for greater education. And I myself went to a little bit of a layman college I worked for some time, learned how to pose. It is hard work, learned how to operate a bucket truck. I didn't become a land worker. I ended up becoming an electrical engineer. But the point is that that is definitely a highly rewarding career. I think it's fun. The environment, the climate's a little tough sometimes. Given the weather where it's hot or it's rainy or in some places where even part of the Northeast in the US is really cold, the wildlife sometimes. But at the same time, it's a very fun rewarding career for anybody that gets into it. And it's not, it's predominantly men, but I have seen quite a lot of women do very well in these fields also. And they move very quickly through the career path. And eventually most of these jobs, you end up working through and you get promoted to the point where you're a four man, four person, you end up being a supervisor, or you end up, for example, in a control center ultimately. And again, great progression and a lot of them retire, they do very well. They retire in their early to mid fifties. And some of them go back as consultants to make even more money. So again, don't be discouraged by the trades because these can do very well. And it's definitely something that the industry needs. And there's a huge demand for it and there's quite a shortage. Again, leave me comments below if you have any anything you wanna ask, I'll try and respond. But thank you so much for tuning in today. And once again, we'll look at this more and feel free to send me a comment or send me an email and I'll try my best to respond. But thank you again, have a wonderful afternoon and best of life to all of you.