 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa and of course we're moving on with our program and first conversation of course as we earlier advertised talking about security or insecurity in the country a review of media reports by news outfit premium times has shown at least 103 people were killed by non-state actors in Nigeria in the last week and this is from March 6th to March 12th 2022 very grim statistics if you ask the review says that last week's killings indicate a massive increase of over 900% when compared with a previous week when 10 persons were killed 900% the figure of the previous week was the lowest in the year 2022 by the way out of the 103 people who were killed 24 were security personnel consisting of 18 soldiers and six police officers while remaining 79 were civilians now most of the killings occurred in KB state Northwest Nigeria where others were recorded in a few other states No incident was recorded in Zangfara state so called a state or Niger state which are arguably the epicenter of the banditry in the country Two persons were killed in Kaduna state to 82 in KB including at least 63 vigilantes from five communities Who were confirmed dead after bandits ambushed them on Sunday evening? Two days after the outlaws after the outlaws on Tuesday again killed 18 Soldiers and six policemen in the entourage of the KB state deputy governor Sumaila Sumaila Yumbe 12 deaths were recorded in Kaduna state Seven children reportedly killed in a stampede of residents fleeing from bandits in Shimfira that's in Jabiya local government area also in Kaduna state five passengers lost their lives while three others were severely Wounded when bandits open fire on a moving vehicle in Yan Tumaki That's in the on the Dan Musa Road on Saturday morning in August 8th yet to be identified as salants Also on Monday set ablaze the ballet of a low a buggera in a begotten of local government area Following the incident in KB state president Muhammad Abu Harini statement by his spokesperson Gabra she who condemned the killings the president while reacting to the incident vowed to put an end to the killings by Bandits in the northwestern part of the country. Well, the question is Can he and will he Very glad to say joining us this morning on breakfast is a security consultant ambassador dr. Whammy and Roy or he Dva. He's our guest on the program this morning ambassador Good to have you joining us today. Thank you. I don't know if I can still smile without your opening Narrative Thank you really sad indeed I'm so so so what I what I what's your answer to that question the president's is reacted by condemning the situation the incident in KB state really really sad one the The bandits held The secure operatives in a convoy of the deputy governor in a gun battle for two hours and more and When they left at least 18 of them we go The president has condemned it and he's vowing to Address the banditry in northwest which seems to have taken over and exceeded the insurgency in the northeast your thoughts on that Well To be Direct, let's try to really look at it directly Now if you see when you make comments as a president is there commensurate action now action in the sense that The the situation we found ourselves in Nigeria. We have since been talking about it We have been insinuating all the own on wholesome opportunities for politicians the Religious activities ethnic violence activities to influence security agencies, you know, even the judiciary has not even helped all the Institutions are comatose, you know It's only when you go to a butcher or you make a phone call To some certain persons that you can make some things happen in the country, you know So we if you if you want to follow the president's statement You are supposed to see appropriate recruitment processes for our security agencies You're supposed to see proper remuneration. You're supposed to see discipline for airing officers and agency personnel You are supposed to see a rich curriculum that is ready to articulate the current insecurity global insecurity You know, you are supposed to see logistics Properly applied, you know, and you are supposed to see promotion and control of deployment of personnel being in the hands of the responsibility of every agency the army the military the DSS You know, they should be in charge. Then you are supposed to see a judiciary that should respect judicial Expectations, you know a government that is people centered But that is not what we have that has brought us to where we are today that look at government chairman Obers a my village chiefs. They are now among in the criminality. They are complicit Some of them have been arrested, you know We have worship centers both the Imam and the Christians now you see pastors and imams being complicit in kidnaping and drugs You know, you see government personnel security agencies senior officers military police being complicit in kidnaping Financial fraud. So where do you think a government a president making such a statement should start from? He should start from making people accountable So you so you would say now because Let's even start from that part. I mean the issue of security for every time we get to talk about it One would say that we need to look at it the way it is in its real sense He affects everybody like everybody it has nothing to do with whether you're you belong to a certain political party PDP APC and what have you so And how would you describe the? Real issue right here because if you look at it the country as we are 36 states Including the FCT so you're saying 37 the security consents are not the same in different parts of the country So you have in the north is the issue of banditry kidnap and there, you know Boko Haram insorgency in that side and to other parts you have in the you know The southeastern region where you have iPop issues those who are agitating for Self-governance and then to different parts you have the issue of maybe banditry Farmer headers clash Kidnappings and what have you one or saying that the society should be entirely free of all of this crime But to some extent it should be safe. So how would you really really describe? What would you see the problem is with us being that if you look at the this current administration The president came on you know the grounds that he was going to solve the insecurity issues if you look at some of the issues security corruption and economy Seven years and counting it feels like we have gone back to I really don't know where we really are right now It's no longer safe babies are now being carried and because in some of this state I'm sorry that I'm taking long in some of the states for instance Just some days back. There's a baby who was in the dispatch You know box and taking around the area of Shungu Tendo But the president should we blame the president for that as well? So how do we really describe this problem that we're facing? What exactly is the problem here? Okay, I like you were not too long. You are trying to capture the scenario You know the surrender is bleak. Now if you want to go a little back. That's also a safe time You will see that Nigerians got into politics and weaponized violence the first time we got into politics it was to break bottles snag baller bosses and Engrave the elbows of people that could cut me him, you know later We promoted them to call them Godfathers So they were the ones that we decide who becomes this and we started to destroy the Articulate and relevance of Inaq, you know, so ballot counting does not count anymore. It was truncated It was moved from one place to the other infused with negative bosses votes Then you now see politicians looking at hoodlums as their own armies Creating armies became a skill to be recognized as a good politician So when you can just blow a whistle boys coming and scatter everywhere didn't know we were creating a model Called political terrorism, you know, because we wanted to use policies to intimidate and cause fear So we created these hoodlums we and them we gave them superiority over security agencies Now it's cutting across the whole country remember no APC or PDP Nigeria now because they all move from party to party even after a party voted you into Office as a governor as a senator the next week is moving to another party. How you understand? So we have seen all of this and now we needed to discuss the gray areas. We agree as you said There's insecurity everywhere. So but we need to mitigate it. We need to call it. We need to put it on that rain Okay, so we need to discuss so if we want to discuss anything in security in the Niger Delta area We need to look for who can discuss who can represent the people And the people that were pushed forward to represent the North the South the East they were all scams They were interested in helping themselves Yes, come is a scum is a decoy a scum is it is deployed to confuse to misdirect You know, so these were people that came to a sorok any time any day came to a roundtable any time any day Discussing national issues but putting their personal interests in front so the people were not properly represented So gradually dividends of democracy pushed to the NDC did not get to the Niger Delta Go and look at the roads. Go and look at that dividends of democracy pushed to the North Could not get to the masses their marjorie militant and military Militant groups all of them grew up from 1999 Not just building a cattle quickly for you, you know, so all of these things grew up so the people became agitated And unfortunately for them these cabals that hold Nigeria that make decisions From a governor you become a senator from a senator after eight years Some are coming back to say they want to be a governor a president from there They go and be an ambassador. Okay, so they were looking for immunity for the misrepresentation they were doing Not knowing that the people agitation was growing Children started growing with disgruntled hats. So a bike man can carry a child A six years old can carry a gun 18 years old can use his mother for rituals because everybody has seen that there is no law and order Breakdown of law and order anarchy reigns and there's no institution to curb it So basically is the issue you want to say that it's not that we don't have what it takes to address the issue What is the fact that there's uh, you know, there's no willpower to Enforce obedience and make a risk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, when I joined the Nigerian army I was I was so impressed if there is a traffic break Holdup somewhere and you just see a soldier come down with just his belt Everybody would just be themselves, you know, if you are taking to the police station You are begging because from the police station one or two evidence put together straight to court And you see a lawyer you respect a lawyer so much because you know that he stands for justice You know, I'll call my lawyer and you are begging the guy don't call your lawyer But nowadays all those institutions have dilapidated trust So the the the the erosion of trust Competency relevance is what we are now. So you take me to the police station I'm already calling another police to call that police to call this police and share money and you that is the complainant Become the accused. It's not the police fault. It's the institutions that are supposed to control them Look at abacare's case just as a small example Where is the office of the ig when a police officer was on social media was assuring affluence Where is the police service commission? Where are the areas? What about the military those generals that were caught with billions that you see them building buying houses in abuja Transferring wealth banks are supposed to know when setting amount of money move as a staff In the setting amount of money getting to your account. It's supposed to be blocked You are not supposed to get more than that, you know, so what happened to those financial controls ICPC all of those institutions So if we don't control the institutions make them accountable for people that default on policies regulations criteria to hold office then we continue to encourage the masses The youths the teenagers that are coming to visionize be like you interesting. So so you you've um, you've you've uh, You know connected and you can't say we can't you say we can't talk about Insecurity in isolation. It has connected connecting dots to other issues in a larger country. You've talked about corruption. You've talked about discipline You've talked about morality Muhammad Abu Hari came to office in 2015 on expectations that being a Former general who has a track record of Fighting in discipline and the corruption will be a thing of the past She will talk about security He was the one who against the orders of the then president she will shagari chase mitasine into another country Child and it was ended in a few hours or days. Um, so this was expectation. What went wrong? well, um As a military officer If you give an order today For the next 10 years after you leave the orders distance There's a joke that some men were found Guiding a A molded chair in a barrack soldiers were guarding it Just a chair they clean it and they push there with their rifle It's a joke But someone came to finally ask why are they putting guards on a on a concrete chair? You know and they asked all the commanders and by the time they got to the commander that gave the instruction He said he put those soldiers there because the concrete was wet He wanted them to protect it So the military might the military discipline Was what um, president bohameda boharu was catching on not knowing that in the civil space in a democracy You needed your officers. You needed your action desk. You needed your institutions The nmpc the ministry of this the health sector the judicial sector You needed hams men to hold your vision of Insecurity no no crime. No corruption. No this no that you needed to place people there You cannot just be at asorok as the president and say there won't be corruption in Nigeria It's not possible. Why because every officer's have their cascading office roles So that was the first error that the president had to believe that if he comes in as a model of No corruption. No in security man of no nonsense. It will hold water It won't hold water. So people started to create insecurity in different places Insecurity are the world of the day and all you need to do is now to call somebody There was a time he called one ig to report to the Front lines. He didn't go. He was in abuja and nothing was done Those were the times that he he should begin to see That officers were relevant for your corporate vision. Okay, so let's look at it from this angle There's been a lot of argument about, you know, the personnel you have mentioned it and some people say that it's because we don't have enough personnel You know to police the entire country if you want to look at the number of police officers policing over 200 million Nigerians Or plus Nigerians. You're looking at 300 about 300,000 or plus And so that's not even enough according to the un recommendation we're hoping that you have You know 600 police at you know 601 police officer policing about maybe 180 or there about but in this case we're looking at One police officer policing about 600 persons. So the issue of you know, the manpower the strength is a major issue I would cite a typical example when the hashtag ends as protest started and those who hijacked the system Because of course the status is very peaceful process until you had some element who took over the entire protest in different parts of the state Yes, I was you know in the southern part of the country at that time And I put a call to you know the pier of police In the state and she said we don't have men. We don't have men. We don't have men the fire here You know there's nobody the police stations being set ablaze Apart from that the fact that they don't have men and I felt so sorry for myself Because I saw some persons who were going to set a feeling station ablaze And so there was so what what what could one do? So this is just the scenario saying that Could he also be that the reason why we're grappling with all of these insecurities that we don't have enough personnel In terms of police officers Well, in an emergency situation, you're supposed to make do with what you have It is proactive to begin to think of situations to put yourself that we call emergency situations It is reactive to begin to look for solutions when you are in an emergency Now we are in an emergency, but let me just take a cue from what you have said Look at there are people look the value of the officer Determines the number that you need ma The value now if I have 10 men and just three people can do the job of that 10 men Look at the the value of the remuneration of a police officer Not only the salary accommodation Look at the healthcare for his family things that will make him comfortable to To project himself forward now those are not there Then you begin to look at the logistics provided the current insecurity situation And the technological level that we should be executing right now We see it on tv. We see it on google, but it's not appropriately deployed in our policing in our military activities Okay Now you look at the quality of personnel after you look at the remuneration to attract the quality you want And I ask a simple questions These guys that you see driving logistics bikes that are intelligent enough these guys that are doing cyber crimes That are intelligent enough. Do you know how many Nigerian graduates that read criminology and security studies? Do you know how many university does criminology and security studies for five years and they graduate every year? Now if you take this number of people send them sms If you want to join the police, please meet us as also and so please take that number of people send them sms military Dss they will come out. These are graduates of five years. Maybe seven years if I would have us to strike Now these are people that are also riding the ladder These are people that are doing security in my company and so many other persons company that their brains are full of ideas But the opportunity to deploy it is is restricted now if you do that you have called the Fake recruitment system that is going on now. Do you know what's going on? They call one guy and say we are rukiting. Do you have people rank at a day or Or go from the east. Do you have people or go from Edo or from Yoruba land? Do you have people they send them people from their Nooks and crannies even if he's not educated enough even if he fails the exam You will hear he was brought by xyz person. Ah director of plus cv sent him. Oh that man You you need to read when you join the military or the police Make sure you read all the time and they put in these wrong pegs in wrong holes And you see a lot of them becoming Stooges boys to one madam like you saw carrying food for the woman and all those kind of things that are irrelevant To the level of insecurity and the required intelligence deployment of technology And wishful patriotism That is required anybody that went to invest in Nigeria to read criminology and scurvy stories for five years six years seven years If there is strike comes our star idea okrada is patriotic So but um just before I let kofi come in are you saying that the issue right here is not the issue of Numbers boys the fact that we've not been able to manage the numbers that we have is that what you're saying I said if you need We are talking about proactive and reactive. I mentioned that so now we are in reactive We are reactive So if you need men Now you need to look at what is the current deployment? How many men do you have? Have you had when there's an umbra election or where there's a election in goomba? You hear 3 000 policemen were deployed to the state. Have you heard that before? So why don't you hear 20 000 3 000 policemen? Do we have a proper Statistics of living officers that are good to go to be deployed in the front line Do we know how many we have or we are following the media Discretion we don't know so if you know how many you have you will not know if they are appropriately deployed How many did you say was following a governor 16 soldiers or whoever? What was statistics you mentioned? At those the numbers I travel a lot. I see governors in in canada I see governors in the u.s. I see people that hold office in buses in trains with me And I wonder why is it that we don't do this in our country if you are children school in Nigeria You will make sure the schools are good You will make sure there's security around where they go to school where they transverse If you also understand that you need to visit your village Your local governments that voted you into power at least twice in a month You will make sure that place as a criteria to hold office. You are not supposed to be in a butcher You will make sure your village is secured You know, you will make sure all of these things work if you are supposed to follow economy If you are supposed to follow the train that we built is not for the masses is for Nigerian citizens If you are supposed to follow that you make sure the fuel is complete all the time that there won't be stoppage on the road You know, so because we have removed our Our leaders from utilizing the opportunities they gave us to enjoy democracy It's like it like animal farm where some animals are greater than others. I like to like to interesting very dress analysis I like to share an experience of some persons. I know who traveled through the southeast Um on the 20th of february One of them very popular guy in podhakot is still missing as we speak. His name is steady easy Family is praying friends are praying for him to return home The next one is a very close person to me who traveled from podhakot to anambra to a village for a traditional marriage My heart was in my mouth Because I know it's in going on between the Um abia imo border and of course you go through that road to get to okie great The person moved from the altar at the family convoy moved from anambra to asaba Now on making the trip from asaba back to podhakot They had to go through the southeast because they realized that some roads were blocked by boys So they diverted all the cars diverted through a village villages through the bushes And if I show you the messages and the accounts and the talk the chat on the phone It was gory. We're just praying that she makes it back home in one piece There were reports of dead bodies seen on the street There were reports of a human heart being seen on the street. There was no report of a single policeman seen When they crossed him from imo state into river state, we shouted hallelujah Not a single policeman. Who did they see providing security in the southeast? Sir vigilante boys community boys Now there's there's there's a suspicion that the young man who has been looked for has been kidnapped So this community boys would stop the cars the bus they're driving the commercial vehicle and ask for money So they block the road so that you divert to the villages and ask for money and if you don't pay They cut the gun at you they are armed So we have an absence of police on the roads in all the almost entire southeast as we speak today And it's being run by community vigilantes and unknown government. What's what's the issue and how can we get out of this situation? Okay, you know the issue of the south is this just also You need to understand that it's escalating beyond control because right now children are seeing it as status school And my all my fear all the time because I talk to youths a lot. I talk to university students I talk to schools children If you build that mindset in that catchment of Nigerians, you are going to be in a big trouble Okay, so now in those north east areas I'm sorry Eastern shows that you're talking about What is the problem the problem now is people are saying they want biafra and all that What discussions are on the table on the side of the easterners? I have said it. What discussions are on the table? Who is discussing for you? Violence violence violence Look at the military veterans when we had all the Disguntlements when I came out of the military. I joined forces with those I see have articulate ideas to defeat the The maltreatments until date you have not seen a situation where they said retired military people took out arms We could we can we should okay with the level of Decadence people are dying every day our colleagues. We fought together. We survived. We retired from the military. They are dying But because of control there are articulate ways to interrogate all the grievances of the east I have had opportunities where Easterners got into the senate. There are opportunities where I'm from that area too So there are opportunities where we got into presidency What have we done to put some laws into place? We do the n d dc n d dc is used now to siphon money. There are cases already. We are not speculating You know, so if we have the violence Frontline is it going to help us? How many generations behind are we training to be violent? So I think that the discussion should be reawakened. The discussion should be By people that understand articulate interrogation of cases people that have mediation and consolation skills I am a fellow of the insta chartered mediation and consolation. I let them I did a lot of things You know, there are discussions that you could put forward Judiciary to hold ground the senate and the legislation to put in laws that we still benefit So, so you're saying we need to look at non-military solutions in the southeast? Non-violence Non-violent solutions quickly very quickly because of time the northeast Was the problem now the northwest is the problem banditry has exceeded terrorism very quickly the solution Well, we started to say we want to find out who people were but we failed We started to say we want to hold ground and refuse them to hoist flag We're failing to we started to say we want to do community resilience Which is to relate with the people get intelligence from the people But we are failing also because there are modes within the military the police and all other agencies You know, so I think that where we should start from from beginning to see what's going on is there are mineral resources in those areas Some of them are one of the reasons why this is being attractive. You remember the Niger Delta with the Oil and the oil wells and all that So if you look at the mineral resources, if you begin to put proper government regulations Resist this a mercenary kind of mining those minerals Refuse all these hoodlums to hold ground Rotate and mobilize the military police. Whoever nscdc you sent to those area Regularly so they don't become business owners in those places and penalize people found wanting So I will just steal a few second now. There's no way we talk about the issue of security or insecurity without looking at the security I mean the structure of policing Some people say the fact that we have a centralized Police structure is not helping Decentralize it less state control the architecture. Do you support this notion? And do you think this will help us? Bring peace and some sort of security So let me say state policing is being offered. I said as to say it I've said it in like seven years ago I'm still saying it till date state policing is fine. Okay, but We don't have responsible government that is going to remove its claws from the state police You know that we not use it to intimidate. We don't have responsible government that we motivate the state police to the level of Compliance that we expect. Let's take legal state for an example They were coming with all these their Internal system the legal states and security these guys that ride bicycles and wear these blue and you know, that system is dying You know, they have not imputed the right candidates. Then the teachers are not paid some state Staff members are not paid. How will you pay those that carry arms? We need responsible governors If you have reforms responsible governors, I will be interested in state policing We can't give a state government state police and it's not able to pay them Motivate them and equip them. It will be a disaster. Thank you so much for your time It's been very interesting having you on the program. Ambassador doctor oami and roi ohidi of here Is a fellow of the IIPS at some years also a security consultant and he's been our guest on The breakfast this morning apologies Thank you very much. Yes, um, but we've totally enjoyed your analysis. I hope to have you again soon And have a birthday in advance. Yeah, it's his birthday. All right. I don't know what the two of you plan to come All right, it's sort of breakfast. So we're back to talk some more right here on the program. Please stay with us