 Hi, I'm Marianne Sasaki. You're watching Life in the Law here at Think Tech, Hawaii, where we discuss cutting-edge legal topics. And today, we are very, very lucky to have Christine Kubat on the show. She's the editor-in-chief of a new magazine called The New Leaf, which is going to cover marijuana in all its forms. Why would you... Oh. I probably shouldn't have copied the show at that point. Well, it's The New Leaf. And when are you planning on publishing, Christine? Oh, within the next few weeks. We're doing everything we can to get out before September. Terrific. Terrific. Because I think the state needs it. I think the time is right. I think it did. So tell me... Well, tell me how you got involved, where you got the idea, what the magazine is going to be like. Tell me everything. Oh, everything. Okay. So the idea came to me. I was at a forum, and there were a number of guests there. Senator Russell Ruderman, Dr. Berg, who's very much involved in certifying patients on Hawaii Island. A lot of people. And everybody was talking about cannabis and what's happening. Right. And my head just started to swim. I was like adrift in a sea of information. And thinking, who is going to get all this together and consolidate it? Somebody really needs to do that. And then I went, oh, I guess that should be me. So I just started talking to people about it. And first it was going to be a newsletter, something very simple. Right. Just for the big island. Right. And then, no, that wasn't enough. Next thing, you know, we needed to go statewide. And just yesterday I was having a conversation with people in Oregon. And my business partner, he's actually an Alaska resident. And he's... Raphael Chakin. Yes. Let's give him his juice. Yes. Thank you. Mm-hmm. And so now what we're hearing is this really needs to be done for the whole West Coast, which then makes it easy for you to imagine it should be done for the nation. Right. And who knows where we're going to stop right now for myself. I'm just focused on Hawaii. Well, you know, I was at the National Cannabis Summit in Oakland last month. I was, or the month before. Mm-hmm. And there are some sophisticated magazines, you know, now dedicated solely to marijuana. And they look great. I mean, they're glossy. They're like fashion magazines. They're really terrific. And, you know, it's a burgeoning market. I mean, it's huge. It's huge. So you may very well find yourself a coastal or national or who knows, you know. Well, I'm glad to hear that because I was kind of feeling like, you know, the public has on us. So I'm glad to hear that there's other publications out there. There is. I wish I, I think I just got rid of them, because I had kept them around for a while because I was so enamored with them. And, but let me, I can get you some information about what I saw, what they gave out at that show. That was a terrific conference. I mean, everybody from all over the country came. And, you know, obviously I focused on the legal ramifications and tax ramifications of medical marijuana dispensaries. So it was really, you know, fascinating. So what, to what kinds of topics are you going to focus on? I mean, are you going to focus on the dispensaries or are you going to do recreational in anticipation of recreational or? Okay. So we're the big tent and we're bringing everyone together. Medical marijuana dispensaries, patients, advocates, regulators. We also want the Department of Health to be in there because they have certain messages that they're committed to, like anti-smoking. And I think a lot of times when people smoke marijuana that smoke a lot, I think some of those people are in denial about the health impacts, the negative impact. I think that's right. Like a lot of people focus on it as a medicine and the positive things, but I think there's some denial going on there. I think that needs to be part of the conversation. We're very much interested in promoting responsible use. Right. But at the same time, we're going to get into the whole hemp industry because that's an important part of it. And there's a lot of people organizing around that. You know, some of them even actually involved with the dispensaries too. Right. Also looking at growing hemp. So there just needs to be a lot of conversation. People need to have really good information. There's already a lot of rumor being generated. There's battle lines being drawn. And we just want everybody to get in there, talk to each other, share the information that they have, and then we have to start sorting it out because the whole way we got to prohibition to begin with was a lot of very bad information. Right. And a lot of misinformation and propaganda. And we've got to sort that stuff out, but we can't just go in there saying, oh, it's all nonsense. You know, there's nothing to worry about. No, I think that people have very valid concerns. I myself have a valid, what I think is a valid concern with respect to gummy candies. I think that they're really dangerous actually and probably shouldn't be on the market. And I think in Colorado, they just ban them. I mean, there are definitely aspects of legalized marijuana that you want to monitor. So people don't either hurt themselves by driving under the influence or smoking, as you said, the smoking hazards, or hurt others like young children. So it's a big step, but it's a lot of responsibility, I think, to legalize. I've had a lot of conversations with people saying similar things to what you're saying, and they'll laugh and they'll ridicule others. There's no evidence that driving under the influence of marijuana is dangerous. So, okay, let's get to that, but at least let's have that conversation. Let's not just dismiss each other. I was talking with a woman the other day about the issue of kids getting a hold of edibles, and she just went off and she was saying, you know, that's not my problem. That's the parents and blah, blah, blah. And just really asserting her right as a medical marijuana patient or probably also recreational user to sort of trump this concern about kids. But I don't see that happening in Hawaii. People are very much focused on Ohana. There's the Aloha spirit. I think we can go into this really caring about kids and not just saying, well, it's not my problem if they get it, and finding ways to, you know, end prohibition in a way that just serves everybody. Yes. And so that's the magazine. We're hoping to just be front and center in that. Well, I think Virginia Pressler, who is, as you know, is the head of the health department, I think she's got a really good handle on that about how edibles, gummy bears, lollipops, cake, candy, that kind of thing might impact children. And she's got a pretty strict mandate that she doesn't want these things abused. So I really appreciate her point of view. I think she's got a very reasonable point of view because I think it is the states. You know, we regulate cigarettes. We regulate alcohol. I mean, I think it's something that needs to be regulated. But maybe it's because I'm a lawyer and I think everything needs to be regulated. Yeah, well, it's a transition. So how is that going to happen? You know, we're in a situation right now where there's this strict prohibition on the use of marijuana. And we see people flouting the law, you know, all the time. I mean, there's not really any place in this island where you wouldn't find people using it recreationally or growing it, you know, despite what the law says. And so how do we get from that place where there are laws that no one's paying attention to and getting regulations that we're all going to respect and feel good about, right? That's living with the law or whatever. Well, there were certain legislatures that I was happy to see in your publication, at least the version that I saw, Della Obalati and Willa Sparrow. And they're great sources of reasonable governmental figures that are reasonable on this issue and aren't trying to politicize it or, you know, scare people or, you know, I think that they've done a lot to just normalize the use of medical marijuana and to make it, you know, the implementation very sane. But what do you think about recreational? Do you think there's a timeline for recreational? I think we're headed in that direction and, you know, because it's already being used that way. And so to me, the really tricky part of the conversation that we need to start having relates to is how we're going to set up dispensaries and create a dispensed regulated market and still take care or address the needs of people who want to grow their own. So in our magazine, The New Leaf, we're never going to use the terminology black market. We're going to always refer to that as the homegrown market because we feel that the laws to begin with, the prohibition laws were not constitutional, were not fair. If you look back at the whole history of that, you know, and you read some of the testimony that came up before these congressional committees, I mean, it was this whole thing like, you can't let people have marijuana because if white women smoke it, they're going to have sex with black men. Right, right, right. I applaud that decision. Crazy. Not to use the term black. I hardly applaud that decision. And so since that time, even after the Supreme Court ruled the Marijuana Tax Act unconstitutional, which was basically how they kept people from growing it, and then Richard Nixon rolled in and they created all of these under this controlled substances act. Right. Really strict prohibitions and that's how cannabis got to be, schedule one to begin with. Right, it was really a direct, my view, just because I remember, it was a really direct reaction to the 60s and the prevalence of use in the 60s. I mean, look, we both know marijuana has nothing in common with the other schedule one substances. Right. You know, these are really serious, powerful drugs but it's just, it was a social concern, you know. It was based on a social bias of a certain constituency, so I agree. Yeah, I feel like, you know, people that were running the country at the time, which was basically older Caucasian males, felt so threatened by this kind of, like, women, you know, feminism coming on and, you know, black power coming on and like crazy jazz age drug. Boom, you know, we're going to shut it down by making their substance of choice illegal. So the people who've just been defying that all along and asserting their right to grow it and smoke it and use it, we're not going to continue to stigmatize them by calling what they have done the black market. That's terrific. Yeah. I think that's terrific because I, in my view, marijuana rights are civil rights and people ought to be able to, they're entitled to their civil rights and make their own choices as adults. So I absolutely think that it's a great idea that people who've been working so hard for so long are not stigmatized. And, well, I told you, I worked, now everybody will know. I worked for High Times magazine when I was a kid and I was an editor there. And, you know, but they, this is 20 years ago and, you know, they were adamant marijuana for food, fuel and fiber. I mean, they really, it's got a lot of uses. The founding fathers grew hemp, right? So, you know. Yeah, you could pay your taxes with hemp and I think there were even certain places where you had to grow a certain amount, you know, as your patriotic duty, if not as your legal duty. So now we're going to let go of that. But here in the state of Hawaii, you have this, this sort of contingent coming on that's promoting the medical marijuana industry. And, okay, so we're going to award these dispensaries. And it's a pretty lucrative thing, actually, for Department of Health. Like, you know, the amount of money that they make off of the fees. The applications. Then the processing, you know, and people are getting kind of greedy and they're like, oh, wow. And so the idea is that they're going to channel all of this use into the dispensed market. Right. And that to me right now, like when we're out there on the landscape starting to interview people, talk to people, like, what are your concerns? That's what we're hearing, the biggest concern and the biggest source of friction is going to be between this emerging dispensed market and the homegrown market. It's fascinating. Yeah. I'm going to take a quick break and we'll talk a little more about that because, yeah, once the big money and government get involved, all kinds of things happen, right? Yeah. So we're going to take a quick break. You're watching Life in Law and we'll see you in a minute. Aloha. My name is Josh Green. I serve a senator from the Big Island on the Kona side and I'm also an emergency room physician. My program here on Think Tech is called Healthcare in Hawaii. I'll have guests that should be interesting to you twice a month. We'll talk about issues that range from mental healthcare to drug addiction to our healthcare system and any challenges that we face here in Hawaii. We hope you'll join us. Again, thanks for supporting Think Tech. Aloha. My name is Justine Espiritu and I am the co-host of Hawaii Farmers' Series. This is my co-host, Matthew Johnson and we are live with you every Thursday at 4 p.m. at ThinkTechHawaii.com and our show focuses on Hawaii's local food community. We feature not only the farmers that are producing our food but we also feature the supporters and other folks involved in the community that are trying to promote local agriculture. Marijuana. Hi, you're watching Life in the Law and I've been discussing marijuana with Kristen Kubat and her new magazine or she's the editor-in-chief of this magazine, Raphael Chakin is the publisher called The New Leaf, dedicated to state... It's going to be a statewide magazine dedicated to all facets of marijuana use. Cannabis. Cannabis, yes. We'll use that term. Yes, it's kind of a bigger umbrella. And you know what actually... Why is it a bigger umbrella? Because I think the audience would want to know. So there's a lot of different strains of the cannabis sativa. So then of the cannabis plant, there's a lot of different strains and some of them are cultivated for their psychotropic properties, which would be the THC and then other plants are cultivated for other properties. So you might have lower THC but you'd be looking to cultivate something that had more seeds that were oilier or more fiber that was stronger or something like that. So when you get into the cultivars or to the strains that are valued for their fiber and seed qualities, then you're talking about hemp. But when you're talking about a plant that you're looking for the THC or the other cannabinoids, those kind of... Yeah, they're very complex chemicals. They are. And when you're cultivating for those properties, then you're talking more about marijuana or medical marijuana. Good to know. We want to use the appropriate terms. You're right. We want a big tent. We want all voices to be heard, not just the medical establishment or the governmental establishment voices, but voices. People have been fighting for this freedom for a really long time. As I said, I knew many of them in New York that they went against the tide for the longest time. I mean, people... Normal was N-O-R-M-L with national organization of marijuana. What's the L for? R-L. Anyway, they fought this fight for a very long time. So, you know... So are you going to have... In high times, there were humorous... some humorous satire. Is it going to be all informational or more like a business magazine? Yeah, I think more of an industry journal because I feel like that's what's needed. And again, we want to attract Department of Health, the various police departments, marijuana anonymous, you know. We want those kind of people, those kind of agencies, organizations to feel comfortable sharing their message to. Because, again, I just really feel like that needs to be part of the conversation. The only way it's going to work is that we can get to responsible use. And we don't do that by just, you know, brushing out all off. And I don't even think that the medical... You know, when you go out there and you start to meet the people who have actually been awarded the dispensary licenses, you're going to find that a lot of them are very serious health professionals. Yes, that's right. I represented a group. They didn't get a license, but I represented a group. And they were all medical professionals. They worked as doctors, nurses. And they... I mean, that's how I got... I've realized how serious an ailment... how much cannabis could do for, you know, various illnesses. Yeah, and so I think it's important for us to kind of keep that more professional tone, you know, for our journal, if other people want to do other things, you know, go for it, but we... Yeah, that's not what we're about. People need good information. We're hungry. So far, every time we go out with the magazine, you know, we've got like some articles together, kind of got a mock-up or whatever, people respond so well. I mean, at Office Depot the other day we were printing some copies, and the girls that printed them up for us were back there reading it, right? Right! When I saw a little article on Pacific Business News, I was immediately intrigued. I immediately called you because you're part of our culture, you know, and you do want...you know, you're going to be like U.S. News & World Report for cannabis, you know. I mean, that's what you're going to be, you know, and you're going to be the go-to publication. Yeah, that's our aim. So for instance, when you look at different things like the dispensaries are not allowed to advertise, but at the same time they have an obligation to inform the public so how do they do that? We're there to help. Department of Health, they're completely overwhelmed. You know, when you contact them and you try to get some information, they're just bombarded. And I'm really kind of wondering how they're going to be able to handle everything that's being put on their plate in addition to everything that they already have to do. Yeah, I think that's right. Because that's where our environmental protection regulatory process is also embedded. Right. So we're going to serve them as well. And then we've got people that have got products, you know, people are starting to get excited. Then on the hemp side of it, you know, how is this whole process going to go? Like so, for instance, I was at a gathering the other day, Scott Enright, who's the chair of Department of Agriculture was there. And I'm like, Scott, you know, what's going to happen? Are you guys going to start to give out licenses for hemp? And he basically told me, you know, in a month we're going to see an RFP out. It looks like they're going to select one, they're going to give one award and they're going to charge that awardee with cultivating seeds. So when it's time for the hemp industry to take off, at least we have our own seeds. Well, that's great because that was a big, as you know, a big issue. Where are you going to get the plants? That was a huge issue this time. Nobody seemed to think about it. We're going to go through all these little details. But we're learning. I mean, I think the learning curve is steep and so we're learning. That would be great to have someone cultivating seeds that would be brilliant. But that will be for like the hemp purposes, right? So, you know, we're learning but we're also making it up as we go along. And then what is the stuff that we use to make it up? Most of that stuff has to be information. And then in addition to that information we're talking, okay, how's this? Now you have these people that are going to be very interested in cultivating hemp. If they're out there and they're cultivating hemp in the field, there's a potential for the pollen that is generated from their plants to cross-pollinate, you know, homegrown medical varieties. How are we going to resolve that issue? We don't want to deny ourselves the ability to grow the hemp because here's something really beautiful that I'm understanding now. There's all these people out there advocating for medical marijuana as medicine for themselves. You know, this is going to heal me and the list of ailments is long, you know, stress, PTSD, whatever. But this same plant has the ability to heal the planet. Really? It has these amazing phytoremediation properties where if you plant hemp in soil that's been contaminated with chemicals and there's a lot of soil contamination in Hawaii from the sugar cane industry, it will remove those chemicals, a great deal of them from the soil and render them harmless. Wow, I didn't know that. That's fascinating. So now there's going to be these people jumping up and saying, well, you can't grow that hemp next to my marijuana plant because I need it for medicine. Well, what about the earth? Now the planet needs medicine too. So we have to talk about all this. We have to have really good information and, again, that's what we're doing. So who would you say, okay, so obviously the health department has been a leader with respect to the medical marijuana dispensaries because all the people who wanted a license had to apply. So who are some of the, you know, notable voices in the field and what are they saying? I mean, like, are they a representative of the homegrown market or several representatives of the homegrown market or representatives, you know, like I said, Della Obalati and Willis Barrow, I've worked with them. We'd like to get a cannabis bar association section together. Oh, yeah. You know, just, you know, so who have you been working with? Like what, have there been, you know, big names in the cannabis industry that we should know about? Or... I don't know if I totally understand the question, but I, you know, as far as an advocate for the homegrown market or the activism end of it and then pushing for decriminalization and recreational use, I've known Roger Christie for ever. Like at one point, Roger Christie and Aaron Anderson and another man named Dwight Kondo and I started the very first like hemp revival company in the United States. Really? We were the Hawaiian hemp company and there was this big old bag of hemp seeds that used to sit under my desk and I still remember Aaron Anderson out there, he got to play Santa Claus in the parade, the Christmas parade in Pahoa and he was throwing hemp seeds. Oh, that's funny. And just like people went off, they got ballistic about that. So I have a long relationship with those folks and you know, Roger, I'm definitely going to be getting his opinion on different things. There's a woman Andrea Tischler who's been really involved on Hawaii Island. Then there's the formal organizations. So there's going to be a task force that's going to come together as a result of HB2707 and we cover this in the first edition of the magazine and there are going to be some people like from the drug policy forum will be represented there. They don't really have anybody from the homegrown market sitting at that table. So I think we will take on the responsibility of interviewing people. Are they concerned with repercussion? Is that why they're not at the table? Are they concerned that it's the homegrown market and it's outside the legal system? Or do you think they haven't been asked? They haven't been asked as far as I can see. There's a lot of people who like this idea of dispensaries because it's a way to shut down the black market. There's a lot of people who are looking at this as a way to just channel all the demand into the dispensaries and not let people grow their own plants. Well I think that would be unfortunate. I think it would be limiting something that's sort of a cultural societal linchpin almost. People really can get around together around this issue and I don't think to negate a whole significant portion. No that's not good. And there's a business risk in it too. That's most of the approach that we will take is if we inflate the potential and we go off and we say this is what's going to happen all of these people who are growing it themselves are all going to start growing into the dispensaries and the markets this big people start making investments it doesn't quite work out then there's business interests are going to be right up there in the legislature pushing for laws that take it that way so we're just telling everybody calm down let's just see how does it go with aid dispensaries. Maybe that's enough because there's other things that are going to happen at the federal level and if all of a sudden marijuana becomes decriminalized and these people have all rolled into Hawaii made these big huge investments that aren't going to pan out that would be a disaster. That would be, it would be. Well I just wanted to thank you so much for coming. Look for it the magazine, the new leaf it's going to be, I know you told me it's coming out in August 15th? No August 15th we're past that. We're trying to get it out the last week in August it might be the first week in September but it's soon very soon. Look for it and read it because this is something that affects our communities we all are involved we all want good information and I think you're just the right person to bring it to us. Thanks. Thanks for having us.