 Welcome to Toffy TV, I am joined by John Blade, Chairman of the Shareholders Association and a third of the Everton Business Matters podcast. He's the best one, he's my favourite one. I do like Roger and I do like Paul, but John's the man. John's like, John's like, no, no, but you're. Roger's one way, Paul's the other and you're the man staying in the middle. Paul and the man. Well, he's friend of the show and everything else in between and beyond that. But John, last time you were in, we did discuss the upcoming stadium stuff and we were hoping that some information would come out. You then went on holiday and while you were on holiday, this thing kicked off. So first things first, the way the stadium consultation has come about and the club's timeline, I suppose, for the next six months. Were you, when you first heard it, were you surprised? Was it what you expected or were you a little bit disappointed in terms of having this public consultation? We're not going to hear anything till the summer, then planning that with you. I think probably because I'd heard the phrasing public consultation and it brings connotations, doesn't it? And I think I said this on business matters, I wasn't surprised. I do think that there's line of sight now and certainly the last business matters where we had a really good interview with Richard, Richard Gagnon. He was obviously the right guy because all this comes under him, I guess, or the communications side of it and the community side certainly does. There's got marketing in it. So no, I'm not hugely surprised. I think inevitably it can be frustrating for people because we still get into, when are we going to see images? What's the capacity going to be? Because for Evertonians perhaps they're the two biggest things. What's the capacity and what's it going to look like? But for the public it's a lot more and it is a public consultation. And again, on business matters, inevitably that means the questions are quite simple, almost bland, aren't they? And half the questions are really about you, who are you, sort of thing. And that's to allow segmentation to take place and strong messages to go in the planning application. X% of this segment said this. So I'm not hugely surprised. I think one of the things that's important is that probably for the first time we have a timeline. An official timeline. Yeah, an official timeline. The club did the launch of the people's project. They then said that public consultation would start on a given date and it has, I guess today, I don't know if you've memorised it. But the battle wagon is out there somewhere. In one of the retail parks somewhere. That Liverpool one. Well there you go. So it's at Liverpool one, people should go there if they can. You get to see the boards and the messages and all that good stuff. You can do the survey and people should do the survey. I mean we've just been talking off camera haven't we? There's 30,000 season ticket holders at Everton and I can't imagine why every single one of them wouldn't do the survey. And then lots more people beyond that can do the survey. So you should get a really good sample size. But the bigger the sample size, the better. And there is a real opportunity for Evertonians to, even though it's a public consultation, which means it's open to the whole public, unlike the fan consultation which we did earlier in the year, we can still give our views and lay it on quite heavily I guess. And if the heavy view that people want to try and get across includes things like capacity, then take your opportunity. What do you say to people who are asking why is it a public? Why do we feel the need to have a public consultation? Because when people have asked me because we were at a meeting, I've tried to explain it to myself, but in terms of yourself, because people are wondering if this is a stadium for Everton, why does it have to go out to public consultation? I guess, I'm no planning expert. No, no. But from your understanding... The range for things to get built, let somebody else do all that bureaucratic process. People like Spurs did it, City did it when they built the academy, and I was sure our friends from the dark side thought they did it when they were building the Lego stand, but in a more brutal sort of way I guess. I guess the real question is not why are we doing a public consultation, but why are we going big on it? Because I think we're doing way above what we'd have to do to tick the boxes. And that's because we want to make sure that when we put the planning application in, and again, this is the way I'm choosing to articulate it, is we submit a planning application, which is fundamentally saying, can we build a stadium please? Maybe, I'll turn that off in a sec, maybe what we are trying to do indirectly is say, do you not say yes? We've covered all the bases, we've given everyone the opportunity to give us their view, we've shared the outcome of those views, and why would we not do this? When you've got citizens of our great city, in fact the wider city region saying they want this to happen, then politicians are going to struggle to say no. Will that also mean people or organisations like Historic England will struggle to say no, or UNESCO will struggle to say no, time will tell. But I think if you got to the far end of this, and you've submitted your application and someone suddenly said, well you haven't actually asked anybody, and so I think that's part of the reason. I also think we've had stadium failures in the past. It's like a measured over reaction, we're doing a hell of a lot more than we need to, and I think that's goodness, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the timescales. But you asked the question, why? Will Teresh's site, iconic place on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey, all the other things that are going to have to be done to enable it around infrastructure, roads, train stations, blah blah blah, then it's actually quite a big venture, which won't happen without the stadium, but the stadium won't happen unless there's, let's say, popular support for it. What do you say to people, you can leave it on, it doesn't matter, what do you say to people who's fear, I suppose, is that it'll get, it's opening it up to criticism, I suppose, to where Everton, I suppose some people will think, if Everton just downplayed it a bit, he might be able to get past this bit without the disconcerning voices, I suppose. If you know your history, then the football club stuck its head in its, in the sand, for many a long while, while really good guys at places like, organisations like Keep Everton in our city, and this is going to get caught in, and it did. I would encourage anyone out there to come up with any goddamn reason or excuse you can why this shouldn't happen, fill the surveying, particularly our red friends, fill the surveying, tell people what you think, and let's get all the objections out as soon as possible, because if the objections are genuine and can't be overcome, it won't happen. If they can be overcome, it might or will happen, but getting told a deal breaker at 23.59 is not really what you want. I think what's really important for the football club is that we do these two weeks, and we're into the two weeks already, is to make sure that the messaging and the communications continues, that it doesn't go into a radio silence, then they suddenly pop up next summer and say, and I'm sure they'll do focus groupie type things in the background and so on, but again, as Richard said in that interview, we will inform fans and the public as we go down track, and if we say we're going to do something on a certain date and we can't, we'll explain why not, and I think that's them, Lynn, and the lessons of the recent past when we've had, well, until this, we've had silence, haven't we, since Dan Meese and the like, did the stuff at St Luke's? So it's a venture that can make a massive difference to the city and really make that Liverpool waters promise, which has been a promise for quite a long time now, something real. What do you make of the actual, the process I suppose, the fact, obviously it's available online, so there's no excuse if you're never so only living wherever, you can fill it in, you should be filling it in, even if you're never so, we've got American viewers, Australian viewers, you're a blue, with a view, fill it in, blue with a view, I like that one, fill it in, what do you make of the actual, the process of, you know, in terms of the questions? Oh, the questions themselves? I mean, I guess, a large percentage of the people who watch your stuff, hopefully have seen it already, the questionnaire or the survey, whatever you want to call it. Inevitably, as I said before, they're simple, you know, is it a good idea to stay in the city of Liverpool? Is it a good idea to stay in North Liverpool? Are you an epitonian? You know, that sort of stuff. The real key, I think, is when you get a bit of free format, and you get the opportunity, I think it's question six or something. There's one question where you can get all, you know, what's his name, the guy who wants the small boat, yeah? Yeah, Jeff. Question six is your question, Jeff. Bring the small boats up. Yeah, and what have you. And there's a serious element to that as well, because there's a whole host of things beyond just the stadium, what it looks like, and it's capacity, isn't there? There's things to do with how will it be branded, how will it be lit, what sort of concessions are going to be there from a food restaurant, what about transportation, what about this, what about that, what about the other. And that free form question is really, you know, the football club's going big on having quite a wide and far-reaching public consultation. And question six is the opportunity for the people doing the survey to go big on their real thoughts and views and what have you. I think the club will probably need to explain how they're going to address that free format stuff, because the tick box stuff is easy to analyze and how they're going to ensure that both popular and unpopular views are fully measured. But that's the big one. And that's one that needs thought. I think people can do, you can do the questionnaire in two minutes if you just don't answer question six. But I think you're letting yourselves down and perhaps letting the whole project down. If you've got something to say and don't say it. Well, if you've got nothing to say, all of it. If you've got nothing to say, I'm happy with. Just making 61,087, something like that. Well, put that on question six. If you don't have any angst or you think the other questions have stated your position adequately enough, then that's fine. That's fine. I will be surprised, Evertonians being Evertonians, if that would be the case for many of them. If you can't be asked, that's not the right reason for not answering questions. Well, I suppose certainly my... I mean, I filled it in on day one. So did I? Down at the end of the day. So it was filled in there. And I think my thing with question six was literally I wanted to benefit the city. But I wanted to be the biggest capacity it can be for Everton Football Club to help the club move forward. And that was it. I didn't feel I needed to put anything else for the simple reason that I trust that they will have experts who will make it look the best and have enough food outlets make it, you know, benefit the surrounding area, which is the big thing. I think it's fantastic. It's going to supply us with jobs. It's going to bring more income into the city. I mean, I've seen people going, well, I've seen someone on Twitter, actually, last night going, how is it going to attract another million people to the city? A million and a half, isn't it? A million and a half, isn't it? Well, the key thing is if there's more seats available, then more people come in. So we're in there. That's first and foremost. It's one of the answers, isn't it? If Everton can only get 39,700 now over whatever it is into Goodersham Park, if you can all of a sudden get 55,000, say, yeah, and now I'm just saying, I'm just using that as an example, then you're 16,000 people up every matchday. But take that as an example, because you were sounding negative then, as if to you it's intuitive, I just think more people will come. But there's plenty of people out there who can do statistical analysis, who can live and breathe for it, and the like. And it's a reasonable question to say, you're making these assumptions about the uplift in income to the city, or the city region, and all those sorts of things. And numbers of tourists, whatever you want to call them. So why wouldn't you explain how you calculated the numbers? I'm sure it's pro-rated. Well, they probably will, but it's sample size as well, used with what Liverpool have generated, because their stadium's gone up from 44 to 52, or whatever it is, or 54, whatever days it is. It's jumped so that numbers increased, so the visitors have increased. If you've got... It's like anything. If you just want to do it, the most basic thing, to explain the most basic example, if I'm on a cruise ship and I dock in Sociedad, if you can dock in Sociedad, wherever, and rail Sociedad ar ar ôn, and I've got on the air for the day, I say to my missus, I've got a matter I can get at. Yeah, but that cruise ship, which is going to come into the new cruise terminal, and it's going to sail up the Merseys, and it's going to pass the glade, on the banks of the Royal Blue Merseys. Is that cruise ship coming because the stadium's there? No. And that's when you get into. If we're saying that this project will increase the number of tourists as a number. But people will want the people will come in. And all we need to know, if people need to know, is what assumptions have you driven to make that happen. And I don't know, because I've not asked the question, and I'm not the person who gets mega-hung up on it right now, but that's an objection that could come in a planning committee. If we're going big, which we are, in the benefits to the city, then we've got to convince the people who make the decisions to say, yeah or nay, that they believe that the benefits to the city are not just some fancy PowerPoint slide, but are really going to come, or at least to a point are really going to come. Of course, but again, it's with anything, isn't it? I always quote Sunderland, you know, 17,000 at Roker Park, Cuddon Shelley, moves to the stadium at like 47,000. I'm not talking about that. No, but that's people coming in, that's people coming in, business is coming in. To the city. To the city, so that then brings your business up. 10,000 extra seats, 19 games, it's not one and a half million. No, but what's it over? They could shave over the next 30 years, that's under 1.5 million. What happened to debate, aren't we? We don't know. No, we don't know. That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if you're basically looking at it, those key people that you just said and the people who are experts in their field and the statisticians and everything else have projected this figure. I'm just using it as, I haven't got all of that, I'm not a statistician in terms of who's coming into the city, but I'm just saying in a broad brushway, as you like to say, literally by just going increased capacity, different visitors into the city, all of a sudden that becomes a tourist attraction. Of course. To go to somewhere brand new on the banks of the Royal Blue Masy, next to a new bost, very terminal, as the city sprawls, as Tent Street grows, visitors come in, and it comes in attraction. And that's the point, and Liverpool waters, it makes the city centre bigger because it extends further. Of course it does. And alls we don't know right now is what assumptions are behind those claims. Yeah, yeah. So let's not guess. I will guess because this is what I'm wearing here for. But I pretty much can guarantee that when the planning application goes in, if those numbers are part of the application, then the evidence will be in it and how it's been calculated. It has to be, doesn't it? Of course. It has to be. Ultimately, this will bookend the above orders, increase the likelihood of the development taking place at all in between, increase the likelihood of it happening sooner, and all that's got to be good for the city. Of course. And the jobs, it generates because it's there, and there'll be things around it which the club isn't able to generate now where it is. So all of that is a massive, massive positive for me. Let's move on to, I suppose, the bug bay of the whole thing with a lot of people is the capacity. We know where your view is. I know that you want upwards of 60, don't you? 60, 80, 70, 80. So we do, and I'm in that camp as well, I want it more than 60, and that would be lovely. I'm of the opinion that the club know what the capacity is. I just feel as though. So I want to get your, because I know that you don't really, I don't think you believe you do know what the capacity is to you, but I think you do. I don't think, because I trust people until I've got a reason not to trust them. I don't think they've made a final decision. You know, as a guy whose day job can be submit proposals for because of the work and stuff, I can assure you at 3 o'clock in the morning when it's going to be submitted at 9am, it's still changing stuff. Now maybe a physical construction is slightly different. So I'm comfortable that they tell me they haven't made a final decision. But when the 52-55 number that Meshiri implied to me in a meeting in the summer has been in the mindset for quite a while, then it's likely to be that number, isn't it? That doesn't mean they've finally decided. Which goes back to question 6 again, really. That the public who are responding in the consultation, if they have a feeling about what they think the capacity should be, and all those other things we talked about before, which are a bit more detailed, then you can do with the other questions. Say so. Because when they, as a football club, get third parties and statistical experts and so on to come up with a view, a forecast of what attendances might be and therefore what capacity you need in the stadium, that's all based on assumptions. There has to be assumptions on there somewhere. And those assumptions come from historical attendances and so when you look at the third party they've done, they said we do all these fancy regression analysis and all that sort of stuff. If they're using assumptions around historical attendances, but how far have they gone back? Have they gone back to one goddess and had 78,000 people in it? Of course not. Have they gone back to the stars of the Premier League? Have they gone back to the last town we won some and so on and so forth? And clearly they overlay that then with things like, well, what happens when you have a new stadium anyway? Well, yes. Everybody knows new stadiums increase you know, attendances because of that feel good thing that it brings. But how do you compound that up? It's not just a new stadium. It's an iconic new stadium and it's not just an iconic new stadium. It's an iconic new stadium on the banks of the Royal Blue Mercy and it's not just one of those. It's a world heritage site which goes back to you and your tourists and so on. They won't have a model that addresses that. So they'll have to make assumptions. So in broad terms they can come up with a number that satisfies whatever the brief was that they gave. And I saw some dialogue as we all do on Twitter this morning about this and let's be honest there are loads of evidence found out there who think 52 is plenty. See this one say 45. And so for every person who wants it to be 60 or whatever there'll be someone who thinks 50 is enough. Some of those are damn good statisticians as well. Gavin. So those people are out there. So if you're out there right now and you have concerns that the capacity might be too big and it will compromise us and the atmosphere won't be what it should be because there'll be empty seats and all that rubbish go and do question 6 and say so. If you're the opposite who think of course we can fill 60, 1, 8, 7, 8 and will do for the majority of games and stop using the excuse of Stoke City on a wet shoes the night because of course it won't be full on those days. Stadium also has to accommodate not where we are but where we're going to be. And the nightmare scenario is that there's 20, 30, 40,000 Evertonians sitting on a waiting list who've got no chance of seeing the team live because the stadium's too small because then you get into is it expandable if it is expandable what it's going to cost what does that mean to ticket prices because the other lot are stalling increasing their stadium because their fans have said we won't pay the ticket prices and so you just price people out with ticket prices or you stop people going through lacking capacity and there's a sweet spot somewhere where the stadium shouldn't be smaller than a certain size and you've told me that based on what you've told me that must be around 55,000 so that becomes 55,000 should be the smallest that they're considering 52 then there'll be objective people who'll say 3,000 what distance does that make so you can easily go down a cascade it's all about ambition at the end of the day because me and Pett done this last week before we were talking about it in terms of capacities and stuff what about if Dammi said at 55 I can create this incredible stadium that's going to give you noise and it's intimidating it's right on top of the pitch without losing anything but if we go to 61 it's going to lose that like you know the proximity with the pitch it's going to lose the noise I think it's going to lose something it's going to lose the intimidation for the way it has to be built depends how much you value that what we'll get from the 6,000 or 7,000 7,000 is weird like it which is what it will be between 55 and 61 878 where would you stand on that if he said to you John 55 I can have it intimidating and it's going to be right on top of the pitch but the designs have to change for it to be 61 and it's not going to be the same we really get to the nub with it we have this conversation with all our mates don't we over a beer and stuff and we've certainly talked about it on business matters and the like it comes down to and Richard said that next summer we'll see images of the stadium before the application goes in we'll also know what the capacity is and the club will explain why the capacity is the capacity the one that gets used so often as a justification for a lower capacity as we won't fill it which I do not believe I fundamentally do not believe that we would not fill the mythical 61 878 if the reason for having a lower capacity is something else like what you just said so let's just pick some can't afford it it's the cost then it becomes a return on investment calculation and Paul's out there and I think he's done that one to death a thousand times and if you don't believe go and read his blogs where he'll do his damnedest to convince you that money shouldn't be the reason from an affordability point of view affordability if its atmosphere which is intangible its opinion we won't know till it's built whether he was right or wrong and I don't know how an architect would say well if the stadium is 55,000 people the atmosphere is going to be fantastic but it's 60, it won't be a man's design sucks it well even so I'm just looking for reasons on the shareholders association we have Tom Hughes who's very much into this sort of stuff and he could probably tell us just like that how many roses that the five thousand seats and so it's not huge so I don't know but yeah to answer your question if I got told frankly the atmosphere would be absolutely awesome 55,000 in and it would be crap with 60 then I'll say let's have 55,000 then but it's got to just the five why yeah and people like I was having a debate with somebody on Twitter again because of TV money and the like people again rightly or wrongly seduced into believing that the income from match day isn't that important well it is because of TV money price money for how far up the table you are the real differentiator between clubs at the moment is match day income player trading commercial performance all of which we as a football club know we've got rooms for improvement we often say we're hamstrung by Gooderson let it not be hamstrung a brand new mall and yet we can increase the number of premium price seats and the like but we also need to have a capacity that allows us to generate the income that we need to put assets on the field whilst not pricing out the next generations as the other lot are doing all day every day runs and runs doesn't it right to ask for a couple of questions of people for you so Ben and Ben on Twitter are you concerned that the club don't appear to have agreed on a design or capacity for the proposed brand new mall concerned that they don't appear to no not concerned because you do a right to left plan don't you and we have stated although it's the definition of when summer is that will submit a planning application next summer so the capacity and the design needs to be ready for that doesn't it and I don't think they've thrown away what they've done before I don't think everything Dan has done in the last year or two has gone on the fire so they're going to be adaptions of what he's already presented and it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that any architect is going to go to the board with you know you gave me a brief and here's two or three concepts that you might want to pick and if you get 10 Evertonians round a table I know not all the board members have evertonians but if you've got 10 Evertonians round a table they'd all have well I like that, well I like that one and that bit and so on so he goes away doesn't he and he revises it and I think that's what he's doing now I think he's got a modified brief around the stadium itself which no doubt will be a hybrid of what was in the stuff he did before and he'll come up with a new design but it will be recognised as well I guess as being similar to the ones he's already done so I'm not concerned at all now but what we need to see is evidence which we haven't seen previously that the club is doing what it says and not allowing things to slip so Richard no doubt someone will tell him about this we expect to see some communication don't we when this thing closes obviously there'll be standard stuff like thank you for doing it but it would be nice to hear things like how many people did it for example and then the things around capacity being a bit vague is saying people want it to be above 50 when we perhaps we want to know how many people said above 55 and how many said above 60 and so on so the degree of transparency will be interested but no now I'm not concerned Dave Parke 14 said the more I look at other clubs plans and how for example West Ham have seen a boost there's no reason why we shouldn't be going for 60 plus we've got 32,000 season tickets now and a waiting list as well that's a statement rather than a question now I know what I'm saying he thinks he could do we could easily do 60 are you off that opinion? absolutely the shareholders association have written to the chairman of football club expressing our formal view of what we would like the capacity of the stadium to be and clearly you won't be surprised to hear that it's in the 60 plus category and one of the things that we have said which anybody can say is the aspirational peer group that we have all have stadia currently bigger or plan to be bigger than the 52 to 55 that we think is the current working assumption for our stadium and I think I said it last time I was on your show last season the six above us infamous six or the big six they averaged 68,000 that was helped by Tottenham being it of course averaged 68,000 that's what Chelsea only have in the 42 whatever it is, 1000 capacity stadium so when you talk about ambition and Richard mentioned ambition again and yet we can get third parties to do analysis and so on but ultimately the board is going to have to make an informed decision but with a little bit of intuition as well and a little bit of risk and maybe the question to ask is if we had a 62,000 seater stadium could we price to fill it and if we did price to fill it would it provide an appropriate return on the additional investment necessary and I think yes, yes, yes and Paul, again the esk he's done this modelling more than once and if he's wrong people rubbish it but he's had it out there quite a while and no one's rubbish it so that then comes back round that loop again we are going to have a smaller stadium why and I for one will never accept the because we wouldn't fill a bigger one because it would be hard to know and other reasons like the one you called out around because the design is such that the atmosphere would be best slightly smaller whatever but please don't give me the we won't fill a stadium which Wolves will West Ham will Newcastle will whoever whoever whoever and that's before you talk about the city moving theirs up to 63 and so on I just don't believe it one from Cumbria and Trophy would they propose European breakaway league have an effect on our capacity of Bramley more could this be the reason why the stadium it seems the stadium plans have changed I don't think the stadium plans have changed that's just a transient thing that's going on this pops up every now and again doesn't it I mean do you think a super league can happen in Europe I don't I can say because only because I just think football knows now into its grade and these clubs are making the difference among some money already and they're still not happy we've just had a big upro and rightly so over skewed them the last thing he's done as outgoing you know say how over whatever he was at the Premier League on in the capacity consultant capacity was negotiate the international right differently sort of top six get more money than anybody else and 14 clubs apparently voted for that which blows my mind why you would vote for something to make you worse off the strength and the others so they still that isn't enough for them they're still looking at ways to increase more do you want more of the pie fact that that in with people like Paris Saint-Germain who were playing in a one team league anyway they're not going anywhere else they're not good enough for Europe because you have the plays to go there but they're too good for their own league and you buy me in a Waltz and the league and apparently go into their Spiegel and a drive in this bus so all over the play they're in Barcelona they take 55% of television right money anyway hence why it's very difficult for anyone else to try and play and now athletics are doing very well this season they're kind of the accept they're on the average 60% but they get a big thing so they're trying to bridge it slightly differently so it's all this greed and this greed so there's no sign of letting up so if you and this proposal whether it is or it isn't is we all get guaranteed 500 million each year for 20 years no relegation, no ready blast so to the clubs they're like where's the 500 million for all these clubs going to come from? and that's what the proposal is isn't it so you look and go you could see why it might be a stand me correct today and get it out no no that's good because I hope you know what the reason why we need the biggest stadium if it does well there'll be us in space going for the league so that'll be honest we have our own team you A4 are just going to even with their interesting style of management they're not going to sit on the sidelines no well the clubs have to leave don't they so what about players they no longer play for their countries and it's right to go out the window it becomes stale pick Arsenal, well done Arsenal you can't get relegated but you're bottom of your group every year and by the way every single away game part from the odd one is overseas somewhere and then pretty quickly they're not careful the problem with this Arsenal franchise is it should be in New York so it's sabre outling at a European level but of course sabre outling at an English level created the Premier League in the first place I did mention it but I just don't think it's going to happen and I certainly don't think we stall short term decisions, we're talking about decisions here that's less than a year away on the back of something that may happen even if it does may happen it will happen way down the line because they are members of a club still 2020 still it's a time to kick off exactly right, so if they want to go and run then let them personally you can get on to the conversation about would you want to be in a European league it's great to say you're playing Barcelona but isn't the excitement, it doesn't happen all the time and that very American I don't know whether this is driven by American owners of Premier League let's not do relegation what's that all about what's the point football without fans is nothing well I suppose the red man they don't want it and Tottenham feeling left out that's fair, that's the way it is because it's money isn't it unfortunately so anyway to answer the question now I don't think we're making decisions here and now on the chances that something may or may not happen way past the date when we have to make our own decisions before you went away we were talking about when this stadium would hopefully be kicking off and we were hopeful it would be it may be 2022 but we did say it could be 2023 just given by Alon we knew that it was behind the project was behind a few months anyway so that pushed different 22 to 23 but are you confident it can be delivered in 23 if anything runs the way it should do yeah this is the short answer well yeah Rodger and the reason I bring it up because when Rodger was on him and his dad Doug he was brilliant they were talking they were talking 24 25 based on just because I think at the time it was 23 24 but I think when the time scale of the consultation and the people's project came out I don't think Rodger was too enamoured by it pushed it back it's how long is the piece of string at the end of the day when I asked Richard that question he's quite right I mean the club will have a planning assumption of how long planning approval is going to take to get and heaven forbid it just becomes elongated and gets all very messy called in public inquiries and God knows what else so there is a part of the project which you just don't know how long it's going to last which is that we've submitted the application when we're going to get the answer back but the rest of it has got contingency as far as I'm concerned three years to build it six months before you start building and those sorts of things so that's not a sunny day plan that's got contingency in it and I think I've said to people there's clearly potential that the removal comes sooner rather than later for it to be ready perhaps after 2022 season started but not long after it and therefore there is I guess a potential that we go into a new stadium partway through a season so who knows and that's where it's helpful that Spurs are knocking down all these barriers as to whether you can or can't play in multiple stadiums in the same season and because certainly when we started this journey we would have always assumed we have to do it the boundary of the season starting what would you prefer us to start the season as a fresh in a new stadium or if they said well it'll be ready in January and we'll go I mean this is obviously just a question of personal choice flying a kite in it it depends doesn't it if we have a for example my answer is slightly different if we have a mid-season break of course if you start the second half of the season in a new stadium it's not as disruptive as you know so traditionally starting on that summer's day in August would be the right answer wouldn't it and maybe that gives us the contingency that Spurs wished they had I mean I personally would just do it in August 2023 it's definitely going to happen on that date in the summer and off we go and you know what the toilet is leaking and then just get all of that done and do all your tests and what we would expect then is once the build starts we may find things on the site which we haven't found yet and so on we'd get ahead of time wouldn't we yeah of course because it keeps going then I'm sure we can find other things to do in it if it's ready we'll see we'll have a couple of games we'll see what it's like semi-finals have I picked up well no we want to play in the first we want to play first that's what I said semi-finals have I picked up that's it the only unless there's anything else you want to bring up about it it's on your list we've ticked it up and started so the process is ongoing it's vitally important that you fill it in honestly if you're a non-editonian what's in this because some of you do especially so if you are aneditonian just because you're not a seasoned ticker just because you do not live in the city just because you might not even live in the country shouldn't stop you having an opinion on this whole process go online you've got an email address you can fill it in go and answer the questions particularly question 6 if that's the one that if that's where you get your opportunity any concerns or any things because if people have not seen it so far maybe they haven't all the other questions you just get asked what age group are you in are you a seasoned ticker question 6 is the one where you get to give your very personalised response it's not a personalised response it's a good list it is why we were down there last time Ronnie you're sure you're with Ronnie how's the book going it's in the stores now and it's online as well and I think fanatics were asking him to bring more books so they must be selling them and he's doing a grain sharp thing as well so we'll go to Health Truth Sports website and you can do that stuff and Crimbo books that's a good spot on Stephanie sorry Ronnie fill the survey just do it we've got till the 1st of December so obviously we're into week 1 we started on Thursday it's at Liverpool 1 for the next couple of days but on the website it gives you if you want to personally go down if you can if you're able to go and have a look there's a lot of information in there people are lovely it takes a couple of minutes to fill the stuff in and you've done your bit and if you can't get there like I said go online and do it it's available for everybody if you're an Evertonian everybody should fill this in if you're a member of five blues in your family all five of them should fill it in I've made my family I've got three kids me misses all fill it in and that's what it's about it's about getting your points across regardless of it you might have a family member who goes I don't know I'm worried about this but fill it in and then the bigger the sample size then the opportunity is there to eradicate naysayers then and go a lot of people ask this question and there's the answer to that question yes we have thought about this that was brought up by X amount of people rather than like John Shreff before not doing it and then getting there and then questions come in and the club's trying to find answers to it you can be looking at answers now ahead of that planning planning application because when you're putting a planning application in you're trying to look at everything that can can be called upon can be questioned and you want to get it out the way and I think that's where this public consultation is important for the club to get them all out the way before the actual paper and encourage your redmates particularly to do it tell them to do it it's good for them as well it's good for the city overall isn't it it's never been great for the city so if it's a win-win there's no reason for you not to fill it in big thanks John for coming in and joining us and Roger will be back in so we'll get Roger's heart bounty a couple of weeks it'll be interesting if you're in as well so it should be a good game of tennis between the two and Paul can come in and we can pixelate his face of course the door is always open big thanks for watching if you haven't subscribed please do so only takes a second if you want more videos but more importantly fill in your public consultation form see you later