 just to ensure that we have everyone on the line um older person aclea here older person feldi here older woman donahue here older person decker here older person sorenson is here all right um for those in attendance please stand for the pledge of legions a pledge of legions to the flag of united states of america into the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay thanks everybody for joining us today we got a few things on the agenda um why don't we go around um it is since it's a new session we'll just kind of go around introduce staff members and folks that are in the public um and then those of that are online um so we'll just do a quick quick introduction of committee members and staff um my my name is ryan sorenson older person district eight um chairperson for this committee uh when we just kind of weave through the aisles here thank you everybody um moving along well is there a motion to approve the minutes from our april 15th meeting so there's been a motion is there a second second second all right there's been a second by was that older person donahue yep all righty any questions on our minutes from our previous meeting seeing none all those in favor please state aye hi chair person chairperson votes aye the minutes are approved moving along um 3.1 hearing to appeal of chad sheldon finding his dog to be a vicious animal pursuant to section 18-47 i-2 of the shabuigan municipal code city attorney should i turn it over to you yes okay so um just to for the committee members just to understand a little bit about how this will work um this is a hearing uh i will be representing the interests of the committee so i don't represent either the um police department or uh the appellant mr. Shelton police department is going to present its case and mr. Shelton will present his case the process that we recommend using and my understanding is will be used uh first this is an appeal um and that that is important because what that means is that the chief's determination is considered to be an initial determination uh so the first thing he'll do is just simply present that initial determination uh and the reasoning for it sort of in the form of an opening statement uh then we will give mr. Shelton the opportunity to present a brief opening statement again presenting his reasoning for contesting the determination and then we'll move to the hearing uh and the parties will present any evidence that they choose at that point um the police department will go first mr. Shelton will will go second and they'll be able to present any testimony any photos exhibits um etc and i'm sorry i i made one error it's actually mr. Shelton who's going to go first uh when it comes to the hearing portion of it because he is the appellant and he holds the burden of proof um the uh committee should be careful that as you listen to the evidence uh you should consider only evidence that's relevant uh to the question uh evidence is only relevant if it relates to whether the dog is actually vicious as defined in the ordinance and so in preparation for that i'll let you know what the the issue is uh whether the dog is the dog in question was vicious and pursuant to our ordinance the dog is vicious if it does any one of the following things first causes a serious injury to or kills a person or a domestic animal second causes an injury by biting a person in the face or neck third attacks a person in such a manner as to require defensive action to prevent bodily injury or property damage when that person is conducting him or herself peacefully and lawfully on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog fourth attacked a person in such a manner as to result in property damage or an injury to the person when that person is conducting him or herself peacefully and lawfully on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog and fifth uh attacked without provocation another animal or foul on property other than that of the owner of the attacking dog it is also considered vicious uh in a couple of other circumstances um if it's owned harbored or trained primarily or in part for the purpose of fighting if it's previously been found to be vicious in a trial on the charge of violating our vicious dog ordinance or it's been declared to be vicious in another municipality county or state but i don't think those are at issue uh today so i think it's going to be one of the first five once you've heard the matter uh you will be able to convene in closed session uh to deliberate uh although any action you choose to take will be taken in open session there is a closed session on the agenda as well as coming back into open session the rules of evidence uh don't apply in this case so hearsay is permitted however you should be careful to weigh all of the evidence from both sides as to whether it is believable truthful and relevant uh to the issue at hand so given that i think we'll start with the process uh first of just having the chief uh present sort of in the form of an opening statement the basis for his determination that the dog was considered vicious and what we'll do is we'll have question we'll always have one person at that microphone and if there are witnesses we'll have them at that microphone or if mr Shelton when he's asking questions chooses to use this microphone then his witness will be at the other microphone so chief you may proceed first good afternoon so the basis for this case is that on march fourth of 2020 um police department employees were dispatched to 1026 swift avenue to investigate a dog bite upon their arrival there they determined that an adult female Deborah Berry received a serious injury to her leg from a dog bite which consisted of basically a soft bull-sized avulsion or tearing to her thigh it was determined that the dog that was involved is a king corso dog that lives in the lower of that residence named uh cronus so cronus was deemed vicious based off of that and based off of the history that from 2015 up until this incident the dog has been involved in five other bites that's all i got okay uh then mr Shelton you at this point it's just uh an opportunity for you to sort of present sort of an opening statement as to why you're contesting it and then we'll get into the evidentiary portion after that um it's really quite simple i have two identical black dogs and they have incorrectly determined which dog had bit despite testimony from both my wife who was the person handling the dog at the time and myself who was inside with the other dogs at the time also cronus has not been involved in five bites that is um simply false i don't know where they're getting that from i would like to see what uh they have for that because cronus has only ever been involved in two bites one was a person breaking into my home and one was a person who was on my property and those are the only two bites cronus has ever been involved in everything else that has ever happened has been persephone as we have testified to stated to the police on multiple occasions i have called and tried to rectify this situation multiple times and been told that all i can do is come in and do things and i keep trying to explain to them that with my stage four metastatic colon cancer that it is very hard for me to arrange these kinds of things around my chemotherapy and just being sick in fact right now i feel as though i need to throw up because i just got off a chemotherapy again today okay is that your opening statement then yes sir okay so then you may uh you will proceed with your portion of the hearing with your evidence um you may call any witnesses including yourself um and it's up to you and who you call and when okay um yeah we'll we'll swear them in if once he calls them yep do you need me to be sworn in or so are you calling yourself as your first witness i i think i'll call myself as my first witness okay do you want to swear them in or i can do that yeah this is the fun part okay please raise your right hand do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god all right thank you please proceed all right um so since i'm the questioner and the witness i'm just gonna kind of talk instead of asking myself questions right um can you just speak up a little bit just so the folks online can hear is this better yep okay um i have kind of courses they are large powerful dogs that require specialized you know training to handle properly one of my dogs was sold as a puppy to a family that did not know how to handle her they returned her after about a year as an aggressive dog i have been working with her for the past two years to try and rehabilitate the aggression that she has developed and it has been a long hard road i have many thoughts about what i need to do about persephone but the bottom line is that it has not been cronus cronus is a good dog and if you would allow me to bring him in here you guys would all be able to pet him on his belly as several police officers have done so in the past in fact chief domigalski himself knows that i have taken the citizens police course and brought cronus with me where he interacted with many of the other citizens and police and has interacted with officers such as officer anger and several others on many occasions not a single time have they ever found him to be dangerous or vicious in any way shape or form cronus is a good dog and does not deserve to be in a shelter right now and deserves to be at home with his family where he is loved and cared for furthermore listening to mr adams describe the uh circumstances of being able to find a dog vicious none of my dogs have ever bitten anyone off of my property ever none of my dogs have ever killed another animal or attacked anyone off of our property there has never been an incident that was not responded to at 1026 swift avenue in fact on this last case the case that chief domigalski brought up march 4th 2020 they decided that somehow it was three of my dogs the two that look alike and another one that doesn't look anything like them that caused this one bite to this woman despite the fact that we told them that cronus was in bed with me at the time i woke up to a dog barking and then a scream i ran out to see that there were no dogs outside at the time however my wife melissa had been bringing persepony in at the time so it was easy to determine that it was persepony who must have done it since cronus was in bed with me therefore it would have been a physical impossibility for him to be out in the hall and have bitten somebody while simultaneously lying in bed with me think that's about all i have for my portion of my testimony if this is the time where i would be cross-examined yes so chief if you uh have any questions for mr shelton mr shelton can you tell me who lives with you on swift avenue yeah good okay repeat yourself please currently no one okay what about on march 4th no one um and can you describe the setup of of the residents there it's a two-story house with oh are you asking if there were tenants living there i'm sorry chief i'm not no you're fine okay i'm not trying to give dishonest testimony here yep no you're fine okay yeah no it's a two level house with one family downstairs and one family upstairs and and you're essentially the the manager of the property is that correct yes that would be a correct assessment of that okay and then do you have tenants upstairs yes i do sir and can you tell me who they are and they are demetria very and her children nobody else is supposed to be up there okay do you know um who debora berry might be that's her mother who has been staying there unlawfully despite the lease clearly stating that nobody else should be up there okay are you aware of whether debora berry was there on on the day that we're talking about and she must have been considering the fact that i had to help her get situated and all of that so okay can you tell me about what what happened that you had to help her i just did i was lying in bed with my dog cronus when i heard a bark and a scream and i ran outside to see melissa attending to debora and and where in the residence where they located in the back hall and um to tell me what happened then what what steps did you take to care for i applied a towel and pressure to the wound and called 911 so you personally called 911 uh someone was on the phone with 911 i made sure of that but you didn't call 911 i don't believe so do you know if melissa did it was either melissa or one of the tenants it was a very chaotic moment i was more concerned with making sure that there was not profusive bleeding and that everything was you know progressing towards getting her the medical care that she needed can you describe the injury to me it looked like a laceration i've seen dog bites before it looked like a dog bite would would you call it a serious injury or not i would say that the level of injury is very determinant upon your level of experience with things such as this but i would not classify it as a minor injury it was definitely moderate at a minimum i'm going to show you what smart this item 11 that was taken at the hospital and was not what it looked like when i initially saw it this is the first time i'm seeing this so yes i would describe that as a pretty severe injury and so you would identify that what's been marked as as item 11 as debaubary's leg yes yeah and you would say that that's a serious injury serious enough can can you describe to me essentially the exit of how people who were the tenants in the upper would get out of your residence they come down the stairs and through the back hall and so there's a common hallway there it's a common hallway do you have any rules for them about when they can exit their residents and when they can't yes yeah tell me about that we have made it very clear to them that if they see the back door open that we likely have the dogs out and that they just need to holler and let us know that they need to get through and we bring the dogs in so if somebody walks out of that back door on the second level can can they see from there whether the dogs are are in or out yes who so if the dogs are at the bottom of the stairway there they they can see clearly that the dogs are there they would know yes at all times yes in fact they've lived there for over a year and this is the only incident that happened because they did not follow the instructions are you aware of when the police were there investigating this incident any information that they found out about what happened a prior the day prior or two days prior no they tried to say something about someone else had been bit but there was never any evidence or case or anything we never like I don't know what that is all about because nobody was bit so I don't know so it's your testimony here right right now that I gotta find the right one a day or two prior that there wouldn't have been a woman that would have been up visiting them that would have left the residents and got bitten in the hand by one of your dogs not that I'm aware of I was not aware of any other bites and when the police when the police told me that they had heard that there was another bite just two days prior I told them that I was unaware of that and that I don't know what anyone is talking about so you never talked to the woman named Natalie no sir and you never sent her any text messages there were text messages what were the text messages for she was texting and sure what what was the conversation between you and her in the texts nothing about a dog did did you off did you pay her any money no sir you didn't pay her $20 not to call the police and report the incident no sir so I've given you what's been marked as item 16 and it's a screenshot of a text that says Chad on the top and and then the conversation that's present there is from one side it says I'm not mad Chad please don't be mad at me I didn't know and then there's a response that would be from Chad I am not mad I was freaked out because I was in the bath and thought it was Deborah who got bit at first which she knows better than to walk out with the door open and then the response from the person named Natalie who we've spoken to that provided this to us that said I'm so sorry I don't want to cause any problems and then a response from Chad no we are sorry and hope that the care and money helps set things right so are you saying you didn't send that or the other text messages that I have no sir no and and you do understand that the ordinance the way that it's spelled out if somebody is on their own property so if you have a tenant and they're in their residence or in a common hallway that is the only exit that wouldn't be on your property that would be common property that's open to the tenant and if your dog bit them in that area that wouldn't be covered by the ordinance it still doesn't make it cronus who bit that's not the question that I asked you well that's the only issue at stake today is whether or not cronus is vicious okay so when I ask you questions I'm going to ask that you respond to the question that I'm asking okay okay okay do you understand that that is common property and is not covered by the ordinance sure as long as we can agree that it wasn't cronus who bit yeah okay thank you so are you aware of any other dog bites that that the dogs have been involved let me back up once so tell me what you told the police on that initial day when they responded to Deborah getting bit I told them that cronus was in bed with me and so if I told you that that in the officers reports they very very clearly document that you said that you were in bed sleeping and heard someone screaming but didn't say anything about a dog being in bed with you then you would say that that's not true I am saying that he did not report it properly then because I very clearly stated that cronus was in bed with me which is what I have stated every single time I have talked to anyone at your department about this okay and if I told you that that the officer clearly has documented that you advised that you didn't know if it was one of your dogs that bit her that that that's the officer making a mistake again too I'm sorry can you repeat that that if the officer documented that you said that you didn't know who bit her and that you didn't believe that it was one of your dogs what I said was that when I woke up all of my dogs were in the house so all of your dogs were in the house so one of them didn't bite her that it was some other dog from down the street or something I was asleep and woke up to a dog bark and screaming I quickly looked around and saw all of my dogs in the house that is what I reported to the officer that is the truth of the matter I later found out that Melissa was bringing Persephone in so you're saying that you don't know which of your dogs bit though I do know which one bit because it was a black dog Melissa was bringing Persephone in and cronus was in bed with me ergo logically it must have been Persephone and were were any of your dogs licensed at this point no and had cronus previously been deemed as dangerous yes when you guys incorrectly reported that it was cronus who bit back in March of 2019 taking the word of a junkie prostitute over me and my wife and so when when that dog was deemed dangerous were there any steps that you were required to take by city ordinance I was never careful your dogs I was never told of any you weren't told of any okay so tell me about the other dog bites that that your dogs have been involved in it is really quite simple when I was living at another address off of 13 street a man tried to break into my home and cronus bit him there was another incident where my dog Rhea had bit the neighbor however they claimed that it was cronus who bit so you guys found it to be cronus who bit then okay hang on let's talk about let's talk about that once you're talking about in in 2015 I believe so you would have been living at may I sit down please would it have been may I sit down please you could pull a chair over and try to adjust the mic sure that would be fine so would you have been living at 1508 south 13th at that time yes sir and this would have been on july 28th 2015 do you think that sounds about right and your your neighbor would have been Edward fighter right yes 1506 south 13th street correct and can you describe what dog do you say it is that I'm sorry so sorry that's okay you know the the other option is if you want to adjourn this and try again in two weeks that might be better we can always do that absolutely not I am not leaving my dog in a shelter for another hour okay okay and and so it's it's your testimony here your question was whether or not I was testifying that it was Rhea who had bit which is what I had told the officers at the time and still contend to this day okay and what what color was Rhea can you describe Rhea Rhea is a tanish color known as long okay so Rhea's tan so if I told you that mr fighter said that um he was in the yard where he lives um and there were three dogs outside one was on a leash and two weren't one of the dogs he described as a large black male jumped on up on him and bit him in the right arm and that he had then gone to the hospital and received several stitches in the back of his right bicep bites would you agree that that's true I would agree that Cronus jumped however it was Rhea who bit and were you present there when it happened yes sir is there any is there any reason why the victim would say that it was the black dog that bit him and not the tan dog he was an older gentleman two dogs jumped at him he wasn't sure which dog had bit him and so he just saw the larger black dog I would assume what if I told you the officer went back to mr fighter um several times and each time he insisted that it was the large black dog and not the tan dog that jumped up on him and bit him I saw both of them jump and I saw Rhea bit I know what I saw and I would assume that it was a chaotic situation that was frightening for him so I don't blame him for not having the fact straight and was Melissa present then yes she was and did she tell you which dog that it was what if I told you that told you that she told the police that that she wasn't sure which one bit him it's possible that she said that and do you remember talking to officer Hubert see about this case not specifically no and so if if I told you that um if you look in what's been marked if you look at what's been marked as item five um in the third paragraph he documented that when he was talking to you um that you said that you were concerned because you were afraid that that he was going to take the dog away from you do you believe that that is something you would have said didn't I say that so so that's definitely a concern of yours that if your dog bites somebody that there's there's a possibility you you could lose that dog I believe that's probably the concern of any owner of a large powerful dog okay fair enough appreciate that I'm gonna then gonna try to draw your attention to 2018 and are you familiar with any any bites that your dogs would have been involved with in 2018 yes so are you familiar with one that may have occurred on December 2nd of 2018 when officer uh Retzer got sent to Memorial Medical Center to investigate an animal bite complaint with a party um by the name of Joseph Winkler who at that point was living at 1026 a swift so in the upper residence where you currently live correct tell me what you remember about that I remember that Melissa was walking the dog Joseph came around the corner even though the dog was on the leash that they were too close and that the dog jumped up and bit him and which dog was that I actually don't recall I would like to provide honest testimony but the chemotherapy affects my memory and I honestly don't remember that incident very well how well did Joseph know your dogs reacted with them okay if I told you that it was cronus would you agree with that or not I wouldn't agree with that the same as I wouldn't deny it because I want to provide honest testimony and I cannot recall at this time so would Melissa know which dog it was if she had it outside and it was on a leash are you asking me to testify for someone else's memory nope I'm asking you if you believe that Marissa said that she had cronus out on a leash that that's what it would be I don't if Melissa says who she had then I would say that she probably is correct okay if you if the dog that you quarantined regarding that bite was cronus would you agree with that again I do not remember the specifics of this case if I show you an animal bite quarantine that you brought back to the police department chief we don't need to waste time if you're telling me that it's cronus then I'm telling you I don't remember so what I need to do is make a record so that the older people that that are here can determine what the facts are and make a decision based on that so I'm going to show you what is what I'm marking as item 17 so item 17 is an animal quarantine form that shows that Chad Shelton took the dog cronus to the Sheboygan animal hospital to have it quarantined regarding the incident that we just discussed and then Chad my next question would be are you aware of another bite that happened 13 days after that on December 15th of 2018 where the victim was Joseph Winkler again this the same person no so you you don't remember at all two weeks after that Joseph Winkler again leaving his his residence and as he was walking out of the the residence cronus again ran up to him as he was walking to his car and latched on to his right arm and would not let go and then Melissa had to come running up out of the residence and pull the dog off of him that sounds a little far-fetched considering that I know my dogs and if cronus had latched on to someone and refused to let go they would be looking at major medical surgery and so as far as you're concerned at this point it just didn't happen I don't have any recollection of it happening I do recall Joseph Winkler being bit one time by one dog I do not remember the specifics although you have shown me that it was cronus who was quarantined so in those in those same reports that I left for you right there there's an item in there that's marked as item eight and it looks like this and it's the clothes with the holes in it from where the dog bites occurred those with holes in them yep and tearing in the clothes so that picture is right in that pile in front of you if you want to examine it but no medical record no police report yeah there's a police report it's in there and you're welcome to look at that and that one would be marked as are the pictures of the wounds as item it's not six as as item seven so that's the report that documents the second bite which occurred on December 15th of 2018 pictures of the wounds there aren't any pictures of any wounds for that one just the reports why so mr. Shelton at this point you'll have the opera opportunity to ask questions later but at this point you're answering questions from Chief Delmugalski I'm sorry okay then I would ask you if you remember a bite that one of your dogs was involved in on March 2nd of 2019 yep tell me what you remember about that I remember that Melissa was coming in with Persephone and Alyssa was hiding behind the door and so when Melissa went to close the door suddenly there was somebody standing there and my dog reacted do you know who was standing there Alyssa Alyssa and who's Alyssa a dead woman a dead woman at the time was was she your tenant upstairs for four days well for two days at that point and was had she left her her residence and was walking down the back stairs when when she got back behind the door why might she have been hiding I have no idea who would it could it possibly have been to get away from your dog she had been standing there since before Melissa opened the door so I don't know what she was doing were you present there with Melissa not at the exact moment so you weren't there when it happened I was at the house were you there where it happened and you could see what happened I was not in the hall okay thank you and and I would just ask that one person speak at a time and so in the packet are are what's been marked as items two three and four and so those are our pictures of two puncture wounds on on Alyssa's forearm a torn sleeve from a jacket that she was wearing and then three puncture wounds to her calf would would you agree that those are the injuries that Alyssa had I actually never was made aware of what the injuries were okay and would you agree that if you were a tenant living in the upper and these dogs were were downstairs and you had to be concerned every time that you tried to leave your residence of whether or not that you were going to get bit that that would create an unreasonable amount of fear no okay thank you tell me about your contact with officer hang when he tried to investigate that dog bite complaint officer hang was very exuberant in his desire to prosecute this case so much so to the point that he would pound on my door for 15 minutes at a time multiple times a day I caught him peaking in my living room windows I told him on several occasions that I had no desire to speak to him despite that fact he continued to try and disrupt my home life as much as possible for weeks at a time until I finally had to speak to one of your captains and tell them that I was considering filing a harassment lawsuit at this point and and so the question that I would ask you is if if you get bit by a dog do you believe that it's reasonable that the police would try to investigate that to determine which dog is involved I believe that officer hangs response was not only unreasonable but unlawful my my windows is a violation of my right to privacy my question is do you believe it that it's reasonable for the police to investigate when a dog bites someone I believe that it is reasonable for the police to investigate up to the point of the law but once you begin to violate someone's right to privacy that you have exceeded your authority and are unlawfully and unreasonably attempting to harass someone can so can you describe for for me and for the older people then what what is reasonable for them to investigate what what do you mean by that what's allowed by the law chief domogowski you know full well that you and all of your captains lieutenants sergeants have my number well on hand and that you guys can get a hold of me at any time and have many times you guys could have called me spoken to me you could have let me know that an officer was coming by at a certain time pounding on my door day and night not showing any respect for the fact that you're riling up my dogs that is not reasonable so the incident that we're talking about occurred on march seconds in the evening at about 9 30 and if officer hang called you on the next day on march third at 6 30 and talked to you on the phone and asked you if he could come over and talk to you about it and you told him that he could and then when he arrived at 7 15 you told him that you didn't have time and that he should try again do you believe that his effort to call you and then come over is reasonable or not i believe that i told him that if he was able to come right then that i would be able to talk to him 45 minutes later i was no longer available okay and so again do you think it's reasonable that that the police department would want to know because they're required by state law to investigate these incidents to know what dog is involved so that they can do any follow-up that they need to going forward from that he had been told which dogs were involved so he was told when which dogs were involved on the second or on the third i believe on the third when i talked to him on the phone do you know if he tried to make contact with you on march fourth to talk to you about this as i said he continued continued to try to attempt to make contact with me up until the point of violating my right to privacy by peeking in my living room window so if i told you that the report said that he tried on the third and you told him to come over and then sent them away then he called you twice on the fourth and you didn't answer so he drove by your house and he saw your car there and so he knocked on the door to to try to talk to you about this you would say that that's unreasonable that three days after it happened that you're still not talking to him i have no comment on the reasonableness of that my only comment is on the unlawfulness of peeking in my living room window that's all i have so mr shelton uh do you have any uh redirect in basically any testimony that you would like to give at this point redirect means that it is on any issue that's been brought up during the uh during the cross examination i would just like to point out that it is highly unusual that there are no pictures of any of the wounds for the other two supposed victims do you have any other witnesses that you'd like to call at this point mr shelton yes i do okay who would you like to call at this point i would like to call officer hang okay officer hang you can go up to the uh mic you should sort of meant it you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god i do thank you officer hang are you familiar with elissa ruta's criminal record not all of it what parts of it are you familiar with um the first time i entered was with your dog and then there's a one on the time we ran into her um it was a medical call are you aware that she has been arrested for prostitution i am not are you aware that she has had multiple drug issues throughout her life if i could recall probably one or two i don't know her whole history like i told you but she were aware that she was on drugs i can't say she was on drugs because i mean every time i make contact with her it was i can't determine she was on drugs so what in your police experience led you to take her word over the word of myself and my wife she said she was able to distinguish between your four dogs have you seen my dogs i have seen now you have five dogs i believe i have four dogs currently but well have you seen my dogs i have not seen um cronies you have not seen cronies no not even when the officers came by to take pictures take pictures of what of my dogs when was that during this last instance no i was not there with the last incident would you say that telling the difference between two identical black dogs in the night would be difficult to do i don't recall what time it was when the dog bite happened what's that i don't recall what time the dog bite occurred fair enough no further questions oh wait one question do you recall when you walked around to the side of my house and looked in my window so i knocked on your front door and i know that the back door is where the common area is between the officers and bouncers and you have and you have a door back there too i just happened to be walking for walking back to my car and i noticed that your window was open and i was talking in the door and you went and you stopped and looked in my window and began to talk to me yes and do you believe that that is within your lawful right like i said i was just walking on the side of your house and then i saw you because i was trying to make contact with uh quarantine your dog are you familiar with the right to privacy yes so do i have a right to privacy in my living room yeah so that would include having officers not look into my window and attempt to engage me in conversation i didn't intentionally look into your room like i said i was just walking back to my squad from a back and intentionally or not i could have been in there fully nude doing whatever i wanted to do because it is my living room and i have a right to privacy yes but then you're trying to also violated that your your tenant also lives upstairs and like i said i was trying to make contact with you at the front and at the back and i just happened to accidentally glancing over into my window is one thing stopping and looking in my window and attempting to engage me in conversation is another would you agree with that sorry repeat that accidentally walking past and glancing in my window is one thing stopping and looking in and attempting to engage me in conversation is quite another wouldn't you agree with that not necessarily it's not like i intentionally look through your window it's okay for me to come to your house look in your window and engage you or your family in a conversation so there's been an objection as to relevance mr. Shelton do you uh wish to respond to that yes i do the relevance is that they are trying to paint it as though i was unwilling to talk to the police the simple fact of the matter is that officer hangs relentless and unlawful pursuit of talking to me is what caused any issues with wanting to talk to the police well let me ask you this the the relevant issue here is whether or not your dog is vicious how is this question relevant to whether or not your dog is vicious um they're trying to say that they determined cronus was vicious because i would not talk to them i am simply pointing out how this came to be mr chair you have the you have the ability to make the ruling as to whether it's a relevant testimony um my advice in this particular situation is that because it is not directly relevant to the issue of whether or not the dog was vicious that i don't believe that it is objection leading the older person to a conclusion i think i think we're going down a rabbit hole here and i don't see the relevance to it so if you want to wrap it up that'd be great to this point otherwise we can keep moving along with questions yeah i mean i don't know what that was but completely object to mr. Adams trying to give the older person a determination of what he should decide here no further questions uh for cross examination chief do you have any questions in your professional opinion does elissa have any motive that's connected to her record or possible record of prostitution or drug use that would cause her to lie about which dog bit her no um from from what do you know about the case do you believe that it would make any difference to melissa one way or another which which dog bitter is there a reason for her to lie about which dog bitter no that's it the question isn't about whether she would lie about it the question is whether or not she would know which dog do you have a question mr. Shelton not for officer i would like to call my next witness okay so officer hang you may be seated and who is your next witness melissa shelton okay melissa shelton if you would uh go up to the microphone up there please raise your right hand do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god thank you please proceed melissa do you recall the incident with ed the upstairs neighbor at 1508 south 13th street vaguely yes what two dogs were off the leash cronis and ria and from what you saw which dog bit ed ria bit ed not upper shoulder and you can tell this because cronis jumped at his front and ria came around behind him yes yeah i came out of his side and so therefore for him to have a bite on the back of his arm it could not have come from the front where cronis jumped correct melissa do you recall the incident on uh crap what did they say march 2nd of 2019 with elissa yes i recall that one can you describe what happened please i had taken persephone outside on the leash took use the bathroom before i was sleeping for work this was probably about 8 p.m um when i came back in and went to close the door elissa was behind the door i did not even know she was at the residence as she wasn't moving in for another couple of days and what happened uh persephone jumped at elissa i pulled persephone off because i had the leash and i took persephone in the house where was cronis at this time cronis was with the other dogs in the house i had only taken persephone out because the other dogs have been had been out prior to that how long have you known cronis and persephone uh cronis since he was about six months old and persephone i've known her her entire life so years yes how long had elissa known the dogs uh i don't think elissa had met any of the dogs which i know that you suggest that any tenants that we have meet our dogs so it is your testimony that elissa did not know any of our dogs let alone which of the two identical black dogs was outside correct do you recall the incident on march fourth 2020 with debora berry yes i do can you describe what happened i was coming back from running errands and going to the grocery store i had persephone with me in the vehicle i carried in groceries and brought persephone into the back common hallway and persephone ran up the through the open doorway um to the stairwell for the tenants upstairs and i heard someone scream and then i called persephone back down and put her in the house and then went to see what happened and it was debora on the stairs so i came inside i informed you that uh she got bit and i got a towel to for you to take to apply pressure do you know where cronis was at the time uh in the house somewhere again it was a situation where i only had persephone with me and again to reiterate you would know which black dog you had with you since you have spent the majority of their lives with them which is years as opposed to the victims who had known the dogs very little if at all correct have you been at no further questions chief do you have any uh cross examination questions melissa regarding the the march fourth one where where debora got bit did you tell the police that persifony is the dog that ran up and bit debora at the time i did not uh give a statement to the police about it because the prior incident with alissa i did give a statement informing them that it was persifony that jumped at alissa i did not know about the bite until afterwards sometime afterwards i just thought she jumped at her with alissa with alissa talking about yeah and persifony was with me with debora and it was persifony that jumped at debora and bit her and we tried to contact the police and got towels and i grabbed first aid stuff for debora because she had been bit and is there a reason that you didn't tell the police that that night that it was persifony that had because the last time i had made the statement that it was persifony they deemed it was cronies and so what do you feel how do you feel that the the tenants living upstairs would would feel knowing that they have this risk of getting bit every time that they walk out their door to try to leave their residents it's actually kind of a surprise to me because um even debora and other people that came to visit the tenants when they were coming and going all would either open up the back upstairs door and holler or ask if it was clear or stand in the hallway and be like can i come or go or do you think just asking if the dogs were out and i made it clear to them that you know i would yell clear if it was clear and i would say wait and then take the dogs in the house if they were out sure do you think it's reasonable that they should have to do that or is it you and chad's responsibility as dog owners to to make sure that the dogs are secure and the tenants can can enter and leave their residents with without any fear of any of this objection we have no idea what the tenant schedule is and the dogs have to be let outside to use the bathroom that is a completely unreasonable request for us to always have the dogs put away whenever the tenants need to come or go so you're objecting to a question but it appears to be that what you're really objecting to is is the answer to the question is there a is there a relevance basis to your question yes as i just said we have no idea what the tenant schedule is and to ask us to never have our dogs outside to use the bathroom because the tenants might be coming or going is completely unreasonable so again alderman sorenson you have the chair so you get to make the decision on on the objection here ostensibly it's an objection as to relevance i believe it's relevant chief please proceed what was the question again you don't have to answer him do you believe it's it's reasonable that that the tenants should have to that they shouldn't be able to freely come and go is it your recent yeah let me rephrase it is it your responsibility as dog owners to control the dogs so that the tenants don't have to worry about them i'm not sure how to answer that all the tenant agreement stock chat handles since i moved like three years ago but i come back and help because he's got cancer thank you do you have any redirect mr shelton for uh melissa shelton uh yes melissa when you informed the officer officer hang that it was persepony who bit alissa what was his response uh he asked me if i was sure and i said yeah because i watched her pee right before i take her back in and what did he find uh to my knowledge they came to the conclusion that cronus bit alissa despite the fact that both you and i testified that it was persepony and only one person who did not know the dog testified that it was cronus correct thank you no further questions melissa you may have a seat mr shelton do you have any other witnesses you wish to call i'm sorry i'm thinking for a moment that's fine no i believe that is all okay so you rest your case at this point is that correct i still have a closing statement yes you will have a closing statement then yes okay uh chief then the case is yours uh if you want to call any witnesses uh no so at this point i would make a motion to withdraw um our designation of cronus as a vicious dog um and then we'll be just moving forward based on the testimony today and declaring persepony as a vicious animal and then we'll be um following through with the designation of cronus as a dangerous dog and making sure that chad follows the ordinance and puts in the the things that he has to put in place in order to get cronus back okay so uh based on that the chief has withdrawn uh the determination uh that uh cronus is a um vicious dog and we don't need to take any further testimony at this point so and there's no need to go into closed session either so uh mr shelton you understand that what the chief has done is withdrawn uh the finding that uh uh cronus is vicious um he's indicated that he will follow through with a finding of viciousness for persepony and as i understand that there already has been a finding that uh cronus is dangerous so that remains in in effect thank you you're free to stay or go whatever you want to do do we have to vote on this then there's not no he's withdrawn it so um you can move on to your next item okay okay all right seeing that um we've concluded the hearing um we will skip over closed session and we'll move right into 6.1 quarterly reports um building inspection thank you alderman sorenson uh in your packet there is a the quarterly report for the building inspection um department and i guess what i would like to say is that although we're in the middle of a pandemic um our revenues in the department are only about 40 000 behind uh where we were a year ago um so the if you look at the report the the big difference is everything the number of permits is obviously higher they're at a lesser cost than what they were in prior years we still collect permits we have a number of people that are putting them in the city's dropbox mailing them to us building inspectors are meeting them outside getting them so we're still operational we've done an online portal to allow people to submit the easier ones online so we're still um of service to people that are pulling permits um the winter season as we know dragged out for just a little bit with the snow in march so that's kind of hindered the that's kind of hindered the um people from being able to come in but all in all i would say we're on track for hitting what was projected in the budget and i don't see any real concerns as it relates to revenues on the building inspection site um on the regular uh the inspection side the number of inspections is lower because we have not started until um the until stuff is starting to green up our baselines that we do for four neighborhoods as part of the strategic plan that's underway now so the guys are out there and and the police department beat officers and city development staff are walking property to property so we're working on those four neighborhoods two on the north side two on the south side but the rest of the stuff is on track for meeting the goals the only difference i would say is we're down one building inspector we're trying to recruit a full-time building inspector it's proven to be very difficult we've got a retirement effective may 1st of a 30 year old 30 year employee and um so we are running with one building inspector through the entire city so um yes there's a lot of work and and we're hoping to recruit as soon as we can so i'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have any questions from any elders online seeing none um is there a motion to accept the report of discussion only never mind moving along um city attorney's office chuck so uh i did attach both in board docs and on the recommendations that those physically present have um our quarterly performance report uh you'll note that we've added a few new categories of things that we're tracking including insurance claims and parking tickets council documents processed and contracts renewed those numbers are there for your review and if you have any questions about them i can answer them okay any questions first the city attorney's office seeing none that is just discussion only moving along um 3.6 the we'll come back to chief domigowski um 3.6.4 discussion regarding capital improvements project okay police department we'll come back to the chief um go to the fire chief then 6.5 okay thank you so the quarterly or the annual report was done uh a few months ago and and i apologize i didn't know i was supposed to bring it to the committee so here it is uh it was attached to the you should have a copy of it just some highlights real quick we were able to purchase a van for the fire inspector program we picked also purchased a pickup as our new command vehicle for the shift commander and a aerial platform that we have in service so thank you if you have any questions please let me know we'll do 6.6 as well our own number oh that one we have to vote on you do have to all those in favor of accepting the annual report or is there a motion to accept the annual report there's been a motion by older decker is there a second second by older person ackley any discussion or comments for the chief regarding the annual report seeing none all those in favor please state aye aye chairperson votes aye that is a plea thank you chief while you're up there we'll jump to 6.6 r o number 184 1920 um the quarterly report for 2020 okay thank you yeah the quarterly report we do have a couple new items in there um real quick we're about just because of covid uh about one percent one and a half percent less per call volume than we were at this time last year but that's normal uh just with the circumstances surrounding us uh we do have a new uh section in there with the under fire loss and i just need to explain it so everybody understands what it means so when we have a pre-incident value of building so in this quarter we had 15 incidents and that pre-incident value is a total over three million three point six million so that is for the entire building so when there's a fire even if it's an apartment complex if there's a fire in that building in one unit that entire building is is taken into consideration as a pre-incident value so that's why it's so high compared to what the loss is which is a total of about 237 thousand so for those 15 incidents that we had in this quarter we lost uh due to the fire 237 thousand dollars worth of damage but the values were over three million does that make sense yep okay so other than that the reports in there for your review if you have any questions um please let me know is there motion to accept the report motion to accept there's been a motion by elder decker is there a second second there's been a second any discussion seeing none all those in favor please state aye aye chairperson votes aye that is approved thank you chief thank you um six point seven capital improvements projects for the fire department okay thank you uh so we are asking for um with the packet you have is is there so we we just asked for a few items each year three items each year and and real quick we're we're requesting an engine uh in 2021 uh education equipment and the phase the largest part of it is the phase one two and three for station three which is our headquarters station which they're doing some major uh mechanical and maintenance repair on the exterior of the building so just need approval to proceed i don't know if you want me to go through every single year i will be glad to um totally up to you i'm on the capital improvements commission so i heard i i don't know if any of the alders listening if they want me to go over some of the large details i'll be glad to anyone not for me okay that's just discussion only so we'll jump back up to um thank you chief thank you that uh we'll jump back up to three point or six point three our own number 185 1920 uh by the police chief submitting the quarterly report chief uh before i get started i just want to say thank you to everybody for your patience i know that was um difficult to say the least but um it's been a very difficult investigation over the last couple years and based on the the size of the dogs that mr. Shelton keeps in the increasing level of damage that's happening to people i think it's important that we get to the bottom of it and this i think helped do that so i appreciate your yeah i appreciate the work that you and your team have done on that too and thank you fire chief for grabbing the the receptacle and everything else so um and then kathy um barb felly isn't no longer in the meeting her power went out so oh i saw a flash yeah about five minutes ago yeah okay she she texted me so betty and mary linner's still on so okay so the the highlights for the quarterly report uh part one crime there was what's most notable a reduction in violent crime for the period um 20 violent crimes uh versus 43 in 2019 um so we're making some progress there that's continuing up to the date too so i think that the quarter that we're talking about not much of it is covid related um past that i think what we're seeing will be covid related but it's good at least for that first quarter to see that positive result um traffic accidents were also down 360 verse 467 so there's about two weeks of covid in there so some of that is um but but most of it um is good reduction um so i think that's a positive thing and then before covid hit we got our um in-service training done so that's a positive thing so everybody got um at least 16 hours of training and um one of the things that we did was a capital project from last year that we finished up the replacement of our pistol so everybody got to transition and qualify with the new handguns and then we were very timely in that we had just updated all of our personal protective equipment in our squads and so we had gone over all of the equipment that's available there face mask um cleaning supplies gloves masks all of that kind of stuff so it was it's just really good that it was timely and and we were ahead of the game and had inventory on stock so that was helpful and then chuck and his team um and corporation council helped us with legal update and that was um done very well and i appreciate that and then lastly we did some updates on defense and arrest tactics um you know the other thing that that i would mention is um open records requests again can continue to rise and a lot of that is uh related to the to the digital evidence that that we deal with in the amount of digital information that's out there so that's something that we're gonna constantly be fighting so those are the highlights if anybody has any specific questions i would be willing to answer those any questions um another note it looks like betty's power just went out as well too so mary lindon he was still on the line so we still have a quorum um so mary lindon i'm here don't don't let your power go out we're wrapping it up i'm here for 540 okay we'll be done by then um is there a motion to accept report there's been a motion to accept is there a second second there's been a motion in a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor please state i i chair votes i that is approved thanks chief 6.4 capital improvements projects for the police department uh so our capital improvement projects really um except for one project in 2021 which is the replacement of our computers and our squads the computers are currently five years old um so next year when we replace them they'll be six years old um five years is considered uh end of life by the it department so we stretch that it was a 2020 project that got moved to 2021 to kind of smooth out the dollars that were being borrowed um so the rest of the program all the way through 25 is our vehicle replacement and essentially what what we do is our 14 main squads that are used um 24 hours a day get replaced every four years previously um they were on a three-year replacement plan we switched over from three to four years about eight years ago and then all our other vehicles get replaced on a 10-year replacement plan um so that really lays out um the rest of the program it's all replacement of vehicles and smoothed out so that the dollars are consistent every year which was Daryl's request thanks chief any questions for the police chief all right that was discussion only um we'll jump down to 6.8 discussion regarding liquor license renewal fees um this this is just um an item that i asked to be included on the agenda um i i had a few bar owners reach out and i believe other elders did too just about some bars and taverns that only provide alcohol um they don't have food so they're not able to sustain themselves through this time um chuck do you just want to kind of give a an update about what what the city could do and i know that there's a lot of changes that the state would have to make to even allow us to come up with some flexibility right so um as far as uh waving the fees or even allowing them to be delayed would take legislative action by the state legislature we cannot do that on our own uh it's the one thing that really we have the capability of doing if we so choose would be to reduce the fees so in um a number of our fees are set that so this the state sets a range for a number of the fees where there is a range we we charge the maximum fee so there are a couple of fees where we could conceivably change our ordinance to reduce the fee now that would have to be across the board it would not be only to bars that don't serve food it would have to be across the board to all members of that particular class that is something that can be considered um obviously there are knock-on effects and i'm sure that's why meredith is here to talk about that because if you do reduce that fee even if you do it for one year that is a revenue source for the clerk's department and um you are probably certainly aware that that um this has been an expensive year for the clerk's office because of elections and will likely continue to be um so there is there is a connection between those two issues meredith do you want to say anything or add anything or you should go to a mic if you do just curious want your input well and i just have the we're already seeing some decrease i think when we went through it because we were looking at our revenues for beverage operators were already like thirty eight hundred dollars less than what we were last year which should pick up should the safer at home order and things open up again the league did send out the minimums and maximums for the different class licenses that i have a copy of as well if you wanted to see what the minimums and maximums are we have not we've only heard from maybe one bar in our office okay so far but what we've been doing right now is paying the twenty seven to get this process started so they can start their renewal and then paying the balance of that at the end of june when they would pick up their license so that's what we're doing right now would there be there's we can't do anything sort of like reducing the fee just for the time that you know let's say like the safer at home order is in or would it have to be like for a whole year or what would that it's a it's a license fee so it's it's a fee for each year so you could reduce it for the twenty twenty license but that's would be the reduction okay the the other thing you know i i did forget to mention that that's the other thing that they've done and we do have the ability to do that which is basically to only charge the initial fee at the time of application and normally we would charge the entire fee but at this point they could the the license can be granted based on the initial fee and then it would only be issued once they pay the remainder of the fee the issue that comes is if they pay that portion after july first there are some issues that come that that come along with continuity of business any other questions i juli do you want to juli went through the different classes what what licenses we have how many of each and what our revenue source is for each of those so right now we have 30 class a beer licenses so that's like your mini-marts okay those are charged two hundred and thirty dollars per year okay so right now that's about sixty nine hundred dollars the class a liquor licenses we have thirteen those are going to be your grocery stores your full liquor licenses those typically have the beer also so those are two two hundred thirty plus the five hundred so seven hundred and thirty annually so that one looks about nine thousand four hundred and ninety that we see annually we have twenty four um class b beer licenses so those are like your restaurants that only serve beer so again those are a hundred dollars a license and then we have twelve that um typically have a combination of a class b beer and then a class c wine license and that's another hundred dollars so between the two um it's thirty six hundred and then our big ones is the bars we have a hundred and twelve and uh those are six hundred dollars a piece so that's quite a substantial amount about sixty seven thousand so and then we have a publication fee and a background check that's also charged and then there's some other miscellaneous fees especially for the bars that have amusements but those can't be prorated or uh or not charged so what about the individual bartender license those are fifty seven dollars every two years okay any other questions thanks guys i appreciate it yeah okay moving along um next meeting date will be may 13th seeing that we've exhausted the agenda is there such motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second barb barb is back on okay all those in favor of adjourning please state aye aye chair votes aye we are adjourned at 531 thank you everyone