 That's missing from the board at this time. All right. Thank you. So we'll call the May 17th regular select board meeting order. John Quinn, Dave Sawyer, Bradtown, myself, Justin Lawrence here. Any additions or changes to the agenda, Vince? No, sir. Okay. Public comment. Hearing none. Diane Treasurer's report. Sorry, I was trying to unmute myself. Okay. The only thing I did today is I did put on the website, the conservation committee meeting this on Wednesday of this week. So just everybody know they're having a meeting at two o'clock on Wednesday and it put the agenda on. And otherwise anything else I have is in the agenda. And will that be a Zoom meeting? I'm thinking it is a Zoom meeting, but I did contact Phil Gentili and asked him to give me the information for the Zoom because he did not. I have it, Diane. I'm hosting it, Diane. I'll be I'll be running the meeting for that. Great. Okay. So once you give me that information, I'll put that on the website. Thank you. Hey, Vince, can you go ahead and mute everybody and then have them unmute if they're speaking? Give some instruction on how to do that. I certainly can give it a try. Thank you. There was a little bit of background noise. That's all I think everybody is muted except for you and Mr. Sawyer and me. Okay. I'm working on mute. Well, he nailed it midstream. That's perfect. All right. GMT transit proposal presentation. We have John at available. Hey, John. Yeah, good evening, everybody. Thanks for having us. I'm John Moran, the general manager of Green Mountain Transit and I'm joined by Matt Kimball, who's our capital projects manager. And we just wanted to quickly present a site selection study we have underway for a new maintenance and operation center in Washington County. As you may know, our current facility is actually in the town of Berlin on Route 12 just south of Dog River Road. We've outgrown that facility. There are some expansion constraints and it's very inadequate for our current needs. So with the trans we partnered with a site selection study looking at ways we can lower our operating cost and improve our efficiencies with a new facility. So Matt will go into some of the details, but the preliminary findings of that study have identified two locations as kind of the top choices, both of which happened to be in Berlin in one of which is actually owned by the town. So we thought it was appropriate after speaking to Vince and Tom to present some information and take any questions at this time. So with that, I'll turn over to Matt and like I said, we'll be happy to answer any questions you folks have afterwards. Vince, would you like me to share my screen with the presentation? Yes, I think that would be ideal. I just have to I have to give you the ability to do that. Let me it will not let me allow you to share the screen for some reason. It's not not giving me that option. Vince, are you able to share it on your screen? I can let you know when to move the next slide if necessary. Got one second here. I'm getting some technical assistance here to fix this now because I just tried and I was able to share a screen. Okay, I can share now. There you go. Okay. Okay, can everyone see the presentation? Yeah, great. So as John said, we're seeking an alternative site for our operations and maintenance facility in Washington County due to all the issues that we have with the current site. We are engaged in a selection study which began in November 2020 and is still ongoing. We're working with the CTA and LSC transportation consultants to have a previous experience with several of these this type of project to lead the study. We focused on potential sites in Berlin, Montpelier and Ferry for the for our headquarters. The site was focused on appropriately zone sites with a minimum of three acres of available space. And our goals for the for the future facility include increased maintenance shop capacity, sufficient indoor parking, bus parking capacity and improved administrative spaces, including staff break areas. So the site, the study began with identification of nine sites located across Berlin, Montpelier and Ferry. Berlin had the most of the three towns with five sites identified of the initial nine sites. Three were identified for a more comprehensive analysis. So on this screen is a breakdown of the operating cost between the three finalists sites. Those are the shed road property owned by the town of Berlin, a as well as a roughly 25 acre lot on paint turn pipe north and a three acre parcel on industrial lane. The industrial lane property was eliminated after the concept design stage was discovered that the required setbacks associated with that property would shrink the usable space down to what is needed for GMT to fully support our long term property needs. So the area of one of the area one of the areas of evaluation was deadhead costs and the impact on our operating costs from the future site. So our consultants looked at that is a deadhead analysis of going to to and from all the routes that we would serve from the facility. Shed road and the paint turn pipe north property. We're both very similar in the anticipated total operating costs and both offered savings over our offer potential savings over our current facility. And you'll also see the industrial lane property that was eliminated from consideration was a fairly significant fairly significantly higher than the other three. So the evaluation of the three sites looked at multiple areas including site access development costs land use compatibility environmental impacts wetland floodplain issues impacts on the operating costs was the previous slide indicated tax roll impact and mission statement consistency which is essentially how well does the site offer us to be able to meet our goals in the area to serve the public. Each factor was weighted 0 to 1 based on relative importance to the study and to our long-term needs. You'll see the paint turn bike north and shed road property both scored very highly very favorably in the in the analysis and both offered significant improvement over our current facility. So on this slide you see a concept design prepared by our consultants. Yes. The question you want me wait till the end or do you want me to speak up. You can ask him now that's fine. It was about it was about the tax roll on the on the previous slide. Yes. They were opposite ends of the spectrum and I'm I'm curious why that is is I don't understand the the difference in the impact. So the shed road property being owned by the town of Berlin would mean that a potential acquisition by GMT would not remove any property from the tax roll whereas the other sites are privately owned and a sale would be a sale to GMT being a nonprofit tax exempt organization would remove those properties from the tax roll. Okay. Thank you. So the concept design this is a this is more of an exercise than anything. This isn't a final proposed site layout but this does give a sense of space use by GMT on the proposed parcel and you'll also see on this this on the concept design this has a proposed access from the neighboring property of the traveler service center next door. The current access to the property off of shed road does propose some challenges given the volume of bus traffic that would be over that road. So it's in all it's in our best interest to at least explore alternative access. We have not yet had discussions with the neighboring property about this access but we plan to in the future. And this way this also involves a redesign of their current entrance into the into the property. So I have another question sorry. Look looking at the previous picture knowing what we know about the travel center. It looks like it would effectively take at the berm behind the travel center is that right. I don't believe the berm is in this particular location. I believe the firm is further south from here but that is we are aware of the firm between the properties and that is definitely something that we will continue to look into. So our next steps we are going to work with our consultants to continue to evaluate the development possibilities at both of the finalist sites. We are working with we are securing an appraisal and appraiser to perform appraisals on both sites to establish the fair market value. That's something that we would be required being a recipient of federal funds to have if we were to go move ahead with a property acquisition. We're going to continue discussions with the property owners regarding acquisition possibilities at each site. We are also identifying NEPA process activities that would be needed at either site and working with our consulting team to make a final recommendation to the GMT Board of Commissioners. Are there any other any other questions? Can everyone hear me? My name is Randy Lague. Yes. Go ahead, Randy. I'm is it now it's the time to talk or ask make a statement. I guess so we became aware. I'm one of the owners of the adjoining property that has the picture drawn through and this was brought to our attention last Friday and I can assure you that we will not allow that to happen. We've gone through what we went through with Act 250 to get this through with the traffic studies and everything. That access will not change. So I would say from GMT's perspective that's obviously a major consideration in this shed roadside. We did work with VTRANS to see if access on the 62 was feasible. They said it was not so that will certainly be a consideration as we move forward. We are not done with the study. So this is all preliminary at this point. Okay, that's really good information to have. Yeah, I was unsure who would have directed you to draw it on our property, but it's it won't we we can't do it and we won't do it. It was mostly an exercise to try and find an alternative to shed road. Okay, I just I mean, I don't want to come out the 11th hour which occurs sometime in permitting. I want to go right up. We appreciate the feedback now. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I do I do quite I do question why you go out the shed road in terms of shed road that's there now about there now about I'm sorry there was a lot of echoing going on going going on. Let me be you. Let me and if you can ask you if you can repeat your question that be your question. All right. Is the echo gone? The echo gone. It appears it appears. I wonder why you needed me in terms of there's an entrance going out shed row on the row on the turn by John, you're still I'm still got quite an echo excuse me. It's everyone else including Tom including Vince. Yes. Can we can you go out on to turn can you go out on to turn paint turnpike from shed row road then rather than cutting air across the travel center. Is there a reason you want to use the road that's already there primary concern would be the volume of bus traffic going past residential properties some of which being close to the road there. Not sure if it's a deal breaker. It's just a consideration for that property got it. Thank you. Are there any other questions? Why are why aren't you thinking of expanding the building there where you are now? You've been told that we cannot do that because of its location in the floodplain. We had in during Hurricane Irene, we had a major flood at the property that caused a significant amount of damage. We received FEMA funds it in as a result of that my understanding is that we any any construction or renovation to that facility has to be done on the existing footprint of the buildings that are already there. Is there a story? Go ahead. I can wait. All right. There's also the issue of there is no city sewer to that current property. The property deposits into a leech field and due to changes to Department of Environmental Conservation they no longer allow maintenance floor drains or bus washing at bus wash wastewater to deposit into leech fields. So that's another challenge with the site. We've worked with our neighboring properties to try and advance a project to bring city sewer to that area. That project looks like it's at least a couple of years out if it even is feasible. This is basically just real quick grad being a part of on the board of Weston's co-op at the same time that we've been working on that to bring that sewer line down there for a couple of years to help out the trans and to help out the park. But that's something that because of the income requirements and stuff here and studies and stuff that needs to be done is another reason why that line is probably minimally a few years even from even being a possibility. That's a septic line from the city going past Weston's into that V-trans building. Thank you. Do we have any other questions? So was there in this initial thing for the shed road thing is there any reason why they wouldn't fall? You know, continue on that road other than the possibilities the upgrade in the traffic to buy the residential homes there is that going to be a something that would eliminate this site from being considered? I think it's too early to tell. I think knowing that the access from the server service center is a likely no go. I think we need to take a closer look at whether the shed road can be done that might involve more outreach with neighboring properties. I'm not totally sure what that will entail. Looking at that drawing is that the access between the Comfort Inn and the Maplewood complex? Is that is that where that is actually where you're showing that? Yes. So this would actually be off of the current entrance into the service center. This is proposing a redesign of that. And then there would be another there would be an extension of that access back to the town of Berlin property behind there. Okay. All right. Thank you. Anything else? All right. Thank you for your time, gentlemen. Thank you. We'll keep you guys updated as things progress. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next up, we have good Samaritan presentation. Yeah. Hello. This is Rick DeAngelis. I'm just waiting for the share screen to end. Hello, everybody. I'm Rick DeAngelis and I'm the executive director of Good Samaritan Haven. And I'm here tonight with Julie Curtin and Nicola Anderson. They're from Downstreet Housing and Community Development. Downstreet is partnering with Good Sam to help us acquire the Twin City Motel and develop it as a service and rich emergency housing option for individuals who are homeless. I also want to mention that Sue Mentor, who is the executive director of Capstone Community Action, and I believe Mary Moulton is also here. She's from Washington County Mental Health Mental Health Services. You know, Good Sam is taking the lead on this project, but it's truly a collective effort of the service community. So we're going to make our comments pretty short and then open it up for your questions. But our intention is to highlight some features of our plan. And I also very specifically were requesting your approval of the project. You know, we're applying for state funds to operate it so that we have, you know, the sufficient funding for staffing and to pay our fair share of taxes. And one of the requirements of that of that process to the state of Vermont is that the local community has to sign off on the request. So I'll begin with a few comments to supplement the fact sheet that we included in your project. And hopefully that will also create some context for you what this is all about. You know, the COVID pandemic has underscored a problem that's been growing for a long time. And that's the number of homeless people in Washington County. Right now there are about 350 individuals in Washington County were second only to shittin in County among the counties and the number of people are homeless. And those folks are living in motels like the hilltop in and they're living in shelters. We've got some shelter beds, a few shelter beds and many of them are living outside. And I'm sure you know that Berlin has been a community where many homeless people have been living outside in recent years. You know, the know how and the resources exist to help these folks get connected and back into housing that really works for them. However, it does take time and it takes some true transitional steps to make that reconnection possible. And that's what this project is all about. It's to provide a very short term structured emergency housing program to help homeless individuals get connected to long term housing options. You know, I want to point out we're not just we're not just bringing this to the town of Berlin or our efforts efforts to address the problem. We've got three other housing sites that we're planning this year located in Barry city, Barry town and the city of Montpelier as well. And having the having a few different options is really important. It helps us to, you know, to carefully screen individuals and make sure that we've got the right setting for them and so that we can immediately relocate people who aren't who aren't working out in one of the settings. You know, our goal equates Twin City and these other sites is to make places like the hilltop and unnecessary. We know that hasn't been a good thing for the for the town of Berlin. These motels may have made senses and emergency response, but as you know, they are very difficult to manage and their unproductive environments for the people who are there. We want to end the reliance the state has had on the Motel voucher system. It doesn't work in the long run. So at this point, I want to turn it over to Julie and Nicola to make a few comments about the actual physical site and why we think it can be a good site for us. Great. Thank you, Rick. And and thank you all for this time on your agenda this evening. I just wanted to start by saying Down Street is proud to be partnering with Good Sam on this project. We see it as a vital project to respond to the to the need for housing that Rick just outlined. So eloquently, we the Twin City Motel project is part of a vision that we have to provide high quality housing for all of our neighbors. And we think that the Twin City project is important to provide shelter to some of our most vulnerable neighbors, which is why we're so proud to be a part of it. I would like to also highlight that we are at a moment in time when our funders for affordable housing development have more funds than they have traditionally had. And we have a unique opportunity right now to apply for one time funding to do a project like this. So we we really we really had to jump in and seize the moment here to do this to give you a picture to go with that vision. I'd like to ask Nicola to speak to some of the design elements that we have planned for Twin City. Thanks Julie. Thanks, Rick. So along with this one time funding, this gives us the opportunity to acquire a development project like this, but also to make sure and develop this project. So it's up to ample safety code and we're putting in measures that really extend the use of this property. We planned on sprinkling each of the buildings. We plan on not using just a normal locking key system, but like a key fob system so that behind the scenes good Sam can lock people out if necessary. We're also going to make sure that this all three buildings are energy efficient. We're partnering with efficiency Vermont will be also an architect and construction manager so that we are decreasing the operational costs of the building. We're also providing ample spaces for staff and partners to support the residents and provide many different types of residents, many different types of services will be ample spaces in the current house and there's also going to be spaces down with them will tell is including a space for a staff member to stay and reside 24 seven. So there will be someone there overnight as well. And we've also met with G with GMT and V trans to place a bus stop on the site. So this will also allow the residents to access other services and job opportunities and we spoke about another shuttle service going through the site to also provide transportation to bury and will clear. I'm going to wrap it up with just a closing comment that I hope this has been informative. I know it's been brief but your time is limited. In addition to the fact sheet that we included in your package. They're also building plans and the sort of approval certification that I refer to and there's one other thing and that's a sample of quotes from organizations like capstone and Washington County Mental Health Services CVMC and a number of residents Berlin and you know there's one person that who didn't give me a quote and I was hoping he would be here tonight and that's your your police chief James Pompry on I spoke with him several times and and I my sense was he said he was supportive of the project. I guess you can ask him that yourself directly but we've had a very good working relationship with him and we think that can continue in this location so so with that I'll close up close out and and we're welcome to address any of your questions. I have a quick question. I'm just curious. You said you know obviously the hilltop and some of these other hotels throughout the state are impacting the towns. I'm curious if you've done any sort of local impact study on how this will impact Berlin having it permanently placed there and what will happen. I we have not done a study I don't know what to say about that we're going to do all that we can so that we're not drawing on your on your services and you know right from the get go as we looked at this I felt like we had to pay taxes to the town we don't want to be a drain we want this to work and and if we can and if we can make and if we can make the hilltop unnecessary I perhaps in the long run we can actually save you some money as a board have any other questions. Yeah I have a question. I'm looking for our April statement if you'd bear with me for just a second. So so Rick I guess you know one of my one of my concerns is is that is a a significant draw on the taxpayers of Berlin. And while I of course can't find the sheet at the very moment that we're we're talking even though I had it up we're talking about you know increases of 150 to 200 percent on our budget with the primary reason and I'm speaking specifically about the police department budget about the calls to the hilltop in and I'm worried I guess and I'm looking for some assurance that you know there's going to be some kind of supplemental payment or some kind of way to to work this out with you guys before the project goes forward. I mean the taxpayers of Berlin can't can afford these types of increases for one specific location in conversations with management. It looks like we could potentially put a full time staff full time police officer one or two people at the hilltop in and keep them busy 100 percent of their 40 hour week. You know that that's concerning as someone that's trying to look at you know our town holistically and make sure that not only are we providing services to all people but that things that are coming in aren't going to drain our our response to be able to be a community that is diverse and offers opportunity. I hear you you're concerned about that I you know I'm it may be difficult for us to make an additional payment beyond the taxes. I budgeted it at a full tax payment and you know I want to say we are not the hilltop in I believe that we're the opposite of the hilltop in we're very familiar with what it's been like up there. It's a very large scale. The owners I don't know what to say but their interest isn't getting people out of there or providing services. They have tried to maximize you know and fill every room and keep people keep people in there even when they're not you know they're not it's it's best not to have them there. So I you know we are not going to be the hilltop in and I think if you look at our track record in Barry we've been there 35 years and we have relatively few calls. We work very well with the emergency services there and and in fact the location in Barry it's that's what we call low barrier shelter in Barry we pretty much accept anybody there. That's not going to be the case at the hilltop and it's going to be a drug free and alcohol free environment and and we will be screening people for their suitability. So I wish I could offer you more. I wish I could offer you a supplemental payment. I think it's going to be difficult or impossible for us to do that. Rick what kind of staffing would you have on site there? Well how would how would you how would you be sort of mitigating this yourself then? Right yeah well that will be our main location for all of our staff including our housing case management staff or administrative staff. We will be there a lot will have a major presence there in the house and in addition to that we're always going to have somebody on the location even overnight they'll be awake and they'll be there holidays etc etc. So our main focus is to keep it safe for the residents and to keep it safe for our staff. Being familiar with what you guys have done in Barry for a number of years I think you're doing a great job and and with you guys having staff that's going to be on on all the time with the with an interest. I think it's a lot better than what we're dealing with at the hilltop where that's purely a monetary they're looking at that purely on a monetary basis and I appreciate what you're doing there. This is Dave Sawyer on the slide board. And Rick to be clear I'm not trying to place blame on any owners or you know anyone I just want to make sure whatever we put in place doesn't result in some of these things that we're seeing now I mean as I said police department over times that 227% of what was budgeted in their full time is that 183%. So a lot of that is attributed to what's going on over there and I just I'm looking for reassurance more than payment that you guys are going to do all you can to make sure that the housing is a respectful place for people that want to get back on the feet. Justin just to jump in real quick I'm sorry this is Vince we've got a couple of people with some raised hands that also would like to ask some questions. We've got Sue Minter then Mary Moulton and then Keith. I don't have a question I did want to just offer a perspective which is to really first start with the distinction between what's happening at the hilltop and what is being proposed to you today the hilltop is a location for people receiving vouchers from the state who are going without a management system without a plan without really a safe and respectful environment and what good Sam is proposing is something quite the opposite the antidote almost because what we and good Sam works with a group a collection of service providers including capstone community action and our part of this is trying to get people from insecure housing or shelter into secure housing and help support them in that journey. We work with landlords we work with tenants and we are working together feverishly frankly to help make sure that when people are exiting those hotels we're going to get them into a safer situation. We've been working since the beginning of the pandemic as a team the collection we call the homeless response team and you'll hear from Mary Moulton as well. But the point is we have a vision of to your point respectful and careful housing opportunities. We tried valiantly to purchase a hotel earlier in the covid pandemic unsuccessfully Rick has been charting a course we hope that you can support this and we know we're asking a lot of you because your experience is hearing the unfortunate and unfortunate to hear the expense to your taxpayers experience of this what's happening at the hilltop and we're working to change that so we don't have to send unhoused people to motels through the GA program but in fact we have a program where we have a hub what we call a hub of support of mental health housing case management all of the support working with the shelter. So this is part of our vision and I just want to say we works we hope you will partner with us because we truly believe that at the other end of this pandemic and we really see that light shining now we don't go back to a place where there's nowhere to go for people but you know in the shadows or in your parking lots where there's actually a place where people can look to their future where we can support them in their journey to safe housing and that's the goal of this I think it's in a location that is not residential. We are committed to safety and security and hopefully a really different future and we we really hope you can support us and we are it's not just good Sam. It's a whole collection of housing support social service providers that are are really working to be a partner with you if you're able to support us and we hope that you will and thanks so much for your consideration. Justin we also have Mary Moulton and then Keith and I just then excellent questions. Hi thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks so much for hearing Rick tonight and I'm one of those partners and I am the executive director of Washington County Mental Health Services. So we've partnered with the shelter for a really long time and I just wanted to throw in here you know that the work that the shelter has done under Rick's leadership has just been excellent and we have a person that works closely with the shelter and this hub idea that Sue is mentioning will bring in more people to work with this group of folks that will be living and receiving support so we can hopefully get them into housing. But we work closely with Chief Pompry on to because we have a 24 7 response team and I just I just want to acknowledge the hilltop has been hard. You know it it is really state taking people off the streets during the pandemic and everybody went in and it it felt very very overwhelming and at times we've tried to get a better handle on it by providing supports and services. But we just know that unless we get a situation where we could have the shelter do what they do so well by providing the supports 24 7 and us bringing in our additional ancillary supports for emergency services case management peer supports that we're not going to fix the problem and people are going to be out on the streets. I know because I've met with Chief Pompry on his numbers that you know a lot of those calls are out in the community because people are leaving you know the hotels they've come from everywhere. We've talked with other chiefs chiefs about vetting. They've just come from everywhere. These people that Rick will take into the twin city will be people that he is working to know the background for and will all work to get them house. So again thanks for hearing it and just as a another group that does response and 24 7 response. We felt it and we can't wait for something like this to help us to turn the situation around. Thank you. Thank you Keith go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon Rick. This is Keith and I understand chief of the Berlin fire department. I have a couple questions. This is a new proposal to me. How many residents do you plan on being having the new facility being able to host a total of 35 that would be the maximum that's 18 rooms but with a capacity of 35. Okay. And how long would their stays before 30 days or less. I understand that you're going to be retrofitting the buildings instead of rebuilding. Yes it will be rich with safety features including sprinklers and hardware smoke alarms. The buildings weren't in bad shape but they definitely needed updating and in many ways and we'll be doing that. Is it going to have a called in fire detection system too. I have to ask Nicola that question. Nicola you're on. I saw it. Yes. Yep it will. And I just stand that you're the good salmon Barry has a different clientele than you're going to have in this place. But do you have an estimate as to the annual calls for service between police firing EMS that the Barry shelter does. Keith I'd have to I'm sorry I don't have that with me tonight. I didn't think to get to make that available or get it from the chief in Barry city. But I'd be glad to follow up with you on that. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions. So you're Bradtown on the select board. So basically you're proposing more of a treatment center than a than housing. Well treatment is it's not a medical facility at all. It is housing. But the the emphasis is on getting people to services they need to reconnect them with with long term housing. Yeah. Thank you. Anybody else. Keith thanks for asking that question. I appreciate that. All right. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you for the update. Thank you all so much. Thank you. So Rick we do need this document signed. Could you give us a I mean again we do have a very specific need and I'm I'm wondering if you'd either be willing to take that up tonight or or tell us how we might get an answer on that because it we have it's it's really a crucial step in our process. Was it just a certification of local government approval form. Yes. Yes. I believe that would be handled by the development the Developmental Review Board right then so you available Tom. Actually it whatever what it is is and correct me Rick if I'm wrong it's just that an approval of the municipality regarding the project moving forward. That's correct. We are going through your development review process and so you know we'll have to get our permit approvals. That's not that form isn't signing off on that by any means. It's it's it's signing off on the receipt of funds to operate the project. And again correct me if I'm wrong Rick but it's it's basically the the board's approval for them to move forward in order to obtain federal funding for their project. Right. So one of the some of the questions that we don't have answers exactly to or the impact is I mean is the board have feel like they have enough of their questions answered to say we authorized this we think it's a good idea. I mean what's the board's thoughts on this. This is Dave Sawyer. You know personally I'm in support of this project and how how it would run and ultimately I would not have a problem with it. Since it has more oversight than the berry facility. But I do believe I think I think first and foremost is to have have what numbers that the very first you know that to the to get the questions answered that Keith asked before I'd be willing to make any motion myself. All right. Thank you Dave. Any other feedback Brad John flow which would you be open to us coming back to you at your next meeting after I give you that information and so that we could hopefully have a vote on on that on that certification. I would be more inclined to instead of answering Keith just send the information to Vance and let him distribute it. So the board will have it. Okay. Yeah. Also you can get it to Keith personally I have no I have no objections to the to the use of the motel is what you're proposing and I'm in agreement as well. But I do think we need to have the numbers in front of us. I agree with that. John do you have any feedback. No I think the way Rick Rick described what they're going to do and the way it's going to be run it sounds like they have a well structured plan in place. I would like to see Keith's questions answered as well but outside of that I'm I'm okay with it. Okay. So why don't we why don't we do this we'll get get those questions answered you'll send those off to the board and we'll add you to the next agenda. Right. Thank you very much. We really appreciate the time and the consideration. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Yes. Thank you for what you guys do. Thank you. All right. Next up we have personnel policy revision approval. John I believe we waited on this because you are absent at the last meeting. Well not the last meeting the last regularly scheduled Monday meeting. So last three meetings but we definitely didn't want to move forward without a full board if we can avoid it. So thank thank you for thank you for being here this evening. Have you looked at the have you looked at the personnel policy at all? Please tell me yes. Oh yeah. All right. How does the board feel about moving forward with that? I would move to approve the changes to the personnel policy. I'd second any discussion. All right all those in favor signify by saying now I had a quick oh go ahead. I had a quick question. What were the for for the people on on in TV land? What were the major revisions between the old policy and the new policy? Added the sorry go ahead Justin. No I was just going to ask you to go ahead. Okay. We added the section regarding temporary work. So bringing people back mainly around the police force to but in general to bring people back to work at a limited duty status type of way that whole section was added in this revision. The rest of it were minor cleaning up the some of the the language to make it a little more clear but that was the biggest addition that we that would we were asked to to revise it to I can tell you. Are you still looking I just want to make sure everyone understood what we did there. Yep. Any additional discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Excellent. All right. Fire Department liaison discussion and report. I know we have Keith on Dave will be talking about it is is Joe on as well. Yes, I am. Oh, there you are. So this I wanted to start having liaison discussion for each department. Even though you guys aren't a municipal department, you're crucial to the structure of this community. Obviously play a huge role and I think that moving forward in order to best serve Berlin's population. We need to make sure everybody's working as closely as they can. We had asked for a couple of different things to occur. And I don't know if Dave you want to speak to it at all, but at our last meeting with we discussed a couple of things that we wanted to ask of the fire department. And we also wanted to have a quick discussion on how we could also maybe additionally support you. And I wanted to just touch base and see where we're at with those. Dave's you want to take over and talk about the specifics. Well, you know, we're still in the early stages. I know that Keith and Joe both have worked a lot of hours and and real hard and Keith is putting this some some numbers together or this study together for you. Something had started before I was on there on the board. I think they're doing a you know, a really good job. You know, they've got some obstacles that they've got to overcome and I'm hoping that we can help them do that with some ordinances, you know, on some nuisance alarms and some other stuff. I know Keith Keith I'll let him speak to this study. You know, what you asked for before, you know, I was on the board and you know, I think at this time, I don't really have a lot to add. I've got a lot of numbers that Jerry I can't ever pronounce his last name, but he supplied me with some numbers and I'm looking at those as as as it goes and and you know, I'll let Keith speak to this study that feasibility study. All right. So there was a couple of different things. First we wanted the clarification on roles and responsibilities and I just wanted to make that a little bit more publicly known so that the community understood the structure of the fire department. The board understood the structure of the fire department how it works. I know that can be sometimes they can slow the process down or change how how things operate. The second was the merger study results that we were looking for and then we wanted to talk about the potential for we had had a discussion about Berlin taking over some of the accounting and then we want to talk about the false alarm or nuisance alarm ordinance. So Keith go ahead and just let's hit these one point at a time and we'll go from there. Absolutely. The first one I'll talk about is the the potential merger study right now. We're working with Corinne. We're doing a public survey that we're interested in getting feedback for the public about basically their thoughts and opinions of the current fire department and its level of service and such where we have that prepared we're working with Corinne to get it into her news to know we're going to be posting it on front porch forum at the same time and that should be going out extremely shortly in July. We're going to be sending a draft of the report to the fire department itself for review and then after the fire department review and internal clearance. Let's call it. It will be going up to you. Okay. Now is this this study geared around community perception or is it geared around growth and development of the fire department and how to from the fire department's perspective pros and cons pros and cons to the municipality. What would you say the primary gearing of this survey study is that you're doing? We we thought the community the pros and cons for the fire department and the community perception were really go hand in hand and the community the community involvement. It was significant as far as the study and how we should be moving forward as an apartment because ultimately there are customers. So Okay. Now I know I was starting to help with this so I'm just asking some questions. What what when do you think the town can anticipate seeing the results of this study? Well, like I said, it's going in front of the fire department in the beginning of July revision one month. So I would say in September timeframe would you agree Joe excuse me? What what was that timeframe? You said Keith September timeframe. I think that'll be easy enough that the survey the draft has been put out to a select few. We kind of did a once over. I believe that it'll be going out to the community in the next few days. I believe we're going to have that out for about a month and then we'll be evaluating the results after that. And then it's going to follow the timeline of which Keith just laid out for you. Okay. Thank you. Anything else on this study that you guys wish to share? I think that's about it at the moment. All right. We're eagerly anticipating that. So one of the things I thought would be useful for the other board members as well as the community would be for clarification of the roles and basically the structure of the fire department. You know, being that I was liaison and on the board of directors there. I understood it, but there's still a little bit of a slight confusion for me probably because I wasn't on the fire department side as much. Can you go ahead and give like a 30 second one minute overview of the structure of the fire department so that the board understands how it operates? You mean basically the board of director structure? Just the, you have the board of directors. You also have the, what's the other board? Okay. Yeah, so you've got. Understood. The fire department is a technically an independent nonprofit corporation from the town. And as you know, you know, we ask for our funding once a year at the town meeting day. We have two sides to the fire department. One is that corporation, which is the management of the the finances and the day-to-day stuff like that. Then we have the fire department, fire ground side, which is where we take care of the calls for service, the fire calls, the preparedness of the department, the department training for the fire calls. And that's in my purview as the chief Joe as the president of the corporation runs the different boards such as the board of directors and any other subcommittees that we have like membership or committees to help maintain the trucks so on and trucks so on and so forth. That's that's the basic structure. The board of directors itself is comprised of a nine member board. Seven of them are fire department officers, corporation officers, the fire chief. Two of them are public members. One is appointed as a select board member for by the select board. And the others appointed by the select board as a general public member who Jerry DM and TDs is in that position. And those are advisory positions to provide input and liaison between the select board and ourselves. Get the select board's opinion on on issues going on with the department as and keep closer in touch, keep keep a be a lot work a lot better. We're working relationship than before we had those positions and over the years it's been a number of years since what about seven Joe since we've done that. It's probably been at least seven and I think in that time frame we have developed a lot better working relationship with the town select board because of that. So Joe, do you have anything to add? I don't know if it was all that clear with with the board of directors and those two non corporate members. They are voting members of that board. So, right? Yep. Does the board have any questions for as far as the overall structure of the fire department and how it operates? No, okay. One of the one of the things that I believe the fire department has been experiencing is that a fairly significant number of what what I think they would refer to as nuisance alarms. Which is an added expense obviously to the department. So the board has adopted a nuisance alarm policy. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that Vince. But I feel like it's time for us to navigate a way to be able to support the fire department and enforcing this policy. I am not overly familiar with it. I have looked at it Justin since the last meeting. I'll get into deeper detail and get a better understanding of it this week. Okay now from the fire department perspective, do you have any idea of what it would take for support from the municipality at this point to support you and enforcing that policy? So that policy my understanding was it was created as an ordinance with in combination with the police department for security alarms as well. Being that we're a separate organization than the town. It's it was unclear to me how the who was responsible for the enforcement and how it was to be where was the stick how is it to be enforced? And that's been a question that I think we need to to sort out and hammer out and possibly if we need to revise the ordinance get that taken care of. Tom's on here. He might be able to speak to that. I believe we had some discussion around enforcement of policies or ordinances and maybe events can as well. But we can always appoint somebody to enforce those for us so you could be acting on behalf of the town. I believe if I'm not mistaken. We've been having discussion at the staff meeting level for the last couple months about best ways to to proceed along those lines. So I think there's we've got some good conversation going here in in the in the office. It's just now doing a doing a evaluation and bringing something to the select board for your review and approval. Okay. Is there any way that we could loop either Joe and Keith or one of them in on some of these dialogues so that they could be you know brought up to speed. I'll share with those guys that the videos that we've been we've been watching. Thank you Tom. Excellent. Thanks. I appreciate that is Diane still on here. Diane we had talked potentially about being able to help the fire department with some of their their book work. Is that still do you think something we can look at now that we've got our new town administrator? I do think something to look at I'm I would appreciate it if we could start it in September just because we're coming into my busiest time of year. Okay. So do you want to do you want to bring the discussion back up in September? Do you want to talk a little bit more about what their needs are? Did you get all your answers when we spoke before? I would like to speak more about what their needs are and I think it could talk with Keith and Joe about that just to see exactly what they do need from me and then we can go from there. Okay. Can you guys share that with Diane so that we can get everybody up to speed there and then we can start looking at it in September. Absolutely. Sure. Do you guys have anything else from the needs of the fire department or concerns or anything like that you'd like to bring to the board's attention? I think getting the your plan of having us do a regular update at a meeting meetings with you as with the other boards is a very good idea and I support it. One of the things I think that Joe and I were wondering is what type of information on a regular updates are you looking for from us? Great question. I think number one would be probably some concerns for the taxpayers and the boards about maybe activity. I think that's you know calls probably you know responded calls what type of calls calls that may have come in that were unresponded John will get to you in a minute I see your hand up calls that came in that were unresponded to. That's obviously a big concern. Go ahead John. Are we talking just about the nuisance calls or in general updates in general updates? Everything what do we know about the fire department to better understand how they operate and what their needs are. Yeah, for me it's staffing concerns number of calls you're going on and budget actual. Just right you know it's on it. Does the board have any other questions? Okay. I mean Keith I think since we're sort of starting this this is relatively new and we haven't been doing it on a consistent basis. Some of these things may be subject to a little bit of change but the general ideas we'd like to know how you're operating what kind of coverage levels we have how we can support you and obviously in turn that reflects on how you're supporting us as a town being that you're independent. Correct. Good that's a good good basis to start from and obviously we'll be adjusting that as we develop this so and also I mean you guys you guys are the ones operating the professionals there maybe you have some some information or some ideas of things that you think you should share with us. I don't know. Yeah well Joe and I will will look at that we were I think that's a good starting point right there. One of the things I would probably put in there is maybe some general training update just to so you'd understand how our level of training is that would yep probably and an active roster like the volume you know that that might not be a bad idea. Okay as in roster numbers. Yeah yeah I mean how many how many people do we have so so if you respond to a call is it one person you know you know if you if you get a call and you respond it's different probably if you have one person than if you have 10 right just thinking so that so that's probably some relative information as well. Okay and then also I think you know the board might be interested in hearing how you plan to you know I mean we'll get the results of this this this merger potential merger survey whatever but but how you plan on supporting the town as the town grows I mean we're looking at some significant development I think those and you know maybe what is your where do you see the department what's your department's plan as it stands today 5 years 10 years 15 years how are you going to do that because with all of the development is going to go on I don't think it's fair to burden our residents with any additional expense I think a lot that should all be able to be covered by the development. That is a major portion of the study that we're looking at right so I'd like to know you know when we get those results a little bit more detail on how you plan to address that forward. Anything else gentlemen Joe Keith you're all set I appreciate your time thank you for joining us this evening that's very much thank you. Thank you John Keith appreciate you. All right we have Brookfield Road signage parking and security discussion would you like to begin with well go ahead. So part part of this is tied in with the ordinance that I'm working on with the chief as well right the speed limit we've had a number of requests due to safety concerns with the increased volume of traffic and the increase foot traffic as well on there so you'll see something from me later this week a complete package regarding that including some recommendations on parking and signage for that so basically we're looking at reducing the speed to 25 reinforcing the the no parking along Brookfield Road with some signage as well and perhaps a public hearing on that specific ordinance due to the public interest on that as well and adding some additional parking perhaps will be in the proposal as well I measured pain turnpike south today a couple of sections of that where we could potentially park safely I spoke with Tim as well I need to review it with the chief along the interstate side of pain turnpike south to alleviate some of the parking outside the designated areas on that little section in Brookfield Road so there's there's one section of pain turnpike south that is roughly 35 feet wide and there's over 1500 feet and that straight section right there given if you if you allowed 25 feet for parking space there you would have probably you would have between 50 and 60 parking spots right there alone in that straight section and that would take a lot of pressure off especially when there's events and things as well just from a parking perspective the security portion I'm sure everybody's aware Justin you had asked to have this on there because of an incident that we had recently had where there was a theft there so you may want to speak to that well it was just a concern I don't I don't see how we could possibly put cameras in or anything like that but we we had a concern from from a per individual that thought maybe we should so I wanted to just kind of see see what there's but you know like I think it was probably just a it was a broken window maybe or not even a broken window do you know if there was any vandalism involved in that events or was it just somebody left their car unlocked I think the car was unlocked I'm not sure if they broke a window or not on that one all I know this that there was you know there were contents taken out of her purse that was left on the seat and minutes later the they were being used at the mall so I mean I can't really police all of that so well I think again with revising the ordinance there will be increased patrolling going on there because we'll have an ordinance that they can enforce I think that will help as well what it'll certainly raise the awareness and again if there's more cars parked up on the interstate side of pain turnpike you know there's there's a lot there's not a lot but there's more traffic and visibility there as well right anything else on this not from my end again the only thing is I'll be getting a complete package with the engineering survey out the recommended speed limit the number of signs that we'll we'll probably need to purchase and a proposal but I need to review it now that the chief's back with him to get his buy-in and agreement from a safety standpoint that it makes sense I've already talked to Tim on it as well so excellent then so I appreciate any further questions from the board all right conservation Commission update on management plan and also discussion of the Black Road bridge who do we have on from the conservation commission both Phil and Wendy Lynn I believe are right with us tonight Ellen also and yeah Ellen is here as well I think sister Lauren might be on also on the phone all right I see you're there thanks for joining us does the board has the board had an opportunity to review this this management plan I see you shaking your head yes John Brad I can't really see you but yes I look I looked it over to Dave Sawyer here any any concerns comments questions for the the commission this is flow I didn't have any questions thank you though John I would just I would just say looking at it in the way it was presented 150 signatures that Josh Walker received really wasn't brought up all that much instead they talked a lot about the public input of of a couple of surveys that very few people responded to you know I still haven't seen the results for the second survey that went out maybe I missed it but it would be nice if we could have all that raw data I mean after all you know it will help us inform our decision as a board of what we do can anyone from the conservation Commission speak to that I'm not sure what you're asking can just repeat which what you're missing Josh's information was in the report that we gave you and I'm not sure which one is the second second survey I think they're looking for the one you did the survey on on front porch forum so there were there was three there was the original survey which was done way back at the beginning that's in the report and then there was a survey on current use in the winter and that was in the report and then there was another survey of snowmobile users that is in the report also and Josh's petition was also in the report so we actually printed his petition so I'm unclear on what you're looking for well actually let's kind of just back up a little bit so as far as these management plans are concerned the this this draft from looking at five six twenty twenty one and it's unclear there's not a lot of direction as far as what changes or alterations have been made from the current plan is there any I think it might be useful for the board and for the community to be able to visually see the changes I mean is this all new language what can you tell me where the changes and tell the board where the changes have been made to this the plan over the existing plan some of it's been reorganized so there's not exactly one to one correspondence to it the big probably the big bulk of it is we added the appendices at the end of it which were not in the old plan and let's just started at the beginning we flushed out a little bit more information about property background I think we did a little bit of organization in section to the plan objectives just so it was clear what the objectives were section restricted uses of the property we flushed out number six the motor vehicle use portion of it and add some appendices with information on that permitted uses of the property I'm not sure we're putting changes into that section okay so have you sent this this out to the community or I mean it seems like everything we've done so far has has involved some sort of community survey or study based on what the commission wants have you have you sent this out to as well for study or a community it was put out front page for a front porch forum and I really haven't received a whole lot of feedback from the public on it I've had couple maybe two or three emails and everybody just said it looks good so it's not a whole lot of feedback you know I think it's it's a pretty people aren't really interested in reading this much of a document is why I guess I think it's probably a large document and without kind of a I don't know if you sent a summary page or anything that would explain that the significant differences or changes or alterations that were made to the management plan I think that would be very useful I don't know what other means what other questions the board may have about it but I think I think that would be probably provoke a better response from the community what does what does the board think about that Wendy did we post it on the town website yes we we gave it it was posted on the town website it wasn't perhaps labeled on exactly to what it was I think it was labeled as conservation documents but it was posted out a couple weeks it was posted out right the same time that we gave it to you and it was posted to front porch forum at the same time also I mean the biggest thing was probably in the recreational uses I mean what we were told to do is add snowmobiling and so this is not a comprehensive update this was adding snowmobiles and so I think recreational uses snowmobiling is added in there's a section it was reorganized so you can see mountain biking clearly also on in section for there was a discussion on quarter managers which would be vast and also the mountain bike people and that's the big change I mean we were asked to put snowmobiles and we've put snowmobiles and and we put information on the quarter management and then in the pennies the other probably important really important part of that was when you get down to just give me a second scrolling I mean I think snowmobiles were already allowed in the other management plan so I'm just curious you said that was mainly around well in the other one I just said at the discretion didn't really it didn't put any it said that they could be allowed that's what it said before so it didn't really give any information as far as what that would look like so if when we added it back and just scroll back up there so real specifically snowmobiling is allowed only there's a section it talks about one paragraph on snowmobiling being on on the trails that are on the official Bass trail map only when when the bass is open the trails for snowmobile use all state laws will be enforced snowmobiles must riding control yield to non-motorized users non-motorized users need to move to the side of the trail so you know both people need to watch for each other and speed it says speed limit on the shared use is as posted and when I talked today for low basically he said he would put slow on there and he believes that people would slow down to appropriate speed so he didn't feel the need to you know specifically tell people how fast to go he felt that people would go to appropriate speed so that's the one paragraph on snowmobiling if you come down into section for the trail plan there's a section on corridor managers and that would be any organization who's managing a use in the town forest and at this time it would be vast for snowmobiles and it would be Mamba for mountain bikes so this would apply to both of those groups and it flushed out a little bit more about what quarter managers would do and what they're responsible for so they're responsible for maintaining the trail maintaining repair in the trail especially during the season it's being used and they're also responsible for monitoring and forcing of trail use and rules. We would like to see a signed agreement with the quarter managers that sort of spells out you know what our responsibilities are what their responsibilities are and very similar to what Barry has over Millstone. So there's no question about who you know if you want if they want to maintenance what's the process for doing maintenance who's responsible for permits it spells that out and we down in the appendix there is a quarter management agreement that sort of based on what Barry has going but that's just a draft for right now that needs to be reviewed to see if it's appropriate for Berlin and also it might it might be good to run it quickly by some legal person just to make sure that we're covered for insurance and liability and that type of stuff and it looks like that's what Barry did also so I think with with the vast we're going to be that that makes sense that we want to make sure we're covered my concern is if we're going to worry specifically about the snowmobiles for liability and coverage I feel like do we do we require insurance from Mamba we do not I would think that that would be something we'd also want to have in there I would you know what happens if you know somebody riding a mountain bike it's a pedestrian vice versa I mean that insurance companies bifurcate all the time I would think that just because it's motorized doesn't mean it's necessarily any more of a liability I would I would make sure that any of these clubs that are going to be participating in this management plan any of this structured usage I would that if we're going to require that we have insurance or liability coverage from one we would want to make it pretty standard across the board so yeah some of my feedback I don't really know what standard around the state you know as far as fast even if they set sign a private property agreement ensures the landowner right on I'm not sure what is standard around the state for mountain biking it may be different so that would be a question well I think that if I wouldn't necessarily I mean I think most of this project has been relatively unstandard in comparison to what goes on around the rest of the state I think from a municipal standpoint and protection of our taxpayers if we're going to allow structured club usage we we should probably make sure that there's liability protection there for the municipality so somehow in here I'd like to personally see reassurance that that's occurring I don't know how the rest of the board feels I can't speak for the board but to me we have a bunch of different recreational usages up there and and mama being the other maybe more significant well the most significant club use or structured use of the time at this moment who's also I mean I just I feel like we definitely need to make sure our taxpayers are protected there. This is this Dave Sawyer I would I would definitely agree we need to have something in there especially with mamba you know some kind of insurance requirements that they give us I just see that being a more of a risk to to the town and the snow machine only because they run in quiet and we have walkers up there in the summertime probably more so than than the winter. So I think I think that's a definite thing that that I would agree we need to have some kind of minimum limits and requirement for that organization to have insurance policy. And you want to handle that do you want us to contact Mamba and or is that some of them should do. I would think that since you guys are aware of what kind of this is just my my thoughts that since you're aware of the the requirements and what you're looking for from a conservation commission standpoint to the for protection from vast and what type of trail or what kind of damages are potential there that that would be something you guys would be better suited to handle than that's you're more familiar with it. I guess to me it's it gets into legal or liability thing which is will be on my right you're already working with that with bass so you must have some idea of what you're looking for right. I just copied what was going on out of the very plan. And best does even with their private landholder carries insurance so it was just looking at what was standard out there. And that's why it was suggested that it get reviewed by the town attorney to make sure it was okay and whether legal stuff like this is beyond my ability to look maybe that's mom but maybe you could reach out to you know other communities Millstone find out what they're doing who who ultimately gives a mamba or vast the go ahead is I mean they're applying for permit to run through the town forest and mamba is and before they can get up in there who do they see to to get that authorization. It's like board is the final word on that based on the record and from the Conservation Commission in the past recommendations but you guys are the final say on it. Yeah we're just trying to get something down so we standardized it exactly you know it's all I'm just saying I think that way we have a procedure in a process in place should another club or organization want to do something up there I mean let's just say somebody wants to do disc golf course up there we find that how are we going to have how are we going to have our standards set so that it's fair so that the town's protected that that's all I'm asking for you know I think it's reasonable I think we should have some something standardized when clubs come to us and you know no matter what component is recreation education whatever we want to make sure the people on that Hill we have some sort of coverage so we're not putting as you say the taxpayers that you know at risk so to speak so I think that's what we're striving to do and this is the first step and so is they so again go going that we're into the season here is it has a houses operate with mom but now I mean I know they've been up there in the past they hasn't just been taken for granted by them that maybe they're okay to go this year I mean what what what has happened there does anybody really know they're you asking if there's an annual approval process for utilization of the trail yeah basically I mean they've been up there in the past and and I'm assuming that these guys are right now oh they are yeah they're writing now I was up I hiked the other day and I came across a right yeah they're up there there's no doubt about so I think in this management plan as I recall there maybe maybe looking for an annual review or walk through and meeting with the vast vast for their trail system is that correct correct we're looking at doing that with me and but also or anywhere was that a club with this management plan as well. Yes it's in that management plan that go any going to that we have up there right now is ma'am but that's but basically there's a general quarter management section in the plan and any court or manager which would be vast or ma'am but this point yeah would have a review and annual renewal. I think I think that's a great idea because you know we've talked about the trails that have been cut in. Yes yes I agree. You know like to put it in perspective I know vast has made promises that they would in a lot of ways kind of self-regulate self-police try to help ensure everything is working just as planned and I think by having that annual review as well with the mountain biking if they're you know obviously if things don't go as planned with vast and they're not a good partner to the community then obviously we could rescind their access and so they were going to do their best to to to steward and keep the relationship moving forward in a positive direction with the town because there is a repercussion now by adding that in with the mountain bikes and any other association that may come along that wants to utilize some of our valuable beautiful property I feel is right now there there there maybe isn't isn't much of an incentive for for ma'am but to say hey you guys cut that out and we're going to lose use of everything up here so I appreciate you a good point yeah I agree with you. Yeah yeah I think I think we'll make an effort to reach out to whether it's Brad Watson or whoever we don't even know you know with vast we knew exactly who to who to go to Dave and Mark and you know the trail the trail master so to speak when we went that visit we don't I at least I don't have names of people and mamba that you know other than Brad Watson and we can make a phone call to him and tell him what our intent is and what the new design will be as far as using you know Berlin town lands we're going to have to have a yearly agreement and this is part of our new management plan right and I would also write into the agreement that you know I mean I I think that and I don't know if it was in there forgive me there's a lot of language in there the when you look at let's say ma'am but no longer you know they don't have an insurance policy they don't have a policy that covers them they're not good stewards or partners on the land up there with us and we decide to to rescind their access now we're stuck with with what I would say is is kind of damaged property from all the switchbacks and things like that that have been created from the use of the trails and there's no real way for us to repair that so you know I would I would take that into consideration whereas you know the liability down the road for further uses as well you understand what I'm saying there. Oh yeah I totally understand what you're saying I think the the issue might be if we were to rescind a yearly agreement because of some violation that may occur. We're still I don't know how we're going to do it. It's a lot of property up there but we're still probably going to have to be in a position to police it in some way whatever that means because you're going to get renegade or pirate bikers coming through and that's just that's what happens you know. Well you could get John Quinn riding this four wheeler up to the tower too but I mean I'm just joking. You I mean it yeah I mean it's all part of it's all part of the usage but but I don't think you would see quite as much traffic quite as much usage if it wasn't club orientated. That's all yeah club sanction. Yeah yeah I agree. Yeah yeah no argument there that's I think that's how we proceed. All right any other updates concerns questions anything from the board. I guess I'm not sure what what's our next step here. We haven't talked to best since we gave you the management plan. I have a couple questions Wendy on the management plan. Okay there was something written in there about on the south side of the tower not going into that section of land until late in the year to do any of the brushing and maybe tree limb work that needs to be done when when I walk through and state that trail out I hadn't gone through that trail with the guys like we walk through the other section Darling Road section like the trail builders and the guys that are going to groom actually to groom the trail. So we're not sure you know it does definitely to me look like it's going to be easy go through there but I just haven't walked through with those guys to say well we need to maybe widen this corner a little bit here. We need to I know towards the end of right by that far southern end of the property. There was a couple big firms of dirt and we may need to kind of smooth that out a little bit right there but I'd like to talk with the trail builders first and then also not be held to if we did need to do that work this year be held to wait until towards the end of the year. Maybe get an idea of what we needed to do there you know go through get an idea of what we needed to do there which is you walk through it's very minimal but there was a couple of spots that I thought might need a little bit of dirt work you know a little bit of excavating work to smooth out. So should we plan a time to walk through with the club again. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. If that would work for you. I could go through with the club and if they say oh you know what we don't really need to do anything I could get back to you and say no we're all good we'll wait until this fall we'll go through and clear it out. Other than that I have a meeting with them on Wednesday night and and I can find out what what their thought is on that there was another thing on there that you put in the management on that. So if if there was some earthwork that needs to be done we would probably want to see that before you started in on it. Oh absolutely no absolutely that in you know and that's what I meant if the if we walk through found something we would mark like the area where it would be and then maybe just you and I are you know me and a couple people from the conservation board and I can go up there and go over it with you. There was another thing in the management plan where it was absolutely no UTV use on that section of trail and and we'd like to make you know be able to go through with you know weed whackers and weed stuff and maybe carry them on a UTV you know our gas and you know chainsaw that we would need to trim the branches. I don't know if you had noticed when you walk through with Tom we had gone through there a few times last year with our ATVs and we didn't we didn't even break the saw though but I don't know if you could even tell that we had gone through with our ATVs last year. So if you needed to do that late in the season that's probably okay you know we'd like to minimize that and definitely not do it while all the vegetation the spring inframerals and that type of vegetation still producing seeds. So you know late summer you know if you need to do that to bring chainsaws I think that I'm speaking for myself but I think it would be okay. What about if I do the walkthrough with them and we actually need to do some of that dirt work towards the end would be have to wait until the end of the season to do that and that would be the only this year we wouldn't have to do that anymore you know go through there ever again it would be just the initial making of the trail. Which way would you come in from come in from the north or from the south. That would still to be determined because I think actually would probably be coming from the south Wendy because I know we had to do a little bit of work on some of the private land and we had let the landowners know that we'd be coming through so we'd probably come from the south side to do that little bit right there. When we why don't you find out if there's a problem for us then if there is we'll discuss how to do it. Okay that's great there's a one there was one other thing up there when we all when we all did our walkthrough and we kind of split off and the rest of us went all the way to the tower we noticed right at the guide wire where where we'd have to turn and go under the guide wire towards the actual cell tower looks like it was going to be a little bit dangerous right there. So we were wondering if we could we walk through the woods and we were on the Berlin town forest and we can go right around the guide wire in the cell tower and cut right back on to the trail. So there was going to be a little bit of work right there just to stay away from that guide wire that's up there and maybe we could look at that. We should look at I can't visualize what you're saying but maybe we should take a look and see what you're talking about. Okay. Yeah and that's that was a place that I knew we were definitely going to look to have some work done and that would probably be accessed from the Darling Roadside you know because we'd be going doing all the ditching you know clearing the debris out of the ditches and fixing the water bars right at that same time. Hey Josh why don't you go to the meeting Wednesday night and propose a propose another walk through get a couple dates from them that might okay and then we can get back together with you and schedule that. Sure. You know I think I think that's probably the best way to proceed right now and then everybody you know we can go over a few other things you know that we may have a few dangling questions from our last walk that we want to just address to make sure we're on the same page but I think overall I think you know we have plenty of time we're moving forward. You know we've got the recommendations to report out all before June 1st we've already walked once with you I think we'll get another walk in I think you know things seem to be moving pretty well. Okay. Yeah so this walk would probably be just what we were going to initially do from the south south. Okay. Right. Thank you. Does the board have any additional questions about this management plan? Does the conservation commissioner you guys understand what we're looking for in the management plan? Some of the changes we've seen so far some of the things we've discussed this evening. Yeah. Listen what you've talked about is going to be in the agreement a corridor agreement. First it's the insurance if you look in the appendices where the corridor agreement is it talks about insurance. So that's not really in the management plan it's down in the agreement that we sign the annually with. Right. It's all part of the management plan. Yeah in the agreement is something that we wanted you to look at and also perhaps have some legal person look at it just to make sure it's it's good. Okay. Do we would we have Rob Halpert look at that at all for us or what does the board think? I think that's probably a smart thing. I don't know especially when it comes to the insurance side of things. Brad John flow any input? Yeah. He's their town lawyer. You know that's where it should go. Yeah. Let's forward it on and see what see what see what he feels about the changes. Okay, Vince. Yep. I will I'll work with the committee to get that just a reminder on this. The the management plan needs to be finalized and approved by the board before it goes to Vermont Land Trust for approval on this to wrap this up. Right. So so I think so we can need to look at a timeline. So we can get some overall feedback from from our town attorney see what he says and that'll help us determine a timeline if if he says yeah, it looks good overall. Then then I think we would be able to move forward. Mike, the concern would be if he if he said this is crazy no way. Then obviously that would determine it. That would be a different timeline. But any of these small minor changes wouldn't impact the overall aspect of the management plan. So we would we would be okay. Okay. Just for review the big thing you're talking about is the insurance and I just make sure that it all you're open for all future organizations and that the big thing is that if you're going to require insurance from one you didn't require it from any other. You know, I mean, I would make sure that the liabilities and the protections are there for the community. Just because it's standard for vast to have liability insurance doesn't mean that there's we don't need coverage from any of these other entities even if it's not standard in my opinion. Hey Justin, just yeah sorry just to note Mr. Staub as his hand up for a question. Go ahead Joe. So with all this talk about the trails I'm just going to ask just for the fire department say if we had to go up there is there been any thought of having maybe multiple access points to this trail or we're going to go in one way and travel X number of miles till we get to get to a point just something to think about. I think that that there should probably that's a great great point to bring up and does this management plan or include any emergency ingress in egress situations or scenarios or areas where we can alter. I mean obviously for UTV's ATV's things like that snowmobiles in the winter time does it address those definitely not then we probably should we're going to we're going to get moving on. So I think we've got we've got a fair amount there. We're going to send that on to the attorney and you guys can come back to the board with those changes as well because those are just minor revisions and we can send this off to Rob and start getting a better look at it and make sure the actual kind of structure the base of its good. The other the other piece on the agenda that went along with this was the Black Road bridge. Wendy had brought to my concern that maybe it wasn't properly warned and maybe that we use funds from a budget that that that we you know we didn't warn them properly as well. The questions about being capital improvement now when we made the motion to to use and also in there and it said that I'd like to add that the Conservation Commission meant with vast leadership on March 15th and we were told that they would be picking up the cost of the Black Road bridge. So for clarification vast was never going to be picking up the cost of the Black Road bridge. I'm not sure where that came from the all the conversations we've had in reference to vast and bridges has been that the town would like to own those bridges so that if we ever did rescind the trail use those would still be considered a those would still be considered the town's property so that those would may stay there. Otherwise if vast were to build them they would have the right to remove the bridges if they paid for the materials. Now that doesn't mean that vast isn't going to help provide an intense amount or an excessive amount of free labor. So the other piece of that is is that that there's an existing bridge on Black Road that people use for walking mountain biking. It's in dangerous repair the same scenario as the Darling Road bridge that we're looking at replacing that bridge on Darling Road. We're using funds from the Conservation Commission that were in the budget to answer your budget question. The question about using money from the budget for the wreck. We weren't we're actually using we weren't using money out of their budget. We're using money out of reserves. Just concerned. I just want to make sure that you know we don't get any surprises coming out of our conservation fund. Well, it sounded like in that question a lot of this you were concerned for the concert or the wreck as well. So those funds that we approve for usage though they were from the the were they the bike path fund Brad as you recall. You made the motion. I said there were some funds available from the bike path if it ran overage it would we could use those funds if I remember correctly. Brad can you you recall the motion. What Dave said is pretty close. It was the discussion went on about worry of the cost overrun. There is approximately. I'm guessing about 40,000 in the bike path fund. The as I explained the bike path that money was to be used to put a bike path down along the railroad tracks from in the Berlin section of the proposed bike path being buried in Montpelier. The railroad has since rescinded any right any usage of the of the right of way. So that money is sitting there. It's dedicated to a bike path. So like I said, I think any overages you could take out of the bike path fund and and do it with a clear conscience. Right. Now what about the funding for the the Black Road bridge itself? Where do we make that motion from? Do you recall? Then I can't remember that one. I thought it was the rec path or the bike path. Yeah. Like I said, even if the Black Road bridge to be repaired or to be improved as long as used by bicyclists, you can probably want to check with Rob, but you can probably take and use that bike path money for that. We've done we we used it for the bridge across across there by Champlain Valley equipment. Right. They gave them quite a chunk of it to do that bridge. I recall that now. I know that trail that road gets utilized an awful lot by mountain bikers going in from what the Boyard State Forest side up on Crosstown. They come down and then they go out Brookfield Road to Black Road and then back up to complete their loop that gets utilized a lot in the bridges and disrepair much like the Darling Road bridge. And it's rather dangerous and maybe I don't know if it's a liability to the town or not, but there was concerns about the warning of that. And and and so what I guess I'm looking for from the board maybe is a motion to do the Black Road bridge using bike path funds like we talked about the last meeting. I checked with Rob first. You would so. Yeah, what about our the initial the initial motion that was made by the Board of Trustees? Where do we go from there? We've given approval for for construction of these. We've given approval for funding. How should we proceed? You've got if you've got the funding now you put it out to bid. Well, we have the bridge is going to be built. So we've already we talked about snowville club. We already talked about material. We already talked about the materials and that was included in the approval that we gave at the last meeting. Remember when we talked about font font that was that was that was from Fontaine. That was for both bridges. For both bridges. Yeah, so that was for the approval for the materials for both bridges and the labor was completely covered. That's all here. So we already approved the materials at the last meeting. So I just want to see the board would like to proceed with that. Well, I don't I don't see why not because you were you you the way the emotion read was you weren't going to use the bike path funds unless there was an overage and as I understood it you were pretty well set on your prices. So you didn't have to worry about the overage. But so there was a concern that we didn't properly notify the recreation board that we were going to use those funds because we weren't using conservation funds for all of it. Does the board have any concerns with that? I'd check with the Recreation Committee and see if they have what if they really have any objections to it. I mean it the the the trail system is is part of the recreation committee's billywack really. Is anybody from the Recreation Committee on this meeting? No. Okay. Justin I feel I feel the motion the way that that went down is all right. If we haven't been contact contact can contacted excuse me by anybody on the Recreation Committee with with with any concerns about that this is a part of the recreation you know in town and I feel confident that we proceed the way we were if there was an overage and ultimately the select board would make the determination on how to use those funds. So I just exactly I just wanted I wanted to clear some air there. Yeah. No and I hear you. Why is it that we're not using any conservation funds for this? We are the only portion of them up to a certain dollar amount. So we're using conservation funds on the Darling Road Bridge but not the Black Road Bridge and and so you're wondering why we're not using conservation funds on the Black Road Bridge as well. Yeah. Well I think we were trying to help conserve some of their budget but I mean that's always an option as well because they had originally budgeted for five thousand dollars and we're coming in at three. But I mean we've already made made the determination but I understand your point John you weren't at that meeting. It's a great question. Something in for the the conservation fund the conservation fund is set up to buy land or or water to conserve. It's not set up if you read the guidelines which are on the website. It's not set up for infrastructure unless it is part of conserving land or water. So if you were going to pay five thousand dollars out of you're going to pay five thousand dollars out of that. Yeah. I think that was as I said at the last meeting I think that offer was made because the bridge was in bad shape or at the beginning of covid it was and I think Phil can talk to this one and I can but my understanding was that there was concern about finances going into the covid situation and the bridge needed to be repaired. Exactly. We're trying to be good neighbors and get it get it remediated as soon as possible and we had twenty five hundred twenty eight hundred dollars material and we were paying someone to help us construct the bridge. That's all change. Yeah. I think that but you can't we can't change the rules as we go right. Well we can take new information John and make new decisions or John we could go back and follow the guidelines that are out on the website and refinance the bridge from another source. Right. We don't have to use any conservation funds for the bridge that would be the appropriate thing to do at this point. Probably. We could probably shut the bridge down until we knew it. Right. And we could also I think it's just appropriate that these funds should either come out of recreation or possibly the bike path as Brad was initially stating because we know that the bike path as we envisioned it ten years ago or whenever I don't know Brad when did that funding come through eight ten years ago longer ago than that the the problem is is that the some of that money was donated some of it was voted in from the town budget. I'm guessing that was back in the late eighties early nineties the since since then as I said the but the bike path has pretty well gone by the way side but that money was still dedicated to the bike path. If you use it for a bike path in the town of Berlin or a bike path in general I think you're all right but like I said you want to check with Rob just to just to make sure but I think you're all right. All right. So I think we're going to move along to use the bike path money. We're going to move along. We're going to leave leave everything as it stood. Any other questions or concerns. All right. Fisher Road Culvert update. Tom would you like to brief him on the latest information that you have? I think Chip's here. So maybe Chip can speak to he is. You're right. Okay. Hello. You hear me? Yes. Hey work better than the last time. Yeah. That's some some talk about about that there and we've had a couple of discussions and we're really looking for is to change what we have as an easement there whether it be just a purchase of that section of the road that's a surface easement now by the town and including where the I don't know the the correct term for it but where the part of the culvert structure goes on to you incorporated land there either be you know a straight out purchase or change change from the surface easement as it is now I'd like to get out of the easement business a little bit if possible. So we don't have any problem with with the design. I think we've talked about that before and even with it you know what as it is right now you know using the land our land to to you know to do what constructions needed. No problem with that at all. Great Jim thanks. So you've got some info Tom you were just about to kick on that's fine. I'll let you speak to it. Yeah, I think you mentioned that you're looking at 30 K for the surface rights and some maybe some additional property there that this wing wall would go on. So I think that's the that's what the select board needs to to consider the mean 30,000 for all the subsurface rights as well. Right. I think that's what she told me. Yes, right. Yeah, and then my only my concern with that was you know any any impact or liability to the town so by by picking up that that property is there anything there that we would inherit that we were would maybe regret. So I think you know from from my conversations and in my thoughts I was thinking that maybe a purchase option entering into an agreement for a purchase option for $30,000 with some timelines would allow us to do our due diligence and also allow for planning to continue wouldn't hold up the project and I think it might make the most sense given given that I don't know what the board's opinion is or not but my sense is that there's little to no liability from for the town what's there it's we own surface and subsurface rights throughout the town and I don't think it's that's been an issue. My concern with any further delay is that we're just not going to make construction this this year. And what do you need to go forward now just to get this thing put to bed on this easement for VTrans to sign off the VTrans needs a letter from our attorney saying that all rights of way have been have been obtained. So does I mean what are we talking for a closing timeframe? Even if we entered into a purchase agreement instead of a purchase option we're still talking fair amount of time probably before we'd have an actual sort of closing. What is the the significance and difference or what would what you see any difference in those two? Do you see any concerns for delay entering into a purchase agreement now or purchase option either way? I would suggest that if Chip would agree that that if the slip word's going that route and negotiating in good faith that they do sign the easement as is and the easement's going to be temporarily because the town will own it once you do the purchase. So once we have that signed easement, they literally could sign that tomorrow and we would have the necessary easements we need to satisfy VTrans. So what we need a motion to proceed with a purchase? Is that what you'd be looking for? Is that what you're looking for? If that's what we would be looking for in order to proceed. Chip, how do you feel about how do you feel about what Tom just stated? Yeah, I don't I don't have a problem with that. I can I can try to get that looked at in a different way tomorrow. And if if if he doesn't have a problem with it and think that it's fine. I mean, I don't I honestly don't think, you know, I have a lot to worry about from the select board. So I mean, I don't know why. I don't know why it wouldn't be okay. I just want to make sure that I don't, you know, stick myself in a corner or you guys to be honest with you. So I will make a phone call early tomorrow morning and then I will get back to you if that works out for you. All right. How does it I don't see or I don't see I don't see a problem with that. How does the rest of the board feel? I think it's something we need to do. We shouldn't be messing around here with this. We should just get it going and time is of the essence. I think if we if we if we don't act on this now, the cost of concrete and stuff here and the foreseeable future is going to you know, we're going to put we're going to get ourselves painted into a corner that we don't want to be in. I think we need to get this thing done. John Brad flow. What account is the money coming out of? Where are we getting the money? Thirty three thousand dollars. Thirty. Is that is that the purchase price? Purchase price would be thirty thousand dollars. Vince any idea where we would fund this from Tom? I'll have to take a look. We've gotten this far. And like I get the need for it and I completely support it. We're about to make a motion and we don't have any idea where we get the funds from. Well, in all honesty, we just heard about this offer about an hour or two hours ago. So I believe the select board has reserve funds that we use some for the last budgeting process. I just don't know how all that works from Diane still on the phone here or not. I know she's still here. Oh, she's not. Well, I think that I think that could be worked out too. If it you know if it if it's not a get it all at once. I mean, I don't know why that wouldn't be why that wouldn't be okay. I'm sure we have a chip. It was it was a pretty simple accounting question. Just curious what count right it was coming out of. But remember remember we're taking a loan out for this. So this would be an eligible expense in the loan for this project. Oh, yeah. That could that be tied in with the culvert itself? Tom, that is we we have tight. Okay, correct. The loan for the culvert to one point. Well, the project's one point four million. But the slip word is has to use some dedicated funds. So it's I think we're borrowing one point one or one point two million. John sounds like sounds like you might have an idea where we should get this from. Do you care? Do you care to make a motion? No. How would how would you how would you honestly? I know at this at this moment I don't know what the motion would be where we chips got to check in with his team tomorrow to make sure everything's okay. But I mean, what are we making a motion on here, Justin? Well, we're looking to make a motion to purchase the property from Ligia, Inc. for thirty thousand. We don't really know where the funding would come from which I agree with. We don't I mean, I don't know if the has as the board seen a recent copy of our map of what we'd actually be purchasing with the thirty thousand. Have we have any of that? So you got it here. So I make a motion to authorize the Ten Administrator to enter into a purchase sales agreement for easement rights on Fisher Road in the amount of thirty thousand dollars. Can I get a second? Any any discussion? Any discussion? I just wanted to say that thirty thousand dollars to taking. Sorry, Brad, what? You said that thirty thousand dollars come come out of the loan money. It's an eligible expense. Okay. And Chip, are we just purchasing the easement subservice easement or what are we purchasing here? We're I don't know if that would be easier and faster to be honest with you because that would my issue of the way the original is is it was written is what my responsibilities would be in the future for items that are in that easement and then would also be for that little piece where the wing wall is there. But you know, as far as that goes, whatever whatever is most expeditions so we can get it done if it if it just turns that from a surface easement into a full blown, you know, easement like you normally would have if that works better. Or if it's the actual piece of property that's it would be to you know, the edge of the road. I don't know how much that helps you or not. Yeah, I think it's a combination of two things. Brad, it's the subsurface rights that Chip mentioned. And then he also he is correct. They're probably some additional real property real estate there that where this wing wall is going to go and he said he's going to give us a temporary construction easement to allow us to do the construction over his land. So I would amend my motion to for the sale of property and easement rights. That should give the town administrator and a flexibility to just sales. All right, I second that that one sounds a lot more. That one sounds better to me. I think the one was kind of vague when it was saying about easement easement instead of the real property. Well, you could have made it instead of the case. Well, I was trying to think of how to do it. So I was kind of, you know, probably right where you were and thought. All right. Any additional discussion? All those in favor say I. Why? Hi. Hi. Grace. Perfect. Thank you, Chip. Appreciate it. Nope. No problem. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I'll be in contact tomorrow, Tom. Excellent. Thank you. Approvals of license permits, vouchers and applications. Come on, Flo. I know you got that right there. Can I get a second? Second. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. Hi. Did we get David John? Yeah, I said I. All right. Motion carries. March 8th minutes. Sorry about that. I was on mute. I didn't realize I was on mute that whole time. I was trying to ask a question specific to the payroll. Oh, go ahead. I can bring it up after since we've gone past it. If you want in the round table, there's no action associated with it. So I can bring it up then if you want. Yep. Let's do that. Mr. Chair March 8th minutes. Sorry, John. I didn't know I skipped ahead of you. March 8th minutes. We get a. I'd make a motion to accept the March 8th minutes as presented. Any discussion? Those in favor say I. Hi. Motion carries. April 19th minutes. I don't think I was there to that whole meeting. I think I actually had. That knocked off the web at that one. Yep. I wasn't in attendance on that one. I make the motion to approve the April 19th minutes as presented. I think in a second. Second. Yeah. Second. Any discussion? Those in favor say I. I. Staying. I have to abstain. We're waiting on John. I apologize. I was trying to make sure I was at that meeting. I can't find those minutes. April 19th. Okay. So we'll put those on. That's the only reason. Well I just. If someone could tell me if I was in attendance. I just have all the documents open here. I'm trying to look through them to find the right one. It was over the kids April vacation. I I chaired the meeting. I don't think you were there John. I don't think you were there. This is the one that the chief. I think you and Justin were both absent in that meeting. This is the one that the chief talked about the hilltop. I believe you and Justin were absent. Then I was definitely there. So I'll go with I. All right. Motion carries. Roundtable. John. Yep. I just had some questions looking at the payroll warrants. Then it looks like our overtime continues to continue to be an issue looking at where we are with budget to actuals specifically the the assistant time administrator position as one and then I'm trying to figure out it looks like every week there's ongoing overtime in the highway department and I'd like there to be a way for the select board to understand what it is and how we're approving overtime in those areas. So so thinking about it so I see Saturday someone went out for three hours and then a number of times during the week there was one or two hours here or there and normally you know it happens I get it but we're going from a you know $25 an hour rate to a $40 an hour rate when it comes to highway as an example. So I'm wondering how does that get approved every you know every day obviously isn't an emergency so I'm wondering improving the overtime. It should be me. That's the answer. The Saturday one I can speak to some of the others I can't yet and I'm trying to develop at least some sort of call call me right basis. If it's something that comes up like that so there aren't any surprises John I don't have it in place yet but that's the first method and the quickest one right is just a call me night or day if something comes up you got to do some urgent overtime. Saturday I know about because I came down and directed traffic on the pain turnpike south for the hole in the road until they got there. So I'm working on putting something in place to get that under control. Yeah and you know even it can be something simple like you know you know hole in the road three hours whatever it is but there's no description on any of that and in some of the cases I can kind of I can make an assumption about what's going on but if we could get some kind of process in place there that'd be really helpful. Well yeah no we need to and I agree we need to understand again it's only going to help us going forward with you know our budgets as well if we know what's happening and when it's happening we can plan accordingly and better manage it. So I'll have something in place hopefully in the next couple of weeks to mitigate some of that it won't be perfect but it'll help bring it under control. So can you can you just put that down to give us an update on our next meeting on where you're at with that. Anything else John for round table. No I would just say overall looking at the April statement it looks like overall we're doing pretty well but as I brought up during the good Samaritan conversation our police department budget is way over from a full time officer and part time overtime as well as part time officer and I'm wondering what what we're doing in order to you know bring that down. So I can speak briefly on that John and I've been in discussions with Ben Rose with regards to getting some reimbursement for all the overtime it's I can't quote the chief on it but I think it's somewhere in the five thousand dollar range specifically related to the hilltop issues. And what he's told me at this point is there will be money in the ARPA program for the municipalities to use to pay for that. If if there isn't he is looking at some alternative plans that we may be able to apply for that he'll help us with to get that back but he will be able to get that back. And the quickest and easiest is what he's looking at coming out in the ARPA funding that we'll be able to dedicate that overtime cost and recover that from those funds. So that'll help to some degree from what the chief's been tracking on that. So hopefully bring it back to more in line with the budget. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just I'm just waiting on more information to come out from from Ben and from the ARPA on that to have a better answer. So thank you. Okay. Thank you all. Anything else John. I just got one thing real quick and I talked to Tom Tom and I was going with all these new buildings and stuff and the possibilities of either contract and maybe with Barry or Montpair for building inspections. You know we're giving all these building permits out and the only reason I bring this up is I had a woman call me I think it was a week ago Sunday she had contracted somebody to do a deck and a roof for her and I was appalled when I get there and I was like I don't want to do that. I don't want to just structurally sound. There's got to be some kind of recourse or we could start looking to in the town as we're growing to maybe having a building inspector. So I think that goes along Dave with part of what we talked about with the fire department. We need to have building inspectors bring in the I mean I think that we need to have we need to have a conversation around it. I don't know that I don't know that subbing it out to another municipality is an option realistically. I don't know if that is but I definitely think that we could probably take a good look at some of their procedures and some of the ordinances that they have but we got I mean we need to have we need to have at least on the commercial side I mean the residential side would take a while but I feel like if we don't put some of this in on the commercial side we're going to be behind behind when the trains already left the station. Exactly. No that's why only reason I brought it up is because I'm seeing some of this out there and I'm sure you have it seems like there's more you know with the state not having a contractor's license or anything like that you're getting more and more of the you know everybody's got a saw and a hammer and they're a contractor. I think that us going forward we need to start really thinking about you know whether it's through the fire department which is a good start but making sure that we need to have a code and code enforcement. Exactly. So it's something we need to start talking about. Okay. So let's let's do some research. I know you like doing that and you can figure out what we should start the conversation. How's that? I will I will get on it. Thanks Dave. Anything else Brad? Flo? Anything for round table? Nothing for me. No. Nothing for me Brad? No. I'm all set. Okay. No executive session right Vince? That's correct. Entertain a motion to adjourn. Make a motion. All right. I'll say we got a second there. Yep. Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you very much. Bye everyone.