 So the general question is how come that we are now living time in what they call populism or whatever you want to call it and more and more of a critic regimes, why is that now quote-unquote more or less becoming the new rule instead of old-fashioned liberal democracy based on liberal values? I think I would want to ask the question whether we maybe in the submerged sense but nonetheless in the real sense many people, certainly many people in the west and the other parts of the world, whether, not whether we accept right now the whole package called liberal democracy but do we accept core moral principles on which the liberal democracy is built and core moral principles on which it is built are two. That is one is the freedom of conscience and the other one is equal dignity of every person and equal voice in running the public affairs and it would seem to me that although it seems that we are in the process of anti-democratization so to speak in the world today nonetheless for many people these two core or three core principles they remain stable and I think I would want to build upon these principles and strengthen so that we can build the kind of institutions that are appropriate to local situations but that embody these two principles will have plurality then will have the ability to live together as different. Let me say something the way I see it, you know Russia is not a liberal democracy and though it has certain people certain I would say virtual community of those who say that they share these liberal democratic principles but actually they do not because they have their own little dictatorship and you cannot trust them in no way. Now what happens? Russia is an autocratic state always has been always it was never interrupted by any democracy at all so you have to take that into consideration talking about this country. It's the same thing as with many Middle Eastern countries governments they are based on different principles which Americans who enter the country did not understand they may have been horrible in many ways but you should not break these principles or suggest some western approach to Iraq or whatever otherwise you get what you get. Now about Russia the way there are people in Russia who are not being Christians no but having this really loving hearts understand that some huge problems should be dealt with one of them is no doctors and no hospitals for children with oncology right? So in order to build these hospitals out of nowhere the government doesn't want to listen about it doesn't want to hear there was a woman an actress Chulpan Hamatova is her name she couldn't stand it she couldn't see it she had some money of her own and she was very loved by people she's a good actress and a very nice person she started this program trying to make the government build this huge hospital for children with oncological diseases and in order to get some money to fundraise she went as far as to meet Putin and he was because no one wanted actually to say yes finally here's my signature all money that was promised was somewhere disappeared quickly there were many marathons fundraising marathons but money did disappear so she needed a support a really solid support so she went as far as to meet Putin and he helped her so the hospital with all doctors everything was built now this liberal public started hating Chulpan they hated her so much they just shamed her they said all kind of dirty things about her because she dared to contact Putin and Putin is bad and Putin is a dictator so to hell with your you know ill children the moral principles are much more important for them this is one extreme case and another one is right now these days yesterday I read more news about it there is another woman Anna Federmaster she and her mother her late mother were the founders of the hospices for terminally ill people who are terminally ill because these people they didn't get any relief they couldn't get pain killers nothing like that they just stayed in their apartments in horrible pain they did a great work and they built hospices all around the cities and they saved this pain and these last you know sufferings for many people and also she went as high as far as first the mayor of Moscow whom everyone hates for many reasons and then up to Putin so the last I saw yesterday was her photo she and Putin they sit in front of each other and discussing things when I see these photos I know that the people who and it may be me tomorrow you know who will suffer from this incruciating pain with no way out because the only way out is dying you know she's saving their people you cannot imagine the wave of hatred that this liberal public you know had pushed against her it's like a tsunami so to hell with these people who have moral principles I prefer staying with those who have this heart you know going to children and old people they gain nothing tiny of it but the same Putin has also been responsible for extraordinary cruelty yes I mean you're giving instances of benevolent no I know the thing is that this this cruelty would have happened anyway sure sure this is what my idea is that's how this type of countries are how they run the discussion lacks is historical perspective I mean liberal democracy is what 100 150 years old probably not 200 years old and it is a kind of miracle that it came into existence and one of the things we don't know wait wait but one of the things you learn about all forms of progress is that progress is never linear and it's never inevitable and it's never irreversible so that the struggle it's there will never come a time when the whole world will be once and for all liberal democratic it's like the beginning of that film Mr. Incredible when they're interviewing and they say to him aren't you tired of rescuing people and he says yeah I saved the world but the world just won't stay saved I mean you know those liberal those principles of which I spoke earlier are centuries old they have to take political form because they have to have something to do with how political power relates to them right but my point is you're absolutely right my point is Russia is not a liberal democracy it's very very far from it why doesn't it you know try to pick up this you know to have America as a model for different reasons but while it doesn't happen those who they the public you know the community which could have been a community of people who would somehow help transfer the principles of liberal democracy to Russia they spend their time on hatred and hate it towards those who are doing something not being Christians in both cases so do you think that democracy is not a universal concept this is what people say about Muslim societies that they're just not I'm I think I'm not sure but I think that Russia is a hybrid society in this respect because the idea of democracy is not completely rejected you know in Russia the the society is loose in this way in many ways religiously loose in many other ways and it is rather but would you have considered it good if Russia became a liberal democracy it will not it will not become a liberal democracy no conservative democracy what is liberal democracy I don't I don't know but when there were efforts of establishing democracy in early 90s then people chose for example the governors of the city the mayor's from the bandits because these bandits they already stole killed enough people and stole enough money to give people promises and people promise okay this is how democracy worked they were very democratic it was very democratic procedures and so it happened once and then the second time the third time and of course when you see it and you think okay that these people they're really crazy and it will lose everything and these people will stop let's just go around these principles so you start going around these principles and you end up with autocracy