 Hello and welcome to my show. I hope you folks enjoyed our two-part series on the new era of gay rights in America. We have a new president. The impeachment trial is over and now our country is hopefully gonna move forward in one of the areas in which we're gonna have improvement is in the area of gay rights. I wanna thank my guests on that show, my daughter, Nicole Runlet, who co-authored the book with me Full Circle, Father's Journey with the Transgender Child. I wanna thank Sarah McDaniel, the president of PFLAG, and I wanna thank David Webb and also my neighbor, who's looking at our house right now just above me, Beth Tyler, who is a member of the PFLAG organization. But today we switched topics, folks. We switched topics to something that has been front-page all over Portland. It's been on the Today Show. It's been on the national news. It is how do we get the kids back in the school? Are we gonna get them back in the school? And this article in the Portland Press Farrer last week, it says, get high schoolers back in the classroom. The one word that's missing from this article is how? How do we get the kids back to a semblance of normalcy? My guests this afternoon are two experts. They are teachers. One who's been a teacher for close to five decades, a man of my generation, and the other who we actually learned from that teacher, and is now teaching at Capellisburg, school system in Capellisburg High School. Steve Hill, welcome aboard. When I look at your resume, Steve, all I can do is think of the connections I have to my own life. And first of all, you were a driver's ed teacher, which I thought was the most important course that I took in high school next to typing. You coached track. I'm still running track. You coached junior high basketball. I played junior high basketball. You were a negotiator for the teachers. I was a city attorney doing negotiation. And last but not least, you teach the course that I was my major at Bowdoin Civics. Steve, you were substitute teaching just before COVID, correct? I substituted the day before I went for a week in Florida and never went back in mid-March. I've been retired for six years and have subbed fairly regularly during that time and really enjoyed it and missed it a great deal during the shutdown. Now, my first question, Steve would be, I substituted taught when I was in law school. And the only way I could get those kids to obey me, I would tell them that I'd keep them to school till nine o'clock because I wasn't in the school labor system. Were the kids respectful at this day and age to substitute teachers? Well, I found that the only place I've subbed is my old school where I have a little bit of a reputation still, I suppose. And if anybody is not very cooperative, I just say the assistant principal is a good friend of mine. And that usually takes care of it. Well, yeah, that sounds like a good way. I used to just tell the threat these kids, they stayed on school till nine o'clock. My second guess, folks, the greatest compliment to a teacher is to become a teacher. And Ted Jordan is a teacher at Cape Elizabeth School. The Jordan name is a well-known name in Cape Elizabeth, we all know it. Ted, welcome aboard. One of the jobs that you have, Ted, other than all these teaching government, teaching civics, teaching social studies is you are a head of the Senior Transition Project. Tell us what that is. First of all, Derry, thank you for having me on and this is a great moment for me to be reunited with my former teacher and basketball coach, Steve Hill. We've become friends over the last few years on Facebook, but I think it's the first time we've seen each other in many, many years. I've been teaching there for 24 years and it was probably in year three or four, Derry, where we hired a math teacher and that math teacher was the former principal of Shevers High School, Dave Greeley. And he approached us midway through the year to help us address, I think, the perennial problem of how to keep students' attention, especially seniors, towards the end of their senior year. And so the proposal was, and what we've been doing for I think 20 years now is, as soon as the last AP exam is over in mid-May, all the students go out into the community, to businesses and other organizations to give back or to job shadow. And I have to tell you, Derry, when it was first proposed to me, I was skeptical because like Steve, I loved what I do and it meant me basically giving up a unit. But after the first year or two, the feedback I got from the community was incredible. And I'm a firm believer in still heading it up today. Ted, one of the questions I wanna ask is at Cape Elizabeth, right now, kids are actually doing both there, doing virtual learning and in school, is that correct? That's right. So we teach what's called a hybrid model. So I have half of my class there one day in person, half zooming in the following day they switch places. Right. And much of the article in the Portland papers where parents expressing their dismay that in Portland they have the hybrid system for the lower grades, but for the upper grades, those kids are still in virtual learning. The kids are expressing difficulty where they'd be able to catch up or we're not gonna do well in the test. Are you worried as much about these kids taking these tests as much as these people are expressing or are you not concerned about that? Well, I'm concerned about this. I first of all, I'm very glad that we've been in this hybrid model. I was part of a committee over the summer that looked at it with administrators and other teachers. And we made some tough decisions and the ventilation system was improved and we've done everything I think you hear Anthony Fauci and others saying, which is, you know, my classroom went from a classroom of 25 desks to 11. We socially distance there are dispensers for the antibacterial at various places around the building and in my room. And Dairy, I think it's been, I'm sure it's been for the best that students are at least in now two days a week. And as far as the test you're referred to, I'm thinking of my AP guys and they're gonna be taking a test in mid-May. And the bummer for us is that the college board who runs the AP system has said that they're gonna hold students accountable for what they typically do even though we have 40% of instructional time. And that's universal. So it's not just here in Maine where we've been dealing with, you know, lower instructional time. It's all across the country. Steve, I wanna ask you this question and it plays right off what Ted just said. You sent me an article from Alfie Cohn and it's all about his learning what kids are doing when they're out of school. And it says, he says this, the pressure to raise test scores exacerbates an already disturbing dynamic whereby the rich get richer and the poor get worksheets. So here, Ted has just told us that we're gonna force you kids to the same standards. Steve, how important is it that these kids just interact with each other as opposed to testing? That's for you, Steve. Well, I think in what schools have gone through since last March, I think most people that care about kids would agree that the test scores no need to take, you know, kind of a backseat to things. I know a lot of people that are anxious to get kids back in school point to mental health issues. Yes. For some kids and for some areas, it seems to be a very legitimate concern. It seems like during the pandemic, we need to, you know, imagine every individual situation. You know, no school is the same and certainly no household is the same. I mean, I know kids who have seemed to have thrived in a virtual education with parents at home, maybe they have the luxury of working from home and are kind of happy to have their kids around. But in other situations where the parents work outside the home and really have to be there and the children are alone, just keeping their own mental health and wellbeing in mind. Just say nothing of some schools that kids that are food insecure where some of the best meals of the day they would get if they were in the school building. So there's so many competing interests when you say open the schools. What does that really mean? I don't think if right this moment it doesn't usually mean to return to what was normal last February, let's just say. A year ago. A year ago. And Steve, it's like you're reading my notes because some of the things I wanted to mention, I'm gonna get back to you Ted. Steve mentioned something that the children, the kids are mentioning, their mental health, their isolation, missing their friends. So I think the new normal quote unquote, what is normal is to make those kids realize that it's just, it's good to be back. The Emily brothers, when they first did their reunion concert Phil said, it's good to be back. So Ted, the kids in your school, I wanna ask you, do they seem to enjoy themselves just being in school now when they, because they lost it and now they've got it? Do they feel happy? Oh, I think they're over the moon. You know, they probably wouldn't have admitted that a year ago, but as Steve referred, and I think you did as well, we started this mid-March a year ago. And so we went through the whole spring and then when we planned for the summer and we all came back again, half at a time, I think students are learning better in person. And I think they're happier to be back in these classrooms with their friends. Sports and clubs, Derry are functioning but at a limited capacity. And Ted, that was gonna be my next thing. I remember when I was in high school in the 60s, I can't tell you what it meant to be in sports, whether they'd be intramural or varsity and also to interact with kids of my own age. One of the questions I wanna ask you, it's gonna sound funny, but before COVID, could a teacher touch a student on the arm? Could a coach go up and pat a kid on the back? Is that allowed anymore? Yeah, I think it's all in context, but yeah, the scenarios you're describing, Derry, for sure. I mean, I have no problem just putting my hand up before COVID, of course, putting my hand on a shoulder to just say, hey, nice job or touching someone's elbow. Hey, that's exactly what I'm talking about there. So as long, you put it in that sort of context, yes. What's gonna be more informal? I do not know. But can you do it now with the COVID that you can't touch them now? Can you, because you're supposed to be the distance? Correct. Yeah, not only not touch each other, but again, maintain that six-foot distance, obviously while masked. The weirdest thing, and Steve, you can appreciate this. I'm a 30, 31-year veteran, but this past, since September at least, I feel like a rookie again, because we're using the technology that we are using now for this show. At the same time, when students get up to leave, I've gotta take this disinfectant and spray all the desks, wait five minutes. Meanwhile, students who usually would come in at that point are hanging in the hallway and then they come in. So between making sure that the technology is working, I have this really nice camera in my room with a really fine microphone, which is the third one so far, and it's the better one yet. Between all of it, Dairy, it's quite a bit to take in. Steve and Ted, one of the things that I wanted to say was that I recall my teachers, Phil Gerber, my fifth and sixth grade principal, when he would come up to me in the playground and put his hands on my shoulders and talk to me and told me to go ring the bell in front of all the other kids. And within a minute, the bell rings and I would say to myself, that would make my day. When my father died, my teacher coming up and putting their hand on my shoulder and Phil Gerber, the same person, when I was out of control, putting his hand on my neck and a little bit of a squeeze, those were the things, those moments of the teacher. That's what we loved about you folks that we could trust you. Steve, do you think these kids are losing any trust for the educational system because they're not in school that much? Oh, that's a tough one for me, Dairy not having been in the building for almost a year, but I would guess not so much. I don't think, I think they understand most of them depending on age, of course, that this is unprecedented times. And I think if anyone can see how hard teachers and administrators try to do something in a building, it's frequently the children. And I'll put a plug in for teachers. I mean, it's not an easy job to start with. I mean, I did it for 42 years and when you're retired, you get to look at it a little bit from afar. But if anybody is really trying to make things work now, it's the teachers. I mean, I talked to a lot of teachers during this time and they say, Steve, every day is new. You know, a new plan, a new COVID numbers, a new theory, you know, new technology, new applications. It hasn't been easy and like all Americans, the teachers are trying to make their own families go and they're concerned for, if they have children, they're concerned for their children. If they have elderly parents, of course they're concerned for them. I mean, there's just a lot of concern and fear. It makes it hard to sort out what is right sometimes when you're concerned and afraid. Ted, first of all, Steve, I was gonna joke and you say, well, we all know that your teachers have been overpaid all these years. It's a standard joke, but we all know that that is not the case. You folks are among the most important of the professions and yet you're on, especially in Maine, lower end of the scale. Ted, we know that these kids have strong emotional needs. They have physical needs, artistic needs, social needs, but moral needs. With all that's going on in the country, Ted, you are teaching the very course that we're dealing with every day with this impeachment and the separation of powers and stuff. How are these kids gonna understand the morality that's necessary when you got competing sides? Are you seeing that in the Cape Elizabeth school system where there are competing ideas of morality? Well, you know, you put your finger on something. I feel I'm the luckiest because I get to teach government and it seems like the government has gone out of its way the last four years to bring, my students will come in now and say, hey, did you see what the president did? Well, yes, as a matter of fact, let's talk about that. So it's certainly heightened interest in my subject matter. And I think it's a high interest subject matter anyway. So I think the biggest thing that we as a country have to overcome is we've got two groups of citizens who get their sources of news from different sources. And neither the twain shall meet, right? And so I don't know, I'm curious about Steve's thoughts on that. I don't know how we overcome that except, you know, again, there's a full unit on the media and government and I simply say to students of all stripes, I know you've got your favorite news source, but try this one once in a while or the technology that we're using now guys, you guys can go on to international sources and they're in English. So find a non-American source and just the best thing you can do is compare sources. So Ted, you like most teachers want to lead us the students into another direction. And I've got to say, Ted, when I was in Orno, Ohio, we didn't have civics. So we had a history and but the history teacher was doing current events, talking about the Middle East. They're talking about countries I'd never heard of. And some of my friends were so intellectual they could have these discussions with them, but I was unable to because I was too busy reading the comments and listening to rock and roll. So Ted and Steve, I'll open up with you Steve. Steve, what do you tell these teachers from Portland High with all of your experience? What is the first thing they do with these kids when they come back to school? What sort of vibe do they give off? Oh, wow, Derry. You know, I think try to return, I guess as much as you can be to a sense of normalcy. I mean, schools are, you know, every day is different, but also in the background is a sense of routine. I think, I mean, that's kind of the balance, I think, of a classroom. The kids want to know what to expect, but then they want to expect the unexpected, you know, to spice things up a little bit, have a little sense of excitement, have a little fun from time to time. So I think as, you know, as kids get back, whether it's a hybrid model, which seems like might work for the next, as long as COVID is an issue, a hybrid model seems to provide some normalcy and some safety, but, you know, let the kids know that there's a sense of normalcy and they are going to learn some things and people are out there to care for them and ask them to ask the students to speak up and explain what they need, whether it's academic or emotional, you know, communication is always a key point of education and I think probably much more so now. So the point that the point I'm getting from you, Steve, in that comment is that there needs to be this communication no longer the teacher just standing up there, this is our class for the day, the teacher is going to be aware that these students are going to have some pent up emotions, first of all, pent up emotions. And so Ted, I get to this question, discipline has got to take sort of a back seat, has it not, don't we have to cut these kids some slack when they get back into school? Yeah, absolutely, I do feel though, I'm blessed and I think Steve probably says the same thing of his years at Greeley. I mean, at Cape, there's a critical mass of students who take academics seriously and so those who might be on the periphery can't really find anyone to join with and of course the parents value education in the home. So it's really been one of the great blessings of my life to teach in a school like this. But to get back to what Steve was saying, I couldn't agree more with him about, you know, they're there to learn and I'm not a social worker, I'm not a guidance counselor, so I'm doing my job. But at the same time, I'm hoping to make it interesting. As you were saying, Dary, I use as much current events as I possibly can connect it to the lessons that we're learning. And I think you add that all up together and it pays off in spades. One of the things that concerns me is not only the mental health, but the physical health of these children. And Steve, you made a comment about the food and maybe the most well-balanced meal some of these kids get. One of the questions I wanna ask you, Ted, is at Cape Elizabeth, it's an upper-level income community. Are kids who are not so technically savvy or have the technical attributes, are they at a disadvantage than the kids that have all the technological aspects, that's the iPhones, the iPads, whatever? Are they better off, Ted? Well, I mean, at very least, you know, all of us here in this I-295 corridor here, Wi-Fi is not an issue for our students. Our students in Cape have iPads, many of them own, their families bought them their own laptops. And I think that's probably true for Scarborough, Falmouth, Greeley, you know, this whole stretch of the state. And as far as the question you asked, Dary, I think a lot of the students who are in that situation, when they're in class on, you know, that every other day scenario, I have found myself learning from my own students about converting something to a format that they can use. And so those students, Dary, who are kind of behind the curve, they're helped out by their classmates. So, Ted, you're seeing an air of cooperation between students as opposed to competition. I felt the same way when I went to main law school. I just felt that the people in my class were as helpful as they were competitors. And that is an atmosphere that you can foster, Cape Elizabeth. Can that atmosphere be fostered in other schools? Well, I think so. I mean, again, I think the teacher can kind of set the tone. You know, I show that I'm vulnerable. I'll, you know, wade out into the audience and, hey, which of these buttons do I push to make, you know? And so I think that lowers their garden so they feel better about it. So I think as long as the teacher sets the tone, yes, I think it can work in other communities. I'm sure it does. Steve, I'm gonna bring you into this question because you are the senior deacon of a church of which I'm very fond. And I was most impressed when I first heard you and turned to my wife and said, he must be a teacher. We've got to understand that with all the discussions of politics and COVID and the fear that has been generated in this country, Steve, I know we are not allowed to teach religion in schools, but how do we keep these kids on a spiritual focus as well as all the other things that they've got in mind? How do we keep them focused on the quote, higher power that they have to think about? Well, I mean, as you say, schools do teach about religions, but they can't be religious, I guess when they're doing it, so to speak. I think maybe the golden rule is, I don't know if that applies here or not, but I think it applies to life in general. Doing to others is you would have them do unto you. An act of kindness is never wasted. I mean, I guess that's a cliche, but I think it's an important thing to remember, especially during this time of COVID, that kindness and compassion and understanding from the student to the person running the cash register at your grocery store to the person in the pharmacy, I mean, I think we all need that to give a little mini-ceremony. And I think kids will appreciate that. Kids are probably frightened as much as we all are. Nobody wants to get COVID, but nobody wants to sit at home alone all day either. So how do you work that balance out? Well, I have to say, in my own life, one thing that I have in this COVID situation is an appreciation for those people in the grocery stores. They're doing these tasks for very low dollars per hour. Let's face it, you have to sit and take care of people all day long at a store or whatever. And I have learned respect. That's another thing. And Ted, one of the things that I like a lot about the Cape Elizabeth school system is I've been watching and reading about it is the element of respect. And our signs around the community, black lives matter, rainbow signs, the cooperating. There's one thing that I've enjoyed about this community and I have to say to those people from Portland, Portland's the same way. Portland, South Portland, Scarborough, the communities that we have here. Ted, as we get on a close here, is there one thing that you're learning today that's so different than a year ago in your classroom? So there's one thing that's really different. Can you tell me what that might be? Well, I mean, on a very basic level, being competent with this technology. In terms of the subject matter, again, I tried to make it the same as my course because it's a social studies class is discussion-based. So I try to avoid the lectures. And instead, as I think you or Steve were saying earlier, using this technology with half the students in my classroom and half the students zooming in like we're doing now, I'm constantly calling on a person in the classroom and then a person at home and then mixing it up and asking someone at home to respond to what someone in the classroom just said. And thank goodness I now have this really high technologically sound device that not only the camera aims at whoever's speaking. So the students at home are seeing their classmates talking. And the microphone is now so good that it picks up people from the back row. And I just think doing discussion-based, people get to feel like, hey, I had my say. And maybe I didn't understand that other point of view, but now I've heard her talk about that. I might want to hear a little bit more about it. So I think we are respectful towards students. We create a climate of respect. And I think it, again, it plays out and it works. It works well for us. I learned something just now in the last two minutes that I did not know that these virtual and in-class things were happening at the same time. I thought the kids were at home with virtual. Now you're telling me that you're able to mix it up to get the kids at home? That in itself, I think is a lesson for the people watching this, that folks, the teacher will know how to bring this together, the virtual versus the in-class. I'm, we're running out of time. I knew this was gonna go very fast. Steve, thank you so much. You were the epitome of the kind of teacher that I grew up with. Ted, you are an inspiration. I know that the kids of Capel is, but really respect you when Steve selected you. I knew that I had the right guy. I can't thank both of you enough. This will play for the entire month. And folks, we'll see you next month on the Derry Run That Show. Thank you so much, both of you gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you, Derry.