 I want to welcome each and every one of you to the non-profit show. We are coming up on our 300 episodes soon. Super excited for that and super excited to have the continued support by each and every one of these presenting sponsors that you see right in front of you on the screen. So please do go find them online. They're very easy to find and give them some love, like, follow, all that good stuff. And if you've been following any of our sponsors lately, if you're bored, you might have seen went viral with his space dog. So that was super cool and fun to see the space dog of Jeb Banner. So anyway, check that out because, you know, if you know, you know, Julia Patrick, thank you for having us, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransom as I reach for my glasses, also the non-profit nerd. I'll have to send you a pair of Samantha. Most of the YNPN Phoenix members already have a pair. So I'm going to send you a pair there. But CEO of the Raven Group and this week has been chocked full with so many amazing guests, so many amazing voices across our nation. And next week is, you know, going to be even bigger, even greater as we continue towards our 300th episode. But today I am so thrilled to announce and to invite Samantha. Oh, gosh, here we go. Alari Lika. Did I get that right? Alari Lika. Alari Lika, I told you. I'm Alari Lika, Director of Customer Success and one amazing rock star who's joining us today from Bordable. Welcome. Thank you. I'm really excited to connect with another non-profit nerd. It's, you know, Samantha, it's really cool because we we were getting ready on our chat chat and I just have to witness to everybody. You recognized Jared's name. You're on, you're still on the national board or you just rolled off of YNPN? I just, I just rolled off after four years of service with the National YNPN Board and really amazing experience that I'll speak to you today. Yeah, tell us about YNPN really quickly before we ask you more about Bordable. YNPN is a young non-profit professionals network. Been around for over 20 years. It's one of the largest capacity building organizations in the nonprofit sector. It's completely volunteer run investing in the next generation of young non-profit leaders and and those who are working in just the social sector in general. But the mission is to build a diverse and powerful social sector. Love it. Love it. Wow, what a great representative you are for them. Yeah, so yay team. OK, well, we didn't even know about that. We had no idea. We're not surprised having chatted with you, but more importantly, we wanted to talk to you about recruiting board members virtually. And in the chat chat, Jared mentioned, you know, the number of nonprofits that she's been talking with that are like, oh, you know, board cultivation. It's just stopped because we can't do it during the pandemic. And then, you know, her whole thing is like, no way, lean in. There are things you can be doing. Don't let this time lapse. And so we can't wait to hear what you have to say about that. In the context of Bordable and being a board portal that we highly love and recommend, talk to us about what you're seeing. I mean, are you hearing the same things? Yeah, you know, it's interesting if we think back a year ago, folks, we're just figuring out how to do that first virtual board meeting, right? And I talked to a lot of it to a year ago, board members, one particular board member that comes to mind, had had more board meetings in a month and engaged more with their board than they had in like the prior year. So I actually think it's the best time to be recruiting for board members. Both in terms of we see and hear from a lot of organizations that they're going to be continuing with a virtual or a hybrid format. So there's opportunities to engage individuals that may not have been able to serve on your board before, but also to be mindful that your existing board may be perhaps experiencing burnout or just we've all cooked with so much in the past year. Right? So a lot of organizations are right now thinking about rebuilding and re-energizing their boards. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's really critical. And, you know, I did and I shared that in the Chitty Chat Chat session that so many organizations were like, well, we can't meet right now. So we can't clearly we can't develop our board. And I was like, I disagree wholeheartedly disagree. And as a proud disruptive innovator, right? I clearly spoke my voice on that because now is the time to lean in and now is the time when there are so many people actively engaging through altruistic actions. That is a lot of words to say together, but actively engaging through that. I've warned you guys, I had my coffee. You know, is really people are looking for for where they can serve. People are looking to do more good in the world. Yeah. And we need it. We need it right now more than ever. Yeah, we really do. OK, so when we talk about recruiting board members virtually, I think we can all agree that, yeah, we need to be doing it and yay team. But this is the reality. How do we do it? And so you have some strategies for us today. You have five strategies. So hit us with number one. Well, number one is not really different than what you might have done before. It is to really take a step back and understand why are you looking for board members right now, because most of we're in more than anything else is to find that mutual fit, that mutual passion and that skill set that's going to really help your organization or perspective that's going to help you meet your mission, your mission right now in this moment. So I would just kind of ask yourself, are you looking to fill a specific role? Are you looking to get some dynamic next-gen energy on the board? Are you are you looking for an accountant? And keep in mind that an accountant does not always want to be your board treasurer. So be upfront about that, too. I do think this is a really important time to be asking yourself if you need to increase the diversity of backgrounds and perspectives on your board and become more representative of the community that you're seeking to serve. And it can be really helpful to have a specific kind of small group on the board that is tasked with thinking about this year round and identifying your needs, your blind spots, ways that you might be becoming more productive and effective as a board. Yeah, and I love that you acknowledge the facts, Samantha, that just because someone is a CPA does not mean they want to be a treasurer. Just because I'm a fundraising consultant does not mean that I want to be your development committee chair, you know, that's really important because I think all of us, many of us are also looking at ways to, you know, diversify our own skill sets and talents. And that is a great way to do it. Absolutely. Yeah. And just being really introspective and clear about that up front, I think is so important, especially recruiting virtually because it is easy to kind of disengage as a new board member if there are those missed expectations. Right. Absolutely. We've done a couple episodes on assessments for board, board specifically in the DEI realm and kind of like it's not just about ethnicity, but it's socioeconomics, it's language, it's region. I mean, it goes well beyond just the physical appearance of one another. We have to look at what, as you mentioned, these skill sets are. So we talk about then again, keeping on, keeping on with recruiting board members virtually, lead us to your second strategy, Samantha. Yeah, absolutely. So number two is to lean into the virtual and hybrid world that we're living in and to share up front how and where we're meeting. And so certainly the Xana board, board portal, as you mentioned earlier, Spotlight, which is a great hybrid meeting tool. But I think that can really help set some expectations and be a way to build that more diverse and inclusive board. So folks that you were saying who maybe have some ability needs that couldn't have engaged previously to increase racial diversity and geographic diversity. You can now perhaps bring thoughts leaders from a broader region or even national thought leaders. So I do think it is kind of if in job postings now we're saying currently remote, right? In in board recruiting, we should be saying currently remote or remote flexible moving forward to really again help broaden that group of folks and broaden that network of folks. What a great professional tip because you're right. And we have seen so many remote from now. You know, job postings. I know Katie was staffing boutique does that all the time. And I just love seeing that clarity and to move that into the board meeting space and into the language, I think is so wonderful as well. Because it it describes your clear expectations, right? And that's really, as I heard you say, Samantha, really, really critical in the beginning of the on-boarding or even the recruiting really is where we're talking about the recruiting piece. It's interesting, Samantha. I was working with a nonprofit yesterday afternoon who is because of the pandemic, they have started to really embrace the concept of getting board members from across the nation. And what they decided at their last board meeting was that they're going to do all of their meetings remotely so that they can pull in people and they're they're pulling in people from both coasts. But what they're going to do is in starting starting in 2022, they're going to designate one of their meetings in a different community where they want everyone to travel to. And and it's not going to be, you know, it's going to be more like in the center of the country, so everybody can kind of get there. And they're going to put that cost, if you will, and the board members will be responsible for it, but that will become almost like their board dues and they'll estimate, OK, it's going to probably cost you twelve hundred dollars a year. We will pay for this, this or that, but you'll have to pay for this. And I think it's going to be interesting to see. They're getting some resistance from some of the older board members, but newer board members are very excited about it. So interesting. Yeah, very, very interesting. OK, so now we've got to go on to strategy number three. Recruiting board members virtually. OK, gone through one strategy. Strategy number three is to post a board service section on your website. Many of us have that how to get involved, how to donate and leadership opportunities, I think, should be front and center on your website, including board service. And this is a way to kind of highlight who your current board members are. But also post a board job description on your website. Put a clear call to action in terms of when do you recruit? Is it a rolling application? If so, who should they contact? If there's a specific time of year that you recruit, what's the deadline? And and again, how can they express interests year round and who on the board or on staff is the is the point person? Because really we should be cultivating relationships with those who are engaged with our organization and our mission year round. It's not just a like one and done. Oh, this is the recruitment season. Right. Now, you've done this, Samantha, so not only are you a rock star boardable, right, but you're also, as you shared with us, you are. We're a rock star with the National YNPN board. And so you went through all of these strategies. I know we're not done. We're at number three. But you implemented these strategies with the National YNPN board. And I'm curious, like how all of the steps one, two and three, because I know you've got two more to share with us, like how that really, you know, just proved successful for the recruitment of the National Board. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I did serve on the Board Development Committee one year or so was actually part of the group that was recruiting board members. And that's why I'm such a champion for how have it be a designated group. And that group can really help set up the rest of the board for spreading the word. So I think it worked really well in terms of just it absolutely was the most amazing board that I've ever served on and just the most the board that is the most committed to EDI that I've ever ever been a part of. And so I think it is having those those values clearly identified and being a fabric of what you're doing throughout the year. I don't know if that's answering your question there. But I think we have some things that didn't work. We tried this like Twitter chat thing that that was not as effective, but just having it be an ongoing conversation and something that all board members can find ways to participate in, I think is really, really essential. Oh, that's wonderful. And spoiler alert, Samantha is going to connect us with the National YNPN board. So maybe he, she or they can come in to talk about, you know, how it's been successful. So thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. OK, so one, two and three were amazing. Love, love, love the actual implementation of this information on the website. You don't see that. I mean, that just like I can't wait for number four because number three, I could have entered the show right then and there. That's great information. But number four, what have you got for us? So leverage social media. Absolutely. Leverage social media. I will give a shout out to Jared. I think I saw you do this recently. I talked about that job description. Now take that job description for your board and share it. I've seen a lot of organizations do this recently with LinkedIn, where they're posting their board job description on LinkedIn and saying, hey, we're recruiting now for board service. And again, make it kind of very clear in that description. What's the give get? What are those costs associated with being a board member? Where and how, et cetera, do you meet? But put that out there and let folks know that you are recruiting. I love that kind of open door philosophy. I think there are some other cool things to meet your like meet your followers where they are post on Instagram. Definitely why MPN chapters across the century have done that. They've done some interesting like open sessions in terms of a board member interest meeting, you can do that virtual like a virtual town hall. The Twitter chat I mentioned, we had board members on there. So wasn't that successful? But if you have a great Twitter following, certainly be sharing your board posting on Twitter. That could have been during a very, you know, tumultuous Twitter landscape that maybe people are like, I'm not going on Twitter. I don't know. I'm just guessing it might have been during that time frame when Twitter was, you know, a little bit hard. Yeah. The magic way is try new things. Yeah. Try new things here. Don't go back to like definitely go back to some of the try to true things. But this should be a time to experiment and sharing those opportunities. Sorry, why? When you when you say try new things to me, I think that also gives us an opportunity to attract new, you know, new leaders, new spaces, new communities. Because if we do the same thing the same way, the same days, right, we're getting the same results. That's kind of the definition of insanity. So what I'm hearing you say, Samantha, is truly, you know, doing these new things may warrant new results. Absolutely. I think so. I think so. And it is a. A healthy board. This is one thing we really believe that boardable that a healthy board is critical to a healthy nonprofit. And this is a time to look at your tools and the the ways that you're doing things. It's a really nice opportunity, I think, to kind of reflect and to shake things up a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I was thinking, Samantha, as you were speaking, you know, this is also going to help you potentially to meet your clients where they are. You know, and I think that's one of the things that we see a lot across, you know, the nonprofit lands, board landscape in America is that our boards are not reflecting our client base. And so when we have those types of voices and brain power, it doesn't always serve our clients because they're not in alignment with what, you know, needs to be going on, you know, in terms of service. So amazing. And, Julia, we do have a question. I'm going to read it and then also kind of address what you just said. And Samantha, of course, want you to chime in with your experience. Someone asked, what are your suggestions to persuade boards to recruit non-corporate people? Now, I'm sticking on that word persuade, right? That's clearly it's been an issue. But I would like the organization to recruit board people who are in different socioeconomic groups, but the board focuses on people in the communities that can be sponsors. So that's our question that we've received from an audience member. And thank you so much for submitting that in. Julia, you were just talking about how our board makeup doesn't really mirror our communities. That's why I love in FQHC's federally qualified health care centers. It is a requirement of them that 51 percent of their board members are the makeup of the community in which they serve, right? So that could be something that maybe you look at. And I think that's a great best practice model in the FQHC. Again, federally qualified health care center. Our world loves acronyms, but they have that 51 percent requirement, if you will, that the board makeup has to be of the constituency base or of the clients in which they serve. But I want to open it up to you, Samantha, if you have anything to add to to that response or question that we received. I am pretty passionate about this. So I do think boards do have a fiduciary responsibility, absolutely. Fundraising is a part of that in many cases, but that is not the sole responsibility of a board and good governance requires a diversity of perspectives and a diversity of thought. And so to Julia's point, not we know that boards do not represent the communities that they are they are seeking to serve, and I think that that's a great disservice, actually, that you cannot meet your mission if you do not have a diversity of perspectives on your board. And that's not just there's a funny story that a mentor of mine shared where it's like there is one board that they had all different types of lawyers on the board. And so they thought that was diversity. Oh, my gosh, that visualizes like, I don't know. OK, that's fabulous. That is fabulous. Oh, my God. Go ahead, Samantha, I don't want to cut you off. I would just really say that right now, if you are not thinking about diversity in a wide range of lenses, racial diversity, we do know that that there's a major gap in terms of racial diversity on boards, but also, again, disability, gender, industry. I would really encourage your board to start having that conversation. Right, absolutely. And I was going to say on top of that, yes. And what I'm hearing from this question is there's a greater issue issue at hand that's more than the board, right? Like there's a greater issue of diversity that perhaps needs to be addressed within the organization. Right, we have some diversity assessments on the American Nonprofit Academy that are free. And we've talked about it on the show because, again, it goes well beyond just what we might see in one another. It goes to many, many issues. And there's a wonderful guest we had on who said, you know, the closer to the problem, the closer to the solution. And so when you when you can find voices that actually know and can speak about being impacted by whatever the cause is, you're going to have stronger leadership, hard to believe, but our time is almost up. So I want to get to strategy number cinco. And the good news is that it's very tied into everything that we already talked about. So it's really about sharing broadly with the network and cultivating relationships with new networks. So looking beyond your traditional networks, you can definitely get that email template for your board members to share with folks in their immediate network. But then also be sharing and thinking about what professional associations, affinity groups should you be building relationships with. There's a really amazing article that I definitely recommend. White leaders read that was posted through board source around recruiting for board diversity without respecting people of color written by Jim Taylor, and he really speaks to this very, very well in terms of, you know, are you posting with the Hispanic National Bar Association Association, the National Black Chamber of Commerce, are you building those relationships not just with your friends or friends, but in the broader community? Right. And I think that is such wise, wise wisdom, because too often one of the things I see go wrong and it perpetuates the same makeup of the board is if I'm moving off the board and then I tap my next person on the shoulder, chances are they are going to look like me, dress like me, think like me, drive the same car as me. You know, and so I see that doing the organization and really the community at large, a disservice as well, that could be one opportunity. And I know we see that often in our corporations where maybe they require a C-suite to serve on this board. And so term after term, there is a representative from there, but you don't want all of your board makeup to be taps on the shoulder from their predecessor. Yeah, it's amazing. OK, so given what you're seeing with boardable and the pandemic and then your your amazing work with YNPN National Board, just as we kind of end our time together, are you seeing that this is a concept that boards are embracing or is it just like a totally new concept that they need to look at their boards differently? I mean, what's the tenor? Like, what do you see moving forward? Oh, I think it's it. Everybody's in a little bit of a different place. So I do think the last year to a certain extent made us think differently about how we need, how we work. And so I do see a lot of boards having these conversations. I'm encouraged by the idea of what we were talking about earlier, that it's going to be this hybrid model. And that is definitely something that is the trend and everybody has been navigating, like, what's this next phase? Yeah, yeah, just great information. This has just been fabulous. Could you, before we leave, please repeat the name and the author of the article from Board Source that you mentioned? Yeah, it is recruiting for board diversity without respecting people of color. The author is Jim Taylor. Jim Taylor, and you found that on Board Source. Correct. Awesome. Awesome. What a great conversation. I mean, I knew it was going to be great months ago, and I think we scheduled you. But talking about this is such a critical time. You know, we started the conversation today saying how too many organizations really hit the pause button and just said we can't. You know, our hands are tied. We cannot recruit and really work on our development. But all of these five strategies you've shared, Samantha, are truly enlightening and uplifting for all of us to take action. So thank you. What's been a pleasure. I look forward to following the show. And I thanks for having us. And yeah, definitely for folks who are interested, check out Boardable, a board portal is a part of everything that we talked about today in terms of really just continuing to engage those new board members once you get them. I love it. Here's Samantha's information and boardable dot com. You can learn more and more about what's going on really briefly in the few minutes we have left. Can you share with us the spotlight product that you just released? Yes, yeah, absolutely. So Boardable is a board meeting and board management software and we just released Spotlight, which is our meeting platform. It is inclusive of a video conferencing tool embedded in the platform. And it really allows for that one screen experience so you can all stay on the same page, whether you have people calling in, whether some are in person or you're continuing fully virtual. It's great for that hybrid experience, you can see the agenda side by side with your meeting participants, click live on links and really all stay on the purpose of the meeting rather than worrying about the logistics of where and how and when. You know, Jeff Banner, your CEO, talked to us about that almost a year ago in the Chitty Chat Chat and I was like, yeah, it's never going to happen. It was like so sci-fi. I mean, yeah, in a perfect world. And meanwhile, meanwhile, dog flew to space, right? That's right. And so I said, only Jeff Banner can pull this off. Well, it's really exciting and we're super proud of you because we think this is a game changer and board efficiency and just gosh, I can't wait to talk with organizations that have used it. It's really exciting. Wow, another great episode of the nonprofit show. I'm Julia Patrick been joined today by my interpret co-host, the nonprofit nerd herself, Jarrett Ransom. Again, we want to thank our presenting sponsors that you we would not be here having this robust discussion and board services where it's at, baby. You don't have good boards. Pretty tough to do a lot of other things. So, Samantha, we are super honored that you would take so much time and give it to us and help us delve into some of these things. Again, another great episode. Join us back here tomorrow. We have our Friday recap, ask and answer episode, which is always a lot of fun. A lot of great questions that have come in this week. And so we hope to see you tomorrow on the ask and ask and answer episode. As we end every episode, we like to remind you to stay well so you can do well. Thanks, everybody. Have a great day.