 Stink Tech, Hawaii. Community matters here. Aloha and welcome to Kondo Insider. It's Thursday at three o'clock. We do this show each week to help educate association board members and owners on a variety of association topics. Let me assure you this is not a drill. This is the real show. We're going to have interesting information. You don't need to take cover, but you should take a lot of notes with a lot of interesting information available to us today. That being said, you almost cannot turn on the TV or read the newspaper without hearing about fire safety, primarily because of the major fire recently at the Marco Polo building. And fire safety is important to all of us, whether you live in a home, an apartment, a condominium. And so I've asked one of my good friends, Ron, I'm a media to come today to talk about options available to residents to provide fire safety for their home because as an industry we want you to know, we support all the various issues regarding fire safety. The big push on high rises has been do we need to have sprinkler systems and that's the debate we'll talk about a little bit later in the show. But anyway, I'd like to welcome Ron to the show. Welcome, Ron. I know who you are and a lot of people out there know who you are. Why don't you remind us a little bit about your great history here in Hawaii? Well, thank you very much for inviting me onto the show. I am a product of the Pineapple field, shall I say. I was born and raised in Wahewa, spent my first 22 years in Whitmore Village outside of Wahewa. And then I went into the Army for two years as a signal corps officer. Then went off to law school at Hastings College of the Law, University of California, San Francisco. Thereafter came back to Hawaii, started my career in government. I was at one time the consumer protector of the state. Then the automobile no-fault commissioner. And finally I was the attorney general for four years from 1974 to 1978. Did you enjoy your government service? I did. I did because you were able to do things which made life better for people. And that was very satisfying to me. I think it's interesting, so I'm going to say thank you for our service that I feel government officials and particularly even legislators often get a lot of hate, a lot of negative when they're trying to do the best for the people of Hawaii. And of course there's a variety of interests in our state. So I think there's sacrifices when you work in government and as a legislator. So I thank all of them and you for representing the people of Hawaii, which I know you did very well for that period of time. Thank you. Thank you for the call. Now I also understand you're the attorney for no-fire technologies. Can you tell us who they are? Yes. No-fire technologies is out of the state of New York. Its founder, inventor is Sam Gottfried. Dr. Sam has two doctorate degrees, one in physics and the other in electrical engineering. He's one of the foremost fire science experts in the world. And he has a product called no-fire, like the company name, which is totally environmentally safe. I'm sorry, just shall I say a wonderful product which can be applied in various applications. We're going to get back to that product in a minute, but I'd like to just take a minute to remind everybody that a lot of the dialogue we've had recently is because of the Marco Polo fire. And people forget that the first interstate building on King Street had a major fire a few years ago. We've certainly read in the papal about the Halacious fire in London of the apartment building and the major building in Dubai. And we as the industry support fire safety in looking at all the various options that are available to help protect the people, the occupants of their unit or home or wherever it may be. The issue I'd like to just take a minute to brief everybody on and I'm going to frankly have to go to my phone because to tell you this is minutes old, this information I have and it has to do with the status of the city council with respect to Bill 107, which was a program to create more fire safety standards and condominiums. Let me begin by saying it this way. This bill will be heard within the amendments on January 23rd at 1pm and it's a regular council meeting so there's I'm going to say I haven't counted the 10 or 20 items on the agenda. But let me tell you the proposed amendments on this fire safety bill and how it affects condominiums and it's quite lengthy the amendments so I'm going to invite you to go online to the city council and look at the agenda and you can specifically read the exact language so I'm going to paraphrase a little bit on the most important parts as I read them with only a couple minutes to study it and what the proposed bill modification is. Under Bill 107 the original intent was to require buildings to conduct a fire safety matrix where you go in and they look at the fire doors, they look at the alarm system, they look at what I'm going to call vertical penetrations where the pipes and floors don't meet, that's the fire hazard that opens space, I'm going to call it fire stops and the need for sprinkler systems and what each building would do is hire a professional to complete this fire matrix and if you've got a passing score you did not have to install sprinklers. If you failed to get a passing score you had to have enforced all sprinklers over some specified period of time I want to say it was 12 years but I may not be correct on that. So that's kind of where it stood about a month ago so here's where it stands today the proposed amendment which we voted on on January 23rd. First of all the buildings that are going to be required to address this issue are not all of the 350 buildings without fire sprinkler systems. If you're below I'm going to say 10 floors or less and again I'm going to refer you to the bill because those numbers may not be exactly accurate but the intent of what I'm saying will be correct. Then you have exterior car doors that is the safety exits the outside exterior hallways are on the outside of the building not in the middle then you're not going to have to do a matrix and you're going to be exempt and I've been told that at least about 150 buildings remaining they would have to do a matrix and again if you didn't pass get a passing score then in fact you would have to put sprinklers in and we've all heard the potential costs that some say as low as $4,000 and some say as high as $50,000 to do that and there's been a lot of publicity against this because of the affordability factor. So this proposed amendment which I just read a moment ago basically says that each building that falls in that category must do with a licensed engineer architect the official fire matrix form within three years of the passage of the bill. So that means all of those buildings within three years would have to do the matrix and if they failed would have to then put sprinklers in the building. That being said this bill provides what I'm going to call an opt out program for the owners that within three years of the matrix being completed if the association held an owners meeting of the owners and the majority of all those owners voted to opt out of the fire sprinkler system requirement they would be allowed to opt out of the fire sprinkler system requirement because of a vote of the owners. That being said if the owners opted out they would need to post signs in the building that the building is not sprinkled they would have to notify through real estate disclosures the fact that the building is not sprinkler to all future owners and take these types of actions maybe even filing documents with the Bureau of Conveyances not acknowledging the fact that they've opt out of the fire system. So there would be a program for owners who consciously wanted to opt out of the program to do so within three years of the matrix which presumably gives that building a chance to study get bid evaluate what the true cost would be allowing it up to the owners to make that decision with respect to opting out. If they did not opt out of it they're given 12 years to put the fire sprinkler systems in again for those buildings that failed the matrix because there may be opportunities by upgrading the fire alarm system putting no fire paint in by correcting some of the pucas and the floors with fire stops you could get additional points to not have to put the sprinkler system in. Now I've just dealt with a very complex subject in a matter of minutes after a fast reading about three minutes before this show began I would recommend you go online to the city council agenda you can read the specific provisions of the proposed amendment to the bill which would allow mandate of a matrix to be conformed but allow various methods to either by taking fire safety prevention methods or by opting out of the sprinkler requirements by vote of the owners to make alternate adjustments I'm not gonna spend a lot more time on other than to say there looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel that associations will be given options to address us an affordable way to not necessarily sprinkle the building although we all realize the sprinklers are a great addition and a great fire safety system that being said everyone talks about sprinklers sprinklers sprinklers sprinklers what else can we do we have an alternative which is the fire retardant paint there are only two or three truly fire retardant paints in the world of which no fire is one and in a nutshell if you paint your walls and ceiling can spread you would have approximately 30 45 minutes if let's say if a fire starts right here you'd have 30 45 minutes before the fire becomes a huge fire basically a flash over then then they'll go over so you would have time if you paint your walls and your ceiling with no fire you would have that pair of time to get out of the unit so it basically is a fire retardant that buys you time with respect to being able to escape escape yes that's what of course there's other things that can buy time such as fire alarm systems again the fire stops if you're going to high-rise new elevator systems that all of these things should be considered back to the matrix is what is going to be required for associations to take a fresh look at this within three years when I say associations I want to remind everybody that there's residential apartment buildings city-owned apartment buildings all of them have the same requirements of the fire safety inspection of matrix as do condominium associations but on that note I have a lot of questions about your product yes we're going to take a short break for one minute and we write back to get in detail about no fire thank we have this crazy thing going on today I was walking by and all these DJs are set up all around the city welcome back to condo insider we're talking about fire safety with Ron on a media at the beginning of the show I took a brief moment to talk about the update on the proposed amendments to the city council bill that began to mandate fire sprinkler systems and I only had that information for about three minutes before the show started so I did my best to kind of give you an overview and again the bill itself will tell you accurately what it said and I hope I didn't egregiously misquote anything that I briefly read but what we're talking about is beside the huge cost for fire sprinkler systems you know sometimes estimated 30 to 50,000 a unit there are other alternatives in general that apply not only to condo associations or apartment buildings but to single-family homes to protect your family which we all want to do we're talking about no fire which is a paint that can be applied and I'm going to ask Ron some questions about it because it opens up a lot of questions to me so okay so we want to look at putting a paint protective product on in my home or in my condo yes where can I apply it can apply on the concrete drywall where can I apply it you can apply it on any surface except wall covering wallpaper wallpaper because that would if you paint it over that it can come off you know as you can imagine so you have to take off the wallpaper and paint after that so I can put it on my drywall or if I had a concrete wall in between my unit and I could I could I could put on the concrete ceilings if I would need it to yes so it can be applied anywhere anywhere okay and so how hard is it to apply this is this something to take special equipment complicated or is this basically a paint that you're going to use a roller and brush or sprayers to do it can you can spray and it's just like any other water-based paint this is water-based and it's totally environmentally safe you don't have to wear any mask or anything like that you know when you apply and it'll dry in three hours and it'll cure in 24 hours so let's just say because I'm a decorator kind of a guy and I want to have all my custom colors of paint can I apply a regular latex paint over it or yes afterwards so I can get the so I have the prior protection underneath but I've been able to decorate my home in the colors I want it to be yes you can it except that you we don't want you to put more than you know the regular amount of paint on it we don't want you to double on on it shall we say then they'll that may cause problems if you bought a paint a regular latex paint at the Home Depot and I just put the standard coating on it yes I would be able to absolutely after painting with no fire still have fire retardant protection but at the same time then be able to have the custom colors make my home with my passion pink walls or whatever it may be yes I can have my passion pink wall can I apply wallpaper over it no no we don't want wallpaper because it's you'll show it shall we say take away the protection you know right what we do not want wallpaper so it's basically a paint product where you can put paint over the top of it and and some of these paints you know you get from Home Depot how the primers are already in it that paint okay too well this paint can be can be a primer too but right the primer and the final product right yes okay so we talked about this paint yeah we we've heard for years about the issue of lead paint problems and probably one of the problems of doing fire protection system like sprinklers that you have to deal with asbestos and lead paint remediation does this product have any health hazards or if I had a someday paint a second coat or a third coat on is there something I have some expensive removal process or is there any kind of issues with regard to this product they would make it really expensive or complicated to make it change like a bit I decided to paint my house 10 years later changed the color is there anything complicated about this they would really increase the cost or make a humbug to deal with it no no and you know it once you paint it'll last a long time because it's thicker than the normal paint you know 10 years 15 years you'd be you'd have the protection for that period of time so I was watching TV the day I was watching one of these shows and then where people bring in I don't like to mention other products because I might get in trouble but where the people making a presentation we're trying to convince these group of investors to to buy their product and it was like a vitamin or something like that and they got into well how do you know it really works is there been any testing on this project by reliable agencies that say this really works as fire departments looked at this or I mean or or I know that the doctor who had been it is very proud of it and it's very educated but do we have any independent testing or knowledge about this that that we can say to the people out there that this is really good stuff absolutely all the tests approvals are in this book but let me read some of the entities that underwriter underwriters laboratories intertake laboratories the US Navy for ships and submarines US Coast Guard Southwest Research Institute Master Paint Institute Lloyds Register US Nuclear Regulatory Commission and states especially California and New York these are all given their stampable approval and certification to the product it makes me want to make a joke about when you're talking about the nuclear testing and our recent bomb scare that would this protect us against the the nuclear ballistic medical that never showed up and I know the answers no but it makes me I don't know my bizarre mind think that through so but it's had extensive testing of what you're saying and is is it can be used how about our building code hanging under state laws or hanging to prevent someone from using it under why law are building codes no no absolutely not it passes all our codes that we have and knowing condo owners the way I do when something like this comes up you know what they all say what the first question is it's always the same thing cost how much of the cost you know is this is this an expensive product or or it will cost the homeowner $3,000 for to do the complete painting for a 1000 square foot unit $3,000 now that could the ceiling in the walls and absolutely the whole thing with all all all rules so it adds about $3,000 to the cost but then protects your family and everybody from or gives you time it's not going to prevent the fire you know fires can start by the sofa the stove or whatever what's going to happen is this is going to prevent the fire from spreading rapidly yes and so people can get out or maybe even fight the fire if it's still this infant infant all stages because you know I were talking before the show and if you can might be sure with our audience again that one of the problems is the way fire spread is because of ordinary paint for lack of a better word yes talks about that little yes ordinary paint is a great source of energy to the fire so if let's say this burns and if for some reason it gets onto the wall which is not painted with a product like no fire it can be within a matter of minutes that the fire will spread and cause flash over and you'll just go you know try to get out and burn everything else all around that particular unit or rule but the paints or a great source it feeds the fire let's play that way it seems to me if you have a retardant that slows down the spread of a fire beside the personal safety things you can get out quickly in some ways protecting property too because you're gonna have less damage if you get the fire put out quickly absolutely you know so you really have a property damage side to it that really isn't our primary concern it's certainly a concern but it seems to me life safety is always the most important thing you know and and the idea behind it we you were debating us on the among some condo manager the day that you start looking at a fire in a condo well the condo may or may not have a fire extinguisher in it that their owner owns or put in himself well it's good if you have one certainly it helps particularly for kitchen fires but then and typically in the hallways of all these condos there's extinguishers as well as a fire hose for a wet stand pipe and then there's dry stand pipes for the fire department to hook up to what typically most people say in the fire department says they don't really want you fighting the fire that doesn't mean a low-grade fire you take your extinguisher in a small and containable you shouldn't put it out of the signature if you start to see a fire that's really somewhat hot or quickly growing they don't really want you to find a fire they want you to get the heck out of there because the smoke will kill you you know and so even though we have those safety devices we would caution our users to realize that your family safety is number one and depending on the circumstances you may choose to grab an extinguisher if it's a small enough fire but never put yourself in danger because fire spread quickly and the smoke spreads quickly and it becomes a real issue so so so we have this about 3,000 unit we have a product that's got all these safety inspections add some cost to the unit fire retardant where do you get it how do you get it here why yes there is a distributor he will be become active with this paint where painters warehouse is the name of the distributor here so he you know he doesn't have it right now but he will when as time goes on it's coming it is coming yes I do want to say you know I've had some experience watching videos about no fire and seeing reports of different fire departments and it's got quite of an impressive credentials that being said we as a show don't endorse any product we think it's up to each person to do their own evaluation of what's good for their particular property and looking at the cost and the test themselves and make their own decisions so although we think this product's got a lot of potential we're not fire safety experts and we're not here to specifically endorse a product other than to say this is something that's worth worthy consideration by people who may have fire safety concern we're kind of at the end of the show so what's your final comments you want to make yes I just wanted to make a comment about asbestos we can paint over it even if you have asbestos in the unit we can paint over it without requiring abatement and as compared to if you're going to install a sprinkler you would have to abate well I'll say a lot of money I want to thank you for being on the show today on condo insider and thank you again for all your service to all the people of Hawaii when you worked in government and I know you're a very prominent local lawyer and we hope you'll come back soon and we want to thank all of our viewers for watching condo insider as I said last week our legislature was called in this session yesterday next week we'll have the current list of what we think the hot topics are for condos before the 2018 legislature aloha and thank you for watching condo insider