 Hi, good and welcome to the first in conversation event of the fall 2021 semester My name is Katie Kate from Knoxville, Tennessee, and I'm an HR professional for a local nonprofit in my spare time I have a little bit of spare time. I wrote a small children's Called have you seen a black bear that's based out of the Smoky Mountain National Park? I'm looking forward to serving as the moderator for this evening's event And on behalf of UT libraries and the John C. Hodges Society and the University of Tennessee Press Thank you so much for joining us today Hiking is something that is so important to me and my family and I spend the majority of my free time With my family. I have a two-year-old and a four-year-old and we go Rocky Mountains National Park at least once a month to hike and camp We never have seen a black I have but my children have not I try to tell them that one day I promise you you will see a bear Um, but they get so sad which gave me the idea to write a Find interactive book based in the Smokies for young children Encouraging everyone especially children to spend more time in nature is one of my biggest passions Having the opportunity to introduce tonight's guest and chat with During this time together during our live Q&A. It is incredibly excited and I'm so honored to be here Family hiking in the Smokies Is on the countless opportunities that family have to explore the great Smoky Mountain National Park The most visited national park in the united states Obviously, it's my favorite the book Features short day hikes alongside of longer trails and is organized by regions of the park I could go on and on but we should let the authors themselves We're going to bring in Hal Hubs Charles Maynard and David Morris to join us Good evening guys and welcome our special guests I know the three of you all have a lot to chat about so I won't hold you up Um, but just a quick reminder to our audience Please feel free to submit any questions you might have during the author's conversations We will get to our Q&A towards the end of the the event and we will Away a free copy of hiking in the Smokies to one special randomly selected audience member That submits a question or comment during tonight's event, but for now, I'm going to leave you all to talk Great. Thanks uh The three of us have been working together Uh, working together is not really right. Is it guys we've been playing together for Over 30 years and have been hiking partners um, first and foremost friends but hiking partners and other things but we, uh We began this adventure just hiking with our own children And uh, we all three have different versions of how this all started And I'll let the other two guys weigh in but But the the thing that that would bother us when the The three of us were hiking and we would run into families and we would see them on a trail and we would think Why would you bring kids on this trail? and then we'd be out with our families and think why are people with kids not here And we began to think Gee somebody ought to write a book and a friend of ours Said to the three of us. Well, why don't you guys do it? And so we kind of went from there, but why don't you one of you guys weigh in on that too? Well, I think part of my issue started when my kids were small and we were looking through the old Sierra club Guide, which was basically what was available then Yeah, and in in the 80s and uh You know, you pick out a hike you think might be appropriate to take kids on a two mile hike or Something, you know in the shorter range And you get out there only to find that that it's so rough That those short little legs can't handle the terrain And so that was one of the things that we started talking about when we hiked together and How I think I remember that it was Charles that suggested this one day Hey guys, I've been thinking, uh, you know, we've been struggling with the guide for our kids We need to write a book, right? Yeah, that's right And my son was small. I mean my wife and I had been hiking together for several years and But uh, yeah, as our son grew up, you know, it It was obvious that there weren't a lot of A lot of information out there on what trails were good for kids. So We just kind of ran with this idea Well, and you know the first version of it we picked out kind of our 25 favorite hikes with our kids and right and we We all did the field work. We all walked to these places and made notes and and All that and then Different photographs things like that maps even we kind of drew our own maps to start with Um, so it was really just a labor of love to begin with The first version came out 30 years ago this year 30 years ago this fall 1991 I happen to have a copy of that version Charles. I was it look Yeah, the old this is the original version. Yeah Yeah, there it is there and there was actually stapled Spine on I don't know if you can see the staples or not. Yeah But that was that was the first version And it well and the funny thing was in that one um, we were doing it ourselves and on the advice of A friend Carson Brewer who said you guys might as well just publish this yourself. It's going to sell in the park And we had no idea What what that meant, you know, like how many how many do you order? Remember we talked about that. All right And and the first order we did is we did a thousand books and we thought well thousand That's a lot of books And I think it what took us three or four weeks to sell out of those Yeah And and then we printed a second thousand and they were gone in another few weeks And only then did we actually print a real run and we were doing our own distribution We were running to the stores and Asking if you do you have do you still have some in stock and Oh, yeah, yeah Uh, so they just kind of got out there and it was and it was in the fall So it was leading up to christmas. I mean, there were a lot of people that did it then um, and what was fun for at least for me is um we We suddenly, you know, people were asking us questions about hiking with your kids and um We were doing a couple of programs here and there and that I remember one time and again We were all Involved in things but somebody asked us one time how long should you hike? You know, how long before you turn around Uh, it might have been you david or I can't remember who it was but said you need to turn around Halfway before they're through You know, you know meaning don't wait till they're worn out and then have to come back You know figure it out and quit earlier and then get back to the car and be worn out. Yeah Anyway, there were just fun kinds of things there Yeah, there was there was a lot of brainstorming initially, you know, we we talked amongst ourselves about What we were looking for and hikes with our children and what we needed and so a lot of that was just kind of us putting ideas together and one of the things we did in that first edition was we kind of Catered to the different age groups What trades might work for smaller children as opposed to teenagers say And that seemed to be a A good thing that we did and that's lasted through all the additions I think doing uh You know, we did trail work for several years and you'd run in you'd be working on the trail and running into families that you know small children no water no snacks And be two miles up the trail and uh So I think that gave us some ideas too, you know, we kind of learned some of it kind of learned as we went but Yeah True Well and and really they were all kid tested like we took our kids on every single one of them Yeah, and and one of the things I appreciated was that we we'd listened to what they asked us So as they would ask what well, what's this and what's that we would pay attention to that and tried to answer those questions in the text You know to anticipate the kinds of questions kids would ask And I think that was part of the fun of it too is that, you know, they were really They really was a three family project Where we took our kids on all these things right A lot of input from our wives They were a big part of it Still are I mean Well, well, yeah, and and and just You know, it's grown like there are 52 hikes in the current version There were 25 in the in the first version So as we've walked and done things over the years, we thought yeah, why didn't we include that one and what we ought to put that in and so Really, we we've expanded it quite a bit And and had to keep it current People think of the people think of the park as real static But that is not true. I mean Parking lots have been moved and trailheads shift around and closed Yeah, things are closed and yeah Yeah, and so we've had to kind of adjust over the years just because The park changes Yeah, and now also there's sometimes there's physical damage to the trails that we had and changes made and So we have to adjust there as well. Yeah, yeah Yeah, not only in the description, but maybe the the level of ability for that particular trail All right, so what's what was a favorite moment? Early on, you know, when we were when we were putting the first I mean, we've had many adventures these years Including yesterday, but anyway, we won't talk about that but but um, what was a favorite moment? Well mine I mean my son is 30 but I I remember carrying him on my back when he was tiny and He'd be awake for a while, but then eventually I'd feel that head fall against my back You know, he'd fall asleep, but we have pictures of him on Andrews bald and you know different places when he was barely old enough to sit up so I I'll think about that a lot And going to a mount cammer and and laconne when he was really young so I guess I have so many it's hard to Decide because you know, we did a lot of stuff together Overnight overnight trips and everything but one of the things I still laugh about is My son Ben was about Oh 18 months or so. I'd put him in a backpack carrier And if we'd stopped to take a break or something And there was a limb close enough that he could grab he would grab that And pull me over so several times I had to To grab the same tree to keep from falling down But I guess one of the most fun days we had was when we all went to Andrews bald A beautiful day and they rolled around in the grass And you know, it was a short enough hike and we took pictures and it was just uh, You know good good memories. So yeah Well, you know, and it is interesting that in the first version Um There are probably three or four pictures of of different of different Ones of the families at Andrews bald I just yeah, that's I don't know that we were I don't know that we were that conscious and thinking that through I think we were just trying to include some cool pictures, but yeah That was probably a favorite hike for all of us when the kids for that age because you know two mile round trip and You know, yeah a good a good end point for them. They always enjoyed that. Yeah I remember uh my son was probably four and uh I was off one day we went up and we did big locust nature trail Which was a mile loop and had a picnic afterwards and I enjoyed moments like that. That was that was a lot of fun Looking at the flowers and bugs Well, what was the funniest moment you remember out Charles? Ah, gee That's probably with us True Well, I will I'll tell you a moment that happened after the book was out Is we had gone up to tremont and we were just going along seeing the waterfalls Um on middle prong trail And and there's there's that big huge waterfall But then just beyond it there's a little one tucked away that you have to step off the trail to see it and and uh, there's some Like iron cable steel cable and stuff from the old logging days there So I was showing it to the girls and and we stepped down to see the waterfall and there was a family there picnicking and and beside them Was a copy of the book Well, it just it just thrilled our girls. They were so excited, you know And and then we you know, we stepped back up onto the trail and they said, why didn't you say anything? And it's like well, they they already had the book. I didn't think I needed to say anything But they thought it was really cool that that you know Yeah, here we here we were in a another family's picnic At a place that we had described in the book. So that was fun. Yeah We were talking about andrew's ball and you know, I took my boys out there several times But one of the one of the funniest things that happened on that trip Down, you know, pretty close to the ball you get into fairly thick spruce fir forest And there's some short turns And brian was who was he loved to hike more than any of them He would like to explore and so he fell behind looking at things And I mean, he couldn't have been more than 30 feet behind us, but we turned to corner and he was out of sight And about the time I lost sight of him You could hear a rough grass drumming on the hollow log and you know what that sounds like And I stopped to listen and brian rounded the corner and his eyes were as big as saucers and I brian, what's wrong and he goes There's a gorilla in the woods over there Yeah That was hilarious that day Well, and that's the thing is that you know You know, I think of a lot of things with our girls and and then and you know, and there were times that You know, the hubs and the mainards would be walking or the mainards and the morises or the morises and the hubs I mean, you know, it wasn't just us hiking by ourselves with our families Sometimes we got to do things together and that was a lot of fun Yeah that There's a picture of uh our families charles Hiking to grotto falls in that first first. Yep. Yep. You're right Because well, well that and that was even before will was born. I think that one was taken so yeah There's elizabeth and our girls and you know, you're right You know, it's funny. We're talking about this song and It's it's it's into the next generation now. I know you true how you're not quite there yet, but Charles and I've been enjoying but a month away. Yeah. Yeah I've already got plans I took I took hailey my 10 year old granddaughter on on at the walker sister's Cabin and july for her 10th birthday And charles, you know, I used to take fit wasn't it fifth graders? We took fifth grade at seymour. Yeah Yeah, we used to take them up there Anyway, we're talking going up and it's a little uphill climb and she's It's hot and she's struggling and we stop and take breaks and So I said something to her about we stopped for a little break and I said, well, you know The next time we go on a hike and she looked at me and says what makes you think well go on another hike Like you better enjoy this because this might be the last one But the funny thing is much like my kids They're always the worst moments were going uphill And coming back through a chatty chatty chatty talking about the next time so they were ready to go again That was always a lot of fun To know that they enjoyed it, you know Well, I had I've got these pictures of the walker sisters Just laminated and I can throw in a pack and that way if we're taking a group or something So I had I had those pictures of the walker sisters in my pack and I took our granddaughters up And there are three of them. Well in this one particular picture. There were three of the walker sisters sitting on that porch Right and just sitting, you know, they were in different places around the porch So I showed it to the girls. I said, look, this is where we're standing, you know And I pointed there's the post and there's this So they insisted that they sit the three of them sit in the three places where the walker sisters sat And for me to take a picture of them sitting like the walker sisters were So it was just a cute moment, you know a fun a fun time Um, but also I think a great connection that they had with Sisters that used to live there. Yeah, all right Cool Well, um, I'm trying to think um, what other adventures Well, one thing I will say is it's interesting after this came out Uh, people began to say what what's your next book? And and you know, we all three had day jobs And so it it wasn't like we were looking for the next book and I mean, you know, we didn't know we were going to write the first one much less a second one But one of the passions that we shared in addition to being in the woods with our kids was waterfalls And so the waterfall guide to the park came out of out of that But it came out of this initial work with the family hiking book Well, one of the things we've been able to do as well as Over the years and the different editions You know, we get a lot of input back from people that have the book especially people With children and so that's helped us revise an update, you know to meet the needs of Of what people are looking for in a family hiking guide. So Well, yeah, and you know this latest edition one of the things that we added were some A little more historical things Old photographs and And little stories of things so that when you go to this place. Oh, yeah, this is what happened here and And that kind of thing and I like that. I mean, I like history anyway, but I think it added a depth to the book more than just Go down there and turn left. Yeah, we and we've constantly been updating Safety issues because true things change constantly, you know, like since the first book We now have elk in the park Right, right. So, yeah, that was one thing that we had to address, you know, as far as safety and And safe distance and those sorts of things. So there's Like you said, Charles, it's a dynamic place. And so we those are some of the things we've had to Be mindful of Yeah, I mean, it's It's been fascinating that it's changed so much in that time And but it but you know along with it a so of our kids, they're all adults and they're all having kids of their own now and And we are getting to go, you know, Dave was telling a story about walker sisters I I took our grandson to chestnut top and and we went up to the top of the ridge and and He he really wanted to go farther. So we went on around and he was doing great and he was about six years old then and We sat down and we had a snack and and I just said kind of just said I leave I this is I love to hike I love to hike And he said I mean he was leaning against me his little head against my chest and he said Yeah, but it's so much better when you hike with someone you love And I thought and I thought okay that captures family hiking in the smokies is that's the reason That's the reason to do it that way And that's just a neat moment, you know that you have with your kids Well that that's one of the reasons we call it time well spent right exactly exactly. Yeah, that's what it is Well, I don't I don't know that we we may have questions and that kind of thing Um, we'll let Katie we'll let Katie go from here. Hi guys. Well, I'm back I have to I have to I will get to the official q&a, but I have to say that Um, I learned very quick tootsie pops We'll get you anywhere. I mean and gummy worms just dangling them, you know, and I've even etched I mean I've thrown them to get them to go a little bit further Yeah, you just kind of have the right incident Katie That's right. Yeah to and for it's like natural encouragement is not the easiest thing so that's very snacks, you know Well, we always made a big ice cream stop somewhere on the drive back home That's why I get my husband out is Kate's cove soft store My Ryan Well, um, thanks guys so much. I really did enjoy it. It's um, it's really kind of kind of neat I I only recently discovered the smoke. He's probably the last 10 years. So I'm started hiking in 2010 So just to hear about the fact that it's changed. You know, I've seen the most recent like chimney tops Um dramatic change, you know from I hiked it and I think like I think 2010 and and then now You know, obviously it's radically changed, but it's so interesting to hear you all And obviously that's the the reason why you constantly have to update the book So that's it. It's really cool to learn that. Um, well, we've reached the q&a portion And we're going to open it up for questions Um and to kick off While the the audience starts thinking of their questions. I do have a few questions for you all So I personally loved in the book that you you talk about the different ages Of of the trails because sometimes, you know, that's something where you you're eager to start that process But you know that they're a little Could you share your favorite trails to take the the little ones on maybe five and under? Uh, one of my favorite well, I have I have a couple of favorite um Little river trail at elkmont is very easy very pleasant And it it really has no specific end point unless you want to go to one of the falls, but You can just meander up there with the small ones take a break along the river Uh, get a snack and then whenever you sense they're ready to turn around you can come back And then also up a treemont going up Lenkamp prong trail Up treemont is similar. It's a little steeper Uh, but those two I've all you know, I used that a lot when my kids were smaller How about you Charles? Well, I was thinking it I mean real small kids The the gatlenburg all access trail is right there on the road. It's it's paved. You can do a stroller You can you can you know, it's got the old chimneys. It's got the rock wall. It's got the river I mean, you know, it's got all these other elements and it and it's uh, I think it's a half mile all the way around it Uh, and that's a fun one. It's real easy to get to It's close to the museum and and to the visitor center. So you've got other things nearby um But but I mean that's one of my favorite for real little kids But I think a lot of the the nature trails are good looks. Yeah, you know just There's you know, because you got a little and and if you've got an older kid and a younger kid A thing that we often did was that the You know, you had a brochure that went with the nature trail So somebody could read out loud, you know, and Once our girls got old enough to read they took turns and I mean it was just a fun thing mostly the nature trails are short enough to that I mean like I said when my son was four we could do the one mile loop And uh lots of wildflowers and you know going April and May and And a lot of the things are labeled the trees and right And some of those are always yeah some of the shorter walks to Uh like in Cates Cove walk out to the cabins And the barns, you know, they're right or quarter mile half mile And a little history there easy walks Because of your favorite spots and that Elijah Oliver house, you know at the end of the Cove is wonderful And it's kind of tucked away You know the john Oliver when everybody sees and goes there, but not a lot of people run out to Elijah Oliver It's a great walk for little kids. You get you get to go across a log bridge. I mean, you know It's it's about this far above the water. So I mean it's not It's not any big deal. But if you got little teeny legs, it is a big deal. Yeah And and that's a fun one, you know, you can see the barn you go in the house you go in the The shed, I mean just a lot of neat little places tucked away Walkers Little river trail. There's the trail bridge. It's just Up all hundred yards 300 yards at the the the road Yeah, exactly place to take kids That's a good one. We've been we did um over I think it was fourth of july holiday We went to the school house, you know, oh, yeah, and the graveyard is right there and and It was like, oh, so this is where all the the people died and I'm I'm like, oh, okay Well, and that's a good one too because there's a creek behind it too So you get to go down and throw rocks in the creek or splash around It it did school house in our house. Um, that is what so I don't I don't know how to to curve that but and then someone You know, someone was talking telling spooky stories all over up there and I'm I'm going, okay We got to get my kids out here The four-year-old's going to be telling everyone stories. We do have a few questions that came in um So, um amary says what guides do you use for visiting other national parks? Um that that you all have traveled to Oh, wow I mean the I'm trying to think of guides that I've used. Um Yellowstone has some good family guides Like they're not not exactly like ours, but there are family kinds of Of activities more than hiking but activities that there's a good one in Yellowstone Um, I'm trying to think what else do you all think guys? I'm when we were in the t-tons, um We did a few hikes, but um I don't I I don't think we bought any books, but we got information from you know ranger That well and and there was a t-ton one and there was a t-ton book that a ranger had written Yeah, and and she had done a really good job. I felt like now again. It wasn't family centered It was just a hike guide, but like for day hikes. Yeah, um And then Yellowstone there was a guide for Yellowstone One of our neighbors in moorstown had written Um, I'm not sure if that's still in print orville bach. I think was his name. Yeah Um, it was more closer to the brown guide in You know the the complete guide in the smokies that old brown book That orvils was more like that for Yellowstone um So But but I mean I'm trying to think of others. I mean because there are other parks so close to us Um congery is a fascinating park in south carolina Um easy walks. It's all flat and a lot of board walks Uh good short things for kids It's you know, it's a few hours away from here in columbia south just below columbia south carolina Uh shin and doa's got some great walks So, you know, you don't have to go out west to to go to national parks and see them Um, of course big south forks just up the road. Exactly. Yeah, good hikes there too Well, and and you know, um Chickamauga battlefield, I know it's a battlefield, but it's really a wonderful natural place And we've taken the girls there a bunch over the years But I mean we're from chattanooga originally so we've got family down there So it tends to be a place we visit but as a kid. I grew up walking outside in that park And they're just some neat places like that that are close by That's good. Um don has a question about what edition the book is in now. She she thinks she might have missed it Um, how is it arranged length of height? Um, Could you explain it a little bit? Sure, it's it's the fifth edition And and we've arranged it by areas of the park So that That way if you're wanting to go something in kates cove all the kates cove hikes are are together If you're wanting to go to kataluchi all the kataluchi hikes are together now in the back There's a chart that rearranges the hikes By ages, you know abilities Links things like that so that you can see all of the hikes kind of indifferent Like if you want to see what are the hikes in here that have waterfalls You can look on that list But that's in the back Yeah, one of the things and and along with that question one of the things we brainstormed about early on and we Still revisit it sometimes Is how do you how do you rate a trail as easy moderate? Or difficult because what yeah moderate for me may be difficult for someone else And vice versa and then of course when you're considering children If it's moderate for me, it's Difficult for them usually So we we tried to Take into consideration a lot of different aspects of the trail We talk about trail tread, and that's how rocky it is how easy it is for smaller children Elevation gain is it is it real steep over a short period all those different sorts of things? So some of these things are kind of Uh a gray area as far as different abilities go in children's ages. So if you have let's say a Seven or eight year old that that's really advanced and done a lot of hiking Then they might be able to take on a more difficult trail than say some other children so it it's kind of one of those things that It's it's a general guide and get out there with your child and explore and enjoy and See what works for you so to speak I remember a couple That we actually all three went to church with and they had Their children were grown and gone and they bought the thing and said we decided that we wanted to start hiking And we just decided to do all of the preschool hikes in the book Because they said we thought that would be a good place to start and it just it tickled me It was like, oh, well, that's a neat way of approaching hiking, but it was as a two, you know adults Empy nesters that that decided yeah, we're gonna we're gonna start hiking together That's good Tyler is asking if and i'm guessing you do Do you all ever go camping and if so, what's your favorite camping spot with access to the most kid trails? Yeah, why don't you why don't you answer because you've got you took the boys a lot of times? Yeah, we used to go camping and even backpacking quite often and probably our favorite place to go for children was kate's gulf campground because there was The nature trails around We could take bikes and they would bike around the campground we even went once and on the weekend and saturday morning We biked the whole loop And the oldest one at that time was 14 so But that's probably has more to offer And of course they have ice cream in the store After the ice, you know, they can get their ice cream, but You know, we have gone over to cosby and camped Yeah us too. There's always Most always a spot there and and there is a nice nature trail there Just off the campground. So and and kataluchi is a great place Because with elk You've got those open fields great night views You know the night sky and kataluchi. You're so you're just down in that Dark hole Things more remote left not as crowded Yeah, yeah, right and again a place you can bike. Yeah Yeah, that's good. Um, I grew up going to elkmont. That's where my grandparents They had a camper and I would be up at elkmont and um, and I my fondest memory of elkmont camping Was uh biking with my sisters and I think I was like I don't know if I was yelling or cheering. I had my mouth open and and I went through just like a a section of gnats They all went in my mouth, you know, and then Big sisters just grilled me the rest of the trip just making fun of me for having a mouthful of gnats, but The best, uh, you know thoughts of elkmont, you know as camping, but Um, Peggy has a question. Um, is there a hike that you used to be able to hike that is not Hikeable now Well blanket mountain Oh true. That's true um Um, I'm trying to think what was blanket mountain? Uh blanket mountain, uh back into three sea days. There was a fire tower and a cabin up there. That's uh And actually my father-in-law worked up there But uh, they closed it several years ago. Now it's uh We went up there not long ago, but it's it's a tough hike because it's so overgrown overgrown They they call it blanket mountain, uh because back in the early days when they were surveying they couldn't find and get oriented so from Uh megs mountain they were trying to find a point to Reference, so they put a blanket on poles And hoisted it up above the tree line so they the surveyors could see it So that's where the name blanket mountain came from But there are other I mean I'm trying to think of other well, uh Parsons branch road is closed. So that makes some of like the shorter way up to um To gregory bald is not you can't pull that off as easy now. It's a much longer hike to go up now Um And then they moved they moved um a nature hike in kades cove You know it used to be up Like as you made the loop and you started back there was a nature hike there the parking lot is still there But it's it's not a nature hike anymore and like they opened up one closer to the campground All right, so they're just some some of those that are like but I was trying to think of Well chimneys has changed for sure. I mean that's that's a dramatically different one That's very trail. Of course you used to could hike that true. You could hike that and it's not it's not we maintain anymore Yeah, we we never put that in our book We hiked it and we're ready to put it in there and it got closed remember Yeah, what the park the park service said now don't do that. We're closing it. Yeah Green That was years ago. That was a long time ago that they closed that probably in the oh true 80s Yeah, it was the 80s when they when they started hacking the peregrine found out there That they closed that one right because we went up there a few times Early on yeah Well, um, David has a question Uh, do you have a recommend trail on the north carolina side that might not be as crowded? What do you think? Um Well, I can think of maybe several of the yeah depends on What is there a specific age group? Uh That well, I mean I I think about catalogi is really not that crowded Any time I mean there are moments but not really So there are several good hikes there, you know again for any age level Um, we just yeah I was going to say one of my kids used to really enjoy going over to the one called booger man trail Out of catalogi. Yeah Yeah, and there's a and there's a story behind that katie Yeah What's booger man, but but there's there's a lot of points of interest along that trail But it's fairly tough, you know, they need to be And that's a little more advanced. Yeah more advanced hike Judy likes a good one for small kids true That is and real short. Yeah And that's out of bryce and city at at deep creek Well, that's right, and then you could take the train right isn't there a train? Out of bryce and city. Yeah I keep saying I'm going to take my kids on that train Oh, they'd love it. They'd love it. Yeah There's a there's a really neat trail at Cherokee That that starts at the visitor's center and goes into town and then you just turn around and come back But the signage is all in english and in Cherokee And and they're you know little plaques along the way to tell you what you're seeing and what things are and things about The the Cherokee, but it's and again, it's following the river. It's a nice little short Fun one, I think now it's a little more crowded because it's at you know Conalifty visitor center is it flat creek at balsam balsam mountain? Yeah, true. Yeah picnic area there. You can camp and That's the highest camp ground in the park So it tends to be cool in the summer I mean, it's a nice spot It's good We have a another question. What is your favorite season for hiking? This one Whatever this one is that's my favorite No, I I like I like winter hiking a lot because A lot of times the views open up and everything but seriously springs got wildflowers Summers got other things fall has a whole different thing to look at leaves I don't know what you guys think I'm I'm with you. I'm kind of somebody asked me what my favorite hike is. I said all of them because They're different every time you go So Well, and that's the thing somebody said, what's your favorite hike and I'll be like what day I mean Yeah, that that one hike would be my favorite because of its wildflowers, but Two months later. It's not the same kind of hike. It's a it's a different whatever. Yeah All right. Yeah, right and and some you've got a view during the winter But you don't have a view in the summer. I mean, you know, it just it shifts on you as the year goes around That's uh, I would I would definitely say I think winter is gotta be my favorite just in general from the sweating But my kids, you know They don't so much But I was at I can't remember the trailhead, but it was in the middle of winter I mean, I could not I promise you no one would believe me but I didn't have a photo But it was at Oh, it's the deep pools That uh, uh that people swim in I can't think of what it's called right now midnight hole Yeah, that's Yeah No, I think it was um, it was it was it regardless On the it was somewhat iced over it wasn't fully iced over Um, and there was an otter playing on the ice. I promise you I have a video and a picture. No one will believe me Um, but uh, but I would say with kids. I definitely subject them more to fall and In summer just because of the the uh temperament of them It's a lot easier and then also if you get stuck out there You've got plenty of daylight to to save you from it. That's at least what I found But um past that I think we um, we are wrapped up with our questions Um, so uh, howl charles david. Thank you all so much for being here this evening. Um, I Absolutely love the book. Thank you so much for taking the time I'm gonna make sure that it's a it's a baby gift for any uh That's a great idea Yeah, and uh, and I just really enjoyed family hiking in the smoky So I'm so so thankful to be here. I know the audience has enjoyed it too. Thank you again guys Well, and katie thanks for your book. That just helps get more people out there. Thank you. You know, and that's that's a great thing Yeah, thank you guys. Thank you But bye guys and thanks to everyone in our audience tonight for submitting your questions and comments this evening as promised selected someone at random in the audience a complimentary copy of Family Hiking in the Smokies the winner is david ren Congratulations Please reach out to ut libraries with a message on the platform of your choice Or email sociallib at utk.edu to get your On behalf of ut libraries ut press and john c. Hodges society. Thanks so much for joining us We're wrapping up the time together. I would like to encourage you all to visit ut press dot org Check out the fifth edition of Family Hiking in the Smokies And amazon.com if you wish to buy a copy of have you seen a black bear be sure to stay plugged in to at utk libraries across all social media or at lib.utk Uh for information about future events. Thanks again for joining us and have a great night