 Good evening and welcome to ongoing election coverage by Town Meeting TV. This is one of a series of forums that we are bringing you in advance of the general election on November 8th. Town Meeting TV hosts forums with all candidates and items on the ballot that you will see, all items that you'll see on your ballot. Our election forums introduce you to community decision makers and also connect you to issues that shape your local community. My name is Emily Brewer. I'll be the moderator for tonight's Vermont Attorney General Forum. And I am joined by candidates Charity Clark and Michael Taglevia. Thank you both very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate you coming in. Glad to be here. Thank you. And for those of you in the audience that are watching live, we do welcome your questions at 802-862-3966. And we'll put you live on air and we will prioritize your questions so the candidates can answer them. And you can watch Town Meeting TV on Comcast Channel 1087, Burlington Telecoms Channels 17 and 217, as well as online at youtube.com-town-meeting-tv. With that being said, let's jump right into it. And we'll start with Michael for an opening statement. Can you please tell us why you're running and what experience you bring to the position? What will be different for the people of the state because you have been elected to this position? I am running for Attorney General because I can be silent no more. We are seeing a state there. We have rising crime mostly due to issues with drugs and a problem with a revolving door of the bail system. And we're seeing that people no longer feel safe in even rural towns in Vermont and especially in big cities like Burlington. I bring my life experience and my experience running a business and I want to take that experience to the Attorney General's office and make it as efficient as we can bring the criminal justice division up to speed so that we can meet the challenges that are coming with the criminal issues regarding drugs. Drugs need to be addressed as soon as I hit the ground running on day one. And that would be the main thing. It will not be the only thing, it will be crime, excuse me. Victim advocacy as well because we're seeing with the rising crime that people are feeling forgotten and I want to let Vermonters know that they will not be forgotten with Mike Taglovia as the Attorney General. Thank you very much, Mike. Now, Charity, same question for you. Please tell us why you're running and what experience you bring to the decision. Sure. Well, my story begins in Southern Vermont where I grew up working in my family's grocery store. I worked my first day when I was 10 and my last day when I was in law school and I saw all kinds of people come through my line at the checkout. I saw people thriving, people on their way to work and I saw people struggling. I took the store with me. When I grew up I became a lawyer but especially these last eight years working at the Attorney General's office I spent the last four years as the Chief of Staff at the Attorney General's office and I was a member of the leadership team making decisions on all the major issues that came to the Attorney General's office. I always tried to lead by serving that every day for Monter. I believe that this background and experience is what the Attorney General's office needs and it's next Attorney General. We need someone who understands the scope and breadth of the office across seven divisions who has the legal skills and leadership abilities to meet this moment in history and who knows how to leverage the office for the best results for Vermont. I am an attorney, I'm a Vermonter, I'm a mom and I will be ready to lead the office on day one. Thank you very much. And we'll stick with you Charity as we move on to our first question which is the Vermont Attorney General is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in the state of Vermont. What degree do you believe this office is also responsible for challenging and encouraging law reforms such as decriminalizing drugs, bail reform, etc.? Well one of the important roles of the Attorney General is to be an advocate and advise the legislature. It is something that I spent time doing as Chief of Staff and it is something that I look forward to doing in January as Attorney General. When it comes to this particular topic there was actually a division created called the Community Justice Division in 2017 under a past Attorney General and part of what that division does is advocate for these reforms and as Attorney General I would absolutely keep that division I would be an active part of the work that they do as I have been these past especially four years when I was serving as Chief of Staff. One of the important elements of that division isn't just advocacy but also managing what's called the pretrial services and court diversion program which really was on the vanguard of criminal justice reform when it was started I think 30 years ago and what we see and what the work that they do because they provide you know wraparound services and supports for offenders is just lower recidivism rates and great success so I would be a support to that division as well. Thank you very much. And now Mike, to what degree do you believe this office is responsible for challenging and encouraging law reforms? I think it is very important in challenging and encouraging certain reforms and decriminalization. I do not believe that marijuana should have been decriminalized I think it only makes our effort in drug enforcement harder. I do believe that the Attorney General should counsel the legislators with respect to legislation that they're considering and also with respect to legislation that's already in effect with regard to removing some of it if it's either redundant or it's been shown that it's not as effective as it could have been or as it was intended. We find across the country that we see the law of unintended consequences in a lot of cases especially with the decriminalization of marijuana and what I don't want to see is in the interest of tax dollars because of the decriminalization that we find teen use of marijuana and mental health issues with teens because they're using marijuana just as one example but I would like to use the bully pulpit of the Attorney General's office not only with respect to the legislature but also with Vermonters in general to keep them informed on a regular basis of progress we're making and things that I believe would be helpful to change to help make Vermonters safer. Thank you very much Mike. And with that we'll move on to our next question. We'll stick with you and you can start. The question is how would you envision working with the state's attorneys from around Vermont? Do you anticipate any challenges or opportunities? I anticipate many opportunities. I will on day one make an effort to just drop Mike. I will make an effort to contact every state's attorney and reach out to them in an effort to coordinate with all aspects of Vermont law whether it be criminal or civil whether it be victim advocacy or helping seniors with identity theft issues but I plan on acting as the chief law enforcement officer and keeping in constant contact with the county officials, the state's attorneys so that they know they have a partner in the state and we can meet the challenges head on and through keeping those avenues of communication open we can hopefully deal with the criminal aspects that are concerning Vermonters in a much faster and more efficient way. Thank you very much and Charity, same question to you. Well this is an important point. It requires a certain collaborative spirit because our 14 county state's attorneys are independently elected. They're not overseen by the attorney general and relationship building, collaboration and just a colleague's ship is a really wonderful attitude to bring to the role of attorney general when dealing with the county prosecutors. One of the opportunities I had as chief of staff was to oversee the expungement clinics that we did every other month with various state's attorneys we would go from county to county and I would build on those relationships I've already formed in that process with the state's attorneys to continue that collaboration and communication and relationship building. I also would continue the expungement clinics that I mentioned I think they're really important but yeah you have to have that collaborative spirit when interfacing with the attorney general's office and the state's attorneys. Great, thank you very much Charity and before we move on to our next question which is around statewide politics I'd just like to remind anybody who's watching at home if you'd like to call in you can call in with a question at 802-862-3966 and Mike and Charity will answer that for you. That being said we'll start with Charity for this one and the question is in what ways have you seen the attorney general's office make statewide impact that you want to follow up on or change? Well you know this is a statewide office so you know it has influence on many many issues but I just want to focus on a couple here tonight first is reproductive rights when the DOB's decision came down which reversed Roe v. Wade I within three days created a safe harbor plan to make Vermont a safe harbor for those affected by the DOB's decision that includes people who are seeking abortions and also those providers in Vermont who provide abortion care and would continue working on that in January with the legislature and making sure that we're using the laws like the Consumer Protection Act that are already in place to protect folks who are impacted by DOB's. The other issue I want to highlight is domestic violence there are 40,000 victims of domestic and sexual violence in Vermont every year and half of homicides relate to domestic violence we have in housing the attorney general's office the domestic violence fatality review commission which is a bunch of stakeholders who review the fatalities related to domestic violence and then provide recommendations and as attorney general I would amplify their voice to make sure that the legislature, the public and the governor sees those recommendations and knows what the recommendations are so they can be implemented so just highlighting a couple of issues there's many many that the attorney general has influence over Thank you Mike, same question in what ways have you seen the attorney general's office make statewide impact that you would like to follow up on or change? There are a few ways but I'd like to respond to something that Charity said about the road decision I think it's important to point out that the road decision actually just reaffirmed or affirmed states' rights federalism the day after the road decision came out there was no change in Vermont and as far as abortion abortion was still available because Vermont has laws allowing for abortion so I just wanted to make that clear that states' rights and federalism and it was a good decision all states can make their own laws regarding that as the Constitution of the United States says it should and that's the way I think we're best served but as far as statewide politics I think one of the things the attorney general did was he stepped in I believe in a case that was involved in the Chittenden County states attorney where he decided he was going to bring charges where the Chittenden County states attorney did not so that is one of the things I would want to use as a tool also to ensure that Vermonters understand that justice will be done for the victims as well as those who are willing to commit crime in Vermont. Vermonters need to feel safe in their homes regardless of whether in Burlington or in a small town like where I live in Corinth I've seen it I've heard the stories day in and day out whether it be catalytic converter theft we had a friend of mine who was also a candidate his home was broken into took them a while to realize how his home was broken into but I suspect it was someone who was trying to steal for to be able to afford a drug habit so we need to address those issues and we need to address the drug addiction issue and I have a plan that will take care of that reopening some facilities opening some new ones bringing in outside contractors as advisors and also using them as help for facilities to get people who are in the system training therapy and get them back into society as productive members of Vermont's economy. Thank you Mike and before we move on to our next question I just want to give you a chance for a 30 second rebuttal if you'd like or we can move on. You know I think one of the differences between my opponent and myself is a difference of opinion about abortion and about the dobs decision you know that's a choice that the voters get to make. I disagree with the dobs decision I think it is problematic and it's not just it does have an impact on Vermont's certainly those medical providers who are providing services outside of the state it impacts them directly and we need to be responding to that and of course you know it's a problem because we have we don't have access to abortion that means the states that do provide abortions are seeing an uptick in demand which means that the people living in that state might not have access to abortion as quickly as they need it so we don't agree on that point. Thank you Charity and now Michael we'll move on to our next question which is national politics what recent high profile cases with implications beyond Vermont would you hold up as examples of previous work with the Vermont Attorney General that you would either emulate or avoid? I think joining some some lawsuits to enable states to pool their resources and their finances are beneficial to the state of Vermont since it's such a small state but I would not try to use the Attorney General's office to be a social justice warrior in a time when we are facing record high fuel prices and the threat that we are going to have rolling blackouts and brownouts in the northeast including Vermont with respect to electric rates so there's one lawsuit I believe is Vermont versus Exxon Mobile to be one I do not see how I would have to see all the particulars but just knowing that the United States has some of the cleanest oil reserves in the world right below our soil here sometimes as deep as 40,000 feet where we are importing some of the dirtiest oil in the world to refine here it kind of doesn't make sense so I would look very carefully at some of those lawsuits some I'm sure could be beneficial but I would want to look very careful at them thank you Mike and Charity the same question to you sure during the presidency of Donald Trump we saw a lot of harmful policies and negative impacts on those policies here in Vermont and the Attorney General's office got involved as we often do with multi-state lawsuits we join lawsuits that are like-minded states have filed or amicus briefs the so-called friend of the court briefs and sometimes comment letters to the federal government I'll think of a couple of examples we have numerous dozens of environmental cases we have joined on to on the national level and we also got involved with trying to prevent the Trump administration from taking funding away from a government's preventative health care program those are all items I was involved with and certainly would continue as Attorney General it's really important that if in 2024 we see another president like Donald Trump that had those negative impacts we have an Attorney General who can give Vermont a voice on the national stage thank you Charity with regard to environmental issues if there's an issue where there is a a pollution issue with a major corporation I would be more than willing to entertain and pursue a major corporation where there was pollution issues but I am not a fan of using lawsuits to scare especially scare our young people with regard to certain green issues when we know that we are one of the cleanest economies and one of the cleanest states in the United States so we need to use do measured actions in that case so that we don't wind up actually bankrupting the state for environmental reasons if all of the good intentions wind up putting average Vermonters in a financial hole I don't see how that's a positive for Vermont thank you would you like to respond quickly okay great with that being said just one more reminder if you'd like to call in before we get to the end of our forum here please call 802-862-3966 and we'll answer your questions so moving on the next question we have here is do you have a question for one of your opponents and we can start with charity on this okay I do have a question my question is the Attorney General is responsible for leading an office of 150 people including 90 attorneys without legal experience or even a law degree in what ways are you the best person to serve as the Attorney General I believe I could assemble a team just as the conductor in an orchestra doesn't need to know how to play every instrument if he can get everyone to play their instrument correctly and on the right timing then we can all in the Attorney General's office make beautiful music together for the benefit of all Vermonters if I can assemble a good team which I will be able to I'm sure there are a number of very good members of the Attorney General's office right now who would be part of that team I do want to bolster some divisions but my business experience and my ability to assemble a team and network with people will definitely be an advantage and I also see my me not being Attorney and being able to break the echo chamber and bring a different perspective I think will help Vermonters understand that there is a little bit different opinion and it can be bounced off of me so that the average Vermonter knows that the Attorney General's office is in their corner whether it be victim advocacy crime senior issues with identity theft that they will be able to contact the Attorney General's office and hear from the Attorney General's office more in layman's terms so that they can just be comfortable Thank you Charity and thank you Mike Mike do you have a question for Charity Yes with regard to EB-5 there are questions I know that you've received campaign donations from Peter Schumlin as well as from T.J. Donovan you've mentioned that in previous debates and also in our previous forum that you talked about when the cases were over regarding EB-5 then it would be full disclosure and transparency there are a number of Vermonters that keeps coming up with this question for me they feel as if the case is dragging on and they don't feel as if in particular white collar crime with the case of this is actually going to reap any rewards or that Vermonters are not going to get the whole truth in a timely fashion they're worried that the statute of limitations will run before that any people who may have committed crimes will be able to be charged are you willing at this point because of your involvement with some of the supposed players possible players are you willing to recuse yourself should you become Attorney General No so the Attorney General's office is handling the civil case there's seven divisions at the Attorney General's office there is a criminal division and that is not handling this case the civil division handles all the cases when the state is sued or a state actor is sued so that is the role that we're playing in this case you know people have are completely entitled to sue other people and entities and one of the jobs of the Attorney General is to serve as the lawyer to the state and that is one of the roles that we play is you know serving as the civil attorney in a civil case and so that's what we do that's what we're obligated to do and as Attorney General of course that's what I would do before I got to the Attorney General's office eight years ago I was a civil attorney doing litigation so that is the kind of expertise that I brought to the office when I first arrived great thank you I want to get a chance to get to a couple more of these questions before we wrap up in a few minutes so thank you both for that and I believe for this question we will start with Mike and it has to do with racial justice so the courts and criminal justice system are a central focus in addressing racial justice and equity what do you see as examples of systemic racism and how would you use this office to address historic and current wrongs based on racism well lady justice in this country and in this state is blind everyone is equal in the eyes of the law if there are reports of systemic racism or racism against whether they be public officials or law enforcement they need to be addressed but I would want to see specific examples of racism and the thing that I'm concerned about is the word equity I believe in equality of not equality of outcome but equality under the law if we have equality of outcomes it winds up diluting the people who are more productive in certain ways than other neither of us none of us here at this table are equal for a number of reasons I may be better at certain things than you or charity and vice versa so we need to treat people equally under the law but equity I believe is a dangerous slippery slope because we really don't want equality of outcomes if there are two people with different talents and with regard to justice we don't want justice to be served based on equity we want justice to be served on a crime that may or may not have been committed thank you Mike and same question to you charity we are at a reckoning point in this country with our criminal system that includes the police but you know you asked for an example of systemic racism and unfortunately our entire system is based on a racist system that began right after the civil war we need to take a pause and acknowledge that and then we need to do everything that we can to correct that and something that I have worked on at the attorney general's office and will continue to work on is reforms that you know acknowledge and try to correct that system the justice reinvestment working group is a working group that has been in process for actually several years using evidence to make recommendations on how we can do better here in Vermont I was a part of that process for a short time it's really really effective and I look forward to continuing to do that work in January I should also note that just because I wanted to mention this statistic that the United States has 4% of the world's population and 20% of the world's prison population so there is clearly you know a problem that we should acknowledge and then do what we can to make it better thank you charity and I want to give both of you enough time to have sufficient closing statements and then we'll close up the forum so thank you very much for this conversation today and we'll start with closing statements from charity great so you know we are at an historic moment global warming gun safety reproductive rights and we need an attorney general who can meet this moment I want to be the lawyer to the people I want to fight for families I want to fight for small businesses I want to fight for children with my background and experience I believe I am the best candidate for attorney general and I will be ready to lead on day one thank you very much charity and Michael your closing statements like charity I will be ready to lead on day one as well the phone calls and the meetings will begin immediately I believe that if you as a Vermont voter are satisfied with the way things have gone over the last couple of years then maybe I'm not your candidate but I believe that there are enough people in Vermont who are concerned about the direction of the the level of safety public safety and the issues with drug problems and that if you want change I represent the change that needs to happen we don't need to reimagine law enforcement we need to restore law enforcement so everyone Vermont is young and old cities small towns doesn't matter everyone needs to feel safe as they did not so far not so recent past we can do this we can turn it around now is the time to do it and I'm the person to lead the attorney general's office to make that happen thank you very much Mike and thank you very much charity thank you both of you for joining us here tonight and thanks for everybody for tuning in to town meeting TV's ongoing coverage of general elections you can find this and more forums at channel 17 dot TV and don't forget to vote on or before November 8th all mail ballots were mailed to all registered Vermont voters this year so haven't yet received a ballot in the mail please check in with your town clerk so that you can vote in advance or on November 8th and thank you again for watching and sharing town meeting TV if you're not already please subscribe to our YouTube channel and have a great night