 Okay. When I say the word job to you, there's always an emotion. It could be happiness, sadness, fear. How many of you feel happy when I say the word job? Well, I should maybe make it a little clearer. Looking for a job. How many, when I say the word, the phrase, looking for a job, how many of you feel basically happy, upbeat, great? How many of you feel sad? About 10. How many of you feel scared? Most of you. That's what I expected. And my job is to try to reduce some of the fear. And the way we reduce fear is not with psychobabble, but with practical, simple techniques that will work for you. Both as a group. And I'm going to spend a lot of time during these three hours doing individual one-on-one, what I call workovers. We're inviting volunteers to come up here and tell me your situation. And I will ask you questions and whatever. And, you know, two, three, five minutes. Come up with a next step. And hopefully that will not only help the individual, but help, there'll be hopefully lessons embedded for everybody. I also, handouts are often used as lining for bird cages. But for what it's worth, I guess every speaker thinks their handout is different. I like that too. I spent a lot of time thinking about this, including this morning when I woke up, I found myself feeling like there was something missing, something I hadn't talked about. And I wanted to, so I was, I sent it to Donya and asked if she had any chance to, if by any chance she could print it out in advance. And so she did. What, this first one is where it says vetting employers. Employers. One of the ways I think you can feel calmer about this thing is that you are, it's not like you are there for the interrogation. Yes, they are checking you out and interrogating you. Absolutely. They want to see if you're smart, if you're easy to get along with, if you're motivated, if you have the skills. But I swear, it is equally important for you to be vetting them, to be checking them out. The right metaphor is a first date. That's right because so many people end up unhappy in the job because it's not a good fit or they don't like the boss or they don't like the organization or it's a workplace culture or something. So it is really important for you to check them out. Now I know when you're desperate, you'll take anything. I got it. Many people are in that situation. But not only will it help you to see if this is a job you want, it actually makes you more desirable. If you are checking them out, for example, in the interview, asking them questions, you don't seem desperate. You see questions seem enthusiastic, you seem interested. And so I encourage you to think of the entire job search process as a matchmaking thing. Where the two of you are, we are trying to hook up with somebody, well, with an organization and a boss that feels right. So what I want to do, and this is kind of an experiment, I never do the same presentation twice, I want you to take a minute or two and read just this vetting employee's little tiny article and then ask me any questions. I want everything crystal clear. So rather than going over to what's in this article and boring you, that would go slow, take your time. If you've got a question, I want to answer it. Does anybody have a question? It could be a rational question, it could be an emotional question. Anything related to this. Maybe you don't feel you could do it. You have the guts to do it. Or maybe it's not clear. Or maybe you want something fleshed out. What's the question you have? Yes. That's absolutely correct that there are, everybody's on their best behavior. It has been said that a job interview is two people lying to each other. But all one can ever do in life, whether it be in finding a romantic partner, improving your health, finding your jobs, improving your odds. And so by, instead of, most job seekers in the interview are so worried about themselves and how they're coming off. Is my hair good? Am I sounding stupid? Am I going too fast? Am I this? Am I leaning forward? Am I that? That they're not paying attention to the, they're not evaluating the boss. They're not evaluating. When you walk in, you can feel, I know this sounds touchy-feely, but you can feel a vibe in an office. The way the receptionist greets you, the way the other workers, if it's in the workplace, you're walking and seeing the way they're, you know, do they look unhappy? Look, they say the eyes are the windows to the soul. If you look between somebody's eyes, especially if they're over age 40, you wear your person because your skin elasticity is not as good. You actually read what's going on in a person by looking at it. So try to get out of your own egotism in yourself and be a detective when you're going in there. Yes, I want you to be good. I don't want you to be phony. I want you to be your best self. But I also want you to check them out just as you would on a first date. That's empowering, also. Instead of feeling like you're this, you know, just this piece of meat that they're checking out until they want to buy you or not. Yeah, absolutely. Great question. If anybody didn't hear it, do you want to make sure we be giving the microphone to them? I think so, it's otherwise for the video you can't hear. Awesome. Great idea. So I'll just repeat for now. I'll repeat this question then in the future if you wouldn't mind going to the question. The question is, how could you do that in a phone interview? So, you know, of course, you don't want to take control of the phone interview. That's too aggressive, of course. But look for opportunities to ask a follow-up. It appears to be a follow-up question in context. So if she, you know, typically the phone interviewer is going to ask you about, you know, they typically go through your resume on the phone. And so they say, well, tell me about your experience that, you know, why did you leave this company or whatever? So you give the answer and you say, well, the work was very circumscribed and the project was over and so I left. And that was pretty much the orientation of that office. Tell me about this job. Is this very much that way? Is this likely to be truly very project-oriented? And then it's, you know, is this job tempt to perm or is, or most of the jobs tempt to perm? How permanent are they? So asking a follow-up question in context is the way to do it. Not out of left field. Just listen your butt off when you are in a phone interview and of course in person as well. Listen your butt off to what they're saying and seeing if there's a way to make it more of a conversation. Now in unionized environments, you're not allowed to because the union insists they don't want anything to be racist, sexist, whatever, so that they ask exactly the same questions of every employee and you don't have a chance to ask questions until the end. But in many other workplaces, you have more flexibility. And in those non-ringer situations, you do want to look for opportunities to ask a question or make a comment so that it becomes more of a conversation. That's how chemistry gets built. If you just sit there like a target when they're going to bombard you with questions and you answer and you sit and wait, no chemistry gets created and you look desperate, you look weak. I'm not asking you to be phony, I'm not asking you to be aggressive, but I'm asking you to try where possible to be really fully engaging and it could consume you. Yes. Let's wait for the microphone. Morning. My name is Susan and to build rapport on a phone interview, oftentimes you get the HR recruiter initially. Correct. And it's almost on candy whether the third question, the second or the first, it always cuts straight to what's your compensation requirements? How do you build rapport, segue? How do you answer that without getting cornered? Because oftentimes if you really tell them your compensation requirements, you're put in the out bucket or the delete button. Let's talk about that. First of all, really well trained interviewers are trained early on because they know that gives them huge power of you. If you give too low a number, they're going to low boil you. If you give too a higher number, they're probably going to get rid of you. So there are sometimes, if they ask it early enough, you can't preempt it. But let's say that's the worst case. So they ask. Say the typical good answer is, well, it depends on the nature of the position. Tell me a little more about the job. What is the salary range that's been budgeted for that question because you're in trouble? But there's a better solution. If she doesn't ask it right away, as soon as you've given an answer to one of her questions that seems good, say, oh, by the way, what is the salary range that's been budgeted for the position? I want to make sure in the ballpark that the user is the same tactic but throws it back on her. But then sometimes they'll throw it back. What are your salary requirements? Well, then say, if they really go all the way and they go back to you, then you say, well, if you don't want to wait until I hear more about the position, then I can only give you a fairly wide range. It's somewhere between 70 and 95 depending upon the nature of the position. So you give her a wide range. But usually they don't go quite that far. But there is a way to give you the power in that situation. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions about this little handout? Questions are good. Yes. Let's wait for the microphone. One of your suggestions is to get to the snack room or workplace where other employees hang out. How do you suggest doing that when you're in the building but you've been taken to a small conference room for the interview? This is what I wrote was after you offered the job and before you've accepted it, I'll write you a note or call you to tell you that we're offering you the job. Say, I'm pleased. I'm not delighted. You don't want to give away your power. I'm pleased. Can we set up a time for me to come in to talk, discuss terms, and kind of take a look at the workplace? Then you come in and then maybe either before you've negotiated terms or whatever. Usually, you know, we don't have the options. We're not electrons. We don't behave completely predictably. But very often, there are opportunities when you offer the job to visit the break room for a few minutes. Yes. Yeah, I've only arrived. I hope it's on the subject, but it's about work. How do you develop a voice where you can, you know, go on the radio and talk. I have a talk show and, you know, the reality is that there's no money in radio whatsoever. I am not a huge fan. I've been doing my show for 26 years. I know a fair amount about career stuff. I know how to do radio. And I bring in a ton of money for NPR and I get paid zero. My salary is zero. So, and even when I was on KGO a disgustingly over-commercialized station, I got paid next to nothing. Radio is a hobby. Or unfortunately, since the 60s, there has been the message do what you love and the money will follow. And that generally means creative activities, whether it be fashion or writing or singing or comedy or radio or TV or whatever it is. And so, there are 10 zillion people wanting to do some creative activity like that. And so, supply and demand means they don't have to pay. If you want to be an accountant, they'll pay because there aren't 10 zillion people whose passion is to be an accountant. So, you must do what you love but you can't expect to get paid for it. I love playing the piano and actually I'm going to take a break to answer your question a minute. When we take a break, I'm going to play the piano for you. I love to play the piano. I did it as a teenager to make a living at it. A good living at it, actually. But not that good and it would have been a mistake to try to do that my whole life. So, do what you... I've written four screenplays. I've written two plays. I've written a one-woman show. I play the piano for the show. I act in the show. I don't get any money for it. So, I get to do the coolest things in the world. Write screenplays, do radio shows. Write stuff. And the key is not expecting to get paid. Realize it. What does Bill Gates do? He realizes you've got to make money where money is to be made. I mean, if you're Barbara Streisand, yes, you're the best in the world and you're going to get paid. But unless you are clearly superior, you're facing lottery odds. You know how many comedians go to the punchline and make $50 and struggle living with four roommates at age 50? That you don't see. You see who goes on Oprah. Well, just follow your dream. But as the promo for this talk is, you know, I don't want to see you in section 8 housing and having to cut your medication in half because you can't afford the whole pill. So, nobody cares more about creativity than me. Nobody. I've written 3,000 articles. But even though I've written 450 articles for psychology today, I get paid a little. The average, I would say I make about a dollar an article. That's the truth. One dollar. I've written 20 essays for time's idea section in the last year. What was my total pay? Time magazine. Onlinetime.com. Bureau. And it's not that I'm shy. It's not that I'm afraid to negotiate. It's not that I don't know how to negotiate. Everybody wants to do creative stuff. Everybody. Everybody wants to be a filmmaker. Everybody wants to, you know, work in Hollywood, Broadway. So, yeah, the stars get money. But it's really a lottery odds. If my son or daughter were 18 or 20, and were saying, Daddy, I just, I have to be an actor. That's who I am. I'd rather have four roommates and eat ramen and cat food, but I want to be an actor. I'd say, fun. Circle the date on your calendar. Give it your all, because it's going to be 10 million others who want to do it. Kill yourself for three years, five years while you don't have a mortgage, you don't have kids, you don't have anything. Follow your dreams. You get it out of your system, or maybe you'll be one of the ones who wins. Great. If you win, I'll be there cheering you on an opening night. But, you know, it's like the balance between keeping your head in the clouds but your feet on the ground. I'll do the second point in the article. Read between the lines of advertised jobs. And the question is, what clues should we be looking for, good and bad, in a posting, and, or, and, how do we figure out what clues are meaningful to us, good and bad? Well, what's meaningful to you is, of course, to be individual, but clearly, sometimes if you've got a job description that has got 30 items on it, covering everything under the sun, you know what that says? It says the organization sucks. It means every decision-making is made by committee and nobody can agree on it. Everything is by consensus. So they say, ah, we'll just throw everything in the kitchen sink. That's a lousy organization. It's not crisp and it's not respectful. If they ask also for you to do too much, I worry a lot about job applications where they make you come in. We want you to do a marketing job. We require applicants to submit a proposal for how we would market our business. All that does, it really shows how unfair they are to that, to the employee. Because they're asking you to do all of this work for free, merely so they can get free consultant. They may not even hire anybody. So they need to show a measure of respect for the candidates. So, also, are they, are they being unrealistic? They may only have five or six items in the job description, but if they're asking for Jesus incarnate, you know, no good. So you read between the lines and there are certain, there are buzz words as I wrote in that little article. You know, self-starter, fast pace, high energy, exciting environment, that says 12 hours a day, no breaks. So, again, we're dealing with human beings, not electrons, so there's no 100% guarantee. But you get a feeling about the place. Now, of course, sometimes they hire some HR person who's a nice, soft, touchy-feely person who writes a lovely little ad that makes you feel welcoming and wonderful. So that's why I've got five steps in that article for vetting them. Every step of the way, you're vetting them. And that, of course, does not guarantee your happiness in the job, but greatly increases your chances. Makes sense? Most people do not vet any other questions. Yes? Sure. Why not? Again, that's in power. Screw them. They've put you through torture, all the fear of going in for the job and then you go and do the interview and you maybe screwed it up or didn't screw it up. Maybe you thought you did great, but they may not give it to you, unfortunately. They're always afraid of lawsuits, afraid of you arguing back. So very obviously, well, I'm sorry, we just decided to go in another direction but they're not going to tell you we're stupid. Or we looked for somebody with a little more experience. You know? Somebody with a different, little different skill set. So usually you don't get an honest answer about the things that are really central. You know? You sound at high maintenance. I won't tell you that. Then you'll clear out your fight back or whatever. They want to get rid of you. They want to get it. So if you have every right to ask, if you're going to do it, you need to do it in a way that makes clear that you're not going to be giving them a hard time. So you word it like this. You say, first of all, if you said you screwed up, if you screwed up in the interview, you have a second chance of undoing it by in your thank you note. In your thank you note, you can write, you know, on reflection, I had some additional thoughts on that question you asked me about blah. And you write it out. But we're talking about at the end, you didn't get the job you're asking for feedback. You write a polite letter saying I was very enthusiastic about the job because of blah, and blah, and blah, and of course was disappointed not to get it. But of course I want to keep growing like any good professional. So I'm wondering as I look to other jobs, is there any feedback you might give me that might help me? So you're not trying to get a second bite at the apple, you're just trying to get some feedback. Okay. Will it always work? No. Will it sometimes work? Yes. Any other questions about the yes? You and then you. I'm just wondering, and this is sort of a I'm interested in working specifically for a non-profit. So is everybody in the Bay Area? I'm sorry. So is everybody in the Bay Area? So would you say this is sort of a one-size-fits-all kind of advice and supplies? Or do you have specific advice for a non-profit? Yeah. Sure. There is tremendous suspicion in this country, but especially in the Bay Area, between the two sectors. If you've worked in the for-profit sector, they don't think you're sufficiently committed. And so if you're new to the non-profit sector, you need normally to show some real evidence of your commitment, because they're going to ask you normally to work longer hours for less money. And so you need to talk about how you volunteer or if you haven't, you need to volunteer. Or that you're, you know, if you're trying to work for the cancer society, that you lost your mother recently to cancer and it's really motivated you and realize that's what you really want to focus on, whatever it is. So you need to show the unusual commitment if you want to work non-profit sector. You also have, non-profits are extremely collaborative in the industry. We talked about the job description that lists everything under the sun. Again, every organization is different. But non-profits in general are extremely collaborative in the decision-making process. They're very team oriented. And so you need to show that you really are committed to that way of being. Bold and issued is individual. Bold action is not the way that most non-profits work. About teams, collaboration, sharing, consensus. And so you need to show that you fit in that environment. I would hate to work for a non-profit. I am absolutely a solo operator. That's just who I am, and so on. That's another point. I would say that, and I wrote that in the second handout. I would say that up front. That will get me rejected from the wrong jobs and accepted for the right ones. I think I wrote in the second one. Give me a hard problem. I'll do it myself on time and quickly and well. Put me on a team, I'll go nuts. And what that will do is not only will it get me rejected from the wrong jobs but then anything else I say positive about myself will be viewed much more credibly. Because I was acknowledging weaknesses. Yes, let's wait for the microphone. I need for the video. So I'm going to switch the question around. I've been working in the non-profit sector my entire career and right now I work at one of the biggest non-profits in the Bay Area and I went out. So the challenge I have is making that change. I don't know where I wear and or how to identify my passion. My passion and to get inspired again and find a job that will feed me with knowing what the bottom line is. Why don't you be the first makeover. Why don't you come on up. Yes, let's hear it for it. Staircase is there if you want to be. Thank you. So you mind telling us your first name? Marla. Marla. So tell me, you know you want to work in the for-profit sector but... I don't know if I want to work in the for-profit sector I'll be straight up. I want to make more money. That's my reality but I also want to work for an organization where I believe in the bottom line. So tell me some clues about who you are in your organization. Tell me about your strengths your weaknesses, your interests what you say the bottom line it sounds like you care about causes you care about those. Tell me some clues about you so we can work from there. I live by my heart. I'm very outspoken, very articulate well organized, love to travel. I like being in charge. Strong supervisor. Patience. I got that. What kind? You know you could feel that. How many of you felt that already? Right? Right. So what you said use the term bottom line but I assume you meant by that you meant causes. Bottom line, definitely. I can't see myself working for an IT company or for a technology company. Right now I work for an organization where the mission is to cut poverty in the Bay Area and the mission is so incredibly vast that it's hard to measure so I would love to find an organization whether it be non-profit or for-profit where that bottom line can be easily measured. What if I said that you framed the question wrong. You can disagree with me. The reason you're not making more money is because you're impatient. You're strong but maybe you're not a wise enough leader. Maybe you need to just wishy-washy. But maybe you need to learn how to affect change in two ways. One is doing more to be able to motivate people because I found myself even viscerally you know it's like I don't need a microphone I have a loud voice. You know it was like already you were it's like you knew better than me before. There was something of a know-it-all quality that I think can get you in trouble and maybe why you haven't advanced into a higher level position. So what if I said and then the second component apart from the people thing is if you're working for a large organization has a huge mission. The wise leader is very good about demarcating what he or she wants to focus on and takes on manageable projects that she can get wins on. So to is the problem not see if you go find some other job I wonder whether you're going to bring your problems with you and you still won't make all that more money or if any what if I said the answer really is to look in your current job and say okay I need to improve my leadership and communication skills and I need to be smarter about politically negotiating a turf that is manageable. What feels right and wrong about that? You hit the nail on the head. I mean what you're telling me I've heard before I mean I'm a development person for a nonprofit so I'm a fundraiser and my personality is perfect for that type of job and what I do I actually enjoy but I haven't told them to assert it. It's not because you're a woman don't you know a lot of times they use that woman that thing. It's my personality and it's not going to change but I think a challenge I do have this is really fascinating you're really hitting the nail on the head is that I don't know how to change in a way that works for me. The way to do it is with video watching yourself having these kind of conversations and this they're making a video and it's going to be posted on YouTube is that correct? You should watch yourself. You will see a million little things. Right. You will find a million little things. We make judgments on such subtle things like what's called the latency period. How much time exists between when I finish talking and you start. If you jump right in it says you don't respect me. It's making me feel one down. If you interrupt me I probably feel even less so and we know that East Coast people do it more but this is California. In California's land of laid back and it's been seven years we used to it. Well you know when in Rome do like Romans if you want to make more money you can't say I'm an East Coaster and I'm going to do it my way. So I invite you in terms of this three minute work over rather than look for another job look inward both at the communication style how you motivate people and whether the fundraising projects you're doing are the right ones. By the way I know a lot of developing people and in fact some of the best ones are very low they never even make an ask. They develop a relationship with heavy hitters and then it is they know the donor knows that you want money and at the right time they they volunteer. So there's a lot maybe that you need to learn about even fundraising. What do you think? A lot of food for thought. There you go let's hear it for her. That's why I entitle this talk straight talk. Thank you for what impressed me about you you open minded. You can get defensive. That's awesome. That speaks yes. That gives me much more optimism than most people who get defensive on the first little criticism. Yup. I think that's another good East Coast characteristic I think we're more used to getting criticized and realizing as long as it was benevolently derived it's the most loving thing you can do. Right. When somebody is oh you can do anything you want you're nice. Forgive my language shit. That's that's being nice but it's not being good. It's much more important to be good than to be nice. Who had a question? Hello my name is Marisa and I have been in I was a nurse for many years and went into clinical research for pharmaceutical company and I was part of that job. I was clinical trial manager I really don't like the other part. I'd like to get into the development part The other part is the record keeping you mean the reporting to the doctors? Exactly. The detail oriented part so I would like to get into a job where I build the relationships and I maintain the relationships but I don't have to worry about the details. I don't have a business background business degree and that's where I run into trouble. We're going to play a game. You ever been to the eye doctor? Yes. And get fitted for contact lenses or glasses? Yes. And they ask you is it better with lens one or lens two? Yes. And after a while you can't tell if you're stupid? Exactly. Right. So I'm going to give you simply two choices you simply tell me which is better and then eventually we'll be narrowing in like on the right. Lenses will be narrowing in the right. Okay. Would you rather be a discharge nurse in a hospital or would you rather be the patient than family liaison in an assisted living facility? Liaison. I just can't find a job doing that. Okay. Yes. That exact thing in an assisted living? Or just a paid liaison? No. I paid liaison. Okay. Would you rather work as a phone nurse at Kaiser an advice nurse or would you rather be a customer service relations person for a health insurance company talking to doctors talking to providers? Second. I prefer face to face. Okay. Face to face. Would you rather be the nurse in an urgent care clinic in those minute clinics like Walgreens or would you rather work for the insurance company as the liaison with doctors and nurses? Second. Okay. Now let's create a Marisa meter. Marisa. You like Marisa rather than Marisa? Okay. Let's create a Marisa meter. Let's say let's pick a I know everybody hates all insurance companies but which one insurance would it be Sutter? What would be the Kaiser? I just like all of them because their goal is different than my goal. It's to get you out fast and deny, deny, deny. I know. So in reality I wouldn't want to work for any of them. I would but that's who's out there. Do you rather be a patient advocate? Yes. Let's say somebody has been diagnosed with diabetes or cancer or whatever and they're going to be needing a lot of involvement and let's say they're scared of how to work the system. Would you rather work for that insurance company which would be more stable or would you rather be the advocate but you'd have to be your kind of self-employed person? In reality I would like to do the second part but I enjoy the team atmosphere more but personally in my personal life I have been the patient advocate and gone with friends and family members to the doctor's appointments and given them advice and be the pain in the neck to the doctor asking all the questions but I don't think I'm a self-starter to be in reality I know that about myself I like a team environment. I believe that the only survivor in the next few years in the healthcare space is going to be Kaiser. The Obama administration and what will be Kaiser's or Clinton administration hates insurance companies and will do everything possible to put them out of business and they'll just leave the so the only player left will be Kaiser and then it'll be single payer so really oh absolutely that's what's going to happen and remember as soon as the ACA is the Affordable Care Act is not kicked in yet Kingston next year the system is already overwhelmed and when you have all those millions of low pay people getting covered it's going to be unbelievable and then when comprehensive immigration reform occurs after Clinton or Sanders gets elected that's going to be 12.5 million more high need low pay people being covered by the same system it's going to be overwhelming and so he's going to say well we knew that so that's where we're going to get the single payer so I say that by saying that the smart move if you like a team environment is to work for Kaiser and so what I advise you there's many many jobs you never would have thought of whether it be patient educator trying to think about things that aren't huge details patient educator there are innovative programs that they do you've done your CRO clinical research organizations those of you I hired CROs so you know about clinical trials well you know while you don't want to do the details you'd be good at recruiting explaining the tests and the procedures and whatever play around the Kaiser website and see what kind of programs there are like that and you know these days everybody knows somebody who works at Kaiser chat with them tell them that what you like doing is you like the person-to-person contact you're not much on the details you do have a clinical trials background and you'd like to work for Kaiser is just somebody you should talk with Kaiser is such a behemoth it's so large that you'll likely get in it does that make sense yes I went to the JBS center I don't know if you're familiar with it JBS is Jewish Locational Services but they're open to everybody everyone the Jews are the only people taking everybody but themselves but that's another story and I attended a you know you look at the poor Palestinians they're all Jews but anyway I digress I I attended a panel discussion and somebody there was from Kaiser and I spoke to her afterwards and she said wow with your background there's so much you can do at Kaiser the problem is I dropped the ball and didn't follow up with her and it's been six months so what call her out of the blue of course but it's not out of the blue people know she's not waiting around hanging with baited breath waiting for your call say you know I've now moved to the point where I'm ready to make a move and I didn't want to contact you until I was here are my skill set who would you suggest I talk to I don't want to teach you it's called if you ask for a job they'll give you advice if you ask for advice they'll give you a job because they don't want to feel the pressure if I ask you can you give me a job you have any advice about what I might do and if you happen to have had a job possibility you would tell me about it you ask for a job they'll give you advice ask for advice they'll give you a job so you don't ask her for a job you ask her for advice and lastly how do you well two points actually how do you stand out because there are so many qualified applicants out there right now so you have to distinguish yourself so how do you ask an intelligent question that isn't the run of the mill and the other thing is how do you know really that you will fit in and not highlight your negative ask why I can't go and tell people I don't like details because there's details in every job so how do I spin it you don't have to spin it I want to be authentic well you're going to see throughout this one of the themes is going to be radical honesty you don't have to say I hate details but you can say I mean the truth you're going to hate me for saying this I want you to make believe you're the Kaiser employer and you're let's say in HR so there's many different jobs and I look you in the eye and say here are my strengths I'm very good at establishing rapport with people I'm really good at explaining things clearly I'm very reliable people on my team love working with me you know what I'm shitty and I would literally use that word because it feels more human I'm shitty with a lot of details so if a job requires a lot of details you don't want if you want some other job you want as I said that's going to establish your credibility it's going to get you rejected from the wrong job accepted for the right one radical honesty the older I get the more I believe that it is right for it's a no-brainer it makes you more credible it's right for the employer because they're going to know who you are it's right for the patients it's right for the cosmos for me to say if I were looking for a job I am a very judgmental guy I don't do well working along people who are not really smart I need to be with really smart people but I mainly need to be by myself and working on my own anything you involve in writing or speaking it will get done done well but you don't want me on a team especially with people who are lackluster nobody would ever do that but that's the best way for me to get a job that's right for me and right for the cosmos right for the employer and right for the cosmos so you want to know how to stand out that's how you stand out but also you can stand out in a million other little ways it's it's in B it's all the people doing the little things right it's showing up two minutes early it's being your best self it's being a little more I don't want you to be phony we all have different levels of enthusiasm by nature you want to be at the top of your range not beyond I don't want you to turn you into a New York Jew like me be near the top of your range that's still authentic but it is portraying your best self asking those good questions doing your homework and learning a fair amount about the job and thinking about it writing a thank you letter doesn't say thank you that's just obligatory but a thank you letter that says it was a real pleasure talking with you because of blah and blah and I'm gratified that you liked my answer to this and I did have one other something a piece of collateral with you were interested in my ability to write so I'm including a writing sample one of those things makes you a little better and again no guarantees but that absolutely boosts your chances and of course having a relationship with somebody she asked you to call as clear as an advantage what I don't believe for most job seekers is trying to build a new network it takes too much time by the time you build a network you're going to be homeless it takes time to build enough of a relationship so it's wise to use your existing network even if it isn't a very deep one not the LinkedIn ones those are a waste those shallow little LinkedIn connections they won't go back to you they might give you a courtesy referral but as I'll talk about later we all have only a certain amount of emotional gas that we have in our job search before we burn out we don't want to run out of gas before a good job we spend a lot of time exploiting these shallow little LinkedIn connections it's burning up a lot of gas not getting any every time you get rejected or ignored it's burning up gas so no but use the people who you know who actually know you and like you they don't have to be your best friend but they have to know you and like your friends, family, haircutter former coworkers, bosses lovers thank you for laughing okay next question by the way do you agree I find lecturing is narcissistic a lot of speakers love to lecture cause they like to flap their lips but it doesn't get to what the need of the audience is by devoting so much time to answering questions and doing workovers I feel I'm closer to where you are and where your needs are how many of you are feeling good that I'm focusing on answering questions okay great please ask a question and I'm curious about your thoughts I currently work for a state agency and I want to make a transition into the private sector and I'm finding that difficult it is difficult because again I talked about that huge distrust that exists between the sectors they think the people who work for the government frankly they think for the people who work for non-profits are extremely cause driven and very anti-profit and so companies are very reluctant people who work for the state they think are lazy and they took a state job because they knew it was that you can't get fired unless you rape a child so I think that's funny but it's not literally true but it's close to true you can't get fired from a state job basically unless you're I can actually verify that and what's frustrating for me is that I am not that person right so what you've got what I'm saying when there are biases for example there are many black people say that there's you know bias bias bias against blacks but even to the extent that it's true it's one maybe two strikes against you is not three strikes against you we all know blacks who who maybe we had an initial negative predisposition because we know the crime rate among blacks is higher than white and it would be stupid to not have it but as soon as they open their mouth you see they're intelligent, respectful whatever so that black person has got a shot it's the same baseball players with two strikes hit home runs same with you you've got a strike or two against you in working for a state where you don't have three strikes against you it just means you know blacks have often said you've got to work twice as hard to go half as far well you're going to have to work twice as hard to get that job in that first job in the private sector so you need to prove in your notice my energy level it doesn't feel very tired or non-profit or burned out right non-profit people are very laid back they're always tired if you're wanting to work in the public sector in the private sector they want you to be energetic so it comes you can show that you're not the typical burnout state employee with your everything from your tone of voice to the enthusiasm of your letter to the fact that it's going to be long but it's going to be crisp with bullet points and then in the interview you ask smart for-profit questions where you know I notice for example that your company is not invested in China was that a conscious decision or that you felt the cost-benefit ratio is poor you're using for-profit language can you see how even if you've got two strikes against you for working for the state you sound like that and all of a sudden you got a shot at getting at least a base hit if not a home run it really is like the black thing you may have a strike or two against you but you can still hit a home run let's get the microphone wait for the microphone and it's doable to go from the state back into the private industry because I actually did I guess my state service was kind of in between my private and my current private but it's doable but you definitely have to get involved in the industry you're targeting on a company you're targeting you speak the language you understand the industry the people the culture everything is a factor and whatever job you want to apply for you have to make sure you present yourself as the most capable person for that job for that company you know you can bring experience with you but they want to see that you can literally live in the same environment that they live in you know what kind of job you have in the private sector let's give it back to the microphone I would like to move into recruiting okay have you done that for the government I do it indirectly okay so you're going to have to make the case that you're great at recruiting you have a second strike against you it's not like you did recruiting for the state so what you need to do is certainly your resume needs to highlight recruiting things that you did and put that in your resume you need to have stories ready called par stories to tell examples of where you recruited in other words par story is a problem you faced how you approached it in the positive result so the problem was we were looking for a Ruby on Rails programmer who was willing to move to Sacramento and blah blah blah and rather than the usual route which is simply to place an ad on the on the state website I happened to know six people who were in high tech IT and got referrals from them and we ended up hiring a rock star so that's the problem how you approached it you either clever or dogged approach you used and then the positive result each of those things boost your odds and if you have not had experience in doing recruiting you at minimum need to do what I call a white paper you can sometimes trump the lack of experience by writing a white paper which is a two to three page the equivalent of a term paper that would impress your target employer so it would be for example if you're interested in doing recruiting the private sector is very big are you looking for packaged goods high tech what kind of recruiting healthcare yes probably more healthcare and admin great so you should write a two to three page paper called seven keys to admin recruiting in the year 2016 and beyond you Google it you find articles you talk to recruiters you call recruiters for admins you get as much information and you just turn into an awesome two to three page white paper seven keys or six keys or five keys to recruiting in 2016 and beyond and you include that with your applications that will show that you're current and up to speed will it trump having three years of experience no it won't because it gives you a shot yes it does because her point is right you got to learn about your field specifically more questions? speaking of the white paper concept where would you publish that in my industry there's a lot of recruiting or job opportunities that come about because recruiters are out looking on the internet well it can be nowhere it can simply be something you hand to them but of course it's better certainly LinkedIn has something called Pulse where you can publish anything you want on Pulse and so you can simply post it there and then include a link to it with your job applications or forums there are forums in LinkedIn and other than Yahoo forums and in your professional associations you can post your article on a blog and then a link from your blog to the forums in your professional association there are very often magazines trade magazines I've had a CFO client who was laid off and I asked him one of the ways we could get access to him to get access to other CFO level people would be to get a commission to write an article on CFO's predictions for 2016 so he went to CFO magazine and say I have been a CFO currently unemployed but interested in finding the lay of the land from some of the luminaries in the field can you let me write an article and they said well you don't have really a track record but I'll take it I'll let you do it and we'll see if I like it or not great that was enough for him to have an assignment to be able to contact CFO's and say I'm on assignment with CFO magazine I'm interested in talking to the luminaries in the field about your projections for 2016 he was able to get access to CFO's that he never otherwise could have gotten access to now I'd be lying to you if I said he got a job the problem really was the technique was great it just doesn't make that good an impression he's a beat off he doesn't quite get it anymore I think someone was age related he just seems to not quite be on the money and at that level CFO level you've got to be pretty sharp and so it didn't work for him I won't lie that's a great technique the way of getting your thing published and getting access to people you otherwise never get seven nurse, seven clinical trials nurses projections about how the field will change in 2016 there must be a publication read by clinical by CRO's and by you know a pharma trial people get it published there or it was simply on a forum online it wouldn't be a magazine good morning Mr. Nemko I appreciate the good work that you're doing in this field thank you very much my question is I kind of know my strengths but I don't want to limit myself to particular jobs or fields how would I go about finding a coach that does really good work on a cheap on a free yes come on up alright it's interesting I was waiting for somebody to you know if I were coming up I would climb up here so nice and polite and walking around anyway okay what's your name Rudy so you can't be open to anything I know you know because then you need to have some kind of you don't have to be super narrow because if you're super narrow you're closing off too many options but if you're all over the place you're down desperate and you won't know enough about any one thing to impress anybody hire you so let's come up with something that isn't so specific but isn't all over the map either okay so tell me some clues about you sure I like doing a lot of reading I like synthesizing information building new ideas conceptualizing things I don't like working with my hands as much so machinery or artistic things of that nature I find that I don't take a whole lot of risk I like things that are stable and I already figured out kind of thing so what do you like to read I like to read a lot of books on psychology, social psychology self-improvement leadership things that make you perform better in your life what have you done before what kind of work have you done before currently I'm a mental health counselor in San Francisco so I do a lot of work with like making people better giving them advice suggestions in group settings case management work that kind of thing what's making you want to change from that it's just I just feel like my my worth my knowledge my what I have to offer is just not being optimized I mean I have a master's degree in things that nature and I feel like I'm not getting the amount of money in the amount of challenge that I think I deserve and need so let's look at that there can be a couple of reasons for that is that because it's just dead end you there's just no opportunities in your agency is your boss doesn't like you for irrational reason is that you've done something wrong and you could be doing more if you were to look honestly in your soul what do you think are the reasons that you haven't gotten more responsibility in money there's a couple of reasons in the beginning I was given opportunities by my boss to become the director at my job but it wasn't the right time I had other family obligations and I just couldn't do it I was going to graduate school so there was other things that was getting in the way when I finally graduated and did the things that I did in my family situation change then I wanted to get those jobs but they weren't there great do you want would you you know I know you say you like writing reading and you know thinking and analyzing would you like that job similar to that because that would be the easiest for you to get because you've got a background that kind of lends itself to going there or do you want to do something completely different I want to combine a little bit of both it's a little bit of like stuff that I do now with people because I feel like that's something that I'm really good at is communicating and understanding people but also have like a desire to like do um conceptual work build new ideas and you know further to field and certain like you know it could be tech or something like that but something that sort of like utilize my ability to synthesize information you don't have a tech background why would you say tech because that's one of the other fields that I've been finding myself getting more fascinated with I don't have a tech background I have a healthcare administration background and biology background what's what about technology is fascinating to you what do you what are your skills and technology statistics analysis I have a background in some statistical programming but it's very limited I mean when I went to graduate school it was like so let's say we're going to create a Rudy meter and the Rudy meter goes from zero to ten with zero means the idea makes you puke and ten means it gives you an orgasm okay I do like when people haven't I like that that's good right so the idea of you working for the state of California in program development and evaluation because you've got some statistics background in the mental health space developing programs and evaluating them scores of what on the Rudy meter 7.5 what keeps it from being a 10 my stereotypes how many more stereotypes of once I get in that field perhaps I don't know just I just don't feel like I would be able to move up as far as I think I deserve okay so let's tweak that let's say it's now a company that provides mental health services you know what EAP is employee assistance program corporations hire these outside firms provide counseling services and they develop programs drug prevention programs race relations programs whatever and then they've developed and they evaluate them but it's a company what does that score on the Rudy meter let's probably close it to an 8 what keeps it from being a 10 just don't have a familiarity with it well that's going to be true of anything I can I'm going to mention is there something you have familiarity with that could score higher than an 8 um let's see I guess the current work that I'm doing now with the some of the counseling and using ideas to like benefit people like you know non-traditional ways of thinking and looking at so are you saying that the problem is not the right is not the job but the agency what if you simply look for a parallel job where there may be a bigger top where there may be more ability to do instead of just the one-on-one where you have a seat at the table in program development evaluation so maybe you don't need a career change at all maybe just need to change a location a change of jobs does that feel right this is like about a nine nine what keeps that from being a 10 um I don't know let's take a moment think about it what keeps that from being a 10 um perhaps not enough money and so if I said that there are two if that's the right job the after-tax difference remember if you're going to be getting more of a seat at the table you're going to be making somewhat more money and anything above that is going to be taxed at your highest rate because taxation is what's called progressive aid or 35% federal another 8 to 11% state so the actual after-tax difference is not that great you shouldn't worry so much about that you should go for the job that you're going to do well that's going to be a little more intellectually stimulating and not just one-on-one patient care client care and if you need more money maybe at some point you could do some kind of fun some other would you if there was a little if you want additional money would you rather you're very verbal so would you rather teach a class to make a few extra bucks or would you rather do something completely different to make a few extra bucks I'd rather teach a class what would you teach a class in that you think people would pay something for um how to uh solve your problems and novel new ways and challenging ways how to challenge yourself how to improve yourself so if I say where I want you to do is I want you to go to the adult school ahead of the adult school and you're wherever you live and offer to teach a class that pay about 25 bucks an hour and you make a point of teaching one class every semester so you're making a few extra bucks it's providing a little pizzazz in your life and you also look for another agency where instead of just doing the one-on-one you may have more of a seat at the table to use your program development analysis and evaluations how does that feel as a plan 10 thank you oh you're good okay cool yes let's wait for the microphone to come to you by the way before we get to her was there any lesson in what I did with him that applies to you want to say again don't give up anything else tell me what you mean clarifying stereotypes tell me what you mean what else anything else could be career change is very hard he wants more money he's going to make a career change and this is the kind of no nonsense talk that I like to give in general they pay you less money to do something new they're going to pay you more to do what you do do what you have experience in and because of that as well as very often as with the first person who came up here what's needed is not necessarily a career change but a tweak either a different employer in the same field or as in her case internal changes so before you run to a new career realize you're probably going to make less money in the new career and you may very often bring your problems with you so your first step should be to look inward and say how could I change myself or my job description in my current job let's say you're somebody who is more of this people person likes to interact with people and you're spending all this time detail writing the reports on each patient's you know when they showed up with their blood pressure with all the rest of this crap see if you could trade maybe to somebody else who loves the details and who hates all the interpersonal stuff see if you can trade assignments with them or somehow change your job let's say you're bored you've been doing this James job for a million years and you're sick and tired of it what if you're a project what if you're a dancer and you're an accountant what the hell does a dancing have to do with accounting well what if you decided that you were going to put on instead of the usual picnic we're going to have a dance or we're going to have a talent show do something to add juice to your job that isn't as much of a pain in the ass as trying to change careers so change yourself change some little aspect of your job add a little cool bonus to the job or look to change employers but stay in the same field those are a lot easier than deciding that you are an admin in the state and now you want to become a recruiter for a company those are tough sales because although the unemployment rate is 5.2% for any decent job they get a zillion applicants because there's so many jobs that are part-time temp contract so if it's a decent job they're getting a zillion applicants and they're not going to take a newbie unless they decide they're going to take a newbie and they're going to pay him or her shit which you don't want anyway so before you obviously you've got a terrible job, terrible boss, whatever on ethical then you've got to leave but think about tweaking before dumping great question oh you, right, yes you had the microphone hi I'm Danielle so I have reached a career plateau I'm currently a nanny and this is certainly not where I envisioned I would be 10 years ago when I graduated with a bachelor's in science and biology since I was a little girl I had always envisioned that I would be a doctor I went to medical school I left halfway through because of personal issues and then I spent a few years after taking care of family members and then I kind of fell into nannying because I wanted to be a pediatrician initially and I loved children and now I'm not quite sure how to make a transition into something that I would actually enjoy doing I said you should go, you should become a physician assistant there will be tremendous for the reasons I outlined there'll be enormous demand for physician assistants there'll be six-figure salary and specialized impedes you know pediatric physician assistant it's not that long a training program you can start a community college the actual cost of training is not like being a doctor is crazy, I teach at UCSF medical school it's $300,000 that's a public institute, $200,000 $200,000 for a medical degree that's crazy go be a PA specialized impedes you've already taken a lot of the coursework they have they have programs for people who already have bachelor's degrees it may be a shortcut in where do you live? Walnut Creek I only know about one program look through Google PA physician assistant programs and then the word Foothill because I know Foothill down in Mountain View has a great PA program but by Googling that you'll probably find the names of others if you're lucky, something like Diablo Valley or some East Bay one but I'm not saying you should do that I'm curious as to your reaction to that I'm fearful I had never let's get you up here, come on up just for those of you who are crossing your legs we will be taking a break in 10 minutes I'm not coming up, I'm coming up the stairs too she's got short legs, we excuse her started Rudy actually it would be a big jump for me that's funny, right so fear, what's the fear? before I left medical school I'd never failed at anything before and it was really hard to leave medical school and to be like oh my personal issues are making me not because I failed over the past let's say medical school is ridiculously hard for no reason it happens to be, because I do teach in the medical school I know and the more prestigious the school, the more ridiculously hard what I call it, irrelevant hard you got to memorize a hundred hormones shit you'll never need to know your whole life, masses of it in the era of the internet when so much of it is available and they spend little time on real I shouldn't say this in the video they don't spend enough time in my judgment on doing differential diagnosis in treatment, so I don't want you to think you're not good because you can't learn irrelevant hard shit I'd rather in a PA program it's going to be more practical less theoretical, it's not taught at UCSF now, you'll find I think you will succeed if you are good enough to get into medical school you will succeed as a PA and you know this is going to sound crazy, but I profoundly believe you can learn a lot about a person by looking remember I said after 40 years this is a kind woman I feel this is a kind woman in your heart of hearts do you believe you're a kind woman that I know, I didn't actually know on the flip side I didn't know I was in college until I left medical school which I believe is a sampling I think that speaks a lot tell me more about that you knew most people can't get into medical school you had to take all that organic chemistry or organic physics and biology why did you not think you were smart even though you could get into medical school I think that stems just to the kind of person that I became just growing up why did you become, was it your daddy, your mommy I mean really was it your peers, were you really killed for being short what was the deal I knew that was coming the short thing, I knew it was coming to my family but yeah, no it's a predominately just a nature you know, a nurture thing more of a nurture what made you lack hearing you were this bright woman bright enough to get into medical school what happened in your childhood my parents stay more so I grew up in a household where you don't take geometry when you're in fifth grade but I got a 98 this is the kind of household I grew up in so I got a 98 on a geometry test and it was like where are the other two points with expletives so that's kind of household I grew up in how old are you now 32 is it time and again forgive anybody anybody offended by my cursing what if I say it's time to say fuck you to your parents you know not in total I want you to forgive them but I want you to say fuck you to the message that you are a loser, you were smart enough to get into medical school then, you're not shackled sometimes people, especially if they're going to a lot of therapy they keep fanning the flames of what their mother and father did and it makes it worse I'm going to be now this is where I was kind I'm going to be tough, grow up it's time to not be saddled by childhood messages it's sad that you'd be a nanny nanny is wonderful but you can't make a living no I can't, I want to make money you have to make a living, you have to be a normal especially in this area, how many do I have right, so it's time to say fuck you to the message that you are inferior or not smart enough and take deep breaths and baby steps and become a PA and be a loving and kind PA to children and I believe in my soul that you could do it you believe me what I'm saying mostly what part of you doesn't, please be honest that's the most important thing I have a lot of years of insecurity to shake make believe I'm you and I say I have a lot of years of insecurity to shake what's your advice to me oh my goodness, I'd probably be your biggest cheerleader like when I speak to other people even strangers on the street so what's the smartest way to put aside the insecurity I have insecurities to just do it that's usually the smartest way can we have a little round of applause for the good day what a great time to take a break so we're going to take a 15 minute break and the reason it's a little long is two things at the end afterwards I'm going to stab do I have to get kicked out of here at one o'clock yes so what I'm going to do is this am I allowed to sign books or no we're not really set up for it don't worry okay don't worry about it during the program before work off during the break I was just going to sign books and then and then at one o'clock can I do the piano thing sure so afterwards I'd like to say this I saw as I was walking down here I saw a piano I never met a piano I didn't like I wrote it has no words but I wrote a piece of music that kind of describes the typical process of my clients they come in scared, sad, quiet typically and then they slowly make progress and then get a nice big breakthrough and then they end up resolving things and being peaceful again so any of you who wants when I'm done I will play that for you out on the piano that's right outside you see there are ways to build the creative side of who you are whether it's dancing or writing or whatever into even career counseling who were to think who were to thunk it so my book is how to do life what they didn't teach you in school a third of it is about career but others it's about my best advice about relationships money, meaning of life health, everything it's designed really to be like this little black book that keeps you through life with not obvious but helpful tips so it's only 10 bucks and I will sign them here so 15 minute break 13 minutes it's now 27 at 11.40 we start