 How's everyone doing? All right, I got 20 bucks on my hand show hands how many people want this $20? All right, cool cool if I take this $20 and I crumple it up. I throw it on the ground stomp it out. Who still wants it? Cool, cool, but if I took this $20 kind of got it all up in my business You know all up in there fucking took it on the ground again really dug it on the ground who would still want it? Nice You know this goes to show you even though I did all whatever I did to the $20 it actually never lost its value I'm like the $20. I'm a grateful recovering addict that goes by the name of John So I'm very grateful that you know Drupalcon allowed me to come and do this kind of offbeat topic It's not too often that a recovering addict actually comes to a tech conference and gives a you know a speech like this, but I think all right, so I'm John Willett. I'm the sales engineering manager at tandem We do elite Drupal where press level no JS development We also make Lando if anybody has used it if you're not make sure you're using it now Also decide tidbits. I'm a enamored with a celebrity gossip any Social media drama people who puts their whole family drama on Facebook. I'm like this is great You know I live for that stuff and any dank memes out there So, you know this is like I mentioned earlier kind of kind of different, you know What do you know? How do you give a talk like this at you know a tech conference? And you know I'm going to talk a little bit about addiction I'm going to I'm going to tell you a little bit about myself and and we're going to talk a lot about you know people who are come from different backgrounds and and and don't fit into the general mold and and How you can accept them and and build up their confidence and fun stuff like that So, you know, there's a lot of controversy right now about addiction. I mean, it's very much in the news Especially with this administration. There's a humongous opioid You know epidemic happening across this country. I grew up in New Hampshire and it's facing like one of the worst heroin and opioid Epidemics that this country has ever seen worse than the crack epidemic really really bad so You know what people understand is I was an addict before I ever took my first drink before I ever took my first drug I was born an addict. I Exhibited a lot of addictive behaviors as a young child You know and nobody really wants to think their four-year-old is an addict. It just doesn't work that way, you know, so The solution for everybody is just stop using drugs. Well, no shit, you know, I'd never thought of that before Thanks, you know, I'm cured The problem is is the drugs are just a catalyst of of addiction Addiction is a mindset and a behavior set that causes you to do things such as drugs or whatever and addiction is all-encompassing I'm addicted to everything from sex to women to gambling to work to money Power I want it all. I want all the things. I'm addicted to more and and and many addicts fall under that Drugs just happen to be the worst-case scenario for four people that suffer from addiction So what's up with me? All right, so you know When I when I when I talk about this I try to get the bad stuff out of the way first, you know, I've been to prison, you know I've I've been shot by my father. He also killed my mother killed himself. I've been stabbed I've been arrested so many times, you know, like I mentioned earlier. I did a bunch of time However, prior to all that You know, I grew up like everybody else. I grew up in a nice small town in New Hampshire My father did very much what we do He owned a consulting firm computer called consulting firm AS 400 and system 32s and so I grew up around this industry before I had a computer before anybody else did and You know, I He was we were upper middle class I mean he came from nothing and and built his life up and he grew his agency the size of like a media current or or a Very large agency in Massachusetts. And so, you know, I Never went without You know, he worked a lot and and he could he was abusive Physically and mentally at times and you know, I got older It was more mental than physical because he just couldn't hit me anymore because I could fight back, you know, but For the longest time, I just never fit in, you know, I I felt like I was always the odd man out I you know, I always feel like, you know, when I explain it's like Ricky Bobby and Talladega nights when he's given his speeches Like I don't know what to do with my hands, you know, that's how I felt my entire life like something just wasn't right and and as you know as like junior high and high school started to happen and drugs and other things like that when I Refer to drugs I refer to alcohol to because alcohol is a drug The most dangerous drug in the world So when I started, you know doing drugs, it was like I finally fit in I found like like this common glue that that People accepted me because I could drink more than everybody I could party harder than everybody, you know I was the cool kid all of a sudden and and I felt great you know, but It really wasn't great, you know, I Kind of followed the path that most people did, you know, I was high school military College grad school. I had you know good jobs and stuff, but I was always a hot mess of epic proportions I I had really high highs and really really low lows And and until my parents murder suicide like I kind of use that as a catalyst that that final thing to Decimate my life what would left of it and and you know, I didn't get cleat all I was 36 and so You know Like I mentioned before by the time I was in my 30s It was you know, I had some money and If I would come to a convention like this, you would never see me. I would be out at the bar I'd be parting with the cool kids, you know getting really messed up I'd be you know at the late-night things and and and and whatnot and You know that what happened over time was like all I did was just drink all day take pills all day and And that's all I cared about it just encompassed my entire being for the longest time and and pretty much till it got to the point where I ran out of money and I I hurt Every single person that cared about me that loved about me, you know, they I just I just destroyed all of that and and I ended up homeless you know, I was um, you know a master's educated homeless person and And it's I remember I remember when I was an intake in jail and they asked you like on on on the thing I was like what what's your highest level education? I was like master's and like, you know, wow, we don't hear that well And I'm just like just because I'm well educated doesn't mean I don't do stupid things, you know, so You know, it was it was very humbling and weird because when I was Homeless and I've been homeless twice in my life I had kind of a period prior to that to where I was kind of couch surfer living out of my car There was a few relatives who kind of gave me a second chance and and life kind of happened And I was able to pick up the pieces, but I was never really whole again But the last time I was homeless. I was truly homeless. I had nothing nobody nobody wanted anything to do with me They're like keep Johnny away from us. He's a hot mess, you know And all he all I do is like steal cause fights. I Just I was very abrasive and not fun to be around so, you know, when I was homeless the last time I um, I My whole world Centered around trying to get $20 a day $20 would get me high keep put a you know a dollar burger in my belly and put a couple bucks gas and a pack of cigarettes That's pretty much like my whole world. That's all I cared about So if I had to take it from you, I was gonna take it, you know And I did some horrible horrible things during that time and that I for the longest time Was afraid that you know, the feds were gonna knock on my door or other things like that even after I got clean So I'm grateful that never happened, but But that's just the wreckage of my past and that's part of who I am, you know You know along the way of a lot of other things happened and you know, I have two children I was married before And when I was homeless, I pretty much chewed up everything I could with my son's my my son's mother and she was the one that suggested I go to a homeless shelter and You know, I was I was like, I'm not going to a homeless shelter, you know, I'm just not gonna do it that stigma kind of was It's like I just don't want to do this and and finally I spoiled my pride and and and that was and again You know, I have a lot of gratitude around that because it was it was the springboard that kind of got me clean and And catapulting me to where I am now You know in that homeless shelter they brought any meetings in there and It gave me something to do, you know There wasn't like a magical moment when I walked into a narcotics anonymous meeting be like, all right. I'm clean. Yay It was kind of like I don't have to go back to the barracks, you know The homeless shelter and listen because part of time I was detoxing off of what I was using and and if Detoxing is also another thing I never ever want to go through again. It was horrible It took about six six or seven weeks till I was fully detoxed and that time was very painful Auditory you're all your senses are messed up. You're your physical pain. You can't eat. You can't sleep It's horrible and I made it through that but at the same time I was in this place I was really really loud full of chaos and so the NA kind of gave me a place to go and And it kind of stuck, you know, I kept going back And and I kind of faked it till I made it and that's a kind of a common saying, you know and I was very grateful and You know, I met a guy his name was Steve and you know, he kind of gave me I didn't have any money And he gave me this, you know, it was my basic text. This is my manual as an addict You know, you've heard a rtfm as a coder. This is my manual and Unfortunately though About a month after Steve gave me that he relapsed and died And it's a constant reality that I live with I've known at least 10 people that have gotten clean and died and I've been clean for almost six years now And it's scary because it is very real. I mean, he went and had surgery and got Prescribed a script and he was dead two days later with a needle in his arm And that's very you know I recently had all my teeth removed because I'm in the middle of getting all implants in and I hate wearing dentures And I have a lot of fear right now. Everybody's judging me because I don't have any teeth in but I don't care And I had to take a narcotic. I took one pill You know, it was you know, I talked about with my sponsor and all these people and it was it was it was a big deal And and I made it through it though. Okay, you know But yeah, so, you know flash forward I was living in a clean house and You know, I I knew somebody who was in the Drupal community and they they were starting a new company and they and They posted something on Facebook and I kind of reached out and and they hired me, you know so I was very fortunate and I Kind of lied my way into the door to be honest and and and was able to kind of faked it until I made it I mean, I didn't I had a computer science degree, but I hadn't coded in 10 years I had no PHP knowledge, I barely knew Drupal and And they kind of you know, they taught me and kind of showed me, you know how to do things and and there was no Drupal learning curve for me. Fortunately just kind of made sense and it kind of took off So I don't know that's kind of cool, but You know long story short is I know they had to jump through some hoops and took some chances and hired me Because at the time I was out on probation or I was out on bail actually and I was about to be put on probation I'd only been clean for a few months. I was a convicted felon at the time, you know Everything screams like don't hire this guy and they did So, you know, here I am, you know six years later So, you know, that's a little bit about me and how I kind of got to where I was before So, you know, it kind of gets into nitty-gritty like someone took a chance on me and and so Kind of brings us to the point like, you know, what's going on in the world, you know 10 years ago someone probably would have never hired me 10 20 30 years ago and You know This world is changing very very fast We live in a very politically charged universe right now more so probably like when my parents were younger in the 60s And and things are happening and and there's so much hatred on either side that like I kind of stay off social media now Because I'm just like I can't take it like it's just so much anger and you know It affects me too because as a recovering addict, I see what people think of people who are still lost in active addiction I see that on social media like that effing loser. Why can't you take care of your kids? You know, why can't you hold the job? Just stop using drugs, you know and and I made a choice early on in my I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna be anonymous I was gonna I was gonna go out there and make noise because the only way you can change your social stigma is if you show that the stigma isn't real And so I started to do that and and I know I've changed people's minds. I still see some of the comments I can't change other people's you know behaviors, but at least I can show them that by example that you know Not every addict is is you know completely lost and and they can change they just need to be shown a certain way So, you know what's socially acceptable is has changed so much when I was a kid I mean I grew up in an all-white town and and you know, there wasn't you know things were just much different and you were gay and sexual orientation and all this other stuff just was never talked about and And that's completely different like the world is a very different different place than when I grew up and so I mean You know, if you're not accepting that then then you're part of the problem You're holding the progression of the human race back by by being Inept and unable to accept that people come from different backgrounds different cultures different realities than that You know the then the cookie cutter life you may grew up in And and you know, it's it's it's the melting pot that kind of made You know this country what it was and in other places as well So, you know on the on the plane right here I actually watched this thing and I kind of forgot about the guy's name because I'm a little nervous But it's a billionaire they work for he owns like this giant hedge fund and he started this thing in China to kind of put all these like kids through so that it would like Remove like the the social and cultural bound boundaries that cause war when another, you know Type of culture tries to take over another one like China is doing right now They're they're growing in their middle class is growing and it was very interesting And and and I wish I could remember it but whatever so But that kind of proves to the point that you know people need to do things to change things because if you know if you Don't do that then And you're gonna be left behind and it's only gonna get you know progressively Faster and things are gonna happen quicker and and you know if someone didn't take a chance on me I wouldn't be here right now because they knew that there was something about me that was different You know, like I mentioned before I have a pretty shady past, you know You know with all all the drugs I did all my all my all my convictions were violent Violence that was a fighter. I get messed up and I'd like to fight, you know And and that doesn't really look good on paper And and even though it had been like 10 plus years prior it's still it is what it is But you know, I did bring stuff to the table I had worked many different jobs including sales and other things like that so I could you know Bring something to the to the team that that nobody else could do at the time And and that's what they played on at first until I started to pick up Drupal and started to write code again And things like that and it worked You know and and they did and and I've done this with other people I've hired They you know, you have to set, you know, some some like minimum bar like that they have to hit Otherwise, it's like what's the point of doing this and that's that's the same for any job but you know When you take a chance on somebody you just can't let them take the ball and run with it because you'll end up hurting yourself And and the thing that you know anybody that I've ever trained is like we would meet weekly and one of things They always used to hear me say it's how does that make you feel, you know How did this make you feel what's going on? You know, it's okay to cry and Drupal It's things like that and and You know, especially for me I'm always self-conscious and I'm always obsessive like part of addiction is an obsessive behavior And I'm always like did I do this right or did I put that person off or am I am I okay? You know, I'm always thinking I'm always comparing myself to somebody else So in return when I when I am I'm training someone or if I'm managing someone I make sure that regular feedback is a must because If you don't give that they'll never know I mean it's pretty simple You know because someone took a chance on me we are a community they don't call it the Drupal community for nothing You know, I've written I've written many contrib modules I mean, I'm doing like really crazy stuff with Drupal 8 now like all this breast API integration and Mixing stuff with one hub and BlackBot and Slack and everybody this past like a couple months I think I've written three modules alone And and that would have never happened, you know, someone didn't take a chance on me the community wouldn't have those things I mean they could have eventually but you know The reality is that they're there because someone you know Someone took a chance on me and I wrote the codes and there it is and I've written some really complex cool stuff And I've given non like touchy-feely sessions at other you know camps and content I've spoken at Drupal con once before about growing support team and I've you know Done a lot of things and one of the things that I'm most grateful for is you know I started a mentorship program and my predecessor and Now here's the three people that I train, you know Katie Amy June and Daniel and None of them had computer backgrounds none of them were you know a CS major like I was You know Katie was a recent college grad Amy June was a nurse and Daniel will kind of was like a IT guy ex cop type of deal, you know, so and You know, they were just looking to get their foot in the door and so I Had I'd gone. I remember a few years ago. We I had gone to one of the sessions at Drupal con I think it was an LA or something and Zivtech they were given a presentation on their mentorship program I was like, that's a good idea, you know, I want to do that So I reached out to Jody and I was like, hey, what's up tell me everything, you know You know, that's another part of the community is we're an open-source community We we it's okay to share knowledge and we don't have to like give every bit of information But you know, she was more than grateful to sit down and talk with me and and kind of like tell me You know how Zivtech did their mentorship program and I modeled our mentorship program after that and it was successful You know the one thing though, you know like mentorship isn't for everybody you know, especially when you're training rookies is that They don't know anything and especially with those three they had no computer background really So teaching them from the fundamentals from scratch all the way to like complex like Drupal 8 stuff It takes time and patience and and things like that. So If you're not okay with answering 42 billion questions a day, then don't do it Don't be a mentor, you know, because it's not gonna happen You know as a senior developer It's my it's my one of my jobs is to make sure that you know people that don't have the experience that I have Can learn from me because I asked a 42 billion questions when I first got into Drupal and I was able to you know pick it up and learn so You know, one of the things that killed me was They're not gonna be profitable. They're not gonna be billable. They're not gonna make your company money It's a reality. Yeah, they're you're investing in their future. All right, so if you if you treat people like numbers on a spreadsheet, you know, then I Have choice words and I'm not gonna go into them for people who do that, but you know, it's just that's that's not the name of the game here We're creating future people of Drupal We're creating people that will give back to this community and eventually they'll be able to make your company a lot of money and You know the community It's it's not It seems okay now like a year or two ago I had questions if the Drupal community was gonna survive especially after the release of Drupal 8 and the huge learning curve And and I saw our people like you know, I'm on sales and I we we do, you know Cold cold source blasting to where I talked to people who use Drupal There's a lot of people leaving Drupal for WordPress and other things Out there that had like Drupal 6 7 sites that don't want to pay the hundred thousand dollars to upgrade to Drupal 8 And and it's like crap, you know, it's my job security You know in question now, but it seems to be you know coming around but still You know even myself like there was a lull in my contributions that towards like right around when Drupal 8 came out Cuz like Drupal 7 kind of hit that maturity state and I wasn't really active in the cues anymore I wasn't doing anything I wasn't making new modules and then like I said recently all of a sudden it's like boom boom boom Because it almost feels like we're starting over again with Drupal 8 the way that pretty much everything works And there's a lot of things that aren't ported yet, and there's a lot of functionality missing You know, I just finished a really complex Drupal 8 migration And it took like 12 really custom modules to replace like a bunch of contrib modules that used to exist in Drupal 7 So it's different, you know, and we need people to to you know Come in and help write the codes and get things along and it takes everybody, you know We need as many people as we can to move this project forward So, you know kind of like how You know, how can you take a chance on someone like me, you know, how does your company? You know hire an ex-con or hire someone that doesn't have a CS degree or hire someone that just you know doesn't fit your typical mold of whatever you may be looking for and Everybody everybody, you know, like I mentioned before everybody has their own skill set their own You know talents that they can bring to a team because it is a team You know, nobody's just a solo practitioner even though sometimes, you know You'll be heads down writing code and you forget you exist, you know, but that's just you know the way it is but I mean You know when we look to hire, you know bring those other people into the other mentorship program I just talked to them and had conversations and I could tell you know by asking them something like aim type questions Like that they had a logical mind that they could figure this out and that you know They could they could take criticism and other things like that And that was kind of like the deciding factors to like bring them into the mentorship program So, you know, if you're looking to do that then I suggest doing something like that But if you know, you're looking to hire someone to grow them. It's the same thing You know when I when I was like learning Drupal, there was a lot of you know monthly check-ins and quarterly one-on-ones and all this HR stuff and things and You know to make sure that I was doing the right thing so that like their investment their chance and me Paid off and it did And it went for the other people I trained we we had weekly meetings and monthly one-on-ones And you know in our one-on-ones is just like I didn't talk I was like tell me what's up. What's going on? What's wrong? How do you feel you know? And you know, sometimes they're a quick con was sometimes like I don't understand this It's okay to say you don't know things because the only way you're going to learn is if you say that so You know, don't be afraid to fail. I had to fail 42 billion times before I got to the way I am now And and and failure is an acceptable thing and it's a very hard concept to grasp especially in our American society to where Success is such like a big, you know key factor to everything but it's okay, you know, so Another thing too is like I mentioned earlier don't let like people give the ball at them run with it You mean you have to set expectations and and check-ins and and and make sure that like that those people are doing okay because I mean I never had to experience it, but if someone didn't work out then they don't work out I mean, that's just the reality of life as well Not everybody can do this And that's okay, you know, maybe you could find something else they could do So, you know Kind of touched on like how you can kind of accept people in different backgrounds and and kind of give them, you know The strength and you know hope to to you know go forward and do great things and you know You know when I got into NA you know and again kind of gave me the the you know the framework to Address my addiction and you gave me by working the steps. I was able to develop a tool set to Kind of handle all my issues that I may have Drupal gave me the financial security I needed to kind of alleviate Any concerns around that because I mean finances and other things like that were always a big deal to me So when I would like lose a job because I was too messed up to do something, you know Yeah, I would go down this really deep rabbit hole So kind of Drupal gave me the confidence and that final security, you know financial security back and because of that, you know, I've I've I've used my coding skills outside of Drupal. I've I've I've developed two Narcotics Anonymous area websites that I've been on like I'm very big in service and services like narcotics anonymous It's structured almost like a government body You have like different levels of service and it's the group level the area region world It kind of goes up and I've been involved in service like since I almost got clean and I built a couple websites I've been the regional conferences. I built their website I've talked to the world board We put out a distribution for WordPress Drupal six seven and eight so other fellowships can go ahead and spin out websites easily I've done a lot. I I'm always a busy guy, you know You know My shirt, you know my the shirt with my face on it This actually has to do with my son. I have nothing to do with me It's actually I'm very socially awkward. So when I wear this to a party around here and people as they get drunk Or they're like, oh, you know your your face is on your shirt I'm like, no, it's not, you know, and I walk away, but And so but you know, this was for my son actually my son is on the autism spectrum And he was getting bullied at school. And so My gut reactions just go beat the crap out of the kids, you know, that's that's how I deal with things But I kind of took a step back and I was like, well, you know My son doesn't live with me, but I wanted him to feel like I was always with him So I had I kind of commissioned this this kind of cheeky wear a type of looking shirt And and I was like here buddy, you know, when you're not feeling, you know, safe Just wear this and they'll let you know that this scary looking dude is your father as well. So And I don't know if he wears it all the time But I've seen him wear it and it was kind of but now it's just kind of it kind of manifested itself from there Everybody wants a John's shirt and I've made a whole bunch of women, whatever But, you know, because any kind of gave me the foundation and Drupal kind of gave me that the confidence I am a better father. I there was a there was a good time. I didn't My children's mothers wanted to want to mean nothing to do with my kids like they kept me away And and now I'm very much a part of their lives and This past year, I had like this really great moment With my son's grandparents on his mother's side And these are people that I did horrible things to an act of addiction. I mean, I stole from them I treated their daughter like shit. I I did I did really really bad things And I brought them through so much drama and I was actually at North getting my record expunged and And They sat me down. They told me how proud they were of me like and for me that was like, you know I try not to cry. I'm like, oh, yeah, thanks, you know, like out the door But But it's just like, you know, it was a very good moment because these are people I hurt really really bad Really bad and and they told me what proud they were of me, you know, I Have all sorts of confidence. I mean this past year was a big year for me. I switched jobs. I I'm no longer a convicted felon The judge called me the model real Rehabilitation when he signed all the paperwork to have my record expunged and I was like, man, I really fooled him You know, but it it was a good feeling, you know I've come so far, you know In this journey and Drupal and in my recovery life It feels pretty good to be where I am. I I was I tried to the other night I was watching I saw there was the Jersey Shore Reunion show whatever it was. I tried to watch it. I made it about 15 minutes in I was like, man I'm so glad there's no drama in my life anymore and I kind of turned it off I was like, I don't live that way anymore and I couldn't even watch it, you know I don't even know why I thought it was okay to watch, you know, but whatever so You know, and I've had some other big moments, too. I I'm not anonymous in my professional life I don't go to like every sales company like hi, I'm dramatic. I used to rob people for drugs, you know like, you know, it's Anybody that does this, you know, you become friends with some of your clients I mean, I've worked with some clients for years and and There was a moment many years ago that a client he sent me really expensive bottle of whiskey for Christmas It's a thank you and I had not told anybody besides the people I worked with that, you know That I was in recovery and so it was it was it was like one of those moments where I was like I need to say something so, you know, I told them, you know, I've been clean at the time I think like a year and a half and I was like, I can't take this, you know I'm sorry and and I gave it to somebody else, but I thanked them, you know and and Look a lot of the clients, you know I started to talk about this and and there's a good number of the clients that I handle that know that I'm giving the speech Right now know that I am in recovery and and that same client that gave me that whiskey bottle came to me I'm a little over two years ago and he, you know, he texted me and he was like, hey I got a friend and of course I thought it was him because I've hung out with him and he parties like a rock star And and and I was like, okay, what's up, and we're talking and he's like I have a friend I grew up with can you talk to him and I was like, well this you want to change, you know Because so long so many people try to get me clean by pushing me into rehabs and other things and I didn't I was like Yeah, whatever I could I could be a good, you know soldier for a little while But soon it's like, you know, when nobody was looking it was game on but and so I talked to him and and we talked He did all the talking and he was out in Lafayette, California, and I live in Florida So and we you know, we're talking on the phone and I could hear myself in him, you know For many years before he was he was in the tech industry. He was lost He was on the way of being homeless. He what would this pimp all this money? He was all strung out on drugs. It was like it was me all over again And and we talked and we talked and we talked every day For a few months until he got kind of clipped up with NA out there and and and and he just sent me a text the other day He picked up two years, you know, he's been clean for two years so, you know, that's a great feeling when stuff like that happens because Because I'm not ashamed of who I am, you know, I'm not going to like make any excuses for anything I did in the past I did all that stuff, you know, but I I I'm making my men's as I go through life and and You know, some of my family listening and I haven't made any men's to you. Don't worry. You'll get it I'll get you sooner or later, but You know, it's just it's been a really good journey for me and You know, but the reason why I give this talks it really isn't for me or the Drupal community It's for the addict that still suffers There's a lot of people that come to these things and they don't know what to do, you know, they're scared I remember being you, you know, not worrying that, you know, I can't stop using I'd all I want to do is get messed up You know, and my bills are due and they're taking the kids away And I'm getting kicked out of my house and I'm doing Fox whole prayers Please God, you know, why can't I stop using and and you know, nobody was there for me So if you're listening or you're watching this now, that's my phone number You can text me. You don't even have to tell me your name and I will talk to you and help you Because nobody did that for me So, you know, that's all I got. Thank you Questions Yes, Amy June I feel relieved a little bit now I'm kind of the calm and this this whole thing is always just kind of wing it So I just you know in your head, you're gonna say all these things that you never do But I feel kind of good now and I'm glad it's happy hour. So I can watch people drinking I have my face shirt on you know, they can get drunk and Fun stuff like that, but You're well, it's all about chances. I mean, we have this one life and and and I mean People know what it's like to be judged by your past and other things you do and it doesn't feel good You know, I mean people do grow up and they move on and and and you know I was a man child for the first 36 years of my life, you know I should feel like a grown-up for the first time and and and you know I caused a lot of wreckage and I heard there's people all never speak to you because what I did My or even I make amends to them and I'm okay with that now I've made peace with stuff like that and and You know, but I'm never gonna there's a lot of people There's a lot of I have a lot of good friends in the program like good solid dudes and and they're they're very successful, you know and they're in their locations and things like that but you know They couldn't see me for who I really am and they love me and it's okay I can say I love you back and it's not weird or or or strange for another guy to tell another guy that he loves him You know because I do because there's been times on my recovery that like I struggled I had a really bad breakup with my accent during recovery and it was the first time after many years that I like I felt like using again, but I use you know the skills of NA to reach out and be like I'm struggling bad, you know and they were there right there they surrounded and I made it through you know And so I've kind of emulated that even with the people I help train I call my padawans You know, we have a select channel and I make sure that we have a question They're not they'll ask me questions, you know, none of them work at the predecessor We all worked out one of two of them work for hook 42 and another one would work for go overseas and and you know, they are They ask me questions and and I'm there for them So I'll always kind of you know help them and because you know, I saw something and I'm and I still see something in them That's kind of a long-winded response, but I Feel Clayton was there and Elijah coming to us like you know, he's I Filled like the sort of like the mini site that that Webcast was living on all these people are watching. I was sitting upstairs Monitoring the webcast And it was just like really surreal Street It's just amazing and the point really is like Anybody can make it through, you know, and I've always been really open It's like you like about my background and stuff because like I've always found Just to sort of reinforce what you're saying I've done opportunities to help other people, you know, like throughout my journey I didn't get Thanks Any other questions? All right. Thanks everybody