 Welcome to another special edition of the OTP. I am Amy Wells, joined by the one, the only, draft duo. Rhett Bryan is here. Hello. Hello, and Coach Dave McGinnis. Coach Mack is here. Hey, Coach Mack. Hi, Amy Wells. Hi, Rhett Bryan. Hello, Coach Mack. We are still coming to you via Zoom because we are being safe and staying healthy and indoors, but we've got a lot to talk about, and today is a special one, I think, especially to Coach Mack. We're talking linebackers. Yes. Are you guys ready? Absolutely. Do this. Now, Mack, I want to start with you because I think that we need to specify what we're talking about exactly because when you talk about linebackers, you break it down to inside and outside linebackers. However, there is more to evaluating this position specifically than just inside and outside. Explain to me what you're looking for and how you're categorizing players when you're evaluating linebackers. Amy, that's a great question to start with, and for our OT people, I'm going to break it down into subsets like you do in a draft room, and here's what you do. Let's start with the outside linebackers first. If you're talking about outside linebackers, you first have got to differentiate if you're talking about a 3-4 defense or you're talking about a 4-3 defense because an outside linebacker in a 4-3 defense is going to play off the ball. Outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense is going to play up on the line of scrimmage, and then where you get into cross-pollination is with the outside linebackers that are also edge rushers. Those positions, as I said, they cross over quite a bit, and so you have to be able in your scouting process, Amy, to differentiate. What type of guy is this? How does he fit? Is he a first and second down guy on the line of scrimmage? Is he a first and second down guy off the ball? And then if he's off the ball, is he better suited to be on what we call the open side or the split inside or the closed side, which is the tight inside? Those two things make a difference as far as to a player's ability. So there's a lot of subsets within outside linebackers and edge rushers when you start evaluating players coming out of college, because they may not play the same scheme that you want, but if you recognize the regular skills, then there they are. You don't really have to say inside linebackers. The thing that the term that's being used more now is off-the-ball linebackers. So when you talk about off-the-ball linebackers, because so much is played in sub-defense now, Amy, in the National Football League, where you have two off-the-ball linebackers behind the line of scrimmage, you normally play with what is designated as a Mike and a Will. A Mike linebacker usually lines up somewhere in the tackle box. A Will linebacker will be a guy that will flip mainly to the open side. This will be a guy that is a little more adept at coverage. Your Mike linebacker gets things set, can still play the run when you've got a six man in front. So you've got to differentiate there. So on the ball, off the ball, outside linebackers, three, four, four, three, edge rushers. There's a lot of subsets to this position, and that's why I find it so fascinating. Now, Rhett, let's start talking about some of those inside guys, some of those guys who are going to play off the ball. Who are some of the top guys in this class? Well, you're talking inside, there are two guys, and I think both will probably be late first round picks, and one of them is Kenneth Murray from Oklahoma. The other one is Patrick Queen from LSU. Kenneth Murray's probably the top of this class if you're talking about an inside linebacker. Patrick Queen's a guy that did not come along quite as well, but the later that LSU got into their season, and then when they got into big moments and when the national championship game, he was all over the place, affecting plays. Those two are the leaders in the clubhouse when you're talking inside. Mack, is there anybody else who you think is a top level in that inside group? Yeah, absolutely. The explanation that we just had for the OT people, now we're into that conversation here in our draft loop. Where are you going to play Isaiah Simmons? To me, Isaiah Simmons is one of those matchup guys off the ball in first, second, and third down defense, because here's what you can do with this guy. You can rush him, you clearly can, but he's got length, he's got twitch, he's got flexibility. Now, this is a guy, if I'm a defensive coordinator, this would be my dream to have this guy, because he is a matchup answer. You talk about the big tight ends that you're putting on the field now to be able to move out, and they are mismatches with safeties. They're mismatches with most linebackers. This guy can eat them up and also cover that little twitchy back out of the backfield, and then you can still pressure with it. So Isaiah Simmons fits into this category, but again, now we're starting to get into the galaxy of where does he fit, how does he fit? Moveable chess pieces now on defense, Amy, and for our OT people to listen to this. Understand this is a matchup game in the national football league. When you're matching personnel week to week to week, and you're setting game plans, the first thing you look for is how coverage-wise can we take away their most dangerous threat? This guy helps you do that. Rhett, are there any other guys who might not be that top echelon of player, but can still be highly productive at the next level at this position? One of those would be Josh Uchi from Michigan. He did not play a lot in his career up through about 2019, and then last season saw some more moments on the field and made the best of it when he was. He's had some injury issues. He did not do anything at the combine because of an injury he had. He has rushed the passer outside, but he has also played inside in that part of it and rushing from the middle. He may not be an outside linebacker pass rusher in this. He may be more in this inside category, but I think if a guy like him can get healthy and get more reps and snaps under his belt in a developmental thing, I think down the road could be a decent pick in this thing. He'll be a guy that would be a late-second, probably third-round pick if I had to guess. Mac, what about you? Any guys that can develop to being super effective at the next level? Zach Bond out of Wisconsin is a guy that did rush a lot. He has tremendous production rushing the ball, but when you start to look at him physically, he's 602.3, 238 pounds. But what he can do, he's very aware in space. He's got good zone concepts he can cover. He was their versatile piece. He was their piece that they moved around everywhere in Wisconsin. I like Zach Bond as a football player. I don't know whether somebody will find a niche for him. I've got him slated still-wise, probably in the middle or the end of the second round. There's a kid at Appalachian State named Akeem Davis-Gather, 601.4, 224 pounds. This is a will linebacker to me. This is a guy that will be an open side off-the-ball linebacker. There's a player at Mississippi State that's had some issues, but is a physical phenom. Now, you've got a lot of issues to work through with this guy. He missed the Music City Bowl because he just had a little minor altercation with his quarterback, punched him in the face. But Willie Gay Jr. at Mississippi State, 601.1, 243.446, all the physical drills just blew the combine away. You've got to decide once you get all the issues out, does he fit into what we do? And then another guy from West Texas that I've got my eye on, because I call my guys out there in Lubbock and talk about this guy, is Jordan Brooks from Texas Tech. This kid just makes tackles. He just makes tackles. He's six foot, 240 pounds, but he runs 454. And look, they don't play much defense in the Big 12. We all know that. But this guy was very, very, very productive at Texas Tech. When I'm watching linebackers on tape, the first thing I look at is their GPS, because a linebacker has to be able to find the football. Jordan Brooks from Texas Tech can find the ball. All right, I want to switch over to some of the guys on the outside. And Mac, I want to do another terminology clear up here for the OT people. It seems that sometimes the line is blurred between an outside linebacker and an edge rusher. We use a lot of these terms. Don't always clarify what we're talking about. So for the OT people, what is the difference or is there a difference? Well, yeah, an outside linebacker, again, we're talking about three forward. Now we're talking about guys that are on the line to scrimmage. An outside linebacker in the national football league on the scrimmage. There'll be what Mike Vrable was when he had all those productive years in New England. Big, strong, can set the edge. Setting the edge is important, because when you're talking about first and second down defense and you want to get people into third and long situations where you can earn the right to rush the passer, you've got to be able to win first and second down. And winning the run game in first and second down, when you talk about run defense, you're always talking about setting an edge, building a wall, and squeezing everything back to the middle. And these guys are guys, when we're talking about outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense, they need to do that. If you're a 4-3 defense, most of the time, your defensive ends are the people that are setting the edge. That's why you will see so many players at the combine, even though they've been 4-3 defensive ends in college, they will put them through outside linebacker drills to see if they've got the capability of standing up. And the differentiation, Amy, we're talking about playing from a 3-point stance or playing from a 2-point stance. A 3-point stance is when you've got one hand on the ground. A 2-point stance is when you've got no hands on the ground and you're standing on two feet. So they will put them through drills like that. So there's a differentiation here. And sometimes you have to decide as a coach and as you, the general manager, making the draft pitch, you draft your coach's ability to be able to teach and transform players. Can we do that with this player at this position? Now, Rhett, a name that we've heard a lot is Chase Young. What is it about him that makes him so impressive? Explosive, physical, gets to the quarterback. He mentioned Mike Grable, who is the all-time SAC leader at Ohio State with 36 SACs. Well, the guy that's number two on that list, Chase Young, 30 and a half SACs, had what, 16 and a half last year, multiple award winner in football, huge presence, had to account for him if you're in offense. And he is a guy that can be an instant difference maker in the NFL level. That's why he'll be a top five pick in this draft. The other one that I really like is Kalevan Chase on from LSU. And when you talk about physical, powerful, disruptor, this guy will show you that on film, he was a big part of them on defense as to why they won the national championship. He may have a chance to get even better at the next level because he wasn't always used as a pass rusher in this thing. I think that's probably where he's best suited to play, but wherever they put him in experimentally on that defense, he did well. Kalevan Chase on, Chase Young, those are the two. And I would go back to Isaiah Simmons because where do you play him? He has such athletic skills and size and length. He is a chess piece difference maker, as Coach Mack alluded to. He might be in that top of that tier as well if you decide to go that route. Coach Mack, are there other players? Give me one or two names of guys who maybe showed their capabilities or their versatility that moved themselves up draft boards at the combine. Well, I think the next guy, and I think Rhett is 100% right because to me, you talk about Chase Young, I mean, that'll be a first round pick. Kalevan Chase on, I believe, is still a developing player. He's got tremendous edge quickness. He can still put on strength, but he has got first round tout. He really does. When you talk to people down there, they just rave about his leadership ability. So this is a guy that I believe is a first round talent. The next guy that falls into that category is Yator Gross Matos out of Penn State. Okay, Yator Gross Matos is 6'5", 266 pounds. The guy's got 82 and a quarter inch wingspan. He's long, he's long, he's athletic. And I think this is where you're gonna have to dig a little deeper. To me, this guy may not be a first round player, but to me he's definitely in a top 50-55 pick because of his athletic ability and what you're gonna be able to do with him. The name, a lot of people, the OT people are gonna hear about is AJ Eponessa from Iowa. But AJ Eponessa falls back into that category the way we started this with your questions to differentiate between these guys. Now he's had his hand on the ground the entire time. He's not a flexible Gumby Edge rusher, but he is a power rusher. That's got tremendous, tremendous hand work. He's very powerful. He can find the football, very, very productive football player. He's not a guy you're gonna stand up and use as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 and expect him to move and drop in space, but you're gonna get a lot of disruption out of this guy across the defensive front. So those two names for people to keep in mind, Yator Gross Matos from Penn State and AJ Eponessa from Iowa that are two completely different people. Are there some guys that we may not be hearing a lot about right now, but have the potential for some improvement at the next level? Yeah, there's a couple of guys that I would look at in that frame of things. And I would start with, I mentioned Josh Uchi of Michigan, whether he's inside or out, he's a guy that could improve for sure. Curtis Weaver from Boise State is an interesting prospect. Terrell Lewis from Alabama will be a second round pick somewhere in there who has been injured quite a bit, but is a big physical player that could probably do well at the next level. Jonathan Greenard from Florida, that is one that you should keep your eye on as well as Daryl Taylor from the University of Tennessee. Both of those guys are names that might sneak up on somebody. Mac, any additional names? Maybe one or two? Amy, you know I have names. I know you do, that's why I limited you to one or two. I know you've got a whole notebook full of information. Let's go Bradley and I out of Utah. You're a very, very, very, very productive player. Another Florida player, Jabari Zaniga, was a very, very accomplished player at the University of Florida. 6033, 264 pounds, ran 464. He's got the requisite athletic skills and then I'm gonna give you one more. You said two, so I'll give you three. The other guy to keep an eye on is Julian Okwara from Notre Dame, all right? There's another edge guy for the OT people to know when you're talking with your friends with a lot of distance in between you. If you wanna tell him, here's a guy, third or fourth round, look for Julian Okwara from Notre Dame. All right, Rhett, here's your last person, a name that you think that Titans fans need to know. In the later rounds, a guy I think they should know and I really like is DJ Wannum from South Carolina, 65258 has an enormous wingspan, arms 34 1.8 inches long. He's a guy that had a really nice combine and it could be a good developmental player in terms of trying to help this Titans defense that I think John Robinson might have a beat on. He would be somebody I would mention. Coach Mack, you're one player that you think Titans fans should know. Here's a guy that I'm gonna say something about is gonna jump up on people. Derek Tusca from North Dakota State. All right, let's look at this guy. We're down around fifth and sixth round now, 6044-251, brand 479, but you talk about production on the football field and North Dakota State plays really good football in that division. They're an excellent football team. Keep your eye and keep your ears out for that name. Derek Tusca, T-U-S-Z-K-A. All right, well you guys, a lot of good information in today's podcast. Coach Mack, thank you for breaking everything down. Rhett, Brian, the expert on all these players. You guys have been great and the draft is quickly approaching. It's coming up quick, Amy. Great being with you. It absolutely is. It's great to be with the both of you. The closer we get to it, the more excited I get. Love the draft. Absolutely, as we all do, Rhett. For Rhett, Brian and Coach Mack, I'm Amy Wells. Thank you for listening to the OTP.