 From Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is SiliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE here at the Cloud Foundry Summit in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts, even if it is a little bit of rain, sleet and snow. At least the wind isn't whipping like it was for the Boston Marathon earlier this week. It's the second time that we've had the Cube at this program. It's my third time bringing it in. Really excited to dig in with some of the thought leaders, the users, really talking about digital transformation. To help me kick it off is a friend of theCUBE, someone I've known for many years in the communities and various technologies. Lauren Cooney, who's now the CEO of Spark Labs. Lauren, great to see you again, and thanks so much for joining us. Definitely. Gosh, you were on theCUBE all week last week, and now you're here again. I was on theCUBE last week. Well, I've got a different host now. I mean, come on. I had to do it with you still. Yeah, John Furrier's a little disappointed he wasn't here. John and I always said, we do like the open source tour. And that's where I got to know you around some of the open networking stuff years ago. All the way back to Open Daylight. Oh boy, yeah, ODL. Those were the days. So those of us that have been around, we've got some of the scars. I love some of the Twitter conversations during the keynote here leading up to, it's like the battle royale. It's like the technologies that have won and the technologies that have died, and it's, is it Kubernetes versus Cloud Foundry? Has serverless and Amazon's ascent just blown away all of things altogether? So before we get into all of these pieces, Lauren, what are you doing these days and what brings you to this show? So I'm now a CEO. I'm CEO of Spark Labs, and that is a consulting company that helps companies basically build product and bring it to market faster or innovate faster or drive new revenue channels and business models to market. I have been doing this at large companies for a while and I think it's important that across a spectrum from startups to enterprise, folks understand the new models and methodology they can do with the advanced technology out there to bring things to market in a way that's relevant, important, and captures their audience. Yeah, so I've been watching Cloud Foundry since the early days, remember, it started inside of VMware, got spun out, it's open source foundation, Pivotal of course is the main company most people think of. They filed an S1, some interesting things reading through those numbers, but it's a sizable ecosystem and what I like what they've done here at the show, Abbey yesterday and Chip today, getting customers, getting a broad section of the ecosystem, what are the cool tools that they're building, how is that digital transformation? It's not a buzzword, so everything from big old insurance companies, the government doing things to cooler younger companies like Zipcar and how they're doing really weird things there. So what's your take on the show so far, this ecosystem, and let's get into it from there? Well, I'm a huge fan of Abbey and Chip and the organization as a whole, I just think you've got some really smart people there and very strategic as well. I think what you want to look at is really the numbers of partners, so the Foundry members, and also the numbers of end users and the quality of those end users. For example, you had T-Mobile on stage and they have 1,700 users of Cloud Foundry that are actually building across that in their own company. So that right there is a pretty good number for one company. Yeah, I love that, the T-Mobile, they have 1,700 developers and they only have 10 operators that kind of keep that whole stack up and running, so that's a nice, somebody said 170 to one is a nice mix there. I think it's great and I think that, folks that actually are seeing this in production, it is enterprise ready, it's one of the more mature products that I see out there that people are using today and it works, right? You don't have to cobble things together, it's pretty seamless for the most part. Yeah, one of the, when you look at, there's been a lot of stats thrown out, as you said, there's a lot of users here. 40% of the foundation, according to Abbey's numbers are, the Foundation members are users themselves, which is great to see them participating. It's that wave of open source we've been talking about for many years, is it's not just using, but we're contributing to it. You're voting with your code, not just your dollars, and there's a whole lot of reasons why companies are doing that. Open source is really table stakes these days for so many companies to get involved. I think it is, and I think that part of that is, it's important, Abbey was talking this morning at this pancake breakfast about how they really take a look at their contributors and then how to up level them to their committers in particular. So I think really it's a bar of quality that goes into that code as well. And just like you said, code talks. Yeah, so when you look at, okay, are these mostly just big old enterprise companies? When you look at the mix of what people are using, one of the, a survey that went out said 48% of people are using multicloud. I think that number is probably understated when you go with customers. There is a weight towards more private cloud. And then with 62% of people are using private cloud, as opposed to when I think about Kubernetes, Kubernetes tends to be a little bit more starting in the public clouds and moving between public clouds. And then there's lots of discussions. We saw Google on stage. We saw Microsoft on stage talking about Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes going great together. What's your take on that? Is it just kind of talking head noise out there that, well, Kubernetes is kind of this wave and it kind of took away from Cloud Foundry. What do you hear from the users? I feel like we're talking about, kids in middle school that have, something against each other or something along those lines that the community is actually making up more than the actual communities that are building. So Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes actually are complimentary. I said something on Twitter this morning about them they don't compete, get it and move forward. You really need the tools there and the right tools for actually, building those applications for your platform. And I think that whereas they're both platforms, there are tools that can be enabled on Cloud Foundry for situations that developers and companies need. It's not necessarily a, it's not a tip for a tat. It's two things running side by side that work with each other. Yeah, and Lauren, I feel like every year it's a new story. 2014, I was at the first Cloud Foundry summit and Crosstown in San Francisco, the first Docker con was going on. And oh my gosh, containers are going to take over everything and therefore we don't need that portability and wonderful thing that Cloud Foundry does. Of course, two days later, it was Andrew Clay Schaefer and James Waters were like hugging Solomon Hikes and saying, we're going to work closely with Docker. There's a whole track on containers and serverless at this show. So we always spend too much time, oh this point new cool technology kills everything before. In my experience, IT, especially enterprise IT, is very much additive. We need to understand what we can get rid of, but it doesn't mean that, okay, let's burn everything down to the ground and start over. No, I think that's actually, I think it's funny you mentioned that because when you look at these offerings, these solutions, that's what they are. They're not piecemeal, they're solutions. They're a coupling of individual components together to create something more awesome for the users. Yeah, so really what we care about, I go back to Abby's slide at the beginning, it's the intersection of interoperability, innovation and velocity. This space, it's always about faster, faster, faster. The promise of Paz, something we've been talking about for a long time, we don't talk even Paz so much anymore, but the platform, how do we have that development environment? What do you hear from users? Are they happy with what they have today? Where are we on the maturity cycle of these technologies? Paz is always an interesting topic. I think it's heavily overhyped often. I don't even see people really using that term as much anymore and I think that really what you've got is a marketing engine funneling that term for better or worse and what you really need to look at is the community that's here. The solutions that are here, the folks that are showing up, like Susei showed up and has this great new solution that actually kind of pulls Kubernetes and Cloud Foundry together. It's really not about just the product stuff anymore. Yeah, absolutely. So there are some comparisons though. I look, this show's grown to about 1,500 people. It's a nice size show. A lot of people that are still contributing to code, lots of different projects involved. The Cloud Foundry Foundation, which big shout out to them, they're the ones that helped bring us to this show, they're part of the Linux Foundation. Linux Foundation actually also does the CNCF which does the KubeCon shows. KubeCon show in Austin was about 7,000 people growing. You're going to be at the Copenhagen show. So there is lots of cross-pollination. It's not a zero sum game. It's not binary in this world but there are pieces that are getting more attention than others. I'm excited to get in through this more. Want to give you any last final thoughts as to cool things you're seeing, things that you want to investigate more or, you know, the things that people are looking for. Definitely, definitely the new application, cloud application platform I think it is that brings the Kubernetes and Cloud Foundry together. That's what I'm going to be looking at. Okay, and then that was Susei who I believe made that announcement. Definitely, I think that for me is very cool. I believe it was like the .gov platform or something that came out. I think that is just phenomenal that they pulled that together. Cloud.gov certification. John Furrier, I'm sure is going to be watching. You know, the federal space, the government space is so hugely hot. We've been covering Amazon's positioning in that space. Et cetera, Amazon, they're a part of the Cloud Foundry Foundation. They're a sponsor here. They're not up on the keynote stage. When you hear, say, the people at Pivotal, they tend to skew a little bit more towards Google and maybe a little bit Microsoft. Amazon's a beast. Amazon is the beast out in this marketplace. But federal government, there's been a lot of things happening in the courts and battling over who's going to win some of these huge deals. Amazon has a huge stronghold here, but government is a big complex, multi-faceted organization. So yeah, absolutely. That was one that caught me. All the FedRAMP support and all those things are very. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal for the users too and the developers that have been waiting to build on something that actually works, I believe. Okay, so yeah, lots of Kubernetes already. I'm going to be talking a startup that you were talking to me about that's in the serverless space in Cloud Foundry. Got a bunch of users on, so really excited to get through. Lauren Cooney, thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you at many more events throughout the year. And thanks to our audience and thanks to the Cloud Foundry Foundation, once again, for helping bring theCUBE to this event. We've got a full day of interviews. I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE.