 With the clock ticking towards 2023's general election, palpable fear, anxiety and tension has enveloped Nigerians, particularly those who desire a new set of visionary leaders different from those that dominated the political sin since 1999. The atmosphere is already charged and discussions on politics have suddenly become the preoccupation of majority of Nigerians. Many especially the youths continue to show willingness and preparedness to participate actively in the electoral process like never before. However, despite these apparent enthusiasm, there are still concerns that the electoral umpire, the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, may not be able to deliver free fare and credible elections come 2023. Well, joining us to discuss this and more is Mr. Katch on Anujuhi, the Special Advisor to Peter R.B. on Public Affairs, Iman Alonwuka, who's a broadcast journalist, Opponaba Incultaria, a civil rights advocate, and GDO Logo, who's a legal practitioner. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be in Nigeria. Opponaba, I'm going to start with you. We talk about good governance. We're pushing for good governance. We want good leadership, but what is the idea that we have of good governance in Nigeria, knowing our antecedents, where we've come from? Because I'm asking because we see a lot of people say, oh, the former government was better than this. I mean, even though we thought that was bad, it kind of is better right now. So again, we seem to be slaves of the past. So what do you think the idea of good governance in Nigeria actually is? Well, when you say governance, governance is all about the pattern of governance. And if you say good governance, you're actually making reference to a pattern of governance that positively impacts on Nigeria, those you govern. As a government, you have a social responsibility, a social contract with the government. There are basic facilities that you must provide. Of course, in Nigeria, we say the principle rule of the government is to provide lives and to protect lives and property, social security in the country. These are the principles. But of course, you have other rules that you could refer to as auxiliary rules that are equally very important, quite crucial. You're talking about provision of amenities such as fire and water. You're talking about creating a conducive environment for businesses to try and a whole lot of that. But unfortunately, in Nigeria, there is a vast understanding of what government is all about. And that is simply because you have people with distorted perception of life, accidentally discharged onto the political surface. People who have a misunderstanding of what government is all about, those who believe that while you're in government, you're there to feather or line your pockets. So they go in there to please the judge withdraw. Growing up as a kid, just for example, you find somebody who, from 1999 to today, has never worked in any private company before, has never done any private business. He's been in office from 1999 to today. And without any compulsion, without any repulsion, such a person swarms the fruits of his crime, they've gotten well. And the society has brought such a person. The person becomes a world model. So when you, I would be a step beyond that one. You see, it comes across a very path, even in the educational sector, you have somebody, a parent who will tell his son, no matter what it takes. And that is the beginning, no matter what it takes. All I know is I want you to graduate. Don't come back to me to tell me that you failed because you received, to give the lecturer money, whatever it costs you. And those are the same characters that will become the governors, the ministers, and the presidents tomorrow. And you cannot be quit what you don't have. So if you don't have what it takes to be a good leader, of course, definitely when you get into office, you're going to be quit that decade that it's already new. You have a lot of people in the national assembly, if I can even say the national assembly, not this particular one, but even before this one, where the former president of the country, Lucifer Apache, they were all votes. The national assembly members would test it, and he said, okay, no problem. If you want an apology, I'm going to render that apology, but after disclosing the names of those I referred to as votes. And that matter was set under the cabinet. A former AIG on the floor of the Senate expressed shock, shock. He was there to see those, of course, who said that they were supposed to be in jail, elected as senators. And the sentient that got the floor of the House raised the same issue. They asked him to apologize. He said he was not going to apologize. He was going to come to the floor of the House the next day with the file. That matter was set under the cabinet. And these are the same characters that are the governor. These are the same characters that are the legislators. These are the same characters that you will admit. You have somebody who has lots of fraudulent cases against an INEC who claims he's going to contest. If he wins, thank God for the big bigger, the former is going to win. If he has the bigger, you can reap yourself into office. If such a character wins, he becomes the governor. He becomes the president. And if he's supposed to be a role model, now, what are you teaching the younger ones? So that's why they didn't want to understand what Godness is all about. So then Godness is all about stealing money, planting your wealth in fruits of your crime without any form of punishment within punitive. And that is why we ask where we are today. Okay. Thank you very much. Let me come to you, Baista. It's very interesting to look at things from the perspective of Upanabok. But then it's interesting because I asked the question at the beginning, what is our idea of good governance? Because, like I said, we have had all different kinds of government. And half the time we asked these people to leave because they didn't fulfill their promises or the government, the leadership, the qualities that they seem to possess do not necessarily fit what we want. So again, I'm going to push this. Have we as a country ever experienced good governance, whether it be under a military administration or civilian role, have we ever as a country experienced good governance? And how can we go back to attain that if there be any? Definitely. Immediately after our political independence in 1960, we became, you know, a republic in 1963. And the economy of the first republic was quite buoyant. But at that point in time, we relied on agro-economy, we relied on political gas. Despite the civil war, even in the early 70s, General Gouwan retired who was the military head of state, came out to announce the war. And the problem of Nigeria was not having many, but knowing what to do with the money. And if you recall, that was the time when there was an attempt to reform the civil service structure in Nigeria. And though there were recommendations given, the one that attracted the stakeholders was to award the Udoji, the Udoji award, you know, and money started flying. And that was about the time Ostentatious living, you know, came into the civil service and into governance, generally speaking. And there was the time we had our oil bomb. So you find out that when Nigeria set out as a politically independent nation, I mean, we were doing well until gross mismanagement came in massively to question the fact that should we even have been allowed by the colonialists to handle our resources. And it is because we have not connected to the concept of good governance. And let me express what President Joe Biden said at the recent U.S.-Africa leader summit. You know, Joe Biden, in his closing remarks, said that Africa's economic transition depends on good government. And when you talk about good government, Mr. Padigo mentioned something that is central, and you can find that in section 14 of section two of the Nigerian Constitution in 1919 as amended, that said that the security and the welfare of the people shall be the primary focus of government. So, you know, Joe Biden said that the future of this continent, particularly Nigeria, depends on good government, healthy populations, reliable and affordable energy, you know, and this is what we attract investors into the nation. And security is very important. But today, how many global investors we want to come and risk their resources to invest in Nigeria? We have been doing a blame trading on insecurity. You know, correctional facilities are tied. They are simply trying to kidnap the president and commander-in-chief of the armed forces. And when you look at the economy, if you read section 15 of the Nigerian Constitution in 1919 as amended, it says that our resources should be harnessed in a way that we have a self-reliant economy, that we provide maximum happiness for the people, you know, that wealth is not constantly in the hands of you. You can go and read more up to section 18. And can we claim to have that? Recently, I was shocked that Nigeria lost about $2 billion to all teams. So, when you talk about good government, there must be security for the people. There must be wealthier. I won't talk about wealthier. There must be sound education for the citizenry. There must be power, energy for the industrialists. The tax regime must be enabling, not disabling. The social fabric of the society must be built on the concept of unity. And I mean, can you try to explain to me why in the nation that has the largest deposit of broken gas in Africa has, if I were, 33 million of our citizens within the multi-faceted poverty bracket? So, you find that rather than maximizing the poverty resources God has given to us, that we have mismanaged. And what is good governance? Good governance is creating common wealth or common good. And we can mention some nations that have achieved that. So, by and large, considering where we are today is such a very pitiful condition that it's best imagined than experienced. And for those who are experiencing it, that's why the union is so wide that we seek, you know, a resourceful leadership of this nation. So, Nigeria was a very great nation. There was a time when there used to be three course meals in the universities where you could have only two or three students to a room. You know, we arrived in the university there before you graduate. Job opportunities are brought to you. And of course, attached with very cool of your choice. You see, there used to be a time when foreign money came to Nigeria for medical treatment. There used to be a time when foreign lecturers came to Nigeria to lecture. You see, there used to be a time when things were rosy, you know, I mean, but those were in the past now. But for some of us, we look forward to a new narrative of this nation. And that's why it's so important now that as we are approaching the elections, we are setting the agenda for good governance. And may I echo that good governance is the creation of common wealth or common good. And if you want to look at countries that have achieved that, you can go and look at Sweden, you can look at Iceland, you can look at Singapore, you can look at UAE, you can look at America. And let me answer my submissions right now on this concept of health. I mean, I'm looking forward to when the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom will come to Nigeria for medical treatment. I'm looking forward to a time when elections will be coming up in the UK and the politicians come to Nigeria to hold their meetings. You see, and these are the same terms that have shown that rather than grow as a nation, we have not since our since our over 60 years of political independence. Okay. So we are far away from good governance. That is not to say that we cannot retrace our steps. And you know, right now, Nigeria has nothing less than 40 mineral resources that can make us prosper in overflowing abundance if we can only have reasonable leadership. All right. Let me go to catch. We're setting the pace for this conversation by going back for us to be able to go forward. Now, I'm curious as to why it seems like the good governance seems to elude us now and again, even when politicians at the polls wax lyrical and tell us that they will be able to do all sorts of things, even when it's not within their reach. And then once they get into office, the story changes and then it's a totally different song and dance. I'm wondering for all of the things that the barista has listed, these things are right here with us. It's not that, you know, they're far fetched. We were blessed. We're a blessed country if we're blessed with natural resources. And I'm guessing they were also blessed with people who have leadership skills, who are smart, industrious, technocrats. But why has good leadership seemingly continuously eluded us? Well, it's a very simple question. First, we need to be a nation. We're not yet a nation. And so you need to ask yourself, why are we not yet a nation? Today, the current government actually encourages ethnic cleansing. As I speak to you, under the current administration, we have been Nigerians living in IDP camps, yet in their own homelands, foreigners are living there. And don't forget this. And this has been done under a man who said he will come and become president of Nigeria. Now, why do I say that? And everybody keeps quiet. And most people are very afraid to even speak up. And that was why I was very encouraged when one of the candidates visited the IDP camps. When he came back, some of those who were actually responsible for conniving with Tabitha Polaku to commit these ethnic cleansings actually were saying openly that people should not vote for whoever they are going to attack the bandits. Tabitha Polaku is a West Africa wild Fulani vigilante organization. It is responsible for the violent actions you see across Nigeria. In which right now what they are doing is a slow motion war using ethnic cleansing to gain ancestral land so as to be able to re-settle foreigners across Nigerian villages and ancestral lands. But the owners of those lands, as I speak to you, are in IDP camps. And we keep quiet. Other candidates refuse even to visit those IDP camps so that they do know and care the role of those who are responsible for such operations. Those are the questions we must ask ourselves. But do these candidates necessarily have to visit IDP camps to know the state of things? I mean, I'm sure that this is not news. We have information about these IDP camps spread across the country. We even have some in Edo state. The information is out there. It's not hidden per se. I understand when you say your candidate went there to understand what's happening. But then we have that information. What are we doing with the information as opposed to weeping up sentiments? That's what I'm looking at. It is not weeping up sentiment when you speak the truth about these problems. Now I say it, somebody could even be afraid to even mention it. Now that is the nation building. Why are we Nigerians afraid to speak up when issues like this are on? Why should we have IDPs when Nigeria is not at war? Why are some people keeping quiet and shying away from addressing such things like this? Why do you shy away from speaking when Nigerians are displaced? Then you have no right to ask why is the country going bad. Speak up if you see something wrong with Nigerians. Don't keep quiet because this is not happening to somebody from your village. This is what I am saying. Let all of us be for each order. Let all of us speak up when you see Nigerians are in problem. Don't keep quiet and then say, no, is there, we've seen it. What is it proper that international terrorists should come to Nigeria and commit ethnic clizzes? No, it's not proper. Why when I raise it up you say, oh, is there, it's not there everywhere. It is not normal. You must speak up for it. You are journalists. Attack the bad things you've seen. Don't keep quiet and say it. Like I said before, like I said before, we all know that Nigeria is experiencing terrorism on every side. They're uprisings in the southeast. I mean, all kinds of killings. It's not news. But what are we doing about it? I mean, the people in these camps are crying. Northern Elders Forum have come out time and time again to say, Mr. President has abandoned these people. We've seen governors speak on this issue. The better state governor is not left out. So again, what I meant is that it's not necessarily news. But then let's talk about solutions as opposed to pointing fingers. Yes, you work for a political politician. How do we deal with this issue? It is you trying to say it is not new. It is new. It is not normal. It's never happened before in this country. Agreed. It's not normal. So what do we do? Speak up against it. Raise your voice against it. Don't say it's okay. Don't say it's in this state. It's in that state. And so you don't run away from it. We must raise our voices when you see something bad. How could we keep quiet and we actually look at the stories about him. They want him out. Have you asked yourself why? Who are those people targeting them? targeting the ironing chairman? Who are these people? Why are we keeping quiet? Why did we keep quiet two months ago when some people actually intended to plot a coup and use violence to disturb the democracy? When we keep quiet as citizens, then we have no right to complain when things go wrong. And that I mean raise your voice. It is there are people raising their voices that some of this evil are stopped. But if you do not raise your voice when you see something bad and you start asking how do we resolve it? No. The reason God gave you mouth as a woman is should anybody beat you at night? Raise your voice. That is how people in the village and neighborhood will hear you and come and help you. We should not keep our voices low when things go wrong in any part of the country. So as you're asking right now why are we here? We are here because people condone it. We're here because people keep quiet. We're here because people think it's all right for some people to suffer and as far as it's done we're suffering. Let us now look at what the youth are doing. Support the youth. The youth right now are out of frustration seeking to take back their country. As far as I'm concerned that's where I am. And anybody who means well for this country should support the youth to get back their country and let us start from there. Okay. All right. Talking about young people now. I mean literally the conversation has shifted to your side. But then let's start with the fact that you're a journalist and I'm sure that before you became a journalist you probably were not that interested in politics but you must have felt something from your parents saying oh this country is hard, this country is bad, this person did that. And then here we are again still singing the same song from when you were younger. And with what happened on October 2020 and the tragic tree since 2015 are we part of the problem? So the first thing first is I wasn't very interested even as a journalist. I wasn't interested in politics. I would rather cover a human interest story and just be done with it and go home and sleep. Don't watch political news. I don't have any interest in it. But I kept on this program some time ago and I caught a fire and I listened. I got a PBC just two days ago. Congratulations. So I'm going to vote. After I vote I go over the elections. That's what I'm going to do because I found out that you see we can't keep complaining without taking any action. We can't keep complaining without taking any action. You're just going around in a cycle. Now the thing about good governance, good governance to me is delivery. Delivery of your promises. Delivery of what you say. And you see politicians are very vocal when it comes to elections, when it comes to campaigns. So they are so vocal, they have voices that you need to hear their voices when they hold their mics and they are shouting and screaming, shouting down their own agenda. They all have a strategy. Let's be honest with ourselves. They want to always ride on the campaign, ride on the trend to get to us, to get to everybody. And I need to tell Nigerians one thing. Everybody needs to do their own due diligence and investigate the person that you have, that you think is the right person to be voted for. Investigate. Run your own investigations. Find out what the person has done before. Secrets, you see, before the apparel to the elections, they always, you know, bring in these S-parts, PRS-parts, fine-tune their profile, do everything that they need to do. But if you go on the internet and research, you find the information there. Find out what these people and find the person that is the best. Find the person that has that ability to deliver, not the one that comes to say. You see, their voice are very loud when it comes to elections, when it comes to campaign season. They tell you to shout, they tell you to scream. They raise their voice very high for you, push you, give you a kind of fire inside of you. But they are selling an agenda to you. You have to be wary of such persons. Understand that you are the soul, the reason why they are pushing this agenda. But every politician does have an agenda. Yeah, yeah, everybody has an agenda. But you see the truth so that you don't be misled, so that you don't just follow a bandwagon of persons. You need to have your own mind, you need to think for yourself. Don't let them do the thinking for you. So, everybody, right now in Nigeria, nobody can sit on the fence. Are you a journalist? You can't sit on the fence. You can't tell me you're neutral. You can be professional, alright. Quite alright, fine. Be professional. I'm neutral. No, be professional, but you can't be neutral. Neutral. You must vote. Why? Because it's affecting you right now. And it's still going to affect you on the long run. Generations are tied to you. Generations are tied to me. Millions of persons are going to come out through me. And whatever decision I take right now affects millions of persons to come. And if I take the wrong step right now, it's going to affect more people. And I think Nigeria's have to start taking it that direction. We'll take a quick break. I like the fire that's in the room right now. We'll take a quick break when we come back. We're still talking about good governance. How can we as a country attain good governance? Even as we're getting ready for election season. Stay with us. Still talking good governance and the need for us to push for it. While we get ready for the 2023 elections, we still have in the studio Gido Logo, Opunabo, Inco, Taya, Katch, Onenuju, and Emeka. Before we went on that break, we were laying the foundation as to why we're where we are today. But I want to go back to you, Opunabo. Let's talk about inclusive leadership. Now, just as you've all said, politicians wax lyrical, but when they get into office, they don't do the right thing. Followers, we're here to obviously make sure that there's some form of accountability. But are we playing our roles to also make sure that these people are accountable to us? Or what exactly is our problem? Talking of playing our roles, that's exactly what we're doing, even as we are talking on air right now. Because what we are doing is actually an appraisal of a system that has actually failed. Miriam, I must tell you that we are about to call the morass of leadership vacuum. You know, and that's why I don't believe in manifestos. Manifestos, yes, to me, they are more or less like desiderata and not synchronous. Because I could get somebody to alter a wonderful manifesto that could even move the people of Emeka, that could even move the American president. But the truth about it is that at the end of the day, if the candidate himself never even went to that manifesto, each time he went, he goes and stopped it. Then somebody tells him what to say. So policy is more or less like a gravy drink to Nigeria, you know. It's like a shot cut. That is like all kinds of harassment. And if we want to have good leaders that are going to be there in the image of Nigeria, then we must look at the antecedent. Unfortunately, our decisions are informed and planned on nepotism and sentiment. And that is where we are today. That is the vein of our country and the leadership. But if we now look at the antecedent of most of these people that have come out to contest for some of these offices, we are not definitely going to vote for them because they're bad guys' things. I can tell you that. But because Nigeria's are also important, finance has also been big for now. And that's why I tell Nigeria, some might disagree with me. What I say to Nigeria is, collect this money but vote your conscience. Satisfaction has to tell you there is no way you can collect it. Once you collect the money, you become a completed fellow. I strongly disagree. Collect this money but vote your conscience because for another four years, especially in Nigeria where it is difficult to impeach and remove a governor or a president of that four years or while it is in office, for another four to eight years, you have sold everything, including yourself, for a measure for it. And what will that amount to? The cataclysmic leadership we are having right now in this country has to speak right now. Where you have a president that has cost us them back on a long, sudden and a lot of inertia is not bothered about what is going on in this country. So if we have to get somebody that will come and view us out of this mountain of despair, that will move us from the fatigue of despair to the buoyancy of hope, somebody under with bright stars, springtime will be born in this country. We must go to the antecedents of that person. Fortunately, all the candidates, former candidates today have antecedents. They didn't offer that one point in time or the other. So let us look for the one without sending them. Let us because it's like rain. When it's going to rain, nobody will respect. Let us look for that person that will believe to go in there and throw things around. Because definitely, Nigeria's are desponding and unfortunately, we are heading slowly, but steadily, I mean, to prevent the food which anarchy are the result of cataclysmic leadership. So the antecedents, I'm not the person, the antecedents of this candidate must be given priority. If we have to cast our vote in the first commentary on that, for us to have good votes. Mr. Ndujoo talked about inclusivity. He talked about the ethnic differences and the fact that a loss of Nigerians are tight-lipped about speaking truth to power. But then the pastor of the Trinity House, Itwai Godalo, was recently speaking about good governance and he talked about inclusivity and he said that this is one of the things that we need to be able to help Nigeria have good governance because we're a diverse nation. What role do you think that inclusivity will play at this point? And we're looking at Nigeria in 2023, getting ready for the elections. How will it help for whoever emerges or sits on that seat come later this year? The motto of Nigeria has amplified the power of inclusivity. It saves unity and creates peace and progress. And where there is no unity and the sense of equity and judgment that keeps unity running, then there won't be faith in the nation. And when you don't have patriotism, you begin to experience agitation like we are having across the country right now. And what results from that is that a peace of the nation is dislodged, apart from the external forces that have been brought into Nigeria to terrorize us. And where there is unity and peace, there cannot be progress. Absolutely, it doesn't matter the kind of resources you have. You know, I did a study on the quality of life, which is the essence of good governance to promote the quality of life. And number one top country for quality of life in 2022 is Switzerland, about 195.6% rating. And you talk about China. Do you know that between 2020 and 2021, China and the United States becoming the wealthiest nation in the world. In fact, China is discussing prosperity, not poverty, because China has enthroned prosperity in that region. About 90% of the citizens are proof of the government. I think about 1.3 billion half assets to health, insurance, and the care for the elders and things like that. That's what we're talking about. As I speak to you now, I'm running on generational. You see, apart from the noise pollution because you are running generational, what is the cost of this? So when we talk about inclusive, it's not about, it's about what experience are you giving the people? What experience, difficulties everywhere, you know, and I mean, look at the last Christmas. I challenged my great brothers and sisters in the South-Eastern part of the country in particular. How many of you traveled for holiday? So the culture of that region of our country is fast changing. Look at the train attack. In March 2022, or Jerebao, there was a train attack in Apuja, and we discussed surveillance and the need to equip for security purposes. Look at the one that happened in Edo State. The one that happened in between Kaduna and Apuja, even though the government, you know, succeeded in getting all the assets out. How many of the kidnappers were arrested reportedly or even prosecuted? So what sense of belonging are you giving the people? Even the elections where we are approaching now is so ethnic-driven, religion-driven, and you keep asking yourself, the UAE is managed by Muslims. They are prosperous, united Arab Emirates, inclusivity. So what happened in Qatar? Qatar made a lot of profit, and it brings us to the same good governance we are discussing. We've been talking about Qatar building the first air-conditioned stadium in the world, and they achieved it. Nobody invested in it. Yes, this is not chasing anybody anyway. They didn't allow religion to scuttle that big event, and they're going to benefit from it for a long time. We are still asking in this country, who are the oil thieves? So whether you are from Medjugorje, whether you are from Arochu, who have been to all parts of this country by the grace of God, we have wonderful around the country. Who are these cabals? We understand the prosperous tourism in this country about 400. Who are they? Who are they? Who are the oil thieves? When you talk of inclusivity, I'm sure that if you do effective profiling, all the ethnic regions in Nigeria are represented among the oil thieves. Let them come out and defend themselves. So we are asking that whether I'm from Kaduna, or I'm from Goya Yubei, or I'm from Andambra, let's have a sense of belonging. And if you want to study a template in Africa that has achieved that, go to Rwanda. You don't even mention ethnicity in Rwanda. You are in Rwanda. And I guess why that region is one of the fastest-going economies in Africa. But that's because Rwanda had to learn the hard way. They also were somewhat dancing around the same situation that we have right now. I was making some reference. Now we are talking about... In this country, some people have been moving around with daggers for years as part of the addressing culture. We were talking about Kota system. Where is the equity in the system? That's what I'm saying. I have never read that because somebody is from New York or Maryland in the U.S., so you have access to the university and someone from Texas. We don't have access on the same score. So we have created a system that is promoting injustice. And where there is no justice, there cannot be good governance. I appreciate one of our colleagues here saying that we need to speak up. We have been speaking up. Go and study the London you go for treatment. How is the London health facility? How is it managed? How is the economy of Switzerland managed? How is Saudi Arabia managed? What are we saying? Now we have found oil in the north. We have oil in the south. What benefit has all given to Nigeria? At the point, NNPC remittances zero to the federation account. Now it's now limited to what extent. So we need to wake up and enjoy the good of this land. Okay. All right. You see, insecurity, hardship, no, no, no, no. Inclusivity means we all enjoy. I'm an American. I'm an American. I enjoy the America well. All right. I need to go to Dr. Barista because we do not have time. Mr. Nenuju, there are many pundits who said that maybe a democratic system of government does not necessarily fit the Nigerian system. There are many who would say that maybe democracy has been forced down the throats of Nigerians and that's why we're so terrible at it. Do you agree that maybe there is another system of government that we need to employ that would one way or the other set us right? Despite its problems and challenges, fear represents the very best for a multi-ethnic, multi-religious diverse society like Nigeria. I see nothing wrong with it. We have had an example of very bad governance by the current administration of President Govheri. It is not enough to force us to lose hope in the promise of democracy. No, it's not enough. Govheri fails simply because he failed to embrace Nigeria as a nation of diverse people. Now, yeah, he simply sought to employ nepotism as policy and that's why his administration failed. There are no two ways about it, but that he failed does not mean that we should lose hope in the promise of democracy. We must continue to do it. It is due to Govheri's failure that awareness was suddenly forced upon the land and due to that availability of awareness, the youth took charge as it's been historically. Whenever in any society the elders seem to disappoint the youth, the youth have always been known to force their ways forward and then take charge as they are currently doing. So, I believe, as I said earlier, we should never shy away from speaking up. Nobody will kill you. I ran a particular program on television for up to seven years and I was very successful in bringing light and being able to actually push what I wanted and bringing a lot of information for people to understand. Most people didn't understand before that there was actually a slow-motion war for ancestral land across the country. Some people thought there was actually as being bandied by politicians a farmer's heather crisis. There was not. It was a simple strategy to deceive the population whereas the slow-motion war, who thought being supported by that musician sustained. Why did it sustain? People kept quiet. We refuse to speak truth to power. Don't stop. Democracies flourish when citizens are awake to alert other citizens about wrongdoings by politicians or by those who seek to hijack the institutions of state. But what is a democracy if you just talk and then other forms or other things that make up a democracy doesn't work. For example, Oppenabod did say that it's unfortunate that you cannot actually probe certain people or get them out of office while they're in that seat, especially for members of our National Assembly. It seems like a thog of war of sorts. And again, why is this a democracy if the court systems are flawed? If the legislature is a rubber stamp one, why do we call it a democracy? What is a democracy if all of these things do not work? You do not keep quiet. You don't give up hope. But what is shouting for if I cannot get a result from just shouting or speaking up? We can get results. Take for instance, Mr. Pitu, we went forward, accused the government of the day that its members are responsible for the OU theft. What happened? I feel sustained. They went back and they suddenly stopped doing that. You cannot stop simply because sometimes you don't succeed. No, keep trying. Don't stop. Don't give up hope. We cannot afford to sell despair to our millions of citizens. We must continue to do that thing. Don't stop. Don't stop because it didn't work the first time. Continue to press your game. Continue to sustain. It took a lot of targeted action by Pitu, as he kept speaking for any position to agree that yes, the OU was being stolen by people in government. And what happened today? They have stopped the stealing. Or at least we have seen that they have not made a declaration of the production. So we cannot afford to keep quiet. The fact that we can talk means things can get well. Don't stop ever speaking to power. Back to you, Emmanuel, and I want to end with you. You did say something about doing background checks and not just relying on what the politicians say because I've heard Jimmy Ducey say you can get a really good manifesto. Anybody can write a manifesto. You can sit in the UK and write a really good manifesto. And the man who is being written for has no idea what's in the manifesto. But then also, as stakeholders, whether it's maybe the media, civil society, the voters, every single person, young people, women, people living with disability, there's a lot of information that's available to us. But we hardly go for that information. We rather go for hearsay. We forward these messages on social media or WhatsApp that sometimes is propaganda. Does it have to do with illiteracy or is it just outright ignorance? People like to be spoon-fed. They don't like to do the work. They don't like to take their time and do research. I was reading something. But they tell you as journalists, you don't do, in Nigeria, you people are not doing investigation. You don't investigate. Funny enough, they tell us that we don't do investigations. They come to the media and they tell us that, oh, you don't do investigation. You don't investigate. Do you do anything? Do you do anything? Even research. You want your professors to go do research. You go there and you go copy something there. If not because of all these little apps and all the websites, they are catching their little failures. But they don't have the time to actually go out there and actually do the research and hear from the main source about these persons. Ask relevant questions. Don't wait for people to come to you and start telling you this and start telling you that and start making because this is a very sensitive time. Everybody is trying their very best to appear very good. But this is the time where you have to make sure that all the information you're getting are credible information. I went on Wikipedia today and I really was amazed at the information that is out there about certain things that happened. And it was, it didn't even hold back. The 30 persons I was reading about today are like, how are these three persons still working free in Nigeria? For everything they did in the Niger Delta region. So these are some of the information that is out there for everyone of us for us to go there and read about these persons. There are credible articles online about people, not propaganda. Look for something way back that wrote about somebody. Check the person's profile. Come back and ask yourself, does this person fit into the person I want? See, Nigeria today we can shout. We know what shouting has done to us. It is until you bleed, that is when you get results. The shouting alone can never help you. Until you bleed, that is what they always wait for. We need to be able to petition our government and then hold them responsible. There were things that some persons in the House of Assembly, some persons in the Senate did or have done and that were worthy of them stepping down. But today they are still there. There are people that have held that place down like it's their own private property, like it's a equivalent land. They should live. Well, I want to say thank you to all my guests today. I want to say thank you to Katch Under the Jew. He is a special advisor to Mr. Peter Albion, Public Affairs, Emmanuel Ouccai as a broadcast journalist. Opponabot Incultire is a civil rights advocate and Gideo Logo is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much gentlemen. I don't think that this conversation should end. I think we have to continue in this conversation some other time. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. Well, before we leave you on the show tonight, we have a round up on all of the highlights from this week in case you missed the show. But don't forget, go get your PVC at this teal time. INEC has extended the time for you to get your PVC. Go to your registration center or your ward because your PVC is access to a new Nigeria. I am Mary Anacone. Have a great weekend.