 The Zamfara State Government has directed individuals to prepare and obtain guns to defend themselves against the bandits that have occupied almost all parts of the state. It has also directed the State Police Commissioner, Mr Ayuba El-Kana, to issue licenses to residents of the state who are qualified to use guns for self-defense. The Governor said no stone will be left unturned in order to eliminate all the terrorists terrorizing the state. Joining us to discuss this is former Assistant Director of the DSS, Mr Dennis Amakri. Mr Amakri, it's good to have you join us. Hello, how are you doing? I'm fine, thank you. This is not the first time in the history of us fighting terrorism that we've gotten to hear someone high up there tell us to defend ourselves. I remember some time last year I think you and I had this conversation when the Chief of Defence staff said that why are we cowardly, why can't we rise up and defend ourselves? And for me, I'm wondering, I have no tactical training, I have no weapons training whatsoever. How are we supposed to defend ourselves against a group of terrorists that have maybe even better weapons as opposed to what we might have or whatever we might have licenses to? But help us understand why a Governor will take this position. First things. Yeah, thank you for having me. I think the Governor was aware with the security problem that is happening in the state. So it is very sad that it asking people to defend themselves. I think one important thing we have to do there is that the insecurity problem has risen to such a level that people are now so frustrated and they wanted to get some kind of, what can I help? We've seen governments try their best in dealing with these packets of violence. We've seen the amotecos of this world. We've seen all kinds of paramilitary organizations, sometimes just vigilante. Security, you know, put together and sometimes even armed, sometimes not armed to deal with these issues. But they seem to not necessarily be able to deal with the issue. So I ask you as a security person, why did you choose the word overwhelm? Yes, it is overwhelming if you watch your people die helplessly every day. And security operations also fall in the line of, you know, duty and you're unable to do anything. What do you think is at the core of this? Why is this overwhelming situation where it is right now? And is it something that we should also give up hope on because the Zamfara State issue has been lingering for several months? What exactly do you think we need to do? Because every time I feel like we're having deja vu conversations, we keep saying what needs to be done, what needs to be done. But how, I mean, I listened to a conversation last week, if I'm not mistaken, about how many trillions of Naira has been voted into security. But then we literally are yet to see, you know, the after effect. All we still hear is the number of people that are dying. So help us understand what exactly are we not doing that needs to be done? I personally think that we are not addressing this problem from the root. You know, we have to address the root causes. Because without addressing those root causes, the problem persists. Same thing in Padula, same thing in Zamfara, same thing in the whole Northwest, where half people keep napping and say they don't want money, they know the government knows what they want and we keep on going around it, you know. I think that these things, governments know exactly what is the problem and if they address those problems, then we are home free. I hear a lot of probabilities here and I'm guessing, I'm not in any way trying to be a crusader for the people of Zamfara or the Northwest, but these are conversations that have to be had, we keep saying if, and if a governor is saying that we should pick up guns, go to the commissioner, go through step 1, 2, 3, 4 to get a licensed weapon. What is the downside and what's the guarantee that these guns will not be turned on ourselves? One, there are also those who are of the narrative. The reason why we have these terrorists in the first instance is that those guns got into their hands through politicians and that's why we have what we have today. What is the guarantee that giving guns to more people will not aggravate the situation? Again, why are we making this a back burner issue as opposed to it being drummed up every single day and I'm talking about we, including inclusive of the media and security agencies? You are very right on point there because you see what we are dealing with is that this problem has persisted for so many years, more than 30 years now. And then we keep on putting a white wash on it, we don't want to solve the problem because you find out that okay, now we are very serious issue in our hands and the security agencies are not empowered to actually go ahead and deal with it. How do you mean? How do you mean they are not empowered? Trillions of Naira are voted to security every year. Yes, how many military people, the whole army, navy, air force put together are not up to one million, okay? Including the DSS police, police is just about three hundred and seventy people, you know? And now we are a country of two hundred thousand. How do you police or provide security for a very large mass like that? People have brought out solutions of how do we solve this? Created state police, people are scared, the politicians are scared because they believe that they can always misuse the police or the security agencies. You know, you don't have to do that. Just create these agencies to take care of the law enforcement. Police is for law enforcement. You know, so if you allow the police to do their law enforcement, they will enforce the state laws, the local government laws, the federal laws. But the laws of the politicians or the laws of the party. So this is the problem we are having. Because the politicians could, you know, play on the streets by hiding their head and they all, you know, this is happening, you know, defend yourself, you know? But how far are you empowering them? The Zafara governor wants to buy about, he wants to buy arms for five hundred people. He's not going to buy a pistol, he's going to buy AK-47 or better for the kinds of people that they are going to fight. One AK-47 is more than five hundred thousand Naira. And then that kind of money that you are prepared to spend now, why don't you strengthen the police people or the DSS in your state? So this is the problem we are having. Now you see, you can even see that the police commissioner and the governor are not in very good terms because he has come out to the public to counter what the governor said. Interesting. So this is the root cause of the problem that we are facing. I want to just tie this to, I mean, what's happening in the US. We see the level of gun violence and it seems to be spreading to every county, literally, in the US. And that's because the US has a license to carry, an open carry policy in certain states and in some other states. You can just walk in, you know, to a march and get a gun. That's on one side. Back to the fact that we are in campaign season and elections are around the corner. Why are people, especially in the Northeast, I know that there's been an outcry, but we're not seeing some form of pressure on the government from the people themselves. Because what we see are people campaigning for people who they think they want to be president or Senate or whatever. The elections have seemed to be taking front and center of everything, but people are dying. They become numbers of sorts because we report them every other day. So I ask, could the reason why these things are persisting be the fact that we, the people, really affected are not as persistent in pursuing our cause for life, as opposed to how we're most excited about whoever we want the candidates of whatever party to be? Yes. First of all, you talked about the arms proliferation in the United States. You know, the citizens of the United States believe that their first amendment has guaranteed them to carry a gun. Yes. You know, in fact, last week, it was the issue. And the state of Texas have come out to say that if you have one and a both, you can go walking to any gun shop. They have guns all over the place and buy the gun that you can use without permit, just because you're a U.S. citizen. And now they are also fighting with the issue because somebody can buy, even as a social worker, go into a school and shoot people. Within a month's time, it has happened in so many places, even right now. You know, yesterday, I went into a tire shop and I shot some people. So you find out that gun control is becoming an issue and it's going to be the best campaign issue in the United States elections in 2006, 2020. So the other side of it is that many people in Nigeria are not well educated about political issues. We believe that, you know, being an election or democracy is not elections. So during the election period, these same politicians, they know because they have played on the honor, you know, the ignorance of the people by promising them all kinds of things, believing that they can give them money, they can buy your votes, they can buy and give you bags of rice. And when you need the rice, you are satisfied. And then when he got into office, he doesn't owe you because he has paid you. So I think there is a rejuvenation where people are believing that right now you have to really pick up. And then, of course, be the people because the constitution says, be the people. So it is that education that we need whereby people will start to understand that the country belongs to them and they, the government or people in government represent them, they send them there. They are their servants, people in government are their servants, not their lords because we believe that, you know, people in government are our fathers. They are our lords. The governor would go and repair a room, a two-mile room, and people would be praising him and dancing on the street that he has done something in the actual governor as if he used his money to do it. So this political education is what we need. Well, it's something that we have to keep talking about. Unfortunately, we have somewhat got to a place where we don't necessarily place that much value on the number of lives that are being lost. And we're hoping that all of that can change in the future. Dennis Amakri is the former assistant director of the DSS. And we appreciate you for being part of this conversation. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. Before I go, I'd just like to say, these people who are our leaders, their number one duty is to protect us. They promise us that they want to bring change. Have you seen it? Well, on the other hand, they tell us that they want to reclaim Nigeria and you ask them from what or from who? These same people are in office and want to bring a ton around to Nigeria. But they're in office. They're unable to protect us. They're unable to protect our children. We no longer have safe spaces for our kids to go to school. Even you are unsafe to travel the highways to any part of the country. Is that the life that we want as Nigerians? So think deeply about these things. When next you go out there to try to drum up support for somebody, whoever that person is, ask yourself, is this the person that will bring the change that we need in Nigeria? I'm Mary Annacle. Have a good night.