 Paul Lederer, the chairman and co-owner of the Western Sydney Wanderers. Football is in his veins and during his time with the Wanderers, the club has won the 2014 Asian Champions League, moved into the State of the Art Wanderers Centre of Football and of course seen the construction of Bank West Stadium. In 2018 he was elected the new chairman of the Australian Professional Football Club Association. I sat down with Paul in his office. So Paul, let's start with your love of the beautiful game, the world game. Where did it start? Where did that fire begin for you? I think like every kid, I probably was five years of age or maybe a bit younger and you just fall in love with the game. I think it's the most simplistic, the most beautiful game you can play. It's the easiest game, get a ball, kick it to your mates and you just fall in love with it. It's completely impartial if I can use that word to the game of soccer or the game of football because it doesn't matter where you live, how you live, all you need is a ball. It unifies everybody. You can be the smartest, the dumbest, you can be the richest or the poorest along as you love the game. Once you get on the pitch, you're all in one group, you're in one team and you enjoy each other's company. I think as a young guy, it's the greatest pleasure in life when you play football. It's a pleasure, it's an honor to play football. It's great. That's why it's probably the number one game in the world, is the world's game getting bigger and better every year. And for you and your family and the letter of name, it's in the DNA, isn't it? It's part of the DNA. It's in the DNA. My father was a goalkeeper back in Hungary, originally from. My uncle was a national team manager for the Australian national team. He was also a team manager for Sydney. It was Hakawa. It's back to his old days. I went back to the roots and it's just natural that we all love football. Where did the Western Sydney Wanderers come from? Where did it come from? Where was it born? It only started only a few years ago. Western Sydney, if I may say, I think been a little bit deprived all the time. It's a working class area, a very proud area, but at the same time the fastest growing area in Australia. I think the annual growth rates are around 8 per cent per annum. And an opportunity came to create a Western Sydney Wanderers football club and the people, of course, captured it. They love it and we got the best support base that money can buy, to be honest. It was mind boggling. As a Western suburbs boy, I grew up one of six, half Lebanese in Guilford, Western Sydney. But to watch this club and the way that it started, the way it captured people's imaginations and family's imaginations and support was like nothing I'd ever seen. I never experienced anything like it myself. From day one, it's been phenomenal. Look, we had a lot of success. We had some failures and we had a couple of bad years, especially the last couple of years have been really, really disappointing. But the fans have been abandoned us. They're phenomenal. And I think we've got a lot to look forward to. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the positivity because, you know, you can't be winning trophies every single day of the week and it was extraordinary, the early success. But there's a lot to be positive about, isn't there, for the Wanderers and the fans of the Wanderers? I think what we achieved as a club in the last eight years, not to be any club has ever achieved that much. Now, of course, our fans are very disappointed because the last 12 months have been very disappointing. We went for a number of coaches. We had lots of interesting coaches. We had Mr. Gambaus started with us. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Then we had Marcus Pebble, a world-class player with incredible credentials. He started. That didn't work out. He just never got used to the Australian landscape. Now we've got John Paul, who has started with us recently. And I'm crossing my fingers that it'll work out and we're going to give every opportunity to him to make sure it does. What do we need to do? What do we need to do as a club? Win. We need to win. So how do we get the chess pieces? There's no substitute to win him. I think as a squad of players, we have got a great squad of players. But at the same time, I've got to be realistic. A very inconsistent squad. Very inconsistent. For one reason or another, a very inconsistent start. We're going to have a review. We're going to have a review within the next few days, actually. And we're going to have a look at it and say, what did we do wrong? But more important, what are we going to do in the future to make this club what it should be? By the way, did we know Stan turned? And we're going to do everything possible to make it happen. But we need to be realist about the whole thing as well, because it's an interesting time. It's a difficult time. The whole world's wobbling on its axis. So the whole negotiation, payment of players, getting squads together is limited by the fact that do we know what the salary cap is? Do we know what's coming or what's not? So it's a delicate procedure, isn't it? It is. We are talking with FFA about the salary cap. That should be known within the next few days. Most likely within a week, we'll know what the salary cap will be. I can't comment on that, because I don't know what it is. It's a negotiation. Then, of course, we've got to sit down with the PFA and negotiate a deal with the PFA and see where that goes. Look, to manage a football club today compared to six months ago, it's a different world out there. Amazing. It's a different world out there. I'm not going to pull any punches. It's a very difficult time. It changes daily. Absolutely changes daily, as you know. These restrictions, border restrictions, is causing havoc to our game. They're no crowd. Really, it's a real problem, et cetera. Hopefully, we get over it soon. That's all I can say, and we all hope, all of us. Because usually, when things are tough in life, usually when someone loses their job, or life isn't going all that well, sport is that safe haven, isn't it? Sure. The team I follow, the Wanderers or whoever. At the moment, for people that's been stripped from them, it's back in some form now. Sure. Well, look, planning is so difficult. Planning is the most difficult thing I have ever encountered. As you rightly say, we don't know about salary cap. We don't know about travel. We've got bubbles. We've got all kinds of stuff that we never had before. And we do not know what tomorrow brings. Because every single day, the health department will bring out different regulations and different set of rules, which we've got encompassed. And we've got to make our best. But it's very difficult to plan for the near future. I'm very optimistic about the long-term future. I've got no doubt in my mind about the long-term future. I just got a real problem about the near future, how we navigate this and how do we overcome it. But we will. I'm so always positive. It's the only way to be, isn't it? You've got to work at times like this inch by inch, is a cinch, mile by mile is a trial, because you don't know what's coming. So you've got to work with what's in front of you. This season, obviously, it's nearly over. There's been some positives, particularly towards the back end. So we're now going to focus, I'm talking for the A-League team, ahead to this next season. Look, we've got to remain cool. Look, we can overreact. We can have an overreaction about sacking people and get rid of him. You hear the crotch cry, get rid of him and all that sort. That's just irrational. I don't put up with that. To me, you've got to have a cool head. You've got a professional. You've got to look at it objectively. And you've got to do your best. Obviously, that's what we're here for. There's no question about that. And we're here to ensure the long-term future of this club. That's what we're here for. And we will do everything in our power. Is there guarantees in football? I'd love to tell you there is. But unfortunately, I've got to say, there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee. You look around the world, just as recently as now, just as an example, to Chelsea Football Club or the EPL. They sacked their coach, Sari. He went to Juventus. They sacked him there. By the way, this is a world-class coach. This is a guy with all the credentials in a world. There's no guarantees. One guarantee is that we're a club, a strong club, that's building, that's been around for only a short time. And it's very much a family club. And I know that having spoken to you off-camera and discussions, that's a message that is really, really important that we talk about going forward. This is a club for people and families. And it always has been. Look, the most important part of our club is our fan base. Who are we playing for? And the Western Sydney people are very special, always have been. I had the privilege and pleasure of working in that area for the better part of 50 years. So I should know a little bit about the Western Sydney people. They are the best supporters that money can buy. They're phenomenal. These people are passionate, honest, and supportive of the club that's like no other, which is fantastic. And you get it through the whole family, mum, dad, the kids. It's really nice to see. I know in the today's show I did several stories, one in Campbelltown, one here, one there, where the whole family was around the TV and living, breathing every moment, every wanderer moment. Nothing gives me great a pleasure that when I arrive at the game, I get out of a car for about a kilometer from the stadium, banquests, and I walk. And I love walking amongst the people. And you see hundreds, it's not thousands of kids, women, ladies that are wandering around, coming to a game. It is just fantastic. That's what the game is all about. That's why we're doing all this. There's no other reason. There's no real commercial reason you do this. If you are in the game for a commercial benefit, you're in the wrong game. Let me help you. I've been in business for a hell of a long time and football is not about a commercial benefit. But it gives you great satisfaction, great pleasure when you see all these kids and young people, a woman fan base, going to the game, phenomenal. And we've got this great Santa now, Paul. It's extraordinary. It's world class at Blacktown. It is literally a field or fields of dreams without sort of stealing too much from Kevin Costner. And it offers people and young people around that area, many with no money at all, obvious opportunity and opportunity here. Well, I like to say there's a lot of people who think that our club is all about the A League. It's all about the senior team, et cetera. It isn't. It's much more than that. Be part of the community. We build this field of dreams as good expression, a very good expression. It's a field of dreams. It gives everybody an opportunity to play football. They made a conscious decision that we are not charging any fees for any of the players. We were the first club in Australia to do that. Very proud of that. Because again, the hardworking man and woman of the Western Sydney, they don't have to pay. The club will support that. Hopefully in the future, of course, we're going to produce players, hopefully. But at the same time, we're not going to all produce world class players or great players. We're going to produce some, hopefully. But there's also for the people that just enjoy playing the game. That's important. That's what we're going to do. So Ian Crook, such a famous name in the world of football, and he's heading up the academy for the Western Sydney Wanderers. And I had a discussion with him the other day and there's nothing he hasn't done in the game. But he talked to the idea of, of course we want to, like you just said, we want to bring great players through who will then play at the top league. But we also want to have good people and better people when they leave outdoors. Sure. That's very important. I mean, Crook C is a, is a great coach. He has played at the highest level. Don Hotspur, you don't get much better than that. Played EPL, played lots of games. The young kids really love his coaching methods. They love how he behaves, his mannerisms and all that sort of stuff. Look, he's an asset to our club. You don't get too many Crooksies in this country who are prepared to put something back into the game. And by the way, he does this for the love of the game. There's no question about that. It is not so much about dollars and cents. It's all about the love of the game. And hopefully we will uncover some real jams and some real diamonds amongst them. Absolutely. And men and women, the women's game has just grown exponentially. I've got a 12 year old who's in year seven, absolutely loves it. Loves nothing more than being a defensive player in a football team. And it's growing and it's going to continue to grow. I think it's got the most potential, the greatest future. I think the women's game is so underestimated as to what it could become. It has become already, but there's so much more to go. I think women's game of the future will be a game changer. What about those people that just love this game inside and out and have seen the growth of the A-League and are getting a little bit, they get a little bit worried when they see the TV deal and all that kind of thing. What sort of message do you have to those that just want to see the game prosper, those people that live all over Sydney and all over Australia? Look, football has gone through a bit of turmoil lately. There's no question about that. It has, but the potential of football is unlimited. You've got to be positive. It didn't become the number one game in the world by accident. We need the right management, we all do. And we need the right people in the right position and football will go like a rocket. I think we lost our way a little bit. We're not producing enough young players to the caliber we should. I think we really got to concentrate all of us, each individual club and as a unit, to produce the right players. The harry keels of the world, we hear a lot about the Mark Vadoukas of the world. Unfortunately, we're not producing them. There's got to be a reason for that. Now, we're going to give our club every opportunity for every kid to become a new Mark Vadouka or a new harry keel. And it's vital, isn't it? Because they're out there. They're out there. I mean, look, you just got to look at Australia. Australia has a phenomenal sport in country. I mean, you look at sports in Australia and take Aussie rules or you take rugby league or anything. We produce great players. So there's no reason, excuses that we shouldn't produce the greatest players. Why not? We should produce as equally as good as anyone. It's interesting. The Australian average 40-year-old is better physically, mentally in every respect than his counterpart overseas. Gets to the age 17, there's a problem. There's a problem. What is a problem? We have to fix it. That's our challenge. We've got to find why. Why don't more young people get up to the grade that they should be? Yeah, and thank God we've got the facility where the perfect facility. No excuses for us. Zero excuse because honestly, you know, I've been saying it for a while, no excuse whatsoever. We've got the best gymnasium in the world. We've got the best facility, training facility, best academy, the best stadium. I mean, that's all you can do. Now, we achieved that in a very short period of time, which I'll say I'm pretty proud personally. And the team that I have should be very proud of what we achieved. And we're always coming back to the last 12 months or 2 years or 3 years for that matter. And by the way, disappointing? Absolutely. I don't hide from that. It's disappointing. Am I happy about that? Of course not, etc. Are there reasons for it? Yes, there are. But to go into great detail, what those reasons are, etc. It's counterproductive, really, counterproductive. And it's behind us. We're going to look for the future. Make tomorrow better. We can get nostalgia here. Let's think back. And it's not that far to some of the success. What was it like when the Wanderers won the title? Oh, look, it's even difficult to mention words for that because it was that great. I mean, we have beaten some of the best teams, not all the teams, the best teams in Asia. Now, when we lined up in China for argument sake and we're playing this team, I think our total budget at that time was around $2 million for our budget or salary cap, you call it. The Chinese team was $450 million. We had players playing against us who were transferred at $40 to $50 million per player. So it was just an incredible experience, incredible effort from our team, from our coaching staff, etc. And an incredible effort from our fans who supported our team through thick and thin. It was fantastic. It was absolutely great. Look, we had a lot of success, really. My message to our fans is just remember one thing. Our club is only seven years old. That's it. That's it. From scratch. So it's not bad. No. Am I happy with the latest results? I keep reminding everyone. I'm not. Am I working my best to overcome that? Yes, I am. And it's only a move that way, a move this way, it's a moment in that way, and it all comes back. It's a very little difference. People believe there's a massive difference to be success or no success. Massive difference. No, it isn't. It could be one or two players. It could be just a different attitude. It could be just a coach. It could be a lot of things. I don't want to pick a point, but the difference is a little difference. We used to say in our club for quite a while, the 1% is make a big difference. Make a big difference. Those small moments. These smaller moments. What about Bankwest when we talk about a big thing? Look, as a boy that used to go to Cumberland Overland, it was just like an old grandstand. They burned it down 981, and they built Paramatter Slash per text stadium. But this place now is just unbelievable. And I happily take my 85-year-old father, and it's accessible to everyone. It's in a great spot, and the Wanderers had a big part to play in it being where it is. Absolutely. And let me say that we did have a part to play for my son-in-law's self. It's a quarter of the best experience of what football is, Bankwest. For me, it's fantastic. The viewing, the atmosphere, the lighting, the facilities, it's a second to none. Second to none that I can think of in Australia. In fact, I would say for a stadium, which is a capacity of 30,000, you can go around the world and you get very few stadiums as good as that. So it's great. It's a pleasure to go there. And you guys paid your part, didn't you? I know you're modest, but the Wanderers were one of the driving forces of getting it built. Well, let me say, Mike Baird won't be happy that I'll tell you. The first option was to give us a check for $30 million to refurbish a stadium. And Mike and his wife and his kids came that particular night out to the game. And I think my words were, Mike, don't waste your money because the bottom line is you just can't do much for $30 million in a stadium. Four weeks later, he rang me up personally. He said, are you happy today because we're going to announce a new stadium? So we had a little bit to do with it. I like to believe we did. And the thing that I love about it is it's a great place to go. And for people of Western Sydney, you mentioned it earlier in this piece, you know, they're basically the backbone of this country. So for them to have the opportunity to go to a world-class stadium and watch the team that they love is great. Well, let me put Tim, put it this way. To my recollection, for 100 years they never had it. This is one in 100. This is the first time the Western Sydney people got a facility that is world-class. That's all I can tell you on that one. That's beautiful. It's fantastic. Well, like I've enjoyed this. It's been great to have a chat. We will chat again. But I just want to leave. What's the message? Because it is a message of positivity. It is a message of a club that is young. It's a message of a club that's had success. But it's got a great fan base and a real solid platform to move into whatever the future holds. Look, my message is we've achieved the hell of a lot. I don't want to leave it on the past. But nevertheless, we've got to realise what we have done and achieved. In life you go through difficulties. You go through challenges. What makes a difference is what do you do about those challenges? How do you react to those challenges? So let's not be rational about this. You've got a great club. You've got a great stadium. You've got a great academy. And by the way, you've got a very good football team. You have. Disappointing this year, yes. That's it. But let's stick together. Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, without saying, I mean, every time when the chips are down, that's when you find out who your friends are. So therefore, the fans as well. This is your club. This club doesn't belong to me. A lot of people say it's your club and etc. It isn't my club. This club belongs to you. The fans own this club and we're trying everything in our power to underpin this club financially. I mean, nobody has spent more money, no one in this country on a club than we are. And why do we do that for the fans? We're not doing it for ourselves. So now we need the fans to support us. Of course we do. Not only support a team when they're winning, support the team through thick and thin. That's what footballers are. You know, that's how it is. Liverpool had their glory days this year. They had a terrible years in the past. But the fans are there every week. Man United is running sixth or running first or running tenth. 74,000 people turn up every week. What's the famous saying? I don't want to put too many cliches in, but I'll finish it. Tough times never last, but tough people do. That's perfectly put, Tim. I could never put it as eloquently as you have. That's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you.