 That's the interesting thing about artists working with labels is like they sell you on, you have this team, this individual team, but what they don't tell you is that everybody there is working on a hundred other things at the same time. So like you are like, oh, I got a marketer, I got an A&R, but then that marketer got 50 other artists on this roster. So you might realistically get 30 minutes of that person's time and work out the whole week. The record labels and the issue with the business model, I was just talking about, and many of y'all might not actually have had one of these scenarios happen to you or know of these scenarios, but a lot of times you have these A&Rs, if you will, or just middlemen, if you will, that will build up artists and send them over to the labels, right? It sounds like a great deal. It's like, hey, little Cory, I'ma come to you, I'ma get you poppin', and now that you're poppin', I've built your market value and I can sell you off to the labels. But here's the real issue that happens a lot of times. You have somebody who works with an artist, helps build them up, sells them off to the label, but you get rid of one of the most valuable parts of that artist or their path and their blow-up because that person who was really integral in blowing them up, sold them off to the label, and now the label doesn't necessarily know what to do with them. And sometimes, a lot of times, the artist doesn't know what to do with themselves because that person was way more integral than the artist thought, right? That'd be the big one. That's the thing, and then the label is like, you're investing in half of a business because that goes into underappreciating the value. Let's just say this marketer, A&R, whoever, who leveraged their resources and maybe even directed the artist, told them what to do throughout certain scenarios, and now you're just left with the artist and it's bad for everybody, right? The label's like, oh, man, I don't know what to do with this next thing, you know, well, we'll just drop them. We'll just consider that one of the L's. So there should be in every other industry, well, most industries that I know of, they have a clause when they buy a business, they try to negotiate something where you have to stay on for a year or two. There's a transition period before you can leave because we don't want all of a sudden the company to just blow up. Everybody say, hey, we were loyal to Corey or there's too much IP of why things were working and we need to make sure the transition is smooth, right? That same thing exists with these artists and I feel like people don't acknowledge that enough if an artist starts taking off and there's people around them don't just allow that. I mean, I don't know who that's worse for the record label side or the artist, because at least the artist got in a better position. You know what I mean? Now they're signed, well, but then they're got in a better position for a moment in time. I was about to say, yeah, it's temporary. Temporary good position. Temporary, but now you're like just flailing in this label, unacknowledged, nobody knows what to do with you. The vision that got you there is not longer than the person who was selling you to other people. That's another part. They just helped you and sold you to another organization. That means it's not just about selling you to the label. You still need that selling ability and understanding how to pitch you ability throughout everything you're doing as an artist because a great manager is always pitching you to playlist or, well, people they know around playlist, sometimes it's directly a playlist of sponsors, booking agents, whoever, right? You always need somebody who has the ability to pitch you and if you just get passed off and needless to say, some of these artists, managers are not necessarily that one that got them there. Yeah, I think that's where it gets lost, right? Because there are those positions that have, I think seen that and figure out ways to bake themselves in. Typically, I see it being managers and A&Rs. Managers and A&Rs are finding a way to stay attached to the situation, right? Some of them. Some of them, yeah, good point. You got some of these guys who are like, all right, I'm going to pass you off and I'm going to get a managerial fee even though I'm not even going to be involved. Yeah, or the A&R is like, I'm going to pass you off. I'm going to the next hot guy or something. All right, I'm trying to build another business and sell it off. And buying and selling is my entire way of moving. They flipping. Man, but I do feel like what's so hard, what's hard about that is like, it's hard sometimes to like quantify who was actually impactful and blow up until to your point, you can kind of step back and look at the, now that the process is over with, you can analyze it more clearly. And then you start to see like, damn, bro that videographer, I'm like, I'm really seeing like people saying they missed the old look of my videos and I'm realizing that dude, I got rid of to go get, you know what I'm saying? Hype Williams with some shit. You know what I'm saying? Like that shit. I'm paying 10 extra amount of money and then people are not messing with it. Yeah, it's like a 0.5 extra result. So I do think that's one of the issues. Like especially when the artist is blowing, it's like shit be moving so fast, like it's so hard to like sit down and analyze. We've been in that position, man. How many times have we been, you know, work with a nice little bright eyes, you know, indie artists, you know, they pop off, label come scoop them up. They're like, all right, we're gonna, you know, throw you to the label marketing team. We're like, all right, bro, you know, it's fun. It was fun working with you while it lasted. Hopefully we see you back in another three, four months. Not for good reasons, but like we've been in that position where it's like, man, you know, I get it. It's gonna be hard for you to fight for the marketing team, but you need us. You know what I'm saying? Cause we've already done the research to your point. I think too, it's like, man, we spent, like there have been clients where we've spent two years just talking to them to understand them enough to give them even an inkling of success. And then to your point, then they'll get passed off to this group of people that not only have to learn them, but they have to also learn them while figuring out how to keep the momentum going and keep growing them. It's a hard thing to do. You know what I'm saying? While they're also handling other artists. Yeah, exactly. While out in a lot of other artists too, you know, when you talk about against that level. So it's like, man, I was just telling somebody that man, I had a conversation with another client off line and I was saying like, that's the interesting thing about, I think artists working with labels is like, they sell you on, you have this team, this individual team, but what they don't tell you is that everybody there is working on a hundred other things at the same time. So like you are like, oh, I got a marketer. I got an A&R. But then that marketer got 50 other artists on this roster. So you might realistically get 30 minutes of that person's time and work out the whole week. You know, and then people look at it like, oh, y'all are expensive. Like, yeah, but we only work and we're like 15 people, man. So, you know, more expensive, but more time. So I do get it. More tension, hands on. I do get it, man. We only work with 15 people no more. Get that out there and don't put that in the universe. Oh, you're right. My bad, y'all. I'm listening up. It's about five max. And I think too, it has to do with just like, like how do you quantify, because to your point, right? Like if I'm an artist, let's say I've somehow lucked up and I got eight people helping me with different things. When I pop or when I have a big moment, all eight of them are going to evenly feel like their contribution is what helped me get here. The booking, they're just gonna feel like, yo, me getting you on that open instead of rolling out really pushed you a long way, right? The market is gonna feel like me optimizing those ads and getting those five or six influence posts really helped you out. The A&R is gonna be like, yo, me help connecting with that one producer really helped you out. So then how do you as an artist or a person that's a core part of the artist team accurately assess whose contributions really were what helped you go? Cause there's an argument that all of them, all their contributions are the reason you're here, so should all of them make a case to, you know, be sunsetted in, you know? Or do you step back and go like, all right. Eight of you were impactful. Maybe all, maybe, yeah, eight of you are contributed, you know, well, eight of you were impactful. Six of you only contributed 10%. These other two contributed 20% of peace, right? So I'm taking these two with me. You know what I'm saying? How do you quantify that? Yeah, it requires discernment for sure. I think it's understanding for one, the artist themselves, all right? So it's gonna be a little subjective, but and also the fan bases. What seems to be most important to the fans, right? And how can I control that? It's like when you think about a marketing department, these days the best marketing departments for companies are in-house, cause they understand the brand, the taste, you know? All of that so they can better communicate that and they can keep things consistent, which leads to more impact. So if you have like this consistent videographer where your artist has a good rapport and you're like, oh yeah, my artist is comfortable with this person so they have better videos as a result, right? You pay attention to those things. And I think that's especially important for maybe a manager to pay attention to. Or you know that, I think the videographer thing is easier to pay attention to. Who else would be on the team? You can get fan feedback on that, you know what I'm saying? Marketer then you will just be like, does this Marketer tend to understand what's going on with this artist? Like do they just seem to see the vision? They come up with really great narratives. They seem to get the artist pitch ideas that have a high percentage of the artists actually liking versus, you know, cause you know, we could throw out plenty of ideas and the artist just doesn't stick, right? So I think it's just judging those little things based on what someone's doing first. Like not even among all eight people. Let's just say there's eight people around the artist that they've worked with over time. Just first of all, like what's their quality of impact based on what they're supposed to be doing? And once you get that baseline, then you see is there, like so are they top level that, then you start to gauge like, all right, do they go beyond that somehow? Do they creep into other areas where, you know, like us, yeah, we can do ads for people or something like that, but then, and we can pitch some ideas to go around the song, but we also do like creative direction. Or mindset shifts. Mindset shifts, yeah, we coaching and things like that. Like, I mean, I will literally have this one guy, and I'm telling him the exact angles. It's like, no, you need to be closer up when you shoot this shot for this video. And then this happens and that needs to happen. Then he'll shoot a video and then we'll make some adjustments on how to come back. Like those are like smaller details. And then, but you have to also probably have some context of what another me looks like. Cause if you're not comparing me to anybody or don't know, cause I think that's a lot of times, some people, let's just say we'll talk ourselves up for a second, right? If we're their first experience, they don't know who to like the context of like, oh, other marketers might not know X, Y and Z, right? Or do X, Y and Z, right? And we pride ourselves on like really staying on the cutting edge. Well, and I think part of it is just cause we've had to, right? So we've just trained to look at everything differently. So I think it's one impact on fans. And like, what is that, is there a synergy there in terms of like what this person is doing is having a high impact on the fans. Two, is there a synergy with the artists that things just seem to click, right? Three, of course, and this is not in any particular order, do they do the job that they're supposed to do at a high level? You know what I'm saying? And if you don't, let's just say, hey man, I sucked at running ass. I'm supposed to be the ass guy, I sucked at running ass, and I'm not really good at getting influencers like that. But boy, I'm really coaching and getting the artists in their bag and pitching these ideas. Then you say, all right, well, how can I get him off of those things? But I still understand his impact enough that he needs to be here. And that's the difference between great coaches in sports, right? They understand their pieces. Phil Jackson, when Dennis Rodman say, yo bro, can I go to Vegas? And we in the middle of the playoffs and he say, yeah, go ahead. Cause he know that Dennis Rodman gotta get his thing going and he's gonna be good. But if I was playing, I would not be able to go to Vegas and come out like moving like Venice. Most people can't do that, but you understand that he psychologically has a different way of moving. So I guess that all that to say is, pay attention to your people and pay attention for them and then pay attention to the team collective as a whole. Cause that really what it is, it's team psychology. All right, so I wanna give a reminder that being independent is not just about not being signed to a label. It's actually making money without being signed to a label, being able to have a sustainable career. And for those of y'all who actually want to be able to make money from your fan base, you're serious about figuring out how to monetize. I have a free video that you can check out. I don't need your email. I don't need your phone number. I don't need any information. All you have to do is go to www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize. And I'm gonna show you the lies that artists have been told that have been keeping them probably you too from monetizing your fan base and how shifting that perspective has allowed one artist we're working with to be on track to make over $500,000 this year. This is a different era. Don't fall for that trap saying artists can't make money. Artists do not have to be broke. So if you wanna escape that trap, go to www.nolabelsnecessary.com slash monetize. You do have to make sure you put the www in the beginning when you type it in your URL and watch this free video again. You're not gonna be asked to put in your email. You're not gonna be asked for your phone number, but it won't be up forever. Check it out. It's crazy. Cause now I think about it. It ties back to the bigger narrative of labels don't like to develop talent. And I think we tend to think about that musically. But then what I'm hearing in your point is like it also applies to just the back end time of the artist. Like, cause to your point where that marketer that maybe sucks at running ads, but he or she is really good at getting the artists out the comfort zone with the content and maybe that's been what's been making the ads between the ad set up has been shitty, but he's been coaching him through some good ideas. So it worked out the easy way would be, okay, yeah, we're going to just replace you with an ad person. I think the better it would be like, all right, let us help you get better at this thing so we can keep you here. Because then everybody wins that is we don't have to like mess up the flow of this operation. You get a level or two better, which like if you were doing great with a shitty skill set, imagine how amazing you're going to be once the skill set is sharpened, right? Yeah, I know this is a easier one. Like we talking about ads, which is a easier skill set to sharpen like that. But from what I've seen, yeah, most of them are not doing that. They're not going to do that. It's a timeline. Like, I know a person that got a job at a label and like they were basically talking about it. Like when they got the job, they were just kind of thrown into the fire. Like there was no real like training period. There was no real, it wasn't like an orientation period where they like, oh, this is the right way to kind of do things. They just had to come in, you know, pay attention, listen and pick up and then just get into flow, right? Cause you look at it, it's a hundred people with a hundred things to do every day. Nobody has time to stop you and go like, yo, like this is the way we send emails. This is the way we, and now they might teach you as you fuck up, you know what I'm saying? And that's how they train. You was like, oh, you messed this up, don't do that. This is the right way to do it. But they're not like formally sitting down, like when we hire like market stuff, like we put them through like a training period. You know what I'm saying? We're like, all right, you hop on the call and me and Sean, you know what I'm saying? Like two or three times a week, you know what I'm saying? Every week for like the next three weeks and then, and then we throw you into the fire. I don't think, yeah, I won't say every label isn't doing it, but I would argue most of them aren't doing that. You know what I'm saying? But then you look at it and it's like, you look at the artist as this dominant and rough that needs to be developed. Most artists aren't getting picked up out of obscurity. They've more than likely built some type of a team around them. And what I think labels do fuck up at is they go like, how can I replace these people around you rather than how can I just insert people into this operation you've already built and give you resources to make your team stronger? Which I don't know, maybe I'm built different, but that's what I would do. Cause I'd be looking like, oh, you already got to add God. Great, we can save some money on that side. You know what I'm saying? And not, you already got to add God and he already expecting to eat off of your top line. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, this is beautiful, bro. Like, yeah, what he need, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's the, you know, and that's where the conflict of labels comes in when they have all these bureaucratic corporate initiatives or the way they're trying to save money and get things done that prevent them sometimes from doing what's best for an artist. Cause really it's easier and it's less work even on you individually. But then, you know, a label might be like, well, I went all this ad data or, you know, we've talked about. We don't trust your homie with the budget. Oh, we know he's gonna spend the whole 10K. All these different things, you know? And they'll throw stuff out like that to hide their real reasons. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, that's a good angle I'ma come at. But that really, I just don't want to give it over. And then you got those opportunities like you talked about the, I mean, even we've got these opportunities. We just don't use them. I just thought about it. You know, the free money we'll get from the ad programs and stuff like that. Yeah, the gratis. Yeah, yeah. Wow, what's up? It's Brian Manchin. And if you like this clip, you can listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you stream your podcast. But if you want to keep watching, we've placed a video that will be so useful for you conveniently above. Go ahead and click that link and watch it.