 There's only one soap that's going to get your masculinity to over 9,000. And that's tactical soap, pheromone-fused soap for men and proud channel sponsor of 21 Studios. I'm Anthony Dream Johnson, and I approve this soap. Order now. The link below. Use coupon code 21C for 10% off now. Well it's George Bruno with the 21 Report in Orlando, Florida. And it's my pleasure to be talking with Mr. Pat Campbell from 1170 AM in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we're going to talk to him about his message to men here. But first I want to find out what's your experience with the 21 Convention so far? It's been a real eye-opener. I like pretty much everything I've heard so far. Fascinating meeting some of the people, hearing their stories. You come from a very diverse, I guess, background. You've got people traveling from other parts of the world to come here just to see some of the speakers. That's amazing. Yeah. What about the content? When you looked at the lineup and the content of the conference, is there anything that kind of jumped out at you or did you think there was more of something or less of something? What do you think? No. It's pretty much what I've been expecting. But part of it is because I've been part of the Red Pill podcast, I've had Rollo on. I've had a lot of these people on my program already. Jack Murphy, we've had Rich Cooper, I've had Rollo on. And there's somebody else that I'm missing right now. But most of these people I've been following on Twitter and or visiting their blogs for more than a year. That's fantastic. Yeah. I was really honored to be invited, cut completely off guard. I had a conversation with Anthony off air and he was talking to me about how he didn't have somebody like me growing up. And there aren't a lot of people like me anymore. And asked me if I wanted to come speak and I said, sure, let's do it. Isn't that amazing that that doesn't exist? There are people that say there's people like you that don't exist or they didn't exist while they were growing up. And you're having an effect on people and not even knowing it. That always blows me away. That's an experience I had teaching too. I taught for a number of years. I used to be a math teacher. I was weird, like sometimes 10, 15 years later, you'd have a kid come back and mention something that you said that had a profound impact on him or her. And it's like, wow, and radio's that way too. Radio's that way as well. So yeah, no, it's one guy came up to me here and he goes, wow, he says, Pat Campbell, he says, I can't believe you're here for real. Dude, just a guy on the radio, man. Just a guy on the radio. But he's been following me with Rolo. And I think he's seen me on a couple of the Red Pill podcast. But he digs what we're doing. But a number of guys have come here, traveled quite a distance to be part of this. Yeah, it seems like your message is consistent with everything here. You know, sometimes Red Pill and Manisphere broadcasts are sometimes confused with like a how to get laid conference or how to pick up checks conference. And it's so different than that. Have you noticed that? Absolutely. And the other thing is, and I've been talking about this with Rolo over the last year, the Red Pill has become very popular. And you've got a lot of people that aren't really Red Pill, that are trying to tap in to this magic. And that has to be weeded out. It does. I told Rolo, I said, you've got to protect your brand. Because people are hijacking it. They're making it safe. They're turning it into something that isn't. I got Red Pill politically. I got Red Pill physically. It's like, oh, please, come on. Yeah. There's people that are trying to leech on to the movement, too, for their own, I guess, financial reasons. And it's been interesting to just watch it evolve over the last year. How do you think that you contribute to the movement and to the Red Pill community and men in general? My mission, and I explained this to Rolo early on, I got the audio books, right? I started listening to them. Obviously, some of the language he uses on the audiobooks cannot be used in terrestrial radio, because the FCC will be crawling up my back end with some fines. I think he had a very important message to give, but he was giving it to a very limited audience. And I think the message is relevant. And there's a greater audience out there for him. I explained to him that my mission is to bring him to terrestrial radio, not only in my market where I am, but a lot of times I'll sit in for other people, like I sat in for Todd Schnitt, who used to be big in Tampa. But he's got a syndicated talk show. He's on at 65 Markets, right? I brought Rolo on the program. That's 65 Markets that I never heard of Rolo before. So that's my job, to bring him out there. And again, to give parents tools, because parents have kids out there, especially boys, but even girls, they're confused. Nothing makes sense anymore. Everything's backwards. Dating isn't dating. Dating means you're having sex. People are having kids before they get married. Everything's backwards. You've got many, many fatherless homes or absentee dads. And people are looking for answers. I've been surprised on my program is a number of women have actually purchased his books for their kids, for their boys. Yeah. Because they're looking for answers. Well, the first time that I heard that guys are bringing their women and their wives here, I thought, oh, my God, it's going to be, everyone's going to be offended. And there's so much support from females. The ones that are offended by it, well, they do have a certain look. I will say that. I'm not touching that one. Here's the deal. In talk radio land, attacking a woman on her physical appearance never ends well. It doesn't work well. The only person I've ever seen get away with it has been Donald Trump. And I am not Donald Trump. So I'm not going to go for the low hanging fruit. How does your message resonate in your region? Obviously, there is a internet reach with the radio station that you are at. But geographically, how is your message received by the geographical listening audience? So Tulsa, Oklahoma is known as the buckle of the Bible belt. I mean, there's a number of megachurches there. Oral Roberts University, a very strong evangelical presence, very strong Baptist presence. As I mentioned, I've encountered some resistance because, like, Rolo talked about his notch count. Or you got a guy on there bragging about how many women he's bagged. That was a long time ago, right? By the way, even if he was doing it today, I'm not bringing him on to talk about his notch count. I'm bringing him on because he's got compelling content, exclusive content in his books that makes sense out of how men and women interact in society. I'm not bringing him on as a pillar of virtue. I'm not bringing him on as a religious leader. I'm not bringing him on as a secular guy to share his knowledge with us and talk about stories that are in the news. And if you don't like it, guess what? Change the dial. Change the dial. Right? But he has been very well received, and especially the surprise for me, was by women listeners, who almost always agree with him. Except when he says things like, for every three times, she says, she loves you. You only give her two back. That didn't go over well. When he went off on tattoos, we were talking about a test holiday, the plus size model. And he had done a red pill episode about are women with tattoos always damaged material. Well, you look at test holiday. Test holiday is an extreme example. She's got full sleeves, whatever you call it, when you've got the full legs too. But the people that I work with, women in particular, what they heard, this is one of the great things that frustrates me as a talk show host. 25 years in November. I can control when I say, I've got a very elaborate vocabulary, but I cannot control what people hear or sometimes think they hear. So when Rollo was talking about tattoos, what the women at work heard was, if you've got a tattoo, you're a whore. It's not what he said, but that's the message they picked up. Because that's what they heard or thought they heard. And he also talked about the fact that he sent studies, we posted them on Twitter, scientific studies where the more tattoos you have, the more promiscuous you are, okay? And that applies to men and women. But men, nobody heard the men part, okay? It applies to men and women equally. And he also got into a discussion about the tattoo does not become, because the traditional one is the tramp stamp, right? That somehow makes you loose. He says, no, he says, that's not the way it works. He says, if you are, then you're gonna get one of those. But, and again, here's where you run into some problems. Not everyone that gets one of those is a tramp or even loose. A lot of people, especially with my daughter's generation, people are getting tattoos because it's trendy. It's the stylish thing to do. People wore bell bottoms at one time, not because it was the right thing to do or the good thing, it was stylish. And you can throw them away. Yeah, with the ink, that's a whole different story though. I had heard that tattoo removal is a faster growing industry than the tattoo industry. That kind of blows my mind. I sat around one of my daughter's softball games and by far women had more tats than guys. Seeing a woman at the game that didn't have ink, that was the, I counted two. Two that were in the, you know, the fan stand at the game. It's just, it's been a trendy thing to do. And it used to be years ago, the only people that got tattoos were guys. And they fell into a couple of categories. They were either bikers, military or convicts. And it was usually a sign that you were a badass, okay? And women have, as Rollo talks about, they're sort of playing out their badass with tattoos. Of course, tattoos, this is another thing that caused some issues on the radio, that women use them to mark like milestones. The birth of their first child, a divorce, any number of things. But guys do that too, you know, when a guy's going like my son's in the Marine Corps, well, of course you get a tattoo. I mean, you're in the Marine Corps, right? It's a rite of passage kind of thing. But they mark things too. And again, what some people heard was that, you know, only women get tattoos to mark, it's both ways. But that's the only area where women got a little ticked off with him. But by and far, they like what he said. Here's the, the only objection is he's right, but he doesn't have to tell everybody. Yeah. Don't let it out. Yeah, yeah. Well, as one of my favorite founding fathers, John Adams says, facts are stubborn things. That's true, that's true. How do you find that your message is received amongst the ages? Who is more receptive to your message and your data, your material, your style? Is it older, younger? Does it span all the age groups? It's weird because my core demo is supposed to be a 47 year old male, okay? I find the most resistance to, especially what I do with Rolo, from older listeners, male listeners. And I probably shouldn't say this on here, but sometimes I listen to people and I'm there like, you need to get laid. That's your whole problem. You've just turned into an absolute bitch. You need to get laid. And of course I can't say that on the radio. I've wanted to a couple of times. But they're frustrated because it's like that 65 year old guy I talked about at the start of the talk. In the twilight, he's looking back. He's done everything the way he's supposed to do. And he's been in a sexless, really loveless marriage. What do you get? Congratulations, here's your participation trophy. Right. Who is the greater commitment to? Of course he's, I don't want to say he's too old because you can even go back and change at that age. Yeah, yeah. But that's sort of the deal. That's where I get the resistance from. It's the older. And actually bringing Rolo on, I've attracted a whole new younger demographic to the program. I had one guy, he says, I only listen to Rolo. Okay, so the other 19 hours I do a week, that doesn't matter, just that I bring Rolo on. But hey, whatever works for you, Ned, yeah. Do you find being in the Bible Belt, do you find that there's a lot of Christian and biblical and evangelical resistance with wild at heart, promise keepers, these types of things, which I consider to be like, it's almost like, if I see a woman who is excited about her man going to the wild at heart conference, it's like, it would be like taking your dog to obedience training. I look at that stuff as like data training, obedience training, it's- I'm gonna steal that, that'll be on the radio. Yeah, you know, and I'm finding that it just, it makes a more compliant. This is what I talked about with Rolo. After reading the book, I'm convinced I was a trad con. I was past tense, a trad con. I'm the bouncer, I'm the enforcer. You know, if one of my friends gets divorced, I'm supposed to shame the guy. I don't know, Jack squat about what happened. But as long as we got the woman's story, that's good enough, I should go off on this guy. Shame him, right? And I just, I refuse to play that role anymore. But that's what it is because, and Rolo's coming out with that fourth book, which is the Lynch pin on religion. He even invited me to write the forward to it. That's the enforcement mechanism for the feminine imperative. You know, they say, well, the churches are run by men. Well, I don't know if you've been to a church lately. I'm Catholic, okay? And although it looks like a male-dominated church from the outside, you know, very patriarchal, because no female priest, anything like that, or ministers. Well, I shouldn't say ministers, because you're Eucharistic ministers. The reality is this is the exact opposite. The feminine imperative has infested every mainstream Christian denomination world, including Catholicism. We've got all sorts of problems going on in the church right now. And what you've got is a very effeminate priesthood, where if you go into the churches and see who's actually running the show, it's the women. You know, as Eucharistic ministers, as lectors, as cantors, you name it. They're running the show. It looks like a guy's doing it, no. And then you look at some of the changes in the liturgy, the wording, everything. It's like a Trojan horse inside every church out there. I spent years going to men's breakfasts, retreats, all kinds of men's Bible studies, that type of thing. And a lot of guys think it's real manly to go off in the woods and you stay at a lodge. It's gotta be like a log cabin kind of lodge. And you gotta wear a flannel shirt and jeans and boots and whatever. And they do things like rope cattle or whatever and have bonfires where they take, they write their stuff and crumble it up and bring it to the bonfire. Like they're leaving something behind and getting a fresh start. And I found that just, you know, and then the testimonies when they return. I went on this retreat and this happened, this happened. I'm gonna come back and be the man God wants me to be. Let me ask you this. What the heck? How do you define the man that God wants you to be? That's a great question. Here's the problem. By the way, I was talking with Rich Cooper about this earlier. There's, right now in the United States, there's 39,000 different Christian churches. All claiming to be Christian. I fight that joke. I said, if Jesus were to come back today, where would he go first? Pull out the yellow pages, sort of a dated joke. First church of Christ will stop there. Yeah, right, right. But they all claim to be Christian. They're all teaching things that are similar, but they also have, you know, differences between them. So it's, I don't know how the church defines a man. And what a man is supposed to, what he's supposed to be from a biblical perspective, because it varies from church to church. And depending on how much feminine, imperative infiltration there is in a church, it's gonna vary in degrees. Do you think masculinity is on a continuum? Do you think like, for instance, there are guys that are just slighter in build. There are men who just don't have a good handshake. There's men who just don't have, and I know you can lift weights. I know Ryan said, someone said, what should I do about confidence? Lift weights, you know, like a lot of people say, get laid, lift weights can solve, you know, 90% of a man's problems. But on that continuum, on that continuum, there are men who are at the lower end, and I don't wanna say feminine end, because that's insulting them. There are guys here, nerds, who are all day at a computer, they don't go to the gym, and then you got Navy Seal looking dudes here, wide variety. And then these guys here, I can tell that they wanna be like this guy here, and they're just never gonna be that. It's just, it's not gonna happen. I mean, there are the Joe Weider, got sand kicked in my face, kinda guys that are gonna turn their lives around and all that stuff like that. Speak to the guy who isn't the most overtly masculine kinda guy, and there he is right there, actually. That's the guy you have to talk to. The cameraman. Yeah, it's the cameraman. What would you tell that guy about his worries and concerns about masculinity now? There's too much emphasis on physical appearance. You know, I talked, the talk I gave earlier, with women, if it's just physical appearance, you need the 10, okay? Great in bed, okay? It's got a limited shelf life. Wake up, it's got a limited shelf life. When that's gone, and it will go someday, what do you got left? With guys, there's a great emphasis on physical appearance. But even if you're not born good looking, if you're not in great shape, there's still a lot of other areas you can develop. You can still become very, very successful. Again, women are seen as sex objects, guys as success objects. Boy, it's amazing what a big bank account can do to overcompensate. Money is sexy. It is, it's very sexy, right? So there's a lot of things guys can do. You're not gonna be me, they're not gonna be you, but there's things that they can do to build on, build on your strengths, build on your strengths for starters. Is intelligence sexy and masculine? Highly. In fact, I've attracted some very beautiful women on an intellectual. Yeah. Now if you, this is so true. If you can connect with a woman intellectually, okay? You make that connection. Yeah. Anything you want. Yeah. Anything you want. They say the way to man's heart is through his stomach. Yeah. A way to a woman is through her head. Interesting. Through her head. Most guys don't get that. And you have the advantage. Now, you're an imposing figure. When you're in a room, people know it. But you're on talk radio and not on television. Is there a video broadcast or is it all audio? Well, that's funny because people used to, they had an impression of what they thought it looked like before it was visible. That's what I was gonna ask you. And I would get, people would go, eh, you're not like what I thought you were gonna look like. Yeah. You know, and I said, what did you say? More like Rush Limbaugh. I said, you know, at the time I still had a forehead of hair. I said, well, because they're looking for fat and bald. I said, I'm not fat. I said, but I'm working on the ball. They got the ball down. I don't want the fat. But it is funny because I remember in one market I was working at the time back in Ohio. There was a guy, former Green Beret and he just hated me, man. He was gonna come down to the radio station and kick my ass, right? I said, I'm off front at noon. This radio station was downtown. People were looking out the windows. In the office, I said, bring it, bring it. He drove by and left. He called in the next day. He says, I was there. He says, I didn't realize you looked like the way you did. At the time I was 255. Yeah. And he's there like, then we became buddies after that. But they have a weird impression because they just hear you what they think you look like. Mark Levin, you know the radio talk show host, right? When I hear him, I see Danny DeVito. Yeah. No, no, no, Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci, that's the voice. It sounds like Joe Pesci. It doesn't sound, it's like, well, wait a minute. When I saw him, I was like, oh, that was weird. I've only known like two guys in talk radio ever that looked the way I thought they were going to look. There was a guy, Mark Guy Finley, back in Erie, Pennsylvania, sort of a mentor to me. I thought he'd look like Whelan Jennings. He looked exactly like Whelan Jennings. But, good. Well, you know, I guess Fox News has been around for about what, 20 years or so, a little more than that, I believe. I think 96, they went on there. Yeah, and they are the only news network that has brought on talk radio guys. So I'm seeing Mark Stein. I'm seeing Joe Pags. I'm seeing all the, I'm seeing the names. And for the first time in history, we're seeing the men that are behind these voices. When I lived in Orlando, I did a lot of work with Fox. O'Reilly brought me on over 20 times. There was a girl that was abducted down here, Jessica Lunsford. And he needed a point man down here to keep him up on stuff. And another friend of mine, Mike Gallagher, was a radio talk show host. Put him in touch with me. No Mike, well, yeah. And that parlayed itself into multiple appearances of Fox and Friends. And also on MSNBC, Tucker Carlson used to be over there. He'd bring me on every Friday, put me up against people like Rachel Maddow. In the last couple of years though, they've got away from that conservative versus. Yeah, the talking head. Yeah, yeah. And so those opportunities haven't presented themselves the same way they did in Tulsa, like when I was here in Orlando. I was telling some people this morning, before I moved to Florida, I thought all the crazies lived in California. When I moved to Florida, I realized, holy crap, this is ground central. Anything weird that's going to happen, it's happening here. Where do you see yourself in five years? Career-wise, still on the radio. Hopefully the brand expands. And I really think podcasts are going to be the way to go. You look at people like Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan's the greatest man. He's got a listenership that would just smoke anybody. It's amazing. It's amazing. And talk radio. He sets his own hours. I'm going to do, I don't know, three shows a week. Maybe two, depends. And his shows, one of the best shows, if you've never seen it, is when he had Alex Jones on. I saw that. Alex Jones, the day that was happening in real time, I tweeted, I said, the greatest radio event ever. It's happening right now on a podcast. And Alex Jones got liquored up. And then he had Alex Jones smoking pot. And it was just the best. It was the best. Because when you get people drunk and intoxicated like that, you get to see the real them. And it's like, oh, he is batshit crazy, man. How can people find you? Best way to do it is on Twitter. I'm very active on Twitter. Twitter.com, frontslashpc1170. You can friend me on Facebook at Facebook.com, frontslashpc1170. And you can find my podcast with ROLO. ROLO's on live every Friday. But we also podcast those. And we've got an archive. You can find those at talkradio1170.com. You heard it here. George Bruno, 21 Report, Orlando, Florida, with Mr. Pat Campbell. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it.