 All right, here we go. Three, two, one. Do you dream of one day publishing a book? Have you got this book in your brain? It's been circulating your brain for years. You've been thinking, damn, I know so much stuff. I've had so many experiences. I've got to put this in a book one day. Well, one day can actually be a lot sooner than you think. It doesn't have to be after a lifetime. It can be right now. You can actually write a book and have it published within weeks. Some people I know actually can get a book published within days. Maybe a little bit difficult if you're going with a traditional publisher, but to self-publish these days, it's certainly a lot quicker. I self-published my book, The 30-Day No Alcohol Challenge. You can check it out at 30daynoalcoholchallenge.com forward slash book, or you can search for it on Amazon. Today we're going to be talking with an expert in publishing books. A gentleman by the name of Casey Cease. He's out in Houston, Texas. He's the founder and CEO of Lucid Books. And he is a pastor of a church out there in Houston, Texas. And today we're going to be talking a little bit about how you, the listener and the viewer, can publish your own book. We're going to talk a little bit about how Casey came into this line of work. He lost a friend earlier on in his life, and that created a new purpose. And yeah, we're going to talk everything about books. So if you want to publish your own book, you're in the right place. Mr. Casey Cease, welcome to the show, sir. Thanks, James. Honored to be here with you. Looking forward to our time talking about writing, publishing, and all the fun that goes along with it. So what is your story? Just give us a little bit of context, Casey. A little bit of background on who you are. And then we'll move into some, you know, some ways on which we can publish books. Absolutely. That's great. The irony is I'm a dyslexic book publisher. So I didn't grow up loving books or loving reading or anything like that. I have ADHD, which I've learned now. I believe it was Dan Sullivan that calls it the entrepreneur's blessing or something like that. But it's definitely a way to keep things interesting for sure. So I didn't grow up liking books very much. I read a few on accident, but never really loved it. And so struggling with anxiety and depression, I think that went along with my learning disability that was undiagnosed and was in a car crash when I was 17. I'd been drinking and a friend of mine ran in front of my car and it resulted in him being hit and killed by my vehicle. And it was my fault. And at that point, 17 years old, my life as it was, felt like it was over. And I was suicidal. My parents put me in a mental hospital after I was released from the regular hospital. My friend's parents came to see me and they said, Casey, we want you to know that we're Christians and that we forgive you, which blew my mind. I had grown up going to church on and off, but never really considered myself religious or spiritual or anything like that. And so that kind of sent me on a journey of asking the big questions. I tell some people that at the age of 17, I had my midlife crisis and started asking more important questions following this tragic event. So from that point, I began reading the Bible, talking to people of different faith backgrounds. At the end of my senior year of high school, I placed my faith in Jesus. And so before you listeners worry about Bible thumping too much here, you're welcome to come to my church sometime in Houston and hear me rail on that. But today I want to talk about how through that journey of just trauma and tragedy, I began speaking to crowds as a part of my probation. And it went from there with this media picking up on it. By the time I was 18, 19 years old, I was traveling throughout the United States speaking to larger crowds. And after a while of doing that for several years, starting a nonprofit organization, someone said, hey, why don't you write your book? Why don't you tell your story in a book? And I'm like, man, I didn't relearn how to read until I was 22 years old. Didn't really care about writing or reading. And then all of a sudden I just kept getting asked for that. And so I had a mentor of mine who had self published a book through a self publishing company and had a really bad experience. And so he was so fed up that he was going to start his own publishing company. But he's also an executive at a hospital in town. And got promoted there. And so he came and met me at the time. We just had our first daughter and my wife and I, and we, you know, I was traveling and speaking full time. And he's like, hey, I'm going to start a publishing company. But then I got promoted. I can't. So I want to give you the publishing company. And I was like, what do I want to do with a publishing company? Who cares about that? And he started explaining to me this new idea of print on demand. It was over a decade ago and, you know, print on demand and helping publishers, you know, really creating an author centric type publishing company. And so from there was birth, the idea of lucid books. The word lucid literally means to see clearly, but we wanted to provide, provide a venue for authors to create books that are helpful for people and that really help people see life more clearly. And so that's the way we started. And to be honest with you, did not know what I was doing. But eventually wrote my book, Tragedy to Truth, which captures my story and was able to now help over 100 other people write and publish and promote their books as well. And so that's kind of where we landed with lucid books today. But did not set out really to be a dyslexic publisher by any means. Well, thank you for sharing your story. You've led quite a life from 17. What are you now? Are you in your four? I'm 38. I keep my hair gray so that as a pastor, people take you more seriously if you're older. So I haven't brushed in the color yet. But yeah, I'm 38 years old. So the last 21 years or so have been quite a ride. Now, the book that you wrote, what was it from Tragedy to Truth? Tragedy to Truth, yeah. Tragedy to Truth. Was that your first book? It was. Was that your self-published book? I did it through my company. And so I guess it's on a very true way I self-published it. But we call ourselves a partnership publisher or a hybrid publisher. And so we put a little more care and interest into it than a traditional self-published would. We have a full writing department, publishing department, promotional department, and really kind of help with international distribution, digital distribution. And this year we're rolling more aggressively into audio books as well. And so in a very true sense, since I owned the company, I did self-publish my book. But fortunately I had a team around me that helped me avoid some pitfalls too. What was the hardest part about writing your first book? What was the most difficult part? It made much more sense in my head than it did on paper. That was a thing. I don't know if you had this experience writing your book, but in my head the story was there. It was clear. And then I started writing it out and realizing that if I'm going to have people reading this who don't know me or my story, there's going to be a lot of gaps missing. And so getting my thoughts organized, getting it, you know, written in such a way that the transitions were there and all that required a whole lot of extra work than I had anticipated. It was a lot harder than I thought it was. I found the writing part of the book, the easiest part of the process. I found the going back and polishing and sub-editing because I'm super anal about correct grammar and spelling and I find things and commas in the wrong spots. And you know what? There's different chains of thought with this. I actually saw Grant Cardone speak on stage last year. Grant Cardone's a very kind of brash, loud sales person. And he's like, he's got a Texas accent as well, I think. And he's kind of like, man, I don't care about commas and spelling. I've probably got 400 spelling mistakes in my book. I don't care. I just get that thing out. I'm going to waste time worrying about commas and spelling. And I thought that was so interesting because I'm the exact opposite. I'm like, I want perfect grammar and perfect spelling. So that was a laborious process for me, making sure that everything was, you know, was good to publish. And then actually publishing it on Amazon, I had someone else do because I didn't want a part of it because I'm technically retarded. How are you? Yeah, I'm hopeless. I can't transfer content from one phone, iPhone to another, my computer crashes. I don't know how to operate things. I just, it's just one of those things. My wife's the same way, man. She still has a paper calendar. So certain folks, man, they just, they don't do that. But yeah, man, I think, you know, the editing part, that's why I use editors, people who are really great at grammar. For me, I'm good at telling stories. I'm working on two other books right now. And it's just, I'm just dumping it out. I think it was Anne Lamotte who put in her book on writing. The first draft is your crappy first draft. And the second draft is your edit. Your third draft is for your haters. And your fourth draft is when you're getting ready to go to publish. But the first draft, I think my wife does the same thing when she writes, she edits herself when she's writing. And so it takes her way longer to get stuff done. I, on the other hand, will just kind of word vomit onto the dock and then have to go back through and deal with all the red lines and grammarly and stuff. Other people speak their book and they send it off to a transcribe that he transcribes it. Yeah, we do that also. We have it for our business book, especially our business clients. They have, you know, I've found that most business clients will give you 15 to 20 hours. And so we do, we work with professional interviewers, journalists, things like that, interview the authors. We first create the outline of what they want to talk about. We set up strategic interviews. We take the audio and transcribe it through and then edit it. We basically like ghost writers sometimes edit out and get their books in place to maximize their time. We also do the same thing for pastors with their sermons. And so they preach a sermon series. We'll take the sermon audio, their notes and transcribe it and then edit it down for book formats called sermon to book is what we do. So there's a lot of services like that. Being learning disabled myself, I think through ways to help maximize people's time and effectiveness because most of the authors we deal with, their primary calling or desire isn't to just be a writer. They usually write a book to help build their business or their platform or their ministry. And so what we try to do is find the solution that fits best for them. Okay, so let's go through this chronologically, right? Number one, number one, why do... If someone's listening and they want to write a book, what is the step-by-step formula that they should follow from idea to first sale? Someone's actually buying it. Absolutely. Well, I tell people you should have started blogging yesterday. I think it was Seth Godin that said that, hey, if you want to release a book, you start blogging three years ago. And so I know people think blogs are dead. Some people do vlogging, video blogs. But I would tell them to start writing and start testing some of the content out there, whether it's through your email newsletter or through your blog or your blog and start testing that stuff out there because you'll start seeing things that are sticking. Because if you want to just write a book for yourself and it's like a vanity project, awesome. But most of us, when we take the time to write a book, we want to help other people. And we want to build towards a larger service or product that we have to help people there too. And so I would start planning it out. The next thing I would do is get it outlined and treat like buckets, buckets of information, put that together. Get your first draft out, go back through it. I use a tool called Grammarly.com which helps you kind of process through these docs and it can help you do some preliminary editing and then going from there. We've actually developed a free writing tips checklist that you can find at lucidbookspublishing.com that helps you go through kind of a 25-step checklist from getting your book from concept to actual creation and distribution. And so once you get your manuscript done, usually our authors connect with our writing services and our editors, either some of them we connect with and start doing what's called a bookwriting roadmap where we sit and interview them, help them get an outline together, especially if it's a first-time writing, and then help them and coach them along the way in writing. Once the manuscript's done, they've gone through it. The author has a couple of times. We then send it to our editing team. They edit the book and then we go to proofing. Now proofing is where the commas and the periods and all those things really get caught. And we fix that. Meanwhile, we're helping you with the branding process of the cover design, interior layout, all the registrations, and helping you think through a release strategy and then work from there. And so I heard you say you've had a few friends write and publish a book in a couple of days. That's bonkers. That's awesome. We try to do it within six months or less, most of the time, depending on all the editing work that goes into it. We have been known in high alert scenarios to release books much quicker. But typically what most of our authors take between six to eight months from concept to actual creation if they follow our steps and work with our team that way. How many words are we talking about? Like how big is a book? Sure. I would say, you know, I'm working on a smaller book right now. My target is 25,000 words, 20 to 25,000 words. I would say a good midsize book is about 40 to 50,000 words. When you start getting up beyond that 80,000, 100,000, it's a larger work. So I'm looking, if you're watching on the video here, I'm just pulled the first book at my, at arm's length here. It's Tim Grover's book Relentless from good to great to unstoppable. How many words would that book be? Can you see that there? Yeah. I would say that one probably is running probably about 50 to 60,000 words. Maybe 80 on the high end. Let me see the print on the inside and I'll get real nerdy for you guys. There we go. Oh yeah. It's midsize, good spacing, written for a good business guy. Plenty of room in the margin. I'd say that was probably 60 to 80,000 words would be my guess. 60 to 80,000 words. Yeah. And so how long would the, the actual writing process be? Do you think just from like, from start to finish? I think if you, if you, if you do your work ahead of time of establishing at least general outlines of what you're going to do, I would, I would treat it like, you know, 10, if you think of it this way, it's 12th chapter book. It's around 5 to 6,000 words a piece. And so I would start attacking each chapter and saying, okay, my goal right now is to knock out, at least get 3000 words to get the first skeleton in place. And then from there take the 3000 words and then, you know, think through stories that might help connect or illustrations or things and build upon it from there. And I've never had anybody complain, especially in nonfiction, that the book was too short. I've had plenty of people complain that the book was too long. You read some books, they put so much filler in there. It doesn't really help. And so what I, what I tell authors is think about who you're writing for and then write for that person, that target audience. I think that's a big mistake authors make when they start to write a book. And they're too broad on their audience. When I was writing my 30 day No Alcohol Challenge book, I have a big white board here in my apartment in Los Angeles. And I drew out the chapters and I, and I just, I didn't know how many chapters it would be, but I kept, I kept just one, two, three, four. And I'd literally just type from one, one down to like, I think it was 20 or something down the left-hand side. And then I just went introduction. My story will be chapter two, how to prepare for a challenge or why you should do a challenge, how to prepare and so forth. And I just, and I kind of spent like a good hour really outlining what I wanted I wanted to put in the book. And that was, that was so valuable because then it became very simple to just go in there and go, okay, what's chapter seven? All right, I've got to do that chapter. Great. Let's do that bank. Absolutely. Yeah. Versus, and now that's not to say that I didn't move some chapters around. And in fact, I think I actually migrated two or three chapters into one chapter. And I think I ended up with 24 chapters. Now I benefited from the fact that I've spoken about not drinking for so, so long. I have lots of blog posts about it. I've done lots of podcasts, interviews about it. So I kind of know my subjects and I know how to, you know, what people resonate with. And so for me it was, for a lot of the chapters, I just pulled old blog posts through it and gave it a little bit of a polish. And that was, and I was done. And then for other, for other chapters where maybe I hadn't spoken about a certain thing. I had an assistant research, like non-alcoholic drinks, for example, like what to drink instead of drinking drinking. And I hadn't really researched that much myself, but I had someone pull together like a whole lot of recipes and then I put those recipes in a chapter. So I didn't even write that chapter really. I had an assistant writer on my behalf. So there are, there are different ways that you can do this to try and speed up the process while also, you know, writing. And that's why I say with the blogging thing, you're working on your first draft when you're, when you're blogging about it. Just like you said, I mean, we have several authors that we've worked with. And we go back through with them, grab their blog posts, and then maybe do a few hours of interviews to flesh out a few of the concepts. And then our editors go in and edit it up and they're ready to go. And so it really depends on what is your goal with the book. For this one guy we're working with on his blog post right now, he speaks at conferences. And so he wants a resource to leave behind with folks that will help them really, you know, take next steps in what he's doing. But again, I think there are very smart, fast ways you can work on writing a book. You know, people are always overwhelmed when they think about writing a book and you've heard the saying, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time, right? And so I tell them, I was like, you know, like you said, once you have a list of your outline of your chapters, just pick one and start attacking it. And even if, you know, certain procrastinators, I tell them, set a timer for 15 minutes and just write on that topic. It can be the worst thing you write about. And then when you're done, I still a little bit from Stephen King, the pastor who steals from Stephen King, you know, you have halfway between in the sentence and stop halfway through the sentence because that'll help prevent writer's blocks. You'll pick up the next day and have to finish that thought. And so those are a couple of simple ways to really keep that momentum going for even people who are talking about writing a book. I don't know about you, you know, after I've written my first book and people find out I'm in publishing, they want to pick my brain because they're thinking about writing the book. And so they say, what's the number one thing about telling you? It's like, I know how hard it is for humans. We make it difficult on ourselves. Like, I've been talking about buying property here in the U.S. for like two years and only now, finally, for two years thinking about it, talking about it, and finally like moving ahead and probably going to buy property in the Midwest of the country and I've started that process. And now, from a decision seven days ago to do it, now already there's a potential property that's available to me and now I'm getting the bank to like to look at a look at a loan and I'm looking at finance. It's all this kind of stuff is already in motion and it's only been seven days since I made the decision, but it took two years of like, should I, should I not do it before I made that decision? Same thing with a book. Like, you've got a book idea in your mind. It's been like moving, you know, in your head for years, maybe your months, when's the best time to start it? Now. Now. There's nothing, you know, I mean, I use this app online called blank page.io and it's a little startup and it's very simple, but it lets you outline things, break it down, but it lets you set a word, word goal for typing. And there's something like, you know, hey, I'm going to type 250 words today on this subject and it's just really cool and a little green dot says, you know, your good congratulations and it makes you want to do more. But I think, you know, just like with your book, I'm sure with the 30 days of no drinking, being decisive about doing it is the first step. You know, I was talking to an author and he's like, man, I made it Facebook official, then I'm going to write my book and I say, okay, well, congrats, how much have you written? He's like, none. You know, and I'm like, okay, well, you know, who cares about social media? But, you know, if you're listening to this podcast or watching this video, encourage you, and tell you like, man, that's a great idea or not. I think it's a horrible idea. If they hate it, you might still should write it because it still evokes emotions, right? And here's the thing, if you hate writing, even though you want to do a book or write a book, go for a walk, take your iPhone or your Samsung or whatever you got, put in your earbuds, hit record on your recorder on the phone and then just literally record your book. So just start talking and just go, right, introduction and then just start talking about the introduction, right? And then you go, right, chapter one and then whatever you want chapter one to be and then just start talking it. Now, it doesn't have to be perfect, but what you'll find is that as you're walking out there in nature and you're speaking into the phone, you'll start to like get an idea of what you should be writing about. And even if you do and if you speak fallously, right, as if it would appear and writing in a book, save the recording, email it to a transcriber, say transcribe this and they will send it back to you and you will have pretty much the outline on the majority of a first chapter or second chapter of three. That's it. Simple. I do the same thing for blogs. Blog posts. If I'm inspired while I'm driving down the road about something I want to communicate or a blog, I'll just voice record it, send it off to be transcribed and then polish it up and get it out there. I think that's exactly right, James. Because a lot of people we work with are public speakers or business owners, realtors. We have one realtor that we're working with. So he works with Texas Farm and Ranch Land. And so he created this book on how to buy and sell Texas Farm and Ranch Land, send it to 300 of the top landowners in his county and has now sent 3,000 more copies out to top landowners. And he gives credit for over $250,000 of revenue of his own to the book. And that stuff, he just wrote down that he'd written blog posts about articles about and just compiled it all together. And the things that he takes for granted are the things that people want to know. And it's helped his business significantly. And so that's why, you know, entrepreneurs and business owners, speakers, pastors really ought to consider taking those ideas and doing something with them. Okay. So now let's just say that we've gone through this. We've written the book and we're ready to go and publish. What are the next steps, Casey? Yeah. I think you have to determine the route you want to go. One of the people that you realize with traditional publishing is it's a long process of publishing. And so you have to get an agent. Then you have to go make sure you get picked up by somebody. Then they own the rights to your book. And like in some of our genre, like in the Christian genre, some of the traditional publishers, it takes them anywhere from 12 to 24 months from signing the contract with the manuscript done to actually releasing the book. And so you're sitting there waiting for a year or two before your book actually comes out. On the other hand, like you did on self-publishing, you know, if you have a team around you or graphic designers and really your, your book is a part of how to lulu or create space or anything, you know, services like that. Those are the two primary ones. You know, get a designer to your cover, do the interior layout, register ASPN, all those different things and boom, put it on Amazon. Or you find a company like ours, that's a hybrid publisher that has the speed and flexibility of self-publishing but the quality and really the support of a traditional publisher. And we, you come with us to start the application process at lucidbookspublishing.com. You click under Get Started. And then what we'll do is we'll fill out a whole application because we don't, we only take about 20 to 25% of people who apply with us to publish with us but we help go through do a full review of your book, give you some feedback on what needs to be done. We recommend editing services that we think will help your book be great and then we put together a plan and then authors that like the plan and they pay some upfront, we invest some upfront and we make the book happen. So, I think there's a lot of different venues, a lot of pros and cons on the way you go. People love coming with us because as an entrepreneur myself, as a pastor, I realize that some people want to just do what they're great at and let other people do what they're great at. We've become really great and supporting and helping authors write, publish, and promote their books. And so, I would find the need kind of on the scope of what you're trying to do and get after it. Yeah, I did mine. I published, self-published using Create Space which means I took my manuscript centered to Create Space which is Amazon's self-publishing arm and then they format it. They stick, you know, the photos that you provide them in font type. They put the cover that you've tested and stick that in there. Yeah. And then you don't actually ever have to take hold of any of the inventory of your books. You don't need to buy the bookstore in a warehouse and then when people order and send it to them, they just, whenever anyone orders your book off Amazon, they just print it on demand. That's it. It's not like they're printing a thousand of them and waiting for people to buy them either. It's like someone buys it. There's some machine purchases that book and then it literally just sends it out to them. Amazon takes a cut. I take a cut from the sale price and then, you know, the reader has got your book. They're happy. I'm happy. I get paid a little bit. I strategically have put, you know, call to actions within my book directing people to come back to the 30-day No Alcohol Challenge site and join as a member if they like. And so I use the book almost is like a, what in online marketing terms call a lead magnet. Yeah, lead magnet. Yeah. So I'm not interested really in making that much money if any money from the sales of the book because I know that if I give the book away for free I will get people coming to my main program which is the 30-day No Alcohol Challenge program and they'll end up, you know, purchasing that program. So it's a good way if you're a business owner and you're wanting to get more clients or more members. It's like, well it's another form of marketing really. It's like a business card really. It validates you as an expert in your field. It shows that you're serious about the content you're talking about. You have to be serious if you're going to take time to make a book whether it's self-published hybrid published with us partnership published what we call it or traditional published you've got to be serious about your content and like you said I've given my book away for free through a click funnel ultimately so that for people who are interested in having me come speak at their event you know I'm fine to break even on the book or even lose a little money in the book because other things I do generate the revenue I need and so you know that's the way to think as a business owner and like you said for your membership site that's key that's huge for people to have an intro to you to establish a basis of trust and expertise and then get them to come to your event or to your membership site. What's the biggest mistake that you see people making in either the writing or the production of the book I think people get too short-sighted on how quickly am I going to recoup my investment from the selling of my book they need to start asking a better question how will my book be used to help expand my reach and what I'm trying to accomplish as a speaker myself I've spent $15,000 total in my book my book project and I've made probably three to four times that over the last three or four years speaking only part-time I'm full-time pastor full-time CEO of a company I mean got a lot of stuff going on but it's you have to look at the scope what you're doing I think one of the reasons we've had a lot of authors come over from CreateSpace was just due to quality and relationship where they can call our team and we find customized solutions for them but I have plenty of authors I recommend go over there because it's a great start for their goals and so I really think it depends on what know what you're hoping to accomplish with the book if it's just I want to write it let my grandma buy it awesome if you want to write it to help you get those goals but you know and I think people get they're short-sighted also on the investment on great design and on editing and stuff like that and so I think if you got those elements around you then I think you're off to a great start now once you've got the book how do you then market the book let's just say you got it done you've gone through that process you've written it published it it's up there how do you then make people aware that your book exists so that they end up buying your book so that's a part of what we do with each of our authors I'll give you some of the advice that people pay for so it's just for you and your listeners I also recommend you know thinking through doing some sort of presales campaign with something like Kickstarter because it's a very clear way for it to either succeed or not succeed and also help you fund the promotion of your book and so we've helped several authors we have one author it's about to close out in I think 43 hours he's raised over 14,000 dollars right now on Kickstarter towards this project we've had authors raise over 14,000 we've had authors raise 4,000 but we come in and help consult them to do it like a presales rather than hey if I make it I'm gonna write it but more of like since I'm writing this book we'd love for you to be a part because you want people vested in the project that's the first thing the second thing I would think through is strategically ask for help asking people to help spread the word getting yourself on other podcasts and speaking always helps getting the word out about your book give away as much free as you can one of the one of the things we've done before is called noise trade they have a section for books and noise trade you can give away the free PDF or Kindle or nook version on their EPUB or MOBI and in return people give you their email address and so they have some promotional things on there that gets the word out about that on your website make it a freemium first three chapters I think a lot of those factors work on book marketing and promotion and one thing I found really helpful James is to help other authors out spreading the word about their book kind of creating there's some parallel spaces like for instance your book on 30 days no alcohol and you find someone else that does 30 days better sleep and start working on how can we parallel together to help upsell each other's products and so that's the niche and what they're going after but I think there's a lot of mystification around book promotion and like the book Alchemist is one of the best sellers they give way over 10,000 copies for free you know and so I mean if you can afford to print up a thousand copies and go to conferences and give them out have a next call to action slip in there that's one way to do it if you can't do it digitally because overhead on digital next to nothing but your first book like for your you said you've done one book so far James yeah and so I would think through who are some parallel markets that I can go to as well as I wouldn't discount Facebook ads either I think there's there's some blogs that we've advertised on and had great success for people we have certain movers and shakers who will promote some you know some content for a week we've done that it really depends on who you're trying to go after and so who would you say James is your target audience for 30 days no alcohol people in their 30s the 40s looking for transformation in their life yeah and so I would start thinking okay where are these people looking well they're probably spending too much time on Instagram and Facebook and you start targeting you know I would do some video ads I would do some you know and then even think through like maybe you already do this but do like a free click funnel you know upsell where you know I've seen Russell Brunson do that from click funnels where you know seven bucks for the free book but it covers shipping and handling you know your cost of acquisition cost is for a subscriber you think through what does that look like and then take them on a journey I think I think people when they buy your book what we're hoping they'll do as an author and even as a publisher is that they're buying into a piece of your story or your product or what you're doing that they become a part of that and help develop community and especially people in 30s and 40s as a pastor I see a lot of those folks are pretty lonely and a lot of times they start out socially drinking or whatever they're selfish they're kind of apathetic they're losing their edge they're kind of wondering where their purpose is and so you press into those things and find some parallel ways to come market alongside of that and then bring them into your funnel and then hopefully I mean because the aim is like you said change their life make some radical life change All right well Casey Cease from Lucid Books thank you so much for your time Casey where can we find out more about you and your services in terms of publishing books on our website and you can go learn about all our different services on there I'm on social media Casey Cease on Twitter on Facebook on Instagram I would love to connect there Lucid Books is on those places as well anyway we can help you with writing, publishing or promoting your book we'd love to chat All right well Casey Cease thank you so much for your time sir I really appreciate it Thanks James appreciate you buddy