 Today we want to talk about dealing with grief, as I had earlier told you. So how do you exactly do you go through the stages? What are the signs to look out for? How do you help someone who's going through grief? These are some of the questions that we're going to answer today. And if you have any question that would like us to talk about, talk to us at one to five four channel using the hashtag why in the morning. So the guest joining us is a counselor. She's not new here. It's called Zepora Wanieki. Karebusana Zepora. Santisana. Glad to have you back. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Long time. It's been a while. Yeah. Yeah. But you're good. Yeah, I'm good. Thank God. Glad to see you. So we want to talk about grief. So first, what is grief really? Thank you, Stefanie. The simplest terminology we can use to describe grief, it is intense, intense sorrow. That is cost, all that is felt by anyone who is mourning, who has been left by a beloved one. So that feeling of intense sorrow, that hollowness, that emptiness, that sadness is what you call grief. Okay. Yes. So it's intense sorrow caused by the loss of a loved one. And is it only loss by death that causes grief? Oh, no. And defining grief, I want you to know that loss is not just loss of life, it can be loss of property. You had a very nice building and then all of a sudden it collapsed. You're seeing buildings collapsing all over, isn't it? That is loss. And those people are going to mourn, just they know more the other people mourn. It can be loss of status. Probably maybe you were married and then the husband asked for divorce or the wife. So you've lost your status. Maybe in a job, you are demoted. It's loss. You will mourn. Maybe loss of, something like what, relationship, a friend, loss of a pet, you know, in the western people mourn the pets. When you imagine our own, you don't mind about the dogs moving or, yeah, they mourn their pets. Wow. Yeah. So that is loss. So loss can be in many forms. Yeah. Not just a loss of life. Today we want to deal with the probably loss of life. Yes, sir. You've seen people have lost life all over here, isn't it? Yeah. You had stories in Mombasa and everything. And by the time those people come to further moat is happening in their lives, they realize that they are stuck. And I want you to know that when we shall be dealing with that later, depending on how well you're supported, you can move on or you can get stuck. Okay. Yeah. But people should not joke with, and people should not come and tell you, umelia sana, umelia sana. Stephanie, you see, we watch Hapu Mzike, you know Kenyans, we do things innocently and we, we want to help in all ways possible. But your helping is in the wrong way. Washing the situation. Washing the situation. When you go to Bari and you're comforting the, the, the mourning people and you're telling them, watch Hapu Mzike, he's in a better place. You know, none of those statements will sink to anyone who is mourning. Okay. But it is well, oh watch Hapu Mzike, after all, he was an old man, that's very wrong. Yeah. So loss is loss. Okay. And we mourn it the proper way. And let me tell you, you better mourn your loss. Why is it important to, to mourn? There's a difference between mourning and grieving. Okay. More or less the same, because when we use the word grief, we are touching emotions to it. Mourning is the whole process. Okay. They do not mourn. What they do, they pile those emotions. They pile them. You know, at the back of your subconscious, that is where your memory is. The good ones or the bad ones are piled. When you don't mourn a loved one, these are the people who have the, the most difficult time healing. They don't believe. And that is why you have, I think you've been to the barrio, maybe of a close person and you realize that at the mug, they will come and as difficult as it is, they allow the family members to be the ones, you know, to, to, to, to lock the coffin, you know, drive the, the, the last nail and you wonder, who are they torturing them? Why, why, why must you insist that they be the ones to throw the soil is very important. Very important. Okay. It is making them, it is the beginning of the healing. And it is bringing the closure. It is the beginning of bringing, you know, this person will know after all, so I am not waiting for this person to come back to us. Otherwise, if somebody dies and is buried and you're not involved in the whole process, at the back of your mind, you will keep on imagining that they are coming back to you. Therefore, you don't move on. Okay. So mourning is key. It is key. Your recovery. Very important. And for someone who's maybe can't mourn or, I don't know if there's a standard on how mourning should be done. You know, you've mentioned the throwing of the soil, you know, but someone who's sometimes your loved one dies, but you're somewhere very far, let's say in the U.S. and you can't travel to Kenya that time. So will you have, how would you mourn? Oh, there are different ways of mourning because nowadays I see with the social media era, everything is online, isn't it? So you realize that even during that barrier process, it was live, there was live streaming. So you were able to see even while you went there, they can even make for your very nice video, they view the body, you were part of the whole process. The only difference between you and us is that we are physically here and you are away, but you are part of the whole process. You are part of the whole process, you viewed the body as they were being, but online you did everything. Okay. It's not the best way possible, but still it has made you believe that this person is indeed gone. Yeah. So you, you part and part of everything. And even long after that, I'll come and discuss the coping strategies of this person who has been left because they are, you just have to, you know, mourning, you have to be patient with yourself. And I always tell people, Stefani, mourn your way, mourn your style. If your style of mourning is rolling on the ground and, you know, doing all those things, yeah, do them. The only thing to find and you don't hurt yourself, but mourn, cry. You know, I was listening to your former debate saying these things have been tossed, their eyebrows and they were not, I'm sure you've been to these funerals and you realize that people have really, you know, tons of makeups on them and I have nothing against it. I also do makeup there and so because you do not want to destroy them, you're mourning and you're having your handkerchief with you and you're doing like this, oh my God. Making sure you don't hurt yourself. You don't, you don't. That's not mourning. That's pretence. Wow. That's hypocrisy. I call it hypocrisy. There's no way you'd be mourning your mother or your father or your child or your husband or wife for, for that matter and you're carrying this kind of handkerchief to make sure, if you still careful that your eyebrows will come out, you're not mourning. You are not. Mourn your step. Well, that is mourning. All right. And for the people that are usually very protective of letting out, you know, showing their emotions to others, how do they mourn or is it, should they be vulnerable at that time because there are people who naturally can't be vulnerable to others? Yes. I began by telling you, mourn your own style. You see, our African culture, you agree with me that we are patriarchal. Patriarchal society is whereby men dominate and as this child is growing up, you keep on telling them. So this boy grows up knowing that you are not supposed to cry, but now in the event where your mother is dead, what else are we supposed to do? So you know, now you're mutu omenya maza ni mishi patu ya damu, you are seeing the veins you are forming. You are killing yourself and that is why statistically men die earlier than women because women have ways of venting out their emotions. This man is quiet alone, alone, not talking. If they have to talk about anything, what are some of the high cost of living, man da mano. Politics. Yeah, politics. They may not really discuss what is really ailing them. So even as a man, mourn, we are not there to judge. At this junary, we are not crying babies. We don't cry every other time. But when the situation demands that you cry, please do. It helps. Be vulnerable at that time. Yes. Okay. And what are the signs of someone who is grieving? Yeah, there are things that we look at, especially when we are dealing with grief cancelling. Grief cancelling and it's actually very important, we tell our Kenyans, don't just wake up, bury your parent or your guardian or somebody close to you and then on mandu meraukia job, you've not healed. So you need to go through the whole process. Some of the things that we look at to know someone is mourning, number one, this person has no energy, lack of energy. You feel at a magoti, it cannot support your body. You feel you don't have energy to do anything. Two, lack of appetite. You could have, you feel like nothing excites you anymore. Even your favorite meal, you don't want to eat. Other than that, some people will be the opposite. Increased appetite. Oh yeah, there are people when they are stressed, the stress someone can either make you beyond the extreme. You're eating too much, all you are depriving yourself. So someone can be eating like crazy, you're not feeling it. And other than that, a feeling of tightness in the chest, you are congested. You want to release emotions, but you're not sure to who. You just feel like there's something in your chest. And then in your stomach, some hollowness, you feel like your whole stomach is empty. This is a sign of anxiety. When someone is anxious, at the regional levels and you're the one standing there and 1,000 people are looking at you, how are you feeling? Butterflies in the stomach and everything, that is a sign of anxiety. Anxiety first of all is felt inside your stomach, in your belly. That is why some people will have some running stomach when they are very anxious. So anxiety sets in. This person is very, very anxious. You're not sure how to behave anymore. You're not sure on the bar your day what will happen, how will I behave, what you are anxious. Other than that, we always say that this person is sensitive, highly sensitive to noise. Remember you're dealing with someone whose emotions are upside down. So doesn't want noise, doesn't want TV, doesn't want radio or anything, anything, anything. Just a calm environment. Most of them will tend to sleep more. Sleeping has a way of soothing you. You feel like it is ending your problems. But again, we'll tell you in as much as coping strategies, getting quality sleep is good. Too much of it is not good. It will now be damaging you. So while this person is moaning, you're able to look at these signs. You see that this person emotionally is just not balanced. You're not there, you have no mood. You tend not to talk to people. You feel like you want to keep to yourself. You're depressed, you're stressed, anger. You know, at the slightest provocation, you feel angry. Because your whole system is not well. Those are some of the signs that this someone is griefing. This sign of the grief. Before we get to the stages of griefing, because I also know that there are stages. Are there signs, not signs, types of grief? Oh yeah, they are quite a number. We may not be able to go through all of them. But we can just highlight a few. This one grief we call normal grief. Just the normal one. We expect that you've received news so and so is dead. So and so has left us. And for purposes of this conversation, the medics and even the cancerans, we don't, you know, sugarcoat information. Because you want to hammer information right into you. So we don't come telling you, I'm a tuacha. You know, that could mean has gone to the supermarket to be back, right? Yeah. So you have to use the right word. You baby is dead. That's harsh as it sounds. The doctors will not come here telling you, oh, unfortunately, he has gone to be with the Lord. Oh, what if the Lord is Yeswatongarel? You believe he'll be there and back. So they have to use words that are harsh and that will, you know, impact that you will believe that sure enough, that's enough. So we have the normal grief. When you receive news so and so is dead, you feel that sign of loss. You go through the morning. That is just the normal grief. And after some time, you're done. You're done with the griefing. We have another grief we call chronic. Chronic. Meaning, you know, like chronic illnesses. So this person has not been able to grieve the normal way. We've been griffing for one month, two months, three months. You know, okay. We do not have a specific amount of time. I wanted to ask that specific period of griefing. No, no, no. We don't have a specific amount of time that we allocate for grief. Why? Grief is so individualized. It's so personalized, right? For example, if you look at somebody, depending on the closeness between the person who has died and this person who is left. For example, it's a spouse. It's a child. It's a parent. This person might tend to grieve more. As opposed to you, who is griffing your great-great cousin, you know, for the line cousin, they are atahuku unamuju avizuri. So people will tend to grieve more for closer relatives. Other than that, the cause of death, you know, they are dead that have really prepared you. For example, if someone has been in the hospital for quite some time, quite some time and you know, every day you go to the hospital they will be shocked they will be shocked when they come out to watch her. In fact, when you see a call, you see like, it has somehow prepared you. It is not the same intensity with somebody who was hit by a car. He was hit by a normal person. He was hit by a normal person. He was hit by an over speeding car and died on the spot. You might, you know, mourn more because while this one it prepared you. We call it anticipatory. We are coming to that category, anticipatory grieve. While one prepared you, the other one did not prepare you. So you might tend to mourn more. Think of even these people who have seen the parents or the children die in a very cruel way. You know, like for example, the person was murdered. Killed in a very brutal way. These people will mourn more. They feel like, oh my God, where was I? Why was I not able to save this child? This person, you feel? So they will grieve more. As opposed to this other person probably who was 105 years old has lived and seen the generations and everything and died peacefully. We come to celebrate life because we have felt like there is always that pain there is always that but of course now at 106 years old everybody says let her rest but now this death of somebody who just graduated and got his first job it becomes very sad. So we say there is no more grieve there is chronic grieve. Then we have that anticipated grieve. This is somebody you are seeing deteriorating day by day. When you are anticipating you are anticipating psychologically you are prepared. That is anticipated. So these people do not grieve. On the material day they are told he is dead or she is dead. They begin griffing much earlier. Every day when you are in ICU every day when you are in condition of death blood level blood pressure is misbehaving up and down and they have prepared you way in advance. We call it as anticipatory griff. There are quite others. This is complicated griff. This is griff that you have not been able to overcome. We call it complicated. The moment you are going to come out of it more emotion sets in. The moment you are going to more emotion sets in and many more because there is even this griff where you find that when you are about to finish another griff it sets in. Before you finished burying your father then your mother died. While you are mourning your mother the other sister died. So this has just piled and this type of people we recommend them to a griff therapist. Did you know there is a griff therapist? No I am just hearing it. When griff cannot be handled by the normal counselor because now it has become complicated we advocate that you go to a griff therapist and they will be able to walk with you through the journey with all the patients in this world because those people they need patients enough of it and for purposes of this conversation we tell Kenyans the much you can do to a griffing person to a mourning person is not necessary advice they don't need any of it. The advice is don't give them advice they don't in fact they are not listening the much you can do as a listening just let them talk and vent allow them to vent allow them to talk when they break down give them a handkerchief listen to them sometimes you may not even have solutions but you are there to listen that's all they need if they can repeat their stories to as many people as possible that is their healing right this particular one I think it's called this enfranchised griffing the one that is not really acknowledged or not really taken as seriously as others for instance miscarriage and that's the type of loss still I'll speak about that because I've dealt with quite a number of victims let us just put it this way loss is loss doesn't matter and what is lost to you is not what is lost to me if you lose 10,000 you might mourn if another person loses 100 Bob they might sweep the whole house looking for you you get it so loss is loss this person you've given an example of someone who has suffered miscarriage in fact those are the people who have not learnt how to deal with them unfortunately picture this lady who goes to the hospital has had a miscarriage goes to the theatre they do the process and then is admitted in the ward which one? maternal ward next bed is a lady who has given birth to twins and their relatives are coming a lot of unji a lot of jahe a lot of fruits and everything they are there they are celebrating this baby they are supposed to be feeling a failure you feel inadequate you feel the world is crashing you don't even want to visit in the hospital because that's a form of loss so there are losses in the society that are not treated as loss but indeed they are the impact is the same the process of mourning is the same and if this person is not taken good care of they might get to depression when we are doing the stages of loss that is one of the stages the next one yes the stages there was this American psychologist called Kubra Ross Kubra Ross came up with the stages of loss and was able to analyse all the patients that came to him they were going through the same stage the first one we call it denial denial the moment you receive a phone call and you told so and so is dead the first thing your ego will do is to deny you say no it can't happen we just talked this morning it can't happen I served them food yesterday night it can't happen so the first thing is to deny you deny and deny and deny it is a way the ego we call them the ego defensive mechanism it's a way the ego protects itself so the first one is denial the moment you deny and deny we can talk about people with chronic illness someone comes and tells you ah your parent or someone close to you has cancer the first thing is to say no no no no no and in fact you even hate that hospital and you want to seek another opinion from a different a different hospital and practitioner so you will come to believe well later when you had it maybe the third or the fourth time so deny is the first stage in the news of loss they deny after deny which might take hours to several days you go to the second stage anger you deny then you go to anger anger you are very angry angry you are angry at everyone this is where when I am consoling someone depending on the questions they are asking me I am able to assess what stage they are at so if you meet this person who is telling you but me I know where was God so that person is in the second stage what kind of scene had I done that you did not reveal to me that my soul and soul is dying that person is in anger stage they are angry at God for taking away their beloved one then they are angry at situations they are angry at people if it was a nurse who was maybe giving medication why didn't you give enough medication they feel like you are the one who failed they are angry at the ambulance which maybe could have been driven faster to save their life they are angry at everyone that was in the scenario so this is the stage when someone is angry and we always tell people while you can judge other people in their sober mind this is a statement made by a morning person because if for example Stephanie you are married and God forbid so you are married and the husband dies the mother in law in the process of mourning will accuse you and it is something that actually happened it happens it is very common in the society so this is something why didn't you give enough medication and you tried your best maybe it is only one day you are late and maybe she gets to find out that you are late in preparing a meal but she will say are you getting it so do not blame them when something happens you are trying to it has to be someone it has to be someone who will carry the blame so they will accuse the doctors the hospitals the ambulance they are angry and I always tell people when you are going to console a person preaching to them may not work at that time they are angry at God they are not sure whether they want to hear anything else from that God who has really made them be bruised so they may not even listen to you someone because they have issues with this God you are preaching so after you are done with anger you go to the third stage you call it bargaining bargaining stage and bargaining may start way earlier for example in anticipated grief where you are saying someone is deteriorating the condition is being bad every day while they are bargaining they might come and say something like mungu God if you preserve so and so's life I will serve you forever this is when you give all the promises in this world God if you preserve this person God if only you bring us our baby back you will do this you promise from here to Tabuk to and back but you are only bargaining but after your bargaining stage all these stages after they are not long they are short periods the longest period of them all is what we call depression so you started with denial you came to anger it is not working so you come to what we call depression and depression is the fourth stage and it is the longest in morning period it can last even way from depending on how well you supported it can be six to eight weeks and back is it a stage that everyone has to go through yes everybody as long as this person you know when you are talking about morning for example right here you hear you hear somebody dying in Shakahola probably because you don't know them you have not mourned them but the people who are in the immediate you know the immediate relatives neighbors and friends they mourn they have to go through this stage you get it and so while you are at depression this is now when the height comes and I started by saying even biblically people used to mourn for 40 days according to the holy scriptures but now that does not mean that that is all that is what they recorded there are people who will mourn for one month two months three months six months one year down the line they are still mourning but now I always tell people depending on your support system because if you are well supported you will outgrow depression quicker than somebody with no support alright and I have also seen somebody this is a stage that can destroy you actually it is very very essential if you do not mourn the right way you realize that these people I have seen a case whereby a young man lost a brother a twin brother and you know the way our culture is so I am talking about not just a brother a twin and you know at the same time you will mourn so you people you are intertwined like this and the child dies the boy dies and they are in high school these boy did not the remaining twin did not get the right support and because of that he deteriorated his grades and his everything not only did they lose him because now where he is I do not know we call it psychotic or narcosis but he is he was not able to console himself compose himself back to life he did not move on so that guy is seen and everything so it can be that bad somebody was healthy but did not get the right support system you get it so while you are at depression one of the things you feel is emptiness very empty you have no good reason to wake up the following morning no proper reason why you would want to wake up and go to work work for who what is the meaning of life when you are at depression you realize that life is meaningless you realize that I was supposed to these people do like this they wake up maybe if it's a husband who has died they prepare the water they shower and everything they put the suit there and then they realize he is not there he is not there then they cry themselves out are you realizing so they are now feeling the impact the emptiness and this is where I tell people part of coping strategies do not be very quick to make a major move major move like for example you want to now fit in the shoes of this person I know of people whose their parent died in 2016 and it is this year 2023 that they have managed to go and put their mothers items together the clothes and donate them nobody was ready to go and open that wardrobe how do you take your clothes immediately are you getting it be patient with yourself while you are morning so at this stage of morning you feel empty you are depressed there is no hope you don't feel like you have the energy to do anything not to eat, not to watch movies not to go out, you don't want friends you want to keep to yourself now this is a very dangerous stage and on that for someone who has a child let's say you have lost the breadwinner you yourself as a mom you are going through depression and then there is a kid there so how do you even let the kid go through the grief process should they be told the truth and set up you don't tell the kid your dad is no more, he is never coming again so how do you handle that situation very important and thank you for that question let the child be part of this morning process let them know just the way we engage our children the moment you have a new member in the family you let them be part of it they own that they have a small brother or a small sister, a new baby at home you let them own that process their rights are they are being infringed they are acting last born you let them own the whole process so that they can love the baby let them own the whole process of mourning it is okay to cry and tell them I'm crying because when so left us let them own otherwise they will come to hate you way later or you realize it in class as their performance is deteriorating because you did not even allow them they also have as many questions as you have you know there's not much difference between an adult and a child maybe the brain capacity but they have the same emotions they are mourning, they are feeling they are not seeing their daddy or their mother so allow them to be process of the mourning it is going to view the body let them view the body it is going for that process where people come for devotion, for prayers and everything let them be there it is doing a neurology involve them they are writing what they are going to read there let them mourn so that as you are healing they are also healing otherwise you might pretend that you want to protect them while you heal they start theirs and so you will never come out of that grief alright now all this process before we now get us to the coping mechanism for us to finish and by the way after you are done with the depression you will now go to the last stage we call it acceptance so anyone who has had a gone depression successively irrespective of the amount of time you have taken you go to acceptance acceptance is where you feel like Mahasbad was a pastor now he was running a church the congregation is there and now the incoming pastor you fit in in the shoes he was an MD in a certain company now I am the new MD the CEO of this he was running this business now the new person in this business so you move on he is not coming back to us now life has to continue that is acceptance but if there are people who will be stuck at the depression stage and that is it so if you get help you will move to acceptance stage ok and I want to ask about the morning process all the stages I know some come earlier but does most of it come after you have buried your loved one because I know before you bury the loved one you have to support the people people visiting every evening there is people in the house it is full and then after the burial you are usually alone back to normal and I think reality sets in so is it worse after it becomes worse after during this time you realize you have been given the news your bargaining and everything but reality hits you after you are the first person to get hurt and then after that we are Kenyans we do everything in haste so to memorize the Kurshams Changa we are very hungry, we are looking for food we are looking for food we are looking for food we are looking for food by the end of the day people start leaving after that when you are in Europe and you are alone you are left alone to sink that information you come out of your house, you see a fresh grave outside there so depression and these stages most of them will come way after that is when the weight of the matter is now how does one cope coping strategies and actually this is very important so that we are able to tell people even those people who have got to identify their bodies it is very sad very sad I always imagine you can never never tell somebody that I understand you can never understand you can only imagine so I try to imagine their pain your code to identify your your loved one is not a very good site now one of the coping strategies that we tell people is number one, agree to mourn agree to mourn take it and believe it that it has happened and we are going to mourn it that is one strategy agree that it has happened then number two we always tell people be part of a support group support means it could be your family you could be coming together you hold devotion, you pray as you eulogize and remember the departed person so as part of a family be part of a support group by support group I mean like you've always had wajane the women who are with us they come together, they have an organization then you can also be part of a support group whereby you join other people who are also similarly having similar experiences and believe me Stefanie the moment you listen one, two, three, four, five six people's experiences you realize that yours was better for everybody because they are the worst one so you realize that you have died and your husband was buried and that was it he was maybe probably HIV so the wife was left with it or the husband was left with it so he's been left with the condition and also some children to nurse so this one died and left a court case are you getting it so the moment you analyze several cases you realize that you are better off and it helps you other than support group it is good that you program yourself in a way that you can do a journal write a journal write your feelings, record what you're feeling that day towards that person record the beautiful memories you had with this person like maybe one time it took us to the beach another time she maybe paid for her flight to where their beautiful memories we had with the department write them down it's part of healing if you have his pictures with you and you are okay because most people are not okay they don't even want to see that photo if you can keep an album of the beautiful places we visited together the better it's part of healing and accepting that he is gone occasionally maybe at the end of every year you can do an anniversary but again you have to be prepared anniversary might trigger some emotions that you had so that is the time you need enough support out of it and of course we tell people above every other thing there are many other things that you can do because part of it is taking care of yourself in fact it should come as number one to make sure you take care of yourself eat well eat a balanced diet make sure you're feeding well because if you don't feed well illnesses comes in people that are dealing with grief or mourning butters the immune system I don't know whether you knew that there is a syndrome we call heart heart break syndrome it's a syndrome that comes to people who are mourning dealing with loss it has similar characteristics and similar symptoms like a heart attack so this person the characteristic you would see in a heart attack are with this person because they are mourning so allow your body to heal eat well sleep well do exercises if you are able just the simple ones make sure you're taking care of yourself and if you're not now able to cope with all this see a cancer see a therapist let them walk you through that journey be part of a devotion be praying for the person for everything for your inner healing doing devotion helps in inner healing finally for the people that sometimes it's hard to know how to handle someone dealing with grief and you've alluded to it several times but maybe you can put some more emphasis on it what should someone do when you have someone grieving could be a friend, could be anyone thank you it is very important that people know because there are people who don't know how to treat somebody you're clueless you don't know how to treat the person in crying I'm not saying it is bad but we expect that you're the stronger person there are scenarios that will allow you to join in crying anyway because of where you find yourself but now part of what you'll do as number one as number one be listening, be a listener and a good listener listen to this person let them power themselves to you let them even tell you that you're a good listener that you're a good listener that you're a good listener all these are their fears so listen to them they need somebody to listen to that and as you're listening do not be judgmental at the moment my mom is crying and she's watching the music and allow the person to mourn and mourn her way so be a very good listener the other thing you can do is listen to the person who is mourning and you realize that you're a good listener often to go to the kitchen prepare something for this person sit the person there and drink together assist when you're in bed throw out go to your bedroom try to find out the way you would care for a patient is the way you would care for this person because I have just told you loss deals with your immune system it brings it down and when the immune system is down definitely these other funny funny diseases will crop in so before we don't want to deal with mourning and then with hospitalization at the same time so help this person be themselves help them clean up, tidy up the house they are experiencing lots of visitors help them in taking care of the guest you can be sure that your mother your daughter and they are mourning, you stay hungry so offer help and I thank God because religious organization they come in handy when you're in Saidiya and search and even way after if you want to listen to music if you want to listen to music go and visit this person as regularly as you can there's a question that asked and I want to ask that before we close why does it come years later, grief you think you had healed and then one day you just wake up and you feel terrible I will say this, we began by saying depending on the course of grief, then in the course of death and the relationship between the person who died and the person who is alive and the relationship you had grief intensity will either be high or low so if you did not go through proper steps of mourning you might think you dealt with that problem only to come and realize that way later it reservices so that is why we advise that go through the proper steps of mourning for example let's say maybe you had a court case that was to be had next year July but the person who was dealing with it has died now be sure at that time your emotions will be up and down this was the only witness we had now he is gone so again you will so depending on the the way you were helped to cope with that person if you were not properly helped if you were not properly helped if you were not properly helped it will always be service you even hear people saying I am not a person I am a person I am a religious may not necessarily be that it could be that your subconscious subconscious can make your dreams up so you are really thinking so much about this person until this person appears in your dreams thank you very much because you give out to your social media handle alright alright so my final say is that grief is no more allow yourself to grieve and grieve the right way be patient with yourself don't even wonder why can't I move on even after it is a month also be very easy on yourself and if you are not able to do it please see a therapist we are going to help you so my social media I am Zipora Facebook Zipi Wanieki and YouTube Zipora Wanieki alright thank you very much Zipora always a pleasure to have you share such amazing insight alright that has been Zipora Wanieki a counselor speaking to us about dealing or coping with grief I hope you have taken something from it now we are going to take a short break and then we will be right back with entrepreneurship alright see you on the other side