 Okay, good afternoon everyone. This is the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development. It is Friday, February 4th. We are back or beginning our day at one o'clock today. We spent our time on the floor this morning, started an hour later because of the weather, and then went to lunch. And so now we're joined by many people here to testify with us today on H406. And so to begin with, we have Weiwei Wang. She is here to talk to us from the Vermont People's of Color Network. I'm very anxious to hear what you have to tell us and really appreciate your ability to join us. I know it was difficult. You have other things that you have to do so. Welcome. Glad to see you again and look forward to your testimony. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. For the record, my name is Weiwei Wang. I am the Director of Operations and Development for the professional Vermont Professionals of Color Network. I would like to acknowledge that I am calling in from unceded Abenaki lands. On behalf of the Vermont Professionals of Color Network, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of our member network on the issue of racial and social equity in economic opportunity and cultural empowerment. I'd like to introduce our organization. The Vermont Professionals of Color is a statewide organization that is built on the desire to help BIPOC and people of the global majority living in the state to advance their prosperity in whatever way they choose to define the word, whether it be economic, cultural or social prosperity. Our goal is to be the conduit in which the water or resources flow to the people. I believe that systems that are failing communities of color fail the entire state. Our goal is to eliminate the economic and professional gaps that exist as a result of systemic racism. Because prosperity starts with opportunities to climb the economic ladder. We are constantly striving for a new era of professional mobility, promoting entrepreneurial ventures and nurturing our community by creating safe spaces for connections within the community and through networking, education and advocacy. Specifically, we work to empower youth support entrepreneurs and promote personal and professional development within the BIPOC community. I believe that creating environments in which the people of the global majority feel a sense of belonging is critical to this work, because it has implications on the future of the state. As such, I'm grateful to be sharing the perspective of the network on age 406 with this community today. The state of Vermont is home to over 65,000 black, indigenous peoples of color, and people of the global majority, as of the most recent US census. That is an increase of about 120% over the 2010 census. The bill noted that BIPOC individuals in the state are on average younger compared to whites. And it's a hopeful sign that this number continues to grow. But it also makes me think of all of my friends with promising careers who have left the state because they didn't feel like they belonged because it is hard to live in the state as a BIPOC individual due to the historical and systemic racism that was noted in the BIPOC and people of the global majority have not had access to the same privileges as white individuals in terms of generational wealth, but also in terms of generational knowledge that that wealth can purchase. For example, BIPOC businesses have asked us to create a playbook of how to start a business because there is no generational knowledge for this. Access to resources in all forms of the word is critical to the empowerment and advancement of BIPOC and people of the global majority in the state. And what does access look like. Here I refer to the definition of access adapted from public health literature, we can frame access as having six critical critical components, accessibility, affordability, availability, acceptability, accommodation and awareness. When one component is missing such as affordability accessibility is difficult sometimes impossible, especially for the BIPOC community. For the BIPOC community access has been denied historically structurally in all the ways that it can be. As you are all considering this bill please consider that to offer access to these resources, whether that is personal safety professional professional personal development. Grants, land access, cultural arts, please consider the current realities of denied access for the BIPOC community and how this bill will help to address these gaps. I'd like to share some personal and network member experiences of this denial of access. I personally grew up in South Burlington, and in a recent forum I spoke on how my school counselor never informed me about the PSATs, which is a critical component of gaining merit scholarships. In that same forum, a colleague and friend of mine noted that her black son in a different school district and more recently was also not offered this information about the PSATs from his counselor. In my case, the counselor assumed that because I am Asian, I had access to access to this knowledge. In my colleague's case, her son's counselor assumed that because he is black, he did not need access to this knowledge. This is systemic racism at its best. It is affecting the lives and futures of Vermont's youth of color. Access is also harming our business community. The lack of generational wealth and generational knowledge makes it difficult if not impossible for BIPOC businesses to start and to succeed. Communities of color are crowdfunding and passing around the same dollars over and over again because of the inequities in the banking system and the lack of generational wealth available to them. One member who had a successful pop-up business was denied access to capital loans over and over again because she is young, she is a woman, and she is black. Despite the overwhelming evidence that she had a profitable business idea, that she had the overwhelming support of the community, she lost out on multiple opportunities for brick and mortar location because she did not have the generational wealth or the backing of financial institutions. Like I said, she ended up turning to crowdfunding and now she is a thriving and successful business owner. I was also recently assisting a BIPOC business owner who was applying for statewide grant opportunity. This member was daunted by the questions being asked in the application, and they didn't know where to start. They didn't have the generational knowledge. To help, I offered to type while they talked about their business. Together, we worked to edit the spoken words into prose and work together to ensure that they had all the documentation that they needed to complete the application. This effort took three days to complete. Why is that? Because this individual was the head of their household, taking care of their family, their children, while also running a business. We spent a Sunday and two weekday evenings together to ensure this application was completed in time. Yes, the grant was offering support systems, but they did not operate at the hours that accommodated this individual. This becomes an access issue. Access is also impacting trust and willingness of the BIPOC community to use the resources offered both publicly and privately because there's a lack of representation at the leadership level. There is a great need to provide safe spaces for the BIPOC community, inclusive of individuals with the same lived experiences advocating at the leadership level based on actual needs. This is an issue of accommodation and acceptability of the community, and this is actually represented in the bill itself. I would like to direct attention to page 17 lines 11 through 15, which states, quote, The Department of Economic Development in collaboration with the Vermont Economic Development Authority, the Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies, and the Vermont Small Business Development Center and other relevant stakeholders shall design and implement the BIPOC business development program. While the work of these aforementioned organizations are admirable and have benefited Vermont communities, these are white led organizations that do not have a clear understanding of the realities of what it means to be a BIPOC business and do not have the relationships with or their trust of the community to truly support their needs. We would like to propose that this bill names specific BIPOC stakeholders and organizations such as the Vermont Professionals of Color Network, and any of the other amazing BIPOC led organizations represented here in this committee today to help with the design and implementation of the BIPOC business development program and to ensure the community's voice is represented and to further support safe spaces for BIPOC voices for who knows the community better than the community itself. So with the proposed amendments and the creation of the Department of Cultural Empowerment and Economic Advancement and we implore this newly created department to work with organizations starting from the ground up, like the Vermont Professionals of Color and the other organizations both represented here and presented here today to ensure that the efforts of this department are in line with the actual needs of businesses and individuals who are identified as BIPOC and people of the global majority in the state. Thank you all so much for your time and consideration for these for these thoughts from the Vermont Professionals of Color Network. I'm available to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you way way. Any questions from the committee. Mr. Chair, just shout out because I know you can't see us really. So way way thank you and when we talked last year, the Vermont Professionals of Color Network was really gaining some momentum. And I understand that the organization now has really taken off. And, and so could you tell us about the growth of your organization and what's happened since the past year. That might take some time. I just want to remember what time of year I guess it was around this time of the year that we all first met. And since then we have become a 501 C3 organization. We have gained in membership, all thanks to our communications manager who has done a lot of outreach throughout the state, whether it's through social media or direct contact. We have been supported through donations, private donations, public donations and public grants. So right now we are working with the Vermont Community Foundation on an effort to provide BIPOC led organizations with participation and how to write grants period as nonprofit organizations I think it's really difficult to navigate the funding landscape and so we are offering that at no charge we are actually paying participants to participate in that. We are also working with the Vermont Small Business Development Center on the community navigator pilot project and through that we are looking at the small business environment and what does that mean for BIPOC business owners. We will plan on releasing reports and connecting various resources to the community. We're also offering you know our bread and butter is the networking we're increasing the number of events that we hold whether it's virtual or in person so there's a lot going on we've revised our website so if you want to visit I can drop the link in the in the chat vtpoc.net we have expanded our offerings to include a jobs board so that, you know, our membership can see what is actually available out there. And that support the community itself, and we plan on expanding the website even beyond that this year so if you have any other specific questions I can about our growth I'm happy to answer that. That's just very helpful to know if that's an impressive list of organizational achievements so it's a congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, way way we appreciate your time. And you're more than welcome to stay on and listen as much as long as you can. Thank you. Senator Rom Hinsdale good afternoon thank you for joining us this afternoon we appreciate you joining us I know you have committee meeting to get to but we appreciate you. You're willing this to let way way go ahead of you. Thank you. Well thank you Mr Chair and thank you committee for the record Senator Keshia Rom Hinsdale from Chittenden County and it was really a privilege to have way way go first so as further expanded on with the question I could hear all the great things that the Vermont Department of Labor is up to I've certainly felt the benefit and you know I know many many others have to so I'm happy and proud to let her go first. I'm here today you know as a as a free agent you know as someone who who is in the Chamber and hopes to receive this bill. I am also on the committee of jurisdiction Senate Economic Development Housing and General Affairs. So you have at least one champion to help move this bill on the Senate side and I believe I can pick up others as well. You know I would also say I'm here as a member of the government accountability committee, and would send the co chair of the social equity caucus to say that absent strong data to demonstrate how many dollars and resources are getting to I would pause it to guess that it is an under representation of their, their percentage of the population in Vermont, we know that billions of dollars have come into the state in the form of business support grants, you know, loans, other dollars through other programs, and given some of the barriers that you've heard and some or that I want to share. You know, I don't think if we had, say, just a billion 1.25 billion come to the state last year in economic recovery dollars. I don't think, you know, potentially 70 to 100 million, you know, went to two people of color, even though they're about 7 or 8% of the state population. So, you know, this is a bill I think that makes sure that the resources are getting where they need to go to the communities that are often most impacted. You've heard I think some of the statistics that are in the, the bill itself, I thought the drafters did a really good job trying to make that a comprehensive understanding of some of the disparities, just to emphasize again, we have a 50% difference in home ownership between black and white Vermonters that is a very deep disparity in the country and I believe the bill says something about of the thousands of homeowners in Burlington, for example, only 4% are BIPOC to underscore that only 18 homeowners period are black homeowners in Burlington out of the thousands of homeowners that is a deep and frightening under representation and demonstrate something more than a lack of wherewithal to access opportunities for home ownership there is a lot going on underneath the surface. You've probably just to underscore again with land access people of color, own about 0.06% of land in the state. So, and the bill I think does a very good job trying to spell out that this isn't simply because people of color aren't seeking land access there are huge barriers in access to capital, and the federal government itself has a history of not supporting black farmers and black landholders, and instead giving those dollars and resources specifically to white farmers and white landholders. So, you know, I just want to underscore that as a, as a woman of color to brown woman, you know, we're truly talking about a much deeper disparity for black Vermonters specifically. I, you know, want to be able to speak to that, as some may know and I'm happy to pass this along. Karn Cross, who's no stranger to this committee and I looked at access to capital for people of color and women just before the pandemic, and many of our institutions are credit unions, etc. They are trying to help BIPOC Vermonters and marginalized Vermonters still have less than a one or 2% success rate at getting capital to people of color and new Americans. So, you know, we also have a problem even with the organizations that are trying to, or are supposed to get access to capital specifically to those who are marginalized or have historically not been able to access capital. And finally, in terms of huge disparities, language access is a very deep and growing problem in the state I have S 147 in Senate government operations that were advancing which is a language access bill for the whole state but as some of you may know, at the beginning of the pandemic, especially as economic and health related supports were rolling out. That information wasn't in other languages for weeks. And when it wasn't other languages, it was often volunteers providing video interpretation and translation, because people had gone so long without knowing where they were supposed to get help, and what they were supposed to do. And as folks may remember a lot of those programs were first come first serve. So people of color and particularly those who don't speak English as their first language were put at the back of the line automatically. And when we were in the pandemic, I would call the federal delegation and talk to them about things like wet ink signature requirements that people who don't have a printer, can't print something out, sign it and get it back to the federal government it's all in English, we're already struggling as well with additional barriers to accessing some of these early resources and continue to have those issues. Other, you know, other examples I would say mean we've looked a lot at unemployment, a lot of people of color and particularly women of color left their place of employment. At a time when they thought you know I'm going to strike out on my own and start my own business it's a pandemic I want to, you know, create my important we've seen their studies around the country that show that people of color have started their businesses in the pandemic, and many of them that I've talked to anecdotally in Chittenden County left places of employment where they face discrimination. You know, as I learned much more so during the course of the pandemic, if you face discrimination, even if you have an open discrimination suit, you're not eligible for unemployment. So you're might maybe trying to open your own business at the same time that you don't have a lot of other tools available to you, if you have a discrimination case pending. I would just end by saying, you know, when we, when we looked at the BIPOC business set aside early in the pandemic I wasn't a legislator but I was talking to your former colleague on the committee, Representative Gino Sullivan who I worked really hard for that $5 million and two and a half was for people of color two and a half was for women owned businesses. Some of you may not know this but something that I found quite disturbing happened which is, as soon as that program was set to roll out. And the Vermont Community Loan Fund was the back end support for getting those loans out to forgetting those grants I should say out to folks. It was right in the aftermath of the murder of George, George Floyd and the Vermont Community Loan Fund felt like they wanted to put their, their personal take on what they could do to help people. They rolled out with black background and white lettering, we stand in solidarity with Black Lives Black Lives Matter. Here's a $1 million loan program that we're rolling out. That information went far and wide around the same time that they were supposed to be getting information out about the grant program that you all had approved. I was so concerned about this I got a personal apology from Vermont Community Loan Fund but I didn't see enough to repair the harm that had been caused after the entirety of that for six months of the pandemic, there was a lot of dollars going out to others. You know this $5 million set aside with two and a half million for people of color, and they first and foremost put forward a million dollar loan program. And that's the kind of stuff that I think underscores Weiwei's point about making sure that this isn't quote unquote about us without us this isn't more money going to white led institutions that then dole the money out and the way they see fit to people of color. We need to give the money directly to organizations and institutions led by people of color who know the communication channels, the trust networks, and the systems of getting these resources out to those most impacted. So I think this is a really valuable bill I'm grateful to the sponsors for bringing it forward I'm grateful to the committee for giving this multiple days of testimony and hearing and I look forward to helping to move it move it in the Senate. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time with us our chair had to step out to take a phone call you know how it works in the legislature. But so I want to thank you is there any questions from the committee for the senator before we move on. Yes representative Dickinson. Okay, so that was very, very, very good presentation. I have a lot of sympathy and agree with a lot of the issues that are in this bill. I told this to the chief sponsor last week, or the week before. Anyway, the point of it is is that you bring up a lot of things in this bill or he has brought up a lot of things in this bill that are really important. And I've been reading a lot about wealth disparities and about issues of this. And when we talk about affordable housing in Vermont we're talking about mostly rental properties, mostly properties that are taken over in downtown areas by nonprofit organizations that use federal money and leverage it and do things like that. So the wealth creation for most people, including indigenous black people anyone else is owning your own home. And I think maybe it's, I'm not sure it's racism I think it's probably just on an unintended consequence is that we have active 50 that's been around for 50 years. We have conservation of land. I mean, worthwhile goals, but the issue is have we overdone that to a point where we cannot build starter homes. The missing middle, the home that the low income or lower middle income person can can get into and start building that wealth and then moving on and buying a bigger house, maybe not a big house but a bigger house, moving on to something bigger and more adaptable for their family rather than just running a two bedroom apartment over the store on Main Street in a designated downtown. I'm not sure that that's what I would call affordable. We have examples of this, you know the GI bill is referenced in this bill, and it really was the creation of wealth for many, many, many low income and lower middle class for monitors blue collar people workers. Have we unintentionally created an atmosphere where we can't develop starter homes I mean it sounds like what it is that we've done that and I mean wealth is wealth wealth is power. I mean there's no doubt about it you're going to have a whole lot easier time, borrowing money from the bank getting an equity loan for your kid to go to college or wherever you want to whatever you want to do for starting a business if you own your own home and are building equity every month. The second question I've had from people in my area want to know what, what definition as a person of color. You know is it a Lebanese person is it. You know what exactly I mean what was the, but what, you know Asians obviously Asians seem to be. But I'd really like you to address the wealth disparity issue first, because I think that's a really important part in Vermont. So lot there happy to address that you know and I think both of our I suppose housing is in general on this side with what I remember from my experience in the house so you all might not be as you know, daily we're looking at how we're trying to address housing issues, we're looking at a huge bill and Senate, economic development and housing that has a lot of homeownership components, and a lot of pieces of permit reform so you know I think we have to look at every part of the system of act overall housing affordability. When it comes specifically to home ownership, we do see in, whether they're intentional in terms of implicit or explicit bias. We do see a lot of ways that people of color and particularly black Vermonters are excluded from the home ownership and housing market. We don't really know one realtor who identifies as a person of color in the state of Vermont I know a lot of people who use that person as a realtor, and all the often asked them, can you make sure there's not Confederate flags, you know near me on that block, otherwise, you know, I can't really feel safe moving my family there that alone having someone who's helping you find housing who knows those kinds of things is a challenge to find a study just came out that showed that Vermont is under assessing the lack of black Vermonters and people of color. And we know from national studies that people of color are often deterred from buying homes in certain neighborhoods, so they are given less choice, less access to capital, and less support, even if they have built some generational wealth to try and access a home, the programs that probably are working the best right now and again we don't have good enough data we now know the startling statistic about the disparity in homeownership rate. The folks that are doing the best job are probably Habitat for Humanity and the housing trust Habitat for Humanity has done a great job with home ownership for new American folks, particularly. And they're trying to offer houses of the right bedroom size etc to meet the needs of certain larger families and whatnot but our housing market does discriminate against black Vermonters on a regular basis. And black Vermonters also have to think about where they are safe in the state so I do think there are really specific concerns there. You know, we, I, part of my bill also is first generation home buyer grants we do have first time home buyer tax credits, that's been supported for a long time at the house and sent it across different sides of the aisle. First time home buyer tax credits rely on having tax, you know, having tax capacity that you want to get a credit against, and you can be first time but you are probably still relying on generational wealth to help you buy that home. The idea behind the first generation home buyer grant is that we're getting a little bit more money, and we're helping people who are who don't have the generational wealth to otherwise draw on to afford a home. First generation still hard to define a little easier to define first generation than say person of color. I agree with you, you know, I face some people, you know, experiences of discrimination. It is nowhere near what a black Vermonter faces I think when we're going to look at disparities, it's most helpful to look at the difference between black and white Vermonters. You look at things like the the Tulsa massacre where Black Wall Street was burned to the ground and you see systemic erasure and destruction of the wealth of indigenous and black people in the history of this country. While I feel that my relatives and ancestors may have been barred from certain opportunities. It is not the same thing. So, you know, I would really it's a conversation that's challenging to have but I would really leave it to a BIPOC led organization to lead that conversation I don't think we in the legislature are going to be good at being the arbiters of what makes sense and how to get the money to the right people I think it's best left to black and indigenous leaders. Thank you. I just want to say that I was at the BCA meeting here locally. And there was a person who actually who did buy a house through Habitat for Humanity with funding and help from Champlain housing. One of the things they were trying to check their, they were challenging their tax bill because obviously it was, they thought it was too high. Understandably, yeah, they pointed out, well, I just want to say that they pointed out that if they own that house for, you know, the BCA people were saying, Well, what are you know, you sold in five years wouldn't the value go up blah blah blah, you know. And they pointed out that if they sold it in two years or five years or 50 years they would have to sell it under the terms of the agreement for forever affordable. They would have to sell it at the same price at which they bought it. That means that they really don't build any equity. You know I understand for forever affordable it helps to bring more people into affordable housing. But if you're not building the equity, it's really just glorified renting. I mean it's counterproductive in my in my opinion. The point of this is to help them build equity and take advantage of it. I mean we have started. That's right representative Dickson that's right speak that true. Well the point is is that that's what I would like to see available to all people. And we have affordable housing built in the 50s and 60s and there's probably been a dozen or maybe 20 families that have built wealth out of that, as it's changed hands over time. So some of those houses are now going for close to 300,000. I mean which is mind boggling. But anyway, that was my answer to that I that's my concern with this and I think this bill tries to go there. I'm not sure that the state can build that equity or build that wealth, I think the $10 million maybe for a new eight a new bureaucratic part, maybe a little over the top. But you know you can we do that with Vita we do it with the Vermont Housing Finance Authority we've done it with other institutions in the state that would be more amenable to helping people build equity and have home ownership and build wealth. But thank you. Yeah, you know just having served on House General and now Senate economic development housing. My sense is that this committee doesn't have enough bandwidth often to get into the details of shared equity home ownership. I don't know what's going on with the person in that situation that you can't you know before if you sell it before a certain period of time. There's very little new equity built up in the house. I also worked on a bill in houseways and means that that was successful several years ago to match the property tax rate to the value when perpetually affordable of that home so they shouldn't their taxes may still be higher than they feel they can afford, but they tied to the value of the house at a perpetually affordable rate not the overall value of the house I think shared equity home ownership is an incredibly important and internationally award winning tool that we have available to us is it is one of the tools that we should have in the toolbox and you know I just don't want people to leave thinking you you generate no equity you get a quarter to a third of the equity and the rest of the equity doesn't just disappear or go back into the nonprofit. It goes back into the perpetual affordability of the home and that you know is something really valuable not only because it helps someone build a small amount of equity. For a house that they would otherwise not be able to afford I mean some equity is better than never being able to become a homeowner at all. But the shared equity homes are all over the state in neighborhoods that otherwise have no affordable housing, and we know that accessing a neighborhood is just as important as accessing a home for these to exist. You know, in every community really matters so that person has access to other middle class benefits that come along with home ownership in that community. So I think it's one tool in the toolbox it's received international awards. I don't think our committee. When we look at the proposal by the governor are outright rejecting it but I think it's really critical to build on the success of that program without necessarily increasing the income eligibility to 120% of median household income. It's quite high I mean no people at 100% of median household income and below are really the ones who are you know we want to target our resources toward, I think the most so it's a tool in the toolbox, I think it's a lot probably for this committee to delve into the details of housing policy knowing that unfortunately on the on the house side it's one of the greatest economic development tools but it's separated into two different committees. I'd like to respond to that can I respond to that this is. Chair, where do you go. I'm really quickly, you know, we can make it very simple because I'm also new to the housing fight but definitely is a fight but I've been true to this. Hi, Kesha. The battle is, to me is our can our children be left these homes or does it go back to these programs because you know that's the whole point of why grandmother can leave your, you know, money over and over and over and over and over to, you know, a white family but you know an African mom under her payment under her salary can't do that. And when they try to buy homes there's nothing to leave the kids so I think people can simplify I have to get involved with this clearly but the simple way to do that is when this is all over and mommy and daddy is no longer here can we leave you something over there be a bank knocking on our door where they'd be an organization knocking on our door saying we want this so called gift a K crumbs that we gave your mother to some you know, try to provide for you guys back and then we're going to keep on making our own bread and then back to what I said in another testimony but real quickly that's the whole point is to make sure we have something to leave our children this is definitely a fight that I just learned about and I'm glad that we're talking about this not for entertainment, but because people are in, you know, excited to do something great and right bills that are actually effective and it goes from the government to the people because the people are who's what's important the government serves the people, but let's continue on. Karen, thank you and we do have you on our witness list as well and we can give you a proper introduction so you can give us your full presentation if that would be okay. Yes, sorry I'm not on camera today I'm you know the Harvard Kennedy School of government is they don't play around if you want the Harvard name you have to work for it and you know also being African American, everything we have is based off how we work. But to work is a blessing Adam and Eve was working in that garden, and they were satisfied so I love to work, and I love to work on issues like this so I'm excited to be here. Not as a sheep who are listening to politicians, perhaps feed us very very little, but as a shepherd as who hopefully is about to teach these sheeps, how to also be their own shepherd and shepherd as and start walking and you know filling our own thirst and our own food. So if they don't want to leave anything for our kids, we've already created the stuff and found the pastures to leave for our children's children's generation. Over and over so I am currency time a beauty queen the one and only. There is none like me and I'm excited to be here. So thank you so much to the committee for having this conversation. I am do back and Senate government operations and I know it's a complex topic but I really appreciate you waiting in and look forward to working with you in the future to continue committee in the Senate. Thank you. Thank you Senator representative Mark I'm sorry to interrupt but I wonder if I, I have an appointment at two o'clock. And I wonder if I might make sure I get in before before that time. Curtis, how was your time schedule. So, Debbie, you're welcome to step in my slot. Thank you so much Curtis. Okay, go ahead. Great, thank you. I very much appreciate that sorry to ask for special, special favors. But for the record I'm Debbie Ingram I am the executive director of Vermont interfaith action, which is a faith based community organizing group of over 70 congregations in Vermont. And that are of many different faith traditions, and we encompass some 16,000 brawners. We focus on systemic change around issues of social justice, and our congregations like the state as a whole are predominantly white. These people of faith watched with horror, the killing of George Floyd, and the subsequent rallies across the country and the trial of the officer responsible. The people in our congregations, even before these events had begun their own journeys to understand the extreme inequities in the systems of our country, and to understand how they themselves and their families have benefited from the white privilege embedded in our institutions from generation to generation. From book studies, discussion groups and corporate and personal reflections. These folks at VA have committed themselves to being strong white allies in beginning to fight the wrongs of racial inequality and systemic racism. In the actions of VA with bigger and begun partnerships with the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance and other people of color to make a difference in our state, particularly with regard to the racial wealth gap, which is real and economically devastating to people of color. It is with this conviction and purpose that we testify before you today to support H 406 as one more step in our journey of doing the right thing. And being true white allies. And so as an accompaniment to my own testimony I'd like to ask to recognize Mary Beth Barrett who is a leader in Vermont Interfaith Action. You're you're muted. Thank you Debbie and thank you Mr Chairman committee. As Debbie says VA's mission is to create solutions to systemic issues that prevent our most vulnerable citizens from enjoying the quality of life God intends for us all. And so we have been working years now to address issues of systemic racism. And this is very key and what has led to the huge income disparities and wealth gap we see between BIPOC Vermonters and white Vermonters. So we see that the issues of H 406 really are addressing issues of justice and equality. And we know from our research that there are barriers to BIPOC Vermonters moving into business, and that among those barriers or access to capital, as Kasia mentioned, access to technology and technology training, and broadly speaking access to the resources to help BIPOC folks build their own businesses. So we think that the bill is addressing this in numerous good ways but one of the things that's of particular interest and importance I think of these four centers around the state. And these are important because the needs of BIPOC people in different parts of the state are different, depending on where they are and driving distances are different. And we think that the technology resources and training that are part of this bill are important aspects of it as are the grants to create programming to address these issues, and also the related cultural issues. We also see the importance of continuing to build networks and I think from hearing wayways testimony we see the importance of networking and mentoring relationships. So these centers could serve as a bridge to some existing programs like the Department of Labor internships and apprenticeships. I guess one of the most important points that we have identified is that these programs would be developed and planned by BIPOC individuals. So if there's anything we've learned in our research and you've heard today in terms of the testimony is the important of process equity and agency that the importance of programs planned with the voice of BIPOC people, rather than white people who don't face the same cultural barriers or encountering systemic racism in the same way. We think that the agency and the empowerment and hearing the voice of those who the lived experience is very important in this bill. The model of these centers would benefit all Vermonters, not just BIPOC folks, since it'll contribute to the economy and to the Vermont brand of small businesses, and it'll increase the wealth of our neighbors of color. I just wanted to speak from a moment I'm speaking as a VIA leader in here and I just want to speak a little bit from my background I'm retired after 15 years as the assistant director of Career Center at UVM and prior to that 15 years directing the Career Center at Trinity College. And higher ed and UVM in particular has worked really hard to address issues of diversity and inclusion. We worked hard in the Career Center to address the career needs of students and alums of color. We had a sense of training the area related to diversity and inclusion, and we took many good steps by well intentioned white folks. Many of those steps were successful, but we still felt that more was needed. So some years ago we made a real commitment to enlarging our pool of applicants for career counseling and leadership roles to include more BIPOC folks. We felt it in strong applicant pools and hiring of more people of colors and the people of color in these roles. They understood firsthand the barriers that people of color faced from their lived experience. They understood the issues related to cultural capital, they understood the gaps in areas like networking and understanding career pathways. There were programs and strategies to address these issues. They were important changes in our services and we wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful in addressing these issues without the leadership of our BIPOC staff members. So at a kind of a simple level, when BIPOC students and alums saw the faces of others who looked like them in the department, our credibility went up, and BIPOC use of the services also increased. There's some parallel between these centers and some of the initiatives of this bill with our situation at UVM. These need to be initiatives that are led by BIPOC folks who are aware of the kind of lived experience that is difficult now. And we are supporting this, the IA is supporting this because we want to support the gift of BIPOC people that we need in Vermont. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much that so that's that's our modern interfaith action test one. Thank you any questions for Debbie or Mary Beth. Thank you both for joining us this afternoon. Thank you so much. Curtis good afternoon. Good to see you again hope all is going well with you and we look forward to hearing how things are going. Thank you for your endeavors. Great. Thank you for the record. I'm Curtis Reed junior. I am executive director of Vermont partnership for fairness and diversity, and president and CEO of the CRJ consulting group. I'm a senior resident of Vermont, a bridal world in particular, and have to say that I'm bullish on the state. I think it's a great place to live, raise the family here. You know feel like this is a. I can hold the promise of prosperity for folks of color. As eclectic groups as we are. I want to appreciate both what Wei Wei and Kesha said, in terms of their sort of analysis of the data. The only bone. Excuse me bone to pick with the, with the data presentation in the bill. I can find it here is looking at. Yeah, here it is on page eight. 17 and 18. Nearly a quarter of black monitors live in poverty compared to as compared with 11% of her monitors overall. I'd like to see that clarified not in terms of 11% of her monsters overall, but if we're going to look at black monitors don't need to compare that with white monitors. And not the whole kid and could move together. So that's the only data point that I have to comment on. I'd like to bill with a couple of limitations. First, the, the idea that we're going to create yet another department. Not the presence of BIPOC organizations is to me a fatal sort of error. And I would propose that the Vermont professionals of color network be inserted in the language in the composition, as well as Vermont partnership. And that counterbalances to the three other organizations that are majority led on. There's, there are a lot of systemic barriers that I don't believe that white monitors understand our systemic barriers because they don't live them. So let's get the roll out of the $5 million for recovery grants. No one had thought about, well, how do we reach by pot business owners. It just is, let's do a set aside but no one had thought, you know how do we actually reach those by pot businesses. If we had been the conversation, the month prior that we could have helped, you know, provide that leadership provide that insight, whether rather than wait three days before the grant is launched, then to ask for my partnership to come in, and that would be ultimately did. So I would say that let's, let's, you know, have two organizations alongside the other three that would manage this. The other, the other issue is, you know, there's no reference to training in the, in the, in the bill of working with existing organizations in becoming more, you know, culturally humble or culturally competent. In terms of redefining and re engineering their programs so that they're more attractive to by pot business owners and their families. So I would advocate for some acknowledgement that these the overall system needs. Some some training so upgrade in their understanding of the by pocket experience and how that dovetails with administration administration of programs. So that's, those are, are my comments about the bill. I think it's a great first start. And our endorsement for professionals of color network. You know we are in, we're at the halfway mark of a 40 year initiative, Vermont vision for multicultural future. And as we look around the landscape. We are the Vermont professionals of color network as a group of highly intelligent of energetic, technologically savvy by pot professionals that we are hitching our wagon to Vermont partnership we are. We've asked, we've begun to ask our followers 750 to 800 folks that are in our database to transition over to Vermont professionals of color. Because they're, they're platform is a lot more interactive. There's a vitality there. That the passes the gray beard that you see here, and I mentioned my 44 years of residency in in Vermont. And, you know, some technical assistance and pro bono to help them really achieve the vision that they, that they have for themselves. But I think it's, you know, we're not going for my partnerships not going anywhere. I'm just saying that the next generation of institutional presence amongst BIPOC community is Vermont professionals of color. I think that they deserve a place at the table for this particular grant. So I'm going to leave it there, open up for questions, questions for Curtis. Yes, Mr chair. Thank Curtis representative Kimball here. From the budget that we had last year we appropriated funds for a study that we're supposed to get next week on really recommendations for the creation of a BIPOC network and just wondering what your knowledge is or involvement and what are, is that going to be something we're going to see next week or what do you think. No, because no contract has been set forth yet. We, we had information that from our partnership would be awarded the grant but the, the contracting process has been very lengthy and it just hasn't come to summation yet. There's the, the first issue focused on the translation services being added. They wanted to, the way the legislation was written translation services were part of the administrative cost. And the cost of translation services would have, would have surpassed the administrative cost if the grant was or the contract was $100,000. So that needed to get ironed out. Which I don't think it, it, it has been. So there's been no work on that particular bill that was designed to actually be the precursor I think to your bill to this current bill to have some information that would inform of 406. But that, that hasn't happened, you know, the wills of state government move excruciatingly slow. And this is one, one case. So, no, there's there, at least nothing's coming from, from, from our partnership. What the quality is, is that the contracting process just hasn't hasn't happened. I know there's been a lot of, a lot of discussion, I think, and state government about the contracting. But nothing's come back to us. All right, that's really surprising, I think, to most of us thinking that that was in the works. So, it isn't just that it isn't the works it just hasn't come out yet. Yeah, we had an inclination. Back in October, that an award was forthcoming. The other legislators know some emails congratulating from our partnership on the on. No, that wasn't backed up with any contracting with any contracts. Okay, thank you. Sure. My recollection was there were deadlines that had to be met in that bill and that the contract had to be awarded by a date certain. And so that hasn't happened yet. That is correct. Well, if it hasn't wasn't with us. Well, I think we need to find out what's going on. Yeah, that's not good news for us. We were expecting to get, get the ground laid to continue to build on. And without that, it's difficult to build. We will, we'll find out more. Okay. Yeah, I fully agree with you. Within. I also understand how slow things can move through state government through procurement office. And through the legislature so. We do too. That's why we put drop dead date in there. Thank you for enlightening us Curtis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'm watching children in the background. I promise that I'm not being invaded my children in the background here if you can hear them. But just to build this briefly I don't mean to harp on this more but I just want to also display and that's disappointing to hear that the contracting has held up this important work. And this was just based on last session this information pieces of this information at least we're really going to help us take the next steps in an informed a meaningful way, building off of all the testimony from you Curtis and others from last year's feedback on the relief grants and how limiting and the gaps and everything else that we've really sort of tried to peel back and understand with reaching out to bypass this is knowing who they are building trusted relationships, etc. So, Mr. Chair, I would love to get to the bottom of this sooner or later to know what pieces we can help to move along so that this work can get really get underway and by about businesses can be engaged in a conversation that's not rushed and also shorten just because the contract isn't issued yet. Yeah, we're certainly going to find out what's going on. It's not good news to us. Yeah, I had knowing that they were not going to meet the deadline may suggestions of the benchmark X number of days after the signature of the contract. So there'd be a set of benchmarks to make 30 days 6090 120 days out without a specific date on it because you're right your first plenary plenary report was due next month. That's our next week. Right. And that's, that's not going to happen. So, um, yeah, that's what we'll let you, I'll leave it to you to figure out where the other questions for Curtis this point. Curtis, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon and we appreciate it and we'll try to get to the bottom of the issues with the contract. Okay, good. I am leaving Vermont tomorrow will be back on the 15th. So you won't be able to reach me. Unless you have a satellite phone. I'm going sailing so I'll be out on the water. So we'll enjoy yourself. Okay, thanks a lot. Thank you. All right. Happy Valentine's Day Curtis. My understanding is Linda wasn't able to make it she had a conference. I don't believe is with us. Next up is mark. Good afternoon mark. Thank you for joining us this afternoon. Good to see you again. Good to see you as well. Mr chair. How are you. Well good. able to dig out of the snow a little bit. I don't know where he's going, but he's probably got to be a lot better than this if he's selling. So happy travels, Curtis. Mark, we can, we can barely hear you is that. Let me see if I can adjust the volume here one moment please. That'd be great we don't want to miss your testimony. I'll bet you that did it didn't. Much better. So for the record. I am Reverend Mark Hughes. I am the executive director of the Vermont racial justice alliance. And I want to thank you and Mr chair for inviting us to your committee or just wish the committee a good afternoon and also just wanted to flag that I brought a few folks along. I have a Reverend Arnold Thomas, also our director of community engagement support is Mr Isaac a wussu. And I do believe that Lydia Diamond, and, as well as Karen Cita have prepared testimony for you this afternoon. And as the originating architect of the this economic equity policy, I'm really proud to show up and represent the Vermont racial justice alliance and testimony today. I would ask that as I'm presenting if I would be allowed to share a few slides. If the assistant would allow me to do so, Mr chair with your permission. Sure Camille, could you make America co host look at your co host mark. Thank you very much I got that. And I will just again start with the pride that I have in being a part of this process. I also acknowledge the Vermont racial justice alliance and, and just really stand firm on the mission of the alliance to secure sustainable power and to ensure agency and provide security for American descendants of slavery while embracing their history and preserving their culture. So, as we going to testimony today I just wanted to remind the committee of the legislative agenda that we put forward earlier this year, which we refer to as act. Acknowledge and reconcile historic systems of racism, create new structures for community empowerment. And also to transform state systems and public safety. So we've been this this by any more can aggressively to to move some of these policies. Well, I thank you for your work today on the constitutional amendment, which we've been working at for years now. And we earnestly we honestly believe that it will serve as one of the foundational and pivotal components of addressing systemic racism. We continue to work in in various committees. We'll talk a little bit during this testimony about our 113, which was the legislature's commitment in joint resolution earlier this biennium to eradicate systemic racism. So we fully and wholly support the work that's coming out of Southern part of Vermont on this home and land ownership. In fact, we do have fingerprints on that that policy as well. And I want to acknowledge the work of the, the Health Committee with chair Lipper in their work and moving to health equity bill earlier this biennium as well. There are policies and various committees in, you know, all of this stuff collectively and more, for example, the contribution that we've made to providing testimony and H in act with act 250 with his 50 year review. The cannabis market rolled out in our contribution in the equity components of that inequality of life outcomes. Those, as well as the indicators that sits now in Senate government operations, which is slightly on hold so there's quite a bit of things that are happening and I just want to just indicate to the committee because I did have the opportunity to hear representative Dickinson Dickinson's comments earlier Mr chair about some concerns about the other components of addressing systemic racism and I think those concerns are well placed. And I just wanted to assure the representative that this is a multifaceted approach that we're taking to addressing systemic racism, both both legislatively. As well as in other areas in which we're working across the state. 501 C3 here we have statewide operations and much of the work we're doing also involves outreach and education and teaching the root causes the impacts, as well as solutions of systemic racism. So much of community engagement support which includes wellness and affinity spaces like black space and First Friday which will be tonight. The first African landing event and more as we move over into cultural empowerment community engagement support to involves our rapid response capability, which is building questions and concerns for our community members and constituents across the state and connecting them to systems of support because truly black and brown folks are underserved across all communities in the state and struggling with this simultaneous and consistent disparate outcomes of all determinants, coming at them on a daily basis. So it's tough out there. And just briefly stop here before I talk just a little bit about data because we have a very robust data team on the back end of all of the work that we are doing right now and you can find these cards as well as the data dashboard. On our website and much of this information was used to construct the findings for this particular policy, and you can see it's largely based on census data, and I want to assure you. And I know you've taken the time to vet some of this data that these numbers are solid. And the work is consistent. I would pause just for a brief moment and just indicate that certainly I get the feeling that human services in the committee of chair pew may have to take a quick look at this policy as well. I just proposed policy because I do think there may be some crossover and I'm sure Mr chair that you've probably already considered that. I also want to note on the upfront that we fully concur with the recommendations that were made by the partners as well as the POC net. Definitely, it was has always been our full intention to have this property fully collaborative. And we, we, there are some, I think there are some some areas there that were brought out that were that I think we should pay close attention to our partners in, in the with what they're delighted they're shedding on on some of this policy that we put forward for me to believe that there's, there must be a connection to the black and brown community and we, you know, we must be able to step forward and walk in this work that we're doing. We, you know, these are challenges in our communities that that we're putting forward policies to solve and and also our organizations are poised to do the work. And I just want to flag on this particular slide the note there, the 24.4% of black home owners and also compare that to 72% of whites in the state. And also, the poverty rates as Curtis had mentioned earlier, those numbers compared to whites are 10.4%. And I think that maybe that will provide some clarity and maybe the policy should the proposal should be adjusted to reflect it accurately which in the, the, the proposal should be adjusted to ensure that it at least is not ambiguous. I'd go back to that previous slide and just simply state that you know it is dismal and very disappointing that only 2.2% of all of the land the farmland in Vermont is owned by black farmers. And that's something that really stands out. Again, you know, because systemic racism is a political and economic divide along racial lines we know that you know all of these things can be true at the same time. So, these numbers I'm not going to spend a lot of time, but I did want to make sure that we were properly framing a conversation before we had a brief review of some of the work that we have done that the racial justice alliance and justice for all has done over the last several years. We do address this work in eradicating systemic racism we know Act 54 racial disparities in the criminal and juvenile justice system advisory panel with the attorney generals and the human rights commissions task force on racial disparities that reported out all systems disparities in all systems. In the following year we created what would become the racial equity executive directors office as well as the panel. The birthday boy representative China this morning on HR 25 and the work that went into and was the precursor of PR to and we've already talked about Act 33 in our 113 so you can see there are a number of things happening at the same time again just to be clear. This is just legislative. We're going over some of the other work that we're doing in community and we'll talk a little bit more about some of some more of that. We're also very, very busy in Burlington and I'm not going to get into that. As far as what is happening in Burlington. Yes, we are in in House general on 387. And this kind of brings us here on 406 and yes we are watching intently. I think it is fair to note that we also realize that in addition to the work that we are doing on policy in the legislature that the legislature also holds the the authority to act upon to act upon appropriations and also to act upon oversight. And also in the other chamber obviously have the authority hold the authority to act upon appointment and we're paying close attention to all of those areas as well as we continue to try to dismantle as we continue our work rather and dismantling systemic racism. We are talking a lot about systemic racism and entitled three in the enabling statute of the racial equity executive director as well as in your 113. I just specifically stated that this work is is the responsibility of the executive as well as the legislative branches. We derive our definition of systemic racism is being the unjustly gained political economic power of whites and the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines. We've been working off of since we started the work. We want to be on record. And in fact I'd like to read this into the record as as specifically stating what we mean when we say systemic racism for the record systemic racism includes both the deep structures and the surface structures of racial oppression. It includes a complex array of anti black practices, the unjustly gained political economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource alone. Resource inequalities along racial lines and the emotion laden racist framing created by whites to maintain and rationalize their privilege power. And systemic racism thus encompasses the dominant white racial frame with his white racist attitudes, ideologies, emotions, images and narratives, as well as the discriminatory actions and institutions flowing out of and link to that frame. This racism is material, social, ideological reality and indeed systemic which means that the racist reality is manifested at all major institutions. The racist America roots current realities future reparations by Joe Fagan and Kimberly do see where we derived this definition for the record. Just briefly I'll just say also to just bolster some of what we're saying is we're paying close attention to the United Nations, human rights console. There is a profound need to acknowledge that the transatlantic straight trade in Africans enslavement colonialization and colonialism colonization and colonialism were a crime against humanity, and among the major sources and manifestations of racism racial discrimination, are xenophobia xenophobia and related intolerance past injustices and crimes against African Americans need to be addressed was repairatory justice. And this what I quoted you from was written in 2016. This is a report of the working group of experts of people of African descent. This again is a subgroup of the United Nations human rights console. So that's why we started our work with the Constitution. Again, we appreciate that the work that you've done. I also wanted to briefly highlight the commitments that the legislature did put forward in May of 2021 committing to sustained and deep work of eradicating systemic racism throughout the state actively fighting racist practices and participating in the creation of a more just and equitable systems, and also committing to coordinating work and participating in ongoing action, grounded in science and data to eliminate race based health disparities and eradicate systemic racism. We thank you for that. And we also thank you for the work that you've initiated in the work that you are doing. I just wanted to flag and note. This is ongoing work. We are starting the work we have started to work in many areas we have built a scaffolding for this work we continue this work. This is a multi generational effort that we are endeavoring so it's very very important. As we leave this committee today and as we move out of this session this year to understand that this is just a part this is a precept upon which we will place another precept in on in in in upcoming years. I wanted to remind you of the budget memo that we sent over to you, which I'm sure everyone on this in this committee did receive, as well as everyone in the legislature at the top of last year. This is just a small quote from it that the Alliance calling upon you to state upon the state to commit to a moral budget and to address the impact of systemic racism in Vermont. Again, we speak of this work as being generational work. More on the more on that memo. One of the things that we talked about was is a cultural empowerment and economic advancement network statewide. You heard the Vermont Interfaith Action speaking to some of this work in their support for it, as well as some of the other members on the call. We talked about the funding of this program being a grant fund for qualified BIPOC led organizations and collaboratives to provide all of the programming throughout the state. And what we talked about is these community empowerment centers, they're going to offer these this rich programming in the true history contributions resilience of African American descendants of slavery and other BIPOC. So through these empowerment centers programming shall be provided to clear the obstacles for economic empowerment and also including adult basic education. Personal and career development, entrepreneurial and business training, technical assistance, capital access and other programs shall exist in also these centers of excellence for arts and STEM will be available and and facilities will include community and youth centers. There's also education we intend to deliver from these centers to provide information and knowledge on land and home ownership and programming that would be admit administered throughout this network. We're going to state that, you know, in addition to this, this work happening in, say, for example, Burlington, we realize it's very important that these centers be located throughout the state because there are different priorities in different geographic areas of the state there are different stakeholders in different geographic portions of the state. I want to introduce you to the Richard Kim Center named after my past father-in-law who is who left us in September. Some of you are aware of Mr. Kim, who has been a first in many things across the state through a community partnership to Richard Kim It contains a community center, a youth activity center, arts and science centers of excellence. We will be focusing on wellness, youth, cultural empowerment and economic development. Programming at the Richard Kim Center will include personal and professional development including adult basic education basic computer skills, workforce development, personal and career coaching. Also in wealth management, financial management, home and land ownership, investment management, business cultivation and support programming, including technical assistance, grants and loans, business to business mentorship programs, community engagement support. Richard Kim Center opened with a soft opening right at the close of the year. Some of the other things that we see coming out of the center and moving forward on community engagement and support to include activities, spiritual, emotional and financial support, group discussions, indigenous African American and refugee resettlement, unifying and collective and community building activities. I'll just stop there for a minute. One of our flagship initiatives that's lifting off right now is what we call building bridges. This is where we bring refugee resettlement and immigrant communities, as well as indigenous African American community members together for ongoing conversation to build bridges so we can unify and build power. Youth services as well as cultural empowerment programming, teaching about the education of the true history, contributions, resilience of American descendants of slavery and other black and indigenous and other persons of color. So much of this stuff is either standing up or is underway or is forthcoming from the Richard Kim Center. The overview of 406 is simple. There are only really 10 major points. I will not belabor you with this conversation because I know that Representative Tina came in and provided a introduction. And I also know that it was, there was a walkthrough that was conducted on the bill as well. But I did want to just briefly go over just some very, very high level points and then drill down into a couple. One is the fact that what we're doing is we're trying to course course correct historical impact of economic exploitation. This is a recommendation to to add a point into the principles that are outlined in this statute. We're establishing a the department itself as well as directing the programming, programming implementation. Now this programming implementation is through a statewide cultural empowerment economic advancement network, which consists of these black and brown owned and operated nonprofits or the the collaboratives that exist that are out there. Of course the special fund would need to be created. The implementation of the grant fund, again, led by black and indigenous and other persons of color that provides grants and support. I would just stop there for a minute and know that we started a grant program. As the Richard Kim Center was starting as we were planning to Richard Kim Center, and we're continue we're going to continue that through the Richard Kim Center as well as I think I said that in one of our bullet points. As far as programming is concerned again you can see the overlap here you see the Richard Kim Center is has already been stood up as what could be a component of what it is we would be building with H 406. Also directing and the creation of a business development program in this, of course, I think it was flagged by our professionals of color network. Anyway, and that is much appreciated. I do think we are. We share the opinion that it should be clear in this language that there must be involvement of black and brown folks we did we did say relevant stakeholders I think relevant stakeholders could be replaced. In fact, I recommend that that would be replaced. I mean we'd be proud to join that list of black and brown organizations that would be that would be included in this particular policy, nearing conclusion, I would just say that these these final points, creating this business procurement program. This long overdue that we should be looking at something a centralized apparatus that manages the procurement program for all agencies across the state of Vermont because the state of Vermont is the biggest business in Vermont, and I think, because there is the state of Vermont has the authority and the ability to to effectuate that change. It seems it stands to reason that we should just go ahead and make itself in terms of creating pathways for career advancement. As I said in those Jedwick those government workforce, equity and diversity. I think console meetings, very, very familiar with incredibly high turnover rate of the biggest business in Vermont, the state itself, as well as some of the challenges that we were facing with black and brown folks being able to not just come to Vermont, not just be employed with the biggest business in Vermont, but to have sustainability in those positions to be able to to not just come but to stay. And then finally, designing and implementing five continuing education and apprenticeship programs. I know five might seem like an odd number. We wrestled with this I won't go into detail on exactly what prompted us to come up with that number. As far as the policy itself is concerned, I just want to flag page 15 of 19, 15 of 19, and that is 2471 Department of Cultural Empowerment and Economic Advancement in Section B. It says that the part the department shall work to ensure programming implementation throughout a statewide cultural empowerment and economic advancement network, which shall consist of four community empowerment centers located in different geographic regions of the state. I just want to stand on that just for a minute, because I truly believe that that is the cornerstone of this policy. I believe that just as way way said earlier with black and brown people are operating these facilities for example, at 372 North Square where the Richard Kim Center is that building is owned by a Nepali gentleman, the, all of the programs in the Richard Kim Center will be ran and operated by black and brown folks, the racial justice alliance is serving as an umbrella for that facility right now and for that for the Richard Kim Center. So all of this, all of this stuff is is is strictly by pop 100% by pop. I also want to flag item E word says the department shall use monies in the fund to design and implement a grant program for qualified organizations and collaboratives. Indigenous and persons of color. I want to just go where it says it shall provide grants to. I want to emphasize strongly strongly emphasize providing cultural empowerment program this is F1. I just want to close into ABC all the way through D the, the whole idea about this is about this is the, this is the component that speaks to culture. This is the component that speaks to ensuring that what we're doing is we are preserving that we are cultivating that that we are nourishing that we are growing and able to hand down to the next generation of cultures in this community. And also the business cultivation component as well as the, the personal professional development piece. All of these things I think very very important. And once again overlapping with the existing programming of the Richard Kim Center. So in conclusion, Mark, we think we lost your volume. Yeah. I'm hearing now. Reverend Hughes. You're very safe. Check and see. There you go. Is that good. Okay, we just, let me just double check here and see what happened. And I'm at least, at least it happened towards the end. So, Yeah, in closing, you know, I would just one of the things that I want to emphasize is, you know, there's, I know there's a lot of moving parts of this. I appreciate that that that you've elected to take it up. Some would, some would say, some folks would say well we already have systems in place to address issues. And I think these, these types of issues well the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance legislative agenda, the act agenda. You know I talked about acknowledging and reconciling historic systems of racism. And creating new structures and community empowerment, transforming the state systems and public safety, qualitative and quantitative data indicate that we are, we are doing that the work that we're doing that it's not, it's not reaching everybody. It's not, it's not meeting everybody's needs. How is the time to listen and prioritize the voices of black, indigenous and other people of color. This whole community, even when it means pushing back on state systems to create required transformation to meet black and brown and poor folks where they are, and ensure that the obstacles are cleared, so they can get what they need. Some other folks would say, is this is going to take a long time. Well yeah. So transparency is important, particularly given that black and brown folks have been waiting for 245 years here in, in, in the state of Vermont it's also important, given that we're sitting on an unprecedented budget surplus. And this policy has been on the wall since last year. And this structural work, it must co exist with the quick hits with the low hanging fruit that we're grabbing the work of H 406 is meant to implement as an institutionalized approach that promises change for future generations. The Vermont Racial Justice Alliance, it announced plans to launch the Richard Kim Center and burning to the city center. Known as the Richard Kim Center it's going to, it's going to honor a legacy of Richard count, a black community social justice hero. It's our hope that it'll create a new era of intentional black lead community engagement and support in Burlington and across Vermont, and also pay a promise forward into the hope in the lives of black and youth in Vermont located central to those it serves here in Burlington. We believe that it will serve as a bastion of hope and purpose and vision for the black community. I thank you for the time that you've given me this afternoon. I appreciate that you've taken up this policy and that you're taking it serious. I stand ready to answer any of your questions thank you Mr chair. Mr chair. Yes. This is currency that I thought you were telling me to introduce myself so I actually just gave my introductions because that's how I like to introduce myself. I'd actually didn't get to have an opportunity to discuss the actual bill on my mind I'm also having spotty internet based off the winter storm. So if there is time in the committee is willing, I would love to briefly disclose my, my opinions and thoughts on why we should absolutely with no doubt in our minds, past this bill. And to that end, my hope is is that that that Korean seat a reference, Reverend Arnold Thomas as well as Lydia diamond would have that opportunity. If I didn't make that clear at the top of the presentation. So, they're all on the on the list. Okay, our, our problem is that we're at 240. We have 20 minutes left in the end on today's time. I have committee members that are at the State House, and with this snowstorm I don't want to leave them. Leave them too late so that they can get home to their families while it's still light out. So, if we're not able to finish up testimony today, we'll reschedule again for next week to continue the discussion. We want to make sure all voices are heard. And so, you know, we're going to try to go on. We'll take any questions for you mark, and then we'll move on. And, but at three o'clock, or thereabouts we need to to wrap it up for today. And we will reschedule again for next week. Mr. Chair, if you don't mind I would, if, if, and with the committee's permission I would defer on any questions I'd be happy to come back and rejoin the committee. If there are questions if if we could table those and if we could just move on to the folks other folks because it's very difficult for them to schedule to come in and they've taken the time to do so I would really appreciate if they could be heard this afternoon. And Mr. Chair I'm an attorney in the making will probably speak in front of the Supreme Court which is 20 minutes or less but I can make it even shorter for you and I'm very brief with my very very simple facts which is what I will be dealing with and I'll make it very clear so everybody will know. I'm so sorry for the social norm. I didn't ask Mother Nature to give us this but she does what she likes. Okay I appreciate that. Okay, how do you feel. Are you able to write down any questions that you have now and hold them for another time. Okay, I don't mind moving on but I do want to caution everyone that that we have 20 minutes left. I still have, I think, three presenters in those 20 minutes and I don't want to have to cut you off. I want to make sure that the committee is able to hear everything that you have to tell us. And so I don't want you to speed things up and and you know try to rush through. And we also tend to be inquisitive so we won't ask them have time for questions as well. So, I. Mr. Chair. Yes, this is Reverend Thomas if, if my presentation needs to be reserved for another time I'd be willing to do so, so that the other speakers can have a say. Thank you Reverend Thomas that's very much appreciated thank you very much for that. And, and Isaac. Are you able to get your test of both your testimonies in within 20 minutes or so. Oh, I can, you know, Marcus says that the race to justice thunder we talk a lot about training and they trained us how to get our thoughts in under five minutes or less. So, yes, I can do it. Okay, very good and I did get a thumbs up from Isaac as well so that's that's wonderful Karen. Glad you're with us. We're, we're waiting to hear what you have to tell us thank you. Okay yes again sorry I had a spotty internet and I'm listening to some of the words that were spoken earlier. But I should start something very simple with the first name on the bill that you see is Brian Gina. If I was every white man, and are we white women in the house of representative I would treat that man with great respect, because not only does he say he's about people of color but he's about ways to legislate it and make it legal and have our governor sign on it. So the man is full of character, and should be treated with great respect and I know that the Burlington voters see that and they see, finally, a genuine individual and I'm sorry, a genuine individual in politics, and in Vermont politics and what an honorable ban, what an honorable bill that he is presenting for us. I just, you know, it's so unfortunate how poor people are, and it's so unfortunate how not only are they poor but they're always African American they're always white people who white mothers single mothers are always, you know, people who is you can see the slavery. If you look close enough to the lineage, the family lineage and I just you know think that it's time for us to pause and think why is that so. And what we can do to eight people in our community Brian China again has heard literally heard the cries of African American women in this state, and has, you know, found a way to use his intelligence use his mind to create a bill in front of you guys in front of the state and in front of the House of Representative to try to make a change. Not all of us know what we're doing but all of us know that a change needs to come. Not all of us are perfect but all of us know that the change must come. And we're trying to do that we're trying to figure out how we can feel pride, and we can also feel happiness and joy because our children can eat and not, you know, go to the food shelf and eat expired food, but you know can afford healthy food can afford to pay their rent can afford to pay their heat can afford to have extra money so they can do stuff for their children. I think about children a lot I think about children, because they're the ones who will be running our governors they will have government they'll be the ones who are commanding our armies they're going to be the ones who are teaching our children, creating our medicine, and we have to think about them constantly Nelson Mandela, a great leader who I always think on about his life inspires me continuously and I'm always watching his reading his actions and watching documentaries about how he made me because he was a man of great character. And he always thought about the youth he always thought about the use of South Africa and this is our opportunities to think about the youth of Vermont and all the youth that didn't get in my generation, a black woman who didn't get the respect who didn't get the great treatment who didn't get the kindness who didn't get the joy but got the, the jealousy the hatred the micro aggressions you know, we want a generation who doesn't have to deal with that we want a generation who knows themselves who are you know on a journey to find themselves and are happy because they're able to do it with a strong community, not a community where they're always wondering do these people want me, you know, not to succeed is it because I'm a woman is it because I'm black but you know I want the next generation to not have to deal with that. I want them to just follow their hearts. So everybody who was born can do what God called them to do. And you know this world will be a better place if we could all just look in our hearts and find out you know what was it that I was supposed to do why was I born, you were born for a purpose and everybody has a purpose and I think it's so great that we have people now who are like Brian like Mark, and other people who are testified we've been in this fight behind closed doors are following, you know, their purpose and their purpose is to make a change for the state you know we don't always know what we're doing, we don't always know if we're doing it right but we're doing it with passion and we're doing it with purpose and we will succeed. And this bill should succeed. And that's what's in my heart and that's what. And I'm also glad that I got to speak and introduce myself and I'm glad that you know after Kesha left a woman of faith, a white ally made it very clear that she was in support of this bill. So I know I see the changes in the horizon and my heart is filled with joy. And I'm thankful for all the people who are following their purpose in life and knowing that you know by doing this, they will know that they have done a great thing for our state a great service for our state, and it will be well with their souls and it will be well with their children's children's soul. And they'll know that, you know, their family member who voted on this bill who voted to have it passed to the Senate who voted the governor to ensure that it's, you know, just law in Vermont. Children's children's children will thank them and they will be on the right side of history. Thank you. Thank you Karen. Any questions for Karen. Oh it's Karen again the one of you. Yes, thank you for the correction. No worries. We appreciate you sharing with us this afternoon. It brings a lot of things into context. Thank you for everyone. And we appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you. What a, what a time to be alive. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon. I know most of you are stuck in the snow so I'll make it as brief as possible. Thank you all for having me. My name is Isaac with the director of community engagement and support for the Vermont racial justice alliance and I'm here in support of H 406 systemic racism is the political and economic division along racial lines. Say that again systemic racism is the political and economic division along racial lines. Nearly 25.9% of black vermin is living property and 10.4% of those white, which is not much different from the country which is nine. It's 95% black and 8.2% white. This is based on the US census. There are disabilities in every aspect of life for black folks. The purpose of this bill states that is to act. How can we invest in systems of economic advancement and cultural partners, a way to move towards greater racial and social equity and wealth distribution health resilience and economic and cultural prosperity. Now, how can we do that. To be achieved is the people in position look like the opposers. How can we, or how is this achieved is the people with the black and brown folks go to do not have a full understanding on systemic racism. The systems in place are not working, and they are not changing. This was this past week and I asked a close friend, because we were having this discussion with he trade places. Sorry, it's a white male would he trace places with a black person in Vermont. And he answered the same way most of you will. I believe the answer. You would answer what mostly consist of economical status and opportunities. There's no doubt that black and brown folks are not treated equally, especially economically black folks did not actually come to this country, but we have built it with blood sweat and tears, literally, and building this country they ought to be systems in place to help black people. In Vermont, I have gone through various of these processes and looking for assistance in the past, most of them were not effective in realizing that I have joined for my research justice lines and ensure culture empowerment for our people. We have opened the first black on and by park organized center in Vermont, the Richard Kemp Center. This is deeper than the bill money or status. This paves a major path for equality. Thank you. Thank you, Isaac. Any questions for Isaac. Emma. Thank you. I have a question I just want to express real gratitude and to the witnesses who came in this afternoon and I have to catch up on a piece I had to step out for. But I think it's really helpful to hear voices of BIPOC for monitors from all over the states of all ages around ways the state can be really starting to think about policymaking and intentional policymaking to remedy the harms and to acknowledge the harms most importantly that historically has had faced by popular monitors but are still facing BIPOC for monitors and give a lot to learn in a committee that is really important to hear from all white folks at this point in commerce and I just really wanted to acknowledge and appreciate the time and I and to Mr. Chair's point we want to be in dialogue and not speaking on behalf of the chair but I just want to really reiterate the willingness to continue dialoguing and hearing from you beyond these few moments that you had to speak today. Thomas we still have 10 minutes or so. Are you able to get your testimony in within that time frame or would you prefer to come back. You're muted sir. I will try and get it in within seven minutes if possible. I don't want. I don't want you to have to speed through. But I mean if we go, if we go over a few minutes when we're not going to hold it against you. I will try not try to keep within the time frame. So I want to thank you for allowing me to speak. And the comments that I offer are first of all in support of House bill 406 with a note of caution. And I will share that note of caution in my remarks. As you know I am a student and fan of history convinced that we cannot fully know who we are where we are or where we are going until we know from where we've come and how we got there, how we got here. In addition, we must embrace the upsetting truth that our country was built on a history of racial bigotry and broken promises where land was stolen from indigenous people and freely given freely given through the homestead act to whites to settle and develop The people of African descent were stolen from their lands and forcibly enslaved to promote the cotton and tobacco industry that built America into the world's richest economy. Whereas representative Dickinson mentioned the GI bill and other legislation was enacted to ensure home ownership to whites and deny such privileges to black and brown people. To ensure real equity and income to assure their children a better education, better jobs and lifestyles denied by Americans. Martin Luther King Jr. at the March on the wall. In 1963 said, some artens capitalistic and words of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promise air note to which every American was to fall air. This note was a promise that all would be guaranteed and inalienable rights today that America has defaulted on this promise or in so far as for citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring the sacred obligation he goes on to say America has given us a bad check, which has come back marked insufficient funds, but we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand, the riches of freedom and the security of justice. House bill 406 invokes the spirit of this 20th century profit by saying paying payment is long overdue. It provides House bill one or six provides one of the means by which reparations may be pursued by initiating the means by which economic opportunities may be provided to segments of our population long denied and most deserving of such privileges. And by so doing develops and attracts a labor force that will strengthen the economic development of the entire state. Now many whites ignorant of their history will naturally complain why them and not us. And we must be equipped and prepared to answer with the historical context and modern day legacies of systemic racism that warrants our decision on this matter. Recognizing still that in the many cases whatever answer we provide will not be sufficient for many. We will therefore needs to be a process to which much adjustment will be needed and made the closest historical parallel I can provide is the period of reconstruction reconstruction, following the civil war for much economic and political investments were made for black Americans against the backdrop of white bigotry and resistance. Expect a similar sort of response today, and this politically advice that divisive politically ideologically divided culture. Expect the sort of response, even today, even in Vermont. My faith tradition says that the apostle Paul and describing the body of the church said this if one member suffers, we all suffer and if one member is honored we all rejoice. It is time to draw an end to centuries of suffering people of color in our nation have endured and provide the means and privileges by which we all may rejoice. As we develop a black lead and by popular initiatives in economic and social investments within Vermont. We need to be aware keenly aware that people of color in this state feel victimized and untrusting of the criminal justice system. And we do not want to find ourselves in the position of a developing economic centers and economic opportunities for black and brown people, only to find ourselves experiencing a repeat of the Tulsa Wall Street. We don't want bombings and riots that were that were inflicted against by black led entrepreneurial efforts. We don't want that and so, as we talk about developing economies for black and brown people we also need to talk about how to secure those efforts. Questions for Reverend Thomas. Mr chair, Charlie. Reverend Thomas have you considered a career in the ministry, I think you'd be very good at it. But seriously thank you for your testimony it's a very, very motivational thank you. Other questions. I think I think we all can assure you that we what we want is that all Vermonters have the opportunity to be educated and better themselves and to enjoy a fruitful life and to be very participating members of our society, which includes everyone. So to that end, I think you'll see us try to work to that to those to those ends. We did find out you're correct that BGS is backlog. However, I think we will make it known that we're extremely disappointed that we were led to believe that the contract was already out and that we were expecting a report next week that apparently we're not going to get and that we weren't contacted and notified to that effect so thank you for letting us know that and we need to push a little harder on the administration to get that to get that contract out. So that we can get the information and the groundwork set. So thank you for that. Everyone that joined us today. Mark and Mary Beth Reverend Thomas. And all the others that aren't with us any longer we thank you for your for your time that you spent with us this afternoon. It was very enlightening for us educational. And we will continue to work on 406 and see how much we can get done. So thank you have a good weekend. If any of you are driving be extremely careful. I don't know what it's like and where you're at now but the snow started to fall up here again in Northeast Kingdom so I know it's been pretty slippery out there. Thank you Mr chair. Thank you again. Thank you to committee any questions before we sign off. Good. Great. Thank you everyone.