 Hi again, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the latest event in our spirituality series. My name is Jessica Colligan, and I'm happy to welcome you on behalf of Fairfield Alumni Relations Office. With me this evening are Father Jim Bowler, who many of you know from his decades of service to the Fairfield community, and Father Frank Hannafi, who was also a member of our community for many years, and he is now in Philadelphia at Old St. Joseph's Church. We are so grateful and really very lucky that both of them have stayed connected to and involved with the university, and we're just so happy to have both of them with us tonight. Before we kick things off, I want to ask that you please make sure your microphones are muted to minimize any distractions. And I also recommend that you use the speaker view in Zoom rather than gallery view just to make sure that your screen stays focused on our featured speakers. Finally, we encourage you to use the chat. If you have any questions for Father Hannafi, we will do our best to get to as many of them as possible if time allows at the end of the conversation. And now I will turn things over to Father Bowler. Thank you very much. It's actually a pleasure for me to interview Frank tonight. I would just like to make, I knew Frank very well when we were at Fairfield. I'd like to just stress three points about him that really impressed me. One was his competence as a theologian and as a professor, and how seriously he took that. But then he had a certain balance in his life. There was the artist. It was something that he did extremely well. And finally, there was that Jesuit marches, the effort he put in in learning Chinese, so he could go to China. So you couple of those three things, and you encounter a rather extraordinary Jesuit. And so Frank, let me begin by saying, asking you the question, how did you meet the Jesuits. Thank you very much, Jim, for that very kind introduction and also just before I talk about how I first met the Jesuits just would like to thank all of you for coming tonight. That's very wonderful to see so many of my Fairfield friends, a special thanks also to Jessica Colligan and also to Janet Kanapa for inviting me tonight. How did I meet the Jesuits. How long do you have, I would say, actually, my way into the Jesuits and meeting the Jesuits might have been somewhat an indirect path, I might say. For example, I never went to a Jesuit school or Jesuit parish growing up. In fact, I would say that my vocate what what I felt or at least experience to be the early movements or inklings of a vocation for me probably got very serious when I was about a sophomore university student, and I wrote a letter actually to the Jesuits expressing what I thought was some interest. Interestingly, I initially for me it was kind of feeling a call to the priesthood. And I was maybe considering the diocesan group and then there were a couple other groups I was looking at. For example, the Holy Cross Fathers who are Notre Dame and then, and then I wrote to the Jesuits in Boston, and I, a couple weeks later I got a letter from the one and only Father Joseph McCormick, who many of you may know who was at Fairfield years and I was a student up in New Haven and at the State University up there and he said I was I'm coming down to Fairfield, Connecticut. Would you like to come down in and meet me and have a conversation. So I said sure so I the first Jesuit I ever met actually was Father Joseph McCormick on Fairfield University's campus, which is when I think about how much the trajectory of my life how how fascinating that was because I ended up of course spending many years at Fairfield. And in fact I can even remember the first place I, I met him, and that was in the old Bellarmine Hall, which when it was serving as the Jesuit community. And I met Father McCormick there and in what I think in the old days was maybe the library. And then we had a lovely conversation I was telling him all the things I thought I wanted to do with my life. And then he listened very patiently and then he just looked at me and had one question and said, Do you pray. Anyway, after that he invited me to enter the Jesuit candidacy program. And, and at that time I got to know a couple Jesuits by attending some of those meetings. And then my believe it or not my spiritual director before I entered was a very well known Jesuit in the new Old England province father, Jack post Father john post, who was injured in the Great Shadow Brook fire. And he at that time was at Fairfield, and I remember I would drive down from the haven and, and visit him occasionally when I was still a candidate for the society. And, and that kind of led me into it I took my time, I, I graduated from college, and then I think about a year and a half and a half after I graduated from college, or so then I entered the Jesuits and went into the immediate in Boston at the, the infamous 300 Newberry street was where we had our novitiate in those days. So basically, I kind of entered the Jesuits through some personal contacts with Father Joe McCormick Father john post. And then I began to meet some of the other guys in those days, who were interested in the Jesuits. So again my case is a little unique and that I never went to a Jesuit school never went to a Jesuit parish. The one thing that really attracted me to the Jesuits was the kind of work they did, both in education and in missionary work, and I found them just to be really impressive guys and so that's kind of how I entered in. I was one of my classmates maybe some of you may know him, because he does have some Fairfield you ties. I entered the novitiate on the same day with Father Andrew Garaville. He and I were novice together at 300 Newberry street, and he and I were everywhere in the society together until we were sent off to theology. Sometimes they used to call us the Frank and Andy show. We became good friends and still are. And some of the other guys I was with Father john Savard Father Greg Chisholm. And a whole whole interesting list of people but that's kind of the short version of how I found my way in to the Jesuits and you know what's the old saying. I'm not sure what I would I think of a group that would have someone like me as a member, but it seems to have worked out, you know, I, I've been a Jesuit since 1981. I was ordained to the priesthood in 1993. I spent a good number of years at Fairfield I was in Chicago and Berkeley California. And then down in Central America for my novice experiment in Belize, which was formerly British Honduras and then, and then I started getting interested in China but I think we'll talk about China later but I, I spent time both in Hong Kong and a Beijing and other parts of China. But, but probably my home base. Definitely my home base as a Jesuit that where I spent the longest amount of time, maybe aside from studies, being in school forever but was that Fairfield and Fairfield University in fact I had two major assignments at Fairfield. My agency period was at Fairfield from 1986 to 1989 I believe it was, and, and then I returned after graduate studies and after ordination graduate studies and I began teaching in the Religious Studies Department in 1998. Fairfield is in many ways been my home in the Jesuits in the US and I have a, I still can't believe I'm not there sometimes I wake up in the morning and I kind of. Maybe this was after dealing with jet lag from China, the first few minutes when you wake up after flying back and forth to China you're not really sure where you are. And sometimes I almost feel like I'm back at Fairfield but I'm here in Philadelphia now so. Let me ask you this question okay because you made a decision to get a doctorate in theological ethics at Lyola. What was behind that decision Frank, and can you say something about your doctoral work in preparation for coming to Fairfield. Sure thank you Jim sure you know it's funny, I think in many ways my academic kind of interest began. Well, ultimately I think it began in my family my parents always encouraged us you know in studies and learning. And I, when I was an undergraduate I, I had a double major in economics and religious studies and kind of an unusual combination of course. And after my philosophy studies in Chicago, after the division, the Jesuits gave me the permission to go and get a, an MBA degree, which I did in Chicago in finance and marketing that was like a two year program to your full time program so I went from philosophy into MBA studies, because I, I really thought I kind of felt drawn and attracted to business people, and wanting to figure out a way to somehow minister to business people. My father was a business person and I, many of my uncles and aunts and my, my two brothers went into business and a business was always kind of in my life. I felt drawn to business people from any ways for their, to their creativity and their focus and all and also their importance in the world. So I somehow I really think it came out of my prayer ultimately but, but I felt this kind of attraction to learn the language of business, if you will, and finance and marketing. So I went off and did this MBA program. And when I was in the MBA program, and then when I was teaching at Fairfield back in the business school as part of my Regency, I began to feel drawn to questions of business ethics. And so my friend and colleague Larry Vitellano and Donna Larry and I have done some research together in business ethics over the years and so this interest in business ethics got going. And that kind of kind of continued for some years so then when I went out to Berkeley for theology studies prior to ordination, you know I took some really good courses in Catholic social thought with John Coleman and others and I began trying to look at in my own reading and the, the intersections between, you know, the church's mission in the world and in economic life. I mean certainly one of the things that, you know, Catholic social teaching has to deal with has to do with his, you know addressing questions of, of the social and political dimensions of, of the world and human life. And so I got very interested in those questions and I became very interested in questions of economic justice and I wrote my, I was very captivated by the US bishops pastoral letter on the US economy that came out in 1986. Economic justice for all in fact I wrote one of my theses in Berkeley, my so called fourth year thesis on on that on the principle of immigration in, in Catholic social thought. So while I was in both in Regency and also in theology studies. I just became very interested in questions of economic ethics and business ethics so I wanted to continue with it. Well it seemed a little crazy because at that point, you know, you know you sort of there in studies forever. You know at that point I've been in formation for like, you know, how many years, gosh, I think it was like about 17 years or something. And then that but then I decided that I really wanted to do to get a PhD in in in theological ethics so that I could find a way to work with business people and and on another level also help the church I think. And the Jesuits be able to be in dialogue with, you know, those kinds of questions and to be able to, you know, deal with those questions so anyway I went off to Loyola Chicago and I did a degree there in theological ethics with a focus on business ethics. And I had a, you know, both my program was both in the theology department and the in the graduate school of business. I worked a lot with this guy, John Boatwright, who is the Raymond Baumhardt Professor of business ethics at Loyola Chicago. I ended up using his book for many years at Fairfield in a business ethics and you know taught pretty much every year. And I had a course in business ethics for Fairfield you students. So anyway, it kind of Jim I guess that's a long answer but I would say that it just a kind of a number of things came together in my formation, both academically and also in the Jesuits and quite frankly another part of it for me was, you know, when I was down in Central America and then when I was in Berkeley there were just you know the problems of homelessness. And that's an example and, which is a huge problem here in Philadelphia, right now, we're very near to where the church is right now where I work. So I think it was both academic questions but then also my life is a Jesuit, you know, thinking that that if I was going to be able to say or do anything that's reasonable in in those questions that I had to, you know, get the training and and the Jesuits said yes to it. One of my brothers called me. He had been in corporate America for quite a few years I was about turning 40 years old when I began my full time tenure track teaching position at Fairfield you, and my brother called me on my first day and said I want to congratulate you, you're just about turning 40 and you finally have a full time job, and you're not in school anymore. So, it was kind of a long, long but interesting road but, but I also found that it made sense. You know, and then it kind of opened many doors for me personally just to be able to be with Fairfield you undergraduates for many years and as I worked at Fairfield I also found that a major part of my work was with the faculty there. And being in dialogue with faculty I was on the pretty much ever since I had been there on the applied ethics, what do they call it the applied ethics committee or something council, but I worked a lot with David Schmidt in applied ethics and developing programs and courses and, and with, you know, some of the great business faculty there and others so I would say that, you know, it kind of worked out for me but, but then I made a decision by the way. To after about I guess about nearly a total of 25 years of Fairfield if you count my Regency period that I, as I was getting a little older I you know kind of felt that I kind of wanted to do something else and, and that's kind of how the China thing got going but before look before we get to China let me just make one comment and then ask you a question about Fairfield comment that I can't help but notice is your two majors as an undergraduate economics and religion, you know, and that kind of has been your intellectual history of since your undergraduate years, the relationship between the two. I think so. But I'd like to getting to your time at Fairfield, could you talk about some of the other highlights you have during your 25 years at Fairfield. I know the applied ethics was your love and very important contribution but just some other memories that you might have. Sure, Jim, thank you for the question and, first of all, I, I really felt and still feel in many ways that Fairfield was and is my home in the, in the Jesuits in the US and I don't know if any Jesuits ever have a home. I lived, well, there's so many things I could talk about I, I lived in the residence halls for many years as I know you did Jim as well and I see Charlie Allen there is a resident Jesuit for many years I many of us lived in the dorms so you know a major part of my life. I lived in the Tosca Hall for many years and then afterwards up at Dolan Hall. And I would first of all say just life with the students, you know was just a wonderful highlight. You know students outside of the classroom in all the joys and, and celebration of that and also some challenges I, you know certainly remember on a number of occasions the tragic loss of some students. I remember Alex Carrion, for example, who happened to be was my student who was in the Ignatian College program, who died suddenly in a sleep one night from some kind of, I believe it was a heart issue. I also another major highlight for me I was kind of on the ground floor, one of the original persons faculty persons who was involved with the Ignatian residential college. I was invited to kind of teach in that and taught in that for a good number of years. You know working with students who sort of kind of selected to be in that program, which and they were just extraordinarily extraordinary young women and men. So I the first thing I would say Jim would be the would be the Jesuits. I'm sorry would be the students, you know working with the students both inside and outside of the classroom. Gosh, there's so many wonderful memories. I would say another part of it for me was being close to New York City. I think that my father was born to raise in New York, and I have family and friends in New York City so I would you know jump on the train on the weekends and get into the city like many people at Fairfield and I would say that was also kind of a highlight in my time at Fairfield as well and and often I remember early in my time at Fairfield we would run programs for high school students and we would take them into events in New York. The college so called college access program was something we did early on. I know I was doing that. I think in the mid 80s. I would also say, working with some of the questions around Jesuit mission and identity. As you know very well Jim, you know, I know when you were doing a lot of that work. You know, Jesuits who worked in the university like Father Alan yourself and others, you know, we would be involved often with in conversations with faculty, and with staff and I remember when Father von Arks was president, and when he came in. He, you know, he kind of started pushing that question I think pretty hard and, you know, there were lots of wonderful conversations and retreats, you know weekend retreats and events with with faculty. Yeah, there's so there's so many things and, and I would also say, working with my colleagues in the religious studies department as well was a really important highlight of my first of all they put up with me for so many years. And at one point I probably because probably most of them didn't want to do the job I remember at one point, they asked me to be the chair of the religious studies department and, you know, so I was working kind of managing that department and the adjuncts in that department and then working with the administration and all that was also kind of a highlight as well I would say, you know, in a way being able to serve my, my faculty colleagues in that way. I think I spent a lot of time in meetings during those years. This was pre zoom. So all most of those meetings were in person and I remember I served on the, I think it's called the undergraduate curriculum committee, and I remember some of those conversations when conversations were heating up about the core curriculum and everything in the early days, you know, and so luckily I was not. I was not part of those more, at least directly part of those more recent discussions where, you know, basically discussions around the core really essential in all universities so you know I was involved in that early on and so there are many highlights Jim but I would say ultimately working with the students you know I love being with them in the classroom. I love being with them in the residence halls. And, you know, there was a sense of really being a Jesuit on the campus as well. I think one of the challenges I would just mention, I mentioned my little escapes to New York. One of the challenges probably was, you know, being on the campus. And you had to make a kind, I mean, in the sense that you had to make a conscious effort to get off the campus. And, you know, my whole world sort of was, you know, the classroom the dormitory, the Jesuit residents. I'm also saying masses by the way in Egan Chapel I was pretty active in, you know, doing that over the years and so one of the things I found to try to be healthy or at least to try to stay healthy was to make sure I at least once a week, kind of got off the compound and so I would, you know, sometimes jump on the train and go into New York and or go up to New Haven I used to love the museums up in New Haven and but, and at that point my mother and father were living down in South Florida so I would you know get on a plane and go down to visit them a couple times a year in Florida. And, but it just you know it was a wonderful wonderful time in my life really being at Fairfield. You talked about your how much you enjoyed being with students. I remember during semester exams, how when you were living in Costco how you used to go out and get donuts and coffee for them to help fortify them to study for the evening you know I used to marvel you doing that I would go out they would give me a budget the university would give me a budget of, you know, whatever the number was. And so, so I would do to flee spend that you know running programs. I did feel a little guilty about that Jim, basically plying the students with caffeine and sugar. And I used to tease them that I would get larger numbers of them coming to the Dunkin Donuts study break social, more of them coming to that and I would to mass in the, in the lounge. So, but they were pretty good about coming to mass in the lounge to. Yeah, it was a really nice way to, to meet the students during the exam period and to be with them, you know, kind of informally, and also it was kind of a nice way, especially at the end of the semester to kind of say goodbye to them if you know if they were leaving the dorm, you know, or if they were graduating or, you know, moving to another dorm or whatever. So it was kind of a nice closure thing so I tried to do it at least a couple times this semester and they loved it and I would go around and put up signs and everything and, of course they thought it was wonderful I would, you know, like, fill up the backseat of my car with a couple of dollars worth of, you know, those boxes of Joe and, you know, tons of donuts and stuff but yeah it was really fun. And, but I did occasionally feel guilty about the caffeine and the sugar, but, but hopefully they didn't do that every day. Let's move on to China because I remember, in addition to the all your full time commitments there, just taking a course with undergraduates in the Chinese language, you know, and just how hard you worked at that. And so perhaps to say something about your interest in China, how you left Fairfield for China, and anything else you'd like to say about all that. Thank you Jim, sure. I've been interested in China for many years, I think in a way it kind of began initially with some of my visits to Chinatown and Manhattan over the years I would you know, often I'd be alone and I'd walk through Chinatown and I would see the signs, the Chinese language on signs for stores and restaurants, etc. And I was kind of captivated by the visual culture, the visual language, but then also I found it to be this kind of other world that I felt really attracted to. I don't know whether it was the kind of Buddhist like quality or the kind of inner quiet that many people from Asia kind of exude. There was a certain kind of spirituality and goodness ultimately that and mystery I would also say that I experienced in the Chinese people. And I also became initially fascinated with Chinese calligraphy like when I would go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and go into the China galleries there I would you know look at this calligraphy. And most Chinese calligraphy is, you know, based on the characters of the Hanze, they call it the characters from the Chinese language and many of those characters are actually quite ancient. And so I began to just kind of on my own a little bit, you know, got some books and things and began to study some of the characters. And then I, maybe this happened by the way after I served as department chair I had a little more time so my dear friend Xi Wei Xiao who is still at Fairfield University she's a modern language professor in in Chinese language she's from Wuhan, China, originally, I called her one day and asked if I could come over and speak with her and asked if I could maybe audit or take her class in Chinese language so I began studying with her in in Chinese, the Chinese language and you know it's kind of plotted along at it I think for a while. And then I, then I had a sabbatical year come up and I had the opportunity. I met this Jesuit, Stefan Rothland who's a Jesuit from Switzerland originally, who was working in Beijing and in Hong Kong and he worked in business ethics. And I became into I got in touch with him, and he needed some help in Hong Kong. So I basically packed up and went to Hong Kong for about a year and a half on a research sabbatical. And so, and I continued my studies in Mandarin while I was in Hong Kong, although, of course in Hong Kong they speak Cantonese Guangdong Wah they call it. But um, so I was working and interestingly I was working in this business ethics organization in Hong Kong, and also studying Chinese language at the same time. And then I made some trips up into Beijing and in other parts of China I have some friends who live in Guizhou province of China in near the city of, actually in the city of Guiyang, which is in, it's kind of next to Szechuan province it's in, I guess you'd call it Southwest China. And so anyway my first introduction really to China was through this sabbatical year that I had in base primarily in Hong Kong. And it kind of, and then I made some trips up into the mainland I very much remember my first visits into the mainland. And I, I just loved it, I felt so drawn to it and, in fact there was a Jesuit originally from France who was a missionary. He died a couple years ago, who he wrote in Buddhism, a lot in Buddhism. His name was Christopher Cochini actually he's very well known for some of the things he wrote in Buddhism. He used to come to Hong Kong about one week a month, because his visa only allowed him to stay for three weeks that's kind of how they, he was controlled up there by the anyway I won't go into all that but he asked me how I felt after my first visit into the mainland I told him I couldn't wait to go back and he started laughing and says I see Frank that you've now have the China virus. Meaning that people who are interested in China once you go there, the virus kind of gets into your body by the way not a virus to hurt you. Like the virus we've been dealing with the past 14 months but rather your interest and your love of China kind of increases many times over after being there and of course I made friends there and you know I kept speaking trying anyway to speak Chinese and it really helps a lot of course to be able to communicate with people in their own language of course. And so I kept trying even though my tones weren't the best all the time you know I would just keep practicing and talking with people as often as I could in Chinese and anyway so that's that was my first kind of connection really in a serious way with China, and then I came back to Fairfield and you know was working at Fairfield for a couple years, and then I would go back to China in the summers. And then Father von Arks invited me to go over once or twice to to for with a couple programs for Fairfield students over there. With Donka Lee, I think I went over a couple times with Professor Donka Lee from the history department. That was mostly during the summers and then after I would usually go down to Hong Kong after our program, but then kind of out of the blue. You know at that point I was thinking that maybe I should do something different in my Jesuit life. And I my prayer kind of was, well Lord, I'm not sure about any of this I mean if you want me to stay at Fairfield. I have a wonderful life at Fairfield. And then I had a meeting with Father John Cicero the provincial. He asked me if I would be willing to go to Beijing, because they really needed a Jesuit in Beijing at the Beijing Center for Chinese studies. And he asked me this directly. And I, you know, I must say it was a little startling but more when I think about it it actually made sense. I mean the Jesuits in China in fact Stephen Chow who was just elected the Bishop of Hong Kong perhaps some of you have been reading about that I know Stephen very well. Stephen and others, you know, we're looking for a Jesuit for the Beijing Center. In fact, Father Gene Geinser, who was there for many years who I know Larry and Donna know very well personally was coming back to the US after about 12 years in Beijing. He really needed a Jesuit in Beijing. And I guess they were probably going down the list of American Jesuits, who could possibly do it. And so the provincial asked me to go to Beijing. And, you know, so funny when he asked me, I said well John that's very interesting. This was by by the way before all the unrest in Hong Kong, and all the protests in the street. So, John started wiggling in his chair this was the provincial of the my province at that time. And he said well Frank, I mean I know you like Hong Kong but we really need you in Beijing. So I said okay John let me think and pray about it for a couple days. So I called them and said okay I'm ready to go. And within six I forget when all this happened, maybe in January, or maybe late fall. And then that summer. I went to Beijing and, you know, for a long term mission in Beijing at the Beijing Center for Chinese Studies. And I think I spoke to many people at Fairfield about that experience, simply to say that in my prayer, I would say that it, I would say that the ultimate part of that discernment really was, you know, those years of and experiences of being attracted to China and drawn to China. And I must say that I, I still feel that you know if the Jesuits asked me to go back again I, I love being here at the parish but you know I, I think I'd go. Please don't tell Father Provincial that at least right now. But, you know, it's hard I felt, I feel the have felt and feel the, you know the church really needs to be there somehow. It's very difficult. But I would say that ultimately it had to do with this kind of mysterious feeling of attraction to the Chinese people, and to their faith, and to the church there, even in all of its struggle and you know, and it was kind of, it's where I think I needed to be and then of course I was over there and that's a whole other story but things got very complicated of course in China and the relations between the US and China and that's a whole long story but so anyway that's how I got there I'd say it was my attraction, my interest, my confirmation in prayer, and then ultimately the direct question of my provincial to go. And, you know, I felt that the good Lord was leading me there somehow and, you know, that's kind of how it happened and you'd still be there if it weren't for some visa problems. I think so, yes, I would very likely Jim still be there. Basically, the reason I came back after a little under two years, I probably spent a total of about three and a half years in China. Probably, if you counted all up maybe about four years. But basically I'm pretty sure that, you know the way that things are managed over there. Basically I had trouble renewing my visa. And I think part of that had to do with the complex very tense relationship between both the US and China at that time. And also some things that were going on in the university where I was the, where the Beijing Center was located, and there were also some kind of inter political things going on in the Beijing Center for Chinese studies as well, which was the the Jesuit that I was asked to go to to try to help. And, but yes, and, but it's a wonder was a absolutely wonderful experience, difficult but wonderful I would say, and I'm still in touch with a good number of my people over there my contacts over there and so yeah. Oh, how did you get to Philadelphia city of brotherly love. Oh, great question Jim. Thank you. Well, basically Johnson Sarah when it became clear that I pretty much had to leave China. I was in a conversation actually with Stephen Chow, the Bishop elect of Hong Kong. Who studied in the US and who's from Hong Kong originally he at that point was my provincial superior in in China. And so, you know, with some other judge what's over there. Basically, when it became clear that I had to leave. I had some communications and with maybe even a phone call with Johnson Sarah, who was then the provincial of the province of the recently discharged New York and New England province. And John, you know, said to me said Frank, you know, I know you've just had a very intense complicated experience in China. He said, as a transitional period, what do you think about coming back to New York City to help at St Ignatius Loyola Church in New York on the east side in the parish there. I really needed a priest, and I was available at that point I was still discerning my decision, you know, trying to decide whether I ultimately would return to Fairfield Fairfield was very wonderful to me they communicated that they wanted me to come back to the faculty. They all had tenure at Fairfield. And, you know, Dr Mark Nemek and my colleagues in the department and Christine Siegel the provost at that time and I think I think she may have been the AVP at that time I'm not sure what her exact title was but anyway they all wanted me to come back but I wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do. I was just a sero and plus I was, you know, you know, probably dealing with all kinds of culture shock and all kinds of other things. But I came back pretty tired but john asked me if I would go to St Ignatius in New York, and then I was there for maybe about four and a half five months. And john's the provincial office was right around the corner from the from the parish air of course so then I had a number of meetings with the provincial. And then we kind of came to the point that I still needed to some time to decide you know what I really wanted to do and I still kept you know I had my tenure still but he asked me if I would accept a mission in Philadelphia. And he said at old St Joseph church, and you know I came down here for a visit. And so then I that's kind of how I ended up here I, I said yes to that invitation and, and then it so happens. This past January, the pastor of the parish here left the parish and then since that time they've asked me to be the administrator of the parish. So it's been very very interesting it's a wonderful parish to blocks from Independence Hall and the old part of the city and the old so called old, well I guess he would call it society hill and the old historic district of Philadelphia it's a very old church was founded by the Jesuits in 1733 it's the oldest Roman Catholic Church and the first Roman Catholic Church in the city of Philadelphia, and actually probably one of the oldest churches in Catholic churches in America. I think there are a couple others that are a bit older. So one of the original Jesuit missions into the city of Philadelphia, you know it's funny whenever I think about the church here. It was founded in 1733, and that was even before the United States of America was founded, you know, in terms of, you know, 1776 so it has a very long, long history here and it's a wonderful church, a very diverse community. Very interesting interesting community and so I'm basically trying my hand now at running a parish. And it's a lot of fun tough to you know, we're in the budget cycle right now so we're trying to get the budget all lined up, but doing a lot of preaching a lot of work with parishioners and we run a very vibrant and active outreach program to the homeless here we have a meal for the homeless. Three days a week. We do lots of other things with the homeless. We also have a hospital ministry here pencil University of Pennsylvania hospital is a couple blocks away from us so we do a lot of work with Penn hospital. So I become a parish priest now in a way and running this parish and really interesting, you know very a tremendous amount of involvement by lay women and men here. So in many ways I often say that they're, they're allowing me to collaborate with them. You know we talk a lot about Jesuit collaboration but lots of great people in the community here so it's been a lot of fun. And it's very interesting being in Philadelphia to and I can walk to the Chinatown in Philadelphia, which is about 15 minutes from here from the parish and so there's great Chinese food. And some made some Chinese friends here so yeah it's a wonderful city but of course, it's also been a very difficult 14 months here as I know it's been for all of you. So I'm trying to figure out how to keep a parish going during the pandemic and, you know, adapting to all of the protocols for cobit and, and then a financially trying to keep the parish going obviously whoever invented the idea of online I really want to thank them, but we're basically okay many parishes who've not had electronic office Tory, you know contributions to the parish or real trouble now financially, but we've been able to our, the parish parishioners here and our friends, the friends of the parish. It's something called the historical preservation corporation which I kind of run as the administrator, you know, because we have this very very old, excuse me, very old historic church. So we have a lot of obligations to keep the church, you know, going and it's also, you know, a historical landmark, you know, it has all kinds of landmark restrictions on it and everything so, you know, it's a very very interesting place I hope you come down to visit sometime, be happy to give you a tour. It's a very beautiful church. I get the sense that you're energized by what you're doing there. Thank you, Jim. Yes, I am. I really am. You know, I came to, it was very hard for me to decide to, you know, kind of conclude my work at Fairfield it was just a wonderful and is still a wonderful part of my life. But I felt that I was coming to the age, you know, if I didn't make a kind of, I also would say to, by the way, it wasn't, you know, as you get a little bit older I don't know if I was ever good in the classroom but only my students maybe could say that but I also, as you get a little older, you know, the students kind of, I would, I learned over the years teaching college students that about every three to five years they go through some kind of major transition or change. And I think for many years I was getting that change I was understanding them. And then they're my last couple years at Fairfield. I think I was kind of a little bit at sea, quite frankly understanding my new batch of students and I think it was, it wasn't them it was me. I wasn't, I was, I was like they're, I was old enough to be their grandparent, of course, and I love them, but I also felt that, you know, that there, I wasn't as quite frankly I don't know if I was as sharp in the classroom as I was in my earlier days, you know, and I was thinking that, you know, also I had a tenure position there, you know, maybe it would be great to let some other really good, hopefully some good, not necessarily very good, but, but to let a younger person come in and teach them and I also did have this, you know, calling I think to China and to other work and so I think that ultimately led to the decision but I think part of it was you know, also, I know those of you who are teachers understand this, you know, teaching full time, teaching full time in a university and you know, it was, I was also feeling that I had to admit, I was getting really tired, quite frankly, and I don't know if I was as sharp and then all these other things were opening up in my life and, and so I decided, you know, and then of course when the provincial asked me to go off to China. I think that was in a way kind of a confirmation for me that it was time to leave but you know, I think I would just say Jim quite frankly, I think one of the wonderful many wonderful things of Jesuit life, and is that you have this opportunity and invitation often to do many different things in your life. And I feel that I've had that fortunately and I've been very fortunate in my life have had that experience where the Jesuits have asked me to do many different things and then the Jesuits have enabled me to follow many of my own personal and academic interests they basically just encourage me, you know, along the way and, and so I, you know, my time at Fairfield I just feel tremendous gratitude for, for my time at Fairfield and, and yeah I'm really grateful and very happy I, I felt like I feel like I kind of left before, you know, I could have stayed there forever and then maybe they would have had to kick me out, you know, if I can, you know, if I, you know, started getting such in the classroom that you know I just wasn't as sharp anymore, but that wouldn't be good so I felt, you know, I kind of left after a good run there I think I had a pretty good run and left full of gratitude and, you know, it's just such a wonderful place, you know, quite frankly, a couple of my friends who are still professors. I don't personally know how I would do with this online learning stuff. Oh, it's so hard, you know, and so I don't know whether the good Lord was drawing me out before the COVID pandemic, knowing that I would be a disaster, trying to teach on zoom, I don't know. But anyway, I'm very grateful for Fairfield. I just bring this to an end and turn it back to Jessica, but it was one comment. There's not a doubt in my mind would have mastered online learning and mastered it well like you've done everything else. Oh, really? Oh, thank you Jim. Oh, thank you. Well, if I could be so direct and say, you know, seeing yourself and Father Allen and Mary Francis and Larry and Donna, you know, I miss so many of my Fairfield friends. Very Janet and Jessica, you know, I as I say I really am very fond of all of you and found and George Diffley, who I was with for many years at Fairfield, Joan Weiss, so many good good people at Fairfield. And so no, I'm, I'm grateful. So thank you, Jim. I, I, you know, it's funny. I've been doing a hell of a lot of zoom meetings, you know, working in this role down at the past as the administrator of the parish. So, you know, maybe I've learned a little something at that but, but I'm really so grateful that to see you all here tonight and thank you for listening and thank you for being on with us tonight. So again, thank you. And on the other hand, if we have just a few minutes left but we've gotten a couple of questions. This first one is not about you it's more specifically about China so if it's something you would rather me connect you with the alumnus to discuss offline just let me know that but the question is, today is, is it more important for an individual to identify as a Han Chinese than to identify as a communist Chinese. Very good question. Very good question. I would, I'm not sure of the answer quite frankly I certainly the by far the majority of Chinese people are of the Han Han ethnicity. But quite frankly, I don't know. I could say that, you know, there are quite a few people I know in China, and have worked with who are members of the party, and, but interestingly that is kind of a, it's not really talked a lot about in public, I would say, I would say that, now obviously if you're, you're working directly in a government position, you know, you know many people are aware of, you know, your, your affiliation. But I think that the primary, I think that the primary identification would be being Chinese. And I think interestingly, even that, you know, that happens for people from Chinese people in other countries as well. So I think of the Chinese people I meet like in Philadelphia, for example. The one thing I would say also is that in a question like that, which is a very good question by the way I thank the person asking it. When someone asked me like a broader more general question like what is it like in China. One thing I would say initially is like which China do you mean, you know, the China of the big cities, the China of the rural agricultural areas. That's eastern coast part of China where many of the biggest cities are, for example, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Shenzhen, which is the large, very large city where they make all their iPhones and iPads just north of Hong Kong. I would say that I think the Chinese people are very proud people. And, but the interesting part of it is that there are many dialects in the language. So, so people, you know, identify, I think, more as Chinese, but what I would say, by the way, is China is a very diverse, extremely diverse society, regionally, linguistically, culturally. But I would say that I would, I, I don't know the exact number of people who I think this is public knowledge, I'm sure, if you did a Google search, you could find a number, you know, of what the, what the identification with it in terms of membership in the party. I do think that people who reach a high level of kind of material and personal success in China usually are members. And I think that usually helps, you know, in their kind of, shall you say, shall I say climbing the social ladder. I think my impression, I'm not an expert on this, but my impression would be the people primarily identify as being Chinese people. Great. And then the last question, someone, it's actually your friends Larry and Donna wanted to know what your insights are into the recent rise in anti-Asian hate in society. Yes. Thank you, Larry and Donna. First of all, it's very distressing, obviously, you know, on a personal level. The first thing I would say is misunderstanding. Dare I even use the word a terrible ignorance on the part of people who would obviously behave this way. And obviously, the violence part of it, the violence dimension is absolutely horrible and obviously illegal and a terrible example of hatred, really. But I would say, you know, that in many ways, and this may sound a little maybe surprising or shocking to people here tonight or when I might say this to other groups. I think in many ways, the Chinese people and the American people are more similar than they are different in terms of coming from a highly successful, highly sophisticated culture, an economic powerhouse. Both countries are obviously economically and politically very important to the world, and to the success of the world really. I do think that there's been there's a lot of rhetoric. The last five or 10 years that have taken place going back between both societies on both sides really. And, you know, it's funny when I was over in China and I would sometimes hear some of the rhetoric in the Western media about China. And I would say that a large percentage of it is factually wrong, or a lot of it quite frankly is propaganda on both sides, by the way, I would certainly say there's propaganda on both sides. There's clearly a competition now between both countries on that is very serious and a very, a very serious competition, business wise obviously economically politically culturally. I think the virus, some of the rhetoric and actually quite frankly in my opinion, and I'm not an expert or a scientist on this but I, but I, I think some of the things that were said about the origins of the virus. I don't know yet if, if those things that have been said rhetorically have been really shown scientifically to be true and I probably shouldn't go into a lot of great detail I think we all know what I'm talking about here but. I think some, some of that is connected to quite a bit of miss in my opinion personally misunderstanding about the origins and sources of the virus. And I don't think we know the facts on some of that yet. And I think. I think it's, I think part of it, let me just kind of maybe say one more thing. One of the reasons I think the Jesuits started the Beijing Center, many years ago is to try to help and encourage cross, cross cultural understanding between the People's Republic of China and the United States of America. Because I think most I'm not an expert in this either but most analysts around the world say that that relationship is perhaps one of the most important relationships between any two countries in the world today for all kinds of obvious reasons. And I think that one of the things one of the reasons I went to the Beijing Center is I think both countries need to understand each other better. Because I think there's a tremendous, a tremendous misunderstanding on both sides. And I think that one of the reasons is that quite frankly I think the Chinese people are better at learning the English language than Americans are in learning the Chinese language. And for all kinds of obvious historical reasons but I really think America has a major task before it quite frankly right now is to try to learn more about China. And, and that goes that's also true for the Chinese people, but I, but I think that some of the anti Asian violence and hatred quite frankly let's call it what it is comes out of a misunderstanding. And I really hope and pray, quite frankly that, you know, we can learn more about China, and that China can learn more about us. And the Chinese people are wonderful people. They are wonderful people. And, and I think both countries you know certainly both governments of both countries say that, you know they use the expression of win win, at least in business and economic relations I think, you know, we have to do all we can to avoid direct conflict between both countries, because that would be an absolute absolute disaster for the world. I think what we need is more understanding a willingness for greater dialogue. I'm sorry this probably sounds like a pep talk but I think really think that's partly behind some of what's been happening recently and it's it's heartbreaking quite frankly. I think that's probably a longer answer, Donna and Larry than you maybe hope for but that's the best shot I can give at least at the moment. Oh, Bukuchi, well hung out sing Larry your Chinese is very good. Well, thank you so much father Hanna fee thank you father bowler thank all of you for being with us tonight. The next event in the series will be with none other than father Charles Allen on June 15. Keep an eye out I will send the link to that when I send the email with the video link of the recording out to all of you. So we hope to see you for that on June 15 and thank you all again and have a great night. Thank you. Thank you all.