 I know a lot of people who were given a lot of shit and are super concerned successful because they were positioned to be successful, but deep down, you know. You know if you did it by yourself. You know what you were given. You know if, you know, how resilient you really are. And I think that in order to be really confident and to have a true sense of self and self-esteem, you have to be able to have self-efficacy to know that you could do it on your own. Off air, we were talking shit about somebody who we don't have to say their name, but I am curious because we were in that. You said. No, I will. Sounds like it. I was blushing. I was blushing on the last episode. It sounds like bed. No. So bad. Well, what's interesting, so we have a live audience in here, and so they've had this opportunity to have this, listen to this conversation, and you know, ironically, it wasn't, we didn't plan it to go this direction, but we've been talking about, you know, these people that we meet in this space, right? We've all, between you and Max and us, had the opportunity to meet a lot of these people that are, you know, super famous on YouTube or Instagram or podcast. Social media. Yeah. Social media, right? And I think the thing that draws us why we would consider you a friend, Max a friend is the authentic. And it's just amazing how rare it is that when you meet somebody, they're fucking real. Yeah, normal. It's almost more common when you meet one of these, you know, social media celebrities that they're, they're nothing like they portray, has that been your experience? Not only has that been my experience, I find it to be so disturbing. And I was saying this, we were talking, even before you walked into the room, you know, I think you see it more and more, I see, I think as you, as you get maybe more notoriety and more, I don't know, more popular on social media platforms, you see the, the claws come out more. And you also can see behind the curtain a lot more. But there's a few things that I find very interesting. I find it super interesting how there's different buckets. But at the end of the day, what really bothers me are people who are out there touting authenticity, being real and, you know, helping people, like giving back gratitude. Like you hate your, these are all like hashtags, you know, like it's about giving back. It's about paying it forward. It's about helping. And it's the same people who are the most like, they're, they're the most badly competitive, not in a good way competitive. They're, they are, they're, they're all, they're all social climbers, users, competitive, and it's an internet marketing game. And it's like snake oil salesman's like, that's how I feel. That's how I see it happening. I don't find there to be a lot of authenticity. I don't think any of these people are necessarily experts. I mean, what's great about you guys and why I like you guys truthfully is because you are an expert in something, right? Like you have like a background in, in fitness and health. And like that is what your platform is. You're not out there touting how to be, uh, an entrepreneur and all these other things, but not even doing it. Like you're practicing what you preach. You're, you know, you, you are, you have become great entrepreneurs. You have become these people that are doing certain things. And then you talk about it. But these people who are, I find like, it's like a money grab. Like how do I grab money off of this person and suck every dollar out of this person with this funnel, right? With all sales funnels. How can I like convert that, that person into a continually paying monthly user of something. Uh, it's, it's all a game of like how, what can I get out of you? And then who can I align myself that can help me? And if you cannot help me and if I cannot squeeze every contact and piece of information out of you, then you're, you're like discarded and not necessary. I got a story for you. I'm not going to say the person's name because I don't want to, uh, I don't want to, you know, call them out or whatever. But there's a person in our space, right? It rhymed, rhymed, rhymed. No, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, he had, he had, he had a pod, he has a podcast and it's, you know, it was relative. It was, it was, it was a little bigger than ours at the time, but we were coming up. And we wanted to, um, have him on the show, talk about being on his show. So Justin and I set up a meeting with him. Oh, I remember this. And he showed up and he was like, so big timed us. Like, yeah, well, you know, if you guys get to my level and one day you'll do this and like, blah, blah, blah. And Justin and I are sitting there like, what are you like? What's going on here? Like we're trying to, you know, make, make friends, make contact with each other, networking, networking, whatever posture, yeah. Total posture and total, whatever. Anyway, I don't know, like three years later, uh, this person has me on their show and we've surpassed them and the total change in the personality. Oh man, Sal, you're, you're this and oh, you guys are great. And if you need help, let me do this. I'll do that for you. Let me introduce you to these people. And I'm like, while he's talking, I'm literally texting these guys, literally while he's talking to me. I'm like, this guy's so full of shit. I'm never going to, I can't, I hate that. See, to me, this is like, this is like the crux of it. This is exactly, I think this is what happens more often than not. I mean, what happens, I also think to your point, sometimes you meet these people and they're so nice to your face and like, oh, yeah, you know, it's like these, it's like these blatant, like this, this like polyannic words that everyone keeps on saying because they're like, I'm here to support you and let me know how I can support you. And this is like, it's like this, it's like this molasses. They vomit on you, right? And it's so empty and shallow. And so like, for example, for this whole book, you know, I'm on this whole book launching, you know, situation right now. And it's, it's so, there's so much anxiety around it and like so much pressure because you, you want to be able to go out there and like talk about your book. And so you go back to the people that you kind of help promote, you know, you kind of like collaborate with the same person or this person who you've had on and they, they give you some like, you know, I don't like, just a bunch of, like basically like a bunch of lies. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's crickets on their end, but when they need something, they're like all over you, like, you know, like white on rice. And then when you like text them, DM them, it's like, they're, they're gone. There's, it's, it's such, it's such a, the friendships are so vapid and empty. So it's also bad business because it's such bad business. You want to be in the irony of this is if you do this, if you do this for the business reasons, it's not going to really, it's not as authentic, obviously, but the irony is you don't know who's on their way up and so by, you know, big timing people or whatever, later on that person, you know, maybe it may help you out or may have something that you need or whatever, but now you've kind of treated that bridge, you've earned that bridge or kind of treated them like shit because people have a long memory. I do anyway, right? Like, I may not, I may not call you out right away. If I don't know you, like I've texted you, I've DM'd you, I've called you and I've gotten zero responses. Okay, fine, but then it's in my head and more often than not, in my opinion, and I've always learned is the people who actually end up helping you the most in life or the people you least expect. So never, never just disregard and discard people that you think are quote unquote below you, right? Like, I remember we talked about this when I was on your show for the first time. I remember the second time. I don't remember. You didn't want to have me on your show. You're like, who is this girl? Yes, I know you did tell me that's why I, that's why I like you within two minutes. Thank you. I fell in love with you guys too. But like, it's like people have such a myopic and such a limited, like a ability to see beyond what's right in front of them. And you and I were talking about this, about this book or in general, how it's so easy to compartmentalize somebody or pigeonhole someone and thinking that's their only value in life. What's up, everybody? Today's giveaways maps power lift. This is a power lifting maps workout program. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Turn on notifications. If we declare you the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, there's only three days left for the at home holiday workout bundle, which includes all of these incredible workout programs. Now they would normally retail you for over $330, but this bundle priced all of them together for $99.99. So if you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below to get set up. All right. Here comes the show. Let me ask you this, Jen, because you're, I mean, people who know you know this, like the more you watch you, the more you see what you do, the more remarkable. Oh, come on. I know. I'm going on. No, no, no, no. No, I swear to God, half the time you should see we're in here and we'll go by your Instagram and see like you interviewed another, like, how does she do it? Like she meets with the most incredible people. She says she's going to do something. She literally does it. She should have been an ex-games athlete, right? That was a surprise. I was like, what is this? Everyone says that, but it's not. I'm so mad you could have posted that clip because you, I can't believe the shit that you do. I should wear pants next time. Oh, come on. I can have the editors in. I mean, true, true. I'll tell you this. I think it's really important that, that's what I'm saying, you never should call anyone out because you don't know what's behind closed doors. Do you find that you get underestimated? My, of course, my whole life I've been underestimated. Why do you think that is? You know what? I don't know. Depends on like what, what bucket I fall into, right? Depending on who I'm talking to and when I'm talking to them, right? So like, I can be, if I, like, and I'm not saying that I am, but if somebody finds me cute, then she can't be smart, right? If I'm smart, then I can't be athletic, right? If I'm too athletic and too fit, then I can't be competent, like in other areas. Then I'm only good in fitness. It's like, no matter what I'm, if I, if I dominate or I'm really good in one thing, then it, it, it lessens the ability in people's minds that I can be good at something else. Like, where is it said or written that I can't, you know, not me only, I'm talking about anybody, that you can't be good in more than one thing if you put your mind to it. So to me, it's like, I think you can be good at anything you do if you actually have the discipline and desire to get good at it and practice it. Well, so this is kind of a hallmark of, in my opinion, of your personality is that you, and I ask you that question because I see that I see people underestimating you to their folly. Do you make that? You see me, Sal. Well, it's true, but, but you've, you've turned that into a superpower because I feel like it's like they don't, they underestimate you, which opens the door for you to go in and do what you're going to do. And I see you, I see you using that because you don't come out and try and be like, I do this, I do that. And it's like, please underestimate me. So you've turned it into a superpower. That's on purpose. Yeah. Well, yeah, it is on purpose because it happens, by the way, don't you, I feel like sometimes because it's happened so much in my life that I do feel like I constantly have a chip on my shoulder and have, and I have something to prove to myself, like the most, I don't really give a shit about what someone else feels as much until they actually do that, until they underestimate me. And in my head, like that, that, that long memory, I'm like, all right, I'm going to show that person, you know, and I'm going to show them the best way I can by just doing it really well and surpassing them or like being like, hmm, it's happened recently. There's a guy that everybody here knows he's very well known, very well known. He's a night, he's actually a good person, but he's, he has a lot of, he's got a lot of accoutrements that he was able to kind of elevate and become like really strong in the, in the, in, in the space of motivation, let's say, right. And, you know, I think he's got good intentions, but sometimes good intentions. Was that, was that saying, like sometimes it's like the path to hell, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Right, right, right. And so, like, you know, we talked about doing this kind of business together or that kind of business. And it never kind of like, it's constantly like flails, not because of me, but because of that person. And so, you know, what happened is, is that I'm like, all right, well, that's not going to, that's not going to work because I'm not going to chase somebody to that point where that I'm constantly going to like rely on that person. I got to rely on myself. So over time, I went and found somebody else that now I'm, I'm building this situation with this potential business. And now they come back to like, well, what happened? I thought we were going to do this. And the person I'm doing with is much more successful than that other person and are like, kind of, they're kind of like shocked that's happening. So I guess that's a long and it's a very convoluted story to explain something that's pretty simple, which is that it happens all the time. And it's up to you. It's up to me to kind of get I'm going to work harder. I'm going to like get to that thing without without that. And they'll see it themselves. I don't have to like blatantly put it in their face because you've got to be so good that they'll notice and recognize you, even when you don't have to like blast it in their face. And that's happened time and time again. Yeah. So we talked off air about this book because you this is what book number four, five, four, but in a different different. Right. The other books were all fitness, all fitness space. Would you say this is like an extension of the TED Talk? It is an extension of the TED Talk, for sure. Like, and that's another example. I do that TED Talk, even you laughed at me about that, the secret to getting anything you want. You laughed, you laughed, you laughed, you laughed. Yeah. She's like, what's this whole bold thing? He was like, remember? I should have used the word tenacious or something. Yeah, it would have been received better. No, you actually use the right word because it's about being bold. Long memory, I don't have long memory. But no, no, no. What why I'm bringing that up is that I didn't think in a million years, even then that TED Talk was going to become as popular as it did. And it went viral. And there's like millions. I think it's at five million now on just YouTube. And like tons of engagement on this whole idea of being bold and tons. I think I've had like thousands, thousands of people who've contacted me about that, like DMs, companies, colleges, students that like whatever I was saying resonated to a point where it actually like turned into this book because the message I think is that is exactly that, that like be bold. It's being bold is more important than being smart, you know, putting yourself out there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you find that this resonates more with women than with men? Actually, it's 5050 because the idea behind it is it's the idea behind the whole idea of being bold is that don't allow yourself doubt or don't allow the fear of failure to stop you from trying. And that could be that's universal and that doesn't that has no gender to it, right? Like a lot of and this is by the way, it's not just professionally. It's not just like the job. It's about it's not just a job. It's about personal life. Like a lot of guys or not just girls end up dating and getting married to somebody that like that, you know, that like are okay. They're not crazy about just because it was they're acquiescing to what's available or like that person's good enough and because they're not putting themselves out there or they're not actually like chasing what they really truly want authentically. And the idea behind my entire platform and message is like how to have a rich life and it's not rich with finance. It's not like, oh, how do I get a plane and how do I make more money? It's about how do you actually like live in a way that like is actually fulfilling and satiating in a real way. That's with like experiences and relationships and job. Like look at you guys are like literally an exact like a perfect example of somebody or people that are doing that like day in, day out. You guys are best friends. So you get to see your best friend every day doing exactly what you love, talking about exactly what you love and a place that you love. Like how many people are able to like say that they are they created that life for themselves in a purpose in a way that's been like on purpose. You guys were on purpose doing that, you know, like you and you don't compromise. You don't come like everything is done in like the way you want to do it. Yeah, we feel very blessed for it. But you know, the challenge with being bold or as you said, taking those chances, right? Taking those risks is the the fear of subjected to ridicule. Yeah, failure or ridicule because if I put my real self out there, like if I really put my real self out there and it gets rejected, I have nothing to I can't go back and protect myself like that wasn't really me or I didn't really try my heart. Like I lost the race, but I wasn't running as hard as I could. Like I went as hard as I could and I still lost and that a lot of people can't deal with. And so I and I know I know what you're saying as bold as you are or as many chances of use as you've taken for sure you've had to have failed a bunch of times no way you could succeed at everything. Well, I feel more than I succeed. How do you deal with that? So there's a couple of things you said. First of all, there's a big difference in my opinion between being bold and taking up and and risk risk and bold is different to me. I feel like bold is I think you got to you got to take risks that are not that are that are like intelligent risk, right? Like if you have a family of four, right, you're not going to quit your job to more today and just like hope for the best, right? You got to put yourself in a situation. You got to put your in yourself in a situation to win or like things don't just happen just through osmosis, right? You got to put yourself in opportunities happen when you put yourself in a place where you can win and you're constantly putting it's not as simple as that. So you're not advocating for people to make just, oh, bold. Okay, cool. It's not just like my my my idea is that be smart about putting yourself in not just opportunities, but aligning yourself in places where you have the potential to increase your chances, right? I don't think that I think it's about being around the right people. It's about taking small steps. You don't have to go from zero to 60. But I think being bold is being honest with yourself, taking like a mental check of like or like a self self awareness check and saying, okay, where am I? Where do I want to be in my life? And where am I right now? And what are the steps I need to get there? That's what I'm talking about. It's like if you want to be a basketball player, right? An NBA basketball player, and you are five one. Yeah, you know what? Maybe that's not the bet. I mean, maybe you shouldn't quit your job tomorrow and just, you know, say, you know, I'm going to become an NBA, but I think about like, well, you know, I like basketball. What am I good at? Would I be good at maybe what kind of work for a team? What, you know, or should I can I can I be a can I be a strength and conditioning coach? Could I do this? Like be be somewhat like open minded and creative and have pick a cell pick not you don't even have an exact destination, but like have a direction. That's my point and being realistic with what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. Stay in that. Stay in that lane. How many times have you done something where you went into it with this intent, it was going to look a certain way and then it ended up being completely different than what you imagine it to be. So right. So that's my that was what I was going to actually say is that my whole premise is that you have to at least try, right? Like you have to make attempts and at least going after in the direction that you're interested and passionate about. And actually the truth is nine out of 10 a lot of times it's going to fail. You're most of most of my life, whatever I actually went for, I never actually got. But another opportunity presented itself that I never even knew existed by even going down those steps and going down that path. So my whole point is, don't just count yourself out before even trying. That's my point. Don't just say, oh, I'm not good at that or why me or why should that happen to me? I'm like, act as if you're the act as if. Why not? Like I've I just I turned I turn I turn it around and saying, you know, if it can happen to Joe Blow and it can happen to that person or this person, why can't it happen to me? But you got to you got to put yourself in a place to win. So that's that's the point. No, I love I love that analogy and even using the basketball one, for example, and let's use the five one type of character of going to like, listen, deep down, I want to be a basketball player so bad, but I'm open to whatever it takes. I'll be the ball boy, I'll clean the floors, I'll do anything to be around that environment. A channel that talks about NBA right and deep down, I hope they see me and they see my talent. I get an opportunity. But what's maybe what might happen is I end up being a strength and conditioning coach or maybe I end up being this. But by the way, the guy who is the the VP for the Warriors started as the like assistant ball boy guy who's now walking around with the ring and sitting courts. I met him last time as the game. So, you know, there's an example of somebody who probably had no idea it was going to end up being that for him, right? Probably didn't like I this is put yourself in the vicinity of what you're interested in. That's basically the bottom line. Like put yourself in the vicinity. Like you're not going to go on that NBA court and start like, you know, getting three pointers, but at least like work within that area. And like you will kind of like you will find your way. So that's what I've done my whole life. Like that's my point. And I feel like what you're saying is that, yeah, if you fail and the and then people feel, oh, well, then it kind of brings you back down and like get you worse down that that black hole or rabbit hole. So you got to practice the idea of failure. Like to me, make it make yourself immune to failure. So it doesn't it that you become just, I guess I would say, desensitize yourself to fail. How do you do that? Now, is this like a mental game or just because you try? I think I think it's a meant I think it's a lot of things. I think you become desensitized to failure when you fail a lot. So I'm going to tell you something that's really interesting. Okay. So last year, I did a talk at MIT, right? And the talk was about resilience. And what I found super interesting, I'm like, this is I had to talk to people who are literally the best in the world, the smartest people in the world go to MIT, right? And here I am in talking to the smartest people in the world about failing. I'm like the irony was not lost on me for a moment, right? Like, you know, in fact, I got there and the lineup was me plus five other people, right? And I brought my husband along to this thing. And I'm looking at the bios of the people. The person speaking right before me was a Harvard scientist at MIT graduate, also Harvard, MIT, was best invention, best inventor of the year, not once, but twice by time magazine. And time magazine, most influential in the hundred most influential people in the world has had two companies. One was sold under six months for $180 million. And I go on and on. Okay. What's going through your stomach when you're reading? I'm like, this is a joke. And you're going to follow that one? I was like, yeah. So I'm following him. He was the first to speak and I was number two. Okay. I read his bio. And I'm like, is this a fucking joke? I'm like, is this a joke? Like, how did this? Like, how did they pick me? Like, why am I here? Like, oh, and so the guy was standing beside me. And he's like, what do you do? This is what the guy says to me. His name is David. And the story gets better. And I'm like, what do I do? I'm like, a whole lot of nothing compared to you. That's for sure. Oh, I forgot to tell you, this is the best part. He's like, he which by the way, okay, that's you just you just went over that really fast. But that's such an endearing and brilliant thing to say to a person like that. Only because you caught it, you know, because you know, of course, because the natural reaction to almost any human would to be feeling secure in that moment. I do this. And then to overcompensate what you do. Oh, I've written four books. And I have this podcast. 100% I talked to all these people. But the fact that you you still have the humility in that situation and know to do that is brilliant. Thank you. First of all, the fact that you stopped me at that moment, I am not surprised because I I feel that a part of a lot of part of like emotional intelligence is knowing your audience and an understanding understanding the the place you're in, right? Like kind of like know the room, right? And if I were to try to like out, do that guy, I look like an ass, right? So at that moment, like the only place for me to go is to be self deprecating, right? So knowing the room that you're in and knowing kind of like picking up on cues is so vital to success. And like ability, I think, right? Agreed, right? So if someone's gonna when people do that with me in general, right, when they try to like, like out do like, oh, I'm this, I'm that, it's like such a turn off. I have no interest in like, I don't care how successful you are or how unsuccessful you are. To me, that's a turn off. I think humility is very underrated. Anyway, so I say to this guy, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah, like, it's obvious. And I didn't tell you this part. He also was the guy who created the cure or the what do you call it? The antidote? Yeah, to SARS and like he works and like to all these other like ailments, he was like the he's like the number one guy in like lung capacity. It's like it's like insane. Okay. So and then and so he's asked me what I do and I'm like, well, you know, whatever I do a squad, I do a lunch. I know how to do a playing once in a while, you know what I mean? Like laughing and he's, you know, he kind of has a sense of humor, but he's, you know, he's kind of a little bit more standoffish. And then and then he talks and then I talk and the idea why two points I'm going to try to make the first point about MIT, what I wanted to roll back and I'll get back to David is that why they had this talk about resilience and failure at MIT is because those people never fail. Right. And so when they shocking to them, so when they fail, their fall is way harder. That makes sense. Right. And so that's that's that's my perspective. You they're like, let's this is all going to circle back and make a lot of sense. I promise you. OK, I know I'm going in a lot of different directions, but let's stay in this whole MIT because there's a lot of good points that I want to make. The first one is that they have the highest suicide rate. MIT. Yes. Because right, because people because they don't want to fail. And so when they fail, it's like gut wrenching and they don't know how to they don't know how to like process it deal with it and process it. Right. You know what I did, Jen, with that is that with my kid who does really well in certain subjects, he had the opportunity to do in a class that would challenge him versus one that was right here. I definitely encourage him to the one I said, I'd rather you get a C in this challenging class than an A in this other easy class. I agree. And I know it's OK. My dad get it easier to get in college with the A, but with the C, he's going to get his ass kicked a little bit and that's valuable. It's super valuable. And this is we'll talk about that actually. I talk about that in my book, this whole cultural culture nonsense that goes on in this world is unbelievable. Everyone wins a participation trophy. No parent wants their kid to fail when failure is part is a part of life. And if they don't learn how to fail early, it's going to be detrimental to their life later on. And this is a by the way, that's a whole podcast in itself. But so that's why at MIT that so my whole thing was that because I've failed so many times, like I have literally a master's in failing, but a PhD and getting myself right back up. And that's what I said to them at the beginning. I'm like, that's why I'm here to talk to you is because it's I've become so desensitized that now I don't give a shit. I can try anything. And if I if I lose, if I fail, if I get rejected, I don't care. I'm going to try again. I'm coming right back. I'm coming right back because I've become so immune to failing. It's like nothing to me. It's like drinking water, having lunch, you know, like it doesn't matter. It's the people that are always winning that have the problem who are the ones who overthink things, who are the ones who can't get up when they fail. And that's why in life, a lot of these people who've become extraordinarily successful in their life, they had a lot of challenges when they were younger. They weren't the people who are the smartest. They weren't the people that were the prettiest and the most this or the most that they didn't win every single award. They had to learn how to be resourceful and learn how to like brush themselves back, you know, brush themselves off and get right back up when they won or when they didn't win because they had to. And the only way to do this that I can think of and I love your input on this is to do it, right? You can't get, you know, develop this immunity, right, to failure unless you failed a bunch of times. That's the only way to do it. So basically it's wherever you're at, because someone may be listening who's super talented, like, well, I'm just good at everything. Well, you haven't tried hard enough. You haven't tried hard enough. You haven't gone out and put yourself in positions where you could potentially fail. Why worry about those people? Because the people who don't fail at all and who are supposedly good at everything, they're usually coasting a lot of times in life. And their life becomes very much like this. There's they they never they're not the ones who are going to like really kind of like just go they're never going to like go exceed and go right for the right for the right for the moon because they don't feel that they need to. They haven't learned that that that need to be gritty, that need to be like, you know, thinking out of the box and how to be resourceful or how to be how to kind of, you know, figure shit out when things go wrong. And in life, it's things go wrong. Nothing for it. And I don't care who you are. There's not one person in life in my opinion. It's not even my opinion. It's a fact. Who in life has never had hardship somewhere. And if you don't learn that hardship at some point, when you do fall and when you do have, you know, something God forbid happening, you don't know how you don't have the you don't have the where with all and the ability to deal with it. Like you need to have tools and you learn those tools by being kind of mediocre, like when you're young or or just average enough. Like to me, you know, I think my one of my biggest superpowers was I was just kind of average in a lot of ways. So in order for me to kind of stick, you know, kind of like shine in anything, I had to really work hard for it. You know, like nothing came easy to me. So I had to learn how to like to your point, like everything I'm okay at is because I had to put in like a lot of a lot of practice, a lot of man hours and like create whatever this is. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't born fit. I had to like put tons of hours into it. And then I became fit. And then I had to maintain the fitness. And it's like, it's like, once you get there, then you have to kind of maintain it. But this idea that things just should come naturally. And if like, I'm entitled to have this success or I'm entitled to be, you know, fit, I'm entitled, you know, I, I should be this. No, doesn't work that way. So, Jen, what do you, what are your thoughts then on because this I feel like this is a an interesting topic that we hear a lot about like it feel the oppression Olympics and everybody talks about privilege. Yeah, it's a very relevant culturally right now. This is this particular discussion. And we talked a little bit about with Max. I recently talked about on the show, I got some, you know, pushback from the audience and stuff like that because I made comments about, you know, I find it really interesting that we just assume that having all the money, having all the opportunity, going to all the best schools, winning all the time is such a place of privilege. And in fact, maybe it's more a place of privilege to come from not having a lot because what you had to overcome. So what are your thoughts around this, the culture and how we feel about privilege? And we talk about this? Well, that's because he's so privileged. Like, what are your thoughts on that? So I think there's like, there's a lot to unpack with that, right? Because I've seen it all the time that and that's I guess I do have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder again. I got a lot of chips on my shoulder apparently, but because I do feel that it's a lot of things in life are quote, unquote, unfair, right? But life's not fair, where someone can have a deck that stacked way better than another person, right? But the first question becomes, well, what's success to you? Right? Is it that because you were positioned in a family that had some money, a lot, a lot of money, so you're able to go to these great schools and therefore have the alumni to then help each other to make a lot of money? That's fine. But is that is that what your goal in life is? Is it just money? If like, if you have a lot of money, does that make you have a rich life? No, that just makes you fucking rich. Does it make you rich in the soul or spiritually or mentally satiated? It makes you rich. So to me, that's not interesting, right? To me, that's not enough. Now, I do believe that I doesn't matter what my hand is. So it doesn't matter what your hand is. I have to play the hand I'm given anyway. And so I have to think, and this is where the self-awareness thing comes up, what is important to me to have a successful life? What is important to me if I have to feel that I have a rich life? And then I got to play the hand I'm given and make it the best possible. I do believe though, that with that being said, that a lot of what bothers me when people are given so much privilege and then they and then they don't like utilize it well. I really can't stand that. Yeah, they squander it. Lazy talented people really, really hard. It's really hard for me to see lazy or people who don't appreciate like that the lazy, talented person or the person who is given everything and their they think that they just they earned it like that that place like I've that's why I see a lot in LA, right? A lot of these people who who they feel in the entitlement of like when they don't even earn it, they were just given it and then they're not doing anything more with it, I guess is a problem. But I think this comes down to this whole caudal culture mentality where people are just like a way to protect it in this world and given everything. I think there's something to be said for I don't care if if I'm making a lot of money. I'm doing I'm doing a disservice to my kid if I just hand everything to them. Well, you can you can try all you want to make life perfectly safe for your kids or you can make them tough so that they can the question is how the question is what does that mean? Right? So like I feel that it like to what we're talking about before is that you have to teach your children that they're not going to always win and that they are going to fail and that they have to be resilient and like they're going to have to they should work work ethic whatever happened to work ethic in everything in life, right? It doesn't matter. Like I feel like these kids who have who are given everything the great schools and the money and you lose that that like that like fight to do it yourself. And what I was going to say but that so now you have a lot of money, right? You get to go to the schools, you have the alumni, you have all these things, all these to position yourself for for what what's considered in society to be successful. But does that necessarily build character? And when you don't do it yourself, you don't think that plays on someone's self esteem long term. I know a lot of people who are given a lot of shit and or super considered successful because they were positioned to be successful. But deep down, you know, you know, if you did it by yourself, you know what you were given, you know, if you know how resilient you really are. And I think that in order to be really confident and to have a true sense of self and self esteem, you have to be able to have self efficacy to know that you could do it on your own. When did you figure when did you figure this out about failing? Because I'm sure when you were younger when I failed. Well, yeah, well, I mean, the first few times, I mean, it saw, I mean, I'm sure it sucked. Can you can you think back to like the first time when you really like you failed at something like, oh, well, I'm never a great student. Number one, I was a terrible student and I would math was like it was such an embarrassment. So I failed at math. But I think one of the things that happened to me actually was you're going to, you know, dancing at the time. I don't know, I'm not a bad dancer, but at the time. Let's see. Yeah, we'll do it later. We'll dance together later. I think I've gotten better. See, because I it was such a traumatic experience that I practice and practice and now I'm like the best dancer. No, not. But I took that energy into into fitness. And so that's that's when that opportunity came. So when I was younger, I think I was like 12 or 13. We all there was like a dance troupe called the high dance ensemble. And the high dance ensemble was like Israeli dancing because I'm Israeli. And it was like that what everyone wanted to do. So like all my friends, we all would try. We all tried out. Literally, all my friends got in but me, I was the only one who didn't get in. It was like humiliating, right? And I couldn't believe it. So like they would go practicing every day and and they would, you know, they would like talk about it. And like it built a lot of like, you know, camaraderie, right? Because they were like experiences thing together. And I was like, not involved. So that's basically I was like, oh, my God, this is so terrible. I can't believe it. And I'm like such a loser. And then one day I decided, you know what, OK, I've got there after school, they're doing all this high dancing, you know, doing whatever they're doing in Israeli dance. And there was a new gym that that opened up near my house called shapes. It was a women's it was like a women's all women's gym. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to go in there and see what's happening. And I took like an aerobics class, like a stepper aerobics class. And I'm like, OK, I'm like, maybe I should just do this. And so I went again. And then I went again. And then I'm like, here, there's a stair master. And then slowly but surely I started to like really like get into like this whole fitness thing. And I started to like notice myself like my body was changing. I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting really a I'm getting strong. And I feel strong physically, which then I feel mentally more strong. And then I'm like, I really like this step aerobics thing. Maybe I can teach aerobics. So then I went to get my little, you know, certification for like for like group fitness, right? And then now I'm like teaching aerobics at the place. So my failure turned into a lifelong win, right? The one thing like the one thing I was rejected at, I'm like, it gave me that opportunity to find a true passion, which then led to like my entire life of like health and fitness stuff, right? So I became an aerobics instructor. I became super fit. And then everyone was looking at me differently. They're like, wow, like where are those abs come from? And like, why is your ass so tight like that? And I'm like, and so like I felt like it totally transformed my entire being, right? Like all my friends were like doing like powder berets in their dance class. And I'm like getting really, really fit. And it like took my life in a whole different trajectory. So my I guess my the point is that sometimes your your biggest failure ends up being your biggest success. And that's the and that's the truth. I think one of the challenges that people have with that is they they tend to like seek what they're passionate about. Like let's say you like you were really passionate about dancing like that. And then when the dancing fails and shut down versus being open minded to like well, what you were like, OK, well, they're busy, they're busy now. I have nothing to do with that time. Let me put that time somewhere else. And then it led to this lifelong success for you. So what's next? Like you try I think it's about putting yourself places where you try a lot of things. You don't know what you don't know. Right. That's the bottom. You don't you don't know what you don't know. Like you have to try a lot of shit to know what you like and what you don't like. It's like in fitness. How many times do you guys get asked the same question? Like, you know, what's the best thing to do, you know, for fat loss for muscle gain for this or like what's the best form of exercise to lose weight? I get that question a ton still and it's like the thing that you're going to do the most. If you hate something, you're never going to do it, right? So find something that you like and it's a big it becomes a beginning of trial and error in life, right? Just trying and seeing and doing. But just because something didn't work out for you, like the whole thing is like if a door closes, find a window. And if that window is shut, look for another window or then dig a hole if that doesn't work. Like you have to be resourceful. Like I cannot stress enough the importance of being resourceful and learning how, you know, when things don't when when things zig and you have to sometimes zag, it just is life. I think I think that's because we look at failures is such a negative thing. Like I learned to to reframe failure is actually a positive thing. It means I quickly got to my answer, like, oh, I'm not good at that. On to the next thing. Or, oh, that doesn't work on to the next thing versus, oh, my God, identifying as the failure. Like I think we attach ourselves to this thing that we that we're pursuing. And then when it fails, we now go, oh, I'm a failure. Like, no, I just failed at that thing. It wasn't for me on to the next thing. And so you I have to you have to reframe how you look at failing. And I actually learned to look at it as almost a positive thing. And I began. I remember for me in my early 20s, I read this article because I was very money motivated when I was young. And I wanted to be a millionaire, right? Because it was a big deal back then, right? To be to be a millionaire. And I remember reading now you want to be a billionaire. No, I actually don't give a shit about that so much. But I remember reading that the average millionaire had nine failures before they get to 10. And at this time, I'm only like 22. And I'm like, oh, shit, I've only failed it like one or two things. Like, so then my attitude was, I got to hurry up and fail seven more times if I'm even going to be in that statistic, right? So I think that that really helped shape and reframe how I looked at failure as a kid. Who's more likely to be successful? The person who identifies with success or the person who identifies with tenacity, right? The person who identifies with resilience. Like, if you identify as a resilient person rather than a successful person, you're going to go much further. I totally agree. I also want to say, sitting in a room full of people who like take fitness seriously, the how that has shaped our lives, right? Because I think fitness for me has gave me the the the fundamentals to really feel like I can go out and conquer my life, right? Because it teaches you goal setting. It shows you when you actually have a goal and you actually get to that place, it you then feel the confidence to keep on going. It teaches you like discipline and and all the greater for self growth. Yeah, 100 percent. It's no it's it's not really a coincidence, right? That a lot of people who have become extraordinarily successful are also the same people who have taken some form of fitness seriously, you know, like these are like these are like building blocks for real true success. You're speaking my language and part of the reason me teaches you self-acceptance. You talked about, you know, working with the cards that sacrifice, like yeah, sacrifice. What? Yeah, you stick to a long enough and you're like, well, I'm not going to look like the person in the magazine, but I'm going to keep going anyway. Or I suck at this, but let me keep practicing this exercise and then I'll get better at it. Oh, this hurts. Oh, wait a minute. That's part of like what makes my body improve. Oh, I have to do this every single day. I can't just do some of it and then stop it. But here's what makes it really powerful. It's nobody realizes they're about to enter into this journey of personal growth. Totally. I want nice abs. 100%. I was going to say what I think and how I look about how I look at fitness in my head is that it is literally a microcosm of life, of like of life outside of that. And what you can what you learn and truly, like in a real way, in a in a true way, is life transform. Like that is, to me, life transformative right there and people who don't know don't know. Like that's why you have to go on that journey. And like I always say that like if it wasn't for fitness, that I would never have been able to have done and go after and strive the way I have because I would never have had those building blocks because I don't care what you say. When you look in that mirror and you feel physically strong and you know you're strong and you did that because you did it, no one can give it to you. It's not that's the one thing in life that you have to do on your own, right? Your mom, your rich mom, your rich dad, they can't be, they can't go zazoom. You're now super fit, you know, like with all the people with all the money in the world, they can have every nutritionist, personal trainer, whatever. But if you don't do the work on your own, not going to happen. And if you don't learn along the way and if you don't learn self-acceptance, you know, it's I used to get clients that would ask me like, Oh, what happens after I get in shape? Well, we got to keep going. You got to keep going that way. But or but even then you have to also accept that you age. You have to accept that. I'm not going to be right by everybody, right? Everybody does. You have to slowly. It's it's it's a total process of self-acceptance, growth, work, tenacity. If you stick to it long enough. And again, I love it because nobody knows that when they go into it, you figure that out like five to ten years later. Nobody knows it. Like when I started and you started, it's like, you're like, Hey, I just, you know, exactly. Or I've got, you know, let me just I've got nothing else to do right now. Let me try it. But it's like the neuroplasticity, your brain, like there's something that happens in the process where truthfully, your neuro the neuroplasticity in your brain literally changes. Like the way you think changes, it is unbelievable. But that's why I tell people, I can only tell you so much. You now have to go and like the sensei, like you have to now go and do the work. And then if you stick to it long enough, like anything in life, you will see and reap the your reap the results and not just physically, like to me and I and I was just going to say this, it's not like it's not just physical, right? Like it's like you said, it may start with that might be your that might be your your starting point. But what you get out of it mentally and and life like life is way beyond that. Yeah. Well, if I had you list your top five reasons for exercise, I bet you looking fit wouldn't be the top wouldn't be in the top. No, by the way, when I was 17, maybe. But no, for me now, it is if I don't do that, like to me, it's cognitively like what it does for my brain, it like put my brain on super charged. So like I may have my brain may have been like kind of maybe like sluggish maybe at some point when I was younger, I don't know. But now it's like on super charge, right? And I'm going to tell you something funny actually after that. But my mood, my energy, like you said, when I walked in here, I'm a hundred and five, right? And I'm still like going at a pace that I feel is like, you know, 16. But like the mood, you're my cognitive abilities to kind of like put things together, right? If I when I don't work out, I feel like my brain becomes literally sluggish even if I don't sleep. Like if I'm not sleeping that well and not working out, it's a it's a nightmare. I'm a different person. I'm a different person. But I still have, even if I'm not sleeping that great, I still have to put the work in on the fitness side to have my brain be optimized. Totally. In my in my opinion, I don't use that as an excuse. I don't say, oh, I'm too. I never say that because energy begets energy. People don't understand that either. The more the when I work out, I get way more energy, not less energy, right? So that's my first thing. I think my brain, the cognitive powers that you get from the fitness is unstoppable. I wanted to bring it back and kind of tie in our conversation in the beginning about authenticity. And I had a thought in terms of like why that irritates us so much when we meet people that aren't quite as authentic. And just because of like all these points bringing up of like the work involved, like it's it takes a lot of courage to present your authentic self. It takes a lot of work to even find your authentic self and to be able to present that to other people and in terms of like, you know, taking those steps and becoming, you know, bolder, like we we know what we went through to get to this point, right? And so is it is that something that resonates in terms of like, you know, why that that is such nails on a chalk bar we meet some fake person that, you know, maybe they used, you know, PEDs or whatever and they're not being like honest about it. Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you is that it really rubs me the wrong way. And when people I mean, I don't care what someone is doing physically, what bothers me when someone portrays something that's so contrary to what they portray, right? And people who are disingenuous me is like my biggest pet peeve. Well, one of my biggest pet peeves. And it's because you're right. I think that I'm I feel comfortable in my own skin that I don't I feel like you know, I'm not for everybody, you know, like some people like chocolate, some people like vanilla, some people like strawberry. I don't try to have my goal in life isn't for every single person to like me. My goal in my life is for me to like me and be comfortable with who I am. And I feel like every pot has a lid, right? There's some pots that have lid that, you know, there's some pots you can smoke. Exactly. Some pot you can smoke. Exactly. I feel like I feel when people try to be everything to everyone, that's when they start to have like that's that to me. If you don't have this is this might be sound controversial, but if you don't have any enemies, you've never really spoken the truth. How is that even controversial? I think that's listen, like I think right now in the world that we're in right now, it is to what's happening is insane to me. Can we talk about that first? Yeah, if you want to. You want to wind this up? I don't know. First, if you were an ice cream, what would you be, by the way, since you made the ice cream? I do like chocolate. What would you be, though, if you were ice cream? I'm definitely not vanilla. You're not vanilla or chocolate. I would say maybe Jamoka. I like I like Jamoka. What is that? Or like Rocky Road. I'd say Rocky Road. What would you be? Mint chip. Oh, I almost got it. Oh, mint chip. Why mint chip? Well, because I'm either love me or hate me, you know, and I'm different. I'm not. I'm definitely not vanilla or chocolate. Definitely not vanilla. But I'm likeable and I can grow on you. It's like, if you're not, you never really like. So if you it's you still ice cream. I still like that. That's great. So that's and so that you're right because mint chip, not everyone loves it, but some people like obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with mint chip. So that is so. So do you think most people like Rocky Road or not really? That Rocky Road is right there with mint chip, I think. I think so, I think so, too, because either people can like really get into it or. Or they're like, I don't like the chunky bits or what. Yeah, yeah. Like it's not like bland enough. But if you love it, you love it. Yeah, and it can grow on you. Yeah, yeah. I'm like a store babe because I can have a very. You're a store babe. Yeah. Yeah, I'm bubblegum because it's fun and sophisticated. People won't eat it. I feel like you'd be like coffee. I feel like you're like coffee, coffee. I love coffee. I love coffee ice cream. I love coffee ice cream. Oh my God, that's right. I would say coffee ice cream. I'm going to change it because I love coffee ice cream. And I feel like most people love it, but there are a few who don't. Have you tried it? They can get they can get there. What's that one? What's it called? What's that thing that you guys always get? A Fogato? Is that the one? What's that coffee ice cream? A Fogato. A Fogato again. Have you had that? Coffee ice cream. It's a coffee ice cream with espresso poured on it. Oh, that sounds delicious. Yeah. So it's like sugar, caffeine. You're just all the same already. Yeah. By the way, can you believe that we've never worked out together? Yeah, we never worked out together. We never worked out to each other. Oh, really? I think guys always think that. They're like, oh, you guys get to work out your best for those. I'm gonna say we never worked out together. I thought you guys always do. I can count on one hand in eight years we've all worked out together. I think we've only all genuinely worked out together maybe three times. As I said in the beginning. Shut up. Yeah. You know why? You probably wondering why. I'm way too strong for self. Yeah, why? I'm way too strong for self. Yeah, you probably are really good. That's exactly. By the way, you're not honest. You know, I beat him to that. I knew that's what he was going to say. No, that's what I'm going to say. Why are you going to say it? I'm too strong for these guys. No, there's two. Because we all have very personal relationships with fitness, so number one. So we all want to do our own workout. Yeah, I totally get that. None of us like to follow any else's workout. Totally. So what'll happen is we'll start working out together. He's going to want to do one thing. I don't have any mirrors at my hand. I'll do another thing, whatever. You know, it's really funny. I get anxious sometimes when people always say, hey, why don't we work out together? And I'm always like, OK. You can follow my workout. Exactly. When we go and we meet other fitness people that stay always want to do that, we always avoid it. Yeah, always. I think we've worked out with Ben Pacolski, the only person we've ever worked out with. No one else we've ever worked out with. They get so mad because they want the hero video. It's so true, though, right? You guys want to meet up and work out tomorrow? We're like, yeah, not really. Exactly, yeah. I think I'm going to sleep in tomorrow. 100%. Or do your own work. I mean, I just feel like I know what I like and what works for me. I don't want someone else. Although I'm supposed to be going to Nashville to work out with Gunnar Peterson. Oh. He has, do you know who he is, the trainer? Have you ever had him on this podcast? No. He's like a celebrity trainer, right? No, I haven't interviewed him. I was going to do a podcast while I'm there. But he built up this like 5,000 square foot gym in Nashville. He used to have this crazy gym near my house. But now he moved. But he has so many toys there, like so much shit. It's like crazy. I'll never work out with a fitness influencer because I 100%, it's going to be like, let me show you, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not like that. But yeah. But yeah. And that's the other reason why we don't work out is because we all are competitive. And I know what happened. Well, look at you. As soon as we see what you just did, you just started living at the store. I know. OK, but you're wearing a t-shirt, a tight t-shirt. Yeah, he also does push-ups in the bathroom, too. I accidentally put a shirt on. Did he? Yeah, before you got here. I did what? Although I see you, you're a crazy fit, like sick fit. And you have a great squat. You can squat better than anybody ever seen. Thank you. Thank you. He has. He did squats. And by the way, he makes. This much is so good at making relationships. In the ego. In the ego. You've got a beautiful camera. By the way, will you guys promote my book for the next three weeks, too? And by the way, will you? Of course we will. Thank you. But I will tell you, he makes the funniest jokes about you guys. Oh my god. His stuff on Instagram is hysterical. I like almost, if it wasn't for the fact that I tried to like, I try to like control myself or else I'd be pressing LOL on everything you post. Just wait, I'm going to get back to you. Oh, it's so funny. Your sense of humor is like perfect for me. I love it. I'm going to get back on, though. I'll get back on. What's happened to you? I got kicked off. For what? Oh god, long story. It's because there was a whole period where people were getting kicked off for making certain statements. Oh yeah, okay, that was when you got kicked off. And I just, yeah, and they actually went through old like, like stories I posted years before that had disappeared years ago and they were like, give me warnings about them. Like, this is weird. And then he got kicked off, so. Just, do you care? Stupid. Actually, no. Didn't affect the business. I don't, I don't care. I don't care. I went on Twitter and then boom, lo and behold, Elon bought Twitter. I'm not saying that I made that happen. Right, but there is some type of coincidence maybe. Yeah, there's some weirdness there. But I might go back on. We'll see what happens. But do you feel like a lot of your time has been like now, you have a lot more time in your day because it's such an addictive, social media is so addictive, right? I mean, I didn't do a whole lot on there except for posts like memes that I would find funny and then occasional thoughts. But I always, Yeah, you guys had similar stuff. Yeah, I write my thoughts down anyway and I'll usually bring them up on the show. So it's not really, it didn't really take too, it didn't like save tons of time. All for us was always to disappear anyways. So we set out years ago. We wanted to turn it all off. So that we wanted to get to a point where the only way to even hear us is through this. And then you won't be able to actually communicate with us. Really? Yeah. That's the goal. You guys are so clever. I love that. Really? Is it a good business group? I feel like it's, really? You know what's clever about you guys? Like I said, at the beginning of this podcast, what made you guys, in my opinion, part of your success is that you've stuck to the rules that you guys had made with each other. And it's like one for all or all for one type of situation. And it's clear and concise and you have a goal and you know what you want and you just kind of, you stay on path all the time. And it's working. Yeah, no, it's too, maybe I don't know if it's to a fault, but that's 100% true. Like these guys, their integrity is so strong that they would burn it all down without compromising their integrity. And the cool thing about it is, and we've talked about this off air, just because of the climate, right? The way the climate is with social media, people getting canceled. They said the wrong thing. Did we say the wrong thing on the podcast? Could we get blowback or whatever? We've all talked about this. And if one of us says something that's whatever and it gets one of us canceled, we're all gonna give everybody the finger and say you could take us all down then. I love that. And maybe that's a bad thing or good thing, I don't know, but I think you gotta stand by that. But that's part of your success. Even when you said, you always say actually, not just once. And I picked it up, I picked it up. When you wrote that book, you say our book. It's not like Sal's book. It's like, when we wrote this book or our book. You know that he split those proceeds with us? 100%. We did nothing. Yeah, yeah, we didn't do anything with that. And by the way, we would have, no one would have balked if he took all of it. So it was never once did anybody go like, oh, we got this book deal because of us. Like, bro, I didn't do nothing with that book. Yeah, but you know what? That's amazing. Yeah, but you know, there's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes with these guys. Well, it's the reason why each guy does an individual stuff that contributes to the pot that nobody has to be. But that is why you guys are consistently strong and getting stronger and stronger and growing. You know what the big weakness is for people, is their ego. And if you look at, there's a lot of, there's so many stories of successful bands or partnerships. Totally. Where one of them gets a big head and thinks that they're gonna go do their thing and doesn't realize the importance of the rest, you know. It's like, you know. Of a team, of a team. Yeah, you could be a cake and the icing gets all the, you know, oh, look, this icing is so amazing. But without the eggs, the flour, the milk or whatever, you got nothing. So we all know that. And it is definitely, you know, one for all with that. And maybe, again, maybe to our fault. Not at all. I found, you know, it's great to work with people that feel the same. Look, I'm gonna use you two as an example. Look at you two. They've never broken up. They've, Bono has never gone on his own to do his own album, right? They've always been a group and a cohesive group and they're the most successful band in the world. It hasn't taken anything away from Bono being Bono or the edge being the edge, right? But they noticed very early, it's gonna be a one for all or all for one and that is what it is. Look at all the bands who were super successful and then the lead singer got too big of a head. He went on his own and they never, when they came back, it was never the same. And they were never the same. If they just kind of played it out and stuck it out together, like Harry Styles right now, right? He had that one direction. I'm not gonna, that's a bad example because one direction is hardly you too, right? But, you know, what I'm gonna say is that band's now gone without him and he's gonna probably like, he's not, he's no Bono, right? So I feel the people who like, when you see you have a good thing and you know how you compliment each other, you have to like lean in hard and keep that and that to me is how you really build like true success. Like a bond like a deal. It is, ego and greed are both very powerful things. And I think that's both, I think that's both, right? It's normally one or the other, either you seek to be the main person and you care about, and that was when we knew it was gonna work early is because nobody wanted that. We had a fourth person that was a partner that was part of the show and so five, including Doug. And I remember we recorded like 15 episodes before it ever went live. These never aired and he was gonna, he would have been an equal partner, just like all of us and... I mean, we had done at this point, work weeks and weeks and weeks of work, episode, edited, rated rock, we're about to launch. What happened? He texts us that his sponsor was a little weary because the show was very edgy and so he says, I gotta back out. And he was the one with the social media presence. No. So he had all the social media presence. That our magazine covers and so that. You know, Adam had like 15,000 followers. The rest of us had none. This guy had a hundred and something thousand. That would have been our first step. Yeah, you're rock. You're rock. He bounced and I mean, I tell the story. I've told the story a million times. We got the text message and I prepared my, this is before I really knew these guys, right? We had, we worked together, but we were getting to know each other. And I was like, I remember thinking in my head like, I'm gonna get on the phone and I'm gonna convince everybody. This was what I thought, right? I'm gonna get on, I'm gonna convince everybody that we're gonna keep going. And before I could open my mouth, we got on the phone, literally before I could open my mouth, I think it was Adam that's like, fuck that, we're gonna go. Justin's like, yeah, let's do it again. I didn't have to say a word. I'm like, this is great. Are you serious? And after we finished the first recording, I remember he would be like, you know, you know, Sal, you talked a lot in that one. So next time let's let Justin open the show and then I'll do that and then we'll rotate. Like he wanted like, he cared so much about who was getting the most attention. And the three of us were like, okay. Like we kind of let him lead that but none of us cared about that. None of us are like, I don't give a shit if I sit here for an hour and don't say a goddamn word. If it's a conversation I don't care about, I might not say anything. If it works, it works. Yeah. To me, there's something about hubris. What's that? Is it called hubris? Hubris? Yeah, hubris. Like to me, I think there's something to be said for that, right? Like, if you cared so much, it's the people like, that are like so coveted like that. Like we were talking about the social media people who hold everything so tightly. They wanna have all the attention. They're so competitive. It's like, you know, I feel like they will burn, right? But the people who kind of are like, who's intentions are really good. And like it is what it, you know, like kind of like let things kind of be the way they're gonna play itself out and have like, not just intention, but have like the right intentions behind it are the ones that kind of stand the test for time. Like look at this. And they're the most successful, again, defined success that because some people will say, right, and some people go, well, this guy makes a lot of money and he's like, he's not doing any of that. Money's not everything. Like real success is a sphere that contains quite a bit and you tend to define it a bit. And I know very wealthy people that are very unsuccessful. I've trained a lot of, look, I tell you what, like all of us at one point, when we were trainers in this area, at some point we made a reputation just in the local area, right? Cause we trained for soldier or whatever. And we'd get very wealthy people that would hire us. And some of these people, very depressed, very unsuccessful, otherwise, you know, and they made a lot of money. And it was great. I mean, I learned so much through training people like that cause I could see like, oh, this is not everything. Of course. That's not everything. To me that's, and I've had the same experiences, which is why I don't think that money, I never think that money equals success. I just think money equals being rich, having money. That doesn't mean you're successful. And also like being happy. Where is the, where is the equation? Like money does never equals happiness. I see more people who have money that are miserable than people who are just like broke, but like really kind of happy. Like there is a little, like that's why I think that it's really important to be very clear and define what success is for people and what it means. Because if you just tell money, and this is what happens with, that's why I fucking hate social media people like that. These motivators, because it's like, that's all they talk about. It's like, you know, that because if you make more money, make more money, then that's gonna show, that's gonna make you successful, but it doesn't. It doesn't make you successful. It makes you have some money, but that doesn't take away anything else. That doesn't mean you have like, you're happy. It doesn't mean that you're fulfilled. It doesn't mean that like, you like yourself. Like it doesn't mean you like yourself. Define it for you. You know what's funny? Define success for you. Some of the most. I wanna hear. Oh yeah. I was gonna make a comment that some of the most fulfilled people ever met were volunteers. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't make it anyway. Money is simply a tool. Yeah. Money is a tool. It's money is a tool. I don't wanna hear a success for you. For me, you know what money does? It can help buy, it can help, it helps buy certain things that you would, other like health insurance to be healthy. Sure. It also can help you buy time. It can help you buy time. So me success is first of all, without health you have nothing, right? So to me, if I'm healthy, then that's the number one thing. Because without, you can't do anything if you don't have health, right? But to be honest with you, the most important thing to me is like inter-relationships that are meaningful. That to me is like my driver in life. If I don't have relationships or meaning behind relationships, it's very dissatisfying and I become like very unhappy and depressed. So that to me is what feeds my soul. I love having people who in my life that are like-minded or I feel I can trust and I have my back. I think that's super. I think that to me like emotion, feeling emotionally satisfied to me is being successful. The fact that having my kids wanna spend time with me, you know? Have you ever thought about stuff like that? I got to see that part of you when I came to interview you at your house because you're a very successful woman. So you're understated, but Jen's very successful in what she's done. She doesn't flaunt it, but she's extremely successful, hard worker. I was at your house, your kids show up because I don't remember they were getting dropped off or something. Right, right. It was school, it was like three o'clock. Yes, you obviously have a good relationship with your kids. And then we talked about kids and you were very involved in what they do. And being a mom, being an involved mom is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yes. And I remember thinking to myself, how does she balance all of this out? How do you, I'd love to ask you, like how do you balance all of that out? Listen, I don't think, I think it's really hard and I'm not gonna lie to you. I think it's super difficult and like sometimes I'm better at it than other times. And like right now with everything happening with the book, I'm probably a little bit more like distracted than I would like to be. But I think at the end of the day, that's the first thing I think of. Like I don't want my kids not to wanna like have a bad memory of me or not wanna be around me or like, or make my kids feel like their second rate or the back burner. Like to me, my kids feeling that they're loved by me and is the most important thing. So I'm very cognizant of that. So when they walk in the room, even if I'm in the middle of doing a podcast as I do it in my house downstairs now, but I'll always be like, hi, I did it. I'm overly like happy to see them because I don't want them to feel that my work is more important than they are, right? Like to me, that's like heart wrenching if that happens in a bad way. But I don't think it's like would be honest if I said, yeah, you can have it all, balance, blah, blah. I don't believe in the word balance. I don't think life is balanced. I think there's sometimes in life that I'm working too much. And then like that part of my life is flailing and I'm doing even extra shitty at. And there's maybe sometimes when I'm like with my personal life and then my business is kind of like this. You know, like when I first had my kids, when I had my kids, or my both times actually, was it the first or the second? I can't remember now, but I had a really big opportunity business-wise and I wasn't able to take it cause I just had a kid. And like basically I went from going or kind of like my trajectory was growing and my prospects were getting higher and I was going up and up. And then I plummeted really fast and it took me a long time to kind of get a baseline back and then start to grow again because there is something to be said that like when you wanna be a present mom, it's different for guys. I don't care what you say, it's different for guys than it is for girls. You can love me, you can hate me, but that is the case. Having like being a present mom, you have this more pressure on you than there is on a guy. For now, you mean pressure from like people around you? To be available and to take care- Can I tell you something? Yeah. I'm gonna back you up. Okay, so I have two older kids, right? That I have from a previous marriage. Yes. I'm very involved, okay. We have dual custody, they're with me every the week, but I also see them- Like 50, 50? Yeah, but I also see them on the weeks that they're not with me. I'm always talking, whatever. People are like so blown away. When, oh my God, you're the best dad. I was just gonna say that. Nobody says that to their mom. Never. That's like 100%. The bar, men have really set the bar low and I feel bad about that, but it's totally true. It's like, if you're an every other weekend dad and you just show up, everyone's like, wow, what a great dad. So I back you up with that. No, by the way, I think it's so terrible. That's 100% true. And like, for example, I was saying, my husband's in like Miami for the week, right? That's why I can't stay for your party. I gotta go back because I'm gonna be, I gotta go home. And I feel like it's not the same, like if it was the opposite way around, I would be shunned, like how can she go away? I'd be so judged, like, oh my gosh, she's gone for a week. I leave for like 48 hours. I get people just like, my own mother's like, how can you leave your kids for 48 hours? What's more important, your kids or your work? I'm like, mom, I'll be back in like 27 hours, but there's so much more pressure on a woman to be present and available for their children than for a guy. Like my husband's gone for 10 days. He comes back and takes the kids to a basketball, their basketball practice. And like, everyone there is like, oh my God, you're such a wonderful dad, how great. Oh my God, you're so wonderful, you're so present. I'm like, fuck off. Like really? Who takes them to the doctors, their dentist, who's feeding them, who's going grocery shopping, who's like, what kind of bullshit is that? Now, hold on. Now I'm gonna back up the guys here for a second. No, no, no. Save us, please go. No, 100% true, but those societal pressures come from, they start from nature. And what I mean by that is, it's far more rare for a mother to abandon her children. That's true. Naturally. You're right. Naturally. And look, I've witnessed this, I have four children. The bond that a mother has with their child, first of all, it starts way before it does with the father. You're connected to the baby. You're growing the baby. We don't make that bond after they're born, and it actually starts to develop after they're born and the months are with us. Mom's already got that strong ass bond. So it comes from there. So it does come from there. Just like if you and your husband were out with your kids and a dog, a rabid dog came and tried to attack you guys and you ran away with the kids, everybody wouldn't say anything. If your husband took the kids and ran away and left you there, there'd be a different judgment, right? So there's different pressures. That being said, it's 100% agree that the bar's super low. The bar's super low. I think it's the same thing with men, with the providing, right? Like I have one of my best friends, his wife actually, they both make decent money. She makes better money than he does. He is one of the most active father. I mean, he gets them up and feeds them for breakfast. He takes them to school. He picks them up. He does a lot because his job is flexible hours wise. She works longer hours. So he does all this crazy shit. But he gets kind of pumped and disrespected by some of our peers and our friends because he doesn't make as much money as his wife does. So it's like, I mean, we get judged differently by everybody else, but I totally agree. It's that way for women being present and then men for being the provider, if you're not. And what happens, I feel like what people don't only talk that much about is that there's so many, like this, it's the devil's in the details when you're raising kids, right? Like there's so many things that you have to do in the minutia of things, right? The coordinating, the organizing, which is very time consuming, right? The driving to like the practices or the doctors or all of that stuff, the little things that take up a lot of time. So if you're a working mom, like I am, plus you have all the minutia stuff, then you're not gonna have as much time to do the quote unquote fun stuff, right? Like doing all the things that the dad gets to do. So then what happens is this is like a bonus contention, right? I mean, I'm talking for a friend here. This is true. This is true, that's why I'm laughing right now. I'm speaking on my friend's behalf. Dad shows up, all right kids, we're gonna have ice cream. Yes, or like, hey kids, let's go at the trampoline park or hey kids, let's go play basketball, hey kids. And then I'm stuck or my friend's stuck doing all this shit work, you know, plus actual work in my career. You know, let me tell you something, I'm gonna make you feel better right now. Okay. Because again, because I got divorced, you're gonna make my friend feel better. I'm gonna make your friend feel better. I got to witness this firsthand. So I was the fun dad in my first marriage. And when I got divorced, I really had to get involved because otherwise, I'm not gonna see them half the time. So I did the doctors, I did the school, I know the teacher, make them lunch, but it was a learning curve because I did none of that before. Here's what I realized though, that's how you know your kids. I did thought I knew my kids, but I didn't know my kids. You're 100% right. It was the storytelling, the putting in bed, put your pajamas on, make your breakfast, make your lunch, take you to the doctor. That's how you know your kids. So although it's the work and it's the whatever, otherwise you don't know, you don't really know, you don't really develop that relationship. Okay, first of all, you don't exactly, but it goes back to this whole, you don't know what you don't know, right? So my friend would say that, you know, when she wakes up with the kids every morning to make breakfast and make the lunches and coordinate and organize, then like I said, then the girl, okay, only has a finite amount of time to be super efficient with taking care of herself, which is, you know, let's say working out or whatever it is, like working out for sure, for my friend, and you know, and then also making sure the house stuff is looked after, then you have like three or four hours to be super efficient with like your professional life, you know, versus a guy who can spend what, 12, 15 hours a day, let's say doing that, and then 45 minutes of like what, like, hey kids, let's, you know, like I'm gonna take you for, you know, like let's do some backflips, or let's, you know, watch, you know, like let me do something super like dangerous with you. Well, you'll love me and your mom will fucking free me out. And that becomes the balance, that becomes a relationship. I find this conversation so funny because I think we've all had these conversations. Oh, right? Oh, I saw a video once that you posted where I thought maybe your wife would have like freaked out. I think you took your kid and you were like, you were throwing them up. She gets so mad. I launched him onto that beanbag. I'll throw you the beanbag and we'll be over ducking. I'll take him from here. Oh my God. We can toss him across the room. My husband, when my kid was three years old, he threw him on a Velcro wall. Okay? I could throw, okay. And like, okay. And I was standing somewhere else and my back, my back was to the thing, right? And then like, I'm like, that can't be happening with my, I was like, that can't be Dylan. Throws him, he ends up upside down my kid. Okay, they couldn't get him off. I fucking lost my shit, okay? And then you see all these parents like, oh my God. And my husband was like, what's the big deal? He can come off and he knew I was like gonna freak out, which is why he like had to pretend like it was no big deal. But like my kids laugh. They go, he's the most fun parent in the world. Meanwhile, you know what I mean? Like it's like the kids don't, the kids end up liking the fun parent more because they're fun. Yeah, but then look, look at mother's day and father's day, you know? It's like, the kids know this. They know. Mama is special. It covers full circles, they get older. Mama is special. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it better for my friend. Yeah. I wish you would bring your husband down here once. I mean, Why? It's not fair. I'm pretty sure we all get along. I'm pretty sure. I'm sure you're gonna get along. You would get along. Every guy loves him. I told you, every guy loves him. He's also like very, he does all sorts of like crazy stuff like that, what do you call that thing? Hydrofoiling now is his big thing. Hydrofoils and like, he is like a big biker and like. Are you kids super? Cause you guys are both for athletic. Yeah, they're athletic. They are. I mean, they do a lot of that stuff. Like my little one is the soccer player, basketball, baseball, everything. I mean, How old are your kids now? Seven and nine. Oh, okay. So you're only a few years away from teenagers. Well, A few years. But the nine year old, maybe three, four years. I mean, the funny thing is like, they already feel like teenagers. I feel like in today's time, I can only imagine. You have no idea. But I feel, you know what's funny? People who have like babies think that's a lot of work. I think it's harder now because of all the stuff that like you have to deal with. You just wait till you. What are some of the reflections? What are some of the reflections you've had with the kids? In what way? Seeing yourself, like where you're like, like you see something, you're like, you want to be mad. You're like, God damn it. My daughter is like exactly like me. She's like super obstinate. But she's like, she's sassy and she's, she's very athletic. She's sassy and she's very, she's observant. So she notices things and calls me out on certain things all the time. And I can't get mad at her because of one side of me, I appreciate that and I want her to be able to do that. But I'm like, how do you know this? You're seven, you know? To me, that's something that I find super, like it just, it blows my mind how like, basically these kids could mirror you or they mirror what you, that you don't necessarily love about yourself and because kids are just so true honest souls, like they don't know how to lie. They just stay at how it is. It's a rough, you have no choice but to kind of look internally and look at yourself. You know what I mean? It just gets, and I have two, I have two teenagers, a toddler and then an infant. So I get all the, all the crazy. God, you're just procreating like, like it's unbelievable. You think it never works, right? I was gonna say, when do you have time for all this? Like sex all the time. Maybe everything. Like you just go home all day and just like, what are you doing at home? I'm not my family right now. I'm just saying that. No, it's, but you know, when they're teenagers, it's tough because, because as they're growing up, you're like the coolest thing ever. And then all of a sudden you're not. They don't want to listen to you and they don't want to share with you when there's a problem. It happens already by the way. That's really hard, you know? When you see something's wrong and you want to talk to them and they don't want to open up and you're the old, they're, you know, teenagers so they're smart enough and old enough. You can't like force them like, what are you gonna do? And it's really, or they have a tough, you know, relationship with a friend or the boyfriend breaks up with them or the girlfriend breaks up with them. And it's like real, like this is, it's not like, oh my, you know, I can't find my truck, my toy truck. It's like the girl that I really like now says she doesn't like me because of this, that and the other. And you just like, oh, yeah, these are real, you know, issues now we gotta deal with. And then the consequences of bad decisions are massive as they get older, like drugs, alcohol, driving under the influence, you know, unprotected sex. I mean, who knows. Like real, like real shit, basically. Like real shit. So it's really, really hard. It's much more challenging for sure. So yeah, it's what you're looking forward to. Wonderful, I can't wait. It sounds so fun. It sounds so fun. I got good kids too, but it's difficult. I just find it super difficult. And I think that it's just really, what I think would be real, it's what I find even now is like when a kid has issues and they don't want to, like you see something in your kid that is, that scares you about how they react. Like when they, if someone is mean to them or when they have whatever it is and you have no power to change that, you can't help them or you can't like be like. You can't just step in. You can't just step in and be like, why do you care about that or don't do that? Like they are their own people, right? And there's so much power you can have, even with kids who are nine at that point. It's really, I mean, my daughter, she had, some kids tried to bully her because they were making fun of her shoes and this was funny. And I got Adam on the phone cause he's a shoe connoisseur. And he basically is like, yeah, he like, totally. He's like, no, those are, you know, I don't remember what they were. Jordan, whatever number or something. And, you know, got her hyped up. Tell them Uncle Adam will kick their ass. It was really cool. But, you know, one thing with teenagers, this is a cool thing that my wife taught me is cause it's so hard to get them to talk. So she said, just create space. I'm like, what do you mean? She goes, you know, drive them to school every day but don't say anything in the car. Eventually, they'll start to talk to you. It's so true. So if you just sit around each other and do nothing, say, hey, no electronics, we're gonna be off our phones. What am I gonna do? Nothing, we're just gonna sit around. If you do that enough, they start to open up and talk. You're gonna have to force them. So just being in silence. Just being around. Just allowing for the space for conversation to happen. That makes it happen. Interesting. Cause you can't force it. Well, you know, it's funny because what happens in that a lot of times is like you, what people usually overcompensate and be like, so tell me what happened at school. What happened to what, you know, did you like a teacher? Like, and they don't want to tell you anything because it's when you ask, by the way, again, a microcosm of life right there, right? It's like the same thing in adults, right? Sometimes you've got to give a little bit of space for people to kind of get out of their shell and feel comfortable, but it's about reading the room and knowing that. You know what I learned with clients is when you ask them a question and you want more to get from them, so you'd ask them like, so, you know, tell me about your fitness history and then they'll talk, talk, talk, talk and they'll stop. You just don't say anything and wait. People don't like silence. You just look at it. You're uncomfortable with silence. Like five to 10 seconds of that and they'll tell you more and then pause. Tilt your head. Five seconds of quiet and then they'll tell you more. That's so true. And then people just keep telling you more and more. It's a really, I learned that from a therapist. It's extra 100% true. Do you want me to teach you, now we're talking about like a, I'm gonna teach you something for it to change the neuroplasticity in your brain, like an actual physical thing you can do. Yes. Are you ready? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. You're gonna make us close our eyes. Nope, you're gonna take your hands. Okay. The live audience participate too. This is crazy. Okay, so with your thumb, I want you to go with your index finger, touch your index finger, then your second, third, and then your pinky, okay? With this hand, I want you to do the same thing, but the opposite, you're gonna go pinky first, that finger, the middle finger, and then the index, okay? So now we gotta do them at the same time? At the same time. Can you do it? I do, yeah. No way you can. I'm doing it right now. Let's give me a headache. Look, watch out. It's crazy, right? Yeah. It will change the way your brain. I almost did it. Oh, I've messed up that time. That's like doing this, rubbing your belly. I find this even more difficult. Oh, no, that's more difficult for you. This is more difficult, because what happens is, this will teach you patience. This will teach you patience, because look at Adam, you do exactly what most people do. Almost nine out of 10 people, they try it once, they're like, fuck it, I can't stand it, I'm not doing it again. Which is human nature. It's the people that are like, hey, you know what, I'm gonna try it again. Adam, I'm surprised, I'm not surprised. And if you do it over and over again, and like, practice it, and get good at it, and get faster and faster, it like teaches you, isn't that crazy? I don't know why I just thought about it. What is, you're like, that's well, let's get on with it. Wow. He's giving me a headache. Yeah, exactly. It just made me come up with this new supplement idea. What is the most recent parent failure for yourself? Something that you look back and you're like, fuck, I fucked up, I shouldn't have done that. Oh my God. Yeah. Sometimes I lose my shit. I like, for example, I think, this sounds so stupid. I think what happened was my kid accidentally spilt, and sometimes she's like, she's a little bit of a, like a, like a klutz. Yeah. And she like knocked over the milk, her milk, and it spilled all over my computer. And I was like, oh my God, you're such a klutz. And I was like, oh my God. Like I was so mad at myself for like weeks about saying that word, because you don't want to say that word. But this was like, I think this was like, in a row of like four things that she kind of like made a mistake with. So like before that happened, she was at school and she tripped over a ball. And she tripped over a ball, she knocked her forehead on a metal bench, split her head open, the school called me. I was like, I ran over to the school, took her to the emergency, went to the special doctor, the plastic surgeon. We had to get her head for four stitches. It was like a whole thing, right? And I was like, it was awful. Cause she tripped. She was wearing shoes that she shouldn't have wore and I told her not to wear them. And I, and then, and then after that, like three other consecutive things happened. So this was like the last draw. And I was very mad at myself for saying that. But what are you supposed to do as a parent? Yeah. How did you remedy that? How do you remedy that? I basically took me a long time to forgive myself. And then I overcompensated it by then telling her for the next God knows how long, still do how kind she is, how smart she is, how powerful. So you go the, like the pendulum had to sway. I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer is. What is the answer? You admit you were wrong. You admit that it was the wrong thing to say. You know what? Kids are smart. Yeah. You know what? I had a morning, I was stressed this, that. You did that, and I reacted. And I said something. I said something I don't truly believe. And I'm sorry. The answer is just to admit you were wrong. Just call it, kind of bring it to attention and say that. Yeah. And then you don't have to praise her when she's not really being. 100%. I know you're a good mom, by the way, is you think you've thought about this. Yeah, you care. I mean, listen, it's like, I ruminate over this because you know. I have moments like that. Cause you know what, you're still, a parent is like, you're still a human being, right? And you come to, I react a lot. It takes a lot of energy for me to work on not reacting because I'm super impulsive in my, in general. So it's like something, it's like a work in progress. And so that was something that like really bothered me because I know, even on my podcast, you know, here I have a podcast where I have the best people, the best experts in the world. Psychologists, behavioral therapists, you know, cognitive Stanford, Harvard, whoever, come on and tell me about trauma in kids and how trauma leads to chronic illness. Trauma leads to all sorts of mental illnesses down the road. And then here I am with all this like armed with all this information. And then I do something that then I'm gonna be telling a story to my own kid's life that then she may feel a certain way based on what I'm saying and to have that type of like, to have that type of guilt about it. So I, and then I don't wanna be that parent who just like praises to your point. So I think that's a very good point, Adam, that like, I think a great thing to do is like admit fault and be like, listen, I screwed up as a mom, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. But sometimes we say things we don't mean, please forgive me. As like, like treat a child like you would an adult, you know, and, you know, but you think, you don't think about that. We all go back. No, obviously hindsight is 2020, right? We're sitting here talking about it. So it's easier to piece that together. When you're in the moment, emotions are flying and rolling around, it's probably harder to piece that together. Right, and you just say shit, like, you know, I think it's a real, I think it's an art and it's actually, it's a skill to know when to bite your tongue and not say something and to be quiet when you have all the ammunition and fire just to like go, you know, to do the opposite. Yeah, no, it's, we all have those moments. I have moments where I mean, I think about him still. I remember once when my kid, he was real little, we were potty training him and he wet the bed and I got mad at him for it. And then, you know, one morning I go to get him and he's like sitting in the corner. I'm like, what's up, buddy? What are you doing over there? He's like, I put myself in timeout, you know, because I wet. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, what a piece of shit I have. Right, right, right. I mean, it just feels so bad for that. Guilt is a real thing, you know, like it's terrible. Oh yeah, that's terrible. I just think it's very difficult. I think raising children in general is very, very difficult. That's, it'll make you grow. If you care, it'll make you grow. If you care. Because you have to. Because you fuck up all the time. You have no choice. You have to. I don't, do you ever find that like people with like, the differences between, don't you ever think like, people who don't have kids versus do have kids, like the kind of like efficiency, like I was talking about earlier, that you have to be when you have kids and like the mental energy and energy allocation that you have to put towards that is so exponentially higher than when you didn't have kids. Oh yeah, but you can't, it's hard to understand until you're there. Cause I mean, okay. It's like fitness. Other than, well, more than that. I mean, other than your own children, like before you have kids, do you really love or care about anything more than yourself? Right, until you have kids. Probably not. I mean, you love your parents, you love your partner or whatever. But then when you have your kids, you're like, oh, I really love something more than myself. So I mean, how do you know what that's like until you experience it? You don't. That's why, like anything in life, going back to everything we're talking about, it's like, you don't know what you don't know until you put your, you're in that situation or when you try that certain thing. You ever do this? Now, once you become a parent, you ever do this where you're like, you know, maybe you have a bad habit or you do something that you're maybe not so proud of, whatever you think, am I the kind of person that I wouldn't want my kid to grow up and be like? Or am I the kind of person that I'd want my daughter to date? Like I'll do that with myself sometimes. And it's really powerful motivator. Oh my God, so true. I do that, I do that all the time. You do that, you do that too. Oh yeah, it's a very powerful motivator. I was like, would I want my son to say this or to act this way or would I want my daughter to bring home a guy who does that? And then what do you do about it? I change, I try to change and be the person that I would want my kid to be like or want my kid to be married to, you know? It's a very powerful motivator. It's so hard though. It's super hard. It's so easy to be selfish and not think about those things, right? When your, when their kids are even small, right? And like just go about your business or in general because it's one thing to want to change. It's a different thing to actually do the steps to change. And that takes a lot of time and commitment. And it takes you to be bold. Yeah, it takes you to be bold. Exactly, exactly. Oh yeah, it's a great circle right back there. You're always a blast to talk to Jen. Oh, but thank you. One of our favorite people, people have to read your book, listen to your talks because what you say is extremely applicable and relevant, extremely applicable and relevant. Thank you. I think it's important that the thing, I appreciate that. I wanted to just say that what I like about, and I'm not just saying this because it's my book, but in general, I think it's really important when, if I'm right, I wrote a book that I feel that has practical actionable things that people can do to get to where the, what they want to do tomorrow, what they don't have the guts to do today, as opposed to just talking from a white tower, giving people the actual tools to do it themselves is I think just, it's fundamental for change and to get to where you want to be. So yeah, thanks. So I'm happy I wrote this book and so I hope someone, they like it. I think they will. I think they will. And you're an example of it. Aw, thanks, Al. Thanks for coming on, Jen. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the weak part. Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.