 That time's fair, it was Dain Wales, the caravan and instruments, and all that. There was a pile up at the pub, Mick Healy, Fy Schittleston had no one been in Berlin. I was in for a shoot at the time, I got away with it. I was expecting ten year in the... Mick, ten year for this post office. So he went up to shots. There was only up shots, ten month. He escaped in a butcher van. He's the only guy who's actually escaped. When people say they escaped for a prison, open prisons, you just walk out, but shots is a high security prison. Whereas it's hard to get out, but Mick went to the van and he was away. He turned up at the pub this day. If they're just escaping? No, he was away for about a year, a year and a half, and he'd come back, he'd been in Germany, in England, everywhere and all that. There's quite a smart character, Mick, and he'd come up and he says, listen, he says, I'm going to your key. He says, am I in a bank up £6 million? Would you be interested? And I went, I? Of course I went. But I says, is it a gore? He says, well, I'm going to get away for a couple of months, get everything sorted out, and I'll be back to see you. When they came back to see me, he just walked in the door and my answer was I. Cos I always wanted to be the age of 30. I wanted to be a millionaire James. And I always wanted to go to my bare, open up my nightclub. You must have been close, but at that age? Well, at that age, I was doing no bad, but I could have got away with that turn. I was doing turns at the time for £100,000, a couple of hundred grand, you know what I mean? And a bit, two and three re-splits. But I was always a spender, James. I've been a nightclub guy. There was 17 years of age for a community bosto. And I was always spent for the day in case you're no here tomorrow. You spent a lot, but because there was a good chance of me being back in the jail, you were trying to enjoy it as much as you can. Unless I get killed. Aye. That was the reason. Cos people always used to say, they would still say, how did you know, I used to say money, how did you know just put a lot by it, I used to say, I was the opinion, I might need them or a, it helped me a busser, whatever. So, but, Mick, so I've agreed to that. Me and his brother went down, we left the Glasgow, we were going down to Torquay, we was down at Torquay. This was May 1991. I was just trying to turn fair. They had a young boy at the time, he just turned two. He was born in Stockpall in 89. And we were staying Crow Hill Road at the time up at Spam Valley, as I told you. Did you know why they called it Spam Valley? Because they were saving, they were eating Spam so they could pay their mortgage. So that's what they called it. So I said, fuck it, get a go, you know what I mean? Never thinking I was going to be caught. Never, never, not one second. So me and Mick's brother, we were designated to take the guns, baloclavers, sandcuffs, didn't we, Torquay? So we jumped in, he came to meet me, we had the two bags. We jumped in a private taxi, and he says, don't go to Central's, we were in the train. So we went to Motherwell, we were going through Strathclyde Park, and before you know it, the fucking police, it's a motor outrider, he's waving the fucking taxi down the masses, doing a bow, I went, fucking hell, he says with me. Down here, I said, we're getting a knick already. But the guy just went, I said, taxi driver, slow down mate, you're going too fast. So I said, thank fuck. So we got to Motherwell, got to London, we were walking about Torquay and Houston Station, with guns not at the police or other place, and I think we jumped to 20 Exeter, and Mick and the other boys met us there, they'd stolen cars and that, and Torquay had a hired car and a full-side, you know that. So they took us back, he says, look, we're basing ourselves on a caravan site, and we're basing the caravan site, painting, there's painting in Torquay, there's three main places, there's painting in Torquay and Brixam, Brixam's a fishing village. So we're basing there, and I ended up, I ended up getting shielded in, and we moved to our seaside at Fingmae, into a shali, she came down with a wane, and our plan was, Sheila used to be married to an Iranian, our plan was to go down to London, once, what was it, a million pound, we were going to go down to London, she was going to get into a bank safety deposit box, speak Iranian, she stayed there for six years, put the money in up to Glasgow, then off, that was the sort of a plan, and a bit Mick, while he was on the run, he met these two lassies, and he met this lassie sorry in London, and her name was San Jean Baby, and she had a sister called Natalie Baby, they came from Montpellier in France, so Mick says after a few days when we were down there, he went, I'm going to get Fingmae that lassie from France earlier, to blend in his tourists, I went for fuck's sake, I said, what are you going to tell her? He said, tell her to swipe up for a holiday, and she phoned Mick, she's going to bring my sister Fingmae, San Jean, I think it was, and he was going, hi, so she came down, and there was another boy, Tam Carrigan, Tam Harper there, and we were going to put the pub and all that, but while we were there, we were reconnasing the bank, and at that time in 1991, they never had alarms, and in the bank they were just alarming the vault, and this was a holding centre for the Nat West, they were full of devin, so they were reckoned there was £6 million there, so our plan was to break in here, hold them up, take the money, and go, you know what I mean? So, but for that two weeks, we were just acting as normal tourists, fuck, I went to the zoo, with the wane, with the wane and fucking the messies, and we went to this sports centre, and we came around there, and I tried to play badminton, and I could play it, but years later I became an internationalist in the fucking nightmare, you know what I mean? And so, it came to Dede, but two days before it, I'd been out in a car way, Tam Carrigan, and Robert Harper, and we'd get poked with the coppers, we'd sweetie rappers, and we'd throw them out the fucking windy, coppers, it's who you are using, I gave my brother Gary's name, so we'd get back, with old Mick James and that, and Tam and Robert went, we've got a bad feeling about this, he says we're getting off, I went for a fucks at your candy, so these two boys got off, and left us to get through with the robbery, so they were away in the robbery, the back door was drilled to get in the back door, and there was an inside, at the back of the bank, it was a big bank, there was three flares, and in the back of the bank, there was a, like a holding centre and a stair case, and you could see the vault, so there was a stair, at the bottom of the stair case, there was a hidey hole constructed, we could fit inside it, you know what I mean? But I was doing there the first night, and there was a pool table, no other rest there, and contrary to contradictions, I would like to put this straight, a lot of people were saying, oh you were saying you were in the bank, blah blah blah blah, but I'll tell you now, anybody that's listening, I was in the bank when the bank got raided, when Mick came up to the pub, he says Ian, he says I'll make it easy for you, he says see if you agree to it, he says I can trust you 100%, he says I know you're getting the bank, they bother, he says but will you sit outside in the car, cos I know you'll no go away, I won't, so you want me to sit in the car and I say that? I went hi, I was shocked at that, I was quite willing to get in the bank. I think it's an easier job. Oh an easier job, so I would have went anyway, so but other people have been saying that, I was saying oh I was in the bank, but to put it straight to yourself James, I was in the bank the first night when it broke in to you, there was no alarms in the bank, there was upstairs the pool tables for the bank and there was about 18 staff in there, they used to go up there for lunch break, so we would clean pool and all that, and the hidey hole got constructed and they would bring me dustpan and all the fucking dirt and all that away, so once that was done, I went back, I went out of the bank, and I went back to the caravan site where my missies was, and the two French lassies, they don't know what's happening, Mick namesies were about some missies, so I went to bed, so I went back, and I was to go back to the bank about half seven, outside half seven, eight or seven, it was just after eight or seven, and funny enough, I was watching the TV in the caravan, guess what I was watching, the Sweeney, because we're doing a bank, so I'm lying here that I haven't been for fuck's sake, I'm going, it's time to work, I can't be a fucking millionaire, I can't be a fucking millionaire, only fairs in horses. Ah she's a fucking millionaire, no I'm in, because when you do things like that, you don't expect to get caught, no I'm in. You can't get in by that frame, the two boys that have left, they've got fear and I'm off. I'll tell you, there was a good story about the two as well, what happened after it, but they don't know it, I mean they just didn't fucking say we're away, but eh, so was this eight o'clock at night? This is eight o'clock no more, this is eight o'clock half eight no more. And they're in the bank? They're in the bank, they went into the hidey hole. Were they playing pool or not in the bank? Ah yeah, they're playing pool up stairs and all that. Why would I read it to you Robert the next day? Aye, aye he was a freaking, that's unbelievable. And eh, so they went and put their cell in the hidey hole. So, the first plan was if the other boy wouldn't have fucked off, when the door, the first person that came in, right, there was a system, a rotor where when he was in, the next person in the bank had turned up, pressed the bell, he'd opened the door and bring him in. So, everything changed because the other two boys went away, carrying in the harbour. Eh, the plan was then, just let them all come in, then jump out and gather them up, cos what they were going to do is, go to the door, first person come in, then go and just pull them in, tie them up. So at the end of the day, there was about 16 people tied up, gun pointed at them and all that. Right. Now what they done is, they, see for the hidey hole, they saw the thing, they opened the, the vault, and they've come out with a trolley, so the boys jumped out, right in. But, that this bank vault, he went in yet, then there was another gate, and that took you up to the treasury rail gate, and all the cash was sitting there, and they, ran back out and like, there's the fucking money, there's the key for this. So the manager, I think his name was Brian something, he was trying to say, look listen, see the guy that's got the key, Roy the chief cashier, he's late for his work. So, we're only having all that, just, just thought they were playing fucking, past the parcel. So a shotgun get fired, and it's always been says, in the newspapers and all that, and you know what stories come up, that, there was a woman shot in the heat. That's what I heard. I, well, this is, there's, there's a wee bit true to that, but the, the shotgun was fired into Ceylon as a warning, stop fucking about, the plaster came down, hut this young lass in the heat, and we're all screaming, she's been shot. That's, that's the honest truth. So nobody died? Nobody died. Years later, James will tell you later, actually, the Torquay Herald, when the Hing came up with the bomb, and the slashing with me, they'd heard about it down there, and through a journalist going to touch Cadeen, talk about the, the bang, and we'd be willing to apologise to the, the lassie, and put them all through and done that story. But anyway, what happened was, the boys thought that the manager, that the manager declared the sale, and he'd get ran into the fucking bars, shotgun, put his seeds, opened that fucking vault, and he's shouting, I can't even get a key. So guns went down, and by that time, fucking the doorbell was ringing. It was Roy the Chief cashier, and the manager was trying to say, look, let me go to the door, I'll open the fucking door, and that's that. But, see, when we went to court, it was like a comedy era, most of the staff was saying, see, because of your fric, because of your accents, they were saying it was Jamaicans. They said they were Italian Jamaicans, this and that, so the boys just ran out, and the car, away, so we went back to the car, and I said, so how did you just not open the door, to let him in, if that was a guy with the keys to the vault? We didn't believe him. Was it the guy with the vault? It was him as well. And he said 6 million. Could you see the 6 million? I could see the 6 million in, through the bars, you know what I mean? Fuck's sake. It was in the nest of the vault, and that's what the guy kept saying, there's guy blind, the manager, look, that will be Roy, the Chief, you have this key. But at this time, just what I need, but so the boys ran out, went to the car, I think Mickey made his anyway, doon, so we went back to the caravan site, we were, I went in, by Mrs. Lamp, where's the money? Ha ha ha ha, I went, no go on it. She went fuck. So Mickey came back, we were all gutted, came into my caravan, I went, look, he says, I'll need your link, of these two, two French lassies, until, say to them, look, you just need to leave, I'll get them, the fucking train, and whatever. He says, listen, if we go to tell you, we would access stuff, he's caused the other two boys, went away, we'd access stuff, it had to be fucking done away, and Mickey says he'd done that, but it hadn't been done, so me and his brother, says right, we'll get rid of it. So, Sheila kept saying, I think you better get to fuck this, he's done it, see cause we never get the money, James, I just, I was sitting, Blasey's saying, look at the money, it's not going to be a big inquiry, but there's been a fucking gunfire, and fuck knows rotten, it's been broken or planned, and all the rest of it. So it's still serious is, it's just to say, where are you getting the money, I don't know why. I had that attitude, she's going, let's go, and I'm going, make a breakfast and all that, right? Instead of just fucking off to Linden and that right away, we were going to go with tickets to get on the train. So, me and James really went with these, went up to his caravan, got the two bags, but little did we know that, seeing they'd come out in the bank, they'd saw them jumping into the car, and we'd swap, they took the plate, and we swapped into another car, and this guy, he was a painter and decorator, and he gave the registration number, but it wasn't the right one, and he had to compose the number and they'd go to it, and it was a, a car at McKeeley, it's rented out, and a false, a false name, and it was saying we'd do it at the caravan site, so two coppers arrived at the caravan site, when me and James, they were just taking these two bags, there was three big ponds, it was massive as site, we said we'll just go and ditch them there, then we'll go up to Kent and get to Fark, so as me and James were walking down to the site, down to this point, he says to me, I think we're getting foleyed, I said nah, don't be silly, so we go to this point, opened the two zips of the old house, to throw the stuff in, you know what I mean, there were screwdrivers and all that, jowls, there was excess, fucking hodd cuffs and all of that, and flares and all that, so an next minute, so I'm going to shoot a bush, he's going like that, right, get down the fucking deck, my whole world's just fucking right like that, I'm going to do the fuck see, it was a guy, he was about six feet forward, a leather jaker, he was holding to me, looked like a 45 or a magnum, and I says to James, I says look, I says don't fucking move us, can't at all shoot us, right? So see when we're lying down there, that he's come down James to put the cuff on, but he's no put mines on right, he's cuffed us two together, so he was a big cancel, he opened the bags, he's finger me the bags, put me the shooters, and I heard the gun, he says right, used to get up to the caravan he came for, so we were going up to the caravan he came for, and he went like that, not again to that one, he put in observes, observing us, only for about half an hour, how unlucky was that, know what I mean? So I caught up on an hour, that was yours, and he just bumped into me by accident? No, what happened is that they'd went to the site, see after the bank robbery and all that, about an hour later, they'd been to the site because this motor had, the hired car we had, know what I mean? Under a different name, that was the thing we'd booked into the site, and they came to the site, and he says to the site manager, is there any dodgy characters? Blah blah blah blah, and he says there was a group of people here from Glasgow, there was one, got a scar, this was other blue carrying, blah blah blah blah blah, and the car was there, so they set up thing me, but they couldn't see when they saw us walking, they couldn't see their radios, their radios cos they weren't working, so one of them says, I'll follow them, you're going to get back up. So the time this guy arrested us, he said we're walking up, and we're going fuck, make sure I don't do that stuff, so he puts into this caravan where they'd been, so see instead of the guy, he went into the caravan, he said he got on his weird cuffed, and he says right shortly the curtains, and instead he come then sitting in we as right, this all happened quick, he stood outside, and I'm sitting and I'm going like that, fucking cannae believe us, we're going to get me 18 fucking here for this, so I'm sitting next round at my cuff just came up, and I went fuck this, there was people walking by, and we could look out, really don't, the curtain of me back, and we could see, he's stunning with the bags, and he's leather-drake, and he's got his gun and he's broke it, but people were going like that, here maybe he didn't stand there, he's like get away, get away, I'm the police and all that right, and he was turning his back, and I says to my pal, the next time he turns his back, I says I'm going first, loving room right along the hall, I look at that back one day, he went, you'll get shot, I says I don't give a fuck, but this time I'd only done 18 month, so I'm saying. Which was your biggest sentence? Oh, this was going to be fucking 18 year, 20 year, so that's what I'd done, I says you come and he went, oh I don't know, I don't know, I says, well I'm gone. So anyway I get out the window, the whole fucking caravan was shaking, my pal was telling us after that, but the copper's back was turned, he was talking to somebody, so we never saw all of this, and I'd get the cuff off, I've ran up to my caravan, she le'r zer was the wane, I says I've just escaped, my my my my my my, I had hit her tracks with Jacob on to her, put another one on, I says look you may hear your way down to Linden, and I'll get you in there, I says I need to get to fuck, but I didn't know where I was gone, so I've ran down to Cywethaf, oedd y bêech a'r byd, yna ymweld i'r gwrthon. Byddwn i'r pwn o'n ei gwasanaeth. Felly, doedd hyn yn ei gwasanaeth, ac mae'n gweithio'r pwn. Ac yw'n gweithio. Mae'n ddweud i'r gofio'r gwyllt. Mae'r rhan o'n gyfnogi o'r arferio yng Nghymru a'r cyfrion o'r gallai cyfrion. Mae'n gweithio'r gwylltau ar y gwaith, ac mae'n rhan o'n gwylltau ar y gwasanaeth, Rhyw gweld o'r baith i gyd yn copd? Fyddwn y gall, iawn, fod yw'r aelod yn ystafell ar y bus. Rhyw gyrswn i'n gweithio. Wrthulawr rhaid i'w pram. Rhaid iawn James Cili yn y gdaeth. Rydyn ni wedi bod wedi cael eu gweld. Rhaid i dda chi, y gwrdd, yn ddwy'n dweud mae'r adeg 好idotiadau mewn ddwy'n dweud o'r oedol. Mae ddwy'n ddwy'n gwaith ddaeth. Mae'n ddwy'n ddwy i ddwy fwy fydd. I made my way to this Brick Sam fishing village crawling and fuck knows what, I went on the phone, a couple of good pals told them what happened. It says, right listen, it says, we're going to go into the phone, come back doing this, it says, I've made money to record that. I went on the phone and it says, look somebody's going to be doing it at 12 o'clock, they're coming for London, can you hang on then? This was fucking 2 in the afternoon. I said fuck right, so I just went and I sat fucking in this woodland wasn't just lying about there, so I've creeped out to wear my clothes and I see this boy and he's sweating like fuck, I wouldn't say his name. He's like that and I've jumped in, he's like that. Fucking hell, he says, what happened there? I says, I've got to ask. So I'm back to his house, he stayed in Kensington and we're sitting there and we're having a couple of joints. I was at 5 in the morning by this time, he says, look, I'm fucked. He says, if you're fucked, go on up. I said, hang on, I hadn't even saw his wife yet. He says, go on up to that room. He says, just sleep up there. He says, I've seen the morning. He says, I'm going to stay here and just put another couple of joints. So a couple of hours later I'm fucking getting shaped a bit and I thought it was his pals playing a fucking thing, me wind up. I mean, they're going, ah, drug squad, drug squad. He went to you and I went, I'm Gary McDonald, my brother's name and I've ended up saying, he says, what are you doing here? I says, well, I'm just in here looking for work. I says, I went to school with the boy and all of that, blah blah blah, he's put me up, blah blah blah and they went, have you ever been in trouble, Gary? And I went, I eat here, they're slashing the guys, throw it. So they says, oh, I typical fucking gobbos, that's what they all think down there. Everybody's all chipping men for the gobbos and that. So I gave his data buff and all that and they were more interested in him because this boy, I think he was dealing drugs down there. So why were you in his house? His doors went in? His doors went in. For drugs? For eating the morning. He was under observation getting fucking fine with your meeting, these turks in the West End and all that, but I didn't know this and he didn't know, he says his house had never been fucking turned out before on that one. So I heard them outside, I'm in the room, I heard them outside the room. I go, oh no, they went, didn't you him? And they were like, that was his name and he played it right, he went, I'm no fucking tell news name, kicking in my fucking door and all that. So I'd say Gary McDonald's my brother's name and it worked out fine because if he'd have said his name, I'm fucked. So he played it right, he just says, no get the fuck, no that. So they took him away, James, in the real art, he meant the real art. He says, look, we've just decided, he says, I'm just going to let you go, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, fuck, I've never stood with that on before on me. So he's went away, I haven't done the stairs, his wife's there, she's seven month pregnant and his first time I'd met her and I says to her, I went, I says, for fuck's sake, I says, long views been here, she says, we've just been here 18 months, no been opposed. I says, and I, I says, I'm the robbery and all the rest of it. So I says to her, I says, look, I says, how'd you get to the elephant castle? She says, I'll show you. And she says, there's a hundred pound, which was good, did I say? And she took me to the one of the stations. So I got off at the elephant castle. It's a big roundabout, I always remember. It was in the jail years later, I was bullied. There was a pub Charlie Chaplin, they used to say, hi Charlie Chaplin. I said, how'd you get there and just turn them. So I met this guy there, one of the relatives for my brothers. He took me up with these high flats at the elephant castle and my missus was there. And the guy says, look, you want to stay here for a week? I says, no, I says, I need to get up the road, I've got unfinished business. Meaning, I've got your enemies. I'm going to fucking take them out. Is that because you knew you were going to get a heavy sentence? Aye, aye. And then I was just fucking nuts in it for you know what I mean. I had a lot of trouble with that and been done with a lot of shootings and all that and different things you know what I mean. Been on the land in Berlin and that for it. Unfortunately I got away with it, it was just the wee ones that was getting done with it. And a couple of robbery things came up, bit nothing came of them. So going up in that train journey with me, the missus and the boy, he was only two at the time. It was one of the saddest fucking journeys going up there because I knew I was next because eventually got me see when I went out the car of one, windy. My prints were there. So the goats for that and other things. So I got off at Motherwell again, made a couple of pals, took me back to his in Hamilton, gave me that, gave us a revolver with six dumb dumb bullets for maximum impact. And for five weeks I was running about the town and I was going to shoot guns. I was just going to first roll them and they were just shot them straight. But unfortunately that never happened. So five weeks after that, I hadn't saw the missus and the police were in a raid in Mamazos and this is May 91 and they were kidnapped. It was a drugs offence for Alan. But what they'd done is they finned me to bug the phone and I was on the phone to Sheila. She'd moved the Bishop Briggs into Mamazos to stay. I was still in Bishop Briggs and but she'd just moved in there to stay and I'd phoned and I said right I'll meet you. So we arranged to meet at the Po San Chinese restaurant. So I went down there first. It was a Tuesday night and I've got the gun in my pocket and all that. I'm sitting there and she came in and the first thing I said was to her and I said have you been folied? She went don't be silly. I went and I didn't need bother. Two minutes later a couple came walking in and sat at the next table. I went on the cover coppers. She went oh there you are starting all this paranoia again. You start this I'm going to leave. I went what the fuck did you expect me to do? I'm fucking on the run. I'm going to get about 20 fucking year. I just knew these two were coppers right? But there were six guys sitting there James right and they were going oh well done. You're driving license and all that. They were six coppers I know. But I must I must give you some praise to the police that night. Instead he's just lifting me. They left me there for three years. So I went like that. I got the back door. I got the front door. I said I know they're out there. I just knew. So they left us for three years. I got told Mick Healy was coming in. I just fucking started drinking free course dinner the last supper I mean. And at 11 o'clock you'd see all these people coming in for takeaways at this Po San and Gennw for a Tuesday night. It was busy. But it was all the it was called the Scottish Crime Squad then. It's a serious crime squad now. But the Scottish Crime Squad they were made up with police officers for Aberdeen and Dean and all that. It was all them coming in to have a look. So they made a move and the sales were like I look all of these guys in that coming into this restaurant and I've turned around some fucking 15 people are rushing in. They've put my one in my pocket to get the gun. I didn't even know who they were. See the couple, the lovely couple I called them. They too were the first guns that jumped right to Opies. You know what I mean? And the six guys they've ran here. They've got her doing. They've got me. The other people came in and I must have moved 20 of them. They had me up in the air and I'm going blue. I'm going for fuck's sake. This isn't the name for this. He's got a gun. He's got a gun. I think we don't have to do bullets. And I'm going blue. The wee Chinese guy thing me, if it wasn't so serious it would be laughable but it is now. He can run there on the way like that while I'm up there and he's going who's paying this bill? And this is the Scottish Crime Squad. The kind of relax my grip nudges the way like that. So it was one of the momentous moments in my acronymal career and one of the saddest. Me put the circular, the Scottish Crime Squad in the thing me, the saddest, getting two Korean handcuffs.