 Welcome to what the up is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean code pinks weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region in partnership with friends of Latin America Massachusetts peace action and task force on the Americas We broadcast every Wednesday at 4 30 p.m. Pacific 7 30 p.m. Eastern on code pink YouTube live Tonight is a special edition of our program and we are broadcasting live from Managua, Nicaragua today's episode is Nicaragua Viva a post inaugural conversation Tonight, I am joined in conversation with journalist Camilla Estalante of Kassachu news and Fiorella, Mallorca and Jonathan Mallorca of the convo couch all of whom attended the inauguration of President Daniel Ortega and Vice President Rosario Murillo on January 10 We will discuss events leading up to the reelection of the Nicaraguan president and vice president and what the continuation of their administration means for the hemisphere of the Americas Welcome everybody. This is so fun to have all of all of you here in one place in one city on this Really incredible week that we have witnessed So why don't we let me just introduce to our audience? I think you probably know everybody But sitting with me here is Camilla Estalante of Kassachu news and joining us from a couple miles away here in Managua Is Fiorella Mallorca and Jonathan Mallorca who many of you know from the convo couch Thanks for having us. Hi everyone Hi, thank you Perry for having us Well, thank you. I'm really glad everybody had some time this evening. So for our audience We all of us were part of an international delegation That accompanied or was invited to attend President Ortega's and vice president Murillo's inauguration on Monday evening January 10 and we were also all four of us and many others from North America We were also all here in November for the presidential elections. So let's talk a little bit about What happened? The seventh the administration was reelected. What's happened between November 7 and today? because it's a pretty monumental series of events for central america specifically and latin america and the caribbean as a whole So whoever wants to jump in please Well, I'll begin we saw on election day. We heard the The official results late at night or in the early morning hours from the consejo supremo the CSE electoral authority Told us that Danielle Ortega had one re-election overwhelmingly with something like 75 percent of the vote and You know, the population voted overwhelmingly in terms of people of his own age That is older adults and youth alike. And so You know right away beginning the next morning We saw the united states and others in the exterior try to de legitimize these results And it seems to me that both on that day or you know the day following the elections that week Until now that all of those different calls to try to de legitimize The result and these legit and these elections in general have just fallen on deaf ears They don't resonate The way in which this used to resonate we've been seeing, you know attack from Mostly the united states also the eu and canada against the san anista government since before the 2018 violence and terrorism which took place here, which was backed and financed by the united states And at that time we saw a lot of people You know spreading disinformation about what's going on here We heard the claims that the protests They called them protests rather than violence rather than attacks on sandinistas rather than terrorism All of what was going on in the streets. The violence was being carried out by students by young people By they would even say ex-sandinistas And working class people in general campesinos indigenous people and what we've come to learn since then You know in our different travels here myself You know in in the summer as well as during the elections and now is that actually, you know, those Those different groups weren't represented and a lot of the the tranques The roadblocks in the different Areas where there were You know violent mobs Kind of extremist groups where around universities that is true, but they weren't it wasn't carried out by students it was carried out largely by Young people who were armed oftentimes who were drugged by the opposition just as we've seen in Venezuela And this information is coming to light with more people reporting on the reality here in Nicaragua And I think people are beginning to understand Uh, you know the reality and that means that you know these sanctions and these different acts of aggression and threats Against the nicaraguan government have just had absolutely no effect So when the election or the inauguration took place This week we again saw the announcement of more sanctions against supposedly individuals Of the nicaraguan government, which are really just sanctions against nicaragua in general and often the nicaraguan people But I think there's more and more that indicates that it's not going to have any effect Nicaragua has many ways of being able to pursue stronger trade relations and cooperation and infrastructural Uh Plans and projects with different countries and to continue on their path of development without interruption And that this isn't really going to and that you know the the sandinista project here will not be affected by By these sanctions and the way in which we've seen other countries severely affected before You know what I think is um Really significant and and johnny and fiorella, please jump in here Right after a day or two after the elections in november Nicaragua announced through the foreign minister that it would be Filing to leave the oas. That's a two-year process that it takes to leave, but they did start the the exit process And then within a week or so after that the government formally recognized Re-recognized as it had in the 80s the people's republic of china that was Unrecognized in the 90s through the 16 years of the neoliberal government and then taiwan was the recognized government That is all switched back now. And so what does that mean going forward? Yeah, so I personally think that is an extremely important point. I mean the recognition of the china one Um is going to open up a lot of economic opportunities for nicaragua We have seen similar actions in bolivia and how that's helped lift people out of poverty We've seen china itself lifted some people out of poverty And so when you have an investment and a close economic relationship in central america with a superpower Um and nicaragua who as as a country as a whole as camilla was mentioning They are largely self-sufficient. Um, they have managed to push back against these sanctions by focusing on developing Their own industries agriculture Etc. And so when when you have this now incoming relationship You have the possibilities and the likelihood pretty much confirmed by president daniel or tega um On monday of building new infrastructure from roads to canals who possibly even trains When he talked about the relationship with china It's all going back to the belt and road initiative which now syria has also Signed on to so you're seeing the alliances geopolitically build up. You're seeing the Influence of iran. You're seeing syria. You're seeing china Nicaragua rush up and this is not done To do anything really just because they want to be spiteful to the west This is done because they have to have alliances when they're being sanctioned a lot of people don't understand And they criticize saying well, why are you going to go from one empire to another superpower? Well, this is this is how you help countries This is how you you have some sort of relationship And I think it will benefit nicaragua, especially the canal that would be an inter oceanic canal That would connect the pacific and the atlantic and it will rival of course the Barely now use pama canal and a lot of people are so on board with that the creation of jobs the The just the ability for nicaragua to develop and nicaragua is developing rather quickly I mean the percentage of of wealth has increased you you can go to the nearby towns of In the Caribbean north of billy In the autonomous regions and see just how thankful people are for the support of their government In spite of the fact that they do retain their autonomy They really do thank our daniel or tegas government for helping them during these last years back-to-back Category four and five hurricanes where their their houses were and their roofs were effectively Rebuilds very quickly unlike what we see the us do to what if many consider a colony Puerto Rico Where they actually exploit through disaster capitalism The country every single time there there's something happens there So I really do think that's one of the reasons why the united states issued new Sanctions specifically on certain people and we had the chance to interview one of those people We've had the chance to talk to several key figures And of course we're all going to be releasing that footage But it is essential that it that we have come here to actually get the real story Because there's a lot of people talking a lot of propaganda But they've never stepped foot in this country let a little talk to a nicaragua. And so I think it's important to also point that out Yeah, you mentioned Let me just clarify for the audience and then i'm sorry johnny the the response to the hurricanes on the caribbean coast the atlantic coast and Nothing compared to what's happened in Puerto Rico The u.s. Government has used the disaster in Puerto Rico to privatize All what was public infrastructure and the privatized egg for example electrical system services fewer of the population then So that disaster capitalism thing. Okay. Go ahead johnny. I'm sorry to interrupt you Oh, you're you're good. Uh, I just want to say, you know, it's just like such a power move from nicaragua to make this move to get together with china And uh and recognize china's government Uh, this is really going to excel the country in a way. Like I already see some people I turned the tv on today and just to see what the the nicaraguan news is saying And I see there's this education program that's that's going and it's they're trying to get tech jobs going more You know, uh, I'm really seeing some more development already starting to come these uh, I mean education was already like free for All nicaraguan citizens, you know I've had my cab drivers say, you know For a nicaraguan who doesn't want to study this it's because they don't want to study because you can't study for free here And you can learn you can't you can find a career you can You know find out about that career and learn everything you need to uh, I want to Back up camille's point about the elections Uh, uh, yeah, it was that day that Propagandists from the mainstream media legacy media Uh were literally telling lies about the election while we were here on the ground Uh debunking that live stream on on the convo couch. You can watch these live streams where I was live Uh, just completely debunking what they were saying showing everybody the voting centers on camera Like this is not a lie. There's multiple parties here. There's multiple parties in the room The multiple parties on the ballots Today we got We got verification from the president of the uh of the csc Saying that they never received any official paper from any of those candidates that were in prison or they weren't candidates They were they wanted to be They were testing the waters Yeah, they weren't even pre candidates They were just people who said that they aspired to the presidency one day like you and I and everyone else Right, and so we got verification today that there was never any official, uh paperwork from the president and the uh, the magistrate of the election Council here, so we just keep learning more and more and it's been an awesome experience and Very humble to be here in the president's such a revolutionary country. It's uh, it's it's really, uh, it's really nice How the government is inside imperialists? Yeah, and most people are I wanted to add that, um, you know the the China and nicaragua they have they have said, you know, um through both the uh foreign ministry spokesperson of the people's republic of china and daniel or tega during his speech during the inauguration inauguration they have they have uh, you know confronted this claim head on that it's not that china and Nicaragua have a common enemy. That's not why they're coming together. It is literally because they have the same uh desires for their people and their people want, you know, a certain government and that is, you know, their ultimate goal in the short term is to and i'm saying in the short term because this is that this is their number one priority Is to completely eradicate and get rid of all poverty. They want to bring the they want to bring everyone out of poverty They want to immediately raise the uh conditions which people live in across all sectors across all backgrounds in all regions of the country And they want people to have a higher standard of living and access to education access to health Without restriction and without any sort of discrimination the sort of discrimination that we see in the global north and that we see anywhere You know disaster capitalism is manifested throughout latin america You know as as many people have said they would like to see the united states empire and its allies would like to see situations like we see in haiti and every other country of latin america and the cuban as well And um, it's unfortunate that we have to use haiti as an example but i would also use the examples of colombia And uh, honduras and many others where paramilitaries run entire regions of the country Um, and that, you know, there's a complete absence of the state Complete power vacuum and where illegal activity and transnational Cartels run everything. That's what they want in all countries and they want, uh, you know foreign capital to be able to go in and Launch whatever project they want extractivist exploitation of Of our resources and that's Exploitation of the resources that's not for the benefit of the nicaraguan people that would be for the benefit of the capitalist quarters So this is something, you know that uh, china and nicaragua are against they would like to use, you know, all of um, all of the resources of the state to, you know, put towards social investment and programs that will better the lives Of of regular people and that is going to largely be through just these Very basic but expansive And large infrastructural projects So for our audience just to clarify what the four of us witnessed monday night the 10th right after President ortega was sworn into office. He did announce and he read in front of the entire world that was punching Parts of the accord that were signed that nicaragua has signed with china for the belt and road initiative So that has been formally announced that was formally announced in front of all of us Monday Monday night and it's really Could assuming when I think all of us are pretty much assuming the announcement to for the canal is coming next And that will completely change the complexion of of the caravan And we'll just open that up to world trade and will no longer be solely The backyard quote unquote of the united states and we're looking at at What's coming in my opinion, and I think I think all of us would share the same What's coming is a multipolar multilateral hemisphere of the americas And we're seeing the beginning of the end of the minnows doctrine and of a us led unilateral hemisphere of the americas And this is to me really exciting for all of us that live in the americas this potential to raise The the quality of life for all americans and not just You know one demographic of capitalists Yeah, and I think that um, you know as we've seen time and time again for 20-something odd years going on 30 years the world rejects the us unilateral courses measures and blockade total blockade on cuba near total blockade and Most of the world hasn't wanted to participate in that right and left governments have rejected that And but what we've seen in recent years is though that there is solidarity from all sorts of Different governments from across europe and around the world. They actually have had great difficulty Getting their goods to cuba and a lot of different companies mostly, you know shipping companies are They're not in a position to risk Sending things to cuba even though according to their own national laws and jurisdictions in which they Live in and operate in or are based in and operate in there There's nothing that says that they shouldn't be able to deliver goods to cuba But there have been a lot of difficulties You know imposed on them by one single state and one single government and that's the united states so, you know, we just have to You know, I think that there's this understanding from all three governments that are uh, you know severely sanctioned in our region but more so cuba and And venezuela that You know a canal or you know more cooperation with our allied countries and governments overseas Could actually begin to really alleviate things for countries like cuba Which has had a difficult time getting their hands on medicine on supplies on all sorts of You know spare parts in order to fix things like in the in the case of Venezuela gas refineries and Other vehicles that are needed to just to you know transport things and run a society as any other country is able to So this will not only help the people of micaragua and central america potentially the whole the entire region Yeah, I wanted to touch back on also what president daniel or tega said on january 10th on his inauguration day He made it very clear that it was very telling to have no higher, you know executive type of diplomats and political officials Be sent by the united states however What better way to show or the the support the solidarity from the people of the united states because he has reiterated That he is not against the american people but against the us empire us imperialism And what better way to show the solidarity than to have Members delegations like the ones we were a part of Really be there and see and attend the inauguration and I think that's an important point to note because a lot of people Sometimes get caught up in you know It's we hate that these people hate the us etc It's like well, they don't hate the people of the us or the people of north america in particular You know canada the u.s. European union But it's it's these governments these empires that impose their international desires On to countries countries that want to retain their sovereignty and I think it was important that he pointed that out And it was very impactful to be there and hear that that fatality At least for me because it's not it's it's not something you hear every day And unfortunately, you know when you live in the united states And you operate like against the empire You know what's going on, but the moment you walk outside Of your bubble You see the the vast majority of people are propagandas including segments in in the us who call themselves leftists Constantly saying well, what about the political prisoners? What about this? What about that? They constantly Regurgitate that propaganda and then you turn on the tv here and they're actually talking about china They're talking they're educating people on what's happening. So you can see how important it is to have the media Here even independent media because over there. It's just so hard It's it's ingrained and everybody even through channels like youtube the algorithm supports the CIA backs propaganda Of these youtubers which we can call bread tube. There's been countless analysis done on that and it's just kind of crazy how You know how it it's frustrating, but at the same time um, it's it's it feels genuine in the growth of what's happened like there's a it's a lot more difficult for them to continue pushing this propaganda without pushback and um the more the more I see The more I've been here the more I can tell that this is their actions are becoming very Desperate and they know the united states knows it's on a downward. It's so scary now though, right? Is that desperation? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they totally know that that they're on a downward spiral I mean if you look at what what's happening in the united states the Biden administration The the approval rating so low even lower the vice president there It's it's like a joke right now. The united states is unfortunately a joke to a lot of the rest of the world and so what we're seeing is um a desperate attempt at these mirrors and so What what we what we have to really do is to continue Uh telling these people stories, which is why I liked like this last interview We did camilla and that last question that you know where we talked about This this woman's story and I think it's important to tell those stories because that honestly It's the way you really get people to understand Where somebody is coming from and what they've experienced We we heard from branda rocha who's the president of the supreme electoral council And she's someone who at the age of 15 lost her arm as ascending the youth member Which means even years before that she had been participating in some of the um resistance This was in 1982 and probably since the age of 13. She had been um she had been you know doing Some some mobilizing and protecting different sites Against the terrorism of the contrast the u.s. Fact and finance contrast And so in a terrorist attack eight of her comrades were killed and she was the only survivor And it's just an unbelievable story because here she is now one of the most important heads of of the very important institution Which is the you know highest electoral authority of nicaragua and you know, she has been resisting empire through hard times And and through the the best of times as well And she and many other people have have stood up Against that and so her story was was very touching for us I also wanted to say because I actually have to take off in just a moment But um, you know, I I think we hear these claims again and again in the mainstream u.s. Media, which is that Including of course the papers Like you said the legacy media which is that journalists are censors Censored that the media is censored here that people can't say certain things and that foreign independent media Or foreign outlets are not able to operate here that they're not able to come here and report I mean, this is exactly the case in the united states We just see vast censorship all the time and we're talking when we're talking about political prisoners political prisoners You know, the u.s. Has the highest number of political prisoners You know far higher than nicaragua and it has the largest prison population And the only outlets that you would ever find that actually have the capacity to stream on air on television Speak about that our press tv and rt In english and those two outlets have been specifically Specifically, uh, you know more so press tv have been completely censored from all the major social media Platforms, they're not freely available on any of the cable providers in the united states And you're not able to even see them on youtube or facebook or other platforms without vast censorship and these are the only You know television networks That are not little small independent alternative outlets like the ones we run These are the ones with the which which would potentially have the largest viewership and platforms And it's absolutely impossible to see them and they've also been censored in the uk and other places So we see the way in which you know The chinese uh state media and other state media hasn't been able to report In the united states how they're censored and taken off platforms And just one last thing i wanted to say Is that um, you know, we've heard from a lot of people here When asking them how we can be in solidarity with nicaragua against the sanctions and against imperialist aggression A lot of people have said that the first thing that you have to do to be able to be in solidarity and to be able to You know fight imperialist attacks is to be conscious Conscious of what what what the attacks are and what's going on And so, you know, this is our task as alternative media as You know organizers in solidarity with the san anista people the nicaraguan people the san anista revolution is bringing to light The reality here. It's very Wonderful that we have the opportunity to come here But we need more and more people to understand what the effects of sanctions really are The way in which you know the the complete the situation the story and the narrative has been manipulated by the media And that needs to be clear for for people to be able to to stand in solidarity And to be able to take this down and confront it in the future. So thank you so much Terry for having me and uh good to see you guys and i'll i'll see you guys a bit later Okay, thank you camilla. She's got another broadcast to go do I'm just uh busy busy lady miss camilla. She's uh in demand. Well, you two also You all have just been working since we got here a week ago. It's been very impressive on it. I'm so thankful for it You know, there's a couple things that you said fiorella that uh for me the uh the word that comes to mind most strongly about us foreign policy globally not just towards nicaragua is hypocrisy that's and I just It's so important to get to step out of the united states whether it's on a one week vacation Or you know, in my case, I've been I've been in mexico city as much of our audience knows for almost two years now and um hypocrisy I think is really it is the word that I just dislike a neon side for me the other thing you mentioned political prisoners and I think One huge Black eye that the united states has and somehow we just never connect the dots Is that horrible prison sitting in one thonomo cuba that is owned and operated by the united states And the whole world knows about That prison and the human rights violations that take place there and the renditioning how how people end up there Through renditioning and many other ways. We never talk about wantonoma. I should mention to the audience code pink does have A campaign to close wantonoma and you can find more about that at code pink dot org But that is just such a huge to point at any other country out for the us to point and here's where the hypocrisy comes into point At any other country on the planet And talk about political prisoners while that prison in wantonoma remains open and managed by the united state funded by our tax dollars is just Is is quite heinous Right, that's that's why it's it's so hard. It was so like alien to me to see So much support for a government because I haven't really seen that I'm not used to it. So when I see people really back their government and really genuinely Feel backed by their government It's it's just something that you don't see in the united states in the united states You you see people um who you know, either blindly jingoistically support a government that doesn't work for everybody Or completely not support their government and either fight it in various ways from the left to the right And it it says it it it's just it's it's so it's so weird to see people really love their government and really have Uh fight understand foreign policy. They understand nicarawans understand how their elections work Nicarawans understand the politics and in this country. They also understand international politics They can talk to you of how what the us has done on how sanctions, you know affect the working people of nicaragua not the politicians that they're supposed to that they say they're going to go after And that's not you can go into the united states. Most people don't know who the representatives are Most people don't really care because they feel like they're they know their elections are not there They know their government isn't representing them and so you have a lot of animosity But you also have a lot of infighting towards each other You have people distracted Upon and very fearful and that fear is the opposite of what I see here I see here an embrace for peace for for Justice for collective good and in the united states to see people very fearful of each other Whether or not they're in the right it's it's just it's that sentiment and so it's it's real I understand why so many people who are anti-imperialists have left the united states And the the issue I have with that is like I want to leave so bad, but then Who's left in the united states? So that's why you have because the work is there No, I mean the work is there inside the us borders and and so that's why all of us You know do our programs and do these trips to bring the news But the change needs to happen inside and everyone will everyone else outside will benefit for that with that um Johnny today when we were Driving back from a meeting you mentioned to me that you want to move here And I told you you're probably I I have been Uh here nicaragua. This is my third visit in less than 12 months And every time I come with us a younger us younger than me citizens, um I hear something very similar and so when you said that today, you know in the in the van that I want to come limp here Can you share with the audience? Why? Why you feel that way? What is it because you're under 30 and it's generally under Pretty much under your generation that shares that same sentiment every time i'm here with us citizens who are younger I hear I hear that And so can you share with us why you feel that way? What? Yeah, it's just like the spirit in the air is uh, you see it everywhere. It's very anti-imperialist very revolutionary I mean the graffiti is graffiti of revolution revolutionaries you have a graffiti a shake of art you have graffiti of of um the red and black everywhere, you know FSLN um and Apart from that, I mean the people we've been meeting they're very very left out here This is what I like to call the true left out here Because in the united states it's just so uh The difference is so stark of like how Not left they are They're very actually turns out to be conservative in the united states and stepping out of the united states into a country where You're seeing this very anti-imperialist, which is why my name my name. It's been johnny anti-imperialist for almost a year now On twitter on twitter and I finally come to the country. It's like super anti-imperialist like with danielle Saying fu to the united states with uh by by joining china. It's just it's so awesome It's it's just it's amazing and you know the people here are awesome the culture here is good I wish I had more to kill but um But uh, yeah, I mean it's it's been uh, it's been a great experience and uh, I really am thinking about it and The the weather's great. The other thing I wanted to talk about um was The big smear I see You know because we were talking about smears. So I kind of wanted to interject about the smears Uh, the biggest smear I see is that uh, people say that danielle is a dictator and That's like just the number one go-to one. That's what Jorge Ramos tweeted on inauguration day That's what someone commented on my picture. I just posted about uh, when I was just at the inauguration uh, and I'm like That's the one narrative. We got to completely just eliminate easily. So I can sell the audience right now You know, there's like three things that I've seen that say that that's not true, right one we witnessed the elections and uh, They were fair Free and transparent. I would have liked to see very calm Election day was very calm Calm peaceful That's what a lot of people were saying peaceful. I would have liked to have seen the tabulation process a little bit deeper But I can see that next time Uh, other than that the elections were efficient way a much better election system Than the the u.s. Is and we've spoken about this a lot on our show Uh, the other thing is uh, today we uh, no yesterday we talked to uh two radio Radio broadcasters broadcasters, yeah, and uh They uh, you know, they were talking about the government with you know, without any restrictions I mean they they were uh, they actually even criticized some certain aspects of the or take a government Which was interesting to see, you know, and these are non-government officials and you know, they're Able to do that. They they don't feel any Repression or oppression or you know restriction on being able to do that Uh, and then the other one I can't think of right now. I had it in my mind Well, what do you see to combat that narrative? Well, when we talk to people when we talk to people they literally list the reasons why they support the government And and you know, we've seen the housing in vismar martinez We've seen the we've seen the the aid in billway that they provided The schools that they're rebuilding and expanding the fact that they have health care I don't we don't even have health care for the people in the united states The fact that you can go to school free public tuition right now in the united states where banging people in power By the administration in particular to forgive a certain amount of student debt forgiveness that he went back on He said he was gonna do it. He's not gonna do it anymore Meanwhile, you can go to school free here in nicaragua Um also women that's the other issue that the whole us Like façade of being such a feminist advanced liberal country, you know, you have the march For women's march and you have all these things But truly what have women really really truly when you compare the united states in nicaragua There are more women in positions of power in nicaragua and not only that it's not just power based on Identity it is power based on economics that helps the ability of the right groups Exactly. And so the in the united states terry. I'm you can probably speak to this. There's more of a Um symbolic gesture placed on the feminist ideal You you can look at the me too movement how that excluded several people Versus in nicaragua when they're like look, we're gonna put the titles in in the name of women We're gonna have women in positions of power, but they're gonna make the same amount of money Women still in the united states don't earn the same amount of money as men and yet they're so advanced You know, we haven't I you say I can speak to this. Here's what here's one thing I would like to speak to is that We still have not passed the equal rights amendment in the united states And that was a project that started when I was your age actually and so we're younger maybe but um Yeah, we do not have equal pay for equal work in the united states, but we have other ways of of What's a socially defining? Feminism versus, you know economic definition of it and You're right. There are more there are more women in leadership with significant leadership roles the vice president Being probably the most visible But throughout the country Women are are are in, you know, very high levels of of leadership throughout the government and throughout throughout private business as well And so it's a very and young people the development of young people in this country is very very exciting and I I think, you know, that's probably one of the things you're responding to as well, Johnny that energy, you know, if you as someone under 30 sees all these people in the, you know in In different governmental departments and You know the the national government as well as municipal government and all the young people who have started, you know are getting educated and starting businesses. It's very It's very exciting what's happening here and it's something that is not probably What the united it's not being done under the united states definition of development Right private development And that's a big clash we're seeing throughout the hemisphere. I would argue throughout the world, particularly in the global south those nations that are are in a partnership with with with capital and the state to develop the country for everyone Versus privatizing everything which only allows people of certain incomes to participate in in in the in the society So it's a real clash and it's very very exciting To see this this shift that has in my opinion started on november 7th This shift in the hemisphere has been coming coming coming for several decades and it was just basically the whole world just saw the shift turn Turn on on november 7th And now of course, you know Um Pretty much formalized on january 10. So so what else should we talk about before before I let you go? Is there anything you want to share with the audience that that we Haven't discussed or that we should maybe talk a little bit more in detail I just want to shout out the uh, the viewers right now Uh, shout out to nicaragua footage. Mr. Boston Uh, let's see How you doing? You guys are chatting a lot. Let's see There was meeting critical thinking rick sterling. Justin. Oh, hey rick Put put put a put a fist in the chat If you're with nick arriving solidarity Throw throw a fist in the chat a little little fist emoji, but uh, I was just gonna say to wrap it up, you know, another thing is the um anti war movement or the anti imperialist movement here Is uh grew out of the need of the nicaragua people because of what their experience Was and what their conditions were and that's something we have to remember if your conditions are um Will propel you to act and and you have a very anti imperialist sector not just, you know um women in positions of of leadership of power But you have these anti imperialist women whereas in the united states you have kamala harris Who as vice president who has jailed more black and brown people? um Then most prosecutors in her lifetime and you have a lot of the the security national security state apparatus hiring Diversity, but it is to kill. It is to sainton. It is to to do um Just evil things it is not to do something good. And so that's the difference. It's it's light and day uh or night and day What I see and that's one of the things that also attracts me to nicaragua is just the the politics is is so representative of the people and so peaceful it's leading positively and I think A lot of us who are not from nicaragua have been accustomed to a very dark image of government a very negative image of government and and um That in the united states so much we could see it. Yeah, some of us who could see it, but it's uh, it's just it's just, you know It doesn't have to be that way. And I think uh being here so much and seeing how efficiently it can work Really put shifts a little bit of my perspective as to how a government can actually function. So Any closing comments johnny? Uh, yeah, I mean I agree completely. I mean just like the the programs the social programs they have here and then what what Well, we've seen on this trip and what uh, you know with the atc, you know, there are a lot of like associations and unions and uh Cooperatives, you know, there's so many of that and it's it's I feel like it's encouraged by the government to be involved In and organizations like that Uh, so I just you know, I just really want to shut out. I mean look like there's what there's like the taxi one that we Uh, you weren't there for that. That was me and libre the taxi one. There's a taxi union There's the eight the farmers association. There's the oh and the police here actually help people Oh, yeah, that's the other thing the police here People aren't afraid to see the police. What a concept Uh They actually do help people out here and there's a lot of women on the police. I've seen a lot a lot of women on the police And the military police and the and the military have very um large female population So I'm just very excited. I'm just very excited to see uh, what the future Yeah, oh, yeah, I really I don't know. We'll see we'll see I'm really excited for the future. Uh, I think it's uh It's a good idea to uh Keep an eye on nick or i would Can I just tell our audience johnny mentioned atc? And that's our friends at friend that those are our friends at friends of the atc and a shout out to erica tequeo and vows doctores and agardo garcia who Always are so embracing to us when we come here and show us and teach us and host us so much uh about The working people particularly the farmers that are that are sustaining the food sovereignty Um of nicaragua. So just a shout out to the three of you One thing I would just like to say in closing Because I do as I've said before in this program I really do believe the hemisphere is shifting from us Unilateralism to global multilateralism and that's really very possible On a very deep level because people in the region outside the united states So understand us foreign policy So much better than those of us living inside the us borders and they understand the policy because they've been victims of it whether it's been a hot war or economic war or Propaganda war they understand us foreign policy so clearly That they're able you know to push back against it at least you know intellectually it's taken um, it's taken the rise of china india russia iran other countries to allow These victims of foreign us foreign policy an alternative someplace where they can legitimately go and as of january And nicaragua has legitimately turned to china and joined the belt and road initiative So I think it's going to be very exciting for for so many people in the america is going forward Very positive and not and that's what the united states is afraid of Absolutely Thank you terry for having us. Oh, thank you so wonderful to have traveled with you twice now I hope again and um Just really great to get to know you better. I'm so thankful you had time to join us this evening too I really appreciate that. I know that you know, you guys have your own show So fiorella and jonathan, um their program is the convo couch and you want to tell our audience how to watch your program Where they can yeah, so you yeah, you can find us on youtube We're also on a platform called rockfin that doesn't censor because youtube is censoring and demonetizing videos that talk about empire Feralism or anything that they find a controversial rockfin r o k f i n dot com. We're also on twitter Um, um fiorella underscore i am jonathan mayorka on twitter. That's too long j o n a t h a n m as mary a y o r c a And uh, the convo couch is on twitter facebook is instagram. So feel free to check us out. Thanks And we should give a shout out to your partner craig Who wasn't able to come He wasn't able to come but he was here in spirit in spirit and uh, we'll see him when we get back and runa Go get our regular schedule going. So uh, yes And also for our audience, um our other guest was uh, canela espalante from casacho news and uh, she broadcasts from bolivia so So we've had a great Great conversation this evening. So glad you could join us. I want to remind our audience You've been watching what the f is going on in latin america and the caribbean code pinks weekly youtube program. We generally Broadcast on wednesday night 7 30 p.m. Eastern for 30 p.m. Pacific You can also find us on apple podcast and spotify and also be sure to Catch code pink radio which broadcasts every thursday morning 11 a.m. Eastern on w ba i new york city and simul casting on w p f w out of Washington dc that as well as available on apple podcast and spotify too so Looking forward to the for the next trip with you too and the next conversation. So Thank you so much for joining us Again, we've been broadcasting live from managua nicaragua this evening